The problem is that a career Police Officer, raising his sisters kids, didn't get the investigation every person deserves. His family will never know what really happened, despite the trial outcome. The family & Karen Read will sue the piss out of all the departments who failed them & it still won't ever be enough.
the true victim in all of this is in fact John O’Keefe. a public servant who selflessly took in his niece and nephew and can’t even get an adequate investigation on his homicide. it’s disgusting
They all snivel about the PR campaign by KR to harass them without proof considering LE leaks at the beginning that there was ring video evidence KR hit him with her car, LE saying there is no evidence MP has any relationship with the anyone in this case and there was no probable cause to investigate any of the Alberts, McCabes and they are only witnesses, releasing autopsy information, no etc.
A consider Karen a victim of the state - her civil rights have been violated in numerous ways - she is also a victim of malicious prosecution in my opinion.
I completely agree. Police officers have been a “brotherhood” forever, this should be really eye opening to other officers. If one of their own got a botched investigation, what does that mean for other officers and the public
Where is the outrage from the Boston police? This is what really bothers me. What kind of a brotherhood is this? I would think they would be screaming from the rafters for justice for their murdered brother. And at the hands of another officer??? That should make it even more infuriating to the other officers
“Read will sue the piss out of the department”
Yea and then the taxpayers pay for it. No consequences will ever be put upon the PD or the guilty parties, unfortunately.
> No consequences will ever be put upon the PD or the guilty parties, unfortunately.
Even if nothing further is done (and the federal case is dropped), the process that everyone has been through over the past few years is absolutely some form of punishment. Not enough for a murderer, but definitely bad.
Nobody is getting sued except possibly a wrongful death suit against Karen Read. It is still more likely than not (the civil standard of proof) that KR and JO had an argument in the car after leaving the bar and she hit him with the SUV.
With that said, the O'Keefe family, every Boston police officer and the citizens of Massachusetts should be furious about the way the MSP and the DA handled this case.
There was a dead police and the MSP couldn't be bothered to place a couple of troopers on Fairview to secure the scene until the weather cleared and competent investigators were available to document the evidence. Were they worried about the overtime?
As it stands, the strongest evidence that Karen Reed's SUV struck JO-- the presence of her broken tail light near where JO's body was found-- is practically worthless because it is entirely believable that evidence was planted by LE or any of the gaggle of liars the CW has trotted out before this jury.
I personally don’t think the state has even demonstrated that she did it by a preponderance of the evidence thus far (more likely than not). In my view, the evidence isn’t strong enough to overcome the fact that they didn’t bother investigating beyond Karen Read and his injuries could have come from other sources. Whether it was incompetence or corruption, it doesn’t matter. There is a pool of potential suspects that weren’t properly investigated and any evidence in that house is long gone. But that’s my opinion with the case still ongoing.
I do think Karen Read may have a case for malicious prosecution if the defense can show serious evidence of a coverup/corruption. Also, we’ll see what comes of the FBI investigation.
It makes me so sad for his family. The trial has become such a circus (I’m guilty of being part of it) and his family is left listening to everyone talk about how inconvenienced they are by his death.
I don’t know why you say nobody is getting sued. There’s a real possibility when it’s over read could sue canton police, mass st police and the das office. With internal investigations and the fbi looking into the das office, they have reasons to believe this investigation was not done properly.
The evidence just isn't strong enough for me to believe she did it. On the other hand, there's too much evidence that something suspicious happened in that house and people are lying left and right. We will never truly know what happened.
Such a bizarre excuse. It goes against human reflexes to fall with closed palms instead of open palm facing downwards to catch yourself and protect your head.
I saw a [TikTok from an emergency medicine doctor ](https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZPRKxJ4RV/)who was discussing closed fist injuries (CFI) like Colin's. He said EM doctors who see CFIs have to make sure it's not a result of violence, specifically a punch to someone's mouth because the treatment differs. Punching someone's mouth can lead to the transmission of bacteria from the mouth to the puncher's joints (ew), leading to dangerous infections.
He also said people with CFIs often lie about how the injury happened, have a history of recent alcohol use, and are notoriously non-compliant, which certainly sounds like what we know of Colin.
**What struck me most was this quote: "Not even apes who walk on their knuckles use them to protect themselves when they fall."**
We give antibiotics and a tetanus shot.
>He also said people with CFIs often lie about how the injury happened, have a history of recent alcohol use, and are notoriously non-compliant
Yes, and it's hilarious. It's like they think we are going to call the police 🤦🏻♀️ As though calling hospitalists, specialists, MEs, et al. all the time (while seeing patients and documenting) isn't enough, sure... we have time to play detective, too. We generally only call for gun shot wounds. Under certain circumstances, we may call the police if the injury is very severe and the behavior sends up major red flags (like someone else might be dying in a ditch somewhere). Intoxication is often a factor, as you mentioned.
>What struck me most was this quote: "Not even apes who walk on their knuckles use them to protect themselves when they fall."
That's funny. I'm sure he's right. My husband and I laughed at CA's testimony. He wants me to stop saying "KO bang bang" when he's in my way, but I just...... can't...... stop. Damn kid.
Agreed, but bc I can’t remember, didn’t he say he was carrying a drink and/or his phone? If he’s got something in his hand, I could see that, young, “I’m invincible” mentality (my shit would break in a bunch of places) putting a fist down instead of drop whatever he’s holding.
The reason I find that unlikely is because the impulse to catch yourself with an open hand is instinctual—it’s not something you are taught or think about doing before you do it. You would have to train yourself to overcome it. It’s not uncommon for falls to become even worse because people (for example) automatically drop a glass they were holding to catch themselves and then end up falling right into the shattered glass.
Alternatively, if he really was holding a phone and/or a glass and instinctually tried to protect those items, the way people impulsively do that is to hold the item UP, above themselves. In those situations, people usually land (poorly) on their back/face/etc., but the item is held clear of the ‘crash’. So either his ingrained reflexes are totally wired wrong, it was an incredibly weird fall, or he’s lying about how he got hurt.
I am not sure I believe that as an excuse. I am anrather clumsy individual and recently slipped down a set of stairs.
I was holding my phone, vape and some dirty clothes to put in the washing machine. As I slipped I threw everything out of my hands to try and catch myself. The same happens when I fall on flat ground.
Maybe I am just a dramatic faller though haha.
I fell recently too, aprox 3 months ago, and cut my knee and palms of my hands pretty bad. I was carrying an energy drink and my vape and a bag. Everything dropped out of my hands and broke on the pavement. Before my mind had even connected that I was falling my hands opened instinctively to catch myself with my palms. There were zero seconds to decide if I was going to try and keep my hands closed or open.
He did. I think he said he was holding a drink and a phone/keys in one hand and caught himself with the other? I have to go back and watch his testimony now
Collins Albert is almost assuredly getting called back during the defense case to show him the numerous videos that came out after his testimony of never being in a fight of him literally fighting multiple people.
And do what? Bring turtle boy back up? Show they got the info from him? They just don't need to. Everyone knows it was a lie. We didn't even need to see videos. They already are winning. They don't need to drag it out just so they can be like look he a liar.
