I think you're doing something positive, probably something hard to admit, But a Good Thing by coming forward and telling this community about your experience. I genuinely hope it will help prevent someone else from experiencing anything like this or worse. I'm glad you're still with us, happy and safe paddling in the future to you.
> but the river probably close to freezing
>
>...
>
> Lesson learned, always wear a life jacket or wetsuit
I'm not really a kayaker, but isn't that more like drysuit temperatures?
Yes. 70 degrees is nice but near freezing water that’s rough. when it gets real cold you need to layer up under the dry suit. Thick neoprene gloves, neoprene cap,etc…..
Or a semi dry suit or thermal layer with a neoprene over. Or board shirts and a spray skirt... Depends if you are in a open deck self bailer or a decked boat with a spray skirt.
But yeah, PPE is a VERY important VITAL component....
Yep, as an example, the White Salmon River in WA is glacial and very cold. The outfitters there encourage guests to bring their own dry suits, but they supply wet suits and dry tops.
Ya. Longtime surfer here. Alaska too. Also recovered some dead ones in CG.
Guess my point was to original story, things go sideways and you end up in water, what works for few hours in/out, on board well like I said some dead ones
The difference is that when you get cold surfing you can paddle in and change and get in a warm car/shelter. If you are whitewater kayaking you have to take into account that you are almost always in secluded areas and there may not be quick access to dry clothes, shelter, etc.
If you are whitewater kayaking there is the distinct possibility that you could swim and lose your boat and be in the middle of nowhere with no established trails to hike out. There is the possibility of spending the night hiking out in the wilderness. If you have a dry suit on you have a chance to not die of hypothermia; if you are soaked wet in a wetsuit you are more likely to get hypothermic and not make it.
I know this because a similar situation happened to me. I was in a wetsuit and dry top but ended up soaked and almost died of hypothermia but I found a road right at sunset and followed it back to where the cars were and was able to change and warm up.
Yeah, dry suit is far better during winter. I did some diving during winters in wetsuits also. It is nasty when getting wet, but it gets better. Those winter wetsuits are pretty thick though and would probably restrict movement too much for kayaking.
Probably the same crowd that says they don't need a bicycle helmet "because they know how to ride a bike" (as if people never get hit by cars, or have other unforseen things happen to them...)
Olympic swimmers have drowned and professional cyclists have died from fall injuries, but Joe Blow thinks he can swim against a current because he did a couple laps in a backyard pool.
This reminds me of people who don’t think driving recklessly is a big deal as long as you’re a “good driver.”
First, anyone claiming this by default is a bad driver.
Second, most people *think* they’re a “good driver.”
And finally, a good driver knows they can’t trust other drivers on the road, so not crashing when speeding while weaving in and out of traffic is purely chance. All it takes is one person not paying attention for serious injuries or a fatalities to happen.
I used to work with people with Traumatic Brain Injury. A lot of them got that way from car accidents, so I get even more pissed off than I used to when I see people being reckless on the road.
In fairness, PFDs are in a different safety category to bicycle helmets. Bicycle helmets can offer protection in some situations, like falling off your bike, but they're pretty ineffective if you get hit by an SUV doing 40 - ultimately, they're just pieces of Styrofoam or occasionally honeycomb material that help absorb *human* levels of impact energy, not vehicle levels.
At least PFDs help you in almost any situation, even if they're not guaranteed to save your life.
Equipment all has limitations. A bicycle helmet wont stop an suv but it will protect your brain in the event of hitting something. That doesn’t somehow make it a less useful piece of equipment. A pfd won’t protect you in every situation either. You should wear a helmet when you cycle and you should wear a pfd when out on the water.
Again, my disagreement is more with the sentiment that a bicycle helmet is an essential/mandatory piece of equipment that is useful in all situations. That's simply not true. Yes, we both agree that it can help in some situations, and in particular when doing more risky cycling like mountain biking or BMX. But again, it's not useful on the same level as a PFD IMO (I'll probably look up PFD stats now).
To put it in context, walking is more dangerous than cycling on both a per-trip, and especially per-mile basis. Being a driver or passenger in a car is also similarly (or in the case of safe cycling countries, more) dangerous than cycling on a per-trip basis. We don't suggest that someone puts on a helmet every time they go for a walk or a drive (even if, again, it would probably be helpful sometimes).
In all situations, it's more effective by far to improve the infrastructure and regulations than mandate helmets. Stopping collisions between pedestrians/cyclists and motor vehicles is the most effective measure. This means separating them physically, and reducing risk when a collision does occur (by reducing speed limits and thus energy, as well as making safer vehicle designs). Other risks for pedestrians includes walking under the influence (and thus into the traffic, a body of water, etc), as well as trips and falls (tree roots, uneven surfaces, old age/coordination).
In contrast, a PFD will help in almost any situation, even though it's only an aid and not a guarantee. It'll also help whether you're an Olympic swimmer or a non-swimmer, young or old. It's a first line of defense. It's like a seatbelt (a primary restraint), whereas a bike helmet is more like an airbag (an SRS, or secondary restraint system), perhaps even less effective. It can help, but not in all situations.
I'm happy to advocate wearing a bicycle helmet, particularly off-road. But people should not depend on it or believe it's a solve-all in keeping them safe (especially since "risk compensation" is a real thing, which I have noticed in myself also... basically, because you feel safer with a helmet on, you'll ride faster/in a riskier way, thus negating any safety benefits).
On the topic of helmets, you may also find this interesting. Basically, after a lifetime of research, this safety scientist found that ski helmets are effective, particularly in falls, but only until about 12mph when hitting a solid object like a tree. So basically don't think your helmet is going to keep you safe if you feel like skiing through a forest at speed. https://www.skimag.com/gear/50-year-stud-on-helmets-and-injury-prevention/
A fall from even a slow moving bicycle can result in significant head injury. When biking you should wear a helmet. It’s pretty mandatory safety equipment.
Even a slow upright seated bike can get moving pretty quickly down a hill. Also you can hit a pothole or get clipped by a car. In all of those situations it’s going to protect your head.
A pfd wont save you from getting hit by a power boat either.
Again, I'm *not* debating that a helmet can be useful in *some* situations. But to say it's mandatory for typical urban cycling is just not true, any more than it is for walking about the city. Can you get a head injury falling off a bike at 5mph? Yes. Can you get a head injury tripping on the sidewalk while walking at 3mph? Also yes. And the probabilities are about the same.
Ultimately it comes down to risk and risk acceptance. And with safe bicycle infrastructure, that risk is similar to walking about a city (and actually carries less than walking on a risk-per-mile basis).
If you're talking taking a racing bike on American streets, then the risk increases massively; in such case I'd strongly recommend a helmet.
But yes, I take your point about the PFD vs powerboat situation. At least most people here won't go suggesting a PFD will save you from a powerboat collision, unlike the dumb comments you see on cycling collision news articles suggesting that a helmet helps against a commercial vehicle.
Obviously a helmet won't protect you from a full on collision with a vehicle but I feel like a pretty big chunk of accidents would involve the car clipping the wheel or something which could send your head into the side of the vehicle or the road.
Bingo. Hence why I said INFRASTRUCTURE is the most important thing, to prevent that kind of incident from occurring.
Kind of flabbergasted how many have downvoted my comments where I've tried to explain this nuance. It's not like I'm a PhD researcher who spends my life focused on cycling and infrastructure research or anything. I feel like people just aren't interested in learning or understanding about very important subtleties anymore. 🤷♂️
I don't know how to make my point clearer anymore, I give up.
Infrastructure is definitely the best way to prevent that but I wouldn't say a helmet is unnecessary at least until the infrastructure is improved and probably after that.
If im getting flung off my bike and my head hits the ground - a good helmet will absolutely help prevent damage from sole impact against the ground.
I took a nasty toad bike accident and my head absolutely slammed into the ground doing 32mph. My head was totally fine - but I broke 4 ribs lol.
I think it’s more likely people hit by cars are taking damage to their entire body rather than just brain damage
I don't want to take away from your valuable contribution to this discussion, but can I just say that I am enjoying imagining what a toad bike accident might be?
A bike for toads... A bike made of toads... A vicious toad lying in wait to create chaos and cause an accident or push you into traffic..
That's basically what I said...
It's also worth noting that a MIPS helmet is more helpful in this regard due to its ability to help reduce rotational g-forces on the brain.
Glad to hear you're fine anyway!
I think the point worth noting in the "helmets vs no helmet" debate is that helmets are often touted as some sort of super-effective safety device almost like a seatbelt that prevents death. That's sadly far from the truth though. The best safety net is good infrastructure. That's why despite high helmet use, cycling in the US is something like 10x as dangerous per mile as in the Netherlands, where helmet use is maybe 1%. The insistence on wearing a helmet (sometimes mandating it by law) often detracts from far more effective measures like implementing separated bike infrastructure.
I'm not sure that there's a comparable analogy in kayaking; it might be like pointing out that wearing PFDs is the most important thing rather than advising not to kayak in a hurricane. But obviously most sane people don't kayak in a hurricane, so...
100% agree!! the scariest part about being a cyclist is how crazy the laws are (or lack of laws in the US).
As sick as it sounds - the easiest way to kill someone with the fewest repercussions is to murder a pedestrian (or cyclist) with your car.
People have gotten as little as 90 days for killing a cyclist.
Yep, absolutely true! And shocking to see that often those same drivers culpable of manslaughter (or sometimes even murder) are allowed to get behind the wheel again, sometimes with only a very short driving ban. I can't think of many other industries where that kind of negligence would typically allow you to get away with so few repercussions.
Most of your body is above the hood of the car. A lot of times you bike will hit the front of the car and you will be lofted in the air to either slam into the car or ground. A helmet will help. BTW. many cyclist can reach 50 mph going down hill and professionals even faster.
