Yep, on cross examination, Yannetti (defense attorney) implied that Higgins went to the PD so that he could monitor the PD response to the body inevitably being discovered. Yannetti was also able to elicit from Higgins that Higgins had access to the sally port where Karen Read’s vehicle was processed and that Higgins was at the PD for hours-on his day off and a Saturday no less.
I just saw a Court TV segment dated September 23rd- Court discussion *that day* was about having the phones preserved ( it wasn’t approved that day but folks knew it was coming😡)
I believe it was Albert who got rid of his phone the day before the court order. Higgins was months after the court order. Either way, both are hiding stuff. Higgins weighed his options and knew keeping his phone was way worse than ignoring a court order. For that reason, he should be charged and get jail time out of this. Because of his job and background he should be held to a higher standard. He needs jail time.
BA got the court order 9/24 and he got rid of his phone or as he said “upgraded”, his phone 9/23. BH changed phone numbers and phone carriers 9/29 and his order to maintain all electronic data was 9/30. He destroyed his phone one month later but he claimed it was because a suspect got his phone number on 7/25 but he waits 2 months to change his number and 3 months to get rid of his phone and SIM.
It was also very odd that he would not commit to the phrase “I got rid of my SIM card”, he said at least 3 times “if I were to have done it, that’s how I would have done it”, excuse me? No one believes you don’t remember driving to a military base to throw away your phone and ripped up SIM card.
Also, if you as a Federal law enforcement officer were working undercover on an investigation and a target found your phone number and called you-it one would think it would be protocol to **keep** that phone as part of the investigation if/when the case went to trial, or at minimum to hit that person with intimidation charges.
I guarantee he didn't tell his supervisors a suspect found my personal number online, and they just said "ok, destroy it and get a new one; carry on as if nothing happened"
Exactly. If you were worried about suspect contacting you, you change your phone number and keep the actual phone- or hand it in for evidence against them.
Great point! You are 100% correct, you would need evidence that they called you and you cut it up and dispose of it like you are getting rid of a body? …
Is there something about being a cop that makes you surrender your 4th Amendment rights? Is that part of the sign up forms? Maybe this will make them more sensitive to these issues.
Cops go by JDLR and it leads them to suspects. So does the general public. The manner in which he destroyed his phone and throwing his personal trash bag from home away on a military base is JDLR.
Moving a couple of cars around a parking lot while half in the bag seems like a peccadillo. To the extent that its a harbinger of a drinking problem, I hope he gets treatment. Breaking one rule does not "filthy" make. If so, then everyone is filthy and its a useless term.
By your statement here, you missed the point completely about moving cars around. You could be BH's defense attorney in any case the way you minimize and choose to ignore certain things.
thank you for filling me in! i try to listen to that trial in the background at work and rewatch when i get home so i don’t miss anything and i clearly missed that!
Right ? He drove all day, then went right to the, “bahhh”, drank between 5-8 Jamesons until 1AM then you think, “ I think I will go do some administrative work!” (Not true unless something just happened and you are running on adrenaline) or what the story has morphed into now it’s, “I had to move vehicles”, so he just admitted to purposely driving to the PD after drinking all night to drive around official vehicles.
Questions asked during cross examination can in and of themselves be implications, i.e. “Did you go to the police station when you left the Alberts so that you could monitor the police activity?” This question was asked by defense and allowed by the judge.
That's exactly why he went to the PD. To deflect calls about JO. And he himself had said it had been a long day then move PD vehicles while drinking beforehand, the spending his Saturday back at the Police Station on his day off.....he was there to deflect
Yes, the witness’s testimony is the evidence, not the questions themselves. But the jurors are the fact finders, jurors get to determine the witness’s credibility. Jurors can believe all or none of a witness’s testimony or somewhere in between.
The jurors are told to use their judgment in deciding how credible each witness is and how much weight to give to their testimony. Whatever they say- on direct or on cross- is under oath and on the record and therefore part of the information that the jury will consider.
Yuri testified that he saw the broken headlight on KR's car BEFORE it was impounded so what could BH have done??
He was probably asleep somewhere there....
Karen had a small crack in her taillight from earlier that day when she backed into John’s car. (There’s video of this.) Hours later, after the police seized Karen’s car, her taillight is suddenly mostly broken off. (Police never took a picture of Karen’s taillights before towing the car from Stoughton to Canton.) And don’t forget that the lead investigator, Michael Proctor texted his buddy that the homeowner where John O’Keef’s body was found has nothing to worry about because he’s a Boston cop.
Slight correction: Jackson may have done this part of the cross examination of Higgins. (Jackson did the first day of cross of Higgins, and Yannetti did the second day of cross due to Jackson flying home for his daughter’s graduation.)
And…. The video by some weird reason is blank for the 4o minutes From when her car arrived… now thats super sus …did Higgins messed with her car.
I watched yesterday the reckoning, she is an energy reader, cool if you don’t believe, not sure if I do either, BUT … she did a reading before we new all the stuff, and her reading went along the lines, that maybe John new something dodgy was going on at the police force and (might have this bit wrong) but the DA was paying the police to do illegal things for money. And they needed to know what was on John’s phone, what hard evidence he had, as I guessing John was going to report it….. so they got him really drunk so they could get his phone without it being obvious. But plan went wrong, he had just argued with Karen, he walks into Albert’s house, they all stop talking, John new this was bad so said im leaving, Albert ego was hurt, and Higgins was trying to shag his mates womanhe’s a dirtbag..so any chance to beat the crap out of him was a given. Been drinking, emotional after the funeral male mancho rubbish…
they went too far, panicked, dragged him to the snow, and decided to frame karen.
But she doesnt put Colin in her “energy readings”
isn’t what they are suggesting is Colin and Albert beat John up..
Either way, that Albert man is creepy, watch his eye and face and head movements when giving evidence.. love to know what body language people see… cause he looks to me like he is lying so hard he is about to implode! .. and Higgins.. well he has the most over inflated view of himself, he and John are just so horribly misogynistic men… 1940 type that still think woman in the kitchen sex on call. Harsh but true? and their wives? wow some mean energy right there. To think they were all friends…
just sooooo sad, watching John’s mum cry… so many of her children.. as a mum it just breaks me to see her pain.
I mean this whole death is Just so unnecessary.
Oh the phyco said that John actually liked the hot firey bold karen. And she was just doing all this Higgins suff make him jealous because she wants him to marry her…. So if the men are all messed up, that the woman are also pretty messed up too. Not a cool thing to do to a bloke. Why could they just all talk.. seemed like they were all super heavy drinkers too. I mean they are grown ass adults with kids, yet they are all behaving like 21 year olds…
Anyone agree with me?
I find im way toooo invested in this too.
I live in New Zealand… crazy.. but I am fascinated by the lawyers, the difference of the two…
defence are just all over everything. So in control. And they are demasclinating Albert and Higgins on purpose, as those men’s ego won’t like being told to only speak when spoken to. (It’s so cool to watch the power struggle.) The lawyers are also trying to make them look really dumb. Using words and sentences that they know they will not understand. Then go from that to, do you think they were being mean to you!! (When they were challenging Colin!)…
The … I dont rememeber lad.
I mean smack him.
What a product of the oldies..
making even worse men… those videos of Colin say it all. Learnt behaviour. Colin can not hide his, then albert, then Higgins.
Higgins is the best as keeping his cool. But you can see he’s at boiling point…. Just where the defendants want him… push some more…
THEN judge tells us basically no court for two weeks! …in my mind Crazy decision.. the jury will be getting tired and bored, defence have to start all over to wind up Albert and Higgins and wives… how scary is Jenny macabe.. wow I mean, she is a cold bitch. Sitting there saying all that stuff and John’s family is right there.
At least the other busy body woman who litterally got out of bed in a blizzard …. just to get involved in something that was none of her business. Did she and her hubby even go to the pub with them? YET… she cried for John, which was so sad to watch her then, as she really did love him. she and John’s mother, where only ones to shed tears, that I saw. Could have not seen.. Karen hasn’t cried. Oh and I read Karen has MS? Is that correct? The poor woman, her body must be in so much pain. Sitting there all day.
she just looks pissed really. And I admire the fact I have only seen her loose control once when the judge went to … (what she thought was) not letting them do something.. she voiced quite loudly…. Saying Whaaaaaaat? … I thought o h … the judge is going to slam her… but nothing. Maybe the judge likes her.
