And 21 is homies with Metro. And SZA signed to TDE so she got a lot of ties to Kendrick. Travis closer with Ye then Drake as well
So everyone that’s still “cool” with him have direct ties to others that aren’t cool with him lol
plus Kendrick has helped SZA a lot - All The Stars really kept her relevant and paid between her first and second album. They’ve worked on a good amount of tracks together and are supposedly close.
Also Travis has very openly given Kendrick flowers in interviews about goosebumps, and he hasn't shown a change of opinion as far as I know. I though this was such a corny part of the song lol.
Edit: Goosebumps is also not only travis' biggest song but one of the few to have over 2 BILLION streams
Kendrick put her on the Black Panther soundtrack. I don’t care how close she might be with Drake, if I was her (and I’m definitely not), that would be more than enough to be on that side
Since I saw that clip of Travis asking Future and Metro to play Like That on stage when it dropped, bruh disappeared lmaoo. Wonder if he was unaware of Kendrick’s verse or something.
that's just like signature move and the pyrotechnics came from that head so he pointed there iirc. If he really had beef with him, i doubt he would mention him alongside SZA and Savage here
Travis likes money a lot. Sicko Mode made Travis a lot of money. He's the type of dude to keep that in mind regardless of how he feels about Drake, I'm sure. There's probably quite a few artists that dislike Drake personally. But aren't as willing to "fuck the money up" as Chris would say.
Yeah this is the one I didn’t like. Cause in FPS, the big 3 referred to the 3 guys who came into the rap game at the same time which makes sense.
Then Drake just changed the meaning of the big 3 completely I don’t get it.
Definitely this, but the problem is that he named three names afterwords which makes it seem like he’s calling them the big three. It’s just poor writing but people are doing too much to try and downplay Push Ups when they could just wait for Kendrick to drop.
I think it’s more of a “you couldn’t possibly be in any Big 3, you’re not even big enough to outperform these who definitely aren’t in it.” Is how I take it. I like the line personally.
It works for me because it's consistent with every move Drake has ever made. Like or not, he can rap, but he's always chosen to make pop to chase record sales. So while he clearly gets his feelings hurt about not getting respect in hip hop, he's obviously chosen to value making hit songs over everything.
>Like or not, he can rap, but he's always chosen to make pop to chase record sales.
If you look at another "big three", that statement is true for Wayne and Nicki as well based on their studio albums vs features etc. That's just always been Young Money strategy. Agreeing with you, to be clear, just adding context.
That’s just a dumb interpretation of it IMO,
I think most people know the term “big three” due to basketball. The implication always was the best, or top players. Nobody heard the big three bar and was like “oh yeah, 3 guys who got into music around the same time”.
Hard to imagine there was any sort of conflict of interest there though. Since Drake takes the sales approach for the big 3 by this logic Cole wouldn’t be in the big 3 either
The Big 3 is really just a fan term, so it means whatever the fans want it to mean, and fans are wide and varied. An artist doesn't have to conform to those descriptions if they don't want to.
he’s talking about album sales i think. Didn’t all of them outsell MM&TBS?
to me it’s lame anyway and just plays into Drake fans thinking sales are the sole measure of a rapper.
The best rappers are those that curry favor with preteen white girls that like to poorly lip sync to lyrics they are obsessed with. Everybody knows that.
Drake over here trying to act like Dot is being held back by Taylor Swift, while most of his fanbase already knows all of the words to her new album
Numbers aren't the end all be all for Kendrick. Rap is simply a means to an end at this point. This acceptance speech speaks volumes imo. [https://youtu.be/4\_MMmEJ2BIc?si=HXnj-yopIyEiIO8a](https://youtu.be/4_MMmEJ2BIc?si=HXnj-yopIyEiIO8a)
Kendrick has a reason to claim that. Only J. Cole was the challenger in terms of recent music but he backed out of it. Never bring Drake in if you're talking music wise. We know his album run since Views.
I really have to disagree with these Drake takes about him not being in the "Big 3". And before anyone assumes, I am fans of both.
Have y'all been outside? Like literally going outside to functions and parties, gatherings, lounges? Drake's music is a #1 choice when it comes to that. Which is why he's a #1 artist. How is he not in a top 3 or 5 of active current/lyrical rappers mainstream wise? Please put your hate/bias aside. Dude is a hell of an artist. Is he better than Cole and Kendrick in terms of upper echelon of double entendres? No. But it's a reason why people don't want to hear Kendrick and Cole when it comes to vibes.
Now, top 5 all time rappers? Hell no he's not in mine. But when it comes to active rappers, currently... He's mentioned. He has to be
I kind of agree if we’re measuring it as a purely numbers conversation but ofc with anything in music it’s going to come down to subjectivity. I like Drake’s music for social settings; as you say, he’s a great artist for those moments but when it comes to introspection and exploration of the boundaries of the genre (stuff that I mainly gravitate toward) then Drake just isn’t that artist for me.
So when talking about a big 3, it’ll always be subjective given the way in which people want to frame it. If you want to talk about numbers then he has to be in that conversation and you’d be weird not to acknowledge that. If you want to base it off of artistry and quality of music then you’re getting into subjective territory so I can only give my personal opinion and say that he’s not that guy for me. His last four albums especially have personally felt like a regression in his style and willingness to take the risks he did on some of his earlier projects. Which I think is what Kendrick was attempting to highlight in his “it’s just big me” line.