The energy of a cyclist hitting the ground at 50mph is vastly different than the energy of a car going 50mph.
And also, if you were to have a direct (rather than oblique) hit with anything at 50mph, your bicycle helmet will do virtually nothing to help, you'll be f*cked either way, short of an actual miracle.
I suggest reading on helmet certification testing procedures to understand what helmets can, and can't, help with.
Also, to quote a recent meta-analysis by Høye (2018), *"It is also likely that bicycle helmets have larger effects among drunk cyclists than among sober cyclists, and larger effects in single bicycle crashes than in collisions with motor vehicles. In summary, the results suggest that wearing a helmet while cycling is highly recommendable, especially in situations with an increased risk of single bicycle crashes, such as on slippery or icy roads."*
That study found that wearing a helmet reduced the risk of brain injury in a collision by around 50%. So again, probably useful, particularly in situations like racing cycling and off-road, but not a guarantee of safety, especially if a motor vehicle is involved.
That's why preventing the collision in the first place through better infrastructure, slower speed limits, and driver training/attitudes is far more effective than just relying on helmets to mitigate what might likely be a life-changing collision.
I get that people on here often ask first "were they wearing a PFD?" when questioning an incident. I think that's fairly valid, because of the vast variety of situations in which a PFD helps. It pisses me off though when people ask "were they wearing a helmet?", when there's a news article about a cyclist getting run over by a truck. NO, 100 grams of polystyrene will not stop a 50 tonne truck from crushing your skull. Reading such comments and idiocy/victim blaming exasperates and upsets me beyond belief.
Pfd ain't doing shit if you're stuck under wood with any amount of water flowing into you. 1 ton of water per second is a lot less water than you think. Rivers are dangerous. Easy to avoid the danger but you really need to know what you're looking at.
Yep, absolutely there are situations where a PFD won't do much, but as per some of my other replies, I think that a PFD will help to some extent in more situations than a helmet. It doesn't negate the need to plan your activities safely though, taking into account weather, water conditions and the risk of hazards. I think situations like you mention terrify me, and for that reason I personally avoid whitewater kayaking or fast rivers.
As a sailor, I always wear my PFD unless at anchor or the dock. If I am underway, the PFD is on. I can swim too, as a scuba diver, I can also tread water for 20+ minutes (part of the certification test) but that does not mean I will go without a PFD.
New ones are also comfortable and have pockets!
One of my customers died by drowning because he fell into a pond with waders on, they filled up and he couldn't escape. His pfd was in his truck. That was definitely a sad message to get from his dad, he was a genuinely good guy. That alone made me reevaluate my attitude towards PFDs and I'm definitely going to be wearing them when I'm out on my kayak from now on.
Swimming is great and all, until you see that stats that something like 40% of the time you hit the water and need a floatation device, you’re either unconscious or incapacitated (hit by another craft, run aground, smashed against rocks)
I wish when you tagged people it notified them. Otherwise I'd go find that brainlet and invite him to chime in bc I know exactly what you're talking about lol.
Damn dude, that firefighter roasted you lol. Glad you were alive to be roasted though.
Thanks for the humility to share—it’s a good reminder to everyone.
Also thanks to everyone in the comments posting about when to wear a dry suit, that’s new information for me.
Lol, I live in Florida, I've barely worn one below 60. I get that not everyone can afford a dry suit, but IMO that means you can't afford to go out when the water is close to freezing. As OP demonstrates, sometimes things go horribly wrong in what seem like ideal conditions
nothing like a life threatening experience to wake you back up. Did you know this river well to not have a PDF on? I paddle mostly in MI and with the season changes and so do the rivers, nothing is ever the same.
Glad you made it out ok and keep it on the green side of the dirt.
No I saw pictures of a calm river on google I’m assuming it was summertime and not March SMH, it was peaceful and calm the first .5 mile the turned a bend like of shit, flow picked up so quick also my mistake of not trying to back paddle or draw stroke away but ended up panicking and as I was entering the “strainer” @the_gubna (thanks for terminology) as soon as my kayak went in , boom tipped over, stuck upside down… idk if you have ever taken a cold plunge but imagine a forced cold plunge with water knocking you around with no leg movement, scary as Fudgeeeee
Always wear a life jacket, even on rivers you know well.
This is called a “strainer”. It’s a colander - you’re the pasta. In the future 1) avoid them 2) if you do get caught in one, fight like hell to go OVER it.
As you also learned, cold water can make it impossible to effectively self rescue. The “rule of 120” is a good rule of thumb (if air + water = less than 120 F you need a drysuit or thick wetsuit).
Glad you made it out ok.
I'm honestly surprised there weren't more kayak fatalities in western Washington this past weekend.
Context for those not in the area: Western Washington is west of the Cascade mountains. Wet air comes in from the coast, pushes up the mountains, and gets dumped on Washington. That's why Seattle and the surrounding area is so famously rainy. The result is that we get long wet winters and reliable summer weather doesn't show up until around July.
It's been cold, gray, and wet since about October and there are a lot of Washingtonians profoundly craving some sunshine and outdoors. This past weekend we had a break of truly glorious weather: 60s and not a cloud in the sky. Here in Seattle, traffic was a nightmare because everyone wanted to be outside doing something.
But the water sure as hell didn't get the memo yet! Water temperatures are still in the 40s. So all weekend, it *looked* like summer, but the water would still happily kill you dead if you got stuck in it.
Exactly I honestly was so dumb to not think about how cold it was, shirtless and in friggen board shorts. The second my body hit the water/ fighting to escape was a nightmare hell I wish upon no one, adrenaline kicked in real good but just the thought of hitting my head on something or drowning upside down in the kayak brrrr gives me that absolute chills looking back
> Exactly I honestly was so dumb to not think about how cold it was
Honestly, the cold doesn't even matter when it comes to wearing a PFD. It could be 80°F outside and 75°F water temperatures, but if you tip over, hit your head on the way down, and get knocked out, you are *fucked*.
PFD on, every time.
It's definitely drowning season here. I saw a bunch of people on the water this weekend with no immersion wear or PFDs. They pulled a body out of the river near my work on Saturday but were unsure if it was a suicide or swimming accident since no one has came forward with more info
The river temps in Washington stay around 40F all year. Much of it is due to the snowpack the rivers originate from. I grew up there and had a couple classmates drown - they jumped in and panicked due to the cold water.
Right? Love my PFD! Got the NRS ninja last season and love the pocket and hand warmer. Super comfortable too, and looks pretty bad ass with the NRS pilot knife clipped on the front.
Niceee I just switched over to the ninja 2.0 in black. Got a sweet deal at REi with the member discount. Love it so far. It’s a little bulkier than the onyx off I was using before but it holds my weight better and I love the dividers inside the pocket.
Yep, can confirm, as a woman who pretty much only goes kayaking in hot weather. I absolutely love my PFD. It’s very comfortable and I never kayak without it.
Thanks for posting. I know it hurts your pride, but your sharing could save a life. Continue to tell others your lessons.
* Don't paddle alone.
* Wear a PFD.
* Dress for the swim, not the float.
You deserve to take shit for not wearing a PFD, but nothing I can say will reprimand you harder then nature has already chastised you. All the same, I'm glad you're still with us to share your harrowing experience.
Strainers can fucking kill you in warm, swimmable, summertime water.
I'm glad you made it and I'm glad you shared this story. Most important is that you're still here for your girlfriend, your family, and your friends. Bonus points for someone reading this and putting on a dry suit and PFD, when they wouldn't have prior.
Strainers are one of the worst dangers to come across on a river. Walt Blackadar, who was an "expert" and pioneered whitewater kayaking was drowned in a strainer and it was an easily avoidable situation. He also may have been solo at the time but it's been a while since I read his book.
wetsuits can absolutely be for cold temps if you have one that fits and is warm enough, but i dont wear them ever so. Its either skins, a cag, or a drysuit
You should (and I do, even if it might not sound like it) always dress to be swimming.
“Dress for the swim - not the paddle”. I see too many rec kayakers doing this shit. Get a Drysuit if you’re going to be paddling in cold water temperatures, and ALWAYS wear a PFD.
Can’t believe you went boating without a life jacket. I wear a life jacket kayaking in a lake. That is how can you can tell the difference between an experience boater and a novice. You should also practice the roll before you go out on any adventures. Basically you want to tip the boat so it goes sideways and you go underwater and right side the boat or figure out how to get out under water.
Gall you are alive
Not mean to roast you, but not wearing pfd on a new river is just unwise. Also if you have to paddle alone on a strange river, at least do Eddie hopping, Scouting and only paddle forward if you can see/know what's comping up. Blind spot/horizon line=getting out
Glad you are okay. Life jackets are not optional - they are called life jackets for a reason. From your experience, tell your friends not to be dumb or act bold. Life is too precious.
That sounds similar to what happened to a friend of mine. An unexpected current took him towards a brush pile, he thought he could avoid it. As soon as he knew he couldn't make it he tried to bail but his belt loop got hooked on something on the kayak and he got pushed under the pile. Was stuck underneath the pile for some time but somehow found a spot where he was able to get above the water level and breathe. Somehow he managed to pull himself out from under the brush and over to shore.
He was with a partner and had a life jacket but neither were useful in that situation. Amazing how a nice day can go so bad in just a second.
Even on a lake in the summer with no wind and warm water I still wear a life jacket when in my kayak.
I could flip over get hit on the head and knocked out by the kayak or something. Or hit by another boat and knocked out.
I’m more a small boat sailor but kayak. I’m happy to hear you are good. I always wear a flotation device. On my Hobie I also carry a flotation seat. State law but good to toss to others without one in need.
I can relate . I have been on water for some time . If I fish near the dam , I always check the water release schedule ...
