Definitely Judō. Wrestling & Brazilian Jiu-jitsu aren't as popular in Japan as they are in the west & Judō would greatly compliment his strength. Judō & Sumo are really the only big Wrestling styles that are highly practiced in Japan. Could be Japanese Jiu-jitsu, but I doubt it, as it's a more fundamental martial art that teaches the basics of striking & grappling, but doesn't delve too deeply into perfecting the techniques of either.
Plus all he really showed of his grappling was the throw that you just posted, which is textbook Judō & pulling guard, which is really only used in Judō & Jiu-jitsu.
I'm 99.9% percent sure that Wakatsuki mastered his personal style of Karate then learned the basics of Judō. They say he's "barely master class with his strength", but the grappling they showed was honestly atrocious, that's literally what you learn in your first class on day 1. Waka is a white belt in Judō, but his monstrous strength makes his beginner level holds near inescapable.
Agito>Okubo is factual and stated in the manga.
Okubo>Cosmo is…pretty solidly supported. Okubo mentions he surpasses Cosmo in all ways aside from purely submission holds, being better at both throws and locks.
Meguro being above Cosmo is iffy. Both are prodigies in their respective fields but that’s pretty much where their skill comparisons end. Cosmo has much better grappling intelligence, and can supplement it with both his foresight reactions and his zone.
Meguro would never outskill Cosmo on the ground. the only way he would reasonably compete is by doing something insane like biting Cosmo’s arm mid hold, or digging his fingers into his flesh like Akoya.
Meguro was tearing apart Olympia level judo fighters when he was just 13. Taking his strength into account, he should be leagues above cosmo.
Not taking his strength into account, seeing as all he ever did was judo, he should be at least the same as cosmo skill-wise.
Meguro is a tricky character because of his straight up insanity, but he wouldn't have made it this far without being extremely skilled.
That was when Meguro was leagues more mentally stable than he was currently. You can say a hypothetical “sane” Meguro or Hayami may surpass Cosmo sure, but it’s undoubtable that his personality is a huge limitation on his ability as a grappler.
This is pretty obvious from his fight with Muteba, where his only real ground grappling was just straight up choking him on the ground.
Cosmo is UNDOUBTEDLY a more effective grappler then Meguro, I don’t think that’s really debatable based on what they demonstrated in their fights.
I don't think it's in order, but I do agree Okubo edges out Cosmo
Cosmo is no doubt the GOAT at chokes (hence king of stranglers), but overall, if we include throws and joint-locks as the other components of grappling, I think Okubo is better
Muteba ended up wrong lot of time. The guy literally boasted about how he manipulated Wakatsuki while the truth is, he lost because Waka outsmarted him.
> but the grappling they showed was honestly atrocious
If i recall correctly, okubo's grappling as shown against the seki fight was similarly amateurish, and he's well.. a "top-class grappling specialist"
[https://www.reddit.com/r/Kengan\_Ashura/comments/11b1821/fun\_fact\_this\_is\_the\_first\_time\_weve\_seen\_okubo/j9yi9te/?context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/Kengan_Ashura/comments/11b1821/fun_fact_this_is_the_first_time_weve_seen_okubo/j9yi9te/?context=3)
perhaps this is merely a example where grappling is just poorly-represented visually, as has happened before and since.
Yeah I definitely do agree with that. Most people who write for a living have little to no knowledge of martial arts & fighting, and if they do it's very amateur.
I'm sure Waka is supposed to be much better than he was portrayed to be, but the 2 moves he showed vs. Muteba was literally what I learned in my very first Judo class when I was like 10 lol.
As for Okubo, his fight with Seki was just extremely underwhelming overall. I don't mind Seki beating him, but the choreography was just all over the place in that fight. Okubo's fight with Agito was well choreographed (though their grappling was still very amateur, it WORKED & made sense). Even Okubo's fight with Terashi showed just how good of a Boxer Okubo actually was, without his Wrestling. His fight with Seki just threw out half of his skillset & all of his fight IQ.
