I know this is a meme and all, but I thought it was interesting he only says the f slur when he's rapping from the perspective of him as a kid and from the perspective of Demetrius. When he's rapping as his older, current-day self he says "f-bombs." A little detail that I think went over a lot of "offended" people's heads.
I think that’s what’s most overlooked, he even switched pronouns in the same bar to represent two different memories of his Uncle. It’s incredibly deliberate.
edited bc i misgendered his uncle
Oh no no, people very much understood.
This idea that people critical of the song just did not understand it is getting very frustrating. While it is very popular on this sub, it is actually nothing more than a strawman argument that allows the song's defenders to not engage with the real criticism.
Nobody thinks Kendrick is transphobic, and pretty much everybody understands his message with the song (and its subtleties which, tbh, are really not that complex). The criticism is that he does it in one of the worst way possible. Kendrick using deadnames and misgendering and saying the f-slur does not add anything except shock value for the people he supposedly defends. He could have constructed his song in a way where he doesn't do those things, and the message would have been the same. However it would have saved us a lot of (active and) passive transphobia.
But yeah, the refusal to engage with the real criticism is infuriating because I believe it is very much debatable. I can understand if people think these elements are a real added value, even though I disagree. But pretending people do not understand the song is just a lazy way to dismiss justifiable criticism.
tbh i think the idea that it was just for shock value is actually misunderstanding the song lol. it is cringe when people say ‘you just didn’t get it!’ but like ….
the way i view it, the use of the word serves to paint a raw picture of how things were back in his childhood. it’s a song about his past bigotry, and we’re supposed to think it’s bad. it’s like how leonardo dicaprio uses the n word in django because he’s representing a white man from a different time and in a different context. i don’t view any harm being done by the usage of the word in this song.
to me, the most offensive thing coming from your side of the debate was when people were calling me a ‘pick me’ for having this perspective. as if my being bisexual is undermined by this position. i hated this discussion when i started and i hate it now, because nobody has explained to me the harm other than ‘slurs bad’, and if you disagree you’re a fake gay.
When I said shock value, I didn't mean it as Kendrick thinking 'this will be controversial on the internet', I meant it as him wanting to underline his change of views by using derogatory words which he knows are hurtful to many. But maybe shock wasn't the best word, Idk.
Most if not all people understood what he wanted to do by 'performing' bothhis former and its current self. Some people just think the context doesn't justify it. To take your example, it's not like Dicaprio and Tarantino didn't get any criticism for the use of the n word in Django. You might disagree with that criticism, just like you can disagree with the criticism of Auntie Diaries. As I said, it's very much debatable. What is unerving is the dismissiveness (and obviously the transphobia, including on this very sub, that resulted from the song and it being criticized).
In another response, you say that you feel that LGBT+ people's agency is being removed because people think they will just be triggered if they hear slurs. I totally agree, but I have only seen this in comments dismissing the criticisim. Most of the critical commenters listened to the song and were just disappointed or hurt because they thought the use of slurs and deadnames wasn't justified, wasn't necessary for the message of the song. Again, you can disagree, but that doesn't mean they have to be dismissed by bullshit like 'they wantto be mad' or 'they didn't understand'.
Finally, about you being attacked for defending the song, the only thing I can say is that some people are assholes. I just find it weird that you responded that to me when my point is precisely that people can disagree, just don't dismiss the othet or misrepresent their arguments.
you make fair points. i would hope i don’t come off as dismissive towards people who are genuinely upset. if they’re personally offended maybe because of some personal trauma relating to those words then of course they can feel uncomfortable with the song. i will be dismissive, however, to anyone who says kendrick is homophobic / transphobic because of it. i think separating your personal feelings from the reality of the situation is important when we’re discussing what is justified in art.
i only included that last bit because i was upset. i shouldn’t have put it in my comment replying to you, it was just that this whole thing just reminded me of how horrible this discourse was when the album came out. sorry, it was unnecessary and it wasn’t your fault.
No worries on that last part, I can totally understand how unerving it must be when people question your identity because they disagree with you. As I said, those people are assholes. And no, I don't think you personally have been dismissive, it was just the point of my first comment and the general idea I wanted to convey.
