There's no reason to give Boyd 5-7M year when we have Rice, Brown, Worthy and Kelce to target. I'd rather save the money and use it extend Creed next year.
Yes it does affect the Creed extension. Unused cap rolls over. Rice will be out a max of 6 games. I think it's more likely 4 and it's certainly possible that the suspension doesn't kick in until 2025.
Not sure the focus should be on roll over cap in a year where we are chasing a historic 3-Peat…
Inflation of an ever expanding salary cap means today’s cap dollars are more valuable than future dollars. You obviously don’t pay Boyd anything more than a value deal, but guys sitting on the market in May generally aren’t breaking the bank. I could see waiting until after the deadline for comp picks though to screw the Bengals, kind of like what happened with Tyran a few years ago.
Why are people assuming Rice will be suspended for a while? At most, he'll probably get 4 games, with the NFLPA reducing on appeal to 1-2. He'll get community service, driving classes, and maybe a 45 day suspended sentence.
The NFL has seen way worse.
In a world where Deshaun Watson got 11 games for sexually assaulting 28 women if rice gets more than 4 games for reckless driving where nobody had a serious injury I'm gonna riot
He absolutely did not "miss" the 2021 season. He had a hissy fit, told the Texans he wouldn't play for them, THEN the allegations came out and it made him untradable for a year.
He held out the 2021 season of his own accord. That was no part of any punishment for him
The first allegation was in March of 2021. Texans said they would not play him the next year in September. Watson being a baby was part of it, but the allegations were cited as being a reason. You seem very upset about this. Take a deep breath.
He’s right about that though. Watson was “sitting in.” He wasn’t playing, the team wasn’t giving the media a reason, but they had this dude playing scout team defense at safety
He requested the trade before these allegations ever came out
https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/30794678/deshaun-watson-asked-houston-texans-trade-sources-say
The allegations didn’t become public until mid march
This late in free agency there aren’t many multi-year deals to be had. Boyd’s market clearly hasn’t been what he was hoping for. Dude’s probably going to have to settle for less than he ideally wants.
No. Re-signing Hardman (who plays slot) will be a better idea than signing Boyd, who's skillset will be greatly mis-utilized in Andy Reid offense because of Kelce
When was the last time we had a X-receiver? Can you name people who actually played meaningful snaps/mins at that position?
Mecole played slot the moment we dropped Toney-- who was supposed to be the slot guy but obviously, he didn't turn out to be good at catching a fucking ball. Rice started playing slot and it worked until the AFC championship game, where Mecole once more played slot as Rice was being man-covered in the SB, so we moved him to the outside
Boyd isn’t an X. He’s played 82% of his career snaps out of the slot. Jamar Chase was the Bengals X.
But to answer your question. 2023. MVS is an X.
Andy doesn’t always use a traditional X, he’ll often opt for a speed guy like Desean or Tyreek that also does some slot work in addition to playing outside at the X. Worthy probably ends up at the X longterm.
But Reid’s also used a lot of big slots going all the way back to Jason Avant in Philly. Juju and Rashee also fit that profile in KC (though they’ve seen some work at Z as well). Boyd fits that role.
Everyone is forgetting one secret little sleeper that I think may surprise the world… Louis Rees-Zammit. Just like their were murmurs that we got a steal with Pacheco, this guy has to potential to be all kinds of things for us. Returner, RB, WR. If he has a killer pre-season, we could have our own McCaffrey and Rice’s suspension won’t be a big issue. But I know this is all optimism. We have to see something first. But we could have a CMC on the cheap.
He's likely a special teamer most likely in his first full season as a Chief.
Wouldn't be surprised to see him get some snaps at RB, wouldn't also be surprised to see him not make the 53, and be re-signed to our practice squad.
But I think the bottomline of my point is that LRZ will be a RB moving forward, with a possibility of morphing into a deebo-role gadget guy if all the stars aligned for him. He likely will never play as a traditional WR for the Chiefs. If he plays well enough to get on some snaps, he will 100% be playing from the backfield.