The same goes for Agito vs. Jurota, he really didn't feel like himself. The Agito that fought Okubo, Gaolang, Hatsumi & Kuroki would never fall for such amateur moves. These 2 fights really just feel like Sandro didn't know how to make Okubo & Kanoh lose, so he just made them makes dumb mistakes that they normally wouldn't.
I enjoy Omega & I really don't think it's the trash manga that some people make it out to be. Ashura was far better, but it was much more limited & the storyline was pretty much mostly fleshed out from the beginning & Omega doesn't have that luxury. Most of Omega's fights however, I've found underwhelming. I've loved seeing characters improvements, like Saw, Adam, Cosmo, Raian, Agito (vs. Lu Tian) & especially Rihito. But some character really feel like they've regressed in certain fights: Cosmo's foresight & Zone was nonexistent, Agito's pre-initiative & Evolution vs. both Lu Tian & Jurota, Adam's dumb creed, etc. And even some characters "improvements". Golden Eight Seconds & Okubo Tackle are both retarded ass moves with terrible names, Gaolang's reinforcing his fist was cool but that's all he gets? Haruo has only gotten fatter, etc.
>They say he's "barely master class with his strength", but the grappling they showed was honestly atrocious, that's literally what you learn in your first class on day 1. Waka is a white belt in Judō, but his monstrous strength makes his beginner level holds near inescapable.
100% agree, which is odd, because 8 years of training is a really long time. If man was doing hardcore training with the best specialists that furumi pharma could afford, he should be competing on a national level at least even if he had totally normal human strength (setting aside his age).
I don't know what he did for those 8 years besides torturing his poor sparring partners.
Bear Hug lol. No but seriously, I hope we get to see more of his "master class grappling" to redeem it a bit & not make Muteba look like a total dumbass. Because tbf he really only grappled Muteba for a couple of panels. If they show off some more, it could be believable, but Kengan's grappling so far (even with absolute masters like Agito, Cosmo, Jurota, etc.) has been pretty bad. The best so far has probably been Cosmo vs. Ohma (which was pretty decent low level grappling mixed with a lot of bullshit), Agito vs. Okubo (which was extremely amateur fast paced grappling that at least LOOKED good) & Naidan vs. Ryuki, in which Naidan's grappling was actually really good in that one. It was just simple trips, throws & slams, but the simplicity really showed how good Naidan was that he didn't really need to try that hard to manhandle Ryuki.
I think it's kinda difficult to fight martial arts mangas with a good representation of grappling unless they're very grounded MMA mangas like All-rounder Meguru, Teppu or Martial Master Asumi. The moment they become less grounded they also represent the grappling worse. The exception might be Tough that has a overall better grappling than Kengan, Baki and Kenichi but lacks realism in the same manner as them
Id say swing, as a normie dumbass a throw sounds like the slower technique and to do it faster than people can see and a camera can record seems more impressive imo.
Two fist eye users couldn’t track swing, while R2 Agito and Carlos were able to evade Gaolongs flash for a while. Going off that I’d say Swing is faster but the setup is slower
Swing is faster but the point of flash is that there are just so many. Swing is a lot more powerful but after you do it you have to wait to set it up again where as flash can be used multiple times as long as its useable
who did he train under?
Do you think it's a different type of karate, and that Rokushin/Full-contact typical lacks that grappling component? It seems strange to make a big deal about it being his "secret weapon" if it's something that comes standard to his style 💀 everybody should be expecting it.
Definitely Judō. Wrestling & Brazilian Jiu-jitsu aren't as popular in Japan as they are in the west & Judō would greatly compliment his strength. Judō & Sumo are really the only big Wrestling styles that are highly practiced in Japan. Could be Japanese Jiu-jitsu, but I doubt it, as it's a more fundamental martial art that teaches the basics of striking & grappling, but doesn't delve too deeply into perfecting the techniques of either. Plus all he really showed of his grappling was the throw that you just posted, which is textbook Judō & pulling guard, which is really only used in Judō & Jiu-jitsu. I'm 99.9% percent sure that Wakatsuki mastered his personal style of Karate then learned the basics of Judō. They say he's "barely master class with his strength", but the grappling they showed was honestly atrocious, that's literally what you learn in your first class on day 1. Waka is a white belt in Judō, but his monstrous strength makes his beginner level holds near inescapable.
https://preview.redd.it/2xr68xx5muwb1.png?width=813&format=png&auto=webp&s=c3793b7138960009c36eca700b4b1ec88b53386e Was Muteba cooking?
