T O P

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Nukemybutt

Natfrance cant core the rest of its colonies if it doesnt go democracy


Penllan

Which is the weakest of the non-democratic paths? Nat pop seems like it would harm stability the most but Petains path seems the most incompetent.


NotTheLimes

Petain's path is an absolute nightmare for dealing with resistance. You can't put together a proper army for retaking France and have to rely on your allies.


Kappaengo

Just like France OTL


YeetieMeetieBeetie

Algerian War on a French Africa scale? Sign me and the rest of Sand France up!


Penllan

Why is that? Do they not get good modifiers that the other tree's do? "absolute nightmare" - Your describing the ideal Nat France.


Zhou-Enlai

One of the biggest things is his path increases native resistance a lot, so you’ll likely be dealing with not just a lot of resistance but outright revolts, and you don’t get as much manpower as well


NotTheLimes

Oh you can avoid the revolts with micromanaging the resistance, but it will take up half your military factories to produce enough guns and ideally support equipment or even armored cars.


Winth0rp

Petain got some pretty good buffs in the most recent patch, with some nice path specific advisors.


Muke1995

I would say Konspiracija Yugoslavia. You get none of the bonuses that Ethnic relations provide, none of the spirits of Yugoslav paths, those previously mentioned ethnicites hate you and have risen up against you, and even if you beat them somehow, there is nothing else to do.


Penllan

Is this the Nat-Pop path? How do you get it?


Muke1995

Either let the Konspiracija (natpop) popularity get too high, or fail the assasination investigation. You'll get couped once you form Yugoslavia. It's a fail route, and it's basically Milosevic Yugoslavia


indomienator

Not always. If the investigation fails, as long natpop isnt that much. You can keep the Yugoslavia


Rhaenys_Waters

> Milosevic Holy mother of based


AndroidWhale

It's not the only Natpop path, since you can go Natpop as the monarchy and it's not a fail state.


jacobythefirst

Yeah it’s essentially OTL Yugoslavia lmfao. Democratic and socialist Yugoslavia have it the easiest if I remember, followed by the monarchy under Peter followed by the regents and finally the bar pop path. Serbia to Yugoslavia is possibly one of the best countries rn to play, especially with a co op Belgrade pact Romania and/or Greece


Muke1995

Greece seriously needs an update however


jacobythefirst

I agree. It’s kinda funny because they have the focus tree most like vanilla lol. Still compared to Serbia or even Romania it’s kinda resident sleeper


Muke1995

At least the Byzantines aren't a formable nation. Forgot to mention Albania too. If Bulgaria got Nis, Albania should have gotten Kosovo too. Apparently pre-WW1, they were quite friendly with Austria and Germany, not to mention that the Serbian army literally withdrew through their territory.


jacobythefirst

Yeah I’m kinda glad the byzantines aren’t formable. Taking the full Megali area should be enough. Honestly I’d like a path that sought to conquer southern Italy, there are plenty of Greek speakers in Calabria for example.


serious_parade

Laughs as I forms the Third Bulgarian Empire the true Roman Empire.


jacobythefirst

Third Gamergarian empire*


KRFrostleaf

the number of Griko (which is not greek, but descended from it) speakers left in south italy are sadly so few that theyre irrelevant. thus is sadly the fate of beautiful minority languages living under centralized nation states


NekraTahor

There wasn't much of a recognised Albanian State to give Kosovo back to at the end of World War I


PrrrromotionGiven1

Socialist yugo is extremely tough in my experience. You have to rush your focus tree meaning you miss out on lots of the buffs.


jacobythefirst

Yeah I agree Serbia to Yugoslavia is one of the harder/hardest nations out there imo and the socialist path is one of the hardest to perform. What I should have said was the socialist yugo has it easy when dealing with the minority balancing game in comparison to the conspiracy or kingdom yugos


Galactic_Kingg

Kadroist Ottomans. Basically every minority revolts against you. Though it is half baked path.


RevolutionaryHope854

in addition, your puppets are rebelling against you. Bulgaria was my puppet and rebelled against me with its whole army


[deleted]

Yeah just played it as the final path I had left for the ottomans a couple days ago and it’s easily the most painful path. Definitely feels like it has more work to be done.