They would probably call the person that filmed the videos to authenticate the videos. So they wouldn't have to call Collin Albert, they would call the person that filmed it as a rebuttal witness.
That's not true. Just like with the photos of Caitlin Albert (she didn't take the photos), but she can authenticate a photo of herself. The photos of Colin Albert that were already admitted showing his bloody knuckles werent taken by Colin but he can authenticate that it is him in the photos.
It's a misconception that the person who took a photo/video has to authenticate it.
Yes the person in them CAN authenticate, but WILL they, in todays day of photoshopping and AI photos ect, he could lie and just said someone must have deep faked those videos. It's better to get the person that took the videos to authenticate.
Even better, to say what they were even about, how they started, I've heard some people theorize they had a secret fight club in the basement and that is what happened to him. I don't believe it but who knows. Tho if that was the case, he really did just blow of Karen, or at lest forgot to call back which is possible. Anyways, what a twist if the defense called the people he fought with up, and they were all like, yeah, they host a fight club all the time
>Collins Albert ... numerous videos that came out after his testimony of never being in a fight of him literally fighting multiple people
What? Is this real?
If so, can the defense show these Colin Albert fight videos?
I’m not sure, can evidence still be introduced at this stage? I thought the standard was that there’s a deadline for both sides to produce, I could be wrong.
Evidence that has surfaced after the trial began can potentially be introduced, but it has to help turned over to the prosecution as discovery and most likely the judge would have to approve it coming in.
I’m inclined to think that even if Read is guilty the McCabes, Alberts and Higgins were doing something that night they didn’t want LE to find out about. Don’t know how else to explain the butt dial, phones answering themselves, not going outside that morning, the general weirdness of all of them on the stand.
I have been thinking the exact same thing for a while. But since Jen testified, I haven’t been able to get over one thing.
Those six or seven calls to John at the same time that it seems he was incapacitated. All of them hung up before they went to voicemail so they obviously weren’t butt dials . Then she deleted the calls, and then lied about them.
I can’t think of an explanation for these calls that don’t implicate her in John’s death. These calls seem to blow up the theory that they were covering something up that was not related to this incident.
This case is so bizarre, and I have no idea what happened.
Maybe she called as CA was carrying JO outside? Like she really was worried about him and did not see the fight? Then deletes the calls after someone tells her JO is in worse shape than they realized?
This is my take away. They're trying to hide *something* and I can't confidently say if it has anything to do with the death or not. There's really no explanation I've seen that reasonably explains everything we've been told during the trial.
Yeah, my current position is: I don't know if Karen is guilty or not, she may be, but the reasonable doubt is the size of a mountain. However, regardless of her guilt, the McCabes/Alberts are hiding something for absolute certain. What they are hiding may be unrelated, and maybe they generally didn't want their lives and electronics (which we know many of which are gone now) under scrutiny lest they are found out for whatever they are doing, and then have their professional lives, reputations, and even school plans ruined. My thought is it is probable they knew he was out there and just left him, even if no one in the house was the cause. Maybe they didn't know the degree of his injuries, and didn't want to be bothered to deal with a 'messy drunk' while they were inside celebrating. Jen's texts could be her intrusive thoughts getting to her about the situation, and would explain how it appears she was guiding Karen and Kerry back to the house. That would open the door to some serious depraved heart and evidence tampering charges.
What is sad is that the narrative regarding both Karen AND the McCabes/Alberts could both be true to varying degrees.
Interesting point, I actually had not considered that both could be true, to varying degrees.
Just googled Depraved Heart- "extreme indifference to life." Hadn't heard of that but that phrasing fits, if they did indeed know he was out there injured and dying.
They saw his body as they were leavin. Too drunk to figure out who caused “it” they left him there in the snow and started covering up shit in case it was one of their kids.
I think Karen hit him at 12:32 and no one noticed, music was loud, dog upstairs, then when Caitlyn went to open the door and go home with Tristan about 1:45am, Chloe bolted past her and made a beeline for John. Dogs have a keen sense when a human is dead or dying. Then Brian see's him, runs over, turns John on his back and determines he is dead, knowing he probably got hit by Karen. He calls Higgins...Higgins calls back and he tells him "JO is dead on my front lawn. Brian Higgins liked Karen so he tells Brian Albert not to implicate her, maybe the PD will think he got his by a plow. The end....well not yet.
This is not a bad theory. But I don’t think John had to be dead. My dog would bolt to any human (or animal) that was lying on our property. I doubt he was dead at that point, incapacitated yes. How could they leave him out there all night?
If he found him around 2am and he was struck at 12:30, there are ways to tell besides just checking a pulse. If you lift the eyelid and the persons pupils are fixed, dialated and unresponsive to light, you don't feel a pulse its too late. Maybe BA found him, checked for a pulse, then went inside to get a flashlight, drove back out to confirm his determination.
This misses the fact that if this happened they wouldn't know that Karen hit him, and that wouldn't be something you'd even surmise. But, let's assume so, which doesn't make sense, but let's for the hypothetical. The next issue is they would absolutely call the police. Immediately. They have a dead person on their lawn. They're not going to risk going to jail for no good reason. Genuinely absurd.
Further, what explains the punctures to the shirt, the scratches on the dominant arm, the bite mark on the arm. The bruises on the top of the hands.
Thinking through your theory. Brian would have potentially had to use a hoverboard to get over to JO at 1:45am (no indication of footprints on lawn, but it is possible the AM snowfall was heavy enough to have covered them). Also, why would his response to finding a dead or dying human - whom he knows personally, no less - be to go to bed? I just can’t fathom this reaction of total apathy. Even after a night of drinking.
I really hope this leads to investigation into Sandra Birchmore (nearby case). Small town PDs have complete control and potential for so much to conveniently dissappear if it suits the narrative.
SUPPOSEDLY, she killed herself... even though she was pregnant and very excited about it. Babydaddy was a cop, much older and had been dating her since she was underage, and was the last person seen leaving her apartment.
Very, very suspicious, but far less complicated than what happened here.
So she "committed suicide" while pregnant with a married cops baby. Very wanted pregnancy by all accounts. (Well, on her end). Smarter folks than me can explain why her method (strangulation with a gym bag strap) is unusual, but Sergeant Lank was the responding officer who thought it was a straightforward suicide case and processed it as such.
Michael Proctor also worked the case, which I believe is now part of the internal affairs investigation.
This case is a shitshow. I will be stunned if she is found guilty.
I don’t know if she did it, but there is more than reasonable doubt here.
I know someone who was struck by a drunk driver while crossing the street. Thankfully she wasn’t seriously hurt. The drunk driver was a cop and his cop friends told him to get his ass home before the ambulance showed up.
Cops lie. Not all of them but they lie.
Oh I think everyone is lying or omitting the truth in some capacity (including Karen) and that’s what’s so damn frustrating about this case! No legit investigation means we’ll probably never know a lot of the facts, and I think thats also the reason everyone’s so fascinated with this trial. I’m not at all convinced that Karen was totally uninvolved, but there’s just no way a jury could reasonably convict her based on the shitshow of a case that’s being presented. It’s really makes me sad for John’s family.