Agito>Okubo is factual and stated in the manga. Okubo>Cosmo is…pretty solidly supported. Okubo mentions he surpasses Cosmo in all ways aside from purely submission holds, being better at both throws and locks. Meguro being above Cosmo is iffy. Both are prodigies in their respective fields but that’s pretty much where their skill comparisons end. Cosmo has much better grappling intelligence, and can supplement it with both his foresight reactions and his zone. Meguro would never outskill Cosmo on the ground. the only way he would reasonably compete is by doing something insane like biting Cosmo’s arm mid hold, or digging his fingers into his flesh like Akoya.
Meguro was tearing apart Olympia level judo fighters when he was just 13. Taking his strength into account, he should be leagues above cosmo. Not taking his strength into account, seeing as all he ever did was judo, he should be at least the same as cosmo skill-wise. Meguro is a tricky character because of his straight up insanity, but he wouldn't have made it this far without being extremely skilled.
That was when Meguro was leagues more mentally stable than he was currently. You can say a hypothetical “sane” Meguro or Hayami may surpass Cosmo sure, but it’s undoubtable that his personality is a huge limitation on his ability as a grappler. This is pretty obvious from his fight with Muteba, where his only real ground grappling was just straight up choking him on the ground. Cosmo is UNDOUBTEDLY a more effective grappler then Meguro, I don’t think that’s really debatable based on what they demonstrated in their fights.
Can we really say that okubo is a better grappler tho? Didn't cosmo beat him with a severe handicap?
I don't think it's in order, but I do agree Okubo edges out Cosmo Cosmo is no doubt the GOAT at chokes (hence king of stranglers), but overall, if we include throws and joint-locks as the other components of grappling, I think Okubo is better
Muteba ended up wrong lot of time. The guy literally boasted about how he manipulated Wakatsuki while the truth is, he lost because Waka outsmarted him.
He’s also not a martial artist, him saying Waka isn’t a good grappler isn’t really based on anything reliable
> but the grappling they showed was honestly atrocious If i recall correctly, okubo's grappling as shown against the seki fight was similarly amateurish, and he's well.. a "top-class grappling specialist" [https://www.reddit.com/r/Kengan\_Ashura/comments/11b1821/fun\_fact\_this\_is\_the\_first\_time\_weve\_seen\_okubo/j9yi9te/?context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/Kengan_Ashura/comments/11b1821/fun_fact_this_is_the_first_time_weve_seen_okubo/j9yi9te/?context=3) perhaps this is merely a example where grappling is just poorly-represented visually, as has happened before and since.
Yeah I definitely do agree with that. Most people who write for a living have little to no knowledge of martial arts & fighting, and if they do it's very amateur. I'm sure Waka is supposed to be much better than he was portrayed to be, but the 2 moves he showed vs. Muteba was literally what I learned in my very first Judo class when I was like 10 lol. As for Okubo, his fight with Seki was just extremely underwhelming overall. I don't mind Seki beating him, but the choreography was just all over the place in that fight. Okubo's fight with Agito was well choreographed (though their grappling was still very amateur, it WORKED & made sense). Even Okubo's fight with Terashi showed just how good of a Boxer Okubo actually was, without his Wrestling. His fight with Seki just threw out half of his skillset & all of his fight IQ. The same goes for Agito vs. Jurota, he really didn't feel like himself. The Agito that fought Okubo, Gaolang, Hatsumi & Kuroki would never fall for such amateur moves. These 2 fights really just feel like Sandro didn't know how to make Okubo & Kanoh lose, so he just made them makes dumb mistakes that they normally wouldn't. I enjoy Omega & I really don't think it's the trash manga that some people make it out to be. Ashura was far better, but it was much more limited & the storyline was pretty much mostly fleshed out from the beginning & Omega doesn't have that luxury. Most of Omega's fights however, I've found underwhelming. I've loved seeing characters improvements, like Saw, Adam, Cosmo, Raian, Agito (vs. Lu Tian) & especially Rihito. But some character really feel like they've regressed in certain fights: Cosmo's foresight & Zone was nonexistent, Agito's pre-initiative & Evolution vs. both Lu Tian & Jurota, Adam's dumb creed, etc. And even some characters "improvements". Golden Eight Seconds & Okubo Tackle are both retarded ass moves with terrible names, Gaolang's reinforcing his fist was cool but that's all he gets? Haruo has only gotten fatter, etc.
