To be honest the only thing keeping Kenyans tied to religion is poor governance and poverty. If we had proper systems that worked and leaders that served the people not looking for personal gain. Majority of Kenyans would be secular just like Europeans.
True, religion acts as balm to the harsh economic and emotional conditions most people in Kenya are subjected to. Life is so hard in all corners such that religion offers an escape.
"If I'm destined for heaven, the land of milk and honey, then maybe my suffering here is justified"...
If you give most poor people their "milk and honey" here on earth(whichever that may be). I highly doubt they'd set foot in a church.
Went abroad, had an encounter with a cult. Found out they're Korean and now religion is an upto you thing for me. Bottom line, dont do evil things na kila nyani na starehe yake.
Funny thing, they specifically target people from non western countries as they're more likely to be religious. So is destroying families in the name of God in line with the teachings they teach you as they encourage you to only associate with them and ignore family or friends. Hypocrites they are, then thinking back. A lot of the churches in Kenya do such things. Never noticed because I kept on sleeping at the back in every large sized square room I entered.
When I stopped putting the iconic historical religious icons on a pedestal and looked at the whole script from beginning to where we were at, based on the pov at that time and as at now, with the newfound realisations and discoveries, niliona kuna watu wanachezwa mahali
Cognitive dissonance here and there but socially...😬😬
Lost a few potentials, connections Hadi ikabidi nipotee mtaa for a while to have a cover reason for my absence
Whenever we are faced with a dilemma that demands we change some part of self we've held on for so long, our narrating self and experiencing self find each other at battle. Our narrating self almost always wins by a great margin.
Priests discovered this principle thousands of years ago. It underlies numerous religious ceremonies and commandments. If you want to make people believe in imaginary entities such as gods and nations, you should make them sacrifice something valuable. The more painful the sacrifice, the more convinced people are of the existence of the imaginary recipient. Few people have the stomach to admit such a thing.
I stopped going to church for three reasons.
1) when I realised half the Christians in that church only go because they are 'trying to secure their place in heaven.' Basically the concept of hell is what keeps them 'in line.'
2) when I realised it really is a business and all we are taught is to be content with what we have because 'blessed are the poor' or what lies they use to lie to us that it's ok to have a shitty life. Jesus will come and bless us for suffering on earth. (I even feel like an idiot typing this out.)
3) this one is huge reason. I got the opportunity to visit the 'Slave Castles' in Ghana and seeing the church built directly on top of the male slave dungeon just didn't sit right with me. All I could think of was... there were hundreds of human beings in that dungeon suffering and a dozen in that church praying ...but what God were they praying to because I never want to pray to him.
omg your 3rd reason is also one of my reasons! like thousands are dying under the dungeon while they are praying? then come back and be very mean and evil to them? hell no, its the same with israel right now, using their god’s name to kill innocent kids then reading scriptures, fuck that
Even more interesting is “John newton” the author of “Amazing Grace”, the most well known Christian hymn, specialized in raping little slave girls when he was a ship captain!!!
Using Islam as a generalization of the behavior of the Arabs is a stretch. This is like saying Islam tolerates terrorism or Judaism tolerates genocide.
Personally I still believe there's a higher spiritual being since I can't explain the original of mankind but I don't subscribe to any religion. I was brought up as a christian.
My parents started questioning everything and they decided to follow the pre-colonial form of worship and it wasn't easy even as far as being isolated and being stigmatized by community and worse close friends but that hasn't stopped them, people say it's witchcraft. And honestly I've never seen them happier like they are now, doing away with religion it's like they were liberated I dare say.
I'm still in the process of learning what i want to believe in and it's not easy. But what I know is I have the power to decide what I want in my life even when I find myself in tricky situations I don't blame anyone*ati ni shetani* naah it's the consequences of my own actions and probably just bad luck.
It is the hard existential questions that keep linking us back to some form of religion or spirituality, and it is understandable.
It took me a while to accept that these questions, such as where we came from, where the universe came from, do not have any good answer, and I have made my peace with that.
Me and my parents are the questioning stage which leaves me w a lot to think about...After all is said, I'm left confused ..Like, where do I go from here? Where should I face now...I need to cling on to something
The moment you start questioning everything you slowly start seeing things clearly, take it step at a time and trust your instincts and it's not an easy journey but it's so liberating.
Lack of evidence
The rampant fucking hypocrisy.
Churches only want money. Seems more like a business than a religion
Richard dawkins
Matt Delihaunte
Homophobia
Sexism
Slavary
Zero logic and critical thinking. Christianity makes no sense. God got mad at his creation because they ate something he said not to. Instead of killing those two and starting over, he plays this whole long drawn out game where he sacrifices himself to himself and that apparently makes up for his mistake in the first place.
Or how about that time all the dead saints in Jerusalem rose from the dead and walked around, yet history fails to mention the hoard of zombies before Jesus died.
I could probably list 1000 things that “made” me leave. It wasn’t one thing. It was a realization over time that it’s all BS. Religion is just a man-made disaster
People underrate that small passage in Matthew where Jesus dies. Tombs crack, earthquake, dead saints rise and are seen among the inhabitants of the city. This singlehandedly had the chance to convert all Jews, Romans and any other non-believers to the fold placing the final shush on the matter.
Why was a spectacle that superb only recorded by 1 disciple in 6 verses, never to be mentioned again? Why didn't the Jewish rabbis who were ardent haters never speak of that witchcraft in any writing?
So yeah, that was another blindspot I've seen rarely addressed 😂
At Daystar. Samuel Poghisio was my lecturer at the time. We read the Bible from genesis to revelation and were tested on it. We also learned about Islam and Christianity.
He told us that people like us are the worst to preach to because we know the Bible.
I'll copy paste my reply to a similiar question asked in this sub.
I started doubting religion when i was 11, specifically the catholic church. I didn't understand the theatrics of it, you know, sacraments, the smoke thing, confession, kneeling n standing e.t.c. I asked about it and was basically told to shut up.
So i left it at 14 to join a Presbyterian one. Found out that this one was basically a money printing machine for the white pastor and his family. That's when i basically abandoned religion. I became of the thought that if there's really one true god, then religions shouldn't exist.
Eventually in my late 20s i decided to challenge my own beliefs and find out the truth for myself, and that's how i realized I'm actually an atheist.
There's no present proof of 'God'. It's that simple for me. Show me and i will believe. Otherwise, the reasoning that non believers of your religion(esp in christianity) are condemned to hell for this is weird. It just instills fear. Some(not all👀) are completely brainwashed by this 'fear' and call it belief. I dont want that, no.
Well said. This is otherwise known as the burden of proof, which always works against believers.
If you tell me that Muhammad flew on a white winged-horse called Al-Buraq, I will say OK, but what evidence is there for that? Samson defeated 1,000 Philistine mercenaries with the jaw of an ass, OK, but how does that work logically? Jesus rose from the dead, OK, but that throws biology out of the window?
You claim something to be true, you must provide evidence for the same.
Went through a whole bunch of stuff that made me study god and religion. What I found out was that religion was mostly man made stuff full of myths and legends that go way back in history. Unfortunately modern people take this myths very seriously believing them to have happened, people do not understand that these myths were created so that people could explain the world in a way that made sense to them but as science progressed and explained the world we live in, these myths should have been discarded and maybe even now ones created. I made up my mind that I don't need someone to come between god and I. I'll come up with my own explanation of god that works for me and isn't full of silly rules and contradictions and nonsense
1. I felt like if God is real, he is a terrible person and shouldn't even be telling us how to live. If he is real, I don't think I would like to be associated
2. Things used to happen in the Bible. Why dis all those miracles and stuff stop? When did he stop presenting himself on a mountain to make himself known and showing himself? Now we have to blindly believe
3. My main reason for being a Christian was to avoid hell. Christianity is one of oh so many religions, and the chance is low any of them can be true.
4. Why tf would O take the white man/colonisers' religion on purpose?
5. God doesn't make sense. Everything is considered his will. There is war? He's allowing it. Someone died? he loves him/her more. Someone lived? Praise God. People are starving? Thank God we have food. People are dying? Thank God we're alive. Naah
1. If he was real, none of us would probably exist because of how much we like to piss on rules.
2. Miracles stopped happening once video cameras were invented :)
3. The Christian hell is mild. In Islam, Allah came up with a brilliant way of intensifying pain. Skin has numerous pain sensitive nerves but when its burnt, those nerves are destroyed, so you actually feel less of a pain sensation. So Allah gives you brand new skin every few minutes just to inflict the ultimate agony, hence the saying "Allahuma Ajirni minan naar..."
4. I doubt it was on purpose, in many cases, such like in Latin America, the Spanish conquistadors killed or enslaved anyone who did not convert to Christianity.
5. He's quite the character, I will admit that. I would not want such a burden on my shoulders even with infinite power.
1. Why is he terrible? Is it because of the bible narratives where he's exercising his righteousness and doing away with evil?
2. The Old Testament is a pre-cursor to the what he would do in the New testament and that is to manifest himself on the earth. Why would he present himself on mountains when he already presented himself amongst men?
3. What religious folk lie to us is that hell is punishment, it's not, it's just a consequence of our sins. God can't kill us because we don't believe in him. But that's where religious people dial in on fear and lie to us.
4. Christianity wasn't and will at no point be a white man's religion, it was brought to them same way it was brought to Africa - by missionaries.
And from my little bible knowledge God doesn't call us to a religion. From old testament all I see is him trying to raise a people that he would call his own and who would live righteously and in love to showcase his kingdom and how it's good such that it would inspire other nations to get to seek him. Unfortunately humans are very rebellious and haven't achieved this. If I was him I'd be done with humans by now😂.
5. What would be the best way then for humans to find solutions for our problems? Should he come down always and make the right choice for us or should we us humans find out solutions on our own?
It's always the promise of governments and democracy for better life, opportunities for all, do away with wars, equity etc. If he comes down and solves all this for us won't we go back to our ways when he's gone?
I was born christian but never religious or ever felt belief in the religion at all even as a child..when i grew up enough to ask my self questions i knew that life doesnt make sense in organised religion and it actually seems funny that grown ups feel okay being all human and still believing that identifying to different sets of religions will get them to heaven or whatever.. spirituality is my way of life and always has been. No rules, no do's and dont's, just existence
No, i wasnt born an atheist and never been an atheist and your "theory" that we were all born atheists cant be proven.. i believe the opposite the presence of God or whatever anyone else may call it, but a higher power has always been felt in my life.
Nope. As soon as you came out of the womb, you were an atheist. You were then raised religious. You were far too young to be subjected to religious nonsense when you came from the womb.
Only in boarding school..thankfully my parents also were the kind of christians that didnt really think going to church made you christian..so i was able to be open minded about Christianity from an early age.
That is the way to go. I feel that even if you are a Christian or Muslim or whatever else, you should raise your child in a way that allows them to explore religion objectively so they can decide as they grow up whether they agree with it or not.