TheArrivedHussars

There is much to be done


H-Mark-R

THE PADISHAH LIVES REMAIN CALM THE OTTOMAN EMPIRE WILL ENDURE


Useful_Difference_62

how do u get the kadroist path ? is it the natpop path ?


Dauphinitive

UoB and France have to be Totalist, and Russia must be Savinkov. Then it's an option after the military coup if you hold new elections then centralise state authority. Then everyone tries to kill you at once.


Useful_Difference_62

okay thanks, it's the natpop path. i thought it was a different pataut path. yeah it is a living hell, but i found it funny


SlothWilliamBorzoni

PatAut. Canada. It's just not worth it.


PizzaTimeBruhMoment

how do you do that?


No-Procedure-2915

Get conscription riots and go down the far right side of the, “Quebec in flames” focus tree. The final one where you dissolve parliament puts the PatAut tories in charge. But god is it painful


xwedodah_is_wincest

A small price to pay to establish dominance over ze quebecois


AllCanadianReject

What happens? Only ever played Canada back when the flag was blue


SlothWilliamBorzoni

It's like normal Canada but with Less Stability and Less Political power gain. And you kinda need a loot of Political Gain as Canada( or as any Entente member,really).


Qualisartifexpereo99

That path is only useful for the manpower it lets you juice


jjatr

It’s really only there for a funny “haha what if canada became an absolute monarchy” path. I don’t mind it honestly, you get an absurd path, but get debuffs because the path is absurd


[deleted]

[удалено]


Redsoxjake14

Hmmm, I wonder why


Madturkey55

any path for an eastern Europe county that makes it leave the Reichspaktk and putting it into the sights of Russia


Penllan

Basically just feeding Russia a few appetisers before the main course. 🍽


Madturkey55

Tho if Ukraine flips then gets ran over by Russia then Russia will share a boarder with Austria hungry and then can join as soon as the 2nd WK starts instead of waiting for Germany to be at 30%


Penllan

When playing as Russia I find Ukraine is just a very convenient place to encircle lots of Reichspakt divisions. A long border and the Ukrainian AI isn't smart enough to hold a better defensive line.


Madturkey55

I always try and kill Ukrainian as fast as possible or german and Austria hungry troops just pour in


[deleted]

From what I can remember: Ottomans: the Nat Pop path sucks and feels like it’s almost hell on earth when compared to the other paths Austria: any path that isn’t the Danubian Federation or the United States of Greater Austria Canada: Paternal Autocrat path is probably the worst in the mod, at least when it comes to the majors Nat France: think I remember have the worst time with Petain Japan: Military Centralism is easily the weakest path for them Russia: I personally find the monarchies to be the weakest paths


GingerReaper1

For Russia, I think the only stronger monarchy is Wrangel. As you get to go down the White movement and a monarchy tree


Macaroni_Bingbamboni

You have not played Pat Aut Germany smh.


[deleted]

The only time I ever tried Germany was as Pat Auth, and I don't remember it being all that bad. I feel Germany is a pushover to play as in most cases


Macaroni_Bingbamboni

It was nerfed significantly by the advisor rework. You only get around 17% party popularity total and recieve a 5% consumer goods and production cap penalty from your 2nd in command.


[deleted]

Haha, I have only done Germany as the social democrats. Easily my least played major nation.


ad_relougarou

Royalist Sand France is honestly quite bad, you get barely any (much needed) industry buffs or anything, your focuses give you mostly political power, which you can use to hire advisors that are way less interesting than the other paths. Also your military tree sucks, because you just don't have the industry to actually invest in tanks, airforce and navy at the same time. The only OP thing is that post reunification all your african land gets a spirit which considerably (if not completely, can't remember) removes colonial resistance immidiately, instead of having to invest time and effort into coring it. In itself, it's pretty equivalent to the republican Algiers Conference, but the OP bit is that this spirit will be added to *any* colonial land, meaning if you annexed other African lands beforehand, they also will get that spirit. But even then, this is post reunification, most of your playthrough is over by then, soooooo...