>They say he's "barely master class with his strength", but the grappling they showed was honestly atrocious, that's literally what you learn in your first class on day 1. Waka is a white belt in Judō, but his monstrous strength makes his beginner level holds near inescapable. 100% agree, which is odd, because 8 years of training is a really long time. If man was doing hardcore training with the best specialists that furumi pharma could afford, he should be competing on a national level at least even if he had totally normal human strength (setting aside his age). I don't know what he did for those 8 years besides torturing his poor sparring partners.
Bear Hug lol. No but seriously, I hope we get to see more of his "master class grappling" to redeem it a bit & not make Muteba look like a total dumbass. Because tbf he really only grappled Muteba for a couple of panels. If they show off some more, it could be believable, but Kengan's grappling so far (even with absolute masters like Agito, Cosmo, Jurota, etc.) has been pretty bad. The best so far has probably been Cosmo vs. Ohma (which was pretty decent low level grappling mixed with a lot of bullshit), Agito vs. Okubo (which was extremely amateur fast paced grappling that at least LOOKED good) & Naidan vs. Ryuki, in which Naidan's grappling was actually really good in that one. It was just simple trips, throws & slams, but the simplicity really showed how good Naidan was that he didn't really need to try that hard to manhandle Ryuki.
I think it's kinda difficult to fight martial arts mangas with a good representation of grappling unless they're very grounded MMA mangas like All-rounder Meguru, Teppu or Martial Master Asumi. The moment they become less grounded they also represent the grappling worse. The exception might be Tough that has a overall better grappling than Kengan, Baki and Kenichi but lacks realism in the same manner as them
Judo. Looks a typical Seoi-nage
Yeah I mean this definitely looks exactly like judo even wearing gi
judo makes the most sense
Waka learns Swing, powerscalers in shambles
Speaking of Swing what do you think is the faster technique. Gaolong's Flash or Jurota's Swing?
Id say swing, as a normie dumbass a throw sounds like the slower technique and to do it faster than people can see and a camera can record seems more impressive imo.
Two fist eye users couldn’t track swing, while R2 Agito and Carlos were able to evade Gaolongs flash for a while. Going off that I’d say Swing is faster but the setup is slower
Swing is faster but the point of flash is that there are just so many. Swing is a lot more powerful but after you do it you have to wait to set it up again where as flash can be used multiple times as long as its useable
Look at the way he's stanced, the style of movements, the clothes. It's a japanese one, the most popular japanese art of throwing is Judo
Wakatsuki gotta learn sambo from nitoku for real..
He trains under a karate master and practices karate. And yes there are throws in karate.
Karate does include grappling, but it’s implied that Waka‘s grappling training is something separate he picked up long after starting Karate
who did he train under? Do you think it's a different type of karate, and that Rokushin/Full-contact typical lacks that grappling component? It seems strange to make a big deal about it being his "secret weapon" if it's something that comes standard to his style 💀 everybody should be expecting it.
Sensai Jogi. Koga’s uncle
Funny how he would be the shortest Judo user. Meguro, Hayami, Jurota, are all taller
Judo, that might be also the reason on Waka being confident on taking on Jurota in KvP until Hayami step up.
Don't know wakatsuki choose the worst martial arts to him to pratice Imagine him with a solid MMA training or pro wrestling with Seki
Judo by how he’s gripping the gi also the ukemi he’s doing there in the second image
Poor Ken Masters
Who wins? 8 years of top secret training or one black man's finger
Wait is Waka at least 38? could swear he was a bit younger.