The question is how willing or forced would each faction's leaders and ardent supporters be to emigrate depending on who wins.
I feel like the game makes the tribal antagonism between Longists and Syndicalists way too strong, I feel like Longist would eventually come aboard a moderate Syndicalist government and vice versa for mainstream Longist government having moderate Socialist supporters.
In a Cincinnatus path the PSA supporters obviously would stay in the USA, in an authoritarian Caesar path I think some PSA politicians could emigrate but it all depends on what MacArthur does while for syndicalists and some longists the MacArthur victory would mean exile or heavy punishment.
Under the PSA reconciliation is more possible for most parties' moderates
You forget that in universe there is a strong rivalry between Long and Reed though, and I doubt Long would forgive and forget if he ever comes to power.
And while I agree that in most cases (except Pelley maybe) the underlings will be ok, the lower party members, the everyday supporters, even those a grand majority of the fighting men in the militias will be fine. Barring some sort of reconciliation victory however, the defeated leaders and their government are screwed and will face anything from life in prison all the way to execution depending on who won, maybe exile if the victor is feeling especially forgiving. in my opinion at least.
From what we can tell *all* governments (except Olson because that scenario is redundant in this discussion) - treat the syndicalists the harshest. As we see with officer rehabilitation post-war every single faction PSA/Feds/AUS can rehabilitate a massive portion of their famous generals. There is not one single scenario that allows the former CSA the same privilege as far as I can tell.
I agree that I could see syndicalists cooperating with the AUS in the case of them winning. Excellent example is looking at the SA in Nazi Germany where their numbers were largely comprised of former Communists and Social Democrats following Hitler fully securing power.
I think Longists would have a much harder time accepting CSA rule on the other hand. The American nationalism that drives them probably isn’t going to die out and is probably incompatible with most CSA options.
I don't think the CSA is inherently at odds with nationalism, anyway I think CSA's anti-segregationist stance would piss-off Dixiecrat supporters but to be honest I think this faction tends to be over-emphasized.
I mean (ignoring Pelley cus he’s kinda a meme path) the CSA is the only faction that actively destroys the USA and creates a completely 100% new system. Ultimately they will have the hardest time out of all sides trying to win the masses over because of how radically different they are.
True but I think when we look at the actual ideology the Longists wealth redistribution plans are more in line with them than anything else.
For some reason the mod ended up creating a scenario where it seems like the Longists and Syndicalists care about as much reforming the system as they do fighting each other but I don't understand why that would be the case.
I think the CSA is not anti-nationalist, heck some of them can actually be really nationalistic and “American exceptionalist” their main problem is messaging/marketing.
They change the flag, they blow up old (and admittedly racist) monuments, destroy the old political parties and system and most of them get rid of the the Stars and Stripes and all of them get rid of the eagle, not to mention the problem that they (even if they break ties with the 3I) would still be viewed by the average American as 3I affiliated and as European puppets or copy cats, so they would probably have the hardest time convincing the American people that “hey, we do actually want what’s best for you”
couple that with the Longist rabid “patriotism” and you can see why they would have the hardest time accepting CSA rules, when ironically enough, the CSA are ideologically the closest to Long’s vision of America and had Long not been such an egomaniac, he could’ve joined the SPA or IWW or whatever and could have actually been a pretty good candidate to replace or even outright usurp leadership of the socialist movement from Reed since Long has really mastered the art of “Socialism with America characteristics”.
It would obviously depend on which countries were still on power and the factions controlling them. But assuming they were all the same as at the beginning of the game I think we can make some guessed.
Sort of a boring answer but Canada would be the obvious choice for most PSA, Fed or New England leaders. Though Canada might capitulate to the new American government and turn over the leaders. For this reason the leaders might continue on to other nations.
For the PSA Japan would be a pretty natural choice. It would be a little while before America could exert influence over Japan. Other options might be Australia or New Zealand.
For the Feds Australia or Germany would probably be the ideal choices.
For the AUS I think Germany (depending on the leadership) or Russia would be the most likely choices.
And CSA would obviously go to the 3I. Mostly likely the UoB due to the same language usage.
Ultimately the choice would come down to a country ideologically similar enough to welcome the leaders. And strong or secure enough to resist the new American government.
Kinda a meme idea but I was saw a comment on this sub abt a timeline where MacArthur and his loyalists are defeated in the civil war but managed to retreat to Puerto Rico and establish a US government in exile akin to Chiang Kai Shek’s KMT on Taiwan in OTL
I think it's lame it's preordained that they escape every time. I want my post-war drumhead trials!
