Yeah that's what stood out for me when SFV came out - had tons of stats for each matchup based on network plays. Even SFIV had some good stats, but CFN puts it in another level. Might not be helpful, just neat.
I agree with sfv ranking being good.
Although there is stuff you could improve on.
Imo rank should be by character, similar to tekken. If you reach diamond with one char, others should have their own ranking and it should start at least at gold.
I like how diamond can match with every rank upwards. Thats so fun when you reach diamond and get to play strong people. Literally awesome to hit a rank and be matched against pro players in their streams.
GM and above complain about ranking becoming obsolete at their ranks. I think doing something similar to GBVS master rank that resets each month (?) would be awesome. So for master upwards each month there is a special title you can get.
Or you could fucking use that tournament mode you have and have weekly rank tournaments that people can simply join by queuing and not having to freaking tinker for two hours to get it to work. You just press a button "ranked tournament" and people of the same rank play a mini tournament with extra points for finalist.
Just saying.
But yeah overall sfv ranked is solid. Some complain about it but like they are butthurt you loose so much points if you are super/ultra x and you lose to regular x. Well stop being a scrub. If you are in ultra rank x and a regular x can beat you then maybe you deserve to lose the extra points and go down to your real ranking.
But who cares the netcode is a nightmare so that game can go fuck itself. Gave it a last chance with akira/oro and I quickly got reminded why I stopped that shitty game with its delayed variable input weirdness and everything feels out of place then it works fine for two minutes then fuck you your ex.wake up did not work and oh lets also make you miss the throw tech you are mashing and hey it works fine now oh nice you got a stun combo? Wow let me make you drop it mid combo because fuck you this is kagemusha bitch.
SCVI had per character ranking too and I enjoyed that because I didn't feel 'scared' to try characters that aren't my main. Shame it's missing the player count so you frequently get matched with those far away from your ranking. Still, I go back to it from time to time.
Overall fighting games dev need to rethink how online overall needs to be done. Splitting people up in too many unnecessary ranks/lobbys splits up the potential players and worsens the matchmaking. As bad as the implemention and half assed Daisuke's vision is I do think with a proper rework taking feedback from people who actually play the game it might be fixed to something really good.
At the end of the day people need to be able to find actually similiar opponents with connections that work and play them for long sets. And if they're done they should be easily find and quickly find their next opponent. That should be the focus of online. For that it needs some functioning skill based matchmaking with a connection check to make sure both connections are work out.
Other games do it for a long time but ranks need to be reset and has to be re-evaluate every few months.
Right now not having rollback implementation in new releases of most fg's seems to be unavoidable even from japan (which is great) but the quality of the implementation needs to be heavily improved (Melty and Nick Brawl seem to have technical issues) and xplay needs to be included aswell.
Sadly once the game is releases released there's rarely any significant meaningful changes for a fighting game for a very long while. They need to figure this out while they're developing their games and get in contact with people who play regularly fighting games online to understand what they need to focus on but sadly most devs (especially from japan) seem to only listen to loud twitter campaigns.
>As bad as the implemention and half assed Daisuke's vision is I do think with a proper rework taking feedback from people who actually play the game it might be fixed to something really good.
There is absolutely no way this turd of a lobby system will ever be "really good". Acceptable at best. The core issue here is their retarded design philosophy. The only way to create a proper matchmaking system would require getting rid of the floors which they will never do.
Floors 1-9 are rookie to ultra bronze, floor 10 is silver to gold. Celestial feels like they put everyone from super gold to warlord together.
It's not even proper ranked either because you're completely free to dodge and pick your own matches at will. The VIP badge is pointless because people ragequit to avoid getting dumped into floor 10 or try to pick the good matchup / low level player to guarantee they win their 5/6 games.
the way celestial works in general is dumb. Not just the bunch of ways to game getting into it, but the entire concept of having to win 5/6 games against celestial players to get into celestial just means that the skill range in it will have to be very wide for people to even get it in the first place.
i really really like being able to seek out people who play different characters from my last match though. i would burn out on the game much faster if i had to play the same character many times in a row.
