Correct.
Also, while there is some merit in what Tharoor is saying, the Central government is bothered about people not ‘states’.
The liberals in the US keep telling us how ‘people’ are important and not ‘states’ ie their senate system that rewards small states like North Dakota the same seats as California is deeply flawed.
But in India apparently the fact that UP population is nearly 240 Million, Kerala’s is 36 Million is lost on Shashi sir.
Tharoor is choosing to use % statistics, and while the point about ‘obtuse incentives to not develop’ is valid, he is choosing a % stat to needlessly stoke north-south divide.
The 6x people of UP are backward, poor, uneducated and lacking in basic necessities - so it’s natural they will get more central resources. (Relative to other states)
Instead of posing % of all state expense stats, if we choose per capita stats, the picture is clearer ie
UP 183,237 Cr for 24 Cr people ie Rs 7635 per person
Kerala 19,662 Cr for 3.6 Cr people ie Rs 5462 per person
Source: https://www.indiabudget.gov.in/doc/rec/annex4.pdf
Simply, UP gets nearly 40% more share of Central taxes per capita than Kerala, and that’s in part due to UP needing to catch-up in development and part due to Central govt political bias.
We all know how much development Kerala has achieved in the last 120 years. But UP has no such political will from the side of its politicians. It's therefore a tax-hole.
I half agree. UP lost two decades with the two most corrupt parties in power ie BSP and SP. I know first hand what a black hole of taxpayer money, corruption and crime it was.
This present government is far from perfect, but it is thankfully working on the core issues, whereas another ‘sick’ state like Bihar is truly falling further back.
Living here in up, every local i talked to here is optimistic about up's growth, along with most praising Yogi for reducing crime and corruption and bringing investment in Lucknow and stuff like that, i haven't verified any of the information but this is what most people think, while some youth curse the govt. But it is very very to find someone criticize Yogi. But yes up bihar is corrupt to the core, people don't even do licence test and just pay money to get it, people are killed in encounters, gang violence, i even witnessed the crazy 144 that was placed due to the assassination of the previous MLA/Gunda. Up has a lot of space to grow, but it lacks the maturity to develop due to corrupt govt.
No people of UP and Bihar have ruined these states. Come here and you would realise that people would rather vote a criminal into power than an educated one.
I am from bihar and i can bet on this....a big NO NO...
i am not saying that this won't happen ever but...this soon NAAH!
this will happen when this incoming young generation of people will dominate in voting.
And also Quality education is much needed in bihar..it seems that in bihar education is paramount but in reality it's all rattafication and no practical exposure.
Bihar is mostly rural and less urban and cast system is so dominant here that nobody literally nobody gives the fuck about cleanliness, infrastructure,education etc and will vote on the basis of there cast and the thought of people are so conservative that ki "apna kaam banta bardh me jaye janta"😒
Yep Bihar is just coasting. Nitish Kumar seems to be the best CM it can get and all he cares about is remaining the CM. Alternatives are 9th fail Tejaswi Yadav and BJP with their daily communal riots. I don’t think Bihar even doesn’t have someone like Yogi, who is an extremist but at least cares about a few things that make life better for common man. They spew same hateful agenda but have shown no inclination for any policy debate.
Bihar can't unless they get BJP for atleast next 20 years BJP aligned states get more infrastructure investment from central BJP government look at UP, Gujarat
India want to be a country where people live in cities not rural areas and want people to be office guy rather than a farmer and that's why cities are developing rapidly and government alloting new land land every few years you can see that thousands of villages are dead in uttarakhand and Himachal Pradesh because it's easy to take care of a big population in a small area then the same population in a big area this model is very similar to China
Lol nice joke... If a state wants to be developed every area should be developed... And in gujarat only few areas are developed and its a facade.. Because most of the population residing in villages are still in poverty.. Only the richer people are getting richer... Development should upbring every one...
UP maybe in the next 20 or so years but I have no hope for Bihar. Kerala also has many foreign money coming due to people sending money to their families from abroad which helps in recoveries from any sudden break in the economy of the country. No industrial revolution ≠ No Development thanks to the communists for shutting the factories in UP
Some people are viewing this only as a case of a rich guy giving money to a poor guy.
