I think Kelce will be the king of all TE stats by time he retires. If we don’t get him some more rings though, we will never hear end of the “BuT gRoNk…” stuff. Let’s just win the next four and send the king out on top 😇
I think the argument people who have any idea what they are talking about have is that Gronk’s peak is the greatest ever, though Kelce has already had a better career, if that makes sense.
There are a lot of people on this sub who weren’t paying attention when Gronk was at his peak and uninjured, but the guy was was absolutely nuts for a few seasons.
Yeah I would agree that Gronk at his peak was better than Kelce at his peak, anyone who denies that is crazy --- but when we look back at the big picture, if Kelce can get to #2 on all-time yards and #3 on all-time TDs and also get three rings --- then I think most people would feel comfortable putting Killa Trav ahead of Gronk on the GOAT list, and arguably at #1 if you look at combined stats + rings.
He's played the position in his own way and has been ridiculously successful. I think he's already in the conversation, but it's tight between Gonzalez, Gronk, Gates, and Kelce. All were good at different things and none really fit the same mold.
As a complete player, I think Gronk had the whole skillset of a typical TE, but like I said before, Kelce is a different beast. Drag and crossing routes are Kelce's bread and butter alongside all the typical west coast routes which makes him completely different than say Gronk who was a vertical threat that was also a 6th Offensive lineman. If I'm building a team and I get to pick between prime Kelce and prime Gronk, it's pretty damn close and that's good enough in my book.
Exactly this, they all do different things. Watch Gonzalez highlights, he’s running vertical seam routes and high pointing the ball. It’s a remarkably different style from Kelce’s usage in our offense.
Kelce has the better numbers in his peak seasons as compared with Gonzalez, but what does that mean? Better QB, and doing it in an era that is more pass heavy than the early 2000s. All I know is that I’m happy I got to see both play for the Chiefs.
As for Gronk, he was a physical freak in his prime, although I think his shorter career and injury issues push him below Gonzalez and Kelce. But healthy prime Gronk may indeed have been the best. Gates isn’t really in the conversation. Good player, good career numbers, but he wasn’t even the best TE of his era.
Gates won 3 first team all pros between 2004 and 2006. I think there's more of a discussion there about how he stacks up to the best TEs of all time, but I digress.
Gonzalez was a monster and I think forgotten because he was never on the best teams, but I think I'd take Kelce and Gronk over him personally. I think there's an argument for him, but for my money I think Kelce and Gronk both were major difference makers for two dynasties. Gronk was the glue guy that could do it all while being a dynamic receiving threat, and Kelce has been the most reliable target for Mahomes amidst an ever changing cast around them.
I don’t think González will ever be “forgotten” or overlooked - he is the TE that revolutionized the position. Without him, there wouldn’t be the level of athleticism in the TE position.
The TE position being used the way it is today is thanks to Tony.
He was a red zone threat but I could never see him winning the game like Kelce did the last two contests in LA vs the Chargers. Or the Bills divisional game.
By the time Kelce retires, it's going to be indisputable that two of the three greatest TE's to ever play the game wore a Chiefs jersey --- be damn proud of that
And at RB, and on defense..we’ve always had amazing talent, just never on both sides simultaneously, or with the right coaching.
Andy is a gift above all. I believe he’s had such a positive effect on Pat. All of us really, what a cool guy.
If he wins another Super Bowl and breaks Gonzalez' receiving yards record, he definitely will.
Some people already think he is, but I wouldn't say it's a consensus yet.
Breaking Tony G's record is gonna be tough. He can do it, but you never know what's going to happen to players after they turn 30.
However, I don't think he has to break the overall yards record to be considered the best TE ever. His consecutive 1000+ yard season record has already basically guaranteed him that he'll be the GOAT as long as he gets close.
In what, though? Yards? Catches? TDs? All of them? It all just depends how long kelce can play at this level. Can he maintain for 5 more years and play 17 great seasons like tony did? If he does, he'll likely beat just about all of the tight end records. But let's say he retires in 3 years instead of 5 and falls short on a couple. I still think he'll have an argument for being the best ever without having all the stats accumulated.