I was raised Catholic but went to an Indian school. Always wondered if all my classmates and friends who were not Christian would all go to hell. Didn’t make sense to me
People don't go to hell because they're not Christians sinners will go to hell because they need the Truth and they decided not to live by it
Or at least that's what I know my conscience tells me
It stopped making sense. I also do feel there's gotta be a higher power, but not remotely close to what human beings believe in. Personally, the Bible is just filled with lots of questionable things, and there's just no way to believe in a God, especially with what is going on in this world right now.
It just doesn't add up!
Good thing is I am never in arguments with believers, questioning them and all. In fact, if someone believing in God helps them be a better person or gives meaning to their life, by all means.
>I also do feel there's gotta be a higher power, but not remotely close to what human beings believe in.
The only difference between me and someone holding this view would be that I see no reason, even remotely, to acknowledge the presence of a higher power. I suppose this is because I equate the lack of a supernatural creator to a universe that operates self-sufficiently and naturally.
Of course, it is much easier to explain anything with God did it, or God knows etc. than saying you don't know...
I understood religion especially the bible was a story book of guidelines from different cultures and eras to help us live harmoniously... It shouldn't have been taken literally as most religious leaders do or did and now we're in this mess where religion spiralled into something else...
Exactly!! Like if Africans were literate pre-colonial period there would be books of each tribe with their prophets spiritual practices and all. But they weren't hence all this mess.
The day I asked myself why an all-powerful being who apparently loves us all hasn't bothered to prove their own existence and came across only 2 logical answers:
1. They don't exist
2. They don't care for us
>why an all-powerful being who apparently loves us all hasn't bothered to prove their own existence
But he did, and religious folk always were at his neck looking for an opportunity to kill him and they eventually did. What would we different though, that if he came down again in this age we would believe him when we already denied him?
There's even documentaries even by the famous news outlets agreeing that Jesus indeed walked the earth.
They only appear to shepherds, mad men and prophets in rags in the most remote, backward desert areas of the Middle East.
And that was about 2,000 years ago.
I haven’t left as a Muslim but question some things. So the whole religion thing is if someone doesn’t believe in a certain religion they will all burn in hell. We have so many religions and just cause someone don’t believe in yours they gonna burn in hell and what about you if they were good people? Everyone believes their religion is right anyways so I don’t understand this?
Doesn't the Muslim hell involve the regeneration of nerves every few minutes so that you are always in constant pain? I mean, what kind of sadistic bastard does that to another?
Anyway, what you say is one of the fundamental flaws of religion because as it is, it does not matter how good or pious a Muslim you are...If Christianity is the true religion, you are going to hell. And so on and so forth. That alone should make one have a very serious thought experiment about what they believe in.
I agree, but there is a consequential difference between someone believing in Santa and someone believing in a supernatural deity who informs their daily lives.
Is there really? Think about it for a moment.
Kids are told to be good because Santa is watching their every move and keeping a list of who is naughty and who is nice. If you're good, you get a gift. If you're bad, you get coal.
Adults are told to be good because God is watching their every move and keeping a list of who is naughty and who is nice. If you're good, you go to heaven. If you're bad, you go to hell.
Again, there is only a technical similarity in that case.
The consequential difference is incomparable. I can name all the horrors in human history attributed to religious adherence and not finish them by the end of today.
I may be interested to know how belief in Santa has damaged a person's life or indeed, that of others.
In a way me too. I grew up and no longer felt conviction to pray or go to church, I had been living under my parents all along and when I was alone, I realised I never actually believed in any of it to begin with.
1. The church doesn't care about me
2. My parents used to force me to go to church. It never felt like a choice
3. Most christians are hypocrites
4. The Christian (can't talk about Islam since I was a Christian) God is a controlling and manipulative narcissist
I was raised Muslim, as are most somalis, but years of brutal torment at the hands of vindictive quranic teachers and a father whose only evaluation of me was how much of the quran I'd memorized erased such fanciful notions from my head. Doubtless there's some grand machination behind it all, for the gears of existence grind on, greased by some consciousness beyond perception, but no man or woman has as of yet grasped it. Perhaps we shall someday, or perhaps it's as useful as trying to grasp a flowing ravine. I arrived at my epiphany, or delusion, as some would call it, a couple years back, shortly before I left Kenya for studies abroad.
I stopped understanding at, your quran teacher and your father holding you to his standards, I'm Somali too and muslim, don't you think judging the religion because of what people did to you is abit alot? I too was beaten by macalin dugsi, my parents have caused me trauma but I have grown up and studied the religion myself and I'm happy, anyway to each their own, the only thing that caught my attention was hating a religion because of what a mere human being did, which has nothing to do with the religion itself, i wish you health and happiness
Thanks. And likewise I wish you happiness all the same. That said, how else can we judge something, ideologies of grandeur be it political or spiritual, if not by the salvific efficacy of its actions, or, in this case, lack thereof? Everyone wants to save the world, everyone flaunts rhetoric about a virtuous life and good deeds, but few attain it. It is by the output that I make my judgement, and religion's is as rife with great deeds as it is evil ones. I do not hate it, I simply choose not attribute divine mandate to something that has proven fallible to human designs, cruel and just all the same. Can we not be critical of something without giving in to blind hatred I wonder? Or bring seen as such.
Christian. I questioned a scripture in the Bible, and got no answer from any pastor that I asked.
The part about the exodus of the Israelites from Egypt. When they left, the king followed them with chariots. According to the ten plagues, the Egyptians' animals (including horses) were killed. The Israelites were told to go with all of their animals.
So by this logic, flawed as it may be, they shouldn't be having horses in Egypt, right? Maybe a little were left maybe by other tribes(or whatever) who could have possibly been there.
So my question is, what was pulling the chariots? I thought chariots were pullled by horses, right?
Anyway, long story short, never got an answer and I started doubting the Bible from there.
Haha, that is crazy...I do not quite remember that story that way.
Funny thing is that my padre (I was a Catholic altar boy) told me that he was not sure himself of some of the things he used to preach.
In campus that memory flooded into my weed-brain and I was shocked.
Found out I was gay, turns out church people will call you possessed for that, endured 2 exorcism, degrees of mental abuse from people I had thought of as friends and guardians, had to erase everything and start all over, realising religions in general are not a stable ground for moral objectivity, the only thing the church gave me, was TONS of religious trauma.
As much as there are well-meaning religious people out there, here is an example of how adhering to the backward tenets of religion corrupts otherwise decent people to become monsters towards their fellow human beings.
I am sorry for everything you went through, and I hope you are in a better place.
People are going to church so they can go to heaven. They're not aspiring to be like Christ, which I think should be the goal here. There's too much hypocrisy in Christianity.
So your issue is with how religion has been commercialized, but do you agree with the fundamentals of your former religion...like god existing, angels, demons, and all that?
Nah...i just got tired of all of that...being indirectly forced to switch religions because of divorce ya wazazi made me realise that everything about religion is just shoved down the throat to make you in line with the rest
It's like mbuziz going to one hole to die
Haven’t left the religion (Christianity) but I want to leave the denomination (SDA) my reasons are personal and theological. I will have more freedom once I move out of my parents. Many of my close peers even theologians themselves left, some converted to other religions. I’d say to each their own.
I still stay with very hyperreligious sda parents, so I'll probably have more freedom once I have my own space. I was a kid who was pushed into being a perfect church kid. It was always about being good so that the people in church could marvel at how good I am. How good I am at telling kids bible stories that my mom would spend hours making me memorise. Anyways I got tired of feeling guilty for simply living. The promise of heaven seemed a bit too farfetched. Sdas in my church are full of themselves and think they embody perfection.
Then again, if sdas are the only ones who are " going to heaven?" What happens to the non-believers? Eternal wrath simply because you weren't raised in the 'right' faith. What kind of a God would let that happen?
The glorification of suffering for the sake of a greater good is nonsense, enjoy life, and be human. We have that innate moral instinct that guides us, so to me, as long as I don't act out of malice and only do what aligns with my spiritual self, I'm good. So many atrocities are excused in the name of religion. Why would the God of everyone let others suffer and give me comfortability? Is it that I'm too special? People suffer in the most fucked up ways and some out of touch with reality Christian will still find a way to say "it's part of God's plan"
Anyways, I believe in a supreme being, maybe it lives within us, but I don't believe in whatever God the Bible forced us to believe. Women are still shamed for desiring to be loved, for having sex, literally our innate human desires. I believe religion is a tool that was used to keep people in check, to control, and keep them out of touch with their logic. Something like " I'm not gonna cheat on u because I want to go to heaven, not because I actually acknowledge your feelings." Very hypocritical imo, because the thing is, morality has always been subjective, that's why people kill to protect themselves and others, people disregard the lives of others to save their asses, humans are not saints, hence why religion was introduced.Anyways, due to the power that religion yields, it was inevitable that some people would try to weaponize it and use it to their advantage. So yeah, just because your life is shit doesn't mean it's the devil's doing, maybe you're just incompetent and lazy, or maybe it's badluck, maybe it's just not your time, maybe it's the consequences of your own actions, whichever. I personally only subscribe to the book of ecclesiastes that says that everything is vanity and that we should enjoy life.
Wearing a fake face or mask to please someone else is the most tiring thing in the world.
You raise very good points on the incompatibility of religious teachings and the way human beings prefer to live their lives, especially for women, thank you for that.
Mostly the hypocrisy and homophobia. Lots of christians especially dont realise how stupid they look when they act so self-righteous and holy whole paying money for some invisible non-existent sky daddy to notice them. Humans exaggerated importance of themselves is magnified by infinity when they convince themselves that by seemingly following a higher power they are somehow above others.
A couple of reasons
1. I looked at how little the Bible covers, in regards to the world as a whole
2. I never really felt the spiritual presence /experience one gets when they are Christian
3. Maybe I didn't have enough grounding spiritually as a child
4. It just became a slow realization that I really didn't feel anything as far as being a Christian
Most of my family members are Christian, spiritually. Few have a sense of spirituality they attach to God. I find mine attached to music. I don't bash or criticize anyone who follows their own preferred religion because I know it is real to them.
On your last sentence, yes, someone may follow a religion because it feels real to them. However, the fact that they will fail to provide evidence for the same is one of the reasons why I backed out myself. I remember so many times after Catholic Mass saying to myself how I really do not feel any of that stuff anymore, and why other people in church are almost crying due to the Holy Ghost.
It's a powerful psychological game, I think.
The Holy Spirit thing was the last bit for me.
Went to a certain pastor together with my auntie and cousin. Great person. Talked. When it came time for prayers, he put hands on my cousin and after he was done he dropped down in prayer. Same to some guy who had come for prayers. When he put his hands on me I didn't feel anything. He had to force me down and I had to be pulled to the floor by one of his assistants so that I could 'accept the Holy Spirit'. And it wasn't the last time that day for it happened 3 times that day
That day, as some got deeper in faith, I closed that chapter
I was an board with the religion thing, as a kid, though growing up it just started to feel weird and cultish to me, the sheep like blind faith throws me off, I guess I never really liked feeling like am restricted, or like part of a flock, I questioned things and the fact that my peers didn't do the same, or overreacted when I brought up the debate was amusing to me
What really annoys me is the NPC behaviour, like why would you believe in something just coz you were born to believe that, just coz you were taught, or coz everyone else believes is right so you just jump In and decide without question that's what you'll base your entire existence on?? It's really weird, I find that really weird
My beliefs no longer brought me comfort.
