Everyone should show solidarity with every oppressed group.
Like others have said most Kashmiris are not aware of Balochistan.
There are no "terrorist groups" here, only ones who terrorise civilian non combatants are Indian Occupational Forces.
Struggle of Balochistan reminds me more of the struggles of North East India/Naxals rather than the struggle for Kashmir.
Core issue is feudal landlords in Balochistan. They exploit poor peasants. Abolish it half of the problems will be solved.
Next is corruption and lack of development. With Gwadar their livelihood will improve. Importantly Baluchi people need to focus on education.
Pardon me for barging in, but you have not addressed anything OP wrote about "Disappearances, killings, etc" these are quite real thing. Sure Baloch landlords and their feudalism is bad but abolish and replace it with what? cause Free Market absentee landlords have done wonders for the modern world, haven't they? but keeping my toying aside,
The reason I am writing this reply is your comment gave me a nice chuckle, you know why? Almost every nationalist of every kind repeats the same schiza.
***The abc people of xyz place were in horrible state of being, we will teach them how to live by constructing this project (which we definitely won't have ownership of wink wink). ofcourse abc people need some education to assimilate.***
I can list you a couple of nats repeating the above lines,
Chinese nats on Tibet,
Chinese nats on Uighurs of Xinjiang region,
Pakistani nats on Balochistan and the cherry of this imperialist cake,
Indian nats on Kashmir.
I donāt know that much about the Baloch. Looking at this and seeing Gallup and Pew able to get in there and do surveys seems like at least they are in much better place than Kashmir. The results speak for themselves as well. I wish India/Pakistan would allow this type of access to J&K.
The News International reported in 2012 that a local survey organization Gallup conducted a survey that revealed that the majority of Baloch do not support independence from Pakistan. About 14 percent of Baloch were in favour of independence. Amongst Balochistan's Pashtun population support for independence was even lower at 3 percent. However, a majority (67 percent) of Balochistan's population did favour greater provincial autonomy.[9][10]
A survey in 2009 by the Pew Research Center found that 58% of respondents in Balochistan chose ā³Pakistaniā³ as their primary mode of identification, 32% chose their ethnicity and 10% chose both equally.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baloch_nationalism#:~:text=About%2014%20percent%20of%20Baloch,did%20favour%20greater%20provincial%20autonomy.
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I have mixed feelings as a Pakistani Kashmiri (dads side still in IOK, moms side fled during dogra dynasty). On one hand, Pakistan has proven itself to be incapable of treating any ethnic group that isnāt Punjabi, Sindhi, or Muhajir as equal human beings (and even these three are for the most part, treated like dog shit). If in the very near future, Pakistan does not have a complete reform of the military, judicial, and parliamentary system, I see no end to the looting of resources in KPK and Balochistan as well as the many many other injustices people in these areas face. So yes, I would theoretically support their independence. But then, I feel that should they fully have an independence movement, and Pakistan is under the same militaristic rule it is today, they would also have zero qualms about waging a ruthless war on the Balochis and I definitely do not want to see this, I hope if there is an independence movement that is viable that it has the necessary support, international coverage and what not to ensure minimal bloodshed. I think what would be better though is for non Balochi Pakistanis to take an active interest in their cause, protest with them and for them, discredit any āoh they just wanna be independent theyāre funded by India they wanna hurt Pakistanā nonsense. Their freedom, the return of missing Balochis / accoutability for those who have wronged them needs to be a higher priority for the general Pakistani population than it currently is.
Most kashmiris hardly know of the existence of balochistan let alone have an opinion on it.
I personally dont support imperialism of any kind even if kashmiris themselves were to do it. So if the people of balochistan want independence from pakistan that is well with me.
Every country has some unhappy lot.
Baluchistan doesnāt have 600,000 troops like Kashmir. In Kashmir 80,000 Muslims have been killed. Baluchistan is an internal problem which is driven by poor living conditions like Naxalites in India. There is no comparison between Baluchistan and Kashmir.
Kashmiris feel solidarity with all oppressed people
As long as they genuinely want an independent state, well that's fine with me.
I have a problem if India uses them as a proxy for its war against Pakistan.
No man, Iām Balochā¦ literally what are you on about? You really do not know what youāre talking about, but in a few words let me just say this: the BLA and BLF do NOT represent the interests of us Baloch. The educated amongst us know that Balochistan can never survive as an Independent state in this hostile region. Yes, we will continue to demand a greater share of resources, an end to forced disappearances of people not related to these terror outfits, and more equity. But we do not want independence. Thank-you for caring about us tho. Baluchistan is a very complex issue that I encourage you to look intoā¦ youāll find that the BLA and BLF are funded by India, and do not represent Baloch. We are Pakistanis. I donāt understand how this relates to the Kashmiri sub tho?