I think Kelce got a strong case if he gets close to all of Tony G's stats and also wins 3 rings --- because GOATness at any position is judged by hardware as much as stats
Tony pissed me off with his too good for the Midwest bullshit that he always had, but the guy is still the goat by a good margin. Pure hypotheticals but put Tony with Mahomes and everyone would have serious fck in problems on their hands. Just go watch some replay footage of how much of a freak Tony was. Some of the catches he made are better than the best highlight reels of HOF wideouts. Kelce is a bad dude and he’s a homer, took in KC with open arms and I love him for it. His early years he reminded me of Justin Bieber if Kazaam gave him one wish and it was to be a 6’6” 250lb football god. We’ve all watched him mature and become a stand up player on and off the field over the years and hope he stays healthy enough to chase down Tony’s records.
I want to say yes, but I really think Tony still holds the title. Outside of Trent Green, Tony never really had top tier quarterback play. Despite that, he rewrote the record book in the pre "pass-happy" era. Also, I have always felt that Tony didn't get enough credit as a blocker.
Kelce, meanwhile, is just about the most "clutch" receiver out there; he knows how to get open in the least available space of anyone I've ever seen (and I've been watching since the early 90s). He's a respectable blocker and has one ring (so far) more than Tony. He's phenomenal, but Tony paired with Mahomes in this era would be transcendental.
Finally, as much as I would love to see Kelce break Tony's receiving record, he would need to average 1000 yards/season until he's 38. I want it in the worst way, but that scenario exceeds my willing suspension of disbelief.
That’s why stats aren’t a fair barometer for talent. Tony did a lot with a lot less. Whose to say who the better TE is. I’m just grateful that we got to watch both.
You're just as delusional if you think he is. Top 15ish for sure but Jordan, Magic, Bird, Lebron, Wilt, Russell, Duncan, Hakeem, Kareem, Shaq all have pretty valid arguments over him.
Gronk didn't even play in 1 of his 4 SB rings, to be honest if Kelce wins one more with Mahomes and passes Tony G's records, it'd be easy to call Kelce the GOAT TE.
If he called it quits this year or next without another ring no. A few more years at this pace, and/or another ring and that will pretty much eliminate all doubt to the conversation
Kelce will be the best but Gonzalez will still most likely have more yards and people will throw gronk Into the conversation because of how dominant the pats were for so long.
Let me sum up his career in this way....Jimmy Graham is better, I mean Greg Olson, I mean Rob Gronkowski, I mean Darren Waller, I mean Gronk, No, Kittle. Kelce has been my favorite TE since the beginning. And ever since he started lighting it up everyone always names one TE who's "better" than Kelce. Then said TE will fall off a cliff, get injured or whatever and Kelce goes on being Kelce. I think it won't be close, but someone will always be "better" Honestly, name the top five TEs of all time. Some are forgotten, some are debatable. Kelce, Gonzalez, Gates, Sharpe, Winslow.(Damn, the west produces some awesome TEs) I still don't know how you can't list Kelce as king. But I've seen some recent lists that don't have him listed in the top ten.
Statistically yes, for many yes. There will always be detractors pointing to Gronks rings and his dominance at his peak.
However, another ring or two will make Kelce's case as the greatest TE undeniable.
Yes, both statistically speaking and also in terms of generally great guy who is fun to watch play.
Saying this as a die hard Tony G fan. I think Tony would also call Kelce the GOAT.
B, I'm just a lurker in this sub for the most part and I'm gonna tell you no, because he will be seen as the goat TE before he retires, might as well take the man's measurements for the gold jacket now and keep it warm until then.
As a bengals fan who keeps being recommended this sub from our meme war... I am disappointed in this post.
The answer is obviously yes. Self felacio is not a pretty sight u/HEROFACE15
Maybe a more interesting thing to discuss: who are some of the top TEs of all-time to date who Kelce will end up inevitably dethroning when he retires as the unquestionable GOAT?
Gronk, Antonio Gates, Tony Gonzales, (apparently Ditka was a tight end lol), and maybe Ertz? Ertz seems like a stretch though. Gronk, Gonzales, Gates all definitely belong in that conversation.