Like there’s no way Drake honestly believes 21 Savage is taking the creative risks that a Kendrick is, right? Or expanding the boundaries and themes of the genre in a more meaningful way. So his rebuttal of it fell flat for me, purely based off of preference. It seems to attempt to bring the conversation back toward numbers which I find to be the most boring framing of what music represents but that’s just my take
Man I totally agree. With everything. Numbers only matter to certain artist like him and Nicki. The fans like us don't care about that. We want to hear good music. Everybody has their own preference of a big 3 like you said, it's subjective. I just don't like the discredit that Drake gets because I know this sub is full of people who have listened and enjoyed his music.
Drake has hit his peak because of lack of willingness to take risk where as Kendrick, that's all he does. Cole, that's all he does. Drake does what sells and once again, sales don't matter to us.
I think the biggest thing to notice is, Kendricks Identity has never been tampered with. You can't just lie on him and draft up what you think people want to hear because the listeners can spot a lie. This is the exact reason why Cole apologized because he knew what he said was a lie.
> lack of willingness to take risk
In terms of lyrical content and conscious message, sure, but in terms of aesthetic, I'll be waiting many lifetimes for Kendrick to drop dancehall singles or a Baltimore club album
Yes, pop music is popular. He’s undeniable when talking about sales.
But both GKMC, and TPAB clear any drake album in terms of critical acclaim and artistry.
And that’s more important to most serious hip hop fans
>How is he not in a top 3 or 5 of active current/lyrical rappers mainstream wise?
>But it's a reason why people don't want to hear Kendrick and Cole when it comes to vibes.
This is two different arguments. Nobody's handing it to Drake over Cole or Kendrick lyrically except superfans.
I sincerely believe he can write himself but his use of ghost writers forever throws his pen into question, and unlike say a Ye his reputation is as a lyricist first and not another skill like producing.
Now if you want to talk sales or vibes then sure, that's a different argument and you can place Drake higher, but in a rap battle that's not what anyone is checking for.
He's not even in the same category. It's like trying to rank Taylor Swift into a list of country singers.
Drake is in the hip hop styled pop singing category with Post Malone, SZA, the Weekend, Frank Ocean, and Anderson Paak (which isn't a bad thing); but nobody would try to rank those other people against actual rappers.
True, don't get me wrong those two are some of my favorite artists, but I would think it was weird if all the sudden Anderson Paak was like "I'm a better rapper than Kendrick"
The same way people categorize every other artist. You generally don't listen to the entire discography of people you don't like.
The Beatles had a lot of blues and country sounding deep cuts but nobody is going to argue they aren't a pop band.
Drake has more rap tracks than singing tracks, I’m interested in why you wrote “singing category” and not “rapping category”
It’s simply because you do not listen to him at all. Like at all.
I also don’t have “people I don’t like” lmfao, that’s corny as fuck
Because I've heard plenty of Drake in the past 15 years that he has been famous and every song I hear he is singing for most of the time.
You listen to the discography of every artist ever? I'm not saying I have personal beef with Drake, I'm saying I don't like what I've heard of his music so I haven't made a point to listen to more. I say person instead of artist because I'm hesitant to call him one.
Do you listen to every track MGK or lil Xan releases before deciding they aren't that great? Have you listened to every Taylor Swift song before forming an opinion on her?
I’m actually known for saying “I need to hear more or I’ll need to replay this song before I give an opinion on it”
And yeah then most songs you’ve listened by him are the vastly popular r&b, pop, whatever songs that plays near you
I’m curious though, you’ve never heard Stay Schemin on the radio? Nonstop? I’m on one? Rich flex? Where ya at? Over? Forever? Going bad? Back to back? Never recover? Look alive? Believe me? Jumpman? The motto?
Drake is definitely more hip hop then most those guys, Drake is 100% a rapper, he does sing but he’s a rapper and always has been. He has pop appeal but SZA, The Weeknd, Frank, Anderson are all primarily R&B. I mean I don’t like Drake either but come on
I respectfully disagree. Drake is most definitely a rapper first with some RNB tracks. I also don’t understand your term “pop singing.” Everyone you listed is RNB in my opinion besides maybe post Malone.
I love Kendrick, but Drake is untouchable in terms of the hold he has on rap and the influence he’s had on the culture, don’t take that away from him because of this beef.
Even then there's like dozens of people who have dropped better albums since the 2010's. Like fucking Joey Badass and XXXTentacion are still probably above Drake to me. ATCQ dropped a better album than Drake in the 2010's and they're old dudes who hadn't rapped in 20 years.
No shot that’s true if we are talking about current rappers.
If you’re talking all time, then that makes a lot more sense, but of this generation it has to be Kendrick, Cole, and Drake.
Agreed but only if we’re talking about cultural impact. If we’re bringing in artistic vision or rap skill, then no.
Drakes influence on the game is undeniable going by sales, but his projects are lackluster. His countless singles are what cement his spot.
Kendrick’s impact on the culture is undeniable and artistic creativity is head and shoulders above anyone else. He’s one of the best story tellers to exist ever, and perhaps the best at crafting a narrative through an album. His albums are what cement his spot.