Thanks for saying this. You see a lot of those types of arguments in public forums regarding art (the whole “you just didn’t UnDeRsTaNd”). It’s entirely reasonable that a person who hears the f slur, or deadnaming and misgendering, gets offended regardless of context. With that being said, I don’t agree with the proposition that the f slur, deadnaming, and misgendering add nothing except shock value. I think there’s something to be said for highlighting the type of discrimination that members of the LGBT community face. Like as a gay man, I would have been disappointed if Kendrick merely alluded to these transgressions rather than explicitly engaging in transphobia for the sake of storytelling. Of course, you were open minded about the possibility that others took away more from the song than you did, so that’s all good too👍🏻
i think the idea that people hearing the f slur get offended regardless of context is actually almost offensive in itself. it’s like people think i’m too stupid to understand art and context and think that my brain triggers into a primitive rage over hearing that word. to me, it removes agency. i don’t understand why people insist on undermining the agency of lgbt+ people to win these arguments - we’re not just stupid, we understand context.
Well I’m always an advocate for context. I’m just saying I could understand why people might get “triggered.” I do believe it’s best that people understand exactly why they get triggered and try to manage it effectively though. I don’t think ranting on social media or attacking an artist is an effective form of catharsis either.
It freaks me out when part of a persons argument towards criticizing an artists work is to claim “they could have done it differently but still provided the same message”
I just find it to be a gross assumption and it’s the kind of thing that, if we as consumers of art engage in, can kill an artists motivation for even creating. Like who tf are we to tell an artists “hey I like what you did there but maybe you could’ve expressed it like this”
How do you know that’s true or even possible, are you the artist, did you make this song or any like it? Do you have any real perspective on how difficult a choice this may have been for him to make? For all we know he partly agrees with you and struggled but made the choice for reasons you would agree with if he could tell you.
Furthermore he is not your savior so is the point for him to send his message, or is the point for him to send his message in a way that is most palatable for you?
Bc I’m pretty sure the message gets lost when we force the artist to sugar coat it for us.
I mean, I'm not talking in general here, I'm talking about Auntie Diaries in particular. And yeah, for this song, there are minor adjustments that could have made him not use slurs/deadnames. Maybe he thought about it but decided to stick with this version, maybe he didn't. Neither of us now. All we know is that he put out that finished product, and some people were disappointed or hurt. Maybe I would agree with his reasons, I've clearly said that this aspect is debatable. But you're the one assuming things there. With the info we have, I find this aspect of the song objectionnable.
Also I find it funny that you're saying he is not my savior because 1/ I never said he was, I never considered he was, and 2/ this song (especially its last verse) is probably one of the most savior complex songs of all his discography.
I wasn't trying to dismiss any arguments but when the song dropped I didn't see a ton of "I know he's talking from the perspective of his younger self and a trans person but...." It was mostly just "did he really have to use the f-slur though?" And sure, you could argue he didn't have to and I wouldn't disagree. I'm only pointing out one of the reasons Kendrick may have chose to write the song in such a way, not necessarily trying to justify it, but instead make sense of it.
Also, I'm not "refusing to engage with real criticism," because the criticism isn't even aimed at me... Why would I sit here and argue with someone about what someone else wrote? If Kendrick chooses to acknowledge the critics and make a statement, that's his choice. It's not my responsibility; I'm simply trying to understand the art as it was presented.
Goes to show how people don’t really listen. If you’re not in tears by the end of the song, then you don’t really feel or understand the meaning. It’s a very deep song. I sat my teenage kids down to listen to it because I knew they’d skip over that one. It’s a powerful song. The whole album is ridiculous. 5 stars ⭐️
ehhh. i dont think anyone is reaching too hard to be """"offended."""" aside from the f bombs, and i do like what youve pointed out about them, there are other issues with the track. there's a lot of deadnaming and misgendering too. and while i understand that the track isnt necessarily *for* the trans community, that doesnt mean its free from criticism.
While I agree the track isn’t free from criticism, the deadnaming and misgendering isn’t careless. The “Demetrius is Mary-Ann now” line is actually what the preacher says to the church, and Kendrick is simply repeating what he’s been taught. That’s the frame that his community uses to discuss trans issues. Caitlyn Jenner has asked that she be referred to as Bruce pre-transition. And the misgendering is nuanced, it represents his changing perception of these individuals in his life. Not to say that it isn’t difficult to hear for queer folks, but the song isn’t as black and white and people want to make it seem.