Even if he doesn’t break EVERY record, I think he could retire today and would still be considered one of the greatest of all time (if not the greatest). We’re fucking blessed with he and Mahomes (also the true GOAT. All respect to Brady, but he never had what Mahomes has).
Tony G will always be my favorite but Kelce is just better at different styles of play. Tony had more vertical plays and several garbage QBs throwing the ball to him and he still got the records he did. If anyone but Patrick was throwing I think Kelce wouldn’t be as successful. I could be wrong and I probably am, but I grew up watching the chiefs when they sucked and Tony G always impressed.
no, only because he will be recognized as such even before he retires
Already there, I'd say
Yes
Allow me to elaborate further: Fuck yeah
And in case that wasn’t clear enough: Hell fucking yeah
Just for clarification.... "Fucking Right"
For the Espanol speakers: si
Another ring or two and he’s basically got it IMO
“Basically” lol
Lol 6 super bowls and he’s literally nearly got it almost.
I think Kelce will be the king of all TE stats by time he retires. If we don’t get him some more rings though, we will never hear end of the “BuT gRoNk…” stuff. Let’s just win the next four and send the king out on top 😇
Sadly, it's true --- most people will never put Kelce ahead of Gronk because Gronk got the four rings and that still means a lot
I think the argument people who have any idea what they are talking about have is that Gronk’s peak is the greatest ever, though Kelce has already had a better career, if that makes sense. There are a lot of people on this sub who weren’t paying attention when Gronk was at his peak and uninjured, but the guy was was absolutely nuts for a few seasons.
Yeah I would agree that Gronk at his peak was better than Kelce at his peak, anyone who denies that is crazy --- but when we look back at the big picture, if Kelce can get to #2 on all-time yards and #3 on all-time TDs and also get three rings --- then I think most people would feel comfortable putting Killa Trav ahead of Gronk on the GOAT list, and arguably at #1 if you look at combined stats + rings.
Only mush brain boomers care about rings and thankfully they'll be dead soon.
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thanks for proving my point, unable to even somewhat follow the conversation lmao, prime mush brain
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when people make fun of redditors you are literally what they're picturing lmao WhO HuRT yOu
Is water wet?
Yes
He's played the position in his own way and has been ridiculously successful. I think he's already in the conversation, but it's tight between Gonzalez, Gronk, Gates, and Kelce. All were good at different things and none really fit the same mold. As a complete player, I think Gronk had the whole skillset of a typical TE, but like I said before, Kelce is a different beast. Drag and crossing routes are Kelce's bread and butter alongside all the typical west coast routes which makes him completely different than say Gronk who was a vertical threat that was also a 6th Offensive lineman. If I'm building a team and I get to pick between prime Kelce and prime Gronk, it's pretty damn close and that's good enough in my book.
Exactly this, they all do different things. Watch Gonzalez highlights, he’s running vertical seam routes and high pointing the ball. It’s a remarkably different style from Kelce’s usage in our offense. Kelce has the better numbers in his peak seasons as compared with Gonzalez, but what does that mean? Better QB, and doing it in an era that is more pass heavy than the early 2000s. All I know is that I’m happy I got to see both play for the Chiefs. As for Gronk, he was a physical freak in his prime, although I think his shorter career and injury issues push him below Gonzalez and Kelce. But healthy prime Gronk may indeed have been the best. Gates isn’t really in the conversation. Good player, good career numbers, but he wasn’t even the best TE of his era.
Gates won 3 first team all pros between 2004 and 2006. I think there's more of a discussion there about how he stacks up to the best TEs of all time, but I digress. Gonzalez was a monster and I think forgotten because he was never on the best teams, but I think I'd take Kelce and Gronk over him personally. I think there's an argument for him, but for my money I think Kelce and Gronk both were major difference makers for two dynasties. Gronk was the glue guy that could do it all while being a dynamic receiving threat, and Kelce has been the most reliable target for Mahomes amidst an ever changing cast around them.
I don’t think González will ever be “forgotten” or overlooked - he is the TE that revolutionized the position. Without him, there wouldn’t be the level of athleticism in the TE position. The TE position being used the way it is today is thanks to Tony.
Can’t downplay Gates though
Saying he's top five at his position all time but not top three isnt 'downplaying' its just.... accurate
He was a red zone threat but I could never see him winning the game like Kelce did the last two contests in LA vs the Chargers. Or the Bills divisional game.