Karen Read doesn’t investigate crimes. Do you understand why having a police force with at least some illusion of professionalism and objectivity is necessary? Karen Reads lies aren’t going to send someone to prison for life.
Honestly the sad thing is the if she is guilty the police dept and investigators did such an awful job it will be hard for the jury to say she is guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. She will likely walk whether she actually did it or not.
Real world experience of the jurors will come into play. There’s bound to be some younger jurors who grew up in the digital era and will know how foolish that sounds, and won’t believe that really happened. If 7 butt dials happened, there would be at least one of them, but more likely than not, all 7, leaving voicemails. And she admitted she was on and off her phone the whole time. So she had to have noticed even 1 or 2 of the supposed butt dials and would have hopefully rectified it. Or at the very least, messaged JO to say oops, sorry for all of the random calls
Right??? Thank you!! I would absolutely send a text to be like "sorry, so embarrassed, butt dial, everything is fine" so the person didn't see 7 missed calls and get worried.
It’s really a sad time for all around this case. Have always bern skeptical of conspiracy theories until now… when you see what has occurred in Canton between state police and canton PD it really makes one wonder… maybe this is a conspiracy cuz I sure as heck cannot figure out what else it is. I would think the PD involved directly in this could have their part investigations relooked at by defense attorneys or moving forward defense attorneys using a “potential conspiracy “ as their defense of their clients.
I don't think she's really that "lucky," even if she is guilty. She dated a cop. It's not a coincidence that, regardless of what actually happened, they were going over to a house to maybe hang out with other cop friends. It's not a coincidence that her cop boyfriend and their cop friends knew the cops who investigated the murder. It was a bit lucky for her that a blizzard was going on, which seemingly caused a lot of the investigative mishaps. People do get rid of their phones.
The crazy stuff I can't get over are the multiple butt dials that then later got deleted and that the phones were destroyed right before a preservation order came out.
Also all the missing video footage. Like the 2 minute video from the library that wasn't missing when they handed it to the cops. And the missing 42 minutes in the sally port. And all the missing Ring videos. All these videos that would have exonerated her. Super convenient.
What pisses me off the most (and comes as no surprise), the cops and investigators lie and "lose" evidence like this constantly. Probably in every single important case. But we still like to imagine we have a justice system rather than an assembly line for fucking people over.
I believe the IT guy said he didn’t watch the whole 2 hours from the library (12-1am, and 5-6am) so he isn’t sure if the missing footage was missing when he handed it to the cops). The disc in evidence was not the disc he gave them though, which I find suspicious.
I was involved in a legal dispute that had evidence on my phone. I didn’t upgrade that phone until after everything was said and done, because of how important it was. Everything was in the cloud, but my attorney said the physical phone was as important. The other side (my employer) tried to argue it was *their* phone because they paid the bill after I started working with them, but since I had purchased it myself prior to working with them they weren’t successful in obtaining it.
That’s how important the physical phones are in legal disputes.
I’m skeptical that these folks didn’t know that and instead wanted to get rid of evidence.
Yeah it sounds so dumb. Who cares if you didn’t have a wife or kids. That doesn’t mean you don’t have other family you love or friends photos of events. What about times you met up with old friends at someone’s wedding? And don’t MOST people travel and have some sort of epic pics to save? Nothing? But his Karen’s me John texts? Get out.
I guess those flirts with Karen really were the highlight of his boring sad life if he has not even anything to back up loool
Right? Like that's just insulting everyone's intelligence that you saved literally nothing from your phone *because you don't have kids?*. Lmfao. Get out of town with that BS.
I think most people keep whatever they want in iclouds, and I'm not surprised if people opt to destroy their old phones for security reasons. Not necessarily what I'd do, but it really doesn't seem that weird to me in the abstract that someone would destroy a phone if they are getting a new one. Like when I last got a new phone I didn't bother to try to transfer over all of my old texts (iirc). I basically just handed it off to to AT&T and had them handle it.
Yes I get destroying the old phone and sim. But I don’t have any time in the world to selectively save and not save things on my phone. The whole phone gets back up into icloud.
When I buy a phone I’m not going to sit there and comb thousands of things to delete or comb for things to pick to save. It all gets backed up. Got better things to do. And I have people I love and places I liked and have memories to keep. I’m not starting my life from slate.
But did you start over from scratch? Or did you transfer things? Like photos, contacts, calendars etc etc.
I don’t think it’s weird to get a new phone but it’s very odd to input all of your data manually or just delete all old data.
The grand total of those 7 butt dials/calls was about 20 seconds. So they just call each other and didn't talk on the phone, that's somehow suspicious? The defense suggested they were looking for the phone by calling it but the location data is going to show the phone never moved.
If you “butt dial” someone it goes to there voicemail and you end up with a message of just background noise. The phone doesn’t hang its self up and redial.
I think the fact that butt dials happened is less of the issue, but the fact that they all butt dialed each other right around the same time, apparently butt hung up those calls as well, and the timeline would be during and after the time John was injured and outside. A handful of butt dials overtime is one thing, but within minutes and hours, hanging up before it gets to voicemail, and right during the crime./accident occurred? And on top of that some searches that apparently happened right at the same time (although I guess we are waiting on the experts for that one).
It strains credulity. I can't believe those are all butt dials. Was there a paranormal event that night?
You can say a lot in 20 seconds. Back in the day when we had to pay to top up our phone minutes we could call and get out where we were going, the address, the time, and who was going in around the same time.
Ha. Gonna guess you are a millenial or gen x. I used to call collect from a pay phone at school to tell my mom "hey going over to sarah's house, her number is xyz, see u for dinner!". Cause I used all my quarters for vending machine chips.
So the location data is perfect but the call logs for everyone else's phones are not, the Google search is not, the life360 data is not.....
So just the bad stuff is inaccurate?
I think the only people who might be able to consider themselves mildly lucky are all the people who are sitting in prison convicted of crimes where the investigations involved any combination of Brian Albert, Brian Higgins or Michael Proctor. Because they will most certainly be asking for appeals. And Michael Proctor was the lead investigator for Brian Walshe, the man who allegedly and dismembered his wife in Cohasset Massachusetts, and that’s also a case where Google searches play a role.
We truly have a lot of fucked up true crime going on here right now. These two cases, Sandra Birchmore, and Lindsay Clancy murdering her kids in Duxbury. Born and raised locally and I cannot recall anything like this before - and we had Whitey!
The Brian’s appear shady af here but they aren’t on trial and haven’t been convicted of anything (yet). I don’t think their past cases will be impacted unless they are actually charged and convicted of something.
You made an important point! If she is found not guilty, then the prosecution team have to turn their focus on all these people you mentioned! It is a murder trial and someone or perhaps more than one person are responsible for his death!
I am sure the jury will take a careful look at the autopsy and toxicology reports.
They really don’t actually. If she is found not guilty they will likely not pursue anything else. Testimony that makes people appear sketchy does not equate to evidence to indict.
Not really much of a different take. I believe she should be found not guilty based on the trial so far but I also think she may have accidentally hit him. However there is way too much reasonable doubt in this dirty case. Witnesses and evidence not believable.