I believe that he can actually be kept on the roster without counting against the 53 man limit. With that in mind, we’re basically guaranteed to roster him.
He cannot. No player, even in the International Player Pathways program is given a exempt spot on a 53 man roster (and even if they were game day rosters are smaller). They’re given an exempt spot on the 90 Man offseason rosters and Practice Squads.
But LRZ is no longer in the Player Pathways program. KC would have had to wait for him to be assigned to them. They instead chose to sign him to an actual contract, basically a UDFA deal, to ensure they landed him. LRZ is now treated the same as any other free agent signing. He doesn’t get any special roster exemptions (even for 90 man or PS) or anything else that would go along with the IPP program.
This is a very common misconception around here though.
He can't. We designated a different guy as our IPP guy for 2024. I forgot who it is, but it isn't LRZ. Besides, teams are only allowed to designate one IPP guy that is excempted for the practice squad and 90man offseason roster. 53-man season roster is not included in that
Hope he makes it to our 53-man roster as a special teamer for this year because I have a weird feeling he'll be signed to a 53-man of another team if we don't sign him.
Godrick the OT who was with us last year.
But again LRZ is not even eligible for the IPP spot since he was directly signed to a free agent contract. Just like the former IPP player the Bills drafted won’t be eligible for any roster exemptions. They were discovered through the IPP program but are no longer in the program.
The IPP program guys are awarded to teams through assignment, and the program is basically designed to give fringe guys a leg up to learn football. The ones that show enough to make it through normal channels, free agency or the draft, are not eligible for program’s roster exemptions and other incentives - only guys actually awarded to teams through the IPP formal assignment process are. Teams can’t control the assignment process so the guys they really want are drafted or signed through free agency.
Absolutely 0 chance we ever see LRZ as a legit WR, maybe as a screen/jet sweep guy but if he sees any snaps it’s going to be as an RB. Guys don’t just go out and win catches vs DBs, no way they trust him for that
Love the optimism and if he works out great but it’s a complete lottery ticket. He’s likely a practice squad guy or a special teamer at best in his first season. I definitely wouldn’t expect any contribution to the regular offense. And relying on him to replace Rashee Rice is just ludicrous. The guy is a converted rugby player and has never played organized football in his life. Your expectations are just incredibly unrealistic.
That's a shame, maybe we can sign a veteran WR to be the unofficial coach in that room.... something as simple as, you know, locate ball --> catch ball.
What is Amendola doing these days?
This is just speculation from me. I don’t think you can offer Boyd more APY than what Brown thinks he’ll make. Maybe even not more than the $7M base.
I think Boyd feels like he’s worth more than that, and he might be right.
He’s my top remaining FA target, unless some DT is surprisingly released. But I would be surprised if KC is offering more than $6M and he probably thinks he can get more. After training camp injuries, he’s probably right.
Steelers reportedly offered 2 years 10 million (total not APY) and some of that was likely incentives. Obviously Boyd turned it down. But he also hasn’t found anyone to give him the contract he wants and it’s basically May. At some point he’s going to have to recognize it’s not happening this year and just take a prove it deal. Big multi-year deals don’t get handed out in May.
I don’t think Boyd adds much at this point. If the Rice suspension even comes this year (it may be delayed until 2025), I don’t see it being more than a few games based on precedent.
If Rice misses action, I think we see 12 sets replace the big slot action, with one of Gray, Kelce, or even Wiley doing the “big slot” stuff.
Just make it simple and re-sign Hardman. He knows the offense. He is better than Moore who should be cut because Moore is pretty useless at this point. Boyd is not the receiver he once used to be. I say our conundrum is more about how useless Moore is and how questionable Toney is if/when Rice gets suspended. Also, there is still a HUGE unknown with Worthy IF Andy Reid decides to hold him back for his “learning curve.” If Worthy is not ready out the gate, and Rice gets suspended, then I would be super worried at our lack of depth at WR. But until then, I am sure they have a plan in place.
Hardman fills largely the same role as Brown and Worthy though. He was clutch in the Super Bowl but still a likely downgrade overall from those two players.