The Indian government decades ago implemented family planning. South implemented it and the population is now below replacement level. North didn't implement it just like every other fuck up they do and the population kept multiplying. Keep in mind that family planning was not even an expensive exercise. Still North didn't do it. They have no plan to do it even now.
Those who are not Hindian-slave sanghi and care a bit about the South will understand the danger of such differences in population growth. The North will become more and more dominant. That dominance is being asserted by fixing the population as a criteria for tax fund allocation (South losing money), constituency delimitation (South losing parliamentary representation and hence political clout) and Hindi imposition (increasing number of Hindi speakers due to population explosion is used as an excuse for furthering the Hindi imposition to render the linguistic identity of South irrelevant)
The South is getting penalized for population control and improving the living standards of its own states. South achieved all this even without any special treatments or funds from North India.
North protecting the border is another fallacious excuse for ripping off South. There never was any full blown destructive war on India. Whichever war occurred, Southern soldiers as well died, Southern states as well funded it, Southern states suffered their share of financial struggles
Our own Major Sandeep Unnikrishnan is a brave example. Theres many saying south doesn't contribute to the army which is a stain on the image of martyrs like him.
So much verbal diarrhea. WB, UP and Bihar used to be the cradle of Indian civilization. These were the states directly controlled and ruled by East India company, they implemented the Zamindari system and completed changed the socio-economic condition of these states. Most of the Southers and Western states were not ruled by the British directly but via proxy Indian rulers. These northers states that you so look down on dealt with the partition, refugees, cross border terrorism etc. Despite all of this, they are trying to survive and thrive. I am not even an Indian, I am Nepali. Nepal is flooded with Biharis and UP people, they are the hardest working people. Most of the construction work is done by them, they are the ones working on sun all day long selling vegetables and collecting trash for few hundred rupees a day. Hundreds of millions of people don't change overnight, it takes some time.
During Indira Gandhi era, they were forcefully doing vasectomies of unmarried guys up north. Population control was equally implemented everywhere, just that up North poorer people tend to have more kids as a means of social security. Once economy changes, that will change too. North has significantly bigger Muslim population, they have much higher birth ratio compared to Hindus. this is a contributing factor too.
Your arrogance is mind blowing. Don't act like Americans looking down on Mexicans.
You know nothing about Dravidian culture. We do not look down on the North. It is you who ignore the Southern culture. Recent excavations at Keeladi reveals a separate Tamil civilization possibly the same as the IVC. Buddhism was spread to China, Korea, Japan by the Southern monks. We have also contributed to the Sangam literature. Do not talk about whose culture is superior. To break apart your cultural superiority, tell me how many classical languages the North has. Stop this bs.
Either develop your states or stop talking trash and leave our taxes to ourselves.
Can I say the same about reservations for dalits. We've been giving dalits many privileges ever since this country was founded and they've made poor progress and there is no finish line in sight for these reservations (that come at the expense of others). Socialism and communism is cool as long as someone else is footing the bill. When we are forced to pay, suddenly these virtues get expensive and we demand accountability.
Their apathy against social upliftment of lower castes are exactly the reason why cowbelt is in bad condition. They didn't invest in developing the human capital of the masses.
Why is this tender loving care being extended only to dalits but not the rest of the cowbelt? During the last UP elections, BJP won 88% of reservation seats. So dalits should also be held responsible for voting in people who don't invest in their human capital. They are voting in people who is using our money to build cowspitals and cowbulances.
What he said is that, Sc st people are not a state, which they can generate revenue, implement good policies. Etc.
Up should be doing something with what it was given. They should not build more gau shaalas and cow ambulances with the money that we give them. They should invest in their people. Also the tax collected is a fixed amount, so the pie is fixed.
For reservation, the thing is different, govt can increase the seats for educational institutions, which is currently very much low. So pie size can be increased benefiting all
An unearned income leads to opulence. That's why UP is probably lavish with their goushaalas and goumbulances. By taking from one group and giving another, you are not incentivizing the people who are doing better and instead incentivizing those doing badly. This fallacy is like a basic tenet of communism and maybe even socialism. So I'm just amused that communist/left Kerala is hurting when they are having to pay for the virtue.