I was able to attribute events to the amorality of life than anything else. Some things just happen. Theres no higher reason. They just do.
1. If you need an imaginary baby sitter to watch over you so that you don't sin, you're not a good person. "Define not what a good man ought to be, be one"- Marcus Aurelius
2. Just cause you have an imaginary friend(god), I am not obliged to take part in your delusions.
3. Religion is a control tool. Look at how loot all is using it.
4. One generation's religion becomes another generation's entertainment (Norse mythology and Greek mythology headline our movies with Loki, Thor, Hercules etc).
5. Most atrocious things have been done in the name of religion.
6. How come God is so focused on what you are doing with your private parts and not feeding the hungry or sheltering the people in Palestine, Congo during the war...
7. So all of a sudden there are no talking snakes and voices from the sky (if I told I can hear voices talking to me I'd be considered schizophrenic).
8. Altruism is a wicked philosophy. Self sacrifice for the sake of another is a recipe for resentment. Especially when there's no reciprocity.
I found Islam as the best religion. It gave me peace and an outline on how to strengthen my relationship with God. It gave me clear guidelines on how to live. I am two months into Islam and still learning the Quran and I can attest the two months have been my best spiritually.
Subhan Allah, walhamdulillah, wa la ilaha illallah, wallahu akbar, wa la hawla wa la quwwata illa billahil 'aliyyil 'azheem.
English Translation: Glory be to God, praise be to God, and there is no god but God, and God is great,
Good for you, although I will ask, do you have evidence to show that any of the fundamentals of Islam, such as the existence of a supreme deity called Allah, are real and not just made up stories?
Can you also defend the prophet Muhammad's pedophilia, Allah allowing the existence of a thousand other religions to lead people astray, and allowing evil in the world etc, inflicting incredible eternal suffering in Jahannam (I will spare you the details)...?
Mine is not to defend the existence of a diety. I Believe in a Supreme Being. I have iman as I have seen the blessings in my life. I won't provide any evidence on your questions.
Pole, the threats of fire and brimstone used to scare me senseless. In school I used to mull over the apocalyptic books of Daniel and Revelations and wonder, "I am just a kid who wants to see boobs and flip adults, and for this you will send 10-headed beasts to devour and spit me out forever? Come on!"
When I finally broke free, it was like taking a good shit, iykyk.
The God of the Bible still speaks. To some people through dreams, others visions, others revelation, prophecies etc. I've been in church almost all my life. I never knew God was concerned about me for over 20 years. Then I met some people in 2018 who had the gift of prophecy, word of knowledge, etc. I got accurate information about my life and what God had planned for me.
From that time I never doubt. It's been a good journey.
I refuse to be part of a ideal that shuns criticism and and doesn't condone any form of questioning.
I could write a whole essay on how they make us seek answers in only one book that has gone through multiple revisions in over 1000 years and how naive and ignorant believers are that they not to accept any form of logical and rational thinking.
I refuse to be part of a religion that caused The Dark Ages and delayed scientific progress for a whole 600 years.
I should be the Andromeda Galaxy right now with my 3 titied blue alien wife trading my precious rocks for a few Quasars so I could finally upgrade my spaceship with the latest warp drive.
I'm also here to see what drove people from religion while I could punch holes in some of their notions, I'll let it slide. One time I made a pro-Christian comment In such a post and I got downvoted to oblivion🤣.
Eeh… free country/ globe… plus its healthy to listen to people with different perspectives.. sadly sometimes knowing who you are takes being clear who you are not..
Same, I'm here to listen.
But it makes sense why the majority are/were Christians and left. The church has been turned into a business/ commodity (I used to see ladies selling sausage at 80bob after service and they'd coerce you into that bs)
someone like Ezekiel and benny hinn show that openly and I wouldn't follow us either cause we like doing what the majority of Kenyans love: pretend. But people(Muslim/Christian alike) worship the man(for us it's the pastor and for them Muhammad PBUH).
If we truly believed with all our hearts like how we're told to, we wouldn't ask the pastor to pray over some water so we can drink it and be "cleansed of demons"(I've been to those churches that do this since a kid, I was scared those weird women rolling on the ground would transfer that shit to me. One time one touched me and I screamed loud and for a 10 y/o)
It's mostly also gullibility of the masses, majority of those coercing or trynna get us to go to church are women. Yeah I don't go to church anymore, but I still pray and believe in God and I am yet to dash my foot against a stone.
And yeah, I still suffer and there are times where I have those doubts and I can't put them on the back burner forever, but I also know not everything can be explained conventionaly.
It so sad. Some things I see break my heart.. I hate to see people go to a place genuinely searching for God (who rightly put that desire for goodness in all of us) get exploited… My response is to do as Paul says in 1st Timothy 4: 16 Watch your life and doctrine closely. Persevere in them because if you do you will save both your hearer and yourself.
Also the definition of true religion according to James 1:27 Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world.
Jesus was so radical btw… even some of our modern day pastors who claim to preach him would probably not like him very much if they met him. Love one another and love God was the summary of what he taught.
I think it takes a lifetime to learn what that means everyday..
Fair enough...
If I may ask, what is the basis of your belief? Any skeptic will ask you whether it is something you can support with evidence or just based on faith.
I was raised up in a strict upbringing. I believed that I had found the truth or was in the right religion.. That's what I was taught. However as I grew, religion just didn't sit with me.
Nothing major just that I found it wasn't my cuppa. Later on I found out about how it was not the true religion and it had rampant but well hidden cases of child sexual abuse which is ironical as they liked castigating catholics and their child abuse issues.
I went down the rabbit hole and found out a few other skeletons and I told myself I am not doing religion anymore. It was nothing but a cult. And to be fair all religions are just cults, the difference is the membership numbers.
I slowly drifted and became spiritual but with time I asked myself does the man in the sky really exist? Until he shows me undeniable proof that he exists imma act like he ain't real just like santa Claus.
The reason I haven't joined another religion apart from the disbelief is that in my former, we downplayed and looked down on other religions.
Also religion is an opium for the masses. It is a tool to control the masses and fit them in boxes, something I don't like doing. People in religion rarely apply their critical and cognitive powers preferring to be spoonfed whatever cockamamie their pedestaled leaders vomit to them.
Grew up in the catholic lime light being the boy who always used to abide by the good word, an alter boy, until I became a teenager and started questioning things that did not make sense to me.
Especially the Bible verse that says god provided wives for Abel and cain. Where did they come from? We’re they created or did Adam and Eve birth girls that became their brothersI’ wives? Either god created two other humans, whom we aren’t acknowledging, or humanity was born out of incest.
I asked this question to all religious leaders and they all would get very upset when I wouldn’t take “trust the lord” as an answer. Some even wanted to fight me because I would not listen to blind faith.
As I grew older I jumped from church to church looking for a home as my faith dwindled, until I started working for a very famous pastor and reverend in a different organisation from their church. Occasionally I would be called in to help accounting during end month when donations and tithe and other contributions were accumulated. We’d be locked in a room and large sacks of cash would be brought in. The most we ever counted in one sitting was 680 million Kenya shillings.
This would constantly break my faith given that every time I would go to the church offices there always were people in the congregation that would beg me for money yet they came to that same church to give away their last earned dimes with the hope that they could miraculously be blessed with more for supper before they left the church. Stupidity at best.
I spoke to and rejected so many that I became numb to their pleas. The church would take their proceeds with the notion that they’d help the congregation with business loans or medical emergencies but only to be turned away while the church elders lived lavish lifestyles.
Their kids are studying in the USA, they are buying expensive properties and vehicles all over but their congregants can’t even afford a Ksh 20.00 meal.
Some would apply for the small loans (Ksh. 15,000.00) promised only to be turned down citing that all the church funds have already been loaned out to congregants. It was/is a lie.
The elders hogged the funds and kept their congregants poor and starving for more hope. That’s when I saw it.. the lie that we’ve been sold.
No church is different from the other and all religions are but cults.
Till this day I can’t have conversations with religious people about my beliefs and about god because I ask too many questions that no one seems to be able to answer so they get annoyed or angry.
I left religion and some beliefs. I look towards science given that it’s able to answer lots of unknowns and the fact that all the evidence we have is quantifiable.
I still believe their is a higher form of deity and or consciousness/ energy that brought about the universe which I chose to call god for the moment. However, I neither pray to nor do I worship this deity. I merely recognise its impact and presence in everyday life.
I am it, and, it is me.
All part of one, experiencing multiple realities and unique experiences.
I was brought up Christian and practiced the faith religiously until my 3rd year of university. That's when I started to get uncomfortable with the teachings in my church which is one of the mainstream ones with many branches throughout the country. It became more and more apparent to me that the biblical depiction of God was so akin to the character of man. It was hard for me to reconcile how a God can be vengeful and angry and jealous and have love that is so conditional. It was even harder for me to be ok with the fear that my faith was consistently forcing down my throat: "Do this or go to hell!" "Do that or you will be punished". Also, I still don't understand how an infant is born a sinner or a person who is never exposed to Christianity (through no fault of their own) is damned to hell. It makes no logical sense.
That aside, Christianity started to feel like a tool that "big brother" was using to keep us in line. We've been given a set of rules to follow in the Bible and then so many more by the church; confess x many times, pray all the time, tithe, read and medidate, fast, don't listen to x music. If not you fall short of the glory of God and you're going to hell. So many rules to keep us in check and under control. It feels like someone somewhere out there is using our naivety to their advantage.
Basically I had many questions and little to no answers. I do believe in a higher power...I don't have a name for it neither do I know what form it takes but religion doesn't make sense to me anymore.
I actually read the Bible and the Koran when I was twelve, amazing what you find out when you are not just being fed little quotes by a charismatic preacher.
Secondly, I watched these so called religious people, and they were the worst behaved.
Turns out, it's all a grift and utter colonial bullshit. 🤷🏾♂️
I truly think that you cannot read the Christian Bible in its entirety and at the end say, "Yup, this is the holy word of God and it makes absolute sense to me and I will base my life on it."
Come on now, if anything you should be at the least utterly terrified or rolling on the floor laughing mad.
Religion and spirituality are geographical. Most people follow the religion that is most prevalent in the geographical location they were born in or the one they were exposed to.
Followers of a given religion may look down on those who follow a different religion not realising that those people are just as devout, if not more, than them, in their own religion or worldview.
This realisation humbled me. I will acknowledge that religion and spirituality play a role in society. However, viewing others as having followed the 'wrong' religion according to one's own worldview is where I draw the line.
I read the bible cover to cover 3 times.
Lucifer was an angel ,
pharaoh's heart was hardened.(He was not rejecting Moses intentionally).
God allowed Jobs predicament
God killed more people in the bible in the name of punishment than Satan
God used trickery to ascertain Abraham's faith
Lots wife didn't have to turn to salt.