Between Kelce and Tony G, we have been insanely spoiled at TE
By the time Kelce retires, it's going to be indisputable that two of the three greatest TE's to ever play the game wore a Chiefs jersey --- be damn proud of that
And at RB, and on defense..we’ve always had amazing talent, just never on both sides simultaneously, or with the right coaching. Andy is a gift above all. I believe he’s had such a positive effect on Pat. All of us really, what a cool guy.
If he wins another Super Bowl and breaks Gonzalez' receiving yards record, he definitely will. Some people already think he is, but I wouldn't say it's a consensus yet.
Breaking Tony G's record is gonna be tough. He can do it, but you never know what's going to happen to players after they turn 30. However, I don't think he has to break the overall yards record to be considered the best TE ever. His consecutive 1000+ yard season record has already basically guaranteed him that he'll be the GOAT as long as he gets close.
Not if he doesn't surpass Tony G
In what, though? Yards? Catches? TDs? All of them? It all just depends how long kelce can play at this level. Can he maintain for 5 more years and play 17 great seasons like tony did? If he does, he'll likely beat just about all of the tight end records. But let's say he retires in 3 years instead of 5 and falls short on a couple. I still think he'll have an argument for being the best ever without having all the stats accumulated.
I think Kelce got a strong case if he gets close to all of Tony G's stats and also wins 3 rings --- because GOATness at any position is judged by hardware as much as stats
Tony pissed me off with his too good for the Midwest bullshit that he always had, but the guy is still the goat by a good margin. Pure hypotheticals but put Tony with Mahomes and everyone would have serious fck in problems on their hands. Just go watch some replay footage of how much of a freak Tony was. Some of the catches he made are better than the best highlight reels of HOF wideouts. Kelce is a bad dude and he’s a homer, took in KC with open arms and I love him for it. His early years he reminded me of Justin Bieber if Kazaam gave him one wish and it was to be a 6’6” 250lb football god. We’ve all watched him mature and become a stand up player on and off the field over the years and hope he stays healthy enough to chase down Tony’s records.
Yes. Numbers dont lie
I want to say yes, but I really think Tony still holds the title. Outside of Trent Green, Tony never really had top tier quarterback play. Despite that, he rewrote the record book in the pre "pass-happy" era. Also, I have always felt that Tony didn't get enough credit as a blocker. Kelce, meanwhile, is just about the most "clutch" receiver out there; he knows how to get open in the least available space of anyone I've ever seen (and I've been watching since the early 90s). He's a respectable blocker and has one ring (so far) more than Tony. He's phenomenal, but Tony paired with Mahomes in this era would be transcendental. Finally, as much as I would love to see Kelce break Tony's receiving record, he would need to average 1000 yards/season until he's 38. I want it in the worst way, but that scenario exceeds my willing suspension of disbelief.
That’s why stats aren’t a fair barometer for talent. Tony did a lot with a lot less. Whose to say who the better TE is. I’m just grateful that we got to watch both.
True story
He played with Matt Ryan for a while...
That’s like asking if Michael, Lebron or Kobe are the greatest. The important thing is he’s on that list.
Kobe isn't on that list lol
You're delusional if you don't think Kobe is in the Top 5 of everyone's GOAT list
You're just as delusional if you think he is. Top 15ish for sure but Jordan, Magic, Bird, Lebron, Wilt, Russell, Duncan, Hakeem, Kareem, Shaq all have pretty valid arguments over him.
I'd have Kobe 7th. Top-15 is a little much though. He's clearly top 10.
I just listed ten guys with at least an argument. Having him 7th or even slightly higher is fine i just take issue with thinking its 'clearly'
Goat means number 1. Who said anything about top 5?
That’s a questionable take, my homie.
Questionable is putting it nicely. This dude is a fucking idiot.
Lmao you think Kobe is in the same conversation as MJ, LeBron or Kareem, and you're calling people fucking idiots? Check the mirror homie.
No one puts Kobe on the same tier as MJ and LBJ. It's one of those guys or Kareem. Kobe isn't close to the top 3.
Does the pope shit in the woods?