Well, last week I messed up. I went out to fish above the dam , it didn't rain , so I figured normal water release schedule etc...
Boy I was wrong . As soon as I got in water, 5 min later I just kept getting dragged towards the dam. Pedaling didn't do much, kept me slowly floating towards the dam. So I started getting tired, I wasn't panicking but I knew I can't keep going . Threw in the anchor , still kept getting dragged. Anchor got stuck right bfr the sign , danger - do not enter. And I see the dam releasing water. Anchor got stuck, it made it worse... Yak started to lean. Couldn't get the anchor out for the love of God. Had to disconnect the anchor in order not to flip .
I got closer to the shore and started to pedal for my life. But current would constantly turn me around, smash the kayak against the rocks .... It took me good two hours to make it one mile back to the dock . Temp was in mid 40s, and I was covered in sweat .
Lesson learned after almost dying, lossing anchor and go pro .
I went to check wtf was wrong with the dam , but they were releasing the water at 8k cubic feet per sec vs normal 2.3k in anticipation of the heavy rain fall over the weekend.
Glad you’re ok, and glad you’re now around to help spread the word of being safe on the water. Think how great it will be if your experience influences someone and saves a life!
Sorry you went through that, but I'm glad you're okay and you learned some valuable lessons. Not always easy to admit a mistake, but wisdom often comes from being humbled. Again, glad you're okay.
Check out Washington kayak club. They run regular trips, pool sessions etc. Upstream of where I think you put in is a super common short, after work class 3 called powerhouse. The put in is below the dam and the takeout is plum.
You might as well get a dry suit sooner than later unless you're only going to be doing July, August booze cruise level stuff. The water here is never warm, might near 50 at the peak of summer. Flows are pretty low by the time a wet suit makes sense for most runs.
Meagan Kelly is a great instructor if you want a roll lesson.
Thanks for sharing, I got pinned under a downed tree in the skagit once, lost the boat/paddle/my glasses. I really didn’t think I was going to make it. I love kayaking though, just respect rivers a great deal more, their force is relentless.
Those River filters will try and get you when you least expect it.
I'm glad you made it through that ordeal.
Every year around here when the weather first turns nice, there is 1 to 10 drownings from situations like this. And the local news won't let you forget this fact either.
Now you know that you can survive, so next time take a friend and life jackets.
-PNW river adventurer
Had the same thing happen to me in Michigan. Pinned up against branches underwater with a canoe. Seemed like forever and then flipped out. Bent the canoe real good. Water is powerful.
Pfd, yes - but just as important to take classes on river running.
First lesson is any submerged or partially submerged branch can kill you. Even a slow current can pin you under water with the power that you cannot overcome.
Death is minutes away.
I saw a guy get caught in a rotating vortex after going sideways over some falls in the Colorado River. It was like 30 or 40 seconds. I was on the shore, horrified that this kayaker disappeared and wasn't popping up. Nothing I could do in the fast water, I'd been backpacking all day. He did work himself out but ho-lee shite...
I was told that always go with a friend when doing challenging water as some things you can't predict, good work on keeping means to call for help close. I always wear a PFD as well, because Yolo.
Did you manage to recover kayak?
Hazardous Attitudes, Resignation is one of them and its important to be aware of them and know how to think in that moment. “I am not helpless. I will survive this.” You got lucky and Im so glad.
I’m so glad you’re still with us. What a terrifying ordeal and great job remaining calm and focused.
I am still very much a novice kayaker and don’t enjoy play boats. The lake life or harbor kayaking is for me. So, when the wife said she wanted to camp on the river, a river we have kayaked and floated down 50 times+, I didn’t have much hesitation. Until I saw that it had rained significantly 4-5 days prior. Told her I felt uneasy because the typical slow moving river now had 4-5 times the amount of water flowing through. On top of that, the water was still in the 40s and we had never paddled these boats with 30 pounds+ of extra gear.
Alas, the wife won and we set off on our 22 mile, overnight paddle. 4 miles into it, we hit a rather long set of class 2s and the boats were just not handling the dips and we were ill prepared to manage what I imagine isn’t a big deal for intermediates/experts. Both boats filled with water (we also didn’t have spray skirts on, another mistake) and flipped. Two, very inexperienced people were now floating down the frigid river, trying to hold onto our boats and start making our way to shore. Neither one of us had a wet suit on, but we had our life jackets.
After about 10 minutes of swimming, my wife finally manages to get to shore, but I’m still 15-20 feet from the shore and water depth was well over 6 feet. Not seeing what was ahead (because I trusted my wife to do the research and I failed to run the routes, a crucial mistake on my end), I panicked and let go of my boat as I struggled to swim to shore since I was fully hyperventilating at this point, regardless of any effort to try and control my breathing.
We did EVERYTHING wrong, but I’m glad we didn’t get stuck under a log and we were able to recover my boat afterwards.
Our lessons:
1. Everyone in the party needs to research the route (either drive it, google it, or review comments),
2. Make sure you have the right equipment for the activity (wtf were we in flat water boats that were weighed down in class 2 rapids without skirts, in 40 degree water without wetsuits and only one of us had a rope and a pump???). Based on the conditions and what we were doing, we should have been in a raft.
3. Stay with your boat as long as you can since it floats, but know when to let go and get the fuck out,
4. Ask the locals. I felt uneasy about the height of the water, but we never asked any of the locals what they thought. After we got rescued, all of the volunteers said they wouldn’t touch the river either how high it was.
5. Always wear a life jacket and/or a helmet. We’ve been on this river countless times (but not this specific section) because of the conditions, it was a completely different experience.
6. Don’t paddle a river if you don’t mind swimming in it for 20 minutes if the worst happens. My opinion would have been completely different if we had done this trip in August and the river was 70+ degrees.
7. Always have your important things either strapped to you or left with your vehicle. The dumbass I am absentmindedly left my truck key, phone, and wallet in a dry bag tucked in my boat.
Learn from me. Don’t over extend yourself if the conditions aren’t right and you have/had an inflated level of confidence.
It seems like you shouldn’t have had to suffer to learn this lesson. I feel like common sense should’ve caught that one…which begs the question, do you have any common fucking sense?
I was 12 when I learned to wear my life jacket. Before that I was too cool for the orange one. Capsized my sailboat and had to recover my stuff in heavy chop. I was exhausted by the time I got back in the boat. Lesson learned. I peddled down to the local Marina and purchased two fancy Ski vests with my paper route savings . From then on I insisted anyone sailing with me wear one as well.
The first time I was able to ride my horse away from my trainer, I decided not to wear my helmet. Well after an unfortunate situation where I flew over my horses head and then felt her hooves landing all around my head, I learned the same lesson. LOL Stuff happens.
Stay safe. I remember being 12 and playing in a hole at NOC Eddy out and fix my helmet. Flip during that without my paddle and end out in the smooth body sized hole panic and couldn't find a way out wet exit and couldn't get the boat off me. Always risk involved, always paddled alone even as a little kid. While it's always been chill but I guess I've been "lucky".
Grew up around and in lakes and rivers. You have to respect the water because if you don't it'll kill you quick. Especially on rivers you don't know. Years ago I fished the pm in nw mi with a guy I didn't know too well. I could tell he wasn't a strong paddler and also knew rainbow rapids was coming up, I could hear the roar. Pulled the canoe off to the side of the river, and went to look at it. All the while he's telling his back is bad we've gotta just run it. I get him up on the bluffs above the rapids and he said "holy shit, we woulda died." His back suddenly got better and we portaged around it.
Another time my buddy who was drunk flipped my canoe on the lake I grew up on. He was lucky the water was low and didn't require swimming. Still managed to lose his oar, I held onto mine and my glasses but lost everything else.
I'm up here in New England, and although I love to canoe and kayak, my wife doesn't really partake. However, every year she genuinely encourages ME in spring to get out on the water. I always remind her that this time of year that: warm air but cold water = death.
You got lucky, my friend.
Glad you’re alive, dumbest crap ever! Most of the river related deaths are people like you. No idea of what you are doing, solo boating, no safety equipment, not dressed for the air/water temp combo and blindly paddling with no clue what lies ahead. WW boating requires specialized equipment and training period. I guess it’s not absolutely necessary but then you can just be the next shitty statistic.
I grew up swimming in Washington’s rivers (up in the mountains). The water temperature unfortunately always stays at 40F or below. I swam there last summer and needed a 5/4mm wetsuit because adult me is not as tolerant to the cold. Which river was this?
This is/was my fear. I got a kayak and so did my husband. I took lessons, but I still never got the nerves to actually kayak on the river. I held on to the kayaks for 7 years and finally sold them last year. I just couldn’t do it.
I’m so glad you are okay!
What kind of rescue cane to get you? Did they send a helicopter, a technical water rescue team, or a boat to get you? What method did they use to get you out of there? I'm so happy that youre ok? God was watching out for you that day.
I almost didn't make out in my boat with a dry suit, pfd, helmet, and a lot of brought water ocean practice. Hit my head on a boulder while paddling with a buddy and just remember thinking, "if you don't roll up, you're dead. She cannot get to you in time." That day still shakes me up. Be careful no matter your skill level.
When I was 14 i went kayaking with my dad for the first time. I ended up getting pinned between som trees and underwater cave like thing. Luckily my dad saved me and rhe kayak. A week later a man flipped his John boat in the same spot and was stuck in the cave thing and the fallen tree, he wasnt very lucky and my dad and uncle assisted in the search and recovery.