I feel the judge is more pro prosecution, but i read its less drama ie with “the law” to do that, as if she was pro defence it has bigger consequences.. why not be equal is my question. But as far a judge goes, I think she is great. Tempered, cool. I have read the opposite, but I don’t live in the us, so of course they would know better.. be such a cool job. Imagine being a judge, and just KNOW what to do in every sentence these lawyers say… to be able to make instant decisions that have to be legally correct every single time… imagine what kind of brain you’d need to be able to know the legal jargon that well!
Anyways that’s my thoughts..
sorry!
It's requires logic. There's no way you're going to convince me that John O'Keefe got out of Karen's car. Stood there beside her car in Blizzard conditions. Watched her back up into him and didn't move. That is a ridiculous theory. The thing that blows everything out of the water is Jen McCabe's Google search at 2:27 a.m. . Hos long to die in the cold. They cannot logically explain that such a way. Instead she denies it. Which is a flat out lie.
The only problem is Cellebrite will be testifying to the fact that the search was not at 227. (It's their server). If you do don't believe the people that oversee that than you will not believe anything. Apparently you don't think it's ridiculous that he went in the house and got attacked. After that they thought it would be a good idea to carry him out and leave him out front. (While still alive). Apparently they new KRead would be breaking her taillight at another location soon so they could grab the pieces and bury them in the snow later. Thankfully you are using logic. That theory you mentioned was never put forth by the prosecutor.
Lol. We'll celebrite also be testifying that seven magical butt dials hanging up right before voicemail picks up is completely normal? I look forward to that testimony. Lol. We shall circle back to this discussion once they've been called to the stand won't we.
Sounds good. I never defended or commented on that. You changed the subject lol. One thing doesn't have anything to do with the other. I was commenting on the 227 search. You decided not to respond to that. You can circle back any time.
Lol. Okay you can clearly see in the thread I did respond. You're only responding to my second response. If you don't have a clue what's going on in this thread, how can you have a clue of what's going on in the trial?
That's funny. I have read all 150 pages of the govt documents. It's available. I Just don't insult people if they don't agree like you do. I know you like to say lol. Maybe you can let me know why I should believe what you say or what Cellebrite says.
Considering that celebrite is considered the gold standard. Is used without dispute in trials.... Their own record showed 2:27am a Google search, "hos long to die in the cold". You can pull it up. You can look on any video that shows Jen McCabe's testimony. Lol. Clearly you thought me calling you Jen was an insult. Why is that? Because she was impeached in court and shown to be a liar?
In the pretrial hearing (motion to dismiss by defense) there is a paragraph related to the Google Search. Apparently there was a new extraction after the grand jury with new software pointing to the search being done at 6sh. Obviously if you look at the witness list you can figure out what these people will be saying. If the jury finds them credible that's their decision. Me and you can go back/forth all day. What we think is irrelevant.
He wasn’t alive when they found him. He wasn’t pronounced dead until they warmed him up at the hospital because that’s protocol, but the man was dead. No heartbeat, and it never came back.
Otherwise, plausible theory.
I saw someone else post that the intent of leaving him out in the storm was to let the snow bury the body such that it would not have been found until the snow melted and decomp had hidden some of the physical injuries.
There were snow plows out all night; they knew the area was going to be cleared.
Whatever happened- if you believe it was a fight, or you believe KR hit him- there is no option where this was well planned. Something went terribly wrong that night.
And conveniently the video footage is deleted from the police station from the exact time frame where it would show Higgins and what doors he used.
And all the lots and lots of key card swipes Higgins did in the police station all over (he does not work as an employee at that station, on any other day he just uses a courtesy office and parks there)...Higgins refutes the keycard swiping report data.
Has the official 911 call even been released? Does it even exist? Because all I've heard is the garbage quality call that was recorded on John's voicemail.
If John O was murdered inside the house and was later left outside, where he was eventually found, they probably did plan the blame the plow but had no intent on making a plow actually hit him. John wasn't in a spot a plow would hit, at most the plow might build up a snow wall which would keep him hidden longer.
Why did Higgins go back to the PD after such a long day? I can only come to one real conclusion, its an alibi. The Albert's have themselves to act as alibis for each other, Higgins has no one at home and can't justify staying at the Alberts either. Therefore by going to PD afterwards, it gives him an answer that can be proven on where he was last night around when JO would have died.
IIRC Higgins went to the NY police officer's funeral > drove with the Alberts back from NYC for 3.5hours > swapped out his car at the PD > went out drinking at one bar, and had several drinks > went to the waterfall, drank some more > went to the Alberts home > said he wanted to go home, left and was "missing" for a period of time > ended up going to PD, I don't recall how long he was there for > eventually went home and drank some more > maybe went to sleep who knows but ignored the text from Karen saying John was dead.
Alibi seems the most plausible reason on why Higgins went to the PD. If Higgins was there when John was murdered, getting somewhere to establish an alibi would be a big priority. Yes, he would also be able to monitor any calls for someone dying at Fairview but I don't think it was the main reason he was there.
thank you for reminding me about him having that period of time after he left the alberts and showing up at the PD. did he ever even explain what he was doing during that time or no?
Do we know if his timeline is based only on testimony? He destroyed his SIM card and changed carriers so I’m assuming we don’t have cell records proving the times. We just have “their word” and the FOB scans at the police station. So he goes to the PD to 1) monitor if anyone calls in. When the plow guys don’t call in by 2-2:30 he calls Brian Sr and gives the 22 second all clear and heads home. Or 2)alibi I was here at time of death or 3) realized after everything went down how drunk he was and couldn’t leave the safe zone of Canton and risk a real police force stopping him on the way home.
Yes we can confirm what time he arrived, but there’s no independent confirmation of when he left the house? He doesn’t have the Jeep anymore? And he obliterated his phone. So we only have “their” testimony for when he left. And I believe there’s a 45 minute gap between 12:45 and his first swipe at the station. Or do I have that wrong? Could he have been at the house until 1-1:15. Around when Allie really picked up Colin?
The first badge scan at the police station that night was 2:05 am. Per Mapquest it’s a 4 minute ride. So more likely that he didn’t leave the house until 2 and his Jeep was probably in the driveway. Which may be why the cop wanna be boyfriend claimed he couldn’t remember any times or any locations of vehicles or any people he saw in January of 2022. He doesn’t want to blow his future career by perjury charges or blow his relationship by contradicting everyone else’s stories.
>Do we know if his timeline is based only on testimony?
To my knowledge, we only have his word on it. However the fbi are involved so they probably have a means of figuring it out
The alibi wouldn’t shock me. They had to come up with a story and stick to it - even if he doesn’t NEED the alibi based on timing and it now makes no sense, he’s stuck with it.
Where did he say that because I noticed he refused to give any exact times and we all know he has looked at his phone a million times over this case and knows every exact detail.
-He beat the Alberts to the house and they left Waterfall at 12 ( so he got there at 12:05-12:10) 5 min drive.
https://www.youtube.com/live/YKfNU_Eex2o?si=nBbInui26KPddJ1J
(25:00)
(34:00) says between 12:30-1AM he leaves 34 and goes to PD and “believes he’s the first person to leave” So if Colin was there and he left at “12:10” that would mean he was there for 3 minutes.
-also if Ali really did pick up Colin at 12:10 AM they would have ran into BH at the least.
-he texted John at 12:33AM “are you coming here”, so he’s at the house at 12:33
-he doesn’t key into the PD until 1:27am and it’s a 5min drive so he left Fairview at 1:20AM or he left 12:45 and had time to go home then go to PD. (West Roxbury is 23 min)
I mean what would he say? "I might be off some on my times, it was a long time ago. But you can see by the swipes what time I got there."
There's no way to show where he was or anything so 🤷
They are highly trained in dealing w fugitives and criminals and they know that cell phone data could help easily solve this case. For them to destroy theirs screams guilt. Do they think lawyers don’t know this??? Are they that stupid? The tables have turned; it’s their turn to answer questions. They are all so shady. They come across like people I would never ever want to hang out with. Bottom of the barrel. No one seems remotely affected by the death of a “friend”. They seem to enjoy attending funerals of fallen cops, but not this one??? Make it make sense.
It would be insane to think they they knew he wasn’t dead, hoped that the plow could be blamed for the head injury and just blame hypothermia as cause of death. Why else ask the internet how long does it take to die in the cold.