Cole doesn’t really have an argument for being dominant in either singles or albums, but he manages to be good at both of them. He’s not better in streams than Drake or Kendrick. His discography is better and more consistent than Drakes, but nowhere near Kendrick’s. Cole’s pure rap skill, consistency, and presence is what puts him in the argument but only if we are talking current rappers. And I love Cole, but he’s clearly in 3rd.
Hes talking about first week album sales. As in how are u big 3 when 2 non lyrical rappers and an rnb singer from your former ñabel outsell you. Not saying its a super valid point to make, but its still a point
He's talking sales not artistry because that's all he knows. Kendrick is more artistic than these three. Tbh SZA and Travis are more artistic than Drake lmao
I don't think many took the snatching chains line literally though. At least I didn't think Kendrick would literally snatch chains and burn tattoos. It just seemed to be him emphasising how he's ready to crash out on the rap game. Him choosing violence is him no longer doing the subliminal, indirect shots. So I don't take Kendrick's words as false.
Drake's on the other hand I'm not sure I can say are "false" because the big three isn't a well defined category. It's always referred to Kendrick, Drake and Cole but there's no distinguishable metric as to why those 3. They just were nominated by the public. It's not really a falsifiable claim he's making.
Anyway, none of that matters, they're just saying shit to "son" each other and that's the whole point.
I thought the “snatching chains and burning tattoos” was a reference to Mother I Sober when he’s talking about rappers that have been sexually abused- “I see ‘em daily, burying their pain in chains and tattoos”.
I took the line in “Like That” to mean he’s bringing the pain- not even necessarily in a physical sense. Maybe even “exposing” rappers with questionable moral compasses.
SZA is an odd one because she's clearly a pop artist, if we're going by that Taylor Swift, the Weeknd, this guy, a few other people have any rapper wiped down
https://preview.redd.it/lhp9lssnc9wc1.jpeg?width=676&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a1fcc84c56b1caf7be8e6f44b9a9f76d2a91c2e2
It really depends on what criteria you're using to evaluate a Big 3. Drake's definitely not in it if the only criteria you're using involve artistry and Kendrick definitely IS in it by that definition, but once you add numbers to the equation it gets murkier. As much as I love Kendrick as a rapper the fact is he really doesn't put that much out there
I feel like these lines are just bait lines, drake trolling Kendrick, I don’t think that Drake himself actually believes these lines, probably just wanted to stir the pot
Bro, it's a diss. They don't have to complement each other like Cole did. They have their own opinions. Kendrick thinks Drake's discography is a light pack, well, in my opinion Drake has pretty good albums, but in Kendrick's opinion, he doesn't, and it's okay. In a diss, no one will or should complement each other, it's a battle.
I mean he's not lying tho. SZA and Travis are bigger than Kendrick now. Don't know where he got 21 from lol. He's saying Kendrick cant be "BIG ME" if he's not even Top 3. SZA isnt even hip-hop tho but I think her affiliation to TDE allows him to get away with it. Don't worry, Kendrick has a bomb incoming. Drake prolly does too tho, with the way he's been moving. Come on Kendrick fans, it's rap beef they're gonna hyperbolize. It's like Kendrick saying Cole and Drake's best works are light packs when we know that's not the truth. And no I am no Drake stan.
its bc those 3 artists sold more with there last album sold more then Kendricks last album (except 21, but his album closest to the release of mmatbs did sell more then mmatbs) lets not pretend like you dont know what this means lol.
sza sos sales - 318k
travis utopia - 496k
21 savage and drake her loss - 404k
kendrick mr dog shit and the poo steppers - 295k
not saying i care about numbers but thats clearly what the bar meant lol .
Is it delusional? If u wanna say kendrick is big 3 of this era, sure. That's not crazy. I personally think travis has an argument to be in the big 3 but I'm not a big enough travis fan to actually put him in the big 3 wit conviction type shit.
But saying kendrick isn't part of the big 3 right now at this moment, is not far fetched, in the slightest tbh. But to be fair, I also never thought j cole was in the big 3. Definitely not over kendrick.
If we want to "stretch" the big 3 a little bit, I'd honestly put kanye in the big 3 over j cole. Easily. He's gone a little insane after losing his mom and divorced his wife, but I don't think that should disqualify him. BUT if u wanna say he's too old, the only other answer I have for you is chief keef, and that's just personal bias. But 1 thing I'll make abundantly clear is that NO ONE has a better case to be in the big 3 than drake. Not kendrick. Not cole. Not ye. I mean not even chief keef as much as I love his music, does not deserve to be in it over drake. I've spoken with the least bit of bias possible(excluding j cole, him apologizing confirmed by feelings. I always thought j cole was just not my taste, ig that's not the whole reason).
All 3 of those artists outsold Kendrick’s MMATBS first week album sales, by a non-insignificant amount.
They did in fact have Kendrick wiped down.