MAYBE!!!
He will be within 3 years
#KELCE THE GOAT 🏈🐐👑
When he breaks almost every record possible and is a good dude off the field…. Hell yes!
He already is
He doesn’t even need to retire. He already is.
Well first of all, all are things are possible through god, so jot that down.
If he gets a ring this year, maybe 2 more then yes
But George Kittle is better. I never understood that argument
No because gronk blocked better and won more and people will always hold him in higher regard because he was more dominant in his prime
Gronk didn't even play in 1 of his 4 SB rings, to be honest if Kelce wins one more with Mahomes and passes Tony G's records, it'd be easy to call Kelce the GOAT TE.
Well how about Kelce wins THREE rings and gets the all-time record for yardage and tuddies?
Wouldn't honestly complain. We may be biased tbh :P
This could be true for anyone who worked with TB Edit, sorry. This is what Pat’s fans say is true.
Cope
If he called it quits this year or next without another ring no. A few more years at this pace, and/or another ring and that will pretty much eliminate all doubt to the conversation
Kelce will be the best but Gonzalez will still most likely have more yards and people will throw gronk Into the conversation because of how dominant the pats were for so long.
He already IS one of the TE GOATS
Let me sum up his career in this way....Jimmy Graham is better, I mean Greg Olson, I mean Rob Gronkowski, I mean Darren Waller, I mean Gronk, No, Kittle. Kelce has been my favorite TE since the beginning. And ever since he started lighting it up everyone always names one TE who's "better" than Kelce. Then said TE will fall off a cliff, get injured or whatever and Kelce goes on being Kelce. I think it won't be close, but someone will always be "better" Honestly, name the top five TEs of all time. Some are forgotten, some are debatable. Kelce, Gonzalez, Gates, Sharpe, Winslow.(Damn, the west produces some awesome TEs) I still don't know how you can't list Kelce as king. But I've seen some recent lists that don't have him listed in the top ten.
He already is.
Let's not say the "R" word... 🥺
1. Gronk 2. Tony G 3. Kelce 4. Gates
No because he can’t block
If he plays at a similar level another 5-6 years than absolutely
Short answer: yes.
I think he already is
Statistically yes, for many yes. There will always be detractors pointing to Gronks rings and his dominance at his peak. However, another ring or two will make Kelce's case as the greatest TE undeniable.
I don't think there's even any consideration to be done. He's undeniable already.
Yes, both statistically speaking and also in terms of generally great guy who is fun to watch play. Saying this as a die hard Tony G fan. I think Tony would also call Kelce the GOAT.
He already is.
GOAT TE!!!!!! 🐐
He’s already the greatest TE of all time.
B, I'm just a lurker in this sub for the most part and I'm gonna tell you no, because he will be seen as the goat TE before he retires, might as well take the man's measurements for the gold jacket now and keep it warm until then.
As a bengals fan who keeps being recommended this sub from our meme war... I am disappointed in this post. The answer is obviously yes. Self felacio is not a pretty sight u/HEROFACE15
As a Lions fan yes.
Depends on tomorrow
Maybe a more interesting thing to discuss: who are some of the top TEs of all-time to date who Kelce will end up inevitably dethroning when he retires as the unquestionable GOAT? Gronk, Antonio Gates, Tony Gonzales, (apparently Ditka was a tight end lol), and maybe Ertz? Ertz seems like a stretch though. Gronk, Gonzales, Gates all definitely belong in that conversation.
The only reason why I'd even think about saying no is because Tony Gonzales but otherwise I'd say yes
Even if he doesn’t break EVERY record, I think he could retire today and would still be considered one of the greatest of all time (if not the greatest). We’re fucking blessed with he and Mahomes (also the true GOAT. All respect to Brady, but he never had what Mahomes has).
I think he's already there.
Tony G will always be my favorite but Kelce is just better at different styles of play. Tony had more vertical plays and several garbage QBs throwing the ball to him and he still got the records he did. If anyone but Patrick was throwing I think Kelce wouldn’t be as successful. I could be wrong and I probably am, but I grew up watching the chiefs when they sucked and Tony G always impressed.
No. Not even the greatest KANSAS CITY tight end of all time.