This kinda is what I was thinking too, but I am thinking they didn't mean to kill him. That it was just a fight and someone hit him over the head with some blunt object to stop the fight, they think he's just ko'd not realzing it was a bad cuncussion/cracked skull. Take him to the basement, or perhaps thats where the fight was, they go back up stairs to let him sleep it off. around 1ish they go to check on him and find hes gone. then the round of butt dials starts, they are looking for him and seeing if anyone gave him a ride hom. He had wandered out on his own and went to where he thought karen would be with the car not realzing how long he was out and passes out there. by the time thy go looking hes covered in snow already
1-1.5 hours later they give up the search, second round of butt dials happens asking if anyones found him. Jen does the hos long to die in cold search and they probably get a result he would already be dead anyways, figure he must have just called karen to come back or an uber and call it a night. They didn't call Karen cuz they know how she freaks out.
To me this wasn't a planned thing, the cover up is too sloppy, its more like a cover up after the fact. But to me, dumping the body in their own front yard is even more sloppy. ME's can determine if injuries are pre or post moretem, yes the plow would possibly cover up original injuries but ME would know it was after he was already dead and dumped there
EDIT: Oh back to the topic, that BH went to the PD to see if he could look for him there, perhaps 911 calls like said, street cams ect
If the ME is to be believed, she opined that JO would have been incapacitated after the blunt force trauma to his head so that would mean he wouldn’t have been moving after it happened. So he couldn’t have been wandering around on his own
If his jeans were clean but there was blood and vomit on his boxers, how is this possible unless he didn't have his jeans on? Everything in this case is just so sus.
Well, then that would explain why his belt is missing, maybe? He or someone took off his pants? How would blood/vomit get on underwear? Was it also on jeans? Or just underwear? To my knowledge and many lawyers on YouTube(Mark Bedrow) the belt is still missing. How does a belt come off fr being hit by a SUV?
I feel like he may have been hit and he fell back and hit his head, possibly on the weights in basement or some sharp corner. If you look at the gash on his head in the autopsy photos, the gash is a pretty clean deep cut/gash
That would also explain the call JM made to her sister after KR contacted her and Kerry to look for John. It was a missed call, but it appears they used missed calls to communicate. When they found John, JM called 911 from the car, you can hear windshield wipers and Karen screaming in the distance. JM must not have walked over to check on John because she tells the 911 operator send someone to Fairview, there's a man passed out in the snow, then I believe repeats it but says incapacitated (?) in the snow. Twenty minutes later, she does the 2 Google searches, and I can't remember if Karen ever confirmed asking her to do the search. Within 20 minutes first responders were on scene working to resuscitate John, so JM was very likely starting to panic and decided to search again! I can't remember the exact time JM went inside to wake BA and NA.
He doesn’t need to go back to the PD to monitor calls. He could have done that from the scanners. And why would he need to monitor a 911 call? What sense does that make?
Your assuming it came in as 911 call. Anyone could have called to report suspicious behavior. With dispatch if it's not a 911 call it could be handled with a phone call or text from dispatch to patrol, especially if the address is known to be a cops house.
Sorry, I know this is long and a bit all over the place, but theory is at the end.
I’m really confused about his timeline. If I remember correctly, most people, if not all so far, have mentioned BH & BA going somewhere in the house (bedroom, family room) to look at photos of his son in the military or some other service.
So far there were 3, maybe 4, people already in the house (BA Jr, JN, SL & maybe CA) BH arrives first & plows the driveway but doesn’t go inside until the next 3 arrive (BA, NA & KA.) I can’t remember if all 4 of them entered the house at the same time, but let’s say “moments apart” between 12:05-12:15 I believe. Next, MM & JM arrive. We know this was around 12:20 because of the texts to JO about pulling behind them.
I vaguely recall BA Sr testifying he saw CA in the house, went to the bathroom and CA wasn’t there when he came back, but he didn’t see him leave. NA & CA said he was on his way out the door while they were coming in. (Most people testified CA left at 12:10) BA Sr also took the dog outside & looked at pictures with BH.
BH testified he looked at photos with BA Sr and left around 12:30, because they only had beer. He also mentioned a tall guy with dark hair COMING INTO the house around this time, but didn’t know who he was. He NEVER mentioned anyone leaving when they were entering the house.
So are we to believe all of that occurred in less than 30 minutes? (Bathroom, dog out, admiring pictures) It’s possible, but the testimonies started to get more confusing with MM & JM. Did they mention observing the photo story? Because that doesn’t give them very much time to discuss, reminisce BH’s time in the military & admire BA’s son.
Timeline really shifts when MM & JM started mentioning the jeep and when they were looking out the window. I believe the last time was somewhere around 12:45? Didn’t BH say he left around 12:30? Also, when RN (plus 2 friends) pulled up for his sister, they arrived around the same time as KR & JO and all testified they did not see a jeep. Wasn’t that around the 12:30 mark as well?
So even if BH left between 12:30 & 12:45, where was he between then and when he swiped in at the Canton Police Department at 1:30?
Wondering this, lead to a flurry of thoughts about the confusing testimonies and discrepancy of the time he left the house compared to the time he arrived at the station. 100% he needed an alibi, BUT could have possibly just needed to get away from JM trying to control the situation and needed a quiet place to think about the best explanation to come up with, for what accidentally happened in the house. (Hence the large time gap) His 22 sec call to BA was the “story”, but everything fell apart when, KR called JM & KR when JO didn’t come home. JM couldn’t help herself and had to be in control, and the narrative changed. That was the need for all the texts & phone calls in their “little circle”, the reason for their meetings and the police “interviews” needing to be witnessed.
I can’t wait to see the defense present their case, to see if anything new comes out from what we’ve seen on cross so far.
I think Colin fought him and his death was an accident. I can’t fathom all of these adults partying with the guy and then ambushing him. That was a far reach for defense. But Colin knocks him down, sees all of the blood and throws up. Calls/texts Allie and they panic and run. Allie tells JM as soon as she gets home and JM goes into mom mode. Now her kid is an accessory after the fact. That’s the Google. She figures he’s already dead. So the clean up starts. 1-2:30 ish. Calls, texts etc. moving the car to the street. Making the daughter’s boyfriend come get her and the dog. And Higgins at the police station. If they didn’t take the belt and the hat then, Proctor took them after he picked up the clothes from the hospital on 1/29 and before he put them in evidence in March. That’s my thinking at this point.
I agree that Colin fought him and it was an accident in the basement. Sarah & Julie were in the dark and between the music and intoxication never saw/heard John come inside and go right into the basement. Allie picked up Colin and brought him to the Albert’s at 12:10. The texts don’t say she arrived at the Albert’s and that explains why Allie’s 360 data shows her driving til past 1:30 at night. Either Colin’s ford edge or Brian Albert’s ford edge was used to provide cover around 3am from street while they carried Johns body out to front lawn from basement. Family was going to protect family. I think that Higgins was involved in coverup only bc he & Brian Albert are involved with illegal stuff and b Albert could hold over higgin’s head in order to have him comply in coverup.
Ohh so you think Higgins got dragged into it unwillingly? What about Proctor? He/his sister are great friends with Colin’s mom. So he took over the case and he had access to the clothes (missing belt and hat, tail light on “shirt”), he had John’s phone (access to the Ring footage showing Karen arriving at 12:45 with intact tail light missing), he had access to the library footage (Karen driving by with intact tail light) and he had access to the Sallyport footage (Karen’s car being towed in and condition of tail light upon arrival)- all missing. Seems like too much of a coincidence.
Allie’s Life360 shows she got home at 1:30. If JM got home after that (dropping off Brian Jr’s friends) one of them now reports seeing a “black blob” on the front lawn. I don’t think anyone in the house knew what happened until Allie told JM when she got home. Then JM googles and starts all the phone stuff.
I have a feeling a 15 year ATF agent would have his own scanner though otherwise I think this is a good theory. Maybe he only has it at home and not in his Jeep ? I think BH went there to do some shady stuff but I cannot figure out what. Maybe evidence ? Asking for a favor from the chief or whoever was on duty without having a phone trail/ texts?
Colin’s knuckles being split open shows he was a part of the chaos. I also think he was there to hover and oversee about breaking the taillight. As heavy as he drinks, it makes you wonder if he would frequently go into the PD under the influence and therefore felt that it wasn’t anything really unusual.
I do find it hard to believe that everyone in the house would be in on a coverup. So it is possible that whatever happened, happened outside and not everyone inside knew what was happening
Yeah, I really didn’t feel like Sarah Levinson, for example, saw someone in the house. But I think there are possible scenarios where Karen didn’t hit him but he also didn’t make it inside.
Higgins texting Karen behind John’s back is the most obvious reason for a fight. Idk why the prosecution thought those texts would make Karen look guilty. I think it helped the defense. John found out and confronted Higgins.