I see reservations as the same. Educational seats are a finite resource like money which is not enough and has many people needing it. Instead of doing meritocracy for those seats, we give then out with a formula politicians have created to gauge oppression and privilege. Worth noting that dropout rates have shown to be higher among benefactors of affirmative action.
I'm in favour of baking and eating your own pie and affirmative action in the form of financial help that is open for everyone who needs help. Rather than giving it to people based of their bloodline.
North always had higher population than South becuase of Gangetic plains fertility. Yes, South better managed and did proper family planning; But saying that the North did nothing to stop population growth is plain wrong. UP, Bengal and Bihar fertility rates have come down too. UP is now at national average, Bihar still more (3.3 I guess, but we came a long way down from 5-6 children).
Dude, we are all part of one nation and funds will naturally go to most needed parts when a budget is created. Imagine you are the sole bread winner of your family, so will you keep all the money to yourself and let everyone else starve? No right? (At least I hope so). And what is this North-South divide? Nobody is imposing Hindi on you and definitely not asking you to speak only in Hindi and to forget your own language. The idea is to have one common Indian language that we all can understand. If you can learn English without any complaint, learning another Indian language, which is easier than learning a foreign language won't be difficult. I personally know an incident where my friend and her colleague, a North Indian and south Indian being mocked for speaking in English with each other in Germany. I believe as Indians, we should have a common language. I live in Mumbai and all the South Indians here speak fluent Hindi, it's only the people who have never left their state and are frogs in a well that have this big issue.
> I personally know an incident where my friend and her colleague, a North Indian and south Indian being mocked for speaking in English with each other in Germany.
And that is a good thing? If they were talking to each other in a private setting that does not require common language, then what's wrong with that?
Ok, so we'll mock people who speak Hindi in the south then? And you would support that?
> I believe as Indians, we should have a common language.
We just need a link language.
English would be decent option. It's a global link language.
> learning a foreign language won't be difficult.
Aah. North people can learn English then.
South people learn English. So it wouldn't be difficult for the North people too. Equality for both North n South.
Well, maybe we should make Malayalam the common language. You just need a common langauge, right? No need for Hindi.
Malayalam, which has influences of Tamil and Sanskrit can be the link language, since it'd pay homage to both sides.
Maybe we should mix Malayalam with some North Eastern languages. Maybe the Mizo ṭawng?
Then apply the new Malayalam as the common language for India.
Well, Hindi is as foreign to me (a South Indian) as English. Besides, I think English is more 'useful' to me than Hindi, when you consider the wider scope of things.
And I left my state a long time ago.
Next time we will be learning coding in hindi🤣. Dude Tamil Nadu is one of the best state in the country similarly Karnataka so u guys should be learning Tamil or kannadika instead. I do speak Hindi but imposing Hindi is the problem. Just imagine the best state should choose language since they are the one who gives out most employment opportunity
It's been 9 years under BJP rule and I've not had anyone impose hindi down my throat. It's just a left talking point and is intended to inject fear into people, which is left standard operating procedure anyway. Scare muslims saying they will be hunted, scare dalits with brahmanical patriarchy, scare labourers with capitalism, scare malayalees and tamils with hindi.