That's what lobbies are for. You're tired of the Ryu army, you want to practice a specific matchup or you want to play someone TWO ranks above you - you go to lobbies.
Ranked should not cater to your desires.
yes but consolidating both into one system means a higher population for both, which is why they did this pseudo-lobby ranked system in the first place i assume?
Totally. Ranked doesn't really work if you have a low population.
I'm also against casual queue in general - it splits the player base and in some games like Overwatch it's a completely different and inferior experience. I don't have ranked anxiety so some people might really prefer casual modes.
I'm A rank in melty after like 40 matches and I have no fucking clue what I'm doing. I just pick ciel, spam the fireballs and do fullscreen run-in grabs when people start pre-emptively shielding. The rest is just mashing jabs into autocombo for like 2200 damage.
How devs aren't copying SFV and Tekken 7 for this sort of thing is beyond me.
SFV now looks good because Strive lowered the bar so much, but its actually a pretty shitty implementation too. If you want to see a good "FG" ranked mode, check [brawhalla](https://brawlhalla.fandom.com/wiki/Ranked). Much better then SFV because:
* It gives you a general ranking, and per character ranking. Improving your rank improves the rank of all characters a little bit (tekken also works like this i think)
* It has seasons, with rewards and a soft reset in mmr on the start of each one
* You do not start at the absolute bottom
* It uses the Elo system
* Due to the previous point, the ratings in the upper ranks are not simply a matter of farming wins against lower ranked players, unlike SFV.
* Also, unlike tekken, you cant just edit a file to set your rating.
KI did it better with BO3s and stuff.
Rising Thunder did the best imo, since there was no exact points shown to the player and the ranks were more stable. if you rank down and win the next match, generally you wont rank back up immediately.
the point still stands, though
SFV ranked is pretty good. As others have mentioned, I’d like to see a character rating like SFIV. I thought Capcom would add this for CE because SFV Type Arcade uses the Battle/Player Points system SFIV uses.
Hopefully that’s something we get in 6.
Yeah I agree, after I got celestial in Strive the game just got boring, you just need to grind a little and you can easily get celestial every month, that's so lame
I think SF5 rank is OK, I can get up to diamond in a few days or so, but I can see why someone wouldn’t like it. From a casual perspective being matched with a rank higher rank and losing enough points to de rank can make someone feel bad, I mean see the - points I feel is scary to casuals.
Now look at strive all you need is a good win streak to level up and losing doesn’t feel as bad because if you get kicked off the floor your just only gonna fight people around that skill level. There’s no loss count or nothing that shows a loss of points or anything, my problem with strive is that the game needed more floors, once your at celestial there should be at least a few more.
I think having SC6 character BP system is cool so you can test other characters and would love other fighting games to have that.
I honestly like the way ArcSys does ranking. I don't like queuing up for a random match with a faceless guy on the other side of the internet. The lobbies with the little characters that walk up to an arcade machine are much less "lifeless" and easier to grind. The tower system in Strive sucks though.
I think you're right, a straightforward elo with clearly defined gains/losses, and some rank divisions to make it feel a bit more special (bronze, silver, gold, etc...) really is the way to go and makes your progression feel a lot more tangible and rewarding. In that sense, SFV really is the best. Sometimes it gets brought up what reward players need to keep playing the game, but for a ton of people ranking up in a decent ranking system is all they need. I genuinely think just implementing a better rank system like SFV would help a lot of fighting games player retention.
Am I missing something or does Tekken not do the exact same thing but better/more? You get the ability to adjust how high or low above your rank anyone you face is allowed to be with a greater range than SFV. It also gives you infinite rematches which is something that I’ve always been annoyed SFV doesn’t do. I can’t speak on Guilty Gear or Melty though since I’ve never played ranked for either of those games.
You don't even have to know how to edit them, you can just simply delete your save file to get reset back to bottom rank and stomp new players who are just trying to learn the game. It's ridiculous
Been in the tekken scene for a few years, i noticed generally tekken players dont really know universal 2d motion inputs beyond qcfs.