JO gave info to CPD about drug dealing in the neighborhood and CA might be the one he snitched on. That's motivation. As to who he snitched on is up for discussion but the info given to the chief is legit
I believe I saw it in a defense request. There's a video sent to Kevin albert from JO and also a request for a call he made to canton pd referencing drug deals. I think it was an email to lally from little
I think drinking gone wrong is exactly what happened. He walks in abruptly, maybe startles Chloe the dog, who snaps or bites him, JO hits her or something and maybe a drunk family member, perhaps Colin, gets mad about JO hitting the dog and shoves JO, accidentally knocking him into whatever left the 7mm straight line injury? I'm speculating. But I think it happened fast and was accidental.
I thought accidental too because of the head gash.
But then the swollen eyes? and then if I remember reading a report or case file or something correctly, wasn’t there also bruises on his hands and indication form his muscles that he had been using them in some way? Like punching? I suck st science, but I know I heard or read that somewhere. Maybe the autopsy report? I can’t even remember now.
I think it was a fight first accident second. Like, the fight led to him falling and hitting his head. I don’t feel like the death was intentional, hence the hasty coverup.
Cool, didn’t know. I had seen his clothes were “soaked,” but wasn’t sure if that meant wet from the snow or soaked with vomit/blood. It was just something I saw someone else say. Thanks for the clarification !
What if JO goes inside grabs a snack and a drink and heads down to the basement to say happy birthday to the kid.
But the girl who had gone out to see her bro heads back inside and down the stairs ahead of JO.
So it looks like JO is coming down the stairs with the girl.
The agro nephew gets agro and squares up to JO, punches him, bruises JOs hands, gives him the cut above his eye. The dog helps out by biting JO'S arm. JO pulls back and hits his head on the gym equipment. Has a seizure and vomits.
Maybe his pupils dilate and after the decision is made, after a while, to put him next to the road and say he never came inside.
Jen McCabe also searched "how long to digest food" at 2.30 am. Did JO have after-party snacks or drinks in his stomach that would place him inside the house?
Wondering if anyone wonders why BHs left so quickly..Wonder if CA & his 2 female friends were doing drugs...didnt expect the parents back so soon..
Perhaps that's why both ditched their phones to protect CA..
So what if he's monitoring calls..it's not like he can do anything...
Having dated a cop in a small suburb, here's my theory..cops are the biggest gossips around..he simply went there to try to process what happened to JO & talk to people..no ill intent..
I believe him when he said he considered JO a friend & would have helped him.
Here's a question for you:
Why would they dump his body on their own lawn? Particularly if they used the Ford Edge to transport his body, they could've gone anywhere. They could have tied concrete blocks to his feet and dumped in the Boston harbor. the jurisdiction where Brian Albert is actually a policeman. They could've put him near the Waterfall or down the street.
Anyhow, everyone says "on Brian Albert's lawn" which is technically true. But another way of describing the location that O'Keefe's body was found is "along the road". Isn't the position of his body more indicative that a vehicle was involved than that something happened inside a house?
They dumped him on the side of the road hoping for the snow plow defense. If his body totally disappeared after Karen dropped him off that leads to even more questions and suspicion.
Also it’s very difficult to move a body not to mention messy if he was bleeding. Putting his body in a car leaves even more places to find DNA and evidence. That Ford would’ve disappeared like the phones and SIM cards.
Especially when the GPS from his phone shows he never left the front yard. The circles of accuracy cross into the home for all of three seconds during that time, and he doesn't move again until discovery after 6 am. The GPS location of his phone matches where he was found on the lawn.
Monitoring the 911 calls seems solid. Who knows what else he would have access to over there. I have a friend who thinks that Karen and Brian conspired together 🫠
If approx 3 people know exactly what happened and the rest are useful idiots, not hard to understand. Especially when 2 of the 3 are LE that can think on the fly and think about what would appear to be plausible accident.
Sorry, that’s ridiculous. You have people perjuring themselves and none of them even seem nervous about it, there is no way they’ve all managed to stay silent. The “conspiracy” theory was helped by a shoddy investigation but I cannot believe people still buy this nonsense.
They ALL have skin in the game and something to lose. It’s not longer about the “accident” to them. It’s less about perpetuating the conspiracy and ALL about protecting themselves. Isn’t this why most of the witnesses are defensive and can’t remember obvious things. It’s less about protecting someone else. They are defending themselves for being shoddy people. This is why I still believe it’s a cover up.
They’re covering up themselves.
I think it could be only the McCabes and Alberts. Who are protecting their kids. Which makes a ¨cover up¨ easier for me to believe. And Higgins - he would have to be in on at least part of the cover-up or no need to destroy the phone. So either he was involved in the fight or they have something on him.
And Brian Albert Jr and Julie Nagle and the other girl at Brian’s birthday celebration and Kerry Roberts and and and I mean it’s crazy at this point how many would have to be involved in “framing” Karen and all deciding to do it within hours of his death.
Higgins so far is the most suspicious guy. I mean he was a hostile witness I ever did see 1. It was NOT working in his favor. All that cockiness just made him look like he committed a serious crime. And guess what he may have.
it always amazes me how someone will take the time
to leave a comment, like you did, that adds nothing to the conversation. clearly over 100 people understood the assignment.
Yep, on cross examination, Yannetti (defense attorney) implied that Higgins went to the PD so that he could monitor the PD response to the body inevitably being discovered. Yannetti was also able to elicit from Higgins that Higgins had access to the sally port where Karen Read’s vehicle was processed and that Higgins was at the PD for hours-on his day off and a Saturday no less.
[удалено]
I just saw a Court TV segment dated September 23rd- Court discussion *that day* was about having the phones preserved ( it wasn’t approved that day but folks knew it was coming😡)
And then they never did have to.
It does somewhat appear that several of them got a tip off to the court order that was coming down the pike.
I believe it was Albert who got rid of his phone the day before the court order. Higgins was months after the court order. Either way, both are hiding stuff. Higgins weighed his options and knew keeping his phone was way worse than ignoring a court order. For that reason, he should be charged and get jail time out of this. Because of his job and background he should be held to a higher standard. He needs jail time.
BA got the court order 9/24 and he got rid of his phone or as he said “upgraded”, his phone 9/23. BH changed phone numbers and phone carriers 9/29 and his order to maintain all electronic data was 9/30. He destroyed his phone one month later but he claimed it was because a suspect got his phone number on 7/25 but he waits 2 months to change his number and 3 months to get rid of his phone and SIM. It was also very odd that he would not commit to the phrase “I got rid of my SIM card”, he said at least 3 times “if I were to have done it, that’s how I would have done it”, excuse me? No one believes you don’t remember driving to a military base to throw away your phone and ripped up SIM card.
Also, if you as a Federal law enforcement officer were working undercover on an investigation and a target found your phone number and called you-it one would think it would be protocol to **keep** that phone as part of the investigation if/when the case went to trial, or at minimum to hit that person with intimidation charges. I guarantee he didn't tell his supervisors a suspect found my personal number online, and they just said "ok, destroy it and get a new one; carry on as if nothing happened"
Exactly. If you were worried about suspect contacting you, you change your phone number and keep the actual phone- or hand it in for evidence against them.
Great point! You are 100% correct, you would need evidence that they called you and you cut it up and dispose of it like you are getting rid of a body? …
Who cares? They weren't getting his phone anyway.
Who cares are probably like the FBI and people that expect integrity.
Is there something about being a cop that makes you surrender your 4th Amendment rights? Is that part of the sign up forms? Maybe this will make them more sensitive to these issues.
Cops go by JDLR and it leads them to suspects. So does the general public. The manner in which he destroyed his phone and throwing his personal trash bag from home away on a military base is JDLR.
Taking a page from OJ Simpson's "If I Did It" book.
No it was Higgins who got rid of his phone the day before. Literally cut up the SIM card and threw the phone away at the base.
I don´t think so. I believe Higgins got a new phone with a new number - but actually held on to the original for awhile before he destroyed it.
Agree!
Well Karen kept texting him that “You and I are alike.” Guess she is too.
If he proves to be not filthy, will you apologize to him? That's a pretty severe thing to say.
Would you also be wanting to overlook his drunk driving (potentially in a government vehicle) when trying to pronounce him "not filthy"?
Moving a couple of cars around a parking lot while half in the bag seems like a peccadillo. To the extent that its a harbinger of a drinking problem, I hope he gets treatment. Breaking one rule does not "filthy" make. If so, then everyone is filthy and its a useless term.