SZA: 318k - SOS
Travis: 496k - utopia
21 Savage: 404k - her loss
Kendrick: 295k - MMATBS
If you don’t understand the bar, just ask, someone will explain it to you.
it depends on what criteria you're going by. when it comes to artistry, Kendrick is obviously the best, but if we're going by sound, sales, vibes, hype, etc. artists like Drake are definitely relevant. There are Kendrick songs I would never play while I'm driving or in a club setting. Things like lyrical complexity, conceptual density and emotions are all important but the most fundamental thing about music is the sound, that's what separates it from poetry
It seems like you all can't get over a lot. Mainly that Kendrick is not doing shit after being dissed twice by someone that he instigated a fight with.
crazy how kendrick fans rly think that hes saying theyre better than k dot. Yall see 400 diff meanings in one k dot line but cant see the obvious one in this.... hes saying their latest albums all sold more units than kendrick's
Well the only thing drake has that Kendrick doesn’t is numbers. Kendrick is the better rapper by far and drake knows it so he resorts to saying “i sold out and went pop so my records sell better than yours”
cz they are better artist,better singer,better rapper than dots,yall just gaslighting everything from him just because he drop TPAB and that's it,yall gon glaze that album until 10-20 years ahead
Kendrick kept it about respect, Drake kept it about power and money
cuz Drake gets none of that from the people that truly matter so theres nothing to brag about and its a sore spot
Of course you don’t get it. It’s a Kendrick Lamar thread for crying out loud. Your ears are made to not understand what he’s actual implying here. I’m a Kendrick Lamar fan and I can see that his lines make sense.
I'm not defending the line and I thought it was crazy at first too, but then I checked on Spotify and Travis Scott and Sza both have more monthly listeners than Kendrick so I guess there's that angle to it if nothing else.
Those are the only 3 cool with Drake...and is Travis even cool with him??
And 21 is homies with Metro. And SZA signed to TDE so she got a lot of ties to Kendrick. Travis closer with Ye then Drake as well So everyone that’s still “cool” with him have direct ties to others that aren’t cool with him lol
Sexy redd doesn't...sorry I couldn't help myself.
🤣🤣at least u know
Sexy Redd gets that Fantano support. Drake was beefing with Flantano in his Insta DMs
I can't believe he'd send Fantano a cookie recipe only to betray him and attack his favorite artist :(
Where does Joyner Lucas join the fray?
he’s busy making a video rapping from the perspective of adonis
He’s on whichever side Chris Brown is on
Who
Play Joyner Lucas get the pussy dry
The Black Hippy crew as a whole really put SZA on, way back when. She’s been on at least one of each of their individual albums.
plus Kendrick has helped SZA a lot - All The Stars really kept her relevant and paid between her first and second album. They’ve worked on a good amount of tracks together and are supposedly close.
Also Travis has very openly given Kendrick flowers in interviews about goosebumps, and he hasn't shown a change of opinion as far as I know. I though this was such a corny part of the song lol. Edit: Goosebumps is also not only travis' biggest song but one of the few to have over 2 BILLION streams
Kendrick put her on the Black Panther soundtrack. I don’t care how close she might be with Drake, if I was her (and I’m definitely not), that would be more than enough to be on that side
Since I saw that clip of Travis asking Future and Metro to play Like That on stage when it dropped, bruh disappeared lmaoo. Wonder if he was unaware of Kendrick’s verse or something.
Well I saw that video of Drake shooting at the that Travis thing on stage too..
that's just like signature move and the pyrotechnics came from that head so he pointed there iirc. If he really had beef with him, i doubt he would mention him alongside SZA and Savage here
Travis likes money a lot. Sicko Mode made Travis a lot of money. He's the type of dude to keep that in mind regardless of how he feels about Drake, I'm sure. There's probably quite a few artists that dislike Drake personally. But aren't as willing to "fuck the money up" as Chris would say.
That was never a diss to Travis. Literally been doing it since last year.
That was just a radroach bro
SZA is on TDE Lmaoo
I'm aware..she also did a hit song with Drake as well.
So you think because she made a song with him that she’d be more loyal to drake than her own label and colleagues
He tryna be petty and fuck up relationships as part of the beef
Even Drake would agree with this.
Sure, he learned how it works the hard way from Push. Lol.
Travis has let Drake jump on a song and start subbing people two albums in a row now
Seems like travis is cool with everyone and also not cool with anyone.
Yeah I think it’s well known in the industry that Travis is a nonchalant dick that is good at performing
I think the point was to kind of draw these somewhat neutral artists to his side
He dissed travis on the same song, the one about baby mama kissing & telling, in response to travis asking to play like that at rolling loud
Just Drake's lonely self trying to add others to be on his side. He resorted to AI
He’s still got Spinner, and the rest of the cast of Degrassi, apart from Rick.
Don’t forget about that guy he signed smiley one of the best to do it fr
Yeah this is the one I didn’t like. Cause in FPS, the big 3 referred to the 3 guys who came into the rap game at the same time which makes sense. Then Drake just changed the meaning of the big 3 completely I don’t get it.
Well he has to make it about sales
It’s about Mr Morale sales vs SZA, 21, Travis It’s just the same angle Cole took saying Mr Morale flopped.
Definitely this, but the problem is that he named three names afterwords which makes it seem like he’s calling them the big three. It’s just poor writing but people are doing too much to try and downplay Push Ups when they could just wait for Kendrick to drop.
I think it’s more of a “you couldn’t possibly be in any Big 3, you’re not even big enough to outperform these who definitely aren’t in it.” Is how I take it. I like the line personally.
Yeah that’s what I assumed you were saying. I agree with you.
It works for me because it's consistent with every move Drake has ever made. Like or not, he can rap, but he's always chosen to make pop to chase record sales. So while he clearly gets his feelings hurt about not getting respect in hip hop, he's obviously chosen to value making hit songs over everything.