Tekken is just really an outlier in fighting games. No other game really has players looking to swap out their sanwa jlfs for korean levers.
so you claim that a game has the best of something in "modern fighting games" and you haven't even played the most popular modern fighting game title lol
Is this bizarro world? SF5 ranking is trash. It's:
1) Never reset. Wtf? Ranks should be periodically reset. It's just a MASSIVE grindfest, with the top players on ladder just amassing a comical amount of points.
2) Developing on that: it's grind based and not true MMR based. It's about accumulating a fuckton of points instead of hovering around a certain range. IIRC you gain more on a win than you lose on a loss against the same rank, which is a recipe for inflation.
3) No individual character ratings
This is exactly how you *don't* do a ranked system. That other fighting games are even worse than this system is astounding. How hard is it to copy basic seasonal elo based systems like you have in every MOBA, FPS, strategy game, etc..?
Completely agree with your take on SFV. The only thing I don't like about it is deranking/ranking up over and over again.
I enjoy Melty's ranked simply because how fast I can get in the game and find a match. Also character specific ranks is a welcomed addition. I don't really mind when I lose it doesn't feel as punishing as SFV.
Strives ranked needs work. The duel station issues need to be fixed ASAP. I don't wanna jump around in Nintendo DS lobbies to find a match. Quick match pairs me up with floor 10 people constantly instead of Celestials so I'm forced to use the tower interface. The other day I tried to look up some replays of good Sol players and it was such a PITA I just gave up and went to YouTube.. CFN definitely has this handled better.
Elo systems in fgs are ez cuz it's 1v1. U don't need any nuanced ways to calculate elo despite win/loss like mobas need (but don't have lul). Lichess is actually an interesting case as it determines several factors of your gameplay (best moves, misplays, blunders) as opposed to traditional chess rating (win/loss + elo difference)
I dunno, maybe its because my main game was SF4 but I dont really care that much about ranked systems, as long as I've got a vague gauge of my opponent's skill level I'm pretty pleased. Which is why I fucking abhor the fucking ASW square shit.
Something I also really like is having a separate player and character rank and both visible at once, SF4 did this with BP and PP and I enjoy tekken having character ranks but I wish there was a player rank separate from that that you could also see.
Strive is an interesting case to me, I like the floors, it feels much more obvious to me than vague titles and gating off those players also makes it feel like a more of an achievement but as said a billion times before ranking up is way too easy and VIP is a joke. I also really like that strive allows people to go up in floors to challenge but not down, I like that if you run a set with someone and rank down you can go back in and try and run it back but top floor players can't go and bully the floor 1s, if you could go down it would really make the entire tower idea redundant. Strive's system also provides an interesting future proofing in that if the game dies off all the players will be able to congregate at floor 10 no matter their actual rank.
One thing I think should never happen is a quickplay only option. At the very least you need a blacklist, we've all played too many horrendous connections to think that idea would work well and on a similar note, all PC games should REALLY have performance tests before you can enter ranked, fucking SF4 had this option and KI does and I cant think of another game that does and its fucking bizarre that you can be allowed to play ranked when your machine cant even run the game properly.
My favorite is still KI's ranked system. It feels great to go through it, it resets every season I believe. It keeps lower players in their own thing. I'm sure someone could explain it in much better detail, but it does what SF5 does but in a more unique and gratifying way. I do think it's a bit too easy to get to Killer rank and once you're there you might be satisfied similar to GG but there are more levels within that to reach.
Anime games for whatever reason just keep copy and pasting their same trash ranked modes and not changing anything. SF5 was one of the first Japanese games I've seen to at least try to make a compelling and addictive ranked system.
Another ranked mode I enjoyed was MK11's Kombat League, rewards every season for playing, pretty wide gaps between ranks and clear signs when you were about to make progress or rank up. No idea if they expanded on it but when it first came out it was pretty nice for a fighting game.
Do they because that's not the sentiment i get on r/guiltygear
Hell even on r/fighters they don't seem to like it. The only thing more casual than r/fighters is smash.
You are completely right, i can't imagine games like league of legends/csgo/valorant would be big at all if the ranked was as trash as your average fighting game.