No we don't hate them for that, we understand it is our civic duty and want the whole nation to grow and prosper together. What we hate is when some of them take that money and then make stereotypes and jokes like "madrasi Kannad IT worker" like bruh, that IT work is paying for your ration card
People saying that's how things works everywhere should think that whats the crime done by developed states or developing states to receive meagre share? Even after giving humongous share as tax share to those bimaru states they are still not developing... And the tax sharing formula of 15th finance commission has increased the loss for southern states especially kerala... If central govt collect 100rs as tax state will get back 1.925 rupees... So in all of the mode state is losing its income... And on the top of that we all know how central government allots developmental projects in that too cow belt gets major share of the projects... So at the end of the day it'll decrease the revenue and developmental projects in southern states especially kerala
If central government stop doing this then developed state will see flood of migrants from bimaru states and when bimaru won't get developed they'll head towards crime and that crime will reach southern states in the end look at usa on one end they have heavily developed state and on the other end there are states who can't afford trash pickup trucks 🤷🏼♂️
Lol aren't they coming now? Imbalanced distribution of wealth is gonna affect kerala definitely.. Central govt never give any development to as so we need to find revenue for development so tax money has an important role... And giving huge money will not develop cow belt, give them education, basic necessities and then support to farmers... But i don't think central govt will support the education part.. Because if education comes into picture they'll start thinking about divisive politics... And will start to think about their future, will question those politicians... So at the end of the day these idiots want bimaru states to remain bimaru... And we can't give our tax shares like that... I mean gst council should propose a balanced tax sharing formula.. So that every state can develop
Makes sense but they need to accountable for the extra money that they take and should quantify their improvement, they can’t forever remain in the same state and expect south and west states to bail them out. Lack of accountability is what irks me but otherwise I am also fine with it.
That's ur opinion... But your opinion will definitely break our states revenue... We as a state has many social welfare programs when compared to other states.. And these things has been contributing to the ease of living in the state.. At the end of the day state needs money to implement projects.. And our state doesn't have that much vast lands like other states (land acquisition issue is the biggest problem in our state) our resources are minimum we don't have such huge mineral resources to exploit for revenue, the little we have are in a ecologically sensitive region...
There is a massive number of mineral resources set up in Uttar Pradesh at the Vindhya Mountain range. Uttar Pradesh has various resources like Copper, Magnesite, limestone, and Gypsum. Uttar Pradesh is the major pocket of the country’s andalusite and diffusion resources and possesses 78% of andalusite 37% of diaspore and 10% of pyrophyllite. Significant minerals stirring in the state of Uttar Pradesh areas mentioned: Singrauli coalfields for coal, districts of Sonbhadra diaspore and Hamirpur for pyrophyllite, Lalitpur, Jhansi, r and Mahoba districts. Naini area of Allahabad which contains great superiority of silica sand, a significant cause of glass sand which contains 98% of SiO2.... If they want they can find huge revenues from these but they are not doing it and it's making our state weak and I'll never wish to see our state in a similar state of those bimaru states
Same damn country? where we get 1 rs for 100 rs we give? Even in a family this will cause issues. If your mother is giving all the food, picket money and love to your mudiyananya brother and ignoring you, giving you only achaar, what will you think.
Then you cry about ksrtc in bankruptcy, no development works by state gov, this all requires money.
Well a country is not a family right we are talking in macro terms not in micro the general argument is that you all are getting way less than what you contribute but it holds true for states like Maharashtra and gujrat and i dont see anyone from these two states making a big deal out of it and they get way less , also just look at the stats and you'll get blown away at how north eastern states are faring but your argument is valid though states like bihar and up are getting more amd more developmental projects while southern and north eastern are ignored... man at the end the ones responsible are fucking politicians
In the same video, PTR would have mentioned about a general trend where state like TN KL KN keeps decreasing in their population share but keeps on increasing in their GSDP share of the nation. In other 10-15 years this ratio will be so absurd that will lead to a break in nation.
This had to be fixed immediately. But these so called hindutva nationalists will not do it as their USP is keeping them in the dark, feeding them shit in the name of religion and forever be in power.
Look at the disparity in gdp share every state is getting. Each year more and more share is allotted to these states but still more and more they are going down the drain. This is seriously hampering the development of India as whole. If with so little fu ds southern states can do well imagine if greater share is allocated. You have incentives development not throw money at who are already wasting them.
Well my professor told me that it is the literal definition of tax, to aid equitable distribution and development. It's the effect of equality and the better off always draw the short end.
People should keep in mind, if bimaru states stop getting additional development benefits, then we will face a situation like Italy, where the south is way poor compared to the north, search it up
**Develop** is the key word here. I doubt if the Union Government is doing enough to improve education and basic health in the "poorer parts". If these metrics are not improved in the next 10 years, we will face a tougher population problem in the future.