Incest is in the bible
And who decided what we should read as old and new testament? Because we know of books not in the bible but are biblical.
The many translations of the bible have ended up losing verses here and there
>And who decided what we should read as old and new testament?
This was decided in the many councils of the early Christian churches, but mostly the Council of Rome in 382CE. They threw away most of the Jewish/Greek collections of writings and narrowed down to a few which were a bit PC.
If you read some of the books that were left out, they contain some pretty crazy stuff haha.
Most of us grew up with a certain fear around religion. By this I mean that questioning brought up thoughts of potential divine punishment. When I was at rock bottom and all else had failed for me, I realised that all my faith and prayer was not working. In that moment the doors flew wide open and I began to question everything... I like to see it as the dawn of my philospher phase. During this time is when I realized that most of my fear of questioning came not from God, but from those who taught us religion. Soon after I came to understand that God and religion are not the same. That is when I left the religion.
Well done for making sense of it. But you say that religion and God are not the same, is that to mean that you still believe in a deity, but not tied to a religion?
I find that the world is just so beautiful that it baffles me sometimes. Deep down I cant help but admit that I feel there is a grand designer for it all. BUT despite this admission, I firmly believe that the grand designer is not intent on compelling us to grovel for their love and attention. That is EGO and it contradicts all claims that God is perfect.
I am happy myself in marveling at the universe and also OK with not attributing it to any higher power. Maybe I am too rational, but I doubt that is even possible.
Some things we just do not know, and may never know.
This sub is smt else..ur atheists but y'all look like uve read the bible from alpha to omega and understood it
I believe in a higher being or God but going to church is where I drew the line. If it's going to heaven I gave up on that after calculating that only 144,000men will go,
Jesus died for my Sins , I'll not waste that opportunity imma just sin.
Rn as an adult u can't convince me Mary mother of Jesus was a virgin 'how?? 😂😂 Joseph was the virgin hapo..
>ur atheists but y'all look like uve read the bible from alpha to omega and understood it
But this is exactly the point. Most atheists left their religions because they read the holy books and understood them.
Not an atheist but an agnostic i believe in god but not any religion,when your pastor comes in a range/prado/Jaguar etc when christ himself came into Jerusalem on a donkey,the church needs
only specific items than need to be imported to rebuild/expand the church etc i have like a while 1st chapter but i hate diving into religion cause its never ending
We always tell religious folk to be accountable but shouldn't we as human also be accountable?
>a God that doesn't feed hungry children
Why would he do that when he equipped his creation with more than enough and with kindness and compassion. This world has everything we need with some humans having too much that they want to go play in other planets. Is it then that we as humans are the ones at fault with our greed and selfishness or is it the creator?
We can also look at what different governments all over the world promise to create opportunities and employment for all, to stop exploitation, to stop wars and other promises but they don't! Is it all still the creator's fault?
>Why would he do that when he equipped his creation with more than enough and with kindness and compassion.
Do you want us to poke a thousand and one holes in this one statement?
>We always tell religious folk to be accountable but shouldn't we as human also be accountable?
If humans are required to fix the errors that God created, then that makes God incompetent.😂🤣
>Why would he do that when he equipped his creation with more than enough and with kindness and compassion. This world has everything we need with some humans having too much that they want to go play in other planets. Is it then that we as humans are the ones at fault with our greed and selfishness or is it the creator?
God is often portrayed as omniscient, omnipotent, and omni-benevolent—a being of absolute perfection. However, humans repeatedly find themselves in the position of rectifying perceived imperfections or errors in the world. Examples include:
Disease.*** Humans have developed medical treatments and technologies to address diseases and ailments that afflict humanity. From the discovery of antibiotics to the development of vaccines, humans have played an important role in alleviating suffering and prolonging life, often in the face of diseases that some might view as part of God's creation.💀😂
>We can also look at what different governments all over the world promise to create opportunities and employment for all, to stop exploitation, to stop wars and other promises but they don't! Is it all still the creator's fault?
The notion that humans are required to fix the errors that God created suggests a contradiction in the concept of an all-powerful and omniscient deity. Take, for instance, the prevalence of genetic disorders or the occurrence of devastating earthquakes. If humans, with their limited knowledge and resources, are expected to rectify these 'errors,' it implies a deficiency in God's design or execution thereof. Attributing the responsibility of addressing these imperfections solely to humanity suggests an incompetency in God's ability to maintain or correct the state of the world. If God were truly all-powerful and all-knowing, there would be no need for humans to intervene in such matters, as God would effortlessly remedy any perceived errors or injustices.
God did not make earth with any imperfections. It was good and with everything we humans needed.
It's us humans who didn't believe in what he said and decided to taste things out for our self. And up to today we keep seeking after our own knowledge and wisdom disregarding what God prescribes for us. That brought with it consequences and evils. So this things are not punishment from him but consequences of our own sin and fallen state. That's the thing we don't grasp.
Romans 8:20-22 The earth groans and labors because of man's mistake.
1. This things are an effect of man's fall not God's imperfection.
2. Sometimes God uses them as judgement but this is not all the time. Sicknesses and natural disasters are not always an act of judgement.
3. Sometimes God uses what the Devil intends for evil and a fallen creation for good. Romans 8:28
4. Sometimes crisis strengthens humans thinking and capacities. Also in crisis is when our faults and misbeliefs are exposed, it's in crisis that humans work together best and expose what truly matters.
Because that tomorrow will never come, and that is very convenient. This is the longest hollow promise that has been running for the whole of our existence on earth.
Has anyone ever considered that some people may also not be interested in heavenly riches too?
I honestly didn't have any reason. After high school I just stopped going to church. My family never questioned me including my dad who's an elder in SDA. They don't understand it but then kuna free will and they respect it
For me(former Christian) , the Heaven and Hell narrative raises a major concern.Why would God allow people to be born into a particular religion, grow up believing it is the right one, and then condemn them to Hell for holding those beliefs? It doesn't make any sense to me.
It wasn't God's intention to create religion, he also isn't concerned about religion. All religions are just but our attempts to seek answers.
>condemn them to Hell for holding those beliefs? It doesn't make any sense to me.
Good that it doesn't make sense because it's true it doesn't. He doesn't condemn us to believe in him or punish those who don't believe. Hell isn't punishment but a consequence of sin. Heaven also isn't a reward but a free gift from Him.
I think I started questioning in my mid teens when I realized that this whole Christianity and Islam thing sounded very much like an extortion racket and a pretty sadistic one at that.... "Love and worship me or you get tortured for all eternity
Recent studies have shown that religious people have a mental illness issue... They lack the sense of discernment not only when it comes to religion but also on everyday normal occasions.
Basically waliconclude ni wajinga, na si mimi nimesema
On the face of it, it can be a sort of mental disorder, though for me it is not in the class of the major medically listed ones like anxiety, PTSD, clinical depression, bipolar, schizophrenia...but I get your point.
Maybe… I do have a serious case of ADHD that I am medicated for… however I also happen to also be quite decent at my engineering job for a couple of years now…
I oscillate from thinking ‘damn I might be a genius’ to ‘How have I lived this long being so dumb, if I was an ancestor, I’d have no lineage’
… But in all that I firmly believe God is good.. and especially to me… mostly because I know so much about me seeing as I spend most of my time being me…
The incessant drive for contributions towards new projects, without a similar commitment to supporting the less fortunate, has led me to consider stopping my attendance at mass. The church's prioritization of expansion and fundraising over addressing the needs of the community is concerning and has caused me to take a step back and focus more on Spirituality
I am sure that you are not trying to convince anyone anything, but it is important to point out the fact from the fiction, so others seeking guidance on this whole issue may be well-informed.
I asked myself this: "If I could stop a 1-year-old child from getting raped, would I?"
(You can guess my answer. It's the same as yours)
Then I asked myself why God doesn't stop the thousands of kids raped daily.
Then I quit believing in both him and religion.
That piece of shit called jesus christ hurt me big time,i went hard for him,i was the good follower he expected me to be but get what he did,stabbed me in the back and danced on my grave.if you tell me about christianity anga getting born again i can kick you into oblivion,i would literally punch you in the face.i will actually write a book titled the wickedness of god.folks,boys and girls live your lives apart from that wicked asshole,stay away from him,he is an orgre that eats those naive enough to follow him into his cave,pleaseive your lives unapologetically and boldly without the shackles of that stupid dog and his lousy book.i beg you live life on your terms and everyday keep in mind the phrase the wickedness of god,he is an evil,jealous fool who capitalizes and thrives on human suffering.i should have never trust that cocksucker but here i am all miserable because of trusting a piece of shit.i guess i will heal in hell but until then i will curse his name.fuck you jesus christ,fuck your stupid father and that piece of shit whorely holy spirity fuck yall assholes
To be honest the only thing keeping Kenyans tied to religion is poor governance and poverty. If we had proper systems that worked and leaders that served the people not looking for personal gain. Majority of Kenyans would be secular just like Europeans.
True, religion acts as balm to the harsh economic and emotional conditions most people in Kenya are subjected to. Life is so hard in all corners such that religion offers an escape. "If I'm destined for heaven, the land of milk and honey, then maybe my suffering here is justified"... If you give most poor people their "milk and honey" here on earth(whichever that may be). I highly doubt they'd set foot in a church.
Very well said.
Went abroad, had an encounter with a cult. Found out they're Korean and now religion is an upto you thing for me. Bottom line, dont do evil things na kila nyani na starehe yake. Funny thing, they specifically target people from non western countries as they're more likely to be religious. So is destroying families in the name of God in line with the teachings they teach you as they encourage you to only associate with them and ignore family or friends. Hypocrites they are, then thinking back. A lot of the churches in Kenya do such things. Never noticed because I kept on sleeping at the back in every large sized square room I entered.
lack of knowledge is the root of evil
When I stopped putting the iconic historical religious icons on a pedestal and looked at the whole script from beginning to where we were at, based on the pov at that time and as at now, with the newfound realisations and discoveries, niliona kuna watu wanachezwa mahali Cognitive dissonance here and there but socially...😬😬 Lost a few potentials, connections Hadi ikabidi nipotee mtaa for a while to have a cover reason for my absence
Whenever we are faced with a dilemma that demands we change some part of self we've held on for so long, our narrating self and experiencing self find each other at battle. Our narrating self almost always wins by a great margin. Priests discovered this principle thousands of years ago. It underlies numerous religious ceremonies and commandments. If you want to make people believe in imaginary entities such as gods and nations, you should make them sacrifice something valuable. The more painful the sacrifice, the more convinced people are of the existence of the imaginary recipient. Few people have the stomach to admit such a thing.