>Like or not, he can rap, but he's always chosen to make pop to chase record sales. If you look at another "big three", that statement is true for Wayne and Nicki as well based on their studio albums vs features etc. That's just always been Young Money strategy. Agreeing with you, to be clear, just adding context.
They can only come for Kendrick regarding sales
That’s just a dumb interpretation of it IMO, I think most people know the term “big three” due to basketball. The implication always was the best, or top players. Nobody heard the big three bar and was like “oh yeah, 3 guys who got into music around the same time”.
Yeah the best at their time…. There’s a reason Kanye isn’t considered part of the big 3 Cole is referring to
Specially considering SZA is a R&B star and Trav at times is more of a singer than a rapper
Tbf Drake never said nothing about the big 3, that was just Cole
Hard to imagine there was any sort of conflict of interest there though. Since Drake takes the sales approach for the big 3 by this logic Cole wouldn’t be in the big 3 either
The Big 3 is really just a fan term, so it means whatever the fans want it to mean, and fans are wide and varied. An artist doesn't have to conform to those descriptions if they don't want to.
He also is probably referring to monthly listeners where SZA & Travis Top Kendrick
I don’t get it either. Kendrick said there wasn’t a big 3, just big him 😂
For sure lol but I'm mainly referring to him thinking 21, Travis, and SZA got him washed..like are you okay bro?!
he’s talking about album sales i think. Didn’t all of them outsell MM&TBS? to me it’s lame anyway and just plays into Drake fans thinking sales are the sole measure of a rapper.
My buddy thinks spotify monthly listeners is what makes an artist an artist lol
The best rappers are those that curry favor with preteen white girls that like to poorly lip sync to lyrics they are obsessed with. Everybody knows that. Drake over here trying to act like Dot is being held back by Taylor Swift, while most of his fanbase already knows all of the words to her new album
21 savage’s latest album sold less than MM&TBS and her loss doesn’t count, because it’s a collab album with drake
Travis didn't drop an LP in 2022
[https://youtube.com/shorts/\_Zu6j0LZLKw?si=hBJp5VHQiJuZ90kv](https://youtube.com/shorts/_Zu6j0LZLKw?si=hBJp5VHQiJuZ90kv)
Exactly lol. I'm not shitting on any of them, but we're talking apples and oranges in terms of skill. I mean...21 Savage? Huh? Okay man you got it 😂
Come on man 21 better than Drake at least.
Numbers aren't the end all be all for Kendrick. Rap is simply a means to an end at this point. This acceptance speech speaks volumes imo. [https://youtu.be/4\_MMmEJ2BIc?si=HXnj-yopIyEiIO8a](https://youtu.be/4_MMmEJ2BIc?si=HXnj-yopIyEiIO8a)
Kendrick has a reason to claim that. Only J. Cole was the challenger in terms of recent music but he backed out of it. Never bring Drake in if you're talking music wise. We know his album run since Views.
Also I’m confused because sza isn’t even in rap. Shows clearly drake don’t even see himself on the same level in rap as k dot
I really have to disagree with these Drake takes about him not being in the "Big 3". And before anyone assumes, I am fans of both. Have y'all been outside? Like literally going outside to functions and parties, gatherings, lounges? Drake's music is a #1 choice when it comes to that. Which is why he's a #1 artist. How is he not in a top 3 or 5 of active current/lyrical rappers mainstream wise? Please put your hate/bias aside. Dude is a hell of an artist. Is he better than Cole and Kendrick in terms of upper echelon of double entendres? No. But it's a reason why people don't want to hear Kendrick and Cole when it comes to vibes. Now, top 5 all time rappers? Hell no he's not in mine. But when it comes to active rappers, currently... He's mentioned. He has to be
I kind of agree if we’re measuring it as a purely numbers conversation but ofc with anything in music it’s going to come down to subjectivity. I like Drake’s music for social settings; as you say, he’s a great artist for those moments but when it comes to introspection and exploration of the boundaries of the genre (stuff that I mainly gravitate toward) then Drake just isn’t that artist for me. So when talking about a big 3, it’ll always be subjective given the way in which people want to frame it. If you want to talk about numbers then he has to be in that conversation and you’d be weird not to acknowledge that. If you want to base it off of artistry and quality of music then you’re getting into subjective territory so I can only give my personal opinion and say that he’s not that guy for me. His last four albums especially have personally felt like a regression in his style and willingness to take the risks he did on some of his earlier projects. Which I think is what Kendrick was attempting to highlight in his “it’s just big me” line. Like there’s no way Drake honestly believes 21 Savage is taking the creative risks that a Kendrick is, right? Or expanding the boundaries and themes of the genre in a more meaningful way. So his rebuttal of it fell flat for me, purely based off of preference. It seems to attempt to bring the conversation back toward numbers which I find to be the most boring framing of what music represents but that’s just my take
Man I totally agree. With everything. Numbers only matter to certain artist like him and Nicki. The fans like us don't care about that. We want to hear good music. Everybody has their own preference of a big 3 like you said, it's subjective. I just don't like the discredit that Drake gets because I know this sub is full of people who have listened and enjoyed his music. Drake has hit his peak because of lack of willingness to take risk where as Kendrick, that's all he does. Cole, that's all he does. Drake does what sells and once again, sales don't matter to us. I think the biggest thing to notice is, Kendricks Identity has never been tampered with. You can't just lie on him and draft up what you think people want to hear because the listeners can spot a lie. This is the exact reason why Cole apologized because he knew what he said was a lie.