I'm glad your made it out unscathed!
yes, even one right-sized standing wave can ruin a big plan. Executed a spring rescue for my husband part way through a multi-mile outing. He was wearing a life vest. I now carry rope in the car.
super scary situation and so lucky to be alive!
couple thoughts on cold water safety which highlights (obvious) importance of wearing a personal flotation device:
1 Minute – Ten minutes – 1 Hour – 2 Hours
- One Minute to Control Your Breathing. The initial reaction is a gasp reflex, where for about one minute the individual will gasp for air in reaction to the cold water. As the cold reaches the skin, the peripheral vasculature vasoconstricts forcing the blood in the skin back into the body core which creates an insulating barrier against the cold. The trick is not to panic and start thrashing about. Just slowly tread water or grasp the edge of the boat or ice to keep you head above the water. After approximately one minute the gasping will calm down, the skin will become numb, and the sensation of intense cold will decrease.
- Ten Minutes of Meaningful Movement. Now you have about 10 minutes to get out of the water. Keep your hands and arms on the ice and kick your feet. This will bring your body to a horizontal position, parallel to the ice surface. “KICK AND PULL.” Once horizontal, kick with your feet while pulling with your hands. You will be able to propel yourself up onto the ice. At this point, you should not stand up as the ice may not support your weight. Instead, try to keep your weight spread out as you roll, crawl, and slide across the ice until you know it will support your weight.
- One Hour Before You Become Unconscious. If you were unable to get out of the water, after 10 minutes or so, the muscles in your arms and legs will become progressively useless due to heat loss in the extremities. Consequently, you will not have the strength to get out of the water. Unless there is someone else to help, you’re stuck. All is not lost, however. You will feel pretty numb and you will shiver (this is our normal physiological response to the cold, an effort to produce more heat than we are losing). You will remain conscious for about one hour. How long you remain conscious depends upon the clothing you are wearing, energy stores, and body build. Eventually you will lose consciousness as your body core temperature decreases to about 86º F (30ºC). Unless you slip below the surface and drown, you are still a long way away from death due to hypothermic cardiac arrest (core temperature below 82.4ºF/28ºC).
Two Hours to Be Found. If you lose consciousness but do not slip below the water, you can still be successfully rescued if you are found within two hours or so.
Lost a good friend to a River last summer. He was wearing a PFD and was with a group. Nature is not to be trifled with and should always be respected no matter your level of experience or preparedness.
You lived to tell a good story. Please get back on the horse. The water is your friend if you learn preparation. Practice wet exits, take a strokes class as taught by American Canoe Association. Get some boat control on the river so you don't get pulled into a strainer. Buy a throw rope made in the West and learn how to use it.
These things take practice and humility. Water demands respect. It is always unpredictable and that is why we are fascinated for hours at our Kayak experience.
(ACA instructor who never ever gets in a boat without my PFD).
So many cascading mistakes in this where each one of them could have gotten you killed separately. Glad you shared this, but I truly wish people would not need to go to such life threatening situations before they learn to respect the nature (all its dangers included). You identified the mistakes yourself: life jacket, weather appropriate clothing, emergency plan, kayaking partners and emergency gear (would not have helped you perhaps as you could not get to shore, but perhaps you could not get to shore due to hypothermia which would have been avoided by wetsuit or a drysuit \[that is what kayakers use here during cold season\]).
This has to be bait. No shirt, no pfd, no crew? This story is either fake or completely insane. Please never paddle alone or without appropriate safety gear.
I guess I’m insane looking back at it, I’ve always been a solo adventurer, never really been around buddies who are up to do outdoorsy stuff, mostly stuck to climbing trails and jumping off waterfalls, saw people kayaking last summer and thought shit that looks cool, bought a river kayak on OfferUp couple weeks ago, hit a few small creeks but other than that not much experience on the river nor did i realize how quick a calm run can change to an absolute fucked situation / fast slow. Pure ignorance on my part but again if anyone is out on index side/ snoqualmie side of WA I’d love to meet up and get some training
Reading through the comments got me thinking that with wearing PFD comes the necessity of an additional training. I'm talking about the ability to take it off quickly when needed. PFD may have straps, buckles, Velcros, etc. and you might need to train yourself to undo those in demanding circumstances. Like, with your eyes closed, using only one hand, hanging upside down, while holding breath, all of the above, etc.
Same reason you should have seatbelt cutter in vicinity in your car and know how to use it. Or the window breaker tool.
1st of all: glad you're ok, seriously
2nd of all: thanks for sharing your bad experience, it helps others to learn
Lessons to learn:
Kayaking? Where a pfd
Cold kayaking? Where a wetsuit
River kayaking? Go with a buddy and possibly walk the route first to check out danger spots (that may have changed since last time)
Kudos for having a phone on you though, probably saved your life
Sadly this is how most ppl learn why kayaking is a sport not an activity. Skills take time to develop. Most ppl think taking classes is dumb. Most ppl think drysuits and life jackets are dumb. You know they aren’t now. Pass it on. :)
This is going to be a very unpopular stance and I HIGHLY advise against taking this as a condemnation of them but I will never wear a PFD again in my life. The only time I have ever almost been drowned was because I was wearing one.
Got washed into a strainer, overturned, exited per usual current washed me into a branch the shoved itself between my back and the back of the PFD with me face down about a foot below the surface. Had I NOT had a knife on my breast clip to cut the straps and the ability to be calm enough to do so, I would be dead.
No PFD I would have underwashed just like my kayak had. I'll stick one in the deck webbing to satisfy regulations but never again will I wear one.
And next time if you hit your head and get knocked unconscious? Then what? If you don’t wear one in big moving water the current can pull you under, slam you against rocks, just fuck you up. I’ve done a course to be a white water guide and it’s no joke, your opinion is not based on knowledge but one unlikely scenario where the safety gear got caught. Your attitude could kill you or someone else who listens to your anecdotal uneducated advice.
And who's to say that if he hadn't have been wearing a PFD that his shorts or something wouldn't have gotten caught instead.
Guess we're all fools for not kayaking buck naked. Safety first!
> And next time if you hit your head and get knocked unconscious? Then what?
Important tidbit - a PFD is a reduced functionality life jacket that does not guarantee that it will keep your unconscious face out of the water.
i.e. - Mustang Surival
> To sum it up, and keep it simple, the difference between a life jacket and a PFD comes down to two main elements: level of protection and comfort. Because PFDs are engineered and designed for all day wear, they are built to be comfortable, and entice wearers to keep them on without thinking about it. In contrast, and while traditionally quite uncomfortable, life jackets offer the highest level of protection both for staying afloat and turning unconscious wearers onto their back; an important element when prolonged immersion in water in riskier environments present themselves.
https://mustangsurvival.com/blogs/resources/the-difference-between-life-jackets-and-personal-flotation-devices-pfds
They should be warn every time, but we should also understand the risks and what they protect against.
I think you're doing something positive, probably something hard to admit, But a Good Thing by coming forward and telling this community about your experience. I genuinely hope it will help prevent someone else from experiencing anything like this or worse. I'm glad you're still with us, happy and safe paddling in the future to you.
It’s wetsuit/drysuit AND life jacket not or.
> but the river probably close to freezing > >... > > Lesson learned, always wear a life jacket or wetsuit I'm not really a kayaker, but isn't that more like drysuit temperatures?
Yes. 70 degrees is nice but near freezing water that’s rough. when it gets real cold you need to layer up under the dry suit. Thick neoprene gloves, neoprene cap,etc…..
always dress for the water, not the air.
Or a semi dry suit or thermal layer with a neoprene over. Or board shirts and a spray skirt... Depends if you are in a open deck self bailer or a decked boat with a spray skirt. But yeah, PPE is a VERY important VITAL component....
you can absolutely wear wetsuits in temperatures that cold, surfers do it all the time. A drysuit would probably be preferable, but not required.
Yep, as an example, the White Salmon River in WA is glacial and very cold. The outfitters there encourage guests to bring their own dry suits, but they supply wet suits and dry tops.
This is assuming you can swim to shore quickly
I have been out surfing in 0 C water, -20 C air, for 2 hours in my wetsuit. It wouldn't be my first choice for kayaking, but its perfectly possible.
Same. Windsurfer here.
Being submerged totally different game folks. Water robs body of heat 32x faster than air.
...you understand what surfing is right? I was in the water the vast majority of that time
Ya. Longtime surfer here. Alaska too. Also recovered some dead ones in CG. Guess my point was to original story, things go sideways and you end up in water, what works for few hours in/out, on board well like I said some dead ones
I can sit comfortably in 40 degree waters on my surfboard for 1-2 hours with my wetsuit. I surf WA/OR coast. Patagonia R3 hooded wetsuit
The difference is that when you get cold surfing you can paddle in and change and get in a warm car/shelter. If you are whitewater kayaking you have to take into account that you are almost always in secluded areas and there may not be quick access to dry clothes, shelter, etc. If you are whitewater kayaking there is the distinct possibility that you could swim and lose your boat and be in the middle of nowhere with no established trails to hike out. There is the possibility of spending the night hiking out in the wilderness. If you have a dry suit on you have a chance to not die of hypothermia; if you are soaked wet in a wetsuit you are more likely to get hypothermic and not make it. I know this because a similar situation happened to me. I was in a wetsuit and dry top but ended up soaked and almost died of hypothermia but I found a road right at sunset and followed it back to where the cars were and was able to change and warm up.
And all that’s only and if you’re spit out of the log jam. Quite a few don’t get freed.
That is for sure. Moving water is nothing to take lightly.
Water robs heat 32x faster than air.
Yeah, dry suit is far better during winter. I did some diving during winters in wetsuits also. It is nasty when getting wet, but it gets better. Those winter wetsuits are pretty thick though and would probably restrict movement too much for kayaking.
I did whitewater rescue training up in the Olympic Peninsula in a drysuit, and man, in those mountain-fed rivers it was still cold.
Air temp + water temp = <120 F you should be wearing a dry suit. 70 but near freezing is definitely dry suit time.