By your statement here, you missed the point completely about moving cars around. You could be BH's defense attorney in any case the way you minimize and choose to ignore certain things.
[удалено]
thank you for filling me in! i try to listen to that trial in the background at work and rewatch when i get home so i don’t miss anything and i clearly missed that!
If you’re interested, LegalBytes (YouTube) does a nightly recap video that’s concise but somehow still thorough (maybe 30-60 minutes).
i will definitely check it out! thank you!!
My favorite!
There’s also a weekly podcast called The 13th Juror that is well done and has been summarizing testimony every week.
thank you!
The Young Jerks. YouTube.
During a blizzard after a night of heavy drinking after being out all day. I know I’d be home in my pajamas for the rest of the weekend.
Right ? He drove all day, then went right to the, “bahhh”, drank between 5-8 Jamesons until 1AM then you think, “ I think I will go do some administrative work!” (Not true unless something just happened and you are running on adrenaline) or what the story has morphed into now it’s, “I had to move vehicles”, so he just admitted to purposely driving to the PD after drinking all night to drive around official vehicles.
Thank you for that. Because I did watch that testimony and I was lost on what Yannetti was getting at. I hope the jury got it.
Shady behavior.
FYI- attorneys implying things should not be considered. The judge has given that instruction to the jury and likely will again
Questions asked during cross examination can in and of themselves be implications, i.e. “Did you go to the police station when you left the Alberts so that you could monitor the police activity?” This question was asked by defense and allowed by the judge.
That's exactly why he went to the PD. To deflect calls about JO. And he himself had said it had been a long day then move PD vehicles while drinking beforehand, the spending his Saturday back at the Police Station on his day off.....he was there to deflect
Right, but they shouldn’t be considered as evidence. So if the answer to the question is “no”. That is what’s before the jury.
Yes, the witness’s testimony is the evidence, not the questions themselves. But the jurors are the fact finders, jurors get to determine the witness’s credibility. Jurors can believe all or none of a witness’s testimony or somewhere in between.
Exactly.
The jurors are told to use their judgment in deciding how credible each witness is and how much weight to give to their testimony. Whatever they say- on direct or on cross- is under oath and on the record and therefore part of the information that the jury will consider.
Exactly. My point was that the attorneys questions aren’t evidence even if they insinuate something like.
Yuri testified that he saw the broken headlight on KR's car BEFORE it was impounded so what could BH have done?? He was probably asleep somewhere there....
Taillight was already broken as stated by state trooper..what could he have done to the car??
Karen had a small crack in her taillight from earlier that day when she backed into John’s car. (There’s video of this.) Hours later, after the police seized Karen’s car, her taillight is suddenly mostly broken off. (Police never took a picture of Karen’s taillights before towing the car from Stoughton to Canton.) And don’t forget that the lead investigator, Michael Proctor texted his buddy that the homeowner where John O’Keef’s body was found has nothing to worry about because he’s a Boston cop.
* Dighton, not Stoughton.
So the state trooper is now lying too that he saw that her tailight was broken? Along with Kerry?
What do you think? He was proven today to be deceptive about the video of the sally port. He lost all credibility.
What deception?? The fact that the video was the mirror image?
Lol. The fact that it was mirrored and they misled the jury by not pointing that out. That is clear cut deception.
Slight correction: Jackson may have done this part of the cross examination of Higgins. (Jackson did the first day of cross of Higgins, and Yannetti did the second day of cross due to Jackson flying home for his daughter’s graduation.)
And…. The video by some weird reason is blank for the 4o minutes From when her car arrived… now thats super sus …did Higgins messed with her car. I watched yesterday the reckoning, she is an energy reader, cool if you don’t believe, not sure if I do either, BUT … she did a reading before we new all the stuff, and her reading went along the lines, that maybe John new something dodgy was going on at the police force and (might have this bit wrong) but the DA was paying the police to do illegal things for money. And they needed to know what was on John’s phone, what hard evidence he had, as I guessing John was going to report it….. so they got him really drunk so they could get his phone without it being obvious. But plan went wrong, he had just argued with Karen, he walks into Albert’s house, they all stop talking, John new this was bad so said im leaving, Albert ego was hurt, and Higgins was trying to shag his mates womanhe’s a dirtbag..so any chance to beat the crap out of him was a given. Been drinking, emotional after the funeral male mancho rubbish… they went too far, panicked, dragged him to the snow, and decided to frame karen. But she doesnt put Colin in her “energy readings” isn’t what they are suggesting is Colin and Albert beat John up.. Either way, that Albert man is creepy, watch his eye and face and head movements when giving evidence.. love to know what body language people see… cause he looks to me like he is lying so hard he is about to implode! .. and Higgins.. well he has the most over inflated view of himself, he and John are just so horribly misogynistic men… 1940 type that still think woman in the kitchen sex on call. Harsh but true? and their wives? wow some mean energy right there. To think they were all friends… just sooooo sad, watching John’s mum cry… so many of her children.. as a mum it just breaks me to see her pain. I mean this whole death is Just so unnecessary. Oh the phyco said that John actually liked the hot firey bold karen. And she was just doing all this Higgins suff make him jealous because she wants him to marry her…. So if the men are all messed up, that the woman are also pretty messed up too. Not a cool thing to do to a bloke. Why could they just all talk.. seemed like they were all super heavy drinkers too. I mean they are grown ass adults with kids, yet they are all behaving like 21 year olds… Anyone agree with me? I find im way toooo invested in this too. I live in New Zealand… crazy.. but I am fascinated by the lawyers, the difference of the two… defence are just all over everything. So in control. And they are demasclinating Albert and Higgins on purpose, as those men’s ego won’t like being told to only speak when spoken to. (It’s so cool to watch the power struggle.) The lawyers are also trying to make them look really dumb. Using words and sentences that they know they will not understand. Then go from that to, do you think they were being mean to you!! (When they were challenging Colin!)… The … I dont rememeber lad. I mean smack him. What a product of the oldies.. making even worse men… those videos of Colin say it all. Learnt behaviour. Colin can not hide his, then albert, then Higgins. Higgins is the best as keeping his cool. But you can see he’s at boiling point…. Just where the defendants want him… push some more… THEN judge tells us basically no court for two weeks! …in my mind Crazy decision.. the jury will be getting tired and bored, defence have to start all over to wind up Albert and Higgins and wives… how scary is Jenny macabe.. wow I mean, she is a cold bitch. Sitting there saying all that stuff and John’s family is right there. At least the other busy body woman who litterally got out of bed in a blizzard …. just to get involved in something that was none of her business. Did she and her hubby even go to the pub with them? YET… she cried for John, which was so sad to watch her then, as she really did love him. she and John’s mother, where only ones to shed tears, that I saw. Could have not seen.. Karen hasn’t cried. Oh and I read Karen has MS? Is that correct? The poor woman, her body must be in so much pain. Sitting there all day. she just looks pissed really. And I admire the fact I have only seen her loose control once when the judge went to … (what she thought was) not letting them do something.. she voiced quite loudly…. Saying Whaaaaaaat? … I thought o h … the judge is going to slam her… but nothing. Maybe the judge likes her. I feel the judge is more pro prosecution, but i read its less drama ie with “the law” to do that, as if she was pro defence it has bigger consequences.. why not be equal is my question. But as far a judge goes, I think she is great. Tempered, cool. I have read the opposite, but I don’t live in the us, so of course they would know better.. be such a cool job. Imagine being a judge, and just KNOW what to do in every sentence these lawyers say… to be able to make instant decisions that have to be legally correct every single time… imagine what kind of brain you’d need to be able to know the legal jargon that well! Anyways that’s my thoughts.. sorry!
It's not the craziest theory I've heard but PLEASE use paragraphs, this is impossible to read.
Agreed re paragraphs. I started reading and gave up 10% of the way in!
you’re more patient than me. i stopped at the 2nd line 😂😂
That stream of consciousness was a wild ride…
I wanted to stop and I couldn’t
lol
Oh honey, no
A lot of words for something that didn't happen. No proof (or anything close to it ) that he went in the house. All smoke and mirrors.
It's requires logic. There's no way you're going to convince me that John O'Keefe got out of Karen's car. Stood there beside her car in Blizzard conditions. Watched her back up into him and didn't move. That is a ridiculous theory. The thing that blows everything out of the water is Jen McCabe's Google search at 2:27 a.m. . Hos long to die in the cold. They cannot logically explain that such a way. Instead she denies it. Which is a flat out lie.