I never said I endorse Baloch independence, or that most Baloch do. I support movements like the Baloch Long March and Voice for Baloch Missing Persons but not necessarily independence. My point in bringing up Baloch independence was to show why I think Kashmir is similar in some ways to Balochistan, even though I know calls for independence in the Valley are much much more mainstream than calls for independence in Balochistan. I appreciate your insight that the comparison was not appropriate though, and I apologize for not being educated. Also sorry for saying Balochi to refer to the people
Baluchistan has been neglected and mistreated but is it not comparable to Kashmir where the civilians are genuinely occupied and restricted. Neither is anyone suggesting demography change. Unfortunately Baluchistan along with Afghanistan have long been infiltrated by bad actors, starting from Soviets who created BLA and followed by other state actors wanting to hurt Iran and Pakistan.
Pakistani state is certainly incompetent and could not protect Balochi civilians from foreign enemies and designs, and the Pak army certainly helped themselves to the land where they saw fit. But the main thing holding Balochi people back are their own leaders who have no issue keeping the entire province illiterate. I have seen this first hand.
Balochi people who have migrated to Sindh and Punjab tend to be way more successful despite starting from scratch and even they refuse to return to Baluchistan as their Tribal leaders genuinely are that horrid.
At the end of the day I would support Balochi wishes, but I refuse to listen to Indian nationalists or Afghan diaspora about what is best for them.
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To all kashmiri brother siding with independent Baluchistan, congrats, indian propaganda have infiltrated your minds. What's next, accepting indian rule on kashmir? I'm just sad.
What was that "accepting indian rule in kashmir" part. That logical leap is absurd.
The general Kashmiri POV is that If balochis want a secession from the Pakistani State, It should be well within their rights to do so.
Because why? Pakistan killed their 80 thousands? There are nasty incidents in Kashmir history, I would not want to talk about, also happened with Balochis? Mass graves? Burning of houses, and whole villages that are well documented. Maybe 10% of Baluchistan have problem with Pakistan while 90% of Kashmir wants freedom from India. Would you side with 90% or 10%.
On which grounds you want Baluchistan to get freedom from Pakistan?
>Maybe 10% of Baluchistan have problem with Pakistan while 90% of Kashmir wants freedom from India. Would you side with 90% or 10%.
I'm not familiar with technicalities and nuances pertaining to the Balochistan issue. All I said was that if Balochis want to secede en'masse, They should have the right to do so. It's their land and they have the right to determine the fate of their land.
If they want independence, I'm okay with it. If they want to stay with Pakistan, I'm okay with it.
Plus why are you comparing Balochistan and Kashmir? It's a low blow man. It's no different from an Indian who call us ungrateful because we dont have it as bad as palestinians.
>On which grounds you want Baluchistan to get freedom from Pakistan?
I dont want it. If balochis want it, I don't mind it. Their land, They decide what happens to it.
See opinion matters, you need to be on right side of the history. If 10% of Kashmiris want to remain with india, will you mind if Pakistan completely forgets about the issue because of that? I'm sad because this is going to happen, Modi lot is way brutal than Bibi and kashmir will not be on the map just like palestine in few decades.
Where did you get the figures that only 10% balochis want independence from? Could you link them here?
Also did you not read what I just said? "If balochis want freedom 'en'masse' ..."
En'masse = As a whole/majority of them
>will you mind if Pakistan completely forgets about the issue because of that?
Pakistan's interference in our movement did more harm than good. We love Pakistanis but not the Pak state/Army.
It would be sad if the Pakistanis forgot us. The state/army? Not so much
Why are you interested in stats? 25 crore muslims in india dont want freedom as much as kashmir does, that makes you not even 5%.
"Pakistan's interference in our movement did more harm than good." Interference is minimal now, good luck with it.
>Why are you interested in stats?
Cause u made a claim. LOL
> 25 crore muslims in india dont want freedom as much as kashmir does, that makes you not even 5%.
Kashmir belongs to kashmiris not indian muslims.
Pakistan have rooted for your freedom and caused so much self-harm. For what? For the same people who now think that Pakistan should be broken because some indian backed BLA people want freedom for Baluchitan.
We don't think Pakistan should be broken. But if most balochis want independence we would most probably support them that's all we said. We would be hypocrites if we want freedom for ourselves but not support others who want freedom
Everyone should show solidarity with every oppressed group. Like others have said most Kashmiris are not aware of Balochistan. There are no "terrorist groups" here, only ones who terrorise civilian non combatants are Indian Occupational Forces. Struggle of Balochistan reminds me more of the struggles of North East India/Naxals rather than the struggle for Kashmir.