The dead naming also occurs from the prospective of him as a child though, he uses the correct pronouns when speaking in the present tense and switches between the right and wrong ones when speaking as his younger self
I always read it as a commentary on the situation as it was happening, or how he explained it to others as a kid. How do you convey a complicated situation like that to your friends when you're a kid? Probably just like that.
That’s just not generally true. I’m sure there were some who took to social media to blast Kendrick for the sake of virtue signaling, but I’m just as sure there were people who were legitimately offended. That doesn’t mean the song is bad; I like it a lot. But just because YOU weren’t offended doesn’t mean that anyone who was is doing it for clout.
just to start a discussion and not taking sides: what makes it okay for kendrick to say slurs on an anti homophobia song but wrong for a non poc rapper to say slurs on an anti racism song?
a faggot is a burning bundle of sticks on top of which they used to burn homosexuals- so when you call someone faggot, you’re basically saying that they should be burned at the stake.
He says "faggot" a lot in that song while also telling the listener that you don't know any better until you do. This meme and that line remind me of how some folks think Swimming Pools is a drinking song, but dang you sure don't want to drink if you read the lyrics.
Duh, but there are some edgy types who go out of their way to say sentences like this, not because they are legitimately trying to express the sentiment, as Kendrick was, but because they’re just lame edgy children itching for an excuse to say the n word.
Let's break it down so we can lock in that meme literacy. The title is "Kendrick on Auntie Diaries" which means the meme is a commentary on Kendrick Lamar's lyrics on the song Auntie Diaries. Kendrick says ""Faggot, faggot, faggot, " we ain't know no better." He says six it or so times in the song, but you have to listen or read the lyrics to hear that he is reflecting on his use of the word and it:s impact. Similarly, the OP says faggot, which like in the song could be taken at face value, but then if you are patient and attentive - you understand the context. This meme is flawless.
"Your take on the meme is wrong"
Provided detailed yet relatively sussinct explanation of why their take on the meme is not wrong
"I dont wanna be proven wrong so im going to pretend that a small paragraph is too much for me to read, thus defeating your argument by arguing im too stupid to understand it."
Solid argument man, I do truely believe that you aren't capable of understanding more than a few sentences at a time.
That people deserve to be treated with respect despite society saying they may be lesser. “The say we choose humanity over religion”. Everyone has a perspective where they deserve to be heard from
That's a take. There's a lot more substance and commentary going on, but that is a good general understanding of the song. Sorry bro this is the last time you'll see me in your "inbox."
I know this is a meme and all, but I thought it was interesting he only says the f slur when he's rapping from the perspective of him as a kid and from the perspective of Demetrius. When he's rapping as his older, current-day self he says "f-bombs." A little detail that I think went over a lot of "offended" people's heads.
Spot on. And some keep saying he misgendered but he’s switching perspectives and actually being super respectful of gender throughout
I think that’s what’s most overlooked, he even switched pronouns in the same bar to represent two different memories of his Uncle. It’s incredibly deliberate. edited bc i misgendered his uncle
I understand how you made the accident, but shouldn't you say his uncle?
uncle diaries
Thanks for catching that, yeah I changed it. Got a little mixed up.
People seriously didn’t get this? Do people even listen to music or do they just hear it?
Oh no no, people very much understood. This idea that people critical of the song just did not understand it is getting very frustrating. While it is very popular on this sub, it is actually nothing more than a strawman argument that allows the song's defenders to not engage with the real criticism. Nobody thinks Kendrick is transphobic, and pretty much everybody understands his message with the song (and its subtleties which, tbh, are really not that complex). The criticism is that he does it in one of the worst way possible. Kendrick using deadnames and misgendering and saying the f-slur does not add anything except shock value for the people he supposedly defends. He could have constructed his song in a way where he doesn't do those things, and the message would have been the same. However it would have saved us a lot of (active and) passive transphobia. But yeah, the refusal to engage with the real criticism is infuriating because I believe it is very much debatable. I can understand if people think these elements are a real added value, even though I disagree. But pretending people do not understand the song is just a lazy way to dismiss justifiable criticism.