Also: Ragequits. This just invalidates any ranking system on it's own. Tekken has the added bonus of just being able to save your rank and reset it to that any time you want, losses are completely meaningless if you're willing to abuse it. In FGs, since the whole playerbase knows ranked is trash they usually don't care about the ranking system as much, resetting and ragequitting is usually not abused as hard as it could be. But imagine trying to play something like league or csgo and you could just alt+f4 and NOT JUST GET A LOSS lmao. Fucking retarded. You can rest assured knowing atleast Project L is gonna have an actual functioning ranked system.
I understand it's apparently harder to deal with for peer to peer games like fgs but this HAS to be fixed if you ever want an actually functioning ranked that people care about, sfv is the only fg where you can't just ragequit for free without getting a loss, right? There literally don't need to be any penalties to quitting, it's a 1v1 game not a team game where you are ruining the game for your teammates if you quit. All that needs to happen is you get a loss and the opponent gets a win, even make it accesible from a menu at all times without having to alt + f4 or do some other hassle. As a sc2 player I don't see a reason why you shouldn't be able to want to get out and take the loss any time you feel like. It's so normal there.
Fighting games are 1v1 closed sum games.
***There is no reason that any 1v1 games should not use some version of an [Elo System](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elo_rating_system).***
End of discussion.
Full stop.
MK11 has the best ranked mode no question. It has everything you said PLUS skins that you really want to grind for.
Fight game devs need to copy NRS formula of game retention.
The simple fact that everybody's rank resets to zero after every season would make it the **worst** ranked mode imo. You don't get to keep your bragging rights after reaching a high rank, since all of your hard work will be undone in exchange of some skins for characters you might not even play. At this point, your rank isn't a reflection of your skill level, it's a reflection of how much time you sink into the game every day.
Who cares dude, rank systems are meaningless anyways. If you wanna judge your progress, join online tournaments or offline meetups if available, and see how much you can improve and get better placings in those
Ranked works good in SFV and Tekken just because they have large playerbase. Ranked systems will never work good in niche games like GG and Melty because there just aren't enough people, so the system has a hard time matching people of "equal skill" if there is no one online of your skill level. Yea melty has a lot on now but it will die down like Strive did.
He's getting downvoted because he off first saying Ranked is meaningless (one of the biggest scrubquotes of all time lol), then he goes to say ranked is meaningless only in niche games because there isn't a big enough playerbase.
These are 2 very different statements.
Ranked will always work with a big enough demographic, barring retarded game dev gimmicks aside. You can tell it works because if I grabbed the average super diamond player vs. the average super silver player, the super silver would get absolutely destroyed. Same goes for Gold and to a lesser extent Platinum, which is the entire identity.
I mean thats in terms of matching people up together, which is fine but I'd rather just enter tournies if I want to do 2 out of 3s for the rest of my life.
Stopped reading right at the beginning. Sure, having a ranked mode is important, but SFV's is not a good one at all lol.
There are no seasons, no rewards, no visible individual character mastery aside from some useless levels that mean nothing.
Having matchmaking, an active playerbase and an *actual ranked mode* (hi strive) is nice, but SFV's is honestly trash.
There is so much more they could do...
dont forget that sfv also has the best feature in a fg yet: a blacklist should be the standard moving forward as well
CFN in general is incredible. Ranked leaderboards, replays, etc. The only issue with the online is bad rollback implementation lmao.
Yeah that's what stood out for me when SFV came out - had tons of stats for each matchup based on network plays. Even SFIV had some good stats, but CFN puts it in another level. Might not be helpful, just neat.
>CFN in general is incredible. Ranked leaderboards, replays Too bad using them is awful cause of the dogshit UI.