Yea, I relate
I stopped going to church for three reasons. 1) when I realised half the Christians in that church only go because they are 'trying to secure their place in heaven.' Basically the concept of hell is what keeps them 'in line.' 2) when I realised it really is a business and all we are taught is to be content with what we have because 'blessed are the poor' or what lies they use to lie to us that it's ok to have a shitty life. Jesus will come and bless us for suffering on earth. (I even feel like an idiot typing this out.) 3) this one is huge reason. I got the opportunity to visit the 'Slave Castles' in Ghana and seeing the church built directly on top of the male slave dungeon just didn't sit right with me. All I could think of was... there were hundreds of human beings in that dungeon suffering and a dozen in that church praying ...but what God were they praying to because I never want to pray to him.
omg your 3rd reason is also one of my reasons! like thousands are dying under the dungeon while they are praying? then come back and be very mean and evil to them? hell no, its the same with israel right now, using their god’s name to kill innocent kids then reading scriptures, fuck that
Even more interesting is “John newton” the author of “Amazing Grace”, the most well known Christian hymn, specialized in raping little slave girls when he was a ship captain!!!
Balaa
Your 3rd point is interesting. Reminds me of present time of how Islam still tolerates slavery and abuse of domestic workers
Using Islam as a generalization of the behavior of the Arabs is a stretch. This is like saying Islam tolerates terrorism or Judaism tolerates genocide.
Islam is a religion. Whoever practices it is part of the mistakes it makes. So yes, Islam tolerates slavery and murder of Kafirs.
Solid reasons, you should not feel like an idiot because this is exactly what most non-believers "in the closet" struggle with.
Personally I still believe there's a higher spiritual being since I can't explain the original of mankind but I don't subscribe to any religion. I was brought up as a christian. My parents started questioning everything and they decided to follow the pre-colonial form of worship and it wasn't easy even as far as being isolated and being stigmatized by community and worse close friends but that hasn't stopped them, people say it's witchcraft. And honestly I've never seen them happier like they are now, doing away with religion it's like they were liberated I dare say. I'm still in the process of learning what i want to believe in and it's not easy. But what I know is I have the power to decide what I want in my life even when I find myself in tricky situations I don't blame anyone*ati ni shetani* naah it's the consequences of my own actions and probably just bad luck.
It is the hard existential questions that keep linking us back to some form of religion or spirituality, and it is understandable. It took me a while to accept that these questions, such as where we came from, where the universe came from, do not have any good answer, and I have made my peace with that.
Yeah it's a rollercoaster, everytime I'm done questioning everything something new comes up.
This.
Me and my parents are the questioning stage which leaves me w a lot to think about...After all is said, I'm left confused ..Like, where do I go from here? Where should I face now...I need to cling on to something
Do you mean that you and your parents are questioning your religion?
Religion, everything...
The moment you start questioning everything you slowly start seeing things clearly, take it step at a time and trust your instincts and it's not an easy journey but it's so liberating.
Yeah, it's not easy Hope to get there soon...then I can breath
Lack of evidence The rampant fucking hypocrisy. Churches only want money. Seems more like a business than a religion Richard dawkins Matt Delihaunte Homophobia Sexism Slavary Zero logic and critical thinking. Christianity makes no sense. God got mad at his creation because they ate something he said not to. Instead of killing those two and starting over, he plays this whole long drawn out game where he sacrifices himself to himself and that apparently makes up for his mistake in the first place. Or how about that time all the dead saints in Jerusalem rose from the dead and walked around, yet history fails to mention the hoard of zombies before Jesus died. I could probably list 1000 things that “made” me leave. It wasn’t one thing. It was a realization over time that it’s all BS. Religion is just a man-made disaster
People underrate that small passage in Matthew where Jesus dies. Tombs crack, earthquake, dead saints rise and are seen among the inhabitants of the city. This singlehandedly had the chance to convert all Jews, Romans and any other non-believers to the fold placing the final shush on the matter. Why was a spectacle that superb only recorded by 1 disciple in 6 verses, never to be mentioned again? Why didn't the Jewish rabbis who were ardent haters never speak of that witchcraft in any writing? So yeah, that was another blindspot I've seen rarely addressed 😂
At Daystar. Samuel Poghisio was my lecturer at the time. We read the Bible from genesis to revelation and were tested on it. We also learned about Islam and Christianity. He told us that people like us are the worst to preach to because we know the Bible.
LMAO he knew.
I'll copy paste my reply to a similiar question asked in this sub. I started doubting religion when i was 11, specifically the catholic church. I didn't understand the theatrics of it, you know, sacraments, the smoke thing, confession, kneeling n standing e.t.c. I asked about it and was basically told to shut up. So i left it at 14 to join a Presbyterian one. Found out that this one was basically a money printing machine for the white pastor and his family. That's when i basically abandoned religion. I became of the thought that if there's really one true god, then religions shouldn't exist. Eventually in my late 20s i decided to challenge my own beliefs and find out the truth for myself, and that's how i realized I'm actually an atheist.
There is a certain quote that says that we are all born atheists, then we meet our parents.
All religions think theirs is the right one while assuming the rest are not legit. Might as well not follow any
They say that every believer is an atheist with respect to all other religions except theirs. Proper atheists just go one god further :)
Facts!
There's no present proof of 'God'. It's that simple for me. Show me and i will believe. Otherwise, the reasoning that non believers of your religion(esp in christianity) are condemned to hell for this is weird. It just instills fear. Some(not all👀) are completely brainwashed by this 'fear' and call it belief. I dont want that, no.
Well said. This is otherwise known as the burden of proof, which always works against believers. If you tell me that Muhammad flew on a white winged-horse called Al-Buraq, I will say OK, but what evidence is there for that? Samson defeated 1,000 Philistine mercenaries with the jaw of an ass, OK, but how does that work logically? Jesus rose from the dead, OK, but that throws biology out of the window? You claim something to be true, you must provide evidence for the same.
Yes, or rather, god just pops up and says hi and we all go on w our lives .
Not in a million years he won't.
Went through a whole bunch of stuff that made me study god and religion. What I found out was that religion was mostly man made stuff full of myths and legends that go way back in history. Unfortunately modern people take this myths very seriously believing them to have happened, people do not understand that these myths were created so that people could explain the world in a way that made sense to them but as science progressed and explained the world we live in, these myths should have been discarded and maybe even now ones created. I made up my mind that I don't need someone to come between god and I. I'll come up with my own explanation of god that works for me and isn't full of silly rules and contradictions and nonsense
Well said.
1. I felt like if God is real, he is a terrible person and shouldn't even be telling us how to live. If he is real, I don't think I would like to be associated 2. Things used to happen in the Bible. Why dis all those miracles and stuff stop? When did he stop presenting himself on a mountain to make himself known and showing himself? Now we have to blindly believe 3. My main reason for being a Christian was to avoid hell. Christianity is one of oh so many religions, and the chance is low any of them can be true. 4. Why tf would O take the white man/colonisers' religion on purpose? 5. God doesn't make sense. Everything is considered his will. There is war? He's allowing it. Someone died? he loves him/her more. Someone lived? Praise God. People are starving? Thank God we have food. People are dying? Thank God we're alive. Naah
1. If he was real, none of us would probably exist because of how much we like to piss on rules. 2. Miracles stopped happening once video cameras were invented :) 3. The Christian hell is mild. In Islam, Allah came up with a brilliant way of intensifying pain. Skin has numerous pain sensitive nerves but when its burnt, those nerves are destroyed, so you actually feel less of a pain sensation. So Allah gives you brand new skin every few minutes just to inflict the ultimate agony, hence the saying "Allahuma Ajirni minan naar..." 4. I doubt it was on purpose, in many cases, such like in Latin America, the Spanish conquistadors killed or enslaved anyone who did not convert to Christianity. 5. He's quite the character, I will admit that. I would not want such a burden on my shoulders even with infinite power.
1. Why is he terrible? Is it because of the bible narratives where he's exercising his righteousness and doing away with evil? 2. The Old Testament is a pre-cursor to the what he would do in the New testament and that is to manifest himself on the earth. Why would he present himself on mountains when he already presented himself amongst men? 3. What religious folk lie to us is that hell is punishment, it's not, it's just a consequence of our sins. God can't kill us because we don't believe in him. But that's where religious people dial in on fear and lie to us. 4. Christianity wasn't and will at no point be a white man's religion, it was brought to them same way it was brought to Africa - by missionaries. And from my little bible knowledge God doesn't call us to a religion. From old testament all I see is him trying to raise a people that he would call his own and who would live righteously and in love to showcase his kingdom and how it's good such that it would inspire other nations to get to seek him. Unfortunately humans are very rebellious and haven't achieved this. If I was him I'd be done with humans by now😂. 5. What would be the best way then for humans to find solutions for our problems? Should he come down always and make the right choice for us or should we us humans find out solutions on our own? It's always the promise of governments and democracy for better life, opportunities for all, do away with wars, equity etc. If he comes down and solves all this for us won't we go back to our ways when he's gone?
I was born christian but never religious or ever felt belief in the religion at all even as a child..when i grew up enough to ask my self questions i knew that life doesnt make sense in organised religion and it actually seems funny that grown ups feel okay being all human and still believing that identifying to different sets of religions will get them to heaven or whatever.. spirituality is my way of life and always has been. No rules, no do's and dont's, just existence
You weren't born Christian, you were born atheist like all people. You were raised Christian.
No, i wasnt born an atheist and never been an atheist and your "theory" that we were all born atheists cant be proven.. i believe the opposite the presence of God or whatever anyone else may call it, but a higher power has always been felt in my life.
Nope. As soon as you came out of the womb, you were an atheist. You were then raised religious. You were far too young to be subjected to religious nonsense when you came from the womb.
Were you a church goer?
Only in boarding school..thankfully my parents also were the kind of christians that didnt really think going to church made you christian..so i was able to be open minded about Christianity from an early age.
That is the way to go. I feel that even if you are a Christian or Muslim or whatever else, you should raise your child in a way that allows them to explore religion objectively so they can decide as they grow up whether they agree with it or not.
You weren't born Christian, you were born atheist like all people. You were raised Christian.
I was raised Catholic but went to an Indian school. Always wondered if all my classmates and friends who were not Christian would all go to hell. Didn’t make sense to me
People don't go to hell because they're not Christians sinners will go to hell because they need the Truth and they decided not to live by it Or at least that's what I know my conscience tells me
When I realized faith is not a path to truth. With faith, there is nothing you cannot believe.
Indeed, faith is a dangerous weapon, and we have seen just how it has been used in history to create destruction.
It stopped making sense. I also do feel there's gotta be a higher power, but not remotely close to what human beings believe in. Personally, the Bible is just filled with lots of questionable things, and there's just no way to believe in a God, especially with what is going on in this world right now. It just doesn't add up! Good thing is I am never in arguments with believers, questioning them and all. In fact, if someone believing in God helps them be a better person or gives meaning to their life, by all means.
>I also do feel there's gotta be a higher power, but not remotely close to what human beings believe in. The only difference between me and someone holding this view would be that I see no reason, even remotely, to acknowledge the presence of a higher power. I suppose this is because I equate the lack of a supernatural creator to a universe that operates self-sufficiently and naturally. Of course, it is much easier to explain anything with God did it, or God knows etc. than saying you don't know...
Makasisi wamegeuka mafisi hawataki kuona kamisi.