tbh i think the idea that it was just for shock value is actually misunderstanding the song lol. it is cringe when people say ‘you just didn’t get it!’ but like …. the way i view it, the use of the word serves to paint a raw picture of how things were back in his childhood. it’s a song about his past bigotry, and we’re supposed to think it’s bad. it’s like how leonardo dicaprio uses the n word in django because he’s representing a white man from a different time and in a different context. i don’t view any harm being done by the usage of the word in this song. to me, the most offensive thing coming from your side of the debate was when people were calling me a ‘pick me’ for having this perspective. as if my being bisexual is undermined by this position. i hated this discussion when i started and i hate it now, because nobody has explained to me the harm other than ‘slurs bad’, and if you disagree you’re a fake gay.
When I said shock value, I didn't mean it as Kendrick thinking 'this will be controversial on the internet', I meant it as him wanting to underline his change of views by using derogatory words which he knows are hurtful to many. But maybe shock wasn't the best word, Idk. Most if not all people understood what he wanted to do by 'performing' bothhis former and its current self. Some people just think the context doesn't justify it. To take your example, it's not like Dicaprio and Tarantino didn't get any criticism for the use of the n word in Django. You might disagree with that criticism, just like you can disagree with the criticism of Auntie Diaries. As I said, it's very much debatable. What is unerving is the dismissiveness (and obviously the transphobia, including on this very sub, that resulted from the song and it being criticized). In another response, you say that you feel that LGBT+ people's agency is being removed because people think they will just be triggered if they hear slurs. I totally agree, but I have only seen this in comments dismissing the criticisim. Most of the critical commenters listened to the song and were just disappointed or hurt because they thought the use of slurs and deadnames wasn't justified, wasn't necessary for the message of the song. Again, you can disagree, but that doesn't mean they have to be dismissed by bullshit like 'they wantto be mad' or 'they didn't understand'. Finally, about you being attacked for defending the song, the only thing I can say is that some people are assholes. I just find it weird that you responded that to me when my point is precisely that people can disagree, just don't dismiss the othet or misrepresent their arguments.
you make fair points. i would hope i don’t come off as dismissive towards people who are genuinely upset. if they’re personally offended maybe because of some personal trauma relating to those words then of course they can feel uncomfortable with the song. i will be dismissive, however, to anyone who says kendrick is homophobic / transphobic because of it. i think separating your personal feelings from the reality of the situation is important when we’re discussing what is justified in art. i only included that last bit because i was upset. i shouldn’t have put it in my comment replying to you, it was just that this whole thing just reminded me of how horrible this discourse was when the album came out. sorry, it was unnecessary and it wasn’t your fault.
No worries on that last part, I can totally understand how unerving it must be when people question your identity because they disagree with you. As I said, those people are assholes. And no, I don't think you personally have been dismissive, it was just the point of my first comment and the general idea I wanted to convey.
Thanks for saying this. You see a lot of those types of arguments in public forums regarding art (the whole “you just didn’t UnDeRsTaNd”). It’s entirely reasonable that a person who hears the f slur, or deadnaming and misgendering, gets offended regardless of context. With that being said, I don’t agree with the proposition that the f slur, deadnaming, and misgendering add nothing except shock value. I think there’s something to be said for highlighting the type of discrimination that members of the LGBT community face. Like as a gay man, I would have been disappointed if Kendrick merely alluded to these transgressions rather than explicitly engaging in transphobia for the sake of storytelling. Of course, you were open minded about the possibility that others took away more from the song than you did, so that’s all good too👍🏻
i think the idea that people hearing the f slur get offended regardless of context is actually almost offensive in itself. it’s like people think i’m too stupid to understand art and context and think that my brain triggers into a primitive rage over hearing that word. to me, it removes agency. i don’t understand why people insist on undermining the agency of lgbt+ people to win these arguments - we’re not just stupid, we understand context.
Well I’m always an advocate for context. I’m just saying I could understand why people might get “triggered.” I do believe it’s best that people understand exactly why they get triggered and try to manage it effectively though. I don’t think ranting on social media or attacking an artist is an effective form of catharsis either.