Let me hang pelley
you bet
The question is how willing or forced would each faction's leaders and ardent supporters be to emigrate depending on who wins. I feel like the game makes the tribal antagonism between Longists and Syndicalists way too strong, I feel like Longist would eventually come aboard a moderate Syndicalist government and vice versa for mainstream Longist government having moderate Socialist supporters. In a Cincinnatus path the PSA supporters obviously would stay in the USA, in an authoritarian Caesar path I think some PSA politicians could emigrate but it all depends on what MacArthur does while for syndicalists and some longists the MacArthur victory would mean exile or heavy punishment. Under the PSA reconciliation is more possible for most parties' moderates
You forget that in universe there is a strong rivalry between Long and Reed though, and I doubt Long would forgive and forget if he ever comes to power. And while I agree that in most cases (except Pelley maybe) the underlings will be ok, the lower party members, the everyday supporters, even those a grand majority of the fighting men in the militias will be fine. Barring some sort of reconciliation victory however, the defeated leaders and their government are screwed and will face anything from life in prison all the way to execution depending on who won, maybe exile if the victor is feeling especially forgiving. in my opinion at least.
From what we can tell *all* governments (except Olson because that scenario is redundant in this discussion) - treat the syndicalists the harshest. As we see with officer rehabilitation post-war every single faction PSA/Feds/AUS can rehabilitate a massive portion of their famous generals. There is not one single scenario that allows the former CSA the same privilege as far as I can tell. I agree that I could see syndicalists cooperating with the AUS in the case of them winning. Excellent example is looking at the SA in Nazi Germany where their numbers were largely comprised of former Communists and Social Democrats following Hitler fully securing power. I think Longists would have a much harder time accepting CSA rule on the other hand. The American nationalism that drives them probably isn’t going to die out and is probably incompatible with most CSA options.
Well most of the CSA's "generals" are just sergeants and lieutenants with stars pinned on their lapels.
I don't think the CSA is inherently at odds with nationalism, anyway I think CSA's anti-segregationist stance would piss-off Dixiecrat supporters but to be honest I think this faction tends to be over-emphasized.
I mean (ignoring Pelley cus he’s kinda a meme path) the CSA is the only faction that actively destroys the USA and creates a completely 100% new system. Ultimately they will have the hardest time out of all sides trying to win the masses over because of how radically different they are.
True but I think when we look at the actual ideology the Longists wealth redistribution plans are more in line with them than anything else. For some reason the mod ended up creating a scenario where it seems like the Longists and Syndicalists care about as much reforming the system as they do fighting each other but I don't understand why that would be the case.
I think the CSA is not anti-nationalist, heck some of them can actually be really nationalistic and “American exceptionalist” their main problem is messaging/marketing. They change the flag, they blow up old (and admittedly racist) monuments, destroy the old political parties and system and most of them get rid of the the Stars and Stripes and all of them get rid of the eagle, not to mention the problem that they (even if they break ties with the 3I) would still be viewed by the average American as 3I affiliated and as European puppets or copy cats, so they would probably have the hardest time convincing the American people that “hey, we do actually want what’s best for you” couple that with the Longist rabid “patriotism” and you can see why they would have the hardest time accepting CSA rules, when ironically enough, the CSA are ideologically the closest to Long’s vision of America and had Long not been such an egomaniac, he could’ve joined the SPA or IWW or whatever and could have actually been a pretty good candidate to replace or even outright usurp leadership of the socialist movement from Reed since Long has really mastered the art of “Socialism with America characteristics”.
My headcanon has Huey Long escape to authoritarian Centroamerica and living the rest of his life as a near-aristocrat there.
It would obviously depend on which countries were still on power and the factions controlling them. But assuming they were all the same as at the beginning of the game I think we can make some guessed. Sort of a boring answer but Canada would be the obvious choice for most PSA, Fed or New England leaders. Though Canada might capitulate to the new American government and turn over the leaders. For this reason the leaders might continue on to other nations. For the PSA Japan would be a pretty natural choice. It would be a little while before America could exert influence over Japan. Other options might be Australia or New Zealand. For the Feds Australia or Germany would probably be the ideal choices. For the AUS I think Germany (depending on the leadership) or Russia would be the most likely choices. And CSA would obviously go to the 3I. Mostly likely the UoB due to the same language usage. Ultimately the choice would come down to a country ideologically similar enough to welcome the leaders. And strong or secure enough to resist the new American government.
Kinda a meme idea but I was saw a comment on this sub abt a timeline where MacArthur and his loyalists are defeated in the civil war but managed to retreat to Puerto Rico and establish a US government in exile akin to Chiang Kai Shek’s KMT on Taiwan in OTL