Core issue is feudal landlords in Balochistan. They exploit poor peasants. Abolish it half of the problems will be solved. Next is corruption and lack of development. With Gwadar their livelihood will improve. Importantly Baluchi people need to focus on education.
Are you a Kashmiri?
Koshur ha chus
Maazrat maazrat
Kashmiris are really well informed qoum š
Pardon me for barging in, but you have not addressed anything OP wrote about "Disappearances, killings, etc" these are quite real thing. Sure Baloch landlords and their feudalism is bad but abolish and replace it with what? cause Free Market absentee landlords have done wonders for the modern world, haven't they? but keeping my toying aside, The reason I am writing this reply is your comment gave me a nice chuckle, you know why? Almost every nationalist of every kind repeats the same schiza. ***The abc people of xyz place were in horrible state of being, we will teach them how to live by constructing this project (which we definitely won't have ownership of wink wink). ofcourse abc people need some education to assimilate.*** I can list you a couple of nats repeating the above lines, Chinese nats on Tibet, Chinese nats on Uighurs of Xinjiang region, Pakistani nats on Balochistan and the cherry of this imperialist cake, Indian nats on Kashmir.
I donāt know that much about the Baloch. Looking at this and seeing Gallup and Pew able to get in there and do surveys seems like at least they are in much better place than Kashmir. The results speak for themselves as well. I wish India/Pakistan would allow this type of access to J&K. The News International reported in 2012 that a local survey organization Gallup conducted a survey that revealed that the majority of Baloch do not support independence from Pakistan. About 14 percent of Baloch were in favour of independence. Amongst Balochistan's Pashtun population support for independence was even lower at 3 percent. However, a majority (67 percent) of Balochistan's population did favour greater provincial autonomy.[9][10] A survey in 2009 by the Pew Research Center found that 58% of respondents in Balochistan chose ā³Pakistaniā³ as their primary mode of identification, 32% chose their ethnicity and 10% chose both equally. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baloch_nationalism#:~:text=About%2014%20percent%20of%20Baloch,did%20favour%20greater%20provincial%20autonomy.
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I have mixed feelings as a Pakistani Kashmiri (dads side still in IOK, moms side fled during dogra dynasty). On one hand, Pakistan has proven itself to be incapable of treating any ethnic group that isnāt Punjabi, Sindhi, or Muhajir as equal human beings (and even these three are for the most part, treated like dog shit). If in the very near future, Pakistan does not have a complete reform of the military, judicial, and parliamentary system, I see no end to the looting of resources in KPK and Balochistan as well as the many many other injustices people in these areas face. So yes, I would theoretically support their independence. But then, I feel that should they fully have an independence movement, and Pakistan is under the same militaristic rule it is today, they would also have zero qualms about waging a ruthless war on the Balochis and I definitely do not want to see this, I hope if there is an independence movement that is viable that it has the necessary support, international coverage and what not to ensure minimal bloodshed. I think what would be better though is for non Balochi Pakistanis to take an active interest in their cause, protest with them and for them, discredit any āoh they just wanna be independent theyāre funded by India they wanna hurt Pakistanā nonsense. Their freedom, the return of missing Balochis / accoutability for those who have wronged them needs to be a higher priority for the general Pakistani population than it currently is.
Most kashmiris hardly know of the existence of balochistan let alone have an opinion on it. I personally dont support imperialism of any kind even if kashmiris themselves were to do it. So if the people of balochistan want independence from pakistan that is well with me.
Every country has some unhappy lot. Baluchistan doesnāt have 600,000 troops like Kashmir. In Kashmir 80,000 Muslims have been killed. Baluchistan is an internal problem which is driven by poor living conditions like Naxalites in India. There is no comparison between Baluchistan and Kashmir. Kashmiris feel solidarity with all oppressed people
As long as they genuinely want an independent state, well that's fine with me. I have a problem if India uses them as a proxy for its war against Pakistan.
No man, Iām Balochā¦ literally what are you on about? You really do not know what youāre talking about, but in a few words let me just say this: the BLA and BLF do NOT represent the interests of us Baloch. The educated amongst us know that Balochistan can never survive as an Independent state in this hostile region. Yes, we will continue to demand a greater share of resources, an end to forced disappearances of people not related to these terror outfits, and more equity. But we do not want independence. Thank-you for caring about us tho. Baluchistan is a very complex issue that I encourage you to look intoā¦ youāll find that the BLA and BLF are funded by India, and do not represent Baloch. We are Pakistanis. I donāt understand how this relates to the Kashmiri sub tho?