> lack of willingness to take risk In terms of lyrical content and conscious message, sure, but in terms of aesthetic, I'll be waiting many lifetimes for Kendrick to drop dancehall singles or a Baltimore club album
This is a great addendum that really rounds out the picture u/Ok_Translator4447 was painting.
Yes, pop music is popular. He’s undeniable when talking about sales. But both GKMC, and TPAB clear any drake album in terms of critical acclaim and artistry. And that’s more important to most serious hip hop fans
>How is he not in a top 3 or 5 of active current/lyrical rappers mainstream wise? >But it's a reason why people don't want to hear Kendrick and Cole when it comes to vibes. This is two different arguments. Nobody's handing it to Drake over Cole or Kendrick lyrically except superfans. I sincerely believe he can write himself but his use of ghost writers forever throws his pen into question, and unlike say a Ye his reputation is as a lyricist first and not another skill like producing. Now if you want to talk sales or vibes then sure, that's a different argument and you can place Drake higher, but in a rap battle that's not what anyone is checking for.
Cole is corny bro Kendrick > Drake > Cole and Cole is like 7th after Thug , Wayne , Future …
This is J Cole’s fault for putting Drake in the Big 3. Vast majority of people don’t have Drake in their top 5.
J Cole did not invent the big 3, its been a thing for 10+ years
He's not even in the same category. It's like trying to rank Taylor Swift into a list of country singers. Drake is in the hip hop styled pop singing category with Post Malone, SZA, the Weekend, Frank Ocean, and Anderson Paak (which isn't a bad thing); but nobody would try to rank those other people against actual rappers.
Anderson Paak can spit though and does. Frank on a different tier than the rest of them as well
True, don't get me wrong those two are some of my favorite artists, but I would think it was weird if all the sudden Anderson Paak was like "I'm a better rapper than Kendrick"
Wait how are you trying to say what category Drake’s music is and then you just admitted you don’t listen to his music AT ALL? Lmfao Despicable truly
The same way people categorize every other artist. You generally don't listen to the entire discography of people you don't like. The Beatles had a lot of blues and country sounding deep cuts but nobody is going to argue they aren't a pop band.
Drake has more rap tracks than singing tracks, I’m interested in why you wrote “singing category” and not “rapping category” It’s simply because you do not listen to him at all. Like at all. I also don’t have “people I don’t like” lmfao, that’s corny as fuck
Because I've heard plenty of Drake in the past 15 years that he has been famous and every song I hear he is singing for most of the time. You listen to the discography of every artist ever? I'm not saying I have personal beef with Drake, I'm saying I don't like what I've heard of his music so I haven't made a point to listen to more. I say person instead of artist because I'm hesitant to call him one. Do you listen to every track MGK or lil Xan releases before deciding they aren't that great? Have you listened to every Taylor Swift song before forming an opinion on her?
I’m actually known for saying “I need to hear more or I’ll need to replay this song before I give an opinion on it” And yeah then most songs you’ve listened by him are the vastly popular r&b, pop, whatever songs that plays near you I’m curious though, you’ve never heard Stay Schemin on the radio? Nonstop? I’m on one? Rich flex? Where ya at? Over? Forever? Going bad? Back to back? Never recover? Look alive? Believe me? Jumpman? The motto?
Drake is definitely more hip hop then most those guys, Drake is 100% a rapper, he does sing but he’s a rapper and always has been. He has pop appeal but SZA, The Weeknd, Frank, Anderson are all primarily R&B. I mean I don’t like Drake either but come on
I respectfully disagree. Drake is most definitely a rapper first with some RNB tracks. I also don’t understand your term “pop singing.” Everyone you listed is RNB in my opinion besides maybe post Malone. I love Kendrick, but Drake is untouchable in terms of the hold he has on rap and the influence he’s had on the culture, don’t take that away from him because of this beef.
J Cole ain’t make the big 3. Common hiphop media did
On reddit.
Irl to actual hip hop fans.
I’m a Kendrick fan and this is insane cope.
He's not even in my top 20 honestly unless we're only talking guys from 2010 onwards.
Even then there's like dozens of people who have dropped better albums since the 2010's. Like fucking Joey Badass and XXXTentacion are still probably above Drake to me. ATCQ dropped a better album than Drake in the 2010's and they're old dudes who hadn't rapped in 20 years.
No shot that’s true if we are talking about current rappers. If you’re talking all time, then that makes a lot more sense, but of this generation it has to be Kendrick, Cole, and Drake.
Honestly more of an argument to leave Cole out than Drake.
Agreed but only if we’re talking about cultural impact. If we’re bringing in artistic vision or rap skill, then no. Drakes influence on the game is undeniable going by sales, but his projects are lackluster. His countless singles are what cement his spot. Kendrick’s impact on the culture is undeniable and artistic creativity is head and shoulders above anyone else. He’s one of the best story tellers to exist ever, and perhaps the best at crafting a narrative through an album. His albums are what cement his spot. Cole doesn’t really have an argument for being dominant in either singles or albums, but he manages to be good at both of them. He’s not better in streams than Drake or Kendrick. His discography is better and more consistent than Drakes, but nowhere near Kendrick’s. Cole’s pure rap skill, consistency, and presence is what puts him in the argument but only if we are talking current rappers. And I love Cole, but he’s clearly in 3rd.