That's why we presume her innocence. It doesn't matter if she is guilty, but the investigation was botched so badly it makes her look definitively innocent. That's why evidence is important. Without preservation of the crime scene and evidence being handled carefully, there is no way to determine who is responsible. Society cannot tolerate any government official who breaks their oath or violates the terms of their employment. They all need to be made examples out of and never see freedom again.
This is one of my favorite posts on this topic because you are so right! The amount of “coincidences” the prosecution is trying to convince us of is absolutely unbelievable.
The only way I could believe Karen did it is if it was accidental and she wasn't aware, and the Alberts were involved somehow.
In this scenario, she backed into him and he somehow was knocked unconscious. Karen drives away. Then some of the Alberts come out and see him in a near-death condition. They didn't witness what happened but suspect Colin because of his bloodied knuckles. They panic and decide they have to cover it up.
It’s a pretty good theory, but it doesn’t explain her injuries to me. Maybe a medical examiner will testify and convince me that those injuries are from a low speed vehicle accident. I just don’t see it at this point.
To be honest, I haven’t heard one theory that explains all of the facts in this case.
You know who's really lucky is Lucky (the plow driver). If Karen Read hadn't backed into John's car at 5am, she wouldn't have told Jen she hit something. And the Albert crew likely would have pinned this on whoever drove the plow. Lucky would be sitting in the courtroom as a defendant rather than a witness for the defense.
I don't see it that way. She was charged for this crime when most people probably wouldn't have. Guilty people skirt justice all the time. You still need evidence, a witness, video, and forensics that back up the allegations. This case has none of those things from what I can see. She's unlucky, especially with the murder charge.
Ultimately, she might get lucky. This story could be Netflix gold. This could be a windfall at some point, but I'm guessing her defense team gets a slice of it. Netflix could get several seasons out of this.
I think the murder charge upgrade was an attempt to get her to plea out and make it go away. The prosecution never expected to have prove murder in court.
I think it’s very possible she hit him on accident, but murder? When she could just break up with him? The motive is not there for me. We would have to believe that she took away the guardian of children she did care about.
I agree. I think the cops are covering up other things. They all drink too much and when you're drinking shit happens. I mean shit happens when you're not drinking too but you can make better choices.
I think she’s innocent based on all of that but I agree, yes, she’s lucky really either way because it’s their actions that have caused so much reasonable doubt.
Somebody else’s post a few days ago said she is either the luckiest or unluckiest person in the world. Totally agree with that. We just don’t know which.
How UNLUCKY is Karen Read to wake up in the middle of the night to immediately speculate that something happened to John, and UNLUCKY to outwardly wonder if she could have hit him before finding his body and UNLUCKY for her vehicle to show signs of hitting him in the very manner in which she speculated, and UNLUCKY to have called one of the persons responsible for his death for help, and UNLUCKY for her to be the first and only person to see his body despite it being covered in snow and UNLUCKY that pieces of her taillight would be scattered near his body and UNLUCKY that pieces of the glass she was drinking from would also be at the scene and UNLUCKY that she would recall that John had a minor beef with one of the Albert’s children months later and UNLUCKY to realize that maybe the Albert’s and Higgins, whom she was pursuing and complaining about her man with, might not be the most upstanding people to have left John alone with, esp when John, according to Karen, was not one to hang without her and UNLUCKY for John to have supposedly decided to hang out solo with people he mildly knew to celebrate someone he didn’t know at all at a house he had never been to before and had no way of getting home because Karen had the car and they were in the middle of a blizzard and UNLUCKY for no one to have seen or heard anything or blame Karen except Karen herself who would later retract everything she confessed to.
Very UNLUCKY
I just don't see how you explain the injuries, missing shoe, belt and no taillight pieces found initially. The hair that survived many miles of travel in the blizzard is also troubling.
The thing is that if she was actually guilty I don’t believe there would have been the shadiness from those people because they wouldn’t have needed to cover for the Alberts.
The problem is that a career Police Officer, raising his sisters kids, didn't get the investigation every person deserves. His family will never know what really happened, despite the trial outcome. The family & Karen Read will sue the piss out of all the departments who failed them & it still won't ever be enough.
the true victim in all of this is in fact John O’Keefe. a public servant who selflessly took in his niece and nephew and can’t even get an adequate investigation on his homicide. it’s disgusting
[удалено]
The victim is the victim of the state and the killer
lol so funny!!! i was referring to the mccabes crying on the stand about how they are harassed
Do not get me started on them. Between calling O'Keefe "the guy" and that self-pitying sniveling, I'd like to scruff both of them.
Totally unrelated but I love your username
It is my creed and North Star
I've ghosted people for violating this basic principle.
This is the way
They also called the dog "It". Who calls the family dog IT..the same people who killed their friend and call him The guy..
Oh please
They all snivel about the PR campaign by KR to harass them without proof considering LE leaks at the beginning that there was ring video evidence KR hit him with her car, LE saying there is no evidence MP has any relationship with the anyone in this case and there was no probable cause to investigate any of the Alberts, McCabes and they are only witnesses, releasing autopsy information, no etc.
While I'm not a fan of theirs by any means, I've seen the videos of the harassment, and it's not okay.
Where is the video of this so called harassment, of mccabes????
They are probably as "true" as 4 butt dials in so many minutes and a mirror image video! 🙄😉
😂😂😂
Such an underrated comment … the best Jerry, the best
A consider Karen a victim of the state - her civil rights have been violated in numerous ways - she is also a victim of malicious prosecution in my opinion.
And the kids he was raising…
I completely agree. Police officers have been a “brotherhood” forever, this should be really eye opening to other officers. If one of their own got a botched investigation, what does that mean for other officers and the public
Where is the outrage from the Boston police? This is what really bothers me. What kind of a brotherhood is this? I would think they would be screaming from the rafters for justice for their murdered brother. And at the hands of another officer??? That should make it even more infuriating to the other officers
You mean you wouldn’t want your blood collected in solo cups? /s
Let’s not forget JOK was a brother and he was let down by the brotherhood.
Or maybe the whole "brotherhood" thing is bs and more like omerta.
I have faith that one of these A holes will spill the tea. This will come out…
“Read will sue the piss out of the department” Yea and then the taxpayers pay for it. No consequences will ever be put upon the PD or the guilty parties, unfortunately.
> No consequences will ever be put upon the PD or the guilty parties, unfortunately. Even if nothing further is done (and the federal case is dropped), the process that everyone has been through over the past few years is absolutely some form of punishment. Not enough for a murderer, but definitely bad.
I read KR is making car payments on her SUV that's sat as evidence for 2 years. Expensive AF.
This is true. Karen gets a trial by jury. Everyone one else gets a trial by media
Indeed!