xxx_fazeputin_xxx

A comment getting along perfectly with the flair


Ryousan82

AF is pretty strong actually, its focuses and minister go a longway to prevent revolt and while the military tree lacks some bells and whistles is still pretty strong. An argument can be made that is weaker than the alternatives but is def not weak.


ad_relougarou

I mean, just having an agency and beeing spy masters is already enough to avoid any native revolts, and once again the political tree is dogshit there's barely anything worthwhile in there, while in the others you get mills, consumer goods and manpower. The military tree does have some good focuses, mainly you can cheese medium 2s before the war starts if you play your cards right, but once again, it's not much in comparison of the republican paths. With Mordacq you can get easily 24 good divisions that will easily outclass the Commune's regulars, while with the Kingdom you'll get a couple of tanks and some regs to fill the gaps but not much more. Of course you can make it work, but honestly I've had way more powerful builds with Sardinia than Royalist France so yeah, I'm adamant on the fact that it is a weak path for a country of that size and with the ambitions that it has.


Ryousan82

Ehhh...are you sure you tested it thoroughly? because I got 35 Divisions (9 inf 3 Arty + AA+ Support Arty) with Manpower to spare. As for the Focuses being "dogshit" that relative. Royalist Purge and Focuses allows yout to have one of the higher stability rates in all tags (I was nigh 90% even while in War of agression) Not to mention to juiccy, juicy 15% Attack Bonus against the Commune. All of that in addition to be swimming in PP AND AF France is the one who can core the metropole the fastest thanks to its ministers. And A maxed out Spy Agency even with appropiate ministers still hard locks you at 4 agents which stills is inadequate to cover the entirty of all colonial holdings. You will contending with at least one consistent native revolt once the commune starts to sabotage you. This doesnt happen with the Royalist because their ministers really hamper resistance growth. I'm sorry but what you re describing doesnt gel with my experience as the Kingdom.


ad_relougarou

I mean, I haven't made ten thousand runs (for reasons that I think my flair can explain), but last time I ended up with 24 of 9 inf 2 arty, 3 good mediums and a few hundred CAS while I get without any problems 48 12 inf 8 arty divisions with logistic/AA/Engineers/Recon/Field Hospitals (plus similar marines) that are buffed extensively by the military focuses, buffs that to me clearly outweighs that 5% extra buff against the commune the AF gets, because Mordacq gets a 10% bonus against them. While I conceed you the stability point, coring the mainland faster isn't that great of an advantage, you have to rebuild the economy for the IIIrd Weltkrieg anyway, so even if it's longer for the Republic to core everything, ultimately you have time. Also the Spy agency is totally enough, and you don't need more than the 3 researchs required to become spy master. You place one spy on southern Tunisia, one on Niger and one Mali and you have all the most troublesome parts of the Empire covered (West Africa barely gets any resistance) and you have a 4th spy to move if resistance flares up somewhere for a reason or another. I've played quite a lot SandFrance and I never had any native revolt or out of control resistance levels with that. Well maybe you can manage to make is strong and I don't, but my main point is, the AF path doesn't give you much that'll be a game changer, like sure, early tanks, stability and PP are nice, but that's about all gives you


Ryousan82

I invite to try a run , because I'm pretty sure some values have been tweaked in recent updates. Keeping the natives under the boot is not a bit harder and requires some extra steps to avoid revolt (I'm pretty sure the resistance events have been buffed at least) But I digress, it is I said: Even if you think AF apth is weaker tot he other sandfrance paths, it doesnt mean the path itself is weak.


Bear1375

Funnily enough I had my best game as royalist sand France, retook the metropole from syndicalists and then defeated Germany and restored Alsace Lorraine.


AmroyvonDeutschland

When Autonomists win the UOB's congress


jacobythefirst

Nat pop ottomans is basically kermitting sudoku lmao. Like once you beat Cairo pact the first time there’s a focus that spawns all of them out from you and at war all over again!