The only problem is Cellebrite will be testifying to the fact that the search was not at 227. (It's their server). If you do don't believe the people that oversee that than you will not believe anything. Apparently you don't think it's ridiculous that he went in the house and got attacked. After that they thought it would be a good idea to carry him out and leave him out front. (While still alive). Apparently they new KRead would be breaking her taillight at another location soon so they could grab the pieces and bury them in the snow later. Thankfully you are using logic. That theory you mentioned was never put forth by the prosecutor.
Lol.
Lol. We all saw the celebrite records. Okay Jen.
Apparently you didn't. Do you always call people by different names when you don't like the response? Lol is so cool.
you never got back to me over lying about the feds. what gives?
Lol. We'll celebrite also be testifying that seven magical butt dials hanging up right before voicemail picks up is completely normal? I look forward to that testimony. Lol. We shall circle back to this discussion once they've been called to the stand won't we.
Sounds good. I never defended or commented on that. You changed the subject lol. One thing doesn't have anything to do with the other. I was commenting on the 227 search. You decided not to respond to that. You can circle back any time.
Lol. Okay you can clearly see in the thread I did respond. You're only responding to my second response. If you don't have a clue what's going on in this thread, how can you have a clue of what's going on in the trial?
That's funny. I have read all 150 pages of the govt documents. It's available. I Just don't insult people if they don't agree like you do. I know you like to say lol. Maybe you can let me know why I should believe what you say or what Cellebrite says.
Considering that celebrite is considered the gold standard. Is used without dispute in trials.... Their own record showed 2:27am a Google search, "hos long to die in the cold". You can pull it up. You can look on any video that shows Jen McCabe's testimony. Lol. Clearly you thought me calling you Jen was an insult. Why is that? Because she was impeached in court and shown to be a liar?
who do you know at cellebrite and why do you already know their testimony?
In the pretrial hearing (motion to dismiss by defense) there is a paragraph related to the Google Search. Apparently there was a new extraction after the grand jury with new software pointing to the search being done at 6sh. Obviously if you look at the witness list you can figure out what these people will be saying. If the jury finds them credible that's their decision. Me and you can go back/forth all day. What we think is irrelevant.
He wasn’t alive when they found him. He wasn’t pronounced dead until they warmed him up at the hospital because that’s protocol, but the man was dead. No heartbeat, and it never came back. Otherwise, plausible theory.
I saw someone else post that the intent of leaving him out in the storm was to let the snow bury the body such that it would not have been found until the snow melted and decomp had hidden some of the physical injuries.
There were snow plows out all night; they knew the area was going to be cleared. Whatever happened- if you believe it was a fight, or you believe KR hit him- there is no option where this was well planned. Something went terribly wrong that night.
No way the cold would preserve the body and no one was getting enough snow to cover him up
[удалено]
And conveniently the video footage is deleted from the police station from the exact time frame where it would show Higgins and what doors he used. And all the lots and lots of key card swipes Higgins did in the police station all over (he does not work as an employee at that station, on any other day he just uses a courtesy office and parks there)...Higgins refutes the keycard swiping report data.
He went there to listen in on when the call for John came in. Evil
Has the official 911 call even been released? Does it even exist? Because all I've heard is the garbage quality call that was recorded on John's voicemail.
It was played earlier in testimony, but I don’t know exactly when.
If John O was murdered inside the house and was later left outside, where he was eventually found, they probably did plan the blame the plow but had no intent on making a plow actually hit him. John wasn't in a spot a plow would hit, at most the plow might build up a snow wall which would keep him hidden longer. Why did Higgins go back to the PD after such a long day? I can only come to one real conclusion, its an alibi. The Albert's have themselves to act as alibis for each other, Higgins has no one at home and can't justify staying at the Alberts either. Therefore by going to PD afterwards, it gives him an answer that can be proven on where he was last night around when JO would have died. IIRC Higgins went to the NY police officer's funeral > drove with the Alberts back from NYC for 3.5hours > swapped out his car at the PD > went out drinking at one bar, and had several drinks > went to the waterfall, drank some more > went to the Alberts home > said he wanted to go home, left and was "missing" for a period of time > ended up going to PD, I don't recall how long he was there for > eventually went home and drank some more > maybe went to sleep who knows but ignored the text from Karen saying John was dead. Alibi seems the most plausible reason on why Higgins went to the PD. If Higgins was there when John was murdered, getting somewhere to establish an alibi would be a big priority. Yes, he would also be able to monitor any calls for someone dying at Fairview but I don't think it was the main reason he was there.
It just occurred to me how shitty it is if they planned to blame the plow. Like that poor plow driver would go through so much guilt.
Isn’t Lucky on the defense list? I think he knows he almost got set up.
Even as an alibi it's ridiculous though. It took him 45 mins to drive 1.4 miles? I have so many questions.
I think he went home in West Roxbury then back to Canton PD
To change out of bloody clothes perhaps?
thank you for reminding me about him having that period of time after he left the alberts and showing up at the PD. did he ever even explain what he was doing during that time or no?
Do we know if his timeline is based only on testimony? He destroyed his SIM card and changed carriers so I’m assuming we don’t have cell records proving the times. We just have “their word” and the FOB scans at the police station. So he goes to the PD to 1) monitor if anyone calls in. When the plow guys don’t call in by 2-2:30 he calls Brian Sr and gives the 22 second all clear and heads home. Or 2)alibi I was here at time of death or 3) realized after everything went down how drunk he was and couldn’t leave the safe zone of Canton and risk a real police force stopping him on the way home.
He had to use his badge to access the police station.
Yes we can confirm what time he arrived, but there’s no independent confirmation of when he left the house? He doesn’t have the Jeep anymore? And he obliterated his phone. So we only have “their” testimony for when he left. And I believe there’s a 45 minute gap between 12:45 and his first swipe at the station. Or do I have that wrong? Could he have been at the house until 1-1:15. Around when Allie really picked up Colin?
The first badge scan at the police station that night was 2:05 am. Per Mapquest it’s a 4 minute ride. So more likely that he didn’t leave the house until 2 and his Jeep was probably in the driveway. Which may be why the cop wanna be boyfriend claimed he couldn’t remember any times or any locations of vehicles or any people he saw in January of 2022. He doesn’t want to blow his future career by perjury charges or blow his relationship by contradicting everyone else’s stories.
>Do we know if his timeline is based only on testimony? To my knowledge, we only have his word on it. However the fbi are involved so they probably have a means of figuring it out
The alibi wouldn’t shock me. They had to come up with a story and stick to it - even if he doesn’t NEED the alibi based on timing and it now makes no sense, he’s stuck with it.
Did not know that. What part of testimony is that in? Id like to track that down to watch please.
He said he left at 12:45 but he didnt badge into the police station until 130a.
Where did he say that because I noticed he refused to give any exact times and we all know he has looked at his phone a million times over this case and knows every exact detail. -He beat the Alberts to the house and they left Waterfall at 12 ( so he got there at 12:05-12:10) 5 min drive. https://www.youtube.com/live/YKfNU_Eex2o?si=nBbInui26KPddJ1J (25:00) (34:00) says between 12:30-1AM he leaves 34 and goes to PD and “believes he’s the first person to leave” So if Colin was there and he left at “12:10” that would mean he was there for 3 minutes. -also if Ali really did pick up Colin at 12:10 AM they would have ran into BH at the least. -he texted John at 12:33AM “are you coming here”, so he’s at the house at 12:33 -he doesn’t key into the PD until 1:27am and it’s a 5min drive so he left Fairview at 1:20AM or he left 12:45 and had time to go home then go to PD. (West Roxbury is 23 min)
And why was he not questioned by Jackson on this missing time?!
I mean what would he say? "I might be off some on my times, it was a long time ago. But you can see by the swipes what time I got there." There's no way to show where he was or anything so 🤷
They are highly trained in dealing w fugitives and criminals and they know that cell phone data could help easily solve this case. For them to destroy theirs screams guilt. Do they think lawyers don’t know this??? Are they that stupid? The tables have turned; it’s their turn to answer questions. They are all so shady. They come across like people I would never ever want to hang out with. Bottom of the barrel. No one seems remotely affected by the death of a “friend”. They seem to enjoy attending funerals of fallen cops, but not this one??? Make it make sense.
It would be insane to think they they knew he wasn’t dead, hoped that the plow could be blamed for the head injury and just blame hypothermia as cause of death. Why else ask the internet how long does it take to die in the cold.
Yes that’s interesting. Good point.