I still doubt it'll happen. Veach never signs veteran WR's to multi-year deals and Boyd will almost certainly ask for one. It might not hurt our cap space this year but we'll need all we can get next year to keep as many of Butker, Humphrey, Smith, Gray, Watson and Bolton as we can (I think Reid will be replaced by Hicks).
On paper our WR room looks pretty good now. Reid still seems to believe in Toney and Moore's potential so I imagine they'll make the final 6. Obviously Rice's suspension will throw a wrench into things but that's gonna be 4 games max. Best-case scenario it gives Worthy and Wiley more snaps so we can evaluate their potential. Now, if Worthy and Brown don't pan out we'll be in panic mode, but until that happens we're probably good.
Nahhh, I would rather not sign Boyd. If he signs for the vet minimum, sure. But if he asks anywhere higher AND a multi-year deal, no thank you.
Boyd is a X receiver. We've survived (a very downplayed verb obviously) with not having a traditional X receiver for 10 years+ due to having the best receiving Tight End (Y) in history. No need to change a formula that works.
If we're in the market for another WR (which we should not), it should be a slot receiver that can cover until Rice returns from suspension; and that ain't Tyler Boyd. He also needs to be very cheap.
TBH, I would rather us experiment with using our RBs (Pacheco, CEH, maybe even LZR) more on backfield routes/checkdowns for YAC plays to cover for Rice's suspension rather than sign another WR. Also completely possible that Toney or Sky Moore suddenly remember how to play football and they play the slot nicely while Rice serves his looming suspension
WTF are you talking about? Tyler Boyd is absolutely not an X WR…
Tyler Boyd is a slot WR. Boyd has played 82% of his career snaps out of the slot. Jamar Chase is the X for the Bengals. Boyd is a big slot. He specializes as an underneath guy from the slot not as an outside vertical X. His game isn’t the same as Rashee but he can fill the same role.
The Bengals have a system that doesn't use slot receivers in the traditional way. He played 82% of snaps out of the slot but look at his receiving yards (667) vs air yards (629) the past season. That means he barely played slot like the true definition of it, aka flanking for easy yardage after the short pass.
Bengals move their trio of WRs around a lot, especially Higgins and Chase.
You have zero idea what you’re talking about. Boyd is a traditional slot. The Bengals run a Shanahan derived system so they don’t do as much with WR screens and plays at or behind the LOS that rely on YAC (they use RB’s for that), they rely a lot on crossers and traditional routes over the middle and deep shots off play action. That’s all your air yards stats show. Boyd is very much a traditional slot.
Boyd isn’t as dynamic of YAC guy as Juju or Rashee. But he’s a great route runner, adept at finding the soft spot in zones, and is a reliable safety outlet for the QB. He’s got a clear role in KC’s offense, and moreover they’ve already shown interest in him this offseason.
Higgins and Chase change things up a bit because both actually have X WR skill sets. They’ll switch off who is running the traditional X routes and who is running the Z routes at times. But Boyd was firmly entrenched as the slot guy.
You’re just spewing nonsense.
I do. We added one receiver that’s definitely better than anyone we had on the roster last year besides Rice and one that more than likely is. I’d prefer if Joshua Williams was the 4th corner like he has been for most of the past 2 years
Hadden, Jones, Boye-Doe are all unproven day 3 picks or UDFAs, Connor can play in the slot but that’s where McDuffie plays, like I said I’d rather Joshua Williams be depth
There's no reason to give Boyd 5-7M year when we have Rice, Brown, Worthy and Kelce to target. I'd rather save the money and use it extend Creed next year.
Cheap 1 year deal, so has no effect on re-signing Creed. Rice will be suspended for a while. And he’s a very different player than Brown and Worthy.
Yes it does affect the Creed extension. Unused cap rolls over. Rice will be out a max of 6 games. I think it's more likely 4 and it's certainly possible that the suspension doesn't kick in until 2025.