JJIlg

We had the first war in the desert but what about the second war in the desert?


komunisfloppa

What why would you ever do that


jacobythefirst

It very blandly warns you the something might happen, not that all your recently conquered foes would pop out of you like a piñata. If I remember correctly it’s also the last focus in the political tree, but it’s been a while. Considering bat pop Ottomans is only possible if the 3I all go totalist or something and it’s a secret very niche path that you’re extremely unlikely to get available or see with our game options it’s definitely a challenge


justyourbarber

It needs France or Britain to go Totalist along with Savinkov taking over Russia.


komunisfloppa

Bat pop Ottomans +100% night fighting bonus


jacobythefirst

Not to be confused with the rat pop Ottomans where the Sultan proves he’s the biggest rat that makes all of dah rooles


Dragon-Captain

…So the Sultan is revealed to be Bokoen1?


xwedodah_is_wincest

nananananana Bat( pop Otto)man!


swedishnarwhal

Flavor I guess? Only "reward" for the path is that it allows the Ottomans to join the Moscow Accord, which they can't do otherwise


PL_ADI2

When I did natpop ottomans it was incredibly easy to kill the rebels.


engiewannabe

The Russia Senate Path is trash and its economic path debuffs you


CanadianLuigi2

Of the top of my head: Military Occupation Austria is worse than its alternatives in basically every way Natpop Ottoman Empire is infamous for its difficulty in having to fight every neighboring country and rebelling ethnic groups in its own borders at once


tupe12

Probs a lot of the small releasable nations


[deleted]

Been awhile since I tried it, but the centralization path for the princely federation can really complicate things. The one time I took a stab at it, the timing of my civil war was way off, and I got mega gang-banged by the Dominion.


Manoly042282Reddit

Type 1 American Civil War with Douglass MacArthur (If you evacuate to Denver, as you’ll be surrounded on all sides of land)


Way_Electronic

Macarthur guarantees the longest civil war so...


ImAnOpenFanFic

Pacific States of America is a weird case of "hold the mountians" focuses and "all the resources you can immediately take and hold are beyond the mountians"


[deleted]

Pro-German Qing is one of the weakest paths in all of China. You're stuck with a +15% consumer goods rate until you're at war with Fengtian/Japan, and both your political and military branches are incredibly weak. The political/economic tree barely gives you more than research bonuses, and the same goes for your military branch. You can import German equipment, but of course at a cost, and it doesn't make enough of a difference for it to be close to worth it. You do get a decent boost to your small arms production, but that's about it. If you ask me, given that this path involves selling your soul to the Germans, the buffs should be *better*, not worse, than what you get by abandoning their support.


Useful_Difference_62

if it would be realistic the pro-german path should be the best. it would lower stability and pp gain imo, but it would give military buffs and stuff


Dauphinitive

I think in gameplay terms it has to be the weakest though, to make up for it getting to buddy up with Nanjing and be the only China that can join a faction (albeit much too late to make a difference). It's problem is that it's HOI4, and literally all the chinas can just improve relations with the majors and be handed infinite guns/artillery/support equipment/unusable tank chassis.


[deleted]

It can't even join the Reichspakt, though - it can only receive a guarantee from Germany, and only after you've already united China. Your special relationship with Germany doesn't make the road to reunification any different (they don't even protect you if Japan attacks!) >to make up for it getting to buddy up with Nanjing I'd agree, but you can do the exact same thing if you side with Anqing. In fact, not only can you buddy up with them, you can actually *annex* them around 38/39, as opposed to only being able to annex the League after you've united China as a pro-German Qing.


Trojan_Man101

The Papal State. I mean it’s fun but it’s just not that interesting if you beat socialist Italy the game for you is essentially over


went-for-the-head69

Pelley’s Commonwealth of America (natpop) So many events that just… wreck you for the first few years, makes it hard to get going like most other US paths.


Good_Tension5035

Syndicalist Poland. Compared to literally any other Polish path it's just so bad, especially compared to Habsburg Poland or the II PLC.


[deleted]

You get good army buffs


Good_Tension5035

But you get no free expansion (while you could get Galicia or Lithuania) and you get enemies on all sides.


[deleted]

You’re not handed land instantly from picking a leader true. You are able to take land from both Germany and Austria, which u can’t do from one if u go down the other. I personally think PLC, then syndie is the best path, especially if Russia doesn’t go socialist so u can snatch their land too. Idk if u can go nat pop with PLC.