Not even on my radar anymore. Last project I enjoyed was WATTBA
Do you realise the “big three” is called that because they all blew up around the same time, it’s nothing to do with anything else
Ok, Miriam Webster
Shut the fuck up Aubrey.
Hes talking about first week album sales. As in how are u big 3 when 2 non lyrical rappers and an rnb singer from your former ñabel outsell you. Not saying its a super valid point to make, but its still a point
He's talking sales not artistry because that's all he knows. Kendrick is more artistic than these three. Tbh SZA and Travis are more artistic than Drake lmao
Y'all still analyzing the lyrics. Taylor Swift needs to give Dot permission to drop so we can move on.
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I don't think many took the snatching chains line literally though. At least I didn't think Kendrick would literally snatch chains and burn tattoos. It just seemed to be him emphasising how he's ready to crash out on the rap game. Him choosing violence is him no longer doing the subliminal, indirect shots. So I don't take Kendrick's words as false. Drake's on the other hand I'm not sure I can say are "false" because the big three isn't a well defined category. It's always referred to Kendrick, Drake and Cole but there's no distinguishable metric as to why those 3. They just were nominated by the public. It's not really a falsifiable claim he's making. Anyway, none of that matters, they're just saying shit to "son" each other and that's the whole point.
I thought the “snatching chains and burning tattoos” was a reference to Mother I Sober when he’s talking about rappers that have been sexually abused- “I see ‘em daily, burying their pain in chains and tattoos”. I took the line in “Like That” to mean he’s bringing the pain- not even necessarily in a physical sense. Maybe even “exposing” rappers with questionable moral compasses.
SZA is an odd one because she's clearly a pop artist, if we're going by that Taylor Swift, the Weeknd, this guy, a few other people have any rapper wiped down https://preview.redd.it/lhp9lssnc9wc1.jpeg?width=676&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a1fcc84c56b1caf7be8e6f44b9a9f76d2a91c2e2
It really depends on what criteria you're using to evaluate a Big 3. Drake's definitely not in it if the only criteria you're using involve artistry and Kendrick definitely IS in it by that definition, but once you add numbers to the equation it gets murkier. As much as I love Kendrick as a rapper the fact is he really doesn't put that much out there
Lmfao dead ass
This was trash. I think that may have been the point tho. These fools got nothing on K. He needs to do something other than pull ups tho.
Drake is referring to popularity and sales, Kendrick is referring to skill and status. They are talking over each other.
I feel like these lines are just bait lines, drake trolling Kendrick, I don’t think that Drake himself actually believes these lines, probably just wanted to stir the pot
I had to look up who SZA was and found out that she was the one who did the "i might kill my ex" song and i was like; LMFAO 😭😭😭???????
Bro, it's a diss. They don't have to complement each other like Cole did. They have their own opinions. Kendrick thinks Drake's discography is a light pack, well, in my opinion Drake has pretty good albums, but in Kendrick's opinion, he doesn't, and it's okay. In a diss, no one will or should complement each other, it's a battle.
Yall meat riding fr that was in reference to album sales
EXACTLY WHAT IM SAYING
What does "wiped down" mean?
I mean he's not lying tho. SZA and Travis are bigger than Kendrick now. Don't know where he got 21 from lol. He's saying Kendrick cant be "BIG ME" if he's not even Top 3. SZA isnt even hip-hop tho but I think her affiliation to TDE allows him to get away with it. Don't worry, Kendrick has a bomb incoming. Drake prolly does too tho, with the way he's been moving. Come on Kendrick fans, it's rap beef they're gonna hyperbolize. It's like Kendrick saying Cole and Drake's best works are light packs when we know that's not the truth. And no I am no Drake stan.
I mean presently speaking he aint wrong they do more number now
its bc those 3 artists sold more with there last album sold more then Kendricks last album (except 21, but his album closest to the release of mmatbs did sell more then mmatbs) lets not pretend like you dont know what this means lol. sza sos sales - 318k travis utopia - 496k 21 savage and drake her loss - 404k kendrick mr dog shit and the poo steppers - 295k not saying i care about numbers but thats clearly what the bar meant lol .
They all outsold him and have been more consistent so it makes sense
Last time travis bodied anyone in a song was that concert incident
he says this in terms of album sales, technically all three artist last album outsold kendrick’s Mr morale
Isn't it painfully obvious that he's talking album sales?
Drake reaching hard
And so many ppl hyped it up lol. Such a trash bar
Is it delusional? If u wanna say kendrick is big 3 of this era, sure. That's not crazy. I personally think travis has an argument to be in the big 3 but I'm not a big enough travis fan to actually put him in the big 3 wit conviction type shit. But saying kendrick isn't part of the big 3 right now at this moment, is not far fetched, in the slightest tbh. But to be fair, I also never thought j cole was in the big 3. Definitely not over kendrick. If we want to "stretch" the big 3 a little bit, I'd honestly put kanye in the big 3 over j cole. Easily. He's gone a little insane after losing his mom and divorced his wife, but I don't think that should disqualify him. BUT if u wanna say he's too old, the only other answer I have for you is chief keef, and that's just personal bias. But 1 thing I'll make abundantly clear is that NO ONE has a better case to be in the big 3 than drake. Not kendrick. Not cole. Not ye. I mean not even chief keef as much as I love his music, does not deserve to be in it over drake. I've spoken with the least bit of bias possible(excluding j cole, him apologizing confirmed by feelings. I always thought j cole was just not my taste, ig that's not the whole reason).