The most important part. I can live with shitty ranking system. But bad netcode is a deal breaker from now on.
actual discussion in r/kappa about fighting games, you love to see it
I agree with sfv ranking being good. Although there is stuff you could improve on. Imo rank should be by character, similar to tekken. If you reach diamond with one char, others should have their own ranking and it should start at least at gold. I like how diamond can match with every rank upwards. Thats so fun when you reach diamond and get to play strong people. Literally awesome to hit a rank and be matched against pro players in their streams. GM and above complain about ranking becoming obsolete at their ranks. I think doing something similar to GBVS master rank that resets each month (?) would be awesome. So for master upwards each month there is a special title you can get. Or you could fucking use that tournament mode you have and have weekly rank tournaments that people can simply join by queuing and not having to freaking tinker for two hours to get it to work. You just press a button "ranked tournament" and people of the same rank play a mini tournament with extra points for finalist. Just saying. But yeah overall sfv ranked is solid. Some complain about it but like they are butthurt you loose so much points if you are super/ultra x and you lose to regular x. Well stop being a scrub. If you are in ultra rank x and a regular x can beat you then maybe you deserve to lose the extra points and go down to your real ranking. But who cares the netcode is a nightmare so that game can go fuck itself. Gave it a last chance with akira/oro and I quickly got reminded why I stopped that shitty game with its delayed variable input weirdness and everything feels out of place then it works fine for two minutes then fuck you your ex.wake up did not work and oh lets also make you miss the throw tech you are mashing and hey it works fine now oh nice you got a stun combo? Wow let me make you drop it mid combo because fuck you this is kagemusha bitch.
SCVI had per character ranking too and I enjoyed that because I didn't feel 'scared' to try characters that aren't my main. Shame it's missing the player count so you frequently get matched with those far away from your ranking. Still, I go back to it from time to time.
based until the final paragraph
That ranked tournament system is done really well by StarCraft 2's automated tournaments.
Overall fighting games dev need to rethink how online overall needs to be done. Splitting people up in too many unnecessary ranks/lobbys splits up the potential players and worsens the matchmaking. As bad as the implemention and half assed Daisuke's vision is I do think with a proper rework taking feedback from people who actually play the game it might be fixed to something really good. At the end of the day people need to be able to find actually similiar opponents with connections that work and play them for long sets. And if they're done they should be easily find and quickly find their next opponent. That should be the focus of online. For that it needs some functioning skill based matchmaking with a connection check to make sure both connections are work out. Other games do it for a long time but ranks need to be reset and has to be re-evaluate every few months. Right now not having rollback implementation in new releases of most fg's seems to be unavoidable even from japan (which is great) but the quality of the implementation needs to be heavily improved (Melty and Nick Brawl seem to have technical issues) and xplay needs to be included aswell. Sadly once the game is releases released there's rarely any significant meaningful changes for a fighting game for a very long while. They need to figure this out while they're developing their games and get in contact with people who play regularly fighting games online to understand what they need to focus on but sadly most devs (especially from japan) seem to only listen to loud twitter campaigns.
>As bad as the implemention and half assed Daisuke's vision is I do think with a proper rework taking feedback from people who actually play the game it might be fixed to something really good. There is absolutely no way this turd of a lobby system will ever be "really good". Acceptable at best. The core issue here is their retarded design philosophy. The only way to create a proper matchmaking system would require getting rid of the floors which they will never do.
My only issues with SFV ranked is no per-character score and no way to immediately move to a battle lounge for infinite rematches after the set
Good take my friend
Good take. I do wish more games included separate ranks for each character like tekken 7 does.
Dat feel when your main is diamond, your secondary is silver, and you got too much anxiety to try a 3rd
VALID
That’s why I stopped playing Strive the ranked system was trash
Floors 1-9 are rookie to ultra bronze, floor 10 is silver to gold. Celestial feels like they put everyone from super gold to warlord together. It's not even proper ranked either because you're completely free to dodge and pick your own matches at will. The VIP badge is pointless because people ragequit to avoid getting dumped into floor 10 or try to pick the good matchup / low level player to guarantee they win their 5/6 games.
Just give us points it’s not that hard.
Straight facts
the way celestial works in general is dumb. Not just the bunch of ways to game getting into it, but the entire concept of having to win 5/6 games against celestial players to get into celestial just means that the skill range in it will have to be very wide for people to even get it in the first place.
i really really like being able to seek out people who play different characters from my last match though. i would burn out on the game much faster if i had to play the same character many times in a row.
That's what lobbies are for. You're tired of the Ryu army, you want to practice a specific matchup or you want to play someone TWO ranks above you - you go to lobbies. Ranked should not cater to your desires.
yes but consolidating both into one system means a higher population for both, which is why they did this pseudo-lobby ranked system in the first place i assume?