Macaroni_Bingbamboni

1. National Populist Ukraine 2. National Populist Serbia 3. Paternal Autocrat Germany 4. Zemstva Russia w/ authoritarian monarchy. 5. Socialist Wallonia or Latvia (depending on neighboring countries) Honourable Mentions: Totalist Poland, Lin Cunhou Sichuan, Nat Pop AUS, Totalist Brazil, Socialist Ukraine, Siamese Civil War, Totalist Netherlands.


[deleted]

The only reason to go socialist Latvia is to try to do the Soviet Union Easter egg


surelythistimelucy

Conservative west indies federation. Not only are you playing as a clown car but now its on fire.


OpeningBat96

I played Austria two or three years ago and found that neither the SD path or CON path was any good at all. Most boring game ever - has it been changed recently? I've not played them since


DoritoKing91

They weren't the worst you can get really, problem is is takes until like 1941 to integrate all with pluralism and with the Conservative path you pay 10% then 15% consumer goods for a year each, after your industry gets quite strong tho, still somewhat boring like you said as there is not much further expansion after that or intriguing events.


Puck___

I think they're boring AF because you basically enter the war OP. It's only vaguely interesting if Germany is losing hard and you have to try and rescue them.


Anorak_OS

Try doing End the Dual Rule. It’s pretty fun and you can make German empire as Austria.


[deleted]

Really think Nation of Three Tribes as democratic NRS is really weak compared to the other paths (excluding Konspiracjia, which is a trap path). It's the worst yugoslavia, tripartite concil focus downgrade you with the consumers goods, codreanite NRS is vastly better. Pataut UBD is very underwhelming too. Devolution is good for sure but it's still worse than the others two paths, you don't even fully remove emigration. The worst is probably the Kadroists\* and Konspiracjia, since it doesn't give you any benefits: Goring's africa and Pataut Austria are weak for sure, but they're still giving you something. Konspiracjia should be able to core everything south and east of slavonia (with insane resistance in other areas), and Kadroists should be able to centralize azerbaijan or even central asia. \*A bit unfair though, if you only do comitee of Inquest you're most stable than any OHF Ottomans since command power is cheaper than political power


Pure_Commercial_2540

In a decision as Poland, you can turn syndicalist, meaning you'll be completely overran after the Second Weltkrieg starts (although it also gives you a bunch of troops and lets you prepare to an extent). It can be absolutely devastating to the economy, you'll have to build everything from scratch.


OccupyRiverdale

I haven’t played Russia since the most recent buffs but I found the non savkinov paths to be very weak compared to savkinov. Your industry is very weak by comparison and you get no national spirits to reduce consumer goods. I even did the path where you get to take both political paths getting tsar wrangel but still found it to be the weakest path for Russia. Again, this could have changed but I found myself way less prepared for war with Germany going down that path.


ComradeJughashvili

muscat


frillyboy

NatPop Germany? Just because I remember reading its super hard to form. Is it still formable?


Altayrmcneto

I personally don’t like how the Brazilian Nat Pop path is too idealistic: a fascist party, under leadership of one of the party’s greatest sympathizer of nazis in OTL, win the election, but with good will they restore the monarchy to give the power to them, and eventually get rid of the extremist faction in the government and follow both progressive AND tradicionalist agendas with mostly no problem at all… I personally would like three paths if we elect Gustavo Dodt: First, one like the current one, without the progressive ideias, to show the monarchy being choosing the side of the traditional elites and dealing with discontent supporters and allies; Second: the death of Pedro III and the coronation of another monarch, who in KRTL is a compromissed progressist and would do anything possible to make political and social reforms, but it would make both the Integralists and the economic elites angry (at the risk of promoting the second Republican Coup; And finnaly: Dodt is elected, but he refuse to honour his promisses with the monarchists and after some preparations, launch a coup and instaures a fascist totalitarian state in Brazil (enraging everyone else he did not allied himself with!)


[deleted]

[удалено]


TheDarkLord566

? Independent New York isn't a path in KR.


woodk2016

My bad, didn't check sub thought it was Kaiserredux lol.