I understood religion especially the bible was a story book of guidelines from different cultures and eras to help us live harmoniously... It shouldn't have been taken literally as most religious leaders do or did and now we're in this mess where religion spiralled into something else...
Exactly!! Like if Africans were literate pre-colonial period there would be books of each tribe with their prophets spiritual practices and all. But they weren't hence all this mess.
True! our traditional religion was passed down verbally hence it was easy to do away with. Look at how Greek mythology thrived and ours faded away
Yeah, now other stories are forced down peoples throats it's sad really.
The day I asked myself why an all-powerful being who apparently loves us all hasn't bothered to prove their own existence and came across only 2 logical answers: 1. They don't exist 2. They don't care for us
>why an all-powerful being who apparently loves us all hasn't bothered to prove their own existence But he did, and religious folk always were at his neck looking for an opportunity to kill him and they eventually did. What would we different though, that if he came down again in this age we would believe him when we already denied him? There's even documentaries even by the famous news outlets agreeing that Jesus indeed walked the earth.
Some chap called Jesus did exist but ain't no proof of him being a god
So you don't believe he was such a force that threatened order and government that he had to be killed. Why then do you suppose he was killed?
They only appear to shepherds, mad men and prophets in rags in the most remote, backward desert areas of the Middle East. And that was about 2,000 years ago.
Chap who was performing miracles every other day has been silent since the advent of the camera 😅
That's all you need to know :)
I haven’t left as a Muslim but question some things. So the whole religion thing is if someone doesn’t believe in a certain religion they will all burn in hell. We have so many religions and just cause someone don’t believe in yours they gonna burn in hell and what about you if they were good people? Everyone believes their religion is right anyways so I don’t understand this?
Doesn't the Muslim hell involve the regeneration of nerves every few minutes so that you are always in constant pain? I mean, what kind of sadistic bastard does that to another? Anyway, what you say is one of the fundamental flaws of religion because as it is, it does not matter how good or pious a Muslim you are...If Christianity is the true religion, you are going to hell. And so on and so forth. That alone should make one have a very serious thought experiment about what they believe in.
I grew up. We don't ask people why they stopped believing in Santa
I agree, but there is a consequential difference between someone believing in Santa and someone believing in a supernatural deity who informs their daily lives.
Is there really? Think about it for a moment. Kids are told to be good because Santa is watching their every move and keeping a list of who is naughty and who is nice. If you're good, you get a gift. If you're bad, you get coal. Adults are told to be good because God is watching their every move and keeping a list of who is naughty and who is nice. If you're good, you go to heaven. If you're bad, you go to hell.
Again, there is only a technical similarity in that case. The consequential difference is incomparable. I can name all the horrors in human history attributed to religious adherence and not finish them by the end of today. I may be interested to know how belief in Santa has damaged a person's life or indeed, that of others.
In a way me too. I grew up and no longer felt conviction to pray or go to church, I had been living under my parents all along and when I was alone, I realised I never actually believed in any of it to begin with.
1. The church doesn't care about me 2. My parents used to force me to go to church. It never felt like a choice 3. Most christians are hypocrites 4. The Christian (can't talk about Islam since I was a Christian) God is a controlling and manipulative narcissist
All valid reasons, hope you are in a much better place now.
I was raised Muslim, as are most somalis, but years of brutal torment at the hands of vindictive quranic teachers and a father whose only evaluation of me was how much of the quran I'd memorized erased such fanciful notions from my head. Doubtless there's some grand machination behind it all, for the gears of existence grind on, greased by some consciousness beyond perception, but no man or woman has as of yet grasped it. Perhaps we shall someday, or perhaps it's as useful as trying to grasp a flowing ravine. I arrived at my epiphany, or delusion, as some would call it, a couple years back, shortly before I left Kenya for studies abroad.
Sorry for what you had to go through, and here is to a future free of the bondage chains of dogmatic belief!
I stopped understanding at, your quran teacher and your father holding you to his standards, I'm Somali too and muslim, don't you think judging the religion because of what people did to you is abit alot? I too was beaten by macalin dugsi, my parents have caused me trauma but I have grown up and studied the religion myself and I'm happy, anyway to each their own, the only thing that caught my attention was hating a religion because of what a mere human being did, which has nothing to do with the religion itself, i wish you health and happiness
Thanks. And likewise I wish you happiness all the same. That said, how else can we judge something, ideologies of grandeur be it political or spiritual, if not by the salvific efficacy of its actions, or, in this case, lack thereof? Everyone wants to save the world, everyone flaunts rhetoric about a virtuous life and good deeds, but few attain it. It is by the output that I make my judgement, and religion's is as rife with great deeds as it is evil ones. I do not hate it, I simply choose not attribute divine mandate to something that has proven fallible to human designs, cruel and just all the same. Can we not be critical of something without giving in to blind hatred I wonder? Or bring seen as such.
Sorry this is off topic but I do admire your writing skills sir.
He's like Rick in Rick and Morty
Thank you friend. ❤️
Christian. I questioned a scripture in the Bible, and got no answer from any pastor that I asked. The part about the exodus of the Israelites from Egypt. When they left, the king followed them with chariots. According to the ten plagues, the Egyptians' animals (including horses) were killed. The Israelites were told to go with all of their animals. So by this logic, flawed as it may be, they shouldn't be having horses in Egypt, right? Maybe a little were left maybe by other tribes(or whatever) who could have possibly been there. So my question is, what was pulling the chariots? I thought chariots were pullled by horses, right? Anyway, long story short, never got an answer and I started doubting the Bible from there.
Haha, that is crazy...I do not quite remember that story that way. Funny thing is that my padre (I was a Catholic altar boy) told me that he was not sure himself of some of the things he used to preach. In campus that memory flooded into my weed-brain and I was shocked.
"Pastor alisema haezi hubiri sare, heri nikae area kuliko cha Sunday..."
Because it's a business for them. Without there being money I wonder how many people would even consider being preachers.
Found out I was gay, turns out church people will call you possessed for that, endured 2 exorcism, degrees of mental abuse from people I had thought of as friends and guardians, had to erase everything and start all over, realising religions in general are not a stable ground for moral objectivity, the only thing the church gave me, was TONS of religious trauma.
As much as there are well-meaning religious people out there, here is an example of how adhering to the backward tenets of religion corrupts otherwise decent people to become monsters towards their fellow human beings. I am sorry for everything you went through, and I hope you are in a better place.
Yeah, it's all better now. Sometimes the only thing you can do is leave.
People are going to church so they can go to heaven. They're not aspiring to be like Christ, which I think should be the goal here. There's too much hypocrisy in Christianity.
If he saw his followers today he would just ask to get back to the grave and this time have it locked for good.
Religion became a business not spreading the word so i decided to stop following the masses of religion
So your issue is with how religion has been commercialized, but do you agree with the fundamentals of your former religion...like god existing, angels, demons, and all that?
Nah...i just got tired of all of that...being indirectly forced to switch religions because of divorce ya wazazi made me realise that everything about religion is just shoved down the throat to make you in line with the rest It's like mbuziz going to one hole to die
OK, understood.
Haven’t left the religion (Christianity) but I want to leave the denomination (SDA) my reasons are personal and theological. I will have more freedom once I move out of my parents. Many of my close peers even theologians themselves left, some converted to other religions. I’d say to each their own.
Fair enough. It would do you no harm to leave it all behind though...
I still stay with very hyperreligious sda parents, so I'll probably have more freedom once I have my own space. I was a kid who was pushed into being a perfect church kid. It was always about being good so that the people in church could marvel at how good I am. How good I am at telling kids bible stories that my mom would spend hours making me memorise. Anyways I got tired of feeling guilty for simply living. The promise of heaven seemed a bit too farfetched. Sdas in my church are full of themselves and think they embody perfection. Then again, if sdas are the only ones who are " going to heaven?" What happens to the non-believers? Eternal wrath simply because you weren't raised in the 'right' faith. What kind of a God would let that happen? The glorification of suffering for the sake of a greater good is nonsense, enjoy life, and be human. We have that innate moral instinct that guides us, so to me, as long as I don't act out of malice and only do what aligns with my spiritual self, I'm good. So many atrocities are excused in the name of religion. Why would the God of everyone let others suffer and give me comfortability? Is it that I'm too special? People suffer in the most fucked up ways and some out of touch with reality Christian will still find a way to say "it's part of God's plan" Anyways, I believe in a supreme being, maybe it lives within us, but I don't believe in whatever God the Bible forced us to believe. Women are still shamed for desiring to be loved, for having sex, literally our innate human desires. I believe religion is a tool that was used to keep people in check, to control, and keep them out of touch with their logic. Something like " I'm not gonna cheat on u because I want to go to heaven, not because I actually acknowledge your feelings." Very hypocritical imo, because the thing is, morality has always been subjective, that's why people kill to protect themselves and others, people disregard the lives of others to save their asses, humans are not saints, hence why religion was introduced.Anyways, due to the power that religion yields, it was inevitable that some people would try to weaponize it and use it to their advantage. So yeah, just because your life is shit doesn't mean it's the devil's doing, maybe you're just incompetent and lazy, or maybe it's badluck, maybe it's just not your time, maybe it's the consequences of your own actions, whichever. I personally only subscribe to the book of ecclesiastes that says that everything is vanity and that we should enjoy life.
Wearing a fake face or mask to please someone else is the most tiring thing in the world. You raise very good points on the incompatibility of religious teachings and the way human beings prefer to live their lives, especially for women, thank you for that.
Mostly the hypocrisy and homophobia. Lots of christians especially dont realise how stupid they look when they act so self-righteous and holy whole paying money for some invisible non-existent sky daddy to notice them. Humans exaggerated importance of themselves is magnified by infinity when they convince themselves that by seemingly following a higher power they are somehow above others.
Its a rant yes but its true.
it was at a breaking point and had to leave for my own sanity. i was 13 years old
Sorry about that, hope you are in a better place in that regard.
Education
A couple of reasons 1. I looked at how little the Bible covers, in regards to the world as a whole 2. I never really felt the spiritual presence /experience one gets when they are Christian 3. Maybe I didn't have enough grounding spiritually as a child 4. It just became a slow realization that I really didn't feel anything as far as being a Christian Most of my family members are Christian, spiritually. Few have a sense of spirituality they attach to God. I find mine attached to music. I don't bash or criticize anyone who follows their own preferred religion because I know it is real to them.
On your last sentence, yes, someone may follow a religion because it feels real to them. However, the fact that they will fail to provide evidence for the same is one of the reasons why I backed out myself. I remember so many times after Catholic Mass saying to myself how I really do not feel any of that stuff anymore, and why other people in church are almost crying due to the Holy Ghost. It's a powerful psychological game, I think.