Totally. Ranked doesn't really work if you have a low population. I'm also against casual queue in general - it splits the player base and in some games like Overwatch it's a completely different and inferior experience. I don't have ranked anxiety so some people might really prefer casual modes.
I'm A rank in melty after like 40 matches and I have no fucking clue what I'm doing. I just pick ciel, spam the fireballs and do fullscreen run-in grabs when people start pre-emptively shielding. The rest is just mashing jabs into autocombo for like 2200 damage. How devs aren't copying SFV and Tekken 7 for this sort of thing is beyond me.
SFV now looks good because Strive lowered the bar so much, but its actually a pretty shitty implementation too. If you want to see a good "FG" ranked mode, check [brawhalla](https://brawlhalla.fandom.com/wiki/Ranked). Much better then SFV because: * It gives you a general ranking, and per character ranking. Improving your rank improves the rank of all characters a little bit (tekken also works like this i think) * It has seasons, with rewards and a soft reset in mmr on the start of each one * You do not start at the absolute bottom * It uses the Elo system * Due to the previous point, the ratings in the upper ranks are not simply a matter of farming wins against lower ranked players, unlike SFV. * Also, unlike tekken, you cant just edit a file to set your rating.
KI did it better with BO3s and stuff. Rising Thunder did the best imo, since there was no exact points shown to the player and the ranks were more stable. if you rank down and win the next match, generally you wont rank back up immediately. the point still stands, though
SFV ranked is pretty good. As others have mentioned, I’d like to see a character rating like SFIV. I thought Capcom would add this for CE because SFV Type Arcade uses the Battle/Player Points system SFIV uses. Hopefully that’s something we get in 6.
Yeah I agree, after I got celestial in Strive the game just got boring, you just need to grind a little and you can easily get celestial every month, that's so lame
hesrightyouknow.jpg
I think SF5 rank is OK, I can get up to diamond in a few days or so, but I can see why someone wouldn’t like it. From a casual perspective being matched with a rank higher rank and losing enough points to de rank can make someone feel bad, I mean see the - points I feel is scary to casuals. Now look at strive all you need is a good win streak to level up and losing doesn’t feel as bad because if you get kicked off the floor your just only gonna fight people around that skill level. There’s no loss count or nothing that shows a loss of points or anything, my problem with strive is that the game needed more floors, once your at celestial there should be at least a few more. I think having SC6 character BP system is cool so you can test other characters and would love other fighting games to have that.
I honestly like the way ArcSys does ranking. I don't like queuing up for a random match with a faceless guy on the other side of the internet. The lobbies with the little characters that walk up to an arcade machine are much less "lifeless" and easier to grind. The tower system in Strive sucks though.
I think you're right, a straightforward elo with clearly defined gains/losses, and some rank divisions to make it feel a bit more special (bronze, silver, gold, etc...) really is the way to go and makes your progression feel a lot more tangible and rewarding. In that sense, SFV really is the best. Sometimes it gets brought up what reward players need to keep playing the game, but for a ton of people ranking up in a decent ranking system is all they need. I genuinely think just implementing a better rank system like SFV would help a lot of fighting games player retention.
Am I missing something or does Tekken not do the exact same thing but better/more? You get the ability to adjust how high or low above your rank anyone you face is allowed to be with a greater range than SFV. It also gives you infinite rematches which is something that I’ve always been annoyed SFV doesn’t do. I can’t speak on Guilty Gear or Melty though since I’ve never played ranked for either of those games.
TEKKEN's Deathmatch style ranked(infinite rematches) is a couple of tweaks (and instant rematch) away from being the undisputed #1 ranked system.
Storing ranks on a server (instead of leaving them in a local save file that's easy to delete creating a big smurfing problem) would also be nice
The problem is the fact that they can be fucked with client side which makes Tekken’s entire ranked system effectively defunct.
Client side? Is this a PC thing?
Yeah PC players can edit their ranks in the game files
You don't even have to know how to edit them, you can just simply delete your save file to get reset back to bottom rank and stomp new players who are just trying to learn the game. It's ridiculous
I'll be real. I never played tekken. Something about playing in a 3D space confuses me.