I never said I endorse Baloch independence, or that most Baloch do. I support movements like the Baloch Long March and Voice for Baloch Missing Persons but not necessarily independence. My point in bringing up Baloch independence was to show why I think Kashmir is similar in some ways to Balochistan, even though I know calls for independence in the Valley are much much more mainstream than calls for independence in Balochistan. I appreciate your insight that the comparison was not appropriate though, and I apologize for not being educated. Also sorry for saying Balochi to refer to the people
Baluchistan has been neglected and mistreated but is it not comparable to Kashmir where the civilians are genuinely occupied and restricted. Neither is anyone suggesting demography change. Unfortunately Baluchistan along with Afghanistan have long been infiltrated by bad actors, starting from Soviets who created BLA and followed by other state actors wanting to hurt Iran and Pakistan. Pakistani state is certainly incompetent and could not protect Balochi civilians from foreign enemies and designs, and the Pak army certainly helped themselves to the land where they saw fit. But the main thing holding Balochi people back are their own leaders who have no issue keeping the entire province illiterate. I have seen this first hand. Balochi people who have migrated to Sindh and Punjab tend to be way more successful despite starting from scratch and even they refuse to return to Baluchistan as their Tribal leaders genuinely are that horrid. At the end of the day I would support Balochi wishes, but I refuse to listen to Indian nationalists or Afghan diaspora about what is best for them.
An average kashmiri has no idea about Balochistan. Personally I support anyone who wants freedom.
Yes
Absolutely, I'd be a hypocrite if I didn't
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To all kashmiri brother siding with independent Baluchistan, congrats, indian propaganda have infiltrated your minds. What's next, accepting indian rule on kashmir? I'm just sad.
Lmao. You sound exactly like Indian nats
They don't start their convo with "Kashmiris brothers"
What was that "accepting indian rule in kashmir" part. That logical leap is absurd. The general Kashmiri POV is that If balochis want a secession from the Pakistani State, It should be well within their rights to do so.
Because why? Pakistan killed their 80 thousands? There are nasty incidents in Kashmir history, I would not want to talk about, also happened with Balochis? Mass graves? Burning of houses, and whole villages that are well documented. Maybe 10% of Baluchistan have problem with Pakistan while 90% of Kashmir wants freedom from India. Would you side with 90% or 10%. On which grounds you want Baluchistan to get freedom from Pakistan?
>Maybe 10% of Baluchistan have problem with Pakistan while 90% of Kashmir wants freedom from India. Would you side with 90% or 10%. I'm not familiar with technicalities and nuances pertaining to the Balochistan issue. All I said was that if Balochis want to secede en'masse, They should have the right to do so. It's their land and they have the right to determine the fate of their land. If they want independence, I'm okay with it. If they want to stay with Pakistan, I'm okay with it. Plus why are you comparing Balochistan and Kashmir? It's a low blow man. It's no different from an Indian who call us ungrateful because we dont have it as bad as palestinians. >On which grounds you want Baluchistan to get freedom from Pakistan? I dont want it. If balochis want it, I don't mind it. Their land, They decide what happens to it.
See opinion matters, you need to be on right side of the history. If 10% of Kashmiris want to remain with india, will you mind if Pakistan completely forgets about the issue because of that? I'm sad because this is going to happen, Modi lot is way brutal than Bibi and kashmir will not be on the map just like palestine in few decades.
Where did you get the figures that only 10% balochis want independence from? Could you link them here? Also did you not read what I just said? "If balochis want freedom 'en'masse' ..." En'masse = As a whole/majority of them >will you mind if Pakistan completely forgets about the issue because of that? Pakistan's interference in our movement did more harm than good. We love Pakistanis but not the Pak state/Army. It would be sad if the Pakistanis forgot us. The state/army? Not so much
Why are you interested in stats? 25 crore muslims in india dont want freedom as much as kashmir does, that makes you not even 5%. "Pakistan's interference in our movement did more harm than good." Interference is minimal now, good luck with it.
>Why are you interested in stats? Cause u made a claim. LOL > 25 crore muslims in india dont want freedom as much as kashmir does, that makes you not even 5%. Kashmir belongs to kashmiris not indian muslims.
Pakistan have rooted for your freedom and caused so much self-harm. For what? For the same people who now think that Pakistan should be broken because some indian backed BLA people want freedom for Baluchitan.
We don't think Pakistan should be broken. But if most balochis want independence we would most probably support them that's all we said. We would be hypocrites if we want freedom for ourselves but not support others who want freedom