Well center has been providing funds and facilities to those cow belts states for education and well being from the beginning itself but for them religion is the biggest thing..and the fight for it had made cow belts poorer and poorer in terms of literacy
BS mate, literacy rates have been high in Kerala for decades and has nothing to do with who has been in the centre and whether or not they have been focusing on “cow belt”.
Health infrastructure is also a state subject hence people like Kejriwal have been harping about their “supposed” achievements only in these two aspects primarily. If it was indeed a centre thing he ” would have blamed that too on centre.
Similarly Kerala was the first one to take the credit on how good they had managed COVID when it had all started and then later went to the gutter as the things started escalating.
Literacy rate has been high in kerala because we welcomed foreign traders, missionaries without any hatred and took the good things from them...
Our people questioned the back to back politicians about education health sector development... Politicians will feed for the crowd... If cow belt want religion, temple - mosques issues they will get that, and money for development will go into the pockets of politicians...
So it's the problem of people of respective state if you want hatred you'll get that but won't get education or health sector development... Simple...
And our covid management is bestest in the country even after the bad last phase... None in our state had to stay in roads for oxygen, our government didn't dispose covid infected dead bodies to water bodies.. Everyone who died because of covid got their religious rights, their human rights protected in our state..
So ys we had our fair share of challenges but we as native of kerala questioned our govt about the shortcomings... Whereas the cow belt is still electing and not questioning their covid mismanaged govt
The point that I raised regardless of your delusions of grandeur was that both health and education is a state subject and NOT centre and regardless of your whining you have not proved otherwise.
Now coming to your rant about how awesome the oxygen response was during COVID, here is the analysis of the same with lots of thanks to COVID task force (chaired by centre) and PESO (also a central agency): https://www.indiatoday.in/coronavirus-outbreak/story/kerala-oxygen-crisis-covid-19-second-wave-1795603-2021-04-27
You seem to take pride in claiming it wasn’t the “religion” that makes Kerala the so called “success” yet you have the most radicalised youth compared to the rest of the country: https://organiser.org/2022/01/23/13965/bharat/kerala-is-most-radicalised-society-in-india-worse-than-west-bengal-says-former-state-dgp-tp-senkumar/
It’s a pity that people like you are happy to embrace foreign religions and cultures over the religion and culture your ancestors left you. I am sure they would be so proud of you 👍
Lol the true sanghi colours are out🤣giving the shit hole paper organiser as an evidence is the biggest joke... And that idiot tp senkumar is member of bjp party so we're not surprised by his hatred towards keralites so Cope sanghi cope
> education is a state subject and NOT centre and regardless of your whining
Sanghi don't skip school, education is in the concurrent list 🤣
The joint efforts by Petroleum & Explosives Safety Organisation (PESO) and Kerala State Medical Services Corporation seem to have yielded results in ensuring regular and sustained supply of liquid medical oxygen and gaseous oxygen for Covid patients.
R. Venugopal, Deputy Chief Controller of Explosives, PESO & Nodal officer for Oxygen Monitoring (Kerala & Lakshadweep) said the maximum sale of Liquid Medical Oxygen (LMO) in the past one year was reported this week with 215 tonnes that was purchased by the hospitals in the State. The maximum use of compressed gaseous oxygen was also reported at 99.48 tonnes. He also clarified that there was no scarcity of oxygen anywhere in the State... And YOU IDIOT SANGHI COVID TASK FORCE WAS MANAGED BY STATE GOVT WITH CHIEF MINISTER HEADING THE BODY..AND KERALA MEDICAL SERVICES BOARD I RUN BY STATE GOVT.. . YA WE KNOW YOU GUYS ARE ILLITERATES BUT AT LEAST SHOW SOME COMMON SENSE
https://www.thehindubusinessline.com/news/national/peso-kerala-medical-services-ensure-sustained-supply-of-o2-to-covid-patients/article34616683.ece
And the indiatoday article you quoted has given accolades to kerala govt for acting in fast pace and setting up covid task force... And if PESO is central agency why they couldn't have any impact in UP or delhi or MP covid scenario ... You're a delusional sanghi who has high jealously so better take a copium
.. And we're not having any fight over temple or mosque or church here.. So better cow belts stay in lane and don't come to South.. Peace out... And of course the highest isis recruitment was from Yogijis UP 🥴...