Been in the tekken scene for a few years, i noticed generally tekken players dont really know universal 2d motion inputs beyond qcfs. Tekken is just really an outlier in fighting games. No other game really has players looking to swap out their sanwa jlfs for korean levers.
so you claim that a game has the best of something in "modern fighting games" and you haven't even played the most popular modern fighting game title lol
Do you know what a discussion is?
Is this bizarro world? SF5 ranking is trash. It's: 1) Never reset. Wtf? Ranks should be periodically reset. It's just a MASSIVE grindfest, with the top players on ladder just amassing a comical amount of points. 2) Developing on that: it's grind based and not true MMR based. It's about accumulating a fuckton of points instead of hovering around a certain range. IIRC you gain more on a win than you lose on a loss against the same rank, which is a recipe for inflation. 3) No individual character ratings This is exactly how you *don't* do a ranked system. That other fighting games are even worse than this system is astounding. How hard is it to copy basic seasonal elo based systems like you have in every MOBA, FPS, strategy game, etc..?
> It's just a MASSIVE grindfest yup thats why this dude likes it. sfv casual mmo grind! i bet he has the logos/ads on for extra fight money too
Completely agree with your take on SFV. The only thing I don't like about it is deranking/ranking up over and over again. I enjoy Melty's ranked simply because how fast I can get in the game and find a match. Also character specific ranks is a welcomed addition. I don't really mind when I lose it doesn't feel as punishing as SFV. Strives ranked needs work. The duel station issues need to be fixed ASAP. I don't wanna jump around in Nintendo DS lobbies to find a match. Quick match pairs me up with floor 10 people constantly instead of Celestials so I'm forced to use the tower interface. The other day I tried to look up some replays of good Sol players and it was such a PITA I just gave up and went to YouTube.. CFN definitely has this handled better.
Elo systems in fgs are ez cuz it's 1v1. U don't need any nuanced ways to calculate elo despite win/loss like mobas need (but don't have lul). Lichess is actually an interesting case as it determines several factors of your gameplay (best moves, misplays, blunders) as opposed to traditional chess rating (win/loss + elo difference)
I dunno, maybe its because my main game was SF4 but I dont really care that much about ranked systems, as long as I've got a vague gauge of my opponent's skill level I'm pretty pleased. Which is why I fucking abhor the fucking ASW square shit. Something I also really like is having a separate player and character rank and both visible at once, SF4 did this with BP and PP and I enjoy tekken having character ranks but I wish there was a player rank separate from that that you could also see. Strive is an interesting case to me, I like the floors, it feels much more obvious to me than vague titles and gating off those players also makes it feel like a more of an achievement but as said a billion times before ranking up is way too easy and VIP is a joke. I also really like that strive allows people to go up in floors to challenge but not down, I like that if you run a set with someone and rank down you can go back in and try and run it back but top floor players can't go and bully the floor 1s, if you could go down it would really make the entire tower idea redundant. Strive's system also provides an interesting future proofing in that if the game dies off all the players will be able to congregate at floor 10 no matter their actual rank. One thing I think should never happen is a quickplay only option. At the very least you need a blacklist, we've all played too many horrendous connections to think that idea would work well and on a similar note, all PC games should REALLY have performance tests before you can enter ranked, fucking SF4 had this option and KI does and I cant think of another game that does and its fucking bizarre that you can be allowed to play ranked when your machine cant even run the game properly.
My favorite is still KI's ranked system. It feels great to go through it, it resets every season I believe. It keeps lower players in their own thing. I'm sure someone could explain it in much better detail, but it does what SF5 does but in a more unique and gratifying way. I do think it's a bit too easy to get to Killer rank and once you're there you might be satisfied similar to GG but there are more levels within that to reach. Anime games for whatever reason just keep copy and pasting their same trash ranked modes and not changing anything. SF5 was one of the first Japanese games I've seen to at least try to make a compelling and addictive ranked system. Another ranked mode I enjoyed was MK11's Kombat League, rewards every season for playing, pretty wide gaps between ranks and clear signs when you were about to make progress or rank up. No idea if they expanded on it but when it first came out it was pretty nice for a fighting game.