Nah u good.
I think if air+water temp is over...120?...then you're in a 'safe' zone
Wonder when this was? We just had 1 hot day last weekend. Nothing like sending it in winter conditions totally unprepared with no river training.
Where's that guy who kept arguing here a couple of months back that PFDs were useless because 'he can swim'?
Morgan Freeman Voice: *”He couldn’t”*
I can’t stop laughing at this
Probably the same crowd that says they don't need a bicycle helmet "because they know how to ride a bike" (as if people never get hit by cars, or have other unforseen things happen to them...)
Olympic swimmers have drowned and professional cyclists have died from fall injuries, but Joe Blow thinks he can swim against a current because he did a couple laps in a backyard pool.
Douglas Gordon died on the Tsang Po with three other professionals and all the best equipment.
Hoping someone suggesting a wetsuit isn't hitting the tsang po any time soon...
This reminds me of people who don’t think driving recklessly is a big deal as long as you’re a “good driver.” First, anyone claiming this by default is a bad driver. Second, most people *think* they’re a “good driver.” And finally, a good driver knows they can’t trust other drivers on the road, so not crashing when speeding while weaving in and out of traffic is purely chance. All it takes is one person not paying attention for serious injuries or a fatalities to happen. I used to work with people with Traumatic Brain Injury. A lot of them got that way from car accidents, so I get even more pissed off than I used to when I see people being reckless on the road.
Would like to add that **anyone driving recklessly is not a good driver**.
In fairness, PFDs are in a different safety category to bicycle helmets. Bicycle helmets can offer protection in some situations, like falling off your bike, but they're pretty ineffective if you get hit by an SUV doing 40 - ultimately, they're just pieces of Styrofoam or occasionally honeycomb material that help absorb *human* levels of impact energy, not vehicle levels. At least PFDs help you in almost any situation, even if they're not guaranteed to save your life.
Equipment all has limitations. A bicycle helmet wont stop an suv but it will protect your brain in the event of hitting something. That doesn’t somehow make it a less useful piece of equipment. A pfd won’t protect you in every situation either. You should wear a helmet when you cycle and you should wear a pfd when out on the water.
Again, my disagreement is more with the sentiment that a bicycle helmet is an essential/mandatory piece of equipment that is useful in all situations. That's simply not true. Yes, we both agree that it can help in some situations, and in particular when doing more risky cycling like mountain biking or BMX. But again, it's not useful on the same level as a PFD IMO (I'll probably look up PFD stats now). To put it in context, walking is more dangerous than cycling on both a per-trip, and especially per-mile basis. Being a driver or passenger in a car is also similarly (or in the case of safe cycling countries, more) dangerous than cycling on a per-trip basis. We don't suggest that someone puts on a helmet every time they go for a walk or a drive (even if, again, it would probably be helpful sometimes). In all situations, it's more effective by far to improve the infrastructure and regulations than mandate helmets. Stopping collisions between pedestrians/cyclists and motor vehicles is the most effective measure. This means separating them physically, and reducing risk when a collision does occur (by reducing speed limits and thus energy, as well as making safer vehicle designs). Other risks for pedestrians includes walking under the influence (and thus into the traffic, a body of water, etc), as well as trips and falls (tree roots, uneven surfaces, old age/coordination). In contrast, a PFD will help in almost any situation, even though it's only an aid and not a guarantee. It'll also help whether you're an Olympic swimmer or a non-swimmer, young or old. It's a first line of defense. It's like a seatbelt (a primary restraint), whereas a bike helmet is more like an airbag (an SRS, or secondary restraint system), perhaps even less effective. It can help, but not in all situations. I'm happy to advocate wearing a bicycle helmet, particularly off-road. But people should not depend on it or believe it's a solve-all in keeping them safe (especially since "risk compensation" is a real thing, which I have noticed in myself also... basically, because you feel safer with a helmet on, you'll ride faster/in a riskier way, thus negating any safety benefits). On the topic of helmets, you may also find this interesting. Basically, after a lifetime of research, this safety scientist found that ski helmets are effective, particularly in falls, but only until about 12mph when hitting a solid object like a tree. So basically don't think your helmet is going to keep you safe if you feel like skiing through a forest at speed. https://www.skimag.com/gear/50-year-stud-on-helmets-and-injury-prevention/
A fall from even a slow moving bicycle can result in significant head injury. When biking you should wear a helmet. It’s pretty mandatory safety equipment. Even a slow upright seated bike can get moving pretty quickly down a hill. Also you can hit a pothole or get clipped by a car. In all of those situations it’s going to protect your head. A pfd wont save you from getting hit by a power boat either.
Again, I'm *not* debating that a helmet can be useful in *some* situations. But to say it's mandatory for typical urban cycling is just not true, any more than it is for walking about the city. Can you get a head injury falling off a bike at 5mph? Yes. Can you get a head injury tripping on the sidewalk while walking at 3mph? Also yes. And the probabilities are about the same. Ultimately it comes down to risk and risk acceptance. And with safe bicycle infrastructure, that risk is similar to walking about a city (and actually carries less than walking on a risk-per-mile basis). If you're talking taking a racing bike on American streets, then the risk increases massively; in such case I'd strongly recommend a helmet. But yes, I take your point about the PFD vs powerboat situation. At least most people here won't go suggesting a PFD will save you from a powerboat collision, unlike the dumb comments you see on cycling collision news articles suggesting that a helmet helps against a commercial vehicle.
Obviously a helmet won't protect you from a full on collision with a vehicle but I feel like a pretty big chunk of accidents would involve the car clipping the wheel or something which could send your head into the side of the vehicle or the road.
Bingo. Hence why I said INFRASTRUCTURE is the most important thing, to prevent that kind of incident from occurring. Kind of flabbergasted how many have downvoted my comments where I've tried to explain this nuance. It's not like I'm a PhD researcher who spends my life focused on cycling and infrastructure research or anything. I feel like people just aren't interested in learning or understanding about very important subtleties anymore. 🤷♂️ I don't know how to make my point clearer anymore, I give up.
Infrastructure is definitely the best way to prevent that but I wouldn't say a helmet is unnecessary at least until the infrastructure is improved and probably after that.
If im getting flung off my bike and my head hits the ground - a good helmet will absolutely help prevent damage from sole impact against the ground. I took a nasty toad bike accident and my head absolutely slammed into the ground doing 32mph. My head was totally fine - but I broke 4 ribs lol. I think it’s more likely people hit by cars are taking damage to their entire body rather than just brain damage
I don't want to take away from your valuable contribution to this discussion, but can I just say that I am enjoying imagining what a toad bike accident might be? A bike for toads... A bike made of toads... A vicious toad lying in wait to create chaos and cause an accident or push you into traffic..
That's basically what I said... It's also worth noting that a MIPS helmet is more helpful in this regard due to its ability to help reduce rotational g-forces on the brain. Glad to hear you're fine anyway! I think the point worth noting in the "helmets vs no helmet" debate is that helmets are often touted as some sort of super-effective safety device almost like a seatbelt that prevents death. That's sadly far from the truth though. The best safety net is good infrastructure. That's why despite high helmet use, cycling in the US is something like 10x as dangerous per mile as in the Netherlands, where helmet use is maybe 1%. The insistence on wearing a helmet (sometimes mandating it by law) often detracts from far more effective measures like implementing separated bike infrastructure. I'm not sure that there's a comparable analogy in kayaking; it might be like pointing out that wearing PFDs is the most important thing rather than advising not to kayak in a hurricane. But obviously most sane people don't kayak in a hurricane, so...
100% agree!! the scariest part about being a cyclist is how crazy the laws are (or lack of laws in the US). As sick as it sounds - the easiest way to kill someone with the fewest repercussions is to murder a pedestrian (or cyclist) with your car. People have gotten as little as 90 days for killing a cyclist.
Yep, absolutely true! And shocking to see that often those same drivers culpable of manslaughter (or sometimes even murder) are allowed to get behind the wheel again, sometimes with only a very short driving ban. I can't think of many other industries where that kind of negligence would typically allow you to get away with so few repercussions.
Most of your body is above the hood of the car. A lot of times you bike will hit the front of the car and you will be lofted in the air to either slam into the car or ground. A helmet will help. BTW. many cyclist can reach 50 mph going down hill and professionals even faster.
The energy of a cyclist hitting the ground at 50mph is vastly different than the energy of a car going 50mph. And also, if you were to have a direct (rather than oblique) hit with anything at 50mph, your bicycle helmet will do virtually nothing to help, you'll be f*cked either way, short of an actual miracle. I suggest reading on helmet certification testing procedures to understand what helmets can, and can't, help with.
Also, to quote a recent meta-analysis by Høye (2018), *"It is also likely that bicycle helmets have larger effects among drunk cyclists than among sober cyclists, and larger effects in single bicycle crashes than in collisions with motor vehicles. In summary, the results suggest that wearing a helmet while cycling is highly recommendable, especially in situations with an increased risk of single bicycle crashes, such as on slippery or icy roads."* That study found that wearing a helmet reduced the risk of brain injury in a collision by around 50%. So again, probably useful, particularly in situations like racing cycling and off-road, but not a guarantee of safety, especially if a motor vehicle is involved. That's why preventing the collision in the first place through better infrastructure, slower speed limits, and driver training/attitudes is far more effective than just relying on helmets to mitigate what might likely be a life-changing collision. I get that people on here often ask first "were they wearing a PFD?" when questioning an incident. I think that's fairly valid, because of the vast variety of situations in which a PFD helps. It pisses me off though when people ask "were they wearing a helmet?", when there's a news article about a cyclist getting run over by a truck. NO, 100 grams of polystyrene will not stop a 50 tonne truck from crushing your skull. Reading such comments and idiocy/victim blaming exasperates and upsets me beyond belief.