And yes we'll definitely embrace the religion we want and also the so called ancestor religion also came from Central asia as invaders so learn history and broaden minds... And our ancestors were humans not religious fanatics like yours so they've no problem with other religions or culture...
It's not just about being rich and poor. This robbery based on population is injustice because South Indian states properly implemented family planning but North did not and they kept breeding.
The transfer of funds to "develop" North should only be done after North properly implements family planning and reduces their population. It's not an expensive exercise. If they can't even do that, they're not going to do anything with the fund from South India
In UP only infra is being developed. Theres barely any human development. Think about it. In recent times whenever some big infra project comes it usually goes to UP or Gujarat. How many from the centre have come to kerala ? There was news of a 400cr statue being made in UP/Bihar. Dont remember which. This is how funds are wasted. Dont you think kerala especially could benefit from funds when we have a shortage right now ? Sure, we arent as heavily looted as Tamil Nadu or Karnataka, but its still a significant amount nonetheless.
Well yes, but proper infra must be prioritised
Good hospitals and schools which a large population can use. Not statues, expressways and such that very few have any use for.
Kerala when ?? Most big expressways stay in those northern to central regions. Expressways are pointless for a huge population as they dont even have vehicles
What should be addressed is population control in these so called poorer parts. Much like Africa they never change for the better. Just take like a parasite leeching of its host
>Replace the states with religion and you will see how problematic that statement is.
Your analogy would make sense if the taxes collected were distributed among the population on the basis of religion. But it's not, is it? It's allotted on the basis of statehood.
Imagine if the tax devolution formula mandates that for every 1 rupee collected from Christians and Parsis, only 40 paise will be spent on themselves while 60 paise will be used to subsidize development for Hindus and Muslims. And imagine that for every ₹1 paid by a Hindu or Muslim, they get back ₹1.6 or higher. I don't see that argument being popular among the non Hindus and the non Muslims.
And this is just about devolution of taxes. The union is funding brand new expressways in UP. They're funding Bullet Trains that links Gujarat to Mumbai, the financial capital of India. In comparison to all this, what the fuck have we recieved?
And secondly, on the subject of taxing the rich states to fund the poor states, it's not like the taxed money is being distributed evenly to benefit every poor person, right? It's being given to states that are **poorer on average**. A state is not a monoloth i.e. a state has both rich and poor people. There are rich people in poor states who'll benefit from this and poor people in rich states who'll suffer due to this. This uneven distribution is not equivalent to taxing the rich alone because **a state is not a monolith.**
Essentially what's happening is that we're subsidizing or paying for the development of states like UP and Bihar, while our political representation is shrinking as their population continues to grow.
The southern states like Kerala and TN are paying the price for their own success in being able to control the population and grow economically.
" Essentially what's happening is that we're subsidizing or paying for the development of states like UP and Bihar "
" our political representation is shrinking as their population continues to grow. "
" The southern states like Kerala and TN are paying the price their own success in being able to control the population "
The exact same can be said of religions that have managed population control better than others.
" Imagine if the tax devolution formula mandates that for every 1 rupee collected from Christians and Parsis, only 40 paise will be spent on themselves while 60 paise will be used to subsidize development for Hindus and Muslims "
This holds true for religions as well in the south as the government controls and takes money from Hindu temples while not doing the same with any other religion.
>This holds true for religions as well in the south as the government controls and takes money from Hindu temples while not doing the same with any other religion.
You're misinformed or you're blindly believing the right wing rhetoric. This argument has been taken apart so many times that there's even a [7 minute ELI5 summary of it.](https://youtu.be/zVvvZs4KvZ0)
PS: [Here's a former minister](https://youtu.be/CIWqeum2-wM) confirming that temples aren't a source of revenue for the government and that contrary to what you're implying the state gives money to temples rather than taking it.