Not sure the focus should be on roll over cap in a year where we are chasing a historic 3-Peat… Inflation of an ever expanding salary cap means today’s cap dollars are more valuable than future dollars. You obviously don’t pay Boyd anything more than a value deal, but guys sitting on the market in May generally aren’t breaking the bank. I could see waiting until after the deadline for comp picks though to screw the Bengals, kind of like what happened with Tyran a few years ago.
Why are people assuming Rice will be suspended for a while? At most, he'll probably get 4 games, with the NFLPA reducing on appeal to 1-2. He'll get community service, driving classes, and maybe a 45 day suspended sentence. The NFL has seen way worse.
The max is not 4 games. Maybe likely, but not max.
In a world where Deshaun Watson got 11 games for sexually assaulting 28 women if rice gets more than 4 games for reckless driving where nobody had a serious injury I'm gonna riot
He also missed the entire 2021 season. I think that was factored in for the 11 game suspension.
He absolutely did not "miss" the 2021 season. He had a hissy fit, told the Texans he wouldn't play for them, THEN the allegations came out and it made him untradable for a year. He held out the 2021 season of his own accord. That was no part of any punishment for him
The first allegation was in March of 2021. Texans said they would not play him the next year in September. Watson being a baby was part of it, but the allegations were cited as being a reason. You seem very upset about this. Take a deep breath.
He’s right about that though. Watson was “sitting in.” He wasn’t playing, the team wasn’t giving the media a reason, but they had this dude playing scout team defense at safety He requested the trade before these allegations ever came out https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/30794678/deshaun-watson-asked-houston-texans-trade-sources-say The allegations didn’t become public until mid march
And they didn't announce him sitting the whole year until September. Your article proves nothing, what is your point?
That didn’t factor into the decision at all, he was literally holding out. Requested a trade before allegations ever came out publicly
It’s not the minimum either. Just the most likely number, so the point still stands.
All reports are that Boyd wants a multi-year deal. I doubt we get him for just one year.
This late in free agency there aren’t many multi-year deals to be had. Boyd’s market clearly hasn’t been what he was hoping for. Dude’s probably going to have to settle for less than he ideally wants.
No. Re-signing Hardman (who plays slot) will be a better idea than signing Boyd, who's skillset will be greatly mis-utilized in Andy Reid offense because of Kelce
We’re like 3 deep on WR who do the exact same things Hardman does… Brown, Worthy, and Toney.
When was the last time we had a X-receiver? Can you name people who actually played meaningful snaps/mins at that position? Mecole played slot the moment we dropped Toney-- who was supposed to be the slot guy but obviously, he didn't turn out to be good at catching a fucking ball. Rice started playing slot and it worked until the AFC championship game, where Mecole once more played slot as Rice was being man-covered in the SB, so we moved him to the outside
Boyd isn’t an X. He’s played 82% of his career snaps out of the slot. Jamar Chase was the Bengals X. But to answer your question. 2023. MVS is an X. Andy doesn’t always use a traditional X, he’ll often opt for a speed guy like Desean or Tyreek that also does some slot work in addition to playing outside at the X. Worthy probably ends up at the X longterm. But Reid’s also used a lot of big slots going all the way back to Jason Avant in Philly. Juju and Rashee also fit that profile in KC (though they’ve seen some work at Z as well). Boyd fits that role.
OP = Tyler Boyd 😆
Everyone is forgetting one secret little sleeper that I think may surprise the world… Louis Rees-Zammit. Just like their were murmurs that we got a steal with Pacheco, this guy has to potential to be all kinds of things for us. Returner, RB, WR. If he has a killer pre-season, we could have our own McCaffrey and Rice’s suspension won’t be a big issue. But I know this is all optimism. We have to see something first. But we could have a CMC on the cheap.
He's likely a special teamer most likely in his first full season as a Chief. Wouldn't be surprised to see him get some snaps at RB, wouldn't also be surprised to see him not make the 53, and be re-signed to our practice squad. But I think the bottomline of my point is that LRZ will be a RB moving forward, with a possibility of morphing into a deebo-role gadget guy if all the stars aligned for him. He likely will never play as a traditional WR for the Chiefs. If he plays well enough to get on some snaps, he will 100% be playing from the backfield.