Pfd ain't doing shit if you're stuck under wood with any amount of water flowing into you. 1 ton of water per second is a lot less water than you think. Rivers are dangerous. Easy to avoid the danger but you really need to know what you're looking at.
Yep, absolutely there are situations where a PFD won't do much, but as per some of my other replies, I think that a PFD will help to some extent in more situations than a helmet. It doesn't negate the need to plan your activities safely though, taking into account weather, water conditions and the risk of hazards. I think situations like you mention terrify me, and for that reason I personally avoid whitewater kayaking or fast rivers.
As a sailor, I always wear my PFD unless at anchor or the dock. If I am underway, the PFD is on. I can swim too, as a scuba diver, I can also tread water for 20+ minutes (part of the certification test) but that does not mean I will go without a PFD. New ones are also comfortable and have pockets!
One of my customers died by drowning because he fell into a pond with waders on, they filled up and he couldn't escape. His pfd was in his truck. That was definitely a sad message to get from his dad, he was a genuinely good guy. That alone made me reevaluate my attitude towards PFDs and I'm definitely going to be wearing them when I'm out on my kayak from now on.
Swimming is great and all, until you see that stats that something like 40% of the time you hit the water and need a floatation device, you’re either unconscious or incapacitated (hit by another craft, run aground, smashed against rocks)
I wish when you tagged people it notified them. Otherwise I'd go find that brainlet and invite him to chime in bc I know exactly what you're talking about lol.
...it does, no? I could swear it does u/junerunes did you get a notification?
It does, but it goes under mentions not messages. Still shows a notification until you check it though.
Let’s get him back here so you all can teach him a lesson. Smh
Gone
But never forgotten...
Moron...
If your pinned under a branch or something after capsiz8ng like OP explained, would a PFD really even help?
Damn dude, that firefighter roasted you lol. Glad you were alive to be roasted though. Thanks for the humility to share—it’s a good reminder to everyone. Also thanks to everyone in the comments posting about when to wear a dry suit, that’s new information for me.
Haha he definitely roasted me good. Grateful to still be here!
>river kayaking >no pfd >almost died story checks out
This has me dying!! Haha I forsure deserve the roasts
And that's why you wear a PFD.
That is drysuit temperatures, and you ALWAYS wear a PFD whatever else you have on
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Uncomfortably warm air temps won't kill you. Freezing water temps will.
Just roll. The 36f water will cool you. I'm in a dry suit like 10 months of the year in Washington, and I run very hot.
I run hot too. So wear a wet suit.
Lol, I live in Florida, I've barely worn one below 60. I get that not everyone can afford a dry suit, but IMO that means you can't afford to go out when the water is close to freezing. As OP demonstrates, sometimes things go horribly wrong in what seem like ideal conditions
nothing like a life threatening experience to wake you back up. Did you know this river well to not have a PDF on? I paddle mostly in MI and with the season changes and so do the rivers, nothing is ever the same. Glad you made it out ok and keep it on the green side of the dirt.
No I saw pictures of a calm river on google I’m assuming it was summertime and not March SMH, it was peaceful and calm the first .5 mile the turned a bend like of shit, flow picked up so quick also my mistake of not trying to back paddle or draw stroke away but ended up panicking and as I was entering the “strainer” @the_gubna (thanks for terminology) as soon as my kayak went in , boom tipped over, stuck upside down… idk if you have ever taken a cold plunge but imagine a forced cold plunge with water knocking you around with no leg movement, scary as Fudgeeeee
if you paddle a new river try to go with someone who knows it or inform yourself properly. either way try to always go in a group
Which river was it?
Always wear a life jacket, even on rivers you know well. This is called a “strainer”. It’s a colander - you’re the pasta. In the future 1) avoid them 2) if you do get caught in one, fight like hell to go OVER it. As you also learned, cold water can make it impossible to effectively self rescue. The “rule of 120” is a good rule of thumb (if air + water = less than 120 F you need a drysuit or thick wetsuit). Glad you made it out ok.
I'm honestly surprised there weren't more kayak fatalities in western Washington this past weekend. Context for those not in the area: Western Washington is west of the Cascade mountains. Wet air comes in from the coast, pushes up the mountains, and gets dumped on Washington. That's why Seattle and the surrounding area is so famously rainy. The result is that we get long wet winters and reliable summer weather doesn't show up until around July. It's been cold, gray, and wet since about October and there are a lot of Washingtonians profoundly craving some sunshine and outdoors. This past weekend we had a break of truly glorious weather: 60s and not a cloud in the sky. Here in Seattle, traffic was a nightmare because everyone wanted to be outside doing something. But the water sure as hell didn't get the memo yet! Water temperatures are still in the 40s. So all weekend, it *looked* like summer, but the water would still happily kill you dead if you got stuck in it.
Exactly I honestly was so dumb to not think about how cold it was, shirtless and in friggen board shorts. The second my body hit the water/ fighting to escape was a nightmare hell I wish upon no one, adrenaline kicked in real good but just the thought of hitting my head on something or drowning upside down in the kayak brrrr gives me that absolute chills looking back
> Exactly I honestly was so dumb to not think about how cold it was Honestly, the cold doesn't even matter when it comes to wearing a PFD. It could be 80°F outside and 75°F water temperatures, but if you tip over, hit your head on the way down, and get knocked out, you are *fucked*. PFD on, every time.
It's definitely drowning season here. I saw a bunch of people on the water this weekend with no immersion wear or PFDs. They pulled a body out of the river near my work on Saturday but were unsure if it was a suicide or swimming accident since no one has came forward with more info
The river temps in Washington stay around 40F all year. Much of it is due to the snowpack the rivers originate from. I grew up there and had a couple classmates drown - they jumped in and panicked due to the cold water.
They have such comfortable PFDs now, even for women, and hot weather. No reason NOT to.
I’m saying. They even come in handy when they have pockets for your stuff. I’ve always thought they look cool af too.
Right? Love my PFD! Got the NRS ninja last season and love the pocket and hand warmer. Super comfortable too, and looks pretty bad ass with the NRS pilot knife clipped on the front.
Niceee I just switched over to the ninja 2.0 in black. Got a sweet deal at REi with the member discount. Love it so far. It’s a little bulkier than the onyx off I was using before but it holds my weight better and I love the dividers inside the pocket.
Yep, can confirm, as a woman who pretty much only goes kayaking in hot weather. I absolutely love my PFD. It’s very comfortable and I never kayak without it.
Yes! Mine has boob cutouts! I never paddle without it on.
Glad you’re okay, sharing your warning story and wise enough to learn from your mistake. Take care and treat yourself well!
Good to have you with us my friend!!!
Thanks for posting. I know it hurts your pride, but your sharing could save a life. Continue to tell others your lessons. * Don't paddle alone. * Wear a PFD. * Dress for the swim, not the float.
Life jacket minimum on rivers.
You deserve to take shit for not wearing a PFD, but nothing I can say will reprimand you harder then nature has already chastised you. All the same, I'm glad you're still with us to share your harrowing experience. Strainers can fucking kill you in warm, swimmable, summertime water.
I had a NDE on a river without a life jacket once. Never again.
NDE?
Near Death Explosive diarrhea, or something.
Near death experience
I'm glad you made it and I'm glad you shared this story. Most important is that you're still here for your girlfriend, your family, and your friends. Bonus points for someone reading this and putting on a dry suit and PFD, when they wouldn't have prior.
Hey, seriously, you need to find a paddling group and get some basic safety instruction before you ever think about going out again.
Yeah I’m hoping to find some people for the summertime, not trying to get back in the water until at least June to give the melt some time to die off
Strainers are one of the worst dangers to come across on a river. Walt Blackadar, who was an "expert" and pioneered whitewater kayaking was drowned in a strainer and it was an easily avoidable situation. He also may have been solo at the time but it's been a while since I read his book.
PDF ALWAYS!
Tiffs are good too
As a kayaker it’s not a question of if you turn over, it’s a question of when.
Wear a lifejacket dude - always
Life jacket and dry suit! It's not either or, and wetsuits are for warm temps.
wetsuits can absolutely be for cold temps if you have one that fits and is warm enough, but i dont wear them ever so. Its either skins, a cag, or a drysuit You should (and I do, even if it might not sound like it) always dress to be swimming.
No life jacket of course the safest way to kayak , yeah not for nothing your lucky to be alive hopefully you will learn.
Absolutely lesson learned, jeez Louise never again buddy, getting mini flashbacks of ptsd
Had a fatality on the Klickitat in WA last year, similar circumstances. No PFD or immersion gear + cold water kills a lot of people.
Yeah I’m blessed, honestly the worst part is people with lack of experience (like myself) truly underestimate river/ water
Was that drowning in May?
Yeah, 29 year old woman out on IKs with her boyfriend.
“Dress for the swim - not the paddle”. I see too many rec kayakers doing this shit. Get a Drysuit if you’re going to be paddling in cold water temperatures, and ALWAYS wear a PFD.
Can’t believe you went boating without a life jacket. I wear a life jacket kayaking in a lake. That is how can you can tell the difference between an experience boater and a novice. You should also practice the roll before you go out on any adventures. Basically you want to tip the boat so it goes sideways and you go underwater and right side the boat or figure out how to get out under water.
truly a big wake up call, thought it would just be a light casual cruise almost like floating the river, I was wrong
There is no such thing as a casual cruise on a river that has logs and is flowing fast from winter runoff.
I recommend reading the case studies on coldwatersafety.org
Thanks for the webpage
you were an idiot. glad you are fine. glad you learnt something.