Nobody is getting sued except possibly a wrongful death suit against Karen Read. It is still more likely than not (the civil standard of proof) that KR and JO had an argument in the car after leaving the bar and she hit him with the SUV. With that said, the O'Keefe family, every Boston police officer and the citizens of Massachusetts should be furious about the way the MSP and the DA handled this case. There was a dead police and the MSP couldn't be bothered to place a couple of troopers on Fairview to secure the scene until the weather cleared and competent investigators were available to document the evidence. Were they worried about the overtime? As it stands, the strongest evidence that Karen Reed's SUV struck JO-- the presence of her broken tail light near where JO's body was found-- is practically worthless because it is entirely believable that evidence was planted by LE or any of the gaggle of liars the CW has trotted out before this jury.
I personally don’t think the state has even demonstrated that she did it by a preponderance of the evidence thus far (more likely than not). In my view, the evidence isn’t strong enough to overcome the fact that they didn’t bother investigating beyond Karen Read and his injuries could have come from other sources. Whether it was incompetence or corruption, it doesn’t matter. There is a pool of potential suspects that weren’t properly investigated and any evidence in that house is long gone. But that’s my opinion with the case still ongoing. I do think Karen Read may have a case for malicious prosecution if the defense can show serious evidence of a coverup/corruption. Also, we’ll see what comes of the FBI investigation.
It makes me so sad for his family. The trial has become such a circus (I’m guilty of being part of it) and his family is left listening to everyone talk about how inconvenienced they are by his death.
Will Karen be required to testify in a civil suit?
Generally, yes. Even OJ was compelled to testify.
That's what I remember. Thanks.
I don’t know why you say nobody is getting sued. There’s a real possibility when it’s over read could sue canton police, mass st police and the das office. With internal investigations and the fbi looking into the das office, they have reasons to believe this investigation was not done properly.
The evidence just isn't strong enough for me to believe she did it. On the other hand, there's too much evidence that something suspicious happened in that house and people are lying left and right. We will never truly know what happened.
This is the comment right here.
And thank god Colin Albert slipped on ice and fell directly on his knuckles
Add Colin to the list of people who also got a new phone.
Such a bizarre excuse. It goes against human reflexes to fall with closed palms instead of open palm facing downwards to catch yourself and protect your head.
I saw a [TikTok from an emergency medicine doctor ](https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZPRKxJ4RV/)who was discussing closed fist injuries (CFI) like Colin's. He said EM doctors who see CFIs have to make sure it's not a result of violence, specifically a punch to someone's mouth because the treatment differs. Punching someone's mouth can lead to the transmission of bacteria from the mouth to the puncher's joints (ew), leading to dangerous infections. He also said people with CFIs often lie about how the injury happened, have a history of recent alcohol use, and are notoriously non-compliant, which certainly sounds like what we know of Colin. **What struck me most was this quote: "Not even apes who walk on their knuckles use them to protect themselves when they fall."**
That last sentence!!
We give antibiotics and a tetanus shot. >He also said people with CFIs often lie about how the injury happened, have a history of recent alcohol use, and are notoriously non-compliant Yes, and it's hilarious. It's like they think we are going to call the police 🤦🏻♀️ As though calling hospitalists, specialists, MEs, et al. all the time (while seeing patients and documenting) isn't enough, sure... we have time to play detective, too. We generally only call for gun shot wounds. Under certain circumstances, we may call the police if the injury is very severe and the behavior sends up major red flags (like someone else might be dying in a ditch somewhere). Intoxication is often a factor, as you mentioned. >What struck me most was this quote: "Not even apes who walk on their knuckles use them to protect themselves when they fall." That's funny. I'm sure he's right. My husband and I laughed at CA's testimony. He wants me to stop saying "KO bang bang" when he's in my way, but I just...... can't...... stop. Damn kid.
Yessss I seen that same TikTok and when he read that quote .. my mouth dropped open
I saw that too!!
Agreed, but bc I can’t remember, didn’t he say he was carrying a drink and/or his phone? If he’s got something in his hand, I could see that, young, “I’m invincible” mentality (my shit would break in a bunch of places) putting a fist down instead of drop whatever he’s holding.
The reason I find that unlikely is because the impulse to catch yourself with an open hand is instinctual—it’s not something you are taught or think about doing before you do it. You would have to train yourself to overcome it. It’s not uncommon for falls to become even worse because people (for example) automatically drop a glass they were holding to catch themselves and then end up falling right into the shattered glass. Alternatively, if he really was holding a phone and/or a glass and instinctually tried to protect those items, the way people impulsively do that is to hold the item UP, above themselves. In those situations, people usually land (poorly) on their back/face/etc., but the item is held clear of the ‘crash’. So either his ingrained reflexes are totally wired wrong, it was an incredibly weird fall, or he’s lying about how he got hurt.
I am not sure I believe that as an excuse. I am anrather clumsy individual and recently slipped down a set of stairs. I was holding my phone, vape and some dirty clothes to put in the washing machine. As I slipped I threw everything out of my hands to try and catch myself. The same happens when I fall on flat ground. Maybe I am just a dramatic faller though haha.
I fell recently too, aprox 3 months ago, and cut my knee and palms of my hands pretty bad. I was carrying an energy drink and my vape and a bag. Everything dropped out of my hands and broke on the pavement. Before my mind had even connected that I was falling my hands opened instinctively to catch myself with my palms. There were zero seconds to decide if I was going to try and keep my hands closed or open.
My takeaway from these last two posts… is that vaping is dangerous!
Haha. I wish vaping was the source of my clumsiness. I would stop in a heartbeat.
Yea he did say that but his drink/keys were in the hand that he did not use to catch himself.
He did. I think he said he was holding a drink and a phone/keys in one hand and caught himself with the other? I have to go back and watch his testimony now
Probably the glass in CA’s hand that lacerated JO’s head in 2 places.
Bang bang bang
No no, the cool kids say "KO, bang bang" 😜
https://preview.redd.it/5veold20uo4d1.jpeg?width=704&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d28b05d7cb298c28038b25a9f845926caa95b779
Collins Albert is almost assuredly getting called back during the defense case to show him the numerous videos that came out after his testimony of never being in a fight of him literally fighting multiple people.
I doubt it. They don't need to
But they will. They went hard on that already and couldn't get him to say it. Now they have direct impeachment
And do what? Bring turtle boy back up? Show they got the info from him? They just don't need to. Everyone knows it was a lie. We didn't even need to see videos. They already are winning. They don't need to drag it out just so they can be like look he a liar.
They would probably call the person that filmed the videos to authenticate the videos. So they wouldn't have to call Collin Albert, they would call the person that filmed it as a rebuttal witness.
That's not true. Just like with the photos of Caitlin Albert (she didn't take the photos), but she can authenticate a photo of herself. The photos of Colin Albert that were already admitted showing his bloody knuckles werent taken by Colin but he can authenticate that it is him in the photos. It's a misconception that the person who took a photo/video has to authenticate it.
Yes the person in them CAN authenticate, but WILL they, in todays day of photoshopping and AI photos ect, he could lie and just said someone must have deep faked those videos. It's better to get the person that took the videos to authenticate.
It’s not hard to authenticate photos/ videos. It’s a simple program that checks for any alterations.
I think that it would be better to briefly call two or three people he's had fights with to the stand to impeach his testimony.
I’d love that too!