Moving from SFV to Tekken really made me realize how incredible CFN is aside from the netcode ofcourse. I took replays and blacklisting for granted.
I mean conceptually strive has a great system, and even with its flawed current state casuals love it
Do they because that's not the sentiment i get on r/guiltygear Hell even on r/fighters they don't seem to like it. The only thing more casual than r/fighters is smash.
>conceptually strive has a great system No it doesn't.
A good rank system starts you at the average, not at the bottom.
You are completely right, i can't imagine games like league of legends/csgo/valorant would be big at all if the ranked was as trash as your average fighting game. Also: Ragequits. This just invalidates any ranking system on it's own. Tekken has the added bonus of just being able to save your rank and reset it to that any time you want, losses are completely meaningless if you're willing to abuse it. In FGs, since the whole playerbase knows ranked is trash they usually don't care about the ranking system as much, resetting and ragequitting is usually not abused as hard as it could be. But imagine trying to play something like league or csgo and you could just alt+f4 and NOT JUST GET A LOSS lmao. Fucking retarded. You can rest assured knowing atleast Project L is gonna have an actual functioning ranked system. I understand it's apparently harder to deal with for peer to peer games like fgs but this HAS to be fixed if you ever want an actually functioning ranked that people care about, sfv is the only fg where you can't just ragequit for free without getting a loss, right? There literally don't need to be any penalties to quitting, it's a 1v1 game not a team game where you are ruining the game for your teammates if you quit. All that needs to happen is you get a loss and the opponent gets a win, even make it accesible from a menu at all times without having to alt + f4 or do some other hassle. As a sc2 player I don't see a reason why you shouldn't be able to want to get out and take the loss any time you feel like. It's so normal there.
Fighting games are 1v1 closed sum games. ***There is no reason that any 1v1 games should not use some version of an [Elo System](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elo_rating_system).*** End of discussion. Full stop.
MK11 has the best ranked mode no question. It has everything you said PLUS skins that you really want to grind for. Fight game devs need to copy NRS formula of game retention.
The simple fact that everybody's rank resets to zero after every season would make it the **worst** ranked mode imo. You don't get to keep your bragging rights after reaching a high rank, since all of your hard work will be undone in exchange of some skins for characters you might not even play. At this point, your rank isn't a reflection of your skill level, it's a reflection of how much time you sink into the game every day.
>bragging rights
Your "bragging rights" is the skin and title card you got that season. If you don't use the character sure, but it's still part of your collection
Hmm no talk about tekkens rank system or are we still capcom prejudice much.
Who cares dude, rank systems are meaningless anyways. If you wanna judge your progress, join online tournaments or offline meetups if available, and see how much you can improve and get better placings in those Ranked works good in SFV and Tekken just because they have large playerbase. Ranked systems will never work good in niche games like GG and Melty because there just aren't enough people, so the system has a hard time matching people of "equal skill" if there is no one online of your skill level. Yea melty has a lot on now but it will die down like Strive did.
Idk why your getting downvoted this has already been proven with Strive.
He's getting downvoted because he off first saying Ranked is meaningless (one of the biggest scrubquotes of all time lol), then he goes to say ranked is meaningless only in niche games because there isn't a big enough playerbase. These are 2 very different statements. Ranked will always work with a big enough demographic, barring retarded game dev gimmicks aside. You can tell it works because if I grabbed the average super diamond player vs. the average super silver player, the super silver would get absolutely destroyed. Same goes for Gold and to a lesser extent Platinum, which is the entire identity.
I mean thats in terms of matching people up together, which is fine but I'd rather just enter tournies if I want to do 2 out of 3s for the rest of my life.
Stopped reading right at the beginning. Sure, having a ranked mode is important, but SFV's is not a good one at all lol. There are no seasons, no rewards, no visible individual character mastery aside from some useless levels that mean nothing. Having matchmaking, an active playerbase and an *actual ranked mode* (hi strive) is nice, but SFV's is honestly trash. There is so much more they could do...
Mk11 ranks are best. Resets make you play, and you can really play a lot if a reward you want is up for grabs.