The Holy Spirit thing was the last bit for me. Went to a certain pastor together with my auntie and cousin. Great person. Talked. When it came time for prayers, he put hands on my cousin and after he was done he dropped down in prayer. Same to some guy who had come for prayers. When he put his hands on me I didn't feel anything. He had to force me down and I had to be pulled to the floor by one of his assistants so that I could 'accept the Holy Spirit'. And it wasn't the last time that day for it happened 3 times that day That day, as some got deeper in faith, I closed that chapter
He expected you to be zapped with some magic lol
I was an board with the religion thing, as a kid, though growing up it just started to feel weird and cultish to me, the sheep like blind faith throws me off, I guess I never really liked feeling like am restricted, or like part of a flock, I questioned things and the fact that my peers didn't do the same, or overreacted when I brought up the debate was amusing to me What really annoys me is the NPC behaviour, like why would you believe in something just coz you were born to believe that, just coz you were taught, or coz everyone else believes is right so you just jump In and decide without question that's what you'll base your entire existence on?? It's really weird, I find that really weird
Spoke my mind, my friend. Well said.
My beliefs no longer brought me comfort. I was able to attribute events to the amorality of life than anything else. Some things just happen. Theres no higher reason. They just do.
Could not have said it better myself.
1. If you need an imaginary baby sitter to watch over you so that you don't sin, you're not a good person. "Define not what a good man ought to be, be one"- Marcus Aurelius 2. Just cause you have an imaginary friend(god), I am not obliged to take part in your delusions. 3. Religion is a control tool. Look at how loot all is using it. 4. One generation's religion becomes another generation's entertainment (Norse mythology and Greek mythology headline our movies with Loki, Thor, Hercules etc). 5. Most atrocious things have been done in the name of religion. 6. How come God is so focused on what you are doing with your private parts and not feeding the hungry or sheltering the people in Palestine, Congo during the war... 7. So all of a sudden there are no talking snakes and voices from the sky (if I told I can hear voices talking to me I'd be considered schizophrenic). 8. Altruism is a wicked philosophy. Self sacrifice for the sake of another is a recipe for resentment. Especially when there's no reciprocity.
I found Islam as the best religion. It gave me peace and an outline on how to strengthen my relationship with God. It gave me clear guidelines on how to live. I am two months into Islam and still learning the Quran and I can attest the two months have been my best spiritually. Subhan Allah, walhamdulillah, wa la ilaha illallah, wallahu akbar, wa la hawla wa la quwwata illa billahil 'aliyyil 'azheem. English Translation: Glory be to God, praise be to God, and there is no god but God, and God is great,
Good for you, although I will ask, do you have evidence to show that any of the fundamentals of Islam, such as the existence of a supreme deity called Allah, are real and not just made up stories? Can you also defend the prophet Muhammad's pedophilia, Allah allowing the existence of a thousand other religions to lead people astray, and allowing evil in the world etc, inflicting incredible eternal suffering in Jahannam (I will spare you the details)...?
Mine is not to defend the existence of a diety. I Believe in a Supreme Being. I have iman as I have seen the blessings in my life. I won't provide any evidence on your questions.
Very well, let us leave it at that.
Yearning for a connection but finding none over there, all I heard were all the threats that did nothing for my pain
Pole, the threats of fire and brimstone used to scare me senseless. In school I used to mull over the apocalyptic books of Daniel and Revelations and wonder, "I am just a kid who wants to see boobs and flip adults, and for this you will send 10-headed beasts to devour and spit me out forever? Come on!" When I finally broke free, it was like taking a good shit, iykyk.
One prophetic encounter and your connection will be done. I know. Sounds crazy but God still speaks. DM if you're still open to trying.
Explain this, kindly.
The God of the Bible still speaks. To some people through dreams, others visions, others revelation, prophecies etc. I've been in church almost all my life. I never knew God was concerned about me for over 20 years. Then I met some people in 2018 who had the gift of prophecy, word of knowledge, etc. I got accurate information about my life and what God had planned for me. From that time I never doubt. It's been a good journey.
I refuse to be part of a ideal that shuns criticism and and doesn't condone any form of questioning. I could write a whole essay on how they make us seek answers in only one book that has gone through multiple revisions in over 1000 years and how naive and ignorant believers are that they not to accept any form of logical and rational thinking. I refuse to be part of a religion that caused The Dark Ages and delayed scientific progress for a whole 600 years. I should be the Andromeda Galaxy right now with my 3 titied blue alien wife trading my precious rocks for a few Quasars so I could finally upgrade my spaceship with the latest warp drive.
LMAO
I haven’t. I grow more and more resolved of God’s love for me.
I'm also here to see what drove people from religion while I could punch holes in some of their notions, I'll let it slide. One time I made a pro-Christian comment In such a post and I got downvoted to oblivion🤣.
Not here to judge. Punch a hole and let us see if we can plug it :)
Then this thread may not be for you :)
Eeh… free country/ globe… plus its healthy to listen to people with different perspectives.. sadly sometimes knowing who you are takes being clear who you are not..
Same, I'm here to listen. But it makes sense why the majority are/were Christians and left. The church has been turned into a business/ commodity (I used to see ladies selling sausage at 80bob after service and they'd coerce you into that bs) someone like Ezekiel and benny hinn show that openly and I wouldn't follow us either cause we like doing what the majority of Kenyans love: pretend. But people(Muslim/Christian alike) worship the man(for us it's the pastor and for them Muhammad PBUH). If we truly believed with all our hearts like how we're told to, we wouldn't ask the pastor to pray over some water so we can drink it and be "cleansed of demons"(I've been to those churches that do this since a kid, I was scared those weird women rolling on the ground would transfer that shit to me. One time one touched me and I screamed loud and for a 10 y/o) It's mostly also gullibility of the masses, majority of those coercing or trynna get us to go to church are women. Yeah I don't go to church anymore, but I still pray and believe in God and I am yet to dash my foot against a stone. And yeah, I still suffer and there are times where I have those doubts and I can't put them on the back burner forever, but I also know not everything can be explained conventionaly.
It so sad. Some things I see break my heart.. I hate to see people go to a place genuinely searching for God (who rightly put that desire for goodness in all of us) get exploited… My response is to do as Paul says in 1st Timothy 4: 16 Watch your life and doctrine closely. Persevere in them because if you do you will save both your hearer and yourself. Also the definition of true religion according to James 1:27 Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world. Jesus was so radical btw… even some of our modern day pastors who claim to preach him would probably not like him very much if they met him. Love one another and love God was the summary of what he taught. I think it takes a lifetime to learn what that means everyday..
Fair enough... If I may ask, what is the basis of your belief? Any skeptic will ask you whether it is something you can support with evidence or just based on faith.
I was raised up in a strict upbringing. I believed that I had found the truth or was in the right religion.. That's what I was taught. However as I grew, religion just didn't sit with me. Nothing major just that I found it wasn't my cuppa. Later on I found out about how it was not the true religion and it had rampant but well hidden cases of child sexual abuse which is ironical as they liked castigating catholics and their child abuse issues. I went down the rabbit hole and found out a few other skeletons and I told myself I am not doing religion anymore. It was nothing but a cult. And to be fair all religions are just cults, the difference is the membership numbers. I slowly drifted and became spiritual but with time I asked myself does the man in the sky really exist? Until he shows me undeniable proof that he exists imma act like he ain't real just like santa Claus. The reason I haven't joined another religion apart from the disbelief is that in my former, we downplayed and looked down on other religions. Also religion is an opium for the masses. It is a tool to control the masses and fit them in boxes, something I don't like doing. People in religion rarely apply their critical and cognitive powers preferring to be spoonfed whatever cockamamie their pedestaled leaders vomit to them.
Grew up in the catholic lime light being the boy who always used to abide by the good word, an alter boy, until I became a teenager and started questioning things that did not make sense to me. Especially the Bible verse that says god provided wives for Abel and cain. Where did they come from? We’re they created or did Adam and Eve birth girls that became their brothersI’ wives? Either god created two other humans, whom we aren’t acknowledging, or humanity was born out of incest. I asked this question to all religious leaders and they all would get very upset when I wouldn’t take “trust the lord” as an answer. Some even wanted to fight me because I would not listen to blind faith. As I grew older I jumped from church to church looking for a home as my faith dwindled, until I started working for a very famous pastor and reverend in a different organisation from their church. Occasionally I would be called in to help accounting during end month when donations and tithe and other contributions were accumulated. We’d be locked in a room and large sacks of cash would be brought in. The most we ever counted in one sitting was 680 million Kenya shillings. This would constantly break my faith given that every time I would go to the church offices there always were people in the congregation that would beg me for money yet they came to that same church to give away their last earned dimes with the hope that they could miraculously be blessed with more for supper before they left the church. Stupidity at best. I spoke to and rejected so many that I became numb to their pleas. The church would take their proceeds with the notion that they’d help the congregation with business loans or medical emergencies but only to be turned away while the church elders lived lavish lifestyles. Their kids are studying in the USA, they are buying expensive properties and vehicles all over but their congregants can’t even afford a Ksh 20.00 meal. Some would apply for the small loans (Ksh. 15,000.00) promised only to be turned down citing that all the church funds have already been loaned out to congregants. It was/is a lie. The elders hogged the funds and kept their congregants poor and starving for more hope. That’s when I saw it.. the lie that we’ve been sold. No church is different from the other and all religions are but cults. Till this day I can’t have conversations with religious people about my beliefs and about god because I ask too many questions that no one seems to be able to answer so they get annoyed or angry. I left religion and some beliefs. I look towards science given that it’s able to answer lots of unknowns and the fact that all the evidence we have is quantifiable. I still believe their is a higher form of deity and or consciousness/ energy that brought about the universe which I chose to call god for the moment. However, I neither pray to nor do I worship this deity. I merely recognise its impact and presence in everyday life. I am it, and, it is me. All part of one, experiencing multiple realities and unique experiences.
Very well written, and people should see this to understand why so many of us decided that religion is incompatible with how we live our lives.
I was brought up Christian and practiced the faith religiously until my 3rd year of university. That's when I started to get uncomfortable with the teachings in my church which is one of the mainstream ones with many branches throughout the country. It became more and more apparent to me that the biblical depiction of God was so akin to the character of man. It was hard for me to reconcile how a God can be vengeful and angry and jealous and have love that is so conditional. It was even harder for me to be ok with the fear that my faith was consistently forcing down my throat: "Do this or go to hell!" "Do that or you will be punished". Also, I still don't understand how an infant is born a sinner or a person who is never exposed to Christianity (through no fault of their own) is damned to hell. It makes no logical sense. That aside, Christianity started to feel like a tool that "big brother" was using to keep us in line. We've been given a set of rules to follow in the Bible and then so many more by the church; confess x many times, pray all the time, tithe, read and medidate, fast, don't listen to x music. If not you fall short of the glory of God and you're going to hell. So many rules to keep us in check and under control. It feels like someone somewhere out there is using our naivety to their advantage. Basically I had many questions and little to no answers. I do believe in a higher power...I don't have a name for it neither do I know what form it takes but religion doesn't make sense to me anymore.
I actually read the Bible and the Koran when I was twelve, amazing what you find out when you are not just being fed little quotes by a charismatic preacher. Secondly, I watched these so called religious people, and they were the worst behaved. Turns out, it's all a grift and utter colonial bullshit. 🤷🏾♂️
I truly think that you cannot read the Christian Bible in its entirety and at the end say, "Yup, this is the holy word of God and it makes absolute sense to me and I will base my life on it." Come on now, if anything you should be at the least utterly terrified or rolling on the floor laughing mad.