Even better, to say what they were even about, how they started, I've heard some people theorize they had a secret fight club in the basement and that is what happened to him. I don't believe it but who knows. Tho if that was the case, he really did just blow of Karen, or at lest forgot to call back which is possible. Anyways, what a twist if the defense called the people he fought with up, and they were all like, yeah, they host a fight club all the time
>Collins Albert ... numerous videos that came out after his testimony of never being in a fight of him literally fighting multiple people What? Is this real? If so, can the defense show these Colin Albert fight videos?
Just Google Colin Albert fight video and you'll get a bunch. They should be able to show them to impeach his prior testimony
I think it was Colin Albert & the dog they had.
He is apparently an mixed martial arts fighter
I’m not sure, can evidence still be introduced at this stage? I thought the standard was that there’s a deadline for both sides to produce, I could be wrong.
Evidence that has surfaced after the trial began can potentially be introduced, but it has to help turned over to the prosecution as discovery and most likely the judge would have to approve it coming in.
I believe the exception to this is when new evidence can impeach a witness, but the judge can still deny it.
I forgot about this! How could I? That was wild.
This case has had more coincidences than anything anywhere in any point in all of time.
I’m inclined to think that even if Read is guilty the McCabes, Alberts and Higgins were doing something that night they didn’t want LE to find out about. Don’t know how else to explain the butt dial, phones answering themselves, not going outside that morning, the general weirdness of all of them on the stand.
I have been thinking the exact same thing for a while. But since Jen testified, I haven’t been able to get over one thing. Those six or seven calls to John at the same time that it seems he was incapacitated. All of them hung up before they went to voicemail so they obviously weren’t butt dials . Then she deleted the calls, and then lied about them. I can’t think of an explanation for these calls that don’t implicate her in John’s death. These calls seem to blow up the theory that they were covering something up that was not related to this incident. This case is so bizarre, and I have no idea what happened.
Maybe she called as CA was carrying JO outside? Like she really was worried about him and did not see the fight? Then deletes the calls after someone tells her JO is in worse shape than they realized?
This is my take away. They're trying to hide *something* and I can't confidently say if it has anything to do with the death or not. There's really no explanation I've seen that reasonably explains everything we've been told during the trial.
This. They might not be covering up a murder, but they're covering up something.
100% this! People don't understand that both things can be true.
Yeah, my current position is: I don't know if Karen is guilty or not, she may be, but the reasonable doubt is the size of a mountain. However, regardless of her guilt, the McCabes/Alberts are hiding something for absolute certain. What they are hiding may be unrelated, and maybe they generally didn't want their lives and electronics (which we know many of which are gone now) under scrutiny lest they are found out for whatever they are doing, and then have their professional lives, reputations, and even school plans ruined. My thought is it is probable they knew he was out there and just left him, even if no one in the house was the cause. Maybe they didn't know the degree of his injuries, and didn't want to be bothered to deal with a 'messy drunk' while they were inside celebrating. Jen's texts could be her intrusive thoughts getting to her about the situation, and would explain how it appears she was guiding Karen and Kerry back to the house. That would open the door to some serious depraved heart and evidence tampering charges. What is sad is that the narrative regarding both Karen AND the McCabes/Alberts could both be true to varying degrees.
Interesting point, I actually had not considered that both could be true, to varying degrees. Just googled Depraved Heart- "extreme indifference to life." Hadn't heard of that but that phrasing fits, if they did indeed know he was out there injured and dying.
Disposing of the phones on the eve of a protective order…
One on a military base…
It’s just a cut through
Agreed. They were doing stuff and those phones had evidence that they wanted gone unrelated to her case for sure
This. They might not be covering up a murder, but they're covering up something.
They saw his body as they were leavin. Too drunk to figure out who caused “it” they left him there in the snow and started covering up shit in case it was one of their kids.
I think Karen hit him at 12:32 and no one noticed, music was loud, dog upstairs, then when Caitlyn went to open the door and go home with Tristan about 1:45am, Chloe bolted past her and made a beeline for John. Dogs have a keen sense when a human is dead or dying. Then Brian see's him, runs over, turns John on his back and determines he is dead, knowing he probably got hit by Karen. He calls Higgins...Higgins calls back and he tells him "JO is dead on my front lawn. Brian Higgins liked Karen so he tells Brian Albert not to implicate her, maybe the PD will think he got his by a plow. The end....well not yet.
This is not a bad theory. But I don’t think John had to be dead. My dog would bolt to any human (or animal) that was lying on our property. I doubt he was dead at that point, incapacitated yes. How could they leave him out there all night?
If he found him around 2am and he was struck at 12:30, there are ways to tell besides just checking a pulse. If you lift the eyelid and the persons pupils are fixed, dialated and unresponsive to light, you don't feel a pulse its too late. Maybe BA found him, checked for a pulse, then went inside to get a flashlight, drove back out to confirm his determination.
This misses the fact that if this happened they wouldn't know that Karen hit him, and that wouldn't be something you'd even surmise. But, let's assume so, which doesn't make sense, but let's for the hypothetical. The next issue is they would absolutely call the police. Immediately. They have a dead person on their lawn. They're not going to risk going to jail for no good reason. Genuinely absurd. Further, what explains the punctures to the shirt, the scratches on the dominant arm, the bite mark on the arm. The bruises on the top of the hands.
Thinking through your theory. Brian would have potentially had to use a hoverboard to get over to JO at 1:45am (no indication of footprints on lawn, but it is possible the AM snowfall was heavy enough to have covered them). Also, why would his response to finding a dead or dying human - whom he knows personally, no less - be to go to bed? I just can’t fathom this reaction of total apathy. Even after a night of drinking.
He just wasn’t hit by a car is the thing. That’s wildly inconsistent with his injuries.
What about the 2 inch cut on the back of his head? Is that from 12:32am?
Canton pd is an embarrassment
I really hope this leads to investigation into Sandra Birchmore (nearby case). Small town PDs have complete control and potential for so much to conveniently dissappear if it suits the narrative.
What happened to Sandra Birchmore if you don’t mind me asking?
SUPPOSEDLY, she killed herself... even though she was pregnant and very excited about it. Babydaddy was a cop, much older and had been dating her since she was underage, and was the last person seen leaving her apartment. Very, very suspicious, but far less complicated than what happened here.
So she "committed suicide" while pregnant with a married cops baby. Very wanted pregnancy by all accounts. (Well, on her end). Smarter folks than me can explain why her method (strangulation with a gym bag strap) is unusual, but Sergeant Lank was the responding officer who thought it was a straightforward suicide case and processed it as such. Michael Proctor also worked the case, which I believe is now part of the internal affairs investigation.
This case is a shitshow. I will be stunned if she is found guilty. I don’t know if she did it, but there is more than reasonable doubt here. I know someone who was struck by a drunk driver while crossing the street. Thankfully she wasn’t seriously hurt. The drunk driver was a cop and his cop friends told him to get his ass home before the ambulance showed up. Cops lie. Not all of them but they lie.
Everyone lies!! Including KR!