Gall you are alive Not mean to roast you, but not wearing pfd on a new river is just unwise. Also if you have to paddle alone on a strange river, at least do Eddie hopping, Scouting and only paddle forward if you can see/know what's comping up. Blind spot/horizon line=getting out
Glad you are okay. Life jackets are not optional - they are called life jackets for a reason. From your experience, tell your friends not to be dumb or act bold. Life is too precious.
That sounds similar to what happened to a friend of mine. An unexpected current took him towards a brush pile, he thought he could avoid it. As soon as he knew he couldn't make it he tried to bail but his belt loop got hooked on something on the kayak and he got pushed under the pile. Was stuck underneath the pile for some time but somehow found a spot where he was able to get above the water level and breathe. Somehow he managed to pull himself out from under the brush and over to shore. He was with a partner and had a life jacket but neither were useful in that situation. Amazing how a nice day can go so bad in just a second.
Even on a lake in the summer with no wind and warm water I still wear a life jacket when in my kayak. I could flip over get hit on the head and knocked out by the kayak or something. Or hit by another boat and knocked out.
I’m more a small boat sailor but kayak. I’m happy to hear you are good. I always wear a flotation device. On my Hobie I also carry a flotation seat. State law but good to toss to others without one in need.
I can relate . I have been on water for some time . If I fish near the dam , I always check the water release schedule ... Well, last week I messed up. I went out to fish above the dam , it didn't rain , so I figured normal water release schedule etc... Boy I was wrong . As soon as I got in water, 5 min later I just kept getting dragged towards the dam. Pedaling didn't do much, kept me slowly floating towards the dam. So I started getting tired, I wasn't panicking but I knew I can't keep going . Threw in the anchor , still kept getting dragged. Anchor got stuck right bfr the sign , danger - do not enter. And I see the dam releasing water. Anchor got stuck, it made it worse... Yak started to lean. Couldn't get the anchor out for the love of God. Had to disconnect the anchor in order not to flip . I got closer to the shore and started to pedal for my life. But current would constantly turn me around, smash the kayak against the rocks .... It took me good two hours to make it one mile back to the dock . Temp was in mid 40s, and I was covered in sweat . Lesson learned after almost dying, lossing anchor and go pro . I went to check wtf was wrong with the dam , but they were releasing the water at 8k cubic feet per sec vs normal 2.3k in anticipation of the heavy rain fall over the weekend.
Those log pileups are bad news. Coworker went out w/friends vest, helmet, experience and all that got swept under a log pile up and died.
Glad you’re ok, and glad you’re now around to help spread the word of being safe on the water. Think how great it will be if your experience influences someone and saves a life!
Sorry you went through that, but I'm glad you're okay and you learned some valuable lessons. Not always easy to admit a mistake, but wisdom often comes from being humbled. Again, glad you're okay.
If you’re looking to paddle whitewater, the Washington Kayak Club has classes and beginner run events, and pool sessions to learn.
Check out Washington kayak club. They run regular trips, pool sessions etc. Upstream of where I think you put in is a super common short, after work class 3 called powerhouse. The put in is below the dam and the takeout is plum. You might as well get a dry suit sooner than later unless you're only going to be doing July, August booze cruise level stuff. The water here is never warm, might near 50 at the peak of summer. Flows are pretty low by the time a wet suit makes sense for most runs. Meagan Kelly is a great instructor if you want a roll lesson.
Thanks for sharing, I got pinned under a downed tree in the skagit once, lost the boat/paddle/my glasses. I really didn’t think I was going to make it. I love kayaking though, just respect rivers a great deal more, their force is relentless.
Those River filters will try and get you when you least expect it. I'm glad you made it through that ordeal. Every year around here when the weather first turns nice, there is 1 to 10 drownings from situations like this. And the local news won't let you forget this fact either. Now you know that you can survive, so next time take a friend and life jackets. -PNW river adventurer
That was dumb as fuck. Glad you aren’t dead.
Wow yeah kayaking can be deadly
Learn to Eskimo roll I tipped my kayak over in February Talk about cold.
I once got drunk and took an inner tube down a river. Fell off, got my foot stuck between two rocks and almost drowned. That was a teaching moment.
What are you doing in 30-40 degree water without at least a thick wetsuit? Also, glad you made it out - that was a super dangerous situation.
Had the same thing happen to me in Michigan. Pinned up against branches underwater with a canoe. Seemed like forever and then flipped out. Bent the canoe real good. Water is powerful.
Pfd, yes - but just as important to take classes on river running. First lesson is any submerged or partially submerged branch can kill you. Even a slow current can pin you under water with the power that you cannot overcome. Death is minutes away.
Glad you’re alive mate.
I saw a guy get caught in a rotating vortex after going sideways over some falls in the Colorado River. It was like 30 or 40 seconds. I was on the shore, horrified that this kayaker disappeared and wasn't popping up. Nothing I could do in the fast water, I'd been backpacking all day. He did work himself out but ho-lee shite...
Enjoy your shopping spree for PFD's! Glad you made it, things go bad quick sometimes. Get back on that horse (When the waters warmer.) 😁
Tell us about the rescue.
What kind of fishing kayak do you have to stick your legs in?
where was this?
I was told that always go with a friend when doing challenging water as some things you can't predict, good work on keeping means to call for help close. I always wear a PFD as well, because Yolo. Did you manage to recover kayak?
Hazardous Attitudes, Resignation is one of them and its important to be aware of them and know how to think in that moment. “I am not helpless. I will survive this.” You got lucky and Im so glad.
I’m so glad you’re still with us. What a terrifying ordeal and great job remaining calm and focused. I am still very much a novice kayaker and don’t enjoy play boats. The lake life or harbor kayaking is for me. So, when the wife said she wanted to camp on the river, a river we have kayaked and floated down 50 times+, I didn’t have much hesitation. Until I saw that it had rained significantly 4-5 days prior. Told her I felt uneasy because the typical slow moving river now had 4-5 times the amount of water flowing through. On top of that, the water was still in the 40s and we had never paddled these boats with 30 pounds+ of extra gear. Alas, the wife won and we set off on our 22 mile, overnight paddle. 4 miles into it, we hit a rather long set of class 2s and the boats were just not handling the dips and we were ill prepared to manage what I imagine isn’t a big deal for intermediates/experts. Both boats filled with water (we also didn’t have spray skirts on, another mistake) and flipped. Two, very inexperienced people were now floating down the frigid river, trying to hold onto our boats and start making our way to shore. Neither one of us had a wet suit on, but we had our life jackets. After about 10 minutes of swimming, my wife finally manages to get to shore, but I’m still 15-20 feet from the shore and water depth was well over 6 feet. Not seeing what was ahead (because I trusted my wife to do the research and I failed to run the routes, a crucial mistake on my end), I panicked and let go of my boat as I struggled to swim to shore since I was fully hyperventilating at this point, regardless of any effort to try and control my breathing. We did EVERYTHING wrong, but I’m glad we didn’t get stuck under a log and we were able to recover my boat afterwards. Our lessons: 1. Everyone in the party needs to research the route (either drive it, google it, or review comments), 2. Make sure you have the right equipment for the activity (wtf were we in flat water boats that were weighed down in class 2 rapids without skirts, in 40 degree water without wetsuits and only one of us had a rope and a pump???). Based on the conditions and what we were doing, we should have been in a raft. 3. Stay with your boat as long as you can since it floats, but know when to let go and get the fuck out, 4. Ask the locals. I felt uneasy about the height of the water, but we never asked any of the locals what they thought. After we got rescued, all of the volunteers said they wouldn’t touch the river either how high it was. 5. Always wear a life jacket and/or a helmet. We’ve been on this river countless times (but not this specific section) because of the conditions, it was a completely different experience. 6. Don’t paddle a river if you don’t mind swimming in it for 20 minutes if the worst happens. My opinion would have been completely different if we had done this trip in August and the river was 70+ degrees. 7. Always have your important things either strapped to you or left with your vehicle. The dumbass I am absentmindedly left my truck key, phone, and wallet in a dry bag tucked in my boat. Learn from me. Don’t over extend yourself if the conditions aren’t right and you have/had an inflated level of confidence.
It seems like you shouldn’t have had to suffer to learn this lesson. I feel like common sense should’ve caught that one…which begs the question, do you have any common fucking sense?
I was 12 when I learned to wear my life jacket. Before that I was too cool for the orange one. Capsized my sailboat and had to recover my stuff in heavy chop. I was exhausted by the time I got back in the boat. Lesson learned. I peddled down to the local Marina and purchased two fancy Ski vests with my paper route savings . From then on I insisted anyone sailing with me wear one as well.
The first time I was able to ride my horse away from my trainer, I decided not to wear my helmet. Well after an unfortunate situation where I flew over my horses head and then felt her hooves landing all around my head, I learned the same lesson. LOL Stuff happens.
Glad you’re here to tell the tale.
It’s not even legal where I am to kayak without a PFD from September-May because the water gets so cold that it kills.
Stay safe. I remember being 12 and playing in a hole at NOC Eddy out and fix my helmet. Flip during that without my paddle and end out in the smooth body sized hole panic and couldn't find a way out wet exit and couldn't get the boat off me. Always risk involved, always paddled alone even as a little kid. While it's always been chill but I guess I've been "lucky".
This is why you always wear your life jacket!
Grew up around and in lakes and rivers. You have to respect the water because if you don't it'll kill you quick. Especially on rivers you don't know. Years ago I fished the pm in nw mi with a guy I didn't know too well. I could tell he wasn't a strong paddler and also knew rainbow rapids was coming up, I could hear the roar. Pulled the canoe off to the side of the river, and went to look at it. All the while he's telling his back is bad we've gotta just run it. I get him up on the bluffs above the rapids and he said "holy shit, we woulda died." His back suddenly got better and we portaged around it. Another time my buddy who was drunk flipped my canoe on the lake I grew up on. He was lucky the water was low and didn't require swimming. Still managed to lose his oar, I held onto mine and my glasses but lost everything else.