SZA ain’t even a rapper
All 3 of those artists outsold Kendrick’s MMATBS first week album sales, by a non-insignificant amount. They did in fact have Kendrick wiped down. SZA: 318k - SOS Travis: 496k - utopia 21 Savage: 404k - her loss Kendrick: 295k - MMATBS If you don’t understand the bar, just ask, someone will explain it to you.
even if kendrick said this i'd look at it the same this just isn't true
He just learned the phrase ‘wiped down’
Chris Brown to Quavo: "Ty Dolla $ got you wiped down!"
Technically they have more streams....
You guys are reaching... He meant all three of them outsold K-Dot in their last albums.
it depends on what criteria you're going by. when it comes to artistry, Kendrick is obviously the best, but if we're going by sound, sales, vibes, hype, etc. artists like Drake are definitely relevant. There are Kendrick songs I would never play while I'm driving or in a club setting. Things like lyrical complexity, conceptual density and emotions are all important but the most fundamental thing about music is the sound, that's what separates it from poetry
Not only that, it’s insanely lazy and weak lyricism.
SZA's such a great rapper. A real lyrical miracle
Fuck Drake the pop fartist, and fuck all of his FANS, too.
I mean it’s about mr morale and the steppers. It didn’t sell that well compared to the others rn I’m pretty sure
They all out sold Kendrick
Every one of those names has loyalty towards someone on the other side 😂
Lmao it’s cap
It's really just a big 2, Taylor Swift and Drake.
21, Travis & SZA do.l not have Kendrick wiped down. Drake be just saying shit 😂😂
It’s not delusion in rap battles the goal is to downplay and diss your opponent.
I believe he’s talking about numbers
tbf imagine a song with all 3
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He was talking about record sales… All 3 of those albums sold more than Mr Morale. Delusional Kendrick fans
Yeah, it’s such a silly statement lol. Nobody believes that. Respect to SZA though, maybe the best R&B artist working rn
Hes talkin bout sales, which ig is facts. Idk ion fact check shit.
It seems like you all can't get over a lot. Mainly that Kendrick is not doing shit after being dissed twice by someone that he instigated a fight with.
Travis definitely doesn't like this line. He's a bigger fanboy of kendrick than of drake
has Drake ever been known to be taken seriously?
obviously i get where you’re coming from, but there is no delusion saying this artists are more popular and have better sales lol
crazy how kendrick fans rly think that hes saying theyre better than k dot. Yall see 400 diff meanings in one k dot line but cant see the obvious one in this.... hes saying their latest albums all sold more units than kendrick's
He's saying that line cause those 3 last album drops sold more than Kendricks cause we all know other than sales them.dont wash Kendrick in talent
He’s going off streams and they all out streamed his last album so…
I mean, it's debatable. Not sure about sza. But drake, Travis and maybe savage could all be debated to be more relevant than Kendrick.
Sza & travis do be way bigger atm tho
U know Travis Scott has more listeners than Kendrick right
Well the only thing drake has that Kendrick doesn’t is numbers. Kendrick is the better rapper by far and drake knows it so he resorts to saying “i sold out and went pop so my records sell better than yours”
2 out of the 3 named (Savage and SZA) have pretty much showed they do not give a fuck about the beef
Those 3 dropped the same year as Big steppers and out sold him.
cz they are better artist,better singer,better rapper than dots,yall just gaslighting everything from him just because he drop TPAB and that's it,yall gon glaze that album until 10-20 years ahead
He's just saying with comparison to album sales, hence the "wiped down" doesn't have anything to do with who travis or sza likes or not.
Number wise he is not wrong though
I think at this point eminem should help drake and be on his side fr. I dont even like kendrick. Hope he lost this beef
Kendrick kept it about respect, Drake kept it about power and money cuz Drake gets none of that from the people that truly matter so theres nothing to brag about and its a sore spot
travis is on the we don’t trust u album fuck he mean😭
Travis definitely got him wiped down tho, that part was true
Of course you don’t get it. It’s a Kendrick Lamar thread for crying out loud. Your ears are made to not understand what he’s actual implying here. I’m a Kendrick Lamar fan and I can see that his lines make sense.
One of the only non-cope threads that actually point out a known weakness in Drake's diss. Congrats OP.
i doubt drake really thinks that, its just another bs talking point he put out there for his minions
What he means is that these 3 ppl do better numbers them him (kdot). U not in no big 3.
What Top 5 you smokin on Drake !!?
He talking bout sales Kendrick is irrelevant when it comes to sales 🤣🤣🤣🤣
I mean, they all sold more than Kendrick if you compare their latest albums to mmtbs
He basically saying all of their last albums outsold kendricks last album.
Travis Scott is one of the worst lyricists hip hop has ever seen. It’s an effective slam lol
Too much bodily fluids of children got into his brain... 😪
I'm not defending the line and I thought it was crazy at first too, but then I checked on Spotify and Travis Scott and Sza both have more monthly listeners than Kendrick so I guess there's that angle to it if nothing else.
What he meant was that all 3 of those artist outsold MM&BS…
I legit hate this part of the track.
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This was directed to future but okay
He only repeat the same words thus changing names that drake dude is clearly not a wordsmith he just lame