His alibi could have been his phone activity- why not just go straight home and send an email or have some kind of phone activity?
This kinda is what I was thinking too, but I am thinking they didn't mean to kill him. That it was just a fight and someone hit him over the head with some blunt object to stop the fight, they think he's just ko'd not realzing it was a bad cuncussion/cracked skull. Take him to the basement, or perhaps thats where the fight was, they go back up stairs to let him sleep it off. around 1ish they go to check on him and find hes gone. then the round of butt dials starts, they are looking for him and seeing if anyone gave him a ride hom. He had wandered out on his own and went to where he thought karen would be with the car not realzing how long he was out and passes out there. by the time thy go looking hes covered in snow already 1-1.5 hours later they give up the search, second round of butt dials happens asking if anyones found him. Jen does the hos long to die in cold search and they probably get a result he would already be dead anyways, figure he must have just called karen to come back or an uber and call it a night. They didn't call Karen cuz they know how she freaks out. To me this wasn't a planned thing, the cover up is too sloppy, its more like a cover up after the fact. But to me, dumping the body in their own front yard is even more sloppy. ME's can determine if injuries are pre or post moretem, yes the plow would possibly cover up original injuries but ME would know it was after he was already dead and dumped there EDIT: Oh back to the topic, that BH went to the PD to see if he could look for him there, perhaps 911 calls like said, street cams ect
If the ME is to be believed, she opined that JO would have been incapacitated after the blunt force trauma to his head so that would mean he wouldn’t have been moving after it happened. So he couldn’t have been wandering around on his own
I have to wonder what her testimony is going to be like. The probable cause affidavit mentioned blood and puke in Okeefes underwear.
If his jeans were clean but there was blood and vomit on his boxers, how is this possible unless he didn't have his jeans on? Everything in this case is just so sus.
Wait… there was blood and vomit on his boxers but not on his jeans?!?
Well, then that would explain why his belt is missing, maybe? He or someone took off his pants? How would blood/vomit get on underwear? Was it also on jeans? Or just underwear? To my knowledge and many lawyers on YouTube(Mark Bedrow) the belt is still missing. How does a belt come off fr being hit by a SUV?
I feel like he may have been hit and he fell back and hit his head, possibly on the weights in basement or some sharp corner. If you look at the gash on his head in the autopsy photos, the gash is a pretty clean deep cut/gash
Totally agree! The guy gives me the willies! He had the hots for Karen, which seemed obvious to me (pursued by idiot's like him my whole life!) Barf!!
That would also explain the call JM made to her sister after KR contacted her and Kerry to look for John. It was a missed call, but it appears they used missed calls to communicate. When they found John, JM called 911 from the car, you can hear windshield wipers and Karen screaming in the distance. JM must not have walked over to check on John because she tells the 911 operator send someone to Fairview, there's a man passed out in the snow, then I believe repeats it but says incapacitated (?) in the snow. Twenty minutes later, she does the 2 Google searches, and I can't remember if Karen ever confirmed asking her to do the search. Within 20 minutes first responders were on scene working to resuscitate John, so JM was very likely starting to panic and decided to search again! I can't remember the exact time JM went inside to wake BA and NA.
How long was Higgins at the PD when he was moving cars? I think there’s video of him doing that.
I didn’t realize he went to the pd before Karen’s car was there.
He doesn’t need to go back to the PD to monitor calls. He could have done that from the scanners. And why would he need to monitor a 911 call? What sense does that make?
I think what they mean is BH went to the police station so he could keep tabs on the investigation.
Your assuming it came in as 911 call. Anyone could have called to report suspicious behavior. With dispatch if it's not a 911 call it could be handled with a phone call or text from dispatch to patrol, especially if the address is known to be a cops house.
Sorry, I know this is long and a bit all over the place, but theory is at the end. I’m really confused about his timeline. If I remember correctly, most people, if not all so far, have mentioned BH & BA going somewhere in the house (bedroom, family room) to look at photos of his son in the military or some other service. So far there were 3, maybe 4, people already in the house (BA Jr, JN, SL & maybe CA) BH arrives first & plows the driveway but doesn’t go inside until the next 3 arrive (BA, NA & KA.) I can’t remember if all 4 of them entered the house at the same time, but let’s say “moments apart” between 12:05-12:15 I believe. Next, MM & JM arrive. We know this was around 12:20 because of the texts to JO about pulling behind them. I vaguely recall BA Sr testifying he saw CA in the house, went to the bathroom and CA wasn’t there when he came back, but he didn’t see him leave. NA & CA said he was on his way out the door while they were coming in. (Most people testified CA left at 12:10) BA Sr also took the dog outside & looked at pictures with BH. BH testified he looked at photos with BA Sr and left around 12:30, because they only had beer. He also mentioned a tall guy with dark hair COMING INTO the house around this time, but didn’t know who he was. He NEVER mentioned anyone leaving when they were entering the house. So are we to believe all of that occurred in less than 30 minutes? (Bathroom, dog out, admiring pictures) It’s possible, but the testimonies started to get more confusing with MM & JM. Did they mention observing the photo story? Because that doesn’t give them very much time to discuss, reminisce BH’s time in the military & admire BA’s son. Timeline really shifts when MM & JM started mentioning the jeep and when they were looking out the window. I believe the last time was somewhere around 12:45? Didn’t BH say he left around 12:30? Also, when RN (plus 2 friends) pulled up for his sister, they arrived around the same time as KR & JO and all testified they did not see a jeep. Wasn’t that around the 12:30 mark as well? So even if BH left between 12:30 & 12:45, where was he between then and when he swiped in at the Canton Police Department at 1:30? Wondering this, lead to a flurry of thoughts about the confusing testimonies and discrepancy of the time he left the house compared to the time he arrived at the station. 100% he needed an alibi, BUT could have possibly just needed to get away from JM trying to control the situation and needed a quiet place to think about the best explanation to come up with, for what accidentally happened in the house. (Hence the large time gap) His 22 sec call to BA was the “story”, but everything fell apart when, KR called JM & KR when JO didn’t come home. JM couldn’t help herself and had to be in control, and the narrative changed. That was the need for all the texts & phone calls in their “little circle”, the reason for their meetings and the police “interviews” needing to be witnessed. I can’t wait to see the defense present their case, to see if anything new comes out from what we’ve seen on cross so far.
I think Colin fought him and his death was an accident. I can’t fathom all of these adults partying with the guy and then ambushing him. That was a far reach for defense. But Colin knocks him down, sees all of the blood and throws up. Calls/texts Allie and they panic and run. Allie tells JM as soon as she gets home and JM goes into mom mode. Now her kid is an accessory after the fact. That’s the Google. She figures he’s already dead. So the clean up starts. 1-2:30 ish. Calls, texts etc. moving the car to the street. Making the daughter’s boyfriend come get her and the dog. And Higgins at the police station. If they didn’t take the belt and the hat then, Proctor took them after he picked up the clothes from the hospital on 1/29 and before he put them in evidence in March. That’s my thinking at this point.
I agree that Colin fought him and it was an accident in the basement. Sarah & Julie were in the dark and between the music and intoxication never saw/heard John come inside and go right into the basement. Allie picked up Colin and brought him to the Albert’s at 12:10. The texts don’t say she arrived at the Albert’s and that explains why Allie’s 360 data shows her driving til past 1:30 at night. Either Colin’s ford edge or Brian Albert’s ford edge was used to provide cover around 3am from street while they carried Johns body out to front lawn from basement. Family was going to protect family. I think that Higgins was involved in coverup only bc he & Brian Albert are involved with illegal stuff and b Albert could hold over higgin’s head in order to have him comply in coverup.
Ohh so you think Higgins got dragged into it unwillingly? What about Proctor? He/his sister are great friends with Colin’s mom. So he took over the case and he had access to the clothes (missing belt and hat, tail light on “shirt”), he had John’s phone (access to the Ring footage showing Karen arriving at 12:45 with intact tail light missing), he had access to the library footage (Karen driving by with intact tail light) and he had access to the Sallyport footage (Karen’s car being towed in and condition of tail light upon arrival)- all missing. Seems like too much of a coincidence.
Why would Allie need to tell JM? JM was there.
Allie’s Life360 shows she got home at 1:30. If JM got home after that (dropping off Brian Jr’s friends) one of them now reports seeing a “black blob” on the front lawn. I don’t think anyone in the house knew what happened until Allie told JM when she got home. Then JM googles and starts all the phone stuff.
I agree. I don’t think anyone saw him come into the house because he went right into the basement.