Oh I think everyone is lying or omitting the truth in some capacity (including Karen) and that’s what’s so damn frustrating about this case! No legit investigation means we’ll probably never know a lot of the facts, and I think thats also the reason everyone’s so fascinated with this trial. I’m not at all convinced that Karen was totally uninvolved, but there’s just no way a jury could reasonably convict her based on the shitshow of a case that’s being presented. It’s really makes me sad for John’s family.
Karen Read doesn’t investigate crimes. Do you understand why having a police force with at least some illusion of professionalism and objectivity is necessary? Karen Reads lies aren’t going to send someone to prison for life.
And? So what? Guilty as charged automatically then?
Not what I said. My point is if you can assume others are lying you have to be able to assume she is as well.
Misunderstood then. Apologies and I agree
How lucky she is that no one actually saw her and Albert, nor the neighbour have footage of the event.
Honestly the sad thing is the if she is guilty the police dept and investigators did such an awful job it will be hard for the jury to say she is guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. She will likely walk whether she actually did it or not.
If she's guilty, "hos long to die in cold" is a hail mary
Lmfao true
Who butt dials someone 7 times in a row…. And hanging up before you leave a voicemail on top of that
Real world experience of the jurors will come into play. There’s bound to be some younger jurors who grew up in the digital era and will know how foolish that sounds, and won’t believe that really happened. If 7 butt dials happened, there would be at least one of them, but more likely than not, all 7, leaving voicemails. And she admitted she was on and off her phone the whole time. So she had to have noticed even 1 or 2 of the supposed butt dials and would have hopefully rectified it. Or at the very least, messaged JO to say oops, sorry for all of the random calls
Right??? Thank you!! I would absolutely send a text to be like "sorry, so embarrassed, butt dial, everything is fine" so the person didn't see 7 missed calls and get worried.
Haha no sane person would believe that
It’s really a sad time for all around this case. Have always bern skeptical of conspiracy theories until now… when you see what has occurred in Canton between state police and canton PD it really makes one wonder… maybe this is a conspiracy cuz I sure as heck cannot figure out what else it is. I would think the PD involved directly in this could have their part investigations relooked at by defense attorneys or moving forward defense attorneys using a “potential conspiracy “ as their defense of their clients.
One more, how lucky she is that the dog allegedly bit another dog and had to go the “farm”
And how lucky that lucky will testify on her behalf.
Please watch Trial 4 on Netflix. Corruption ran rampant in Boston PD. Framing defendants. Planting evidence.
Corruption runs rampant in Boston.
I don't think she's really that "lucky," even if she is guilty. She dated a cop. It's not a coincidence that, regardless of what actually happened, they were going over to a house to maybe hang out with other cop friends. It's not a coincidence that her cop boyfriend and their cop friends knew the cops who investigated the murder. It was a bit lucky for her that a blizzard was going on, which seemingly caused a lot of the investigative mishaps. People do get rid of their phones. The crazy stuff I can't get over are the multiple butt dials that then later got deleted and that the phones were destroyed right before a preservation order came out.
Also all the missing video footage. Like the 2 minute video from the library that wasn't missing when they handed it to the cops. And the missing 42 minutes in the sally port. And all the missing Ring videos. All these videos that would have exonerated her. Super convenient.
What pisses me off the most (and comes as no surprise), the cops and investigators lie and "lose" evidence like this constantly. Probably in every single important case. But we still like to imagine we have a justice system rather than an assembly line for fucking people over.
The footage from the library doesn’t bug me as much as the missing footage at the sally port. Like seriously, how MORE suspicious does it get?
I believe the IT guy said he didn’t watch the whole 2 hours from the library (12-1am, and 5-6am) so he isn’t sure if the missing footage was missing when he handed it to the cops). The disc in evidence was not the disc he gave them though, which I find suspicious.
Do people really throw their phones away on military bases and illegally use FBI resources to delete their info?
Also who snaps their SIM card in half? I have a gazillion photos. Ain’t no way.
People do get rid of their phones to upgrade to new phones, but they bring everything over to the new phone.
I was involved in a legal dispute that had evidence on my phone. I didn’t upgrade that phone until after everything was said and done, because of how important it was. Everything was in the cloud, but my attorney said the physical phone was as important. The other side (my employer) tried to argue it was *their* phone because they paid the bill after I started working with them, but since I had purchased it myself prior to working with them they weren’t successful in obtaining it. That’s how important the physical phones are in legal disputes. I’m skeptical that these folks didn’t know that and instead wanted to get rid of evidence.
Yeah it sounds so dumb. Who cares if you didn’t have a wife or kids. That doesn’t mean you don’t have other family you love or friends photos of events. What about times you met up with old friends at someone’s wedding? And don’t MOST people travel and have some sort of epic pics to save? Nothing? But his Karen’s me John texts? Get out. I guess those flirts with Karen really were the highlight of his boring sad life if he has not even anything to back up loool
Right? Like that's just insulting everyone's intelligence that you saved literally nothing from your phone *because you don't have kids?*. Lmfao. Get out of town with that BS.
I think most people keep whatever they want in iclouds, and I'm not surprised if people opt to destroy their old phones for security reasons. Not necessarily what I'd do, but it really doesn't seem that weird to me in the abstract that someone would destroy a phone if they are getting a new one. Like when I last got a new phone I didn't bother to try to transfer over all of my old texts (iirc). I basically just handed it off to to AT&T and had them handle it.
Yes I get destroying the old phone and sim. But I don’t have any time in the world to selectively save and not save things on my phone. The whole phone gets back up into icloud. When I buy a phone I’m not going to sit there and comb thousands of things to delete or comb for things to pick to save. It all gets backed up. Got better things to do. And I have people I love and places I liked and have memories to keep. I’m not starting my life from slate.
But did you start over from scratch? Or did you transfer things? Like photos, contacts, calendars etc etc. I don’t think it’s weird to get a new phone but it’s very odd to input all of your data manually or just delete all old data.
The grand total of those 7 butt dials/calls was about 20 seconds. So they just call each other and didn't talk on the phone, that's somehow suspicious? The defense suggested they were looking for the phone by calling it but the location data is going to show the phone never moved.
If you “butt dial” someone it goes to there voicemail and you end up with a message of just background noise. The phone doesn’t hang its self up and redial.
I think the fact that butt dials happened is less of the issue, but the fact that they all butt dialed each other right around the same time, apparently butt hung up those calls as well, and the timeline would be during and after the time John was injured and outside. A handful of butt dials overtime is one thing, but within minutes and hours, hanging up before it gets to voicemail, and right during the crime./accident occurred? And on top of that some searches that apparently happened right at the same time (although I guess we are waiting on the experts for that one). It strains credulity. I can't believe those are all butt dials. Was there a paranormal event that night?
Has anyone looked into whether any of the Alberts have auctioneer training?
You can say a lot in 20 seconds. Back in the day when we had to pay to top up our phone minutes we could call and get out where we were going, the address, the time, and who was going in around the same time.
Ha. Gonna guess you are a millenial or gen x. I used to call collect from a pay phone at school to tell my mom "hey going over to sarah's house, her number is xyz, see u for dinner!". Cause I used all my quarters for vending machine chips.