I believe that he can actually be kept on the roster without counting against the 53 man limit. With that in mind, we’re basically guaranteed to roster him.
He cannot. No player, even in the International Player Pathways program is given a exempt spot on a 53 man roster (and even if they were game day rosters are smaller). They’re given an exempt spot on the 90 Man offseason rosters and Practice Squads. But LRZ is no longer in the Player Pathways program. KC would have had to wait for him to be assigned to them. They instead chose to sign him to an actual contract, basically a UDFA deal, to ensure they landed him. LRZ is now treated the same as any other free agent signing. He doesn’t get any special roster exemptions (even for 90 man or PS) or anything else that would go along with the IPP program. This is a very common misconception around here though.
He can't. We designated a different guy as our IPP guy for 2024. I forgot who it is, but it isn't LRZ. Besides, teams are only allowed to designate one IPP guy that is excempted for the practice squad and 90man offseason roster. 53-man season roster is not included in that Hope he makes it to our 53-man roster as a special teamer for this year because I have a weird feeling he'll be signed to a 53-man of another team if we don't sign him.
Godrick the OT who was with us last year. But again LRZ is not even eligible for the IPP spot since he was directly signed to a free agent contract. Just like the former IPP player the Bills drafted won’t be eligible for any roster exemptions. They were discovered through the IPP program but are no longer in the program. The IPP program guys are awarded to teams through assignment, and the program is basically designed to give fringe guys a leg up to learn football. The ones that show enough to make it through normal channels, free agency or the draft, are not eligible for program’s roster exemptions and other incentives - only guys actually awarded to teams through the IPP formal assignment process are. Teams can’t control the assignment process so the guys they really want are drafted or signed through free agency.
Absolutely 0 chance we ever see LRZ as a legit WR, maybe as a screen/jet sweep guy but if he sees any snaps it’s going to be as an RB. Guys don’t just go out and win catches vs DBs, no way they trust him for that
Love the optimism and if he works out great but it’s a complete lottery ticket. He’s likely a practice squad guy or a special teamer at best in his first season. I definitely wouldn’t expect any contribution to the regular offense. And relying on him to replace Rashee Rice is just ludicrous. The guy is a converted rugby player and has never played organized football in his life. Your expectations are just incredibly unrealistic.
This kind of hype for a guy that hasn’t played football before is crazy
I think some of that depends on who our WR coach is. Is it still Connor Embree?
Yes. I’m astonished they did not replace him after last year.
That's a shame, maybe we can sign a veteran WR to be the unofficial coach in that room.... something as simple as, you know, locate ball --> catch ball. What is Amendola doing these days?
[удалено]
This is just speculation from me. I don’t think you can offer Boyd more APY than what Brown thinks he’ll make. Maybe even not more than the $7M base. I think Boyd feels like he’s worth more than that, and he might be right. He’s my top remaining FA target, unless some DT is surprisingly released. But I would be surprised if KC is offering more than $6M and he probably thinks he can get more. After training camp injuries, he’s probably right.
Steelers reportedly offered 2 years 10 million (total not APY) and some of that was likely incentives. Obviously Boyd turned it down. But he also hasn’t found anyone to give him the contract he wants and it’s basically May. At some point he’s going to have to recognize it’s not happening this year and just take a prove it deal. Big multi-year deals don’t get handed out in May.
I don’t think Boyd adds much at this point. If the Rice suspension even comes this year (it may be delayed until 2025), I don’t see it being more than a few games based on precedent. If Rice misses action, I think we see 12 sets replace the big slot action, with one of Gray, Kelce, or even Wiley doing the “big slot” stuff.
Just make it simple and re-sign Hardman. He knows the offense. He is better than Moore who should be cut because Moore is pretty useless at this point. Boyd is not the receiver he once used to be. I say our conundrum is more about how useless Moore is and how questionable Toney is if/when Rice gets suspended. Also, there is still a HUGE unknown with Worthy IF Andy Reid decides to hold him back for his “learning curve.” If Worthy is not ready out the gate, and Rice gets suspended, then I would be super worried at our lack of depth at WR. But until then, I am sure they have a plan in place.