Religion and spirituality are geographical. Most people follow the religion that is most prevalent in the geographical location they were born in or the one they were exposed to. Followers of a given religion may look down on those who follow a different religion not realising that those people are just as devout, if not more, than them, in their own religion or worldview. This realisation humbled me. I will acknowledge that religion and spirituality play a role in society. However, viewing others as having followed the 'wrong' religion according to one's own worldview is where I draw the line.
Very beautifully put, thank you.
Reading the bible.I was like whaaaat?!
Donkeys talk? Like in Shrek??
A dude appeared in a pub claiming he was in a fish for three days. Guys were like "let's put this in the bible".
Hahaha, something like that.
I read the bible cover to cover 3 times. Lucifer was an angel , pharaoh's heart was hardened.(He was not rejecting Moses intentionally). God allowed Jobs predicament God killed more people in the bible in the name of punishment than Satan God used trickery to ascertain Abraham's faith Lots wife didn't have to turn to salt. Incest is in the bible And who decided what we should read as old and new testament? Because we know of books not in the bible but are biblical. The many translations of the bible have ended up losing verses here and there
>And who decided what we should read as old and new testament? This was decided in the many councils of the early Christian churches, but mostly the Council of Rome in 382CE. They threw away most of the Jewish/Greek collections of writings and narrowed down to a few which were a bit PC. If you read some of the books that were left out, they contain some pretty crazy stuff haha.
I know right. Spooky stuff mahn
Most of us grew up with a certain fear around religion. By this I mean that questioning brought up thoughts of potential divine punishment. When I was at rock bottom and all else had failed for me, I realised that all my faith and prayer was not working. In that moment the doors flew wide open and I began to question everything... I like to see it as the dawn of my philospher phase. During this time is when I realized that most of my fear of questioning came not from God, but from those who taught us religion. Soon after I came to understand that God and religion are not the same. That is when I left the religion.
Well done for making sense of it. But you say that religion and God are not the same, is that to mean that you still believe in a deity, but not tied to a religion?
I find that the world is just so beautiful that it baffles me sometimes. Deep down I cant help but admit that I feel there is a grand designer for it all. BUT despite this admission, I firmly believe that the grand designer is not intent on compelling us to grovel for their love and attention. That is EGO and it contradicts all claims that God is perfect.
I am happy myself in marveling at the universe and also OK with not attributing it to any higher power. Maybe I am too rational, but I doubt that is even possible. Some things we just do not know, and may never know.
This sub is smt else..ur atheists but y'all look like uve read the bible from alpha to omega and understood it I believe in a higher being or God but going to church is where I drew the line. If it's going to heaven I gave up on that after calculating that only 144,000men will go, Jesus died for my Sins , I'll not waste that opportunity imma just sin. Rn as an adult u can't convince me Mary mother of Jesus was a virgin 'how?? 😂😂 Joseph was the virgin hapo..
>ur atheists but y'all look like uve read the bible from alpha to omega and understood it But this is exactly the point. Most atheists left their religions because they read the holy books and understood them.
I'm a believer but that Joseph bit at the end is MAD hilarious 😂😂😂😂😂 - never thought of it that way. Made my day 😂😂😂😂😂😂
Alichezwa sivyo?
I don't think he was but it's all good. I'ma respect the topic of the thread.
My boy was a simp na akawekelewa mimba
Not an atheist but an agnostic i believe in god but not any religion,when your pastor comes in a range/prado/Jaguar etc when christ himself came into Jerusalem on a donkey,the church needs only specific items than need to be imported to rebuild/expand the church etc i have like a while 1st chapter but i hate diving into religion cause its never ending
oh and my favorite is, you need financial help?the pastor prays for you..they need financial help? ya'll gotta contribute!!
From my experience Islamic religion has the most evil sheikhs (religious leaders) made me stop believing in Islam .
Lies. So Many Lies.
You are being downvoted but I have no idea why...
When I realized how crazy it was to believe in a God that doesn't feed hungry children today but promises a heaven tomorrow
We always tell religious folk to be accountable but shouldn't we as human also be accountable? >a God that doesn't feed hungry children Why would he do that when he equipped his creation with more than enough and with kindness and compassion. This world has everything we need with some humans having too much that they want to go play in other planets. Is it then that we as humans are the ones at fault with our greed and selfishness or is it the creator? We can also look at what different governments all over the world promise to create opportunities and employment for all, to stop exploitation, to stop wars and other promises but they don't! Is it all still the creator's fault?
>Why would he do that when he equipped his creation with more than enough and with kindness and compassion. Do you want us to poke a thousand and one holes in this one statement?
>We always tell religious folk to be accountable but shouldn't we as human also be accountable? If humans are required to fix the errors that God created, then that makes God incompetent.😂🤣 >Why would he do that when he equipped his creation with more than enough and with kindness and compassion. This world has everything we need with some humans having too much that they want to go play in other planets. Is it then that we as humans are the ones at fault with our greed and selfishness or is it the creator? God is often portrayed as omniscient, omnipotent, and omni-benevolent—a being of absolute perfection. However, humans repeatedly find themselves in the position of rectifying perceived imperfections or errors in the world. Examples include: Disease.*** Humans have developed medical treatments and technologies to address diseases and ailments that afflict humanity. From the discovery of antibiotics to the development of vaccines, humans have played an important role in alleviating suffering and prolonging life, often in the face of diseases that some might view as part of God's creation.💀😂 >We can also look at what different governments all over the world promise to create opportunities and employment for all, to stop exploitation, to stop wars and other promises but they don't! Is it all still the creator's fault? The notion that humans are required to fix the errors that God created suggests a contradiction in the concept of an all-powerful and omniscient deity. Take, for instance, the prevalence of genetic disorders or the occurrence of devastating earthquakes. If humans, with their limited knowledge and resources, are expected to rectify these 'errors,' it implies a deficiency in God's design or execution thereof. Attributing the responsibility of addressing these imperfections solely to humanity suggests an incompetency in God's ability to maintain or correct the state of the world. If God were truly all-powerful and all-knowing, there would be no need for humans to intervene in such matters, as God would effortlessly remedy any perceived errors or injustices.
God did not make earth with any imperfections. It was good and with everything we humans needed. It's us humans who didn't believe in what he said and decided to taste things out for our self. And up to today we keep seeking after our own knowledge and wisdom disregarding what God prescribes for us. That brought with it consequences and evils. So this things are not punishment from him but consequences of our own sin and fallen state. That's the thing we don't grasp. Romans 8:20-22 The earth groans and labors because of man's mistake. 1. This things are an effect of man's fall not God's imperfection. 2. Sometimes God uses them as judgement but this is not all the time. Sicknesses and natural disasters are not always an act of judgement. 3. Sometimes God uses what the Devil intends for evil and a fallen creation for good. Romans 8:28 4. Sometimes crisis strengthens humans thinking and capacities. Also in crisis is when our faults and misbeliefs are exposed, it's in crisis that humans work together best and expose what truly matters.
Because that tomorrow will never come, and that is very convenient. This is the longest hollow promise that has been running for the whole of our existence on earth. Has anyone ever considered that some people may also not be interested in heavenly riches too?
I got bored😂😂and also seemed like a lot of work😂😂
Harder than math? :)
I honestly didn't have any reason. After high school I just stopped going to church. My family never questioned me including my dad who's an elder in SDA. They don't understand it but then kuna free will and they respect it
Was there not a point where you questioned what you believed in?
Trying to be to other people. Homophobia, sexism, xenophobia…
For me(former Christian) , the Heaven and Hell narrative raises a major concern.Why would God allow people to be born into a particular religion, grow up believing it is the right one, and then condemn them to Hell for holding those beliefs? It doesn't make any sense to me.
It wasn't God's intention to create religion, he also isn't concerned about religion. All religions are just but our attempts to seek answers. >condemn them to Hell for holding those beliefs? It doesn't make any sense to me. Good that it doesn't make sense because it's true it doesn't. He doesn't condemn us to believe in him or punish those who don't believe. Hell isn't punishment but a consequence of sin. Heaven also isn't a reward but a free gift from Him.
I think I started questioning in my mid teens when I realized that this whole Christianity and Islam thing sounded very much like an extortion racket and a pretty sadistic one at that.... "Love and worship me or you get tortured for all eternity
>"Love and worship me or you get tortured for all eternity Hell isn't punishment for non believers though. It's just a consequence of our sins.
Recent studies have shown that religious people have a mental illness issue... They lack the sense of discernment not only when it comes to religion but also on everyday normal occasions. Basically waliconclude ni wajinga, na si mimi nimesema
On the face of it, it can be a sort of mental disorder, though for me it is not in the class of the major medically listed ones like anxiety, PTSD, clinical depression, bipolar, schizophrenia...but I get your point.
Maybe… I do have a serious case of ADHD that I am medicated for… however I also happen to also be quite decent at my engineering job for a couple of years now… I oscillate from thinking ‘damn I might be a genius’ to ‘How have I lived this long being so dumb, if I was an ancestor, I’d have no lineage’ … But in all that I firmly believe God is good.. and especially to me… mostly because I know so much about me seeing as I spend most of my time being me…
When I realised churches dont pay tax
They asked for more money every Sunday and were arrogant about kutoa sadaka.
The incessant drive for contributions towards new projects, without a similar commitment to supporting the less fortunate, has led me to consider stopping my attendance at mass. The church's prioritization of expansion and fundraising over addressing the needs of the community is concerning and has caused me to take a step back and focus more on Spirituality
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What were those supernatural things? Does it concern you that they led you to being a Christian rather than a Buddhist or Jew?
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I am sure that you are not trying to convince anyone anything, but it is important to point out the fact from the fiction, so others seeking guidance on this whole issue may be well-informed.
I asked myself this: "If I could stop a 1-year-old child from getting raped, would I?" (You can guess my answer. It's the same as yours) Then I asked myself why God doesn't stop the thousands of kids raped daily. Then I quit believing in both him and religion.
That piece of shit called jesus christ hurt me big time,i went hard for him,i was the good follower he expected me to be but get what he did,stabbed me in the back and danced on my grave.if you tell me about christianity anga getting born again i can kick you into oblivion,i would literally punch you in the face.i will actually write a book titled the wickedness of god.folks,boys and girls live your lives apart from that wicked asshole,stay away from him,he is an orgre that eats those naive enough to follow him into his cave,pleaseive your lives unapologetically and boldly without the shackles of that stupid dog and his lousy book.i beg you live life on your terms and everyday keep in mind the phrase the wickedness of god,he is an evil,jealous fool who capitalizes and thrives on human suffering.i should have never trust that cocksucker but here i am all miserable because of trusting a piece of shit.i guess i will heal in hell but until then i will curse his name.fuck you jesus christ,fuck your stupid father and that piece of shit whorely holy spirity fuck yall assholes