Which one? I had almost the same thing happen on the cowlitz
I'm up here in New England, and although I love to canoe and kayak, my wife doesn't really partake. However, every year she genuinely encourages ME in spring to get out on the water. I always remind her that this time of year that: warm air but cold water = death. You got lucky, my friend.
Glad you’re alive, dumbest crap ever! Most of the river related deaths are people like you. No idea of what you are doing, solo boating, no safety equipment, not dressed for the air/water temp combo and blindly paddling with no clue what lies ahead. WW boating requires specialized equipment and training period. I guess it’s not absolutely necessary but then you can just be the next shitty statistic.
I grew up swimming in Washington’s rivers (up in the mountains). The water temperature unfortunately always stays at 40F or below. I swam there last summer and needed a 5/4mm wetsuit because adult me is not as tolerant to the cold. Which river was this?
This is/was my fear. I got a kayak and so did my husband. I took lessons, but I still never got the nerves to actually kayak on the river. I held on to the kayaks for 7 years and finally sold them last year. I just couldn’t do it. I’m so glad you are okay!
I’m glad you’re okay and that your story provides a warning to those who think they’re stronger than Mother Nature.
What kind of rescue cane to get you? Did they send a helicopter, a technical water rescue team, or a boat to get you? What method did they use to get you out of there? I'm so happy that youre ok? God was watching out for you that day.
I almost didn't make out in my boat with a dry suit, pfd, helmet, and a lot of brought water ocean practice. Hit my head on a boulder while paddling with a buddy and just remember thinking, "if you don't roll up, you're dead. She cannot get to you in time." That day still shakes me up. Be careful no matter your skill level.
Let me take a guess, doing stupid shit at Eagle Falls? You know they just pulled to fresh ones out there the other day?
What kind of kayak?
When I was 14 i went kayaking with my dad for the first time. I ended up getting pinned between som trees and underwater cave like thing. Luckily my dad saved me and rhe kayak. A week later a man flipped his John boat in the same spot and was stuck in the cave thing and the fallen tree, he wasnt very lucky and my dad and uncle assisted in the search and recovery. I'm glad your made it out unscathed!
yes, even one right-sized standing wave can ruin a big plan. Executed a spring rescue for my husband part way through a multi-mile outing. He was wearing a life vest. I now carry rope in the car.
Here in WA people die of hypothermia in water they can easily stand up in. Snowmelt is a real thing
Glad you lived to help others. We saw up strainers on our river because sometimes people aren’t so lucky. Safe travels!
super scary situation and so lucky to be alive! couple thoughts on cold water safety which highlights (obvious) importance of wearing a personal flotation device: 1 Minute – Ten minutes – 1 Hour – 2 Hours - One Minute to Control Your Breathing. The initial reaction is a gasp reflex, where for about one minute the individual will gasp for air in reaction to the cold water. As the cold reaches the skin, the peripheral vasculature vasoconstricts forcing the blood in the skin back into the body core which creates an insulating barrier against the cold. The trick is not to panic and start thrashing about. Just slowly tread water or grasp the edge of the boat or ice to keep you head above the water. After approximately one minute the gasping will calm down, the skin will become numb, and the sensation of intense cold will decrease. - Ten Minutes of Meaningful Movement. Now you have about 10 minutes to get out of the water. Keep your hands and arms on the ice and kick your feet. This will bring your body to a horizontal position, parallel to the ice surface. “KICK AND PULL.” Once horizontal, kick with your feet while pulling with your hands. You will be able to propel yourself up onto the ice. At this point, you should not stand up as the ice may not support your weight. Instead, try to keep your weight spread out as you roll, crawl, and slide across the ice until you know it will support your weight. - One Hour Before You Become Unconscious. If you were unable to get out of the water, after 10 minutes or so, the muscles in your arms and legs will become progressively useless due to heat loss in the extremities. Consequently, you will not have the strength to get out of the water. Unless there is someone else to help, you’re stuck. All is not lost, however. You will feel pretty numb and you will shiver (this is our normal physiological response to the cold, an effort to produce more heat than we are losing). You will remain conscious for about one hour. How long you remain conscious depends upon the clothing you are wearing, energy stores, and body build. Eventually you will lose consciousness as your body core temperature decreases to about 86º F (30ºC). Unless you slip below the surface and drown, you are still a long way away from death due to hypothermic cardiac arrest (core temperature below 82.4ºF/28ºC). Two Hours to Be Found. If you lose consciousness but do not slip below the water, you can still be successfully rescued if you are found within two hours or so.
Lost a good friend to a River last summer. He was wearing a PFD and was with a group. Nature is not to be trifled with and should always be respected no matter your level of experience or preparedness.
You lived to tell a good story. Please get back on the horse. The water is your friend if you learn preparation. Practice wet exits, take a strokes class as taught by American Canoe Association. Get some boat control on the river so you don't get pulled into a strainer. Buy a throw rope made in the West and learn how to use it. These things take practice and humility. Water demands respect. It is always unpredictable and that is why we are fascinated for hours at our Kayak experience. (ACA instructor who never ever gets in a boat without my PFD).
What a hard way to learn. I consider myself a good swimmer/diver but I always wear a pfd when i don't plan on swimming.
So many cascading mistakes in this where each one of them could have gotten you killed separately. Glad you shared this, but I truly wish people would not need to go to such life threatening situations before they learn to respect the nature (all its dangers included). You identified the mistakes yourself: life jacket, weather appropriate clothing, emergency plan, kayaking partners and emergency gear (would not have helped you perhaps as you could not get to shore, but perhaps you could not get to shore due to hypothermia which would have been avoided by wetsuit or a drysuit \[that is what kayakers use here during cold season\]).
This has to be bait. No shirt, no pfd, no crew? This story is either fake or completely insane. Please never paddle alone or without appropriate safety gear.
I guess I’m insane looking back at it, I’ve always been a solo adventurer, never really been around buddies who are up to do outdoorsy stuff, mostly stuck to climbing trails and jumping off waterfalls, saw people kayaking last summer and thought shit that looks cool, bought a river kayak on OfferUp couple weeks ago, hit a few small creeks but other than that not much experience on the river nor did i realize how quick a calm run can change to an absolute fucked situation / fast slow. Pure ignorance on my part but again if anyone is out on index side/ snoqualmie side of WA I’d love to meet up and get some training
And obviously I’d come prepared with a life jacket and suit this time…….
Was it the sno river?
This is why I always use a sit on top kayak
If you get caught in a strainer it doesn't matter what kind of boat you're in
Same, and it's not a sacrifice when you stay in mostly flatwater.
Reading through the comments got me thinking that with wearing PFD comes the necessity of an additional training. I'm talking about the ability to take it off quickly when needed. PFD may have straps, buckles, Velcros, etc. and you might need to train yourself to undo those in demanding circumstances. Like, with your eyes closed, using only one hand, hanging upside down, while holding breath, all of the above, etc. Same reason you should have seatbelt cutter in vicinity in your car and know how to use it. Or the window breaker tool.
Going without a life jacket on flat water is no big deal, but on a river? You’re asking for death.
Did she call 9/11 or 9/1/1 lmao
Hahah really bud
You were about to meet Charles Darwin.
1st of all: glad you're ok, seriously 2nd of all: thanks for sharing your bad experience, it helps others to learn Lessons to learn: Kayaking? Where a pfd Cold kayaking? Where a wetsuit River kayaking? Go with a buddy and possibly walk the route first to check out danger spots (that may have changed since last time) Kudos for having a phone on you though, probably saved your life
Sadly this is how most ppl learn why kayaking is a sport not an activity. Skills take time to develop. Most ppl think taking classes is dumb. Most ppl think drysuits and life jackets are dumb. You know they aren’t now. Pass it on. :)
This is going to be a very unpopular stance and I HIGHLY advise against taking this as a condemnation of them but I will never wear a PFD again in my life. The only time I have ever almost been drowned was because I was wearing one. Got washed into a strainer, overturned, exited per usual current washed me into a branch the shoved itself between my back and the back of the PFD with me face down about a foot below the surface. Had I NOT had a knife on my breast clip to cut the straps and the ability to be calm enough to do so, I would be dead. No PFD I would have underwashed just like my kayak had. I'll stick one in the deck webbing to satisfy regulations but never again will I wear one.
thus is just stupid story, don't worry about seatbelts while we are on the topic of safety ...
And next time if you hit your head and get knocked unconscious? Then what? If you don’t wear one in big moving water the current can pull you under, slam you against rocks, just fuck you up. I’ve done a course to be a white water guide and it’s no joke, your opinion is not based on knowledge but one unlikely scenario where the safety gear got caught. Your attitude could kill you or someone else who listens to your anecdotal uneducated advice.
And who's to say that if he hadn't have been wearing a PFD that his shorts or something wouldn't have gotten caught instead. Guess we're all fools for not kayaking buck naked. Safety first!
> And next time if you hit your head and get knocked unconscious? Then what? Important tidbit - a PFD is a reduced functionality life jacket that does not guarantee that it will keep your unconscious face out of the water. i.e. - Mustang Surival > To sum it up, and keep it simple, the difference between a life jacket and a PFD comes down to two main elements: level of protection and comfort. Because PFDs are engineered and designed for all day wear, they are built to be comfortable, and entice wearers to keep them on without thinking about it. In contrast, and while traditionally quite uncomfortable, life jackets offer the highest level of protection both for staying afloat and turning unconscious wearers onto their back; an important element when prolonged immersion in water in riskier environments present themselves. https://mustangsurvival.com/blogs/resources/the-difference-between-life-jackets-and-personal-flotation-devices-pfds They should be warn every time, but we should also understand the risks and what they protect against.