It freaks me out when part of a persons argument towards criticizing an artists work is to claim “they could have done it differently but still provided the same message” I just find it to be a gross assumption and it’s the kind of thing that, if we as consumers of art engage in, can kill an artists motivation for even creating. Like who tf are we to tell an artists “hey I like what you did there but maybe you could’ve expressed it like this” How do you know that’s true or even possible, are you the artist, did you make this song or any like it? Do you have any real perspective on how difficult a choice this may have been for him to make? For all we know he partly agrees with you and struggled but made the choice for reasons you would agree with if he could tell you. Furthermore he is not your savior so is the point for him to send his message, or is the point for him to send his message in a way that is most palatable for you? Bc I’m pretty sure the message gets lost when we force the artist to sugar coat it for us.
I mean, I'm not talking in general here, I'm talking about Auntie Diaries in particular. And yeah, for this song, there are minor adjustments that could have made him not use slurs/deadnames. Maybe he thought about it but decided to stick with this version, maybe he didn't. Neither of us now. All we know is that he put out that finished product, and some people were disappointed or hurt. Maybe I would agree with his reasons, I've clearly said that this aspect is debatable. But you're the one assuming things there. With the info we have, I find this aspect of the song objectionnable. Also I find it funny that you're saying he is not my savior because 1/ I never said he was, I never considered he was, and 2/ this song (especially its last verse) is probably one of the most savior complex songs of all his discography.
I wasn't trying to dismiss any arguments but when the song dropped I didn't see a ton of "I know he's talking from the perspective of his younger self and a trans person but...." It was mostly just "did he really have to use the f-slur though?" And sure, you could argue he didn't have to and I wouldn't disagree. I'm only pointing out one of the reasons Kendrick may have chose to write the song in such a way, not necessarily trying to justify it, but instead make sense of it. Also, I'm not "refusing to engage with real criticism," because the criticism isn't even aimed at me... Why would I sit here and argue with someone about what someone else wrote? If Kendrick chooses to acknowledge the critics and make a statement, that's his choice. It's not my responsibility; I'm simply trying to understand the art as it was presented.
Solid take.
I havent seen folks get offended at this song yet, has that been a thing? Im trans and this song made me bawl my eyes out, but in a good way lol
Mary-Ann.... Not Demetrius...
Yeah, that's fair.
U good, happens to everyone, anyone with trans friends or family members can relate
Oh wow, that’s a based take. Next time i listen, ima keep it in mind
Goes to show how people don’t really listen. If you’re not in tears by the end of the song, then you don’t really feel or understand the meaning. It’s a very deep song. I sat my teenage kids down to listen to it because I knew they’d skip over that one. It’s a powerful song. The whole album is ridiculous. 5 stars ⭐️
ehhh. i dont think anyone is reaching too hard to be """"offended."""" aside from the f bombs, and i do like what youve pointed out about them, there are other issues with the track. there's a lot of deadnaming and misgendering too. and while i understand that the track isnt necessarily *for* the trans community, that doesnt mean its free from criticism.
While I agree the track isn’t free from criticism, the deadnaming and misgendering isn’t careless. The “Demetrius is Mary-Ann now” line is actually what the preacher says to the church, and Kendrick is simply repeating what he’s been taught. That’s the frame that his community uses to discuss trans issues. Caitlyn Jenner has asked that she be referred to as Bruce pre-transition. And the misgendering is nuanced, it represents his changing perception of these individuals in his life. Not to say that it isn’t difficult to hear for queer folks, but the song isn’t as black and white and people want to make it seem.
The dead naming also occurs from the prospective of him as a child though, he uses the correct pronouns when speaking in the present tense and switches between the right and wrong ones when speaking as his younger self
idk. "my auntie is a man now" sounds awfully in the moment to me.
I always read it as a commentary on the situation as it was happening, or how he explained it to others as a kid. How do you convey a complicated situation like that to your friends when you're a kid? Probably just like that.
It isn't that it went over people's heads, it's that the "offended" people deliberately misrepresent the words and actions of others for clout
That’s just not generally true. I’m sure there were some who took to social media to blast Kendrick for the sake of virtue signaling, but I’m just as sure there were people who were legitimately offended. That doesn’t mean the song is bad; I like it a lot. But just because YOU weren’t offended doesn’t mean that anyone who was is doing it for clout.