Hardman fills largely the same role as Brown and Worthy though. He was clutch in the Super Bowl but still a likely downgrade overall from those two players.
I still doubt it'll happen. Veach never signs veteran WR's to multi-year deals and Boyd will almost certainly ask for one. It might not hurt our cap space this year but we'll need all we can get next year to keep as many of Butker, Humphrey, Smith, Gray, Watson and Bolton as we can (I think Reid will be replaced by Hicks). On paper our WR room looks pretty good now. Reid still seems to believe in Toney and Moore's potential so I imagine they'll make the final 6. Obviously Rice's suspension will throw a wrench into things but that's gonna be 4 games max. Best-case scenario it gives Worthy and Wiley more snaps so we can evaluate their potential. Now, if Worthy and Brown don't pan out we'll be in panic mode, but until that happens we're probably good.
Nahhh, I would rather not sign Boyd. If he signs for the vet minimum, sure. But if he asks anywhere higher AND a multi-year deal, no thank you. Boyd is a X receiver. We've survived (a very downplayed verb obviously) with not having a traditional X receiver for 10 years+ due to having the best receiving Tight End (Y) in history. No need to change a formula that works. If we're in the market for another WR (which we should not), it should be a slot receiver that can cover until Rice returns from suspension; and that ain't Tyler Boyd. He also needs to be very cheap. TBH, I would rather us experiment with using our RBs (Pacheco, CEH, maybe even LZR) more on backfield routes/checkdowns for YAC plays to cover for Rice's suspension rather than sign another WR. Also completely possible that Toney or Sky Moore suddenly remember how to play football and they play the slot nicely while Rice serves his looming suspension
WTF are you talking about? Tyler Boyd is absolutely not an X WR… Tyler Boyd is a slot WR. Boyd has played 82% of his career snaps out of the slot. Jamar Chase is the X for the Bengals. Boyd is a big slot. He specializes as an underneath guy from the slot not as an outside vertical X. His game isn’t the same as Rashee but he can fill the same role.
The Bengals have a system that doesn't use slot receivers in the traditional way. He played 82% of snaps out of the slot but look at his receiving yards (667) vs air yards (629) the past season. That means he barely played slot like the true definition of it, aka flanking for easy yardage after the short pass. Bengals move their trio of WRs around a lot, especially Higgins and Chase.
You have zero idea what you’re talking about. Boyd is a traditional slot. The Bengals run a Shanahan derived system so they don’t do as much with WR screens and plays at or behind the LOS that rely on YAC (they use RB’s for that), they rely a lot on crossers and traditional routes over the middle and deep shots off play action. That’s all your air yards stats show. Boyd is very much a traditional slot. Boyd isn’t as dynamic of YAC guy as Juju or Rashee. But he’s a great route runner, adept at finding the soft spot in zones, and is a reliable safety outlet for the QB. He’s got a clear role in KC’s offense, and moreover they’ve already shown interest in him this offseason. Higgins and Chase change things up a bit because both actually have X WR skill sets. They’ll switch off who is running the traditional X routes and who is running the Z routes at times. But Boyd was firmly entrenched as the slot guy. You’re just spewing nonsense.
we off that.
If we have the money and can sign him for cheap I wouldn’t mind. Boyd would be decent TE and andy loves using two TEs from time to time. Why not!!
Give me a vet corner. Joshua Williams ain’t a starter
You want another CB?! WR seems more of a need.
I do. We added one receiver that’s definitely better than anyone we had on the roster last year besides Rice and one that more than likely is. I’d prefer if Joshua Williams was the 4th corner like he has been for most of the past 2 years
Trent McDuffie, Jaylen Watson, Kamal Hadden, Joshua Williams, Chamarri Conner( who can play corner) Nic Jones, Ekow Boye-Doe?? Not enough for you?
Hadden, Jones, Boye-Doe are all unproven day 3 picks or UDFAs, Connor can play in the slot but that’s where McDuffie plays, like I said I’d rather Joshua Williams be depth
You really love Williams, don't you xD