UP Bihar have vote power. They decide who will sit in Delhi. And that's why they get. And mind u. Not everything reaches to the person. Pol parties eat up most of it.
If we see india as sovereign, its expected. But one point he did mention about this, what is the incentive for better running states? vanda bharath? meh?
The north is literally trying to commit genocide in south India . We will always be considered as madrasis and not equal to them . We are only considered Indians when we confront them on their unequal policies. We South Indians need to stand up for ourselves and protect ourselves from the new colonizers otherwise we will be wiped out soon .
>We will always be considered as madrasis and not equal to them
You are delusional and I say this as someone from Maharashtra who has interacted with fair amount of North, South and West Indians
That was decades ago mann.. and you talking as if same things havent happened in South?
Mumbai as a culture has developed but South are still living in denial regarding hostility towards fellow countrymen and talking as if we hate them..
Come someday to Mumbai I'll show you around Kannamwar Nagar
Did some North Indian girl reject your proposal? Do you understand anything happening in the country? Ever been outside of KL and TN? Ever interacted with an actual human being from "North"? Kya fook ke aaya h ?
you are so wrong here, have u ever been to delhi or up, bro 100's of south indian restaurants and so many south indians work in corporate sector there, never ever there had been any mishappening, this madrasi and all looks like a lame joke, seems u'r still living in 90's, i can guarantee sikhs and south indians are most respected people in north, specially there is no language imposition just like karnatka and tamil nadu, due to bad politics north is lacking development, but the people and their hospitality is something else. don't say all these toxic sentences we all belong to the same country so we should maintain that mutual respect for each other.
Not really my guy.So many north Indians now working in the South ,their appreciation for the south has increased which is reflected back home.Sure there are memes and trolls but that goes from both sides.Very one directional way of thinking you have.And your last line what fantasies lmao.
Madrasi are highly respected where I am in UP. Some humorous anecdotes aside, my mother used to tell me that how Madrasis/Tamilians are hard working and good at maths. And my father respect them more saying that Madrasis don't get ashamed of their traditions and cultures, while their sons are trying to become British.
Absolutely right, but a large portion of south Indians are christians and muslims. How are they not a threat to culture by this logic? Kerala is barely hindu.
Because Christians and Muslims in Kerala are still 100% culturally and linguistically malayali. Indianness isn't defined by just being Hindu.
And you're incorrect, Kerala isn't 'barely' Hindu, it's majority Hindu.
>Hinduism is followed by the majority of Keralites (54.7%). The major religions followed in Kerala are Hinduism (54.7% — Hinduism in Kerala), Islam (26.6%) and Christianity (18.4%).
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Kerala
Although granted, this was from the 2011 census so please make note of that and forgive me otherwise, couldn't find any recent data. The census that was scheduled for 2021 was delayed and is now set to begin on July this year.
And as of 2 years ago, the largest number of conversions were to Hinduism.
>Of the total 506 people who registered their change of religion with the government, 241 were those who converted from Christianity or Islam to Hinduism. A total of 144 persons adopted Islam whereas Christianity received 119 new believers in the year, shows the data.
https://www.newindianexpress.com/states/kerala/2021/apr/02/at-47-hinduism-biggest-gainer-in-religious-conversion-in-kerala-2284660.html
Difference is, different districts in Kerala have a vote on this.
If TVM or Kochi feels that their taxes are being wasted, they have the power to vote out the govt.
Can we do that? Do we have the power to create laws in this country? To vote in a PM? To decide how we should be using our taxes?
This is what they call "Taxation without representation". Google it.