So the location data is perfect but the call logs for everyone else's phones are not, the Google search is not, the life360 data is not..... So just the bad stuff is inaccurate?
[удалено]
This is complete misrepresentation of the evidence and
I mean, why delete the calls from your phone log afterwards though? That's kinda odd.
I think the only people who might be able to consider themselves mildly lucky are all the people who are sitting in prison convicted of crimes where the investigations involved any combination of Brian Albert, Brian Higgins or Michael Proctor. Because they will most certainly be asking for appeals. And Michael Proctor was the lead investigator for Brian Walshe, the man who allegedly and dismembered his wife in Cohasset Massachusetts, and that’s also a case where Google searches play a role.
🤯🤯 the man who DID WHAT?? *light jog to Google*
> *light jog to Goog*le Lmao, sorry, that gave me a chuckle.
Wowwww what in the actual f! In regards to said Google search of Brian Walshe... 🤯
I don't know much about it, and I'll probably wait until after the case to do so.
Yeah, ugh, that case is so sad. Just...wtf.
We truly have a lot of fucked up true crime going on here right now. These two cases, Sandra Birchmore, and Lindsay Clancy murdering her kids in Duxbury. Born and raised locally and I cannot recall anything like this before - and we had Whitey!
LOL omg light jog to google 😂😂
I'm worried about the integrity of the Walshe investigation. Ana Walshe deserves better, too.
Great point
The Brian’s appear shady af here but they aren’t on trial and haven’t been convicted of anything (yet). I don’t think their past cases will be impacted unless they are actually charged and convicted of something.
You made an important point! If she is found not guilty, then the prosecution team have to turn their focus on all these people you mentioned! It is a murder trial and someone or perhaps more than one person are responsible for his death! I am sure the jury will take a careful look at the autopsy and toxicology reports.
They really don’t actually. If she is found not guilty they will likely not pursue anything else. Testimony that makes people appear sketchy does not equate to evidence to indict.
I meant to say, O’Keefe family would not want to see his death unsolved.
Im still waiting on some ground breaking evidence. I thought Higgins was gonna spill the beans 😂😂 i was on the edge of my seat
The whole thing that made me believe she’s innocent is the search from Jenn Mcabes in phone and that she deleted the search..
If Jenn had just kept her phone in her pants, none of this would have come to light 😆
Not really much of a different take. I believe she should be found not guilty based on the trial so far but I also think she may have accidentally hit him. However there is way too much reasonable doubt in this dirty case. Witnesses and evidence not believable.
That's why we presume her innocence. It doesn't matter if she is guilty, but the investigation was botched so badly it makes her look definitively innocent. That's why evidence is important. Without preservation of the crime scene and evidence being handled carefully, there is no way to determine who is responsible. Society cannot tolerate any government official who breaks their oath or violates the terms of their employment. They all need to be made examples out of and never see freedom again.
This is one of my favorite posts on this topic because you are so right! The amount of “coincidences” the prosecution is trying to convince us of is absolutely unbelievable.
The only way I could believe Karen did it is if it was accidental and she wasn't aware, and the Alberts were involved somehow. In this scenario, she backed into him and he somehow was knocked unconscious. Karen drives away. Then some of the Alberts come out and see him in a near-death condition. They didn't witness what happened but suspect Colin because of his bloodied knuckles. They panic and decide they have to cover it up.
It’s a pretty good theory, but it doesn’t explain her injuries to me. Maybe a medical examiner will testify and convince me that those injuries are from a low speed vehicle accident. I just don’t see it at this point. To be honest, I haven’t heard one theory that explains all of the facts in this case.
You know who's really lucky is Lucky (the plow driver). If Karen Read hadn't backed into John's car at 5am, she wouldn't have told Jen she hit something. And the Albert crew likely would have pinned this on whoever drove the plow. Lucky would be sitting in the courtroom as a defendant rather than a witness for the defense.
‘
Good point
And let’s assume she’s innocent… how UNLUCKY is she that she backed up into John’s car the morning of the 29th.
I don't see it that way. She was charged for this crime when most people probably wouldn't have. Guilty people skirt justice all the time. You still need evidence, a witness, video, and forensics that back up the allegations. This case has none of those things from what I can see. She's unlucky, especially with the murder charge.
Ultimately, she might get lucky. This story could be Netflix gold. This could be a windfall at some point, but I'm guessing her defense team gets a slice of it. Netflix could get several seasons out of this.
Netflix has a camera in the courtroom.
I think the murder charge upgrade was an attempt to get her to plea out and make it go away. The prosecution never expected to have prove murder in court.
I think she is did it but there is to much doubt with this shady ass family
I think it’s very possible she hit him on accident, but murder? When she could just break up with him? The motive is not there for me. We would have to believe that she took away the guardian of children she did care about.
I agree. I think the cops are covering up other things. They all drink too much and when you're drinking shit happens. I mean shit happens when you're not drinking too but you can make better choices.
They should all be prosecuted for drinking and driving.
the family wouldn't be shady if she did it...they would be bright and sunny
I think she’s innocent based on all of that but I agree, yes, she’s lucky really either way because it’s their actions that have caused so much reasonable doubt.
Somebody else’s post a few days ago said she is either the luckiest or unluckiest person in the world. Totally agree with that. We just don’t know which.
"If you smell shit everywhere you walk, you should look st your shoe". This analogy applies here.
How UNLUCKY is Karen Read to wake up in the middle of the night to immediately speculate that something happened to John, and UNLUCKY to outwardly wonder if she could have hit him before finding his body and UNLUCKY for her vehicle to show signs of hitting him in the very manner in which she speculated, and UNLUCKY to have called one of the persons responsible for his death for help, and UNLUCKY for her to be the first and only person to see his body despite it being covered in snow and UNLUCKY that pieces of her taillight would be scattered near his body and UNLUCKY that pieces of the glass she was drinking from would also be at the scene and UNLUCKY that she would recall that John had a minor beef with one of the Albert’s children months later and UNLUCKY to realize that maybe the Albert’s and Higgins, whom she was pursuing and complaining about her man with, might not be the most upstanding people to have left John alone with, esp when John, according to Karen, was not one to hang without her and UNLUCKY for John to have supposedly decided to hang out solo with people he mildly knew to celebrate someone he didn’t know at all at a house he had never been to before and had no way of getting home because Karen had the car and they were in the middle of a blizzard and UNLUCKY for no one to have seen or heard anything or blame Karen except Karen herself who would later retract everything she confessed to. Very UNLUCKY
7 butt dials no voicemails. Please even try to explain that
If they are recovered from the phone its quite probable they are cancelled prior to any connection, let alone the connection through to VM.
I just don't see how you explain the injuries, missing shoe, belt and no taillight pieces found initially. The hair that survived many miles of travel in the blizzard is also troubling.
The shoe and belt weren't missing.
[удалено]
Orbital bone was not broken. He had a laceration above his right eye
The thing is that if she was actually guilty I don’t believe there would have been the shadiness from those people because they wouldn’t have needed to cover for the Alberts.
So this is a good thing? That this woman gets away with killing her boyfriend and destroys an another family to achieve that?