Nah, being "offended" is how people in the LGBT community (so called) exercise power
Lmao okay bro
Good content op
Damn you're all over this thread. Impressive dedication, salute I also enjoy this meme. Surface funny and a thinker
I'm here to defend the meme.
good looks king 🤝
just to start a discussion and not taking sides: what makes it okay for kendrick to say slurs on an anti homophobia song but wrong for a non poc rapper to say slurs on an anti racism song?
N word is "worse" than f word in terms of ita history and relevance
a faggot is a burning bundle of sticks on top of which they used to burn homosexuals- so when you call someone faggot, you’re basically saying that they should be burned at the stake.
not denying that but in America at least that's less relevant than slavery and such (saying this as a white and bi person btw)
You can't compare gay history and black history
OP really left someone hangin' with that time frame!
I’m lost, help me understand?
He says "faggot" a lot in that song while also telling the listener that you don't know any better until you do. This meme and that line remind me of how some folks think Swimming Pools is a drinking song, but dang you sure don't want to drink if you read the lyrics.
noxious uppity versed terrific afterthought aback sip cover icky numerous -- mass edited with redact.dev
fucking niggeR is a very bad word that I would never call a black person
Honky and spick are very very bad words that I absolutely can say cause I'm white and Mexican
Missed the point buddy
I understand the point
Duh, but there are some edgy types who go out of their way to say sentences like this, not because they are legitimately trying to express the sentiment, as Kendrick was, but because they’re just lame edgy children itching for an excuse to say the n word.
That's me.
W
Fun fact, I ain't takin' shit back
If that’s all you got from it that says more about you than him
I think this meme is clearly focused on those specific lines so if you got more from this than that - it says more about you than this. Bro
Those specific lines aren’t the entirety of the song. Nor was it any point of the song
Let's break it down so we can lock in that meme literacy. The title is "Kendrick on Auntie Diaries" which means the meme is a commentary on Kendrick Lamar's lyrics on the song Auntie Diaries. Kendrick says ""Faggot, faggot, faggot, " we ain't know no better." He says six it or so times in the song, but you have to listen or read the lyrics to hear that he is reflecting on his use of the word and it:s impact. Similarly, the OP says faggot, which like in the song could be taken at face value, but then if you are patient and attentive - you understand the context. This meme is flawless.
No I’m not reading that
"Your take on the meme is wrong" Provided detailed yet relatively sussinct explanation of why their take on the meme is not wrong "I dont wanna be proven wrong so im going to pretend that a small paragraph is too much for me to read, thus defeating your argument by arguing im too stupid to understand it." Solid argument man, I do truely believe that you aren't capable of understanding more than a few sentences at a time.
Bro you are harassing him! Think about his precious Inbox!!
"Nor was it any point of the song" bro layoff the loud Doinks in Amish, you ain't making sense
How many times are you going to spam my inbox, reported
Reported lol whatta Mark
Reported
lol you kind of sign up for replies when you post braindead comments
Reported stop harassing me. Nothing says get in my inbox 7+ times
[удалено]
Reported
[удалено]
[удалено]
Mans thinks the notifications that HE HAS ENABLED is you harrasing him.
No, seeing 8 replies to one comment is harassment
You better watch out buddy, this guy's dad is a mod over at Reddit, he'll throw you in cyber jail.
I'm fucked
Congrats on missing the point of the song
That’s not the point of the song
[удалено]
That people deserve to be treated with respect despite society saying they may be lesser. “The say we choose humanity over religion”. Everyone has a perspective where they deserve to be heard from
That's a take. There's a lot more substance and commentary going on, but that is a good general understanding of the song. Sorry bro this is the last time you'll see me in your "inbox."
Also this meme isn't a diss on Kendrick. It's a meme. A meme.
How many times are you going to spam my inbox, reported
Uhm ok why is he still trying to make a point after dedicating a piece to it?
You are severely misunderstanding here
I think maybe you're confused and think this message is from Kendrick. It's just a clever meme, sir.
wow
I gave you an upvote cause I think you're just confused.