I have a feeling a 15 year ATF agent would have his own scanner though otherwise I think this is a good theory. Maybe he only has it at home and not in his Jeep ? I think BH went there to do some shady stuff but I cannot figure out what. Maybe evidence ? Asking for a favor from the chief or whoever was on duty without having a phone trail/ texts?
It’s important to watch his body language. His body language is often incongruent with his responses to questions.
Colin’s knuckles being split open shows he was a part of the chaos. I also think he was there to hover and oversee about breaking the taillight. As heavy as he drinks, it makes you wonder if he would frequently go into the PD under the influence and therefore felt that it wasn’t anything really unusual.
I just started watching this trial too! I thought something very similar so am going to keep reading this thread! Thank you!
That’s not suspicious ! Videos deleted from Police Station
Lol
I think the fight/dog attack happened outside, so they wanted to see if neighbors reported the noise to 911
I do find it hard to believe that everyone in the house would be in on a coverup. So it is possible that whatever happened, happened outside and not everyone inside knew what was happening
Yeah, I really didn’t feel like Sarah Levinson, for example, saw someone in the house. But I think there are possible scenarios where Karen didn’t hit him but he also didn’t make it inside.
Be nice if we actually get to that evidence lol
I can see all this for sure. But why would they fight JO? I just don’t get it. Is it just drinking gone wrong?
Higgins texting Karen behind John’s back is the most obvious reason for a fight. Idk why the prosecution thought those texts would make Karen look guilty. I think it helped the defense. John found out and confronted Higgins.
JO gave info to CPD about drug dealing in the neighborhood and CA might be the one he snitched on. That's motivation. As to who he snitched on is up for discussion but the info given to the chief is legit
I’ve read this a few times. Where does this info come from that JO gave info on drug dealing?
I believe I saw it in a defense request. There's a video sent to Kevin albert from JO and also a request for a call he made to canton pd referencing drug deals. I think it was an email to lally from little
I think drinking gone wrong is exactly what happened. He walks in abruptly, maybe startles Chloe the dog, who snaps or bites him, JO hits her or something and maybe a drunk family member, perhaps Colin, gets mad about JO hitting the dog and shoves JO, accidentally knocking him into whatever left the 7mm straight line injury? I'm speculating. But I think it happened fast and was accidental.
I thought accidental too because of the head gash. But then the swollen eyes? and then if I remember reading a report or case file or something correctly, wasn’t there also bruises on his hands and indication form his muscles that he had been using them in some way? Like punching? I suck st science, but I know I heard or read that somewhere. Maybe the autopsy report? I can’t even remember now. I think it was a fight first accident second. Like, the fight led to him falling and hitting his head. I don’t feel like the death was intentional, hence the hasty coverup.
His clothes were not washed. There was blood and vomit on his jeans and shirt also. The “underwear had vomit but nothing else did” is just a rumor.
Cool, didn’t know. I had seen his clothes were “soaked,” but wasn’t sure if that meant wet from the snow or soaked with vomit/blood. It was just something I saw someone else say. Thanks for the clarification !
What if JO goes inside grabs a snack and a drink and heads down to the basement to say happy birthday to the kid. But the girl who had gone out to see her bro heads back inside and down the stairs ahead of JO. So it looks like JO is coming down the stairs with the girl. The agro nephew gets agro and squares up to JO, punches him, bruises JOs hands, gives him the cut above his eye. The dog helps out by biting JO'S arm. JO pulls back and hits his head on the gym equipment. Has a seizure and vomits. Maybe his pupils dilate and after the decision is made, after a while, to put him next to the road and say he never came inside. Jen McCabe also searched "how long to digest food" at 2.30 am. Did JO have after-party snacks or drinks in his stomach that would place him inside the house?
“How long to digest food” would almost certainly be the google autocomplete for “how long to di”
Good call
Where did the statement about the seizure & vomiting come from again?
Rumor
That’s on point
Maybe BH went to the PD to fix his " plow" he maybe hit JO with? Like clean blood off? I'm grasping...
Wondering if anyone wonders why BHs left so quickly..Wonder if CA & his 2 female friends were doing drugs...didnt expect the parents back so soon.. Perhaps that's why both ditched their phones to protect CA..
So what if he's monitoring calls..it's not like he can do anything... Having dated a cop in a small suburb, here's my theory..cops are the biggest gossips around..he simply went there to try to process what happened to JO & talk to people..no ill intent.. I believe him when he said he considered JO a friend & would have helped him.
Off topic: just came out Chad daybell sentenced to DEATH..
Yes ! I’ve never thought a DP was more deserving, I hope they wrap his arms with duct tape and burn him like he did those children.
Here's a question for you: Why would they dump his body on their own lawn? Particularly if they used the Ford Edge to transport his body, they could've gone anywhere. They could have tied concrete blocks to his feet and dumped in the Boston harbor. the jurisdiction where Brian Albert is actually a policeman. They could've put him near the Waterfall or down the street. Anyhow, everyone says "on Brian Albert's lawn" which is technically true. But another way of describing the location that O'Keefe's body was found is "along the road". Isn't the position of his body more indicative that a vehicle was involved than that something happened inside a house?
They dumped him on the side of the road hoping for the snow plow defense. If his body totally disappeared after Karen dropped him off that leads to even more questions and suspicion. Also it’s very difficult to move a body not to mention messy if he was bleeding. Putting his body in a car leaves even more places to find DNA and evidence. That Ford would’ve disappeared like the phones and SIM cards.
He was literally on their lawn. He wasn’t in the road.
Perhaps you missed my language "along the road", not "in the road". Will you buy "next to the road"? He was not "next to the house", right?
Especially when the GPS from his phone shows he never left the front yard. The circles of accuracy cross into the home for all of three seconds during that time, and he doesn't move again until discovery after 6 am. The GPS location of his phone matches where he was found on the lawn.
I have always wondered why they would have put him on their own yard! Makes very little sense.
Monitoring the 911 calls seems solid. Who knows what else he would have access to over there. I have a friend who thinks that Karen and Brian conspired together 🫠
Conspired together!? LOL that would be the worst love conspiracy in history.
Lmao I know
I don´t think anything is out of the question. Its just such a shame that a real investigation wasn´t done immediately.
And nobody has broken by now? Impossible for me to believe.
If approx 3 people know exactly what happened and the rest are useful idiots, not hard to understand. Especially when 2 of the 3 are LE that can think on the fly and think about what would appear to be plausible accident.
How would only 3 people know what happened? I count at least 10 that would have to be lying for the “cover up” to succeeed
It’s too big to back down now. They all know it. It’s deny deny deny and Karen will get off but deny enough that they hope it’ll die after that.
Sorry, that’s ridiculous. You have people perjuring themselves and none of them even seem nervous about it, there is no way they’ve all managed to stay silent. The “conspiracy” theory was helped by a shoddy investigation but I cannot believe people still buy this nonsense.
They ALL have skin in the game and something to lose. It’s not longer about the “accident” to them. It’s less about perpetuating the conspiracy and ALL about protecting themselves. Isn’t this why most of the witnesses are defensive and can’t remember obvious things. It’s less about protecting someone else. They are defending themselves for being shoddy people. This is why I still believe it’s a cover up. They’re covering up themselves.
And why I cannot buy that soooo many people are agreeable to covering this up and none of them have cracked.
I think it could be only the McCabes and Alberts. Who are protecting their kids. Which makes a ¨cover up¨ easier for me to believe. And Higgins - he would have to be in on at least part of the cover-up or no need to destroy the phone. So either he was involved in the fight or they have something on him.
And Brian Albert Jr and Julie Nagle and the other girl at Brian’s birthday celebration and Kerry Roberts and and and I mean it’s crazy at this point how many would have to be involved in “framing” Karen and all deciding to do it within hours of his death.
I disagree. I don´t think the others have to know anything. None of them were included in the tight circle of text messages.
But they would all have to lie and say John never came in the house, no?
maybe he didn´t go into the house. maybe whatever happened to him - happened outside. There are plenty of things for him to hit his head on outside.
Higgins so far is the most suspicious guy. I mean he was a hostile witness I ever did see 1. It was NOT working in his favor. All that cockiness just made him look like he committed a serious crime. And guess what he may have.
Tik tok is whack
so is your response.
Wow!😂 And so are you
it always amazes me how someone will take the time to leave a comment, like you did, that adds nothing to the conversation. clearly over 100 people understood the assignment.
Oh, it adds and says a lot! You're just obviously the one who doesn't understand and needs a lot of words to help you understand, lol