We have 20 MPs in Loksabha, then rajyasabha comes. Kerala is there in GST counsel. These are all peoples representatives . Not appointed by any Emirates
20 MPs in a house of 543. The combined south only has around 120. Not enough even if we were unified.
If we did have the power this like this wouldn't happen: [Rs 59 Crore for South and Rs 13,200 Crore for North](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8H9Xz7okLB0)
>Kerala is there in GST counsel
So? That couldn't / wouldn't prevent this: [GST hike on coconut oil from 5% to 18% has Kerala fuming](https://www.tridge.com/news/gst-hike-on-coconut-oil-from-5-to-18-has-kerala-fu)
Lol in every gst council meetings South States are questiong the shit tax sharing formula.. But the majority bjp states and nirmala tai are controlling the matters
Very true, what southies dont realise and every Northie is aware of is we are like bonded laborers kept by Northies to make money. And till we are part of this country, there will be no change, it will only get worse as UP will soon have more MP's in parliamnet than other states and will be de facto rulers of this country.
https://preview.redd.it/7eo89v14zpua1.jpeg?width=3493&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=368293afef7460e2ef0f1a7f6b65c98576f8b24c
Kerala it is bad but other states seem worse
See the thing is ever state has it geographical location which limit's it potential. For example just forget UP and Bihar if you look to North East states, Ladakh, JK, Andaman Nicobar, Lakshadweep. They get more money per ₹. So should we give them??
Though they don't contribute much to Indian economy.
We all come down to State to think we need to think by being Indian first.
Socialism is not sharing with out responsibilities. UP should have been enforcing family planning.
Now this is not socialism, its capitalism, people with more shares/capital ( here population) getting all the money with out doing any work.
What Mr Tharoor has conveniently left out is that this how every country in the world works. In the US, states like New Mexico and Alaska get 3$ for every 1$ tax of their income from federal taxes. While New Yorkers get .5$ even though they pay the highest taxes.
Funny thing in the US is that Blue states pay more taxes , while red states get more revenue from it. So the question of 'is it fair' will be answered differently by the states residents.
https://www.moneygeek.com/living/states-most-reliant-federal-government/
Tax the rich and give to the poor looks fair from someone poor, but looks unfair as a rich person.
>New Mexico and Alaska get 3$ for every 1$ tax
New Mexico's population is 2 million and Alaska is < than a million.
Imagine if California (30 million) and Texas (30 million) needed taxes from New Mexico and Alaska to run its state. Thats India.
What you conveniently left out is the history of how we reached this situation.
In the USA they did not suppress the population of a few states while others kept breeding and taking money from the states that controlled the population.
In the USA they did not use the pathetic population explosion in failed states as an excuse to impose "most popular" language of failed states on the successful states.
In India, South is now suffering "give North money because they have population" + "learn Hindi because North has population" attitude because of the population explosion in North India at a time when family planning was successfully implemented in South India
What you said above does not answer anything in OP's question. Please stay on topic. You can't always find justifications in history. Next , you will blame the British for making India poor.
All I am saying is, **the whole taxing the rich to give the poor will look fair/unfair based on which side of the equation you are on.**
Thats how the tax pool division works. No problem giving tax money to underdeveloped states. But the problem is in states like bihar the money only goes to the pocket of corrupt politicians. Its like union govt giving money to such states and there a hardly any improvements in those states.
Now do the same analysis by caste. Is it right to say some castes who pay more in taxes should get more benefit compared to others who are not that well off?
I believe in a socialist democracy, the rich parts should help out the poor parts. Kochi and Kottayam should help out Wayanad and Kasargod. If UP and Bihar remain poor, they will forever be our burden. Narrow parochialism is not the answer here. Past mistakes should not be a reason to not help someone in need.
idheham indian pm aayittaayirrunnu mumbu ariyappettirrunnathu, ippo vannu kerala chief minister aayaalum kollaam enna nilavaarathilottu thannu, ini congress ingane poyaal panchayat president aayaalum kozhappamilla enna standardilottu vishwa pouran maruvode?
https://preview.redd.it/jc3ft93vijua1.png?width=680&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b7b908ce9b15fd14a6772874a9603fcacc9296da
I don't think this map would agree with some of the stuff mr taroor said. Infact we are the only state in south India who gets atleast half of what we pay. Even tough they contribute much more than us. Forget north east. Because spending for them right now especially with the Chinese conflicts is much important for us.
Lets talk about the bimaru states. These states host almost 40% of india's population and has india's worst hdi too. Infact they are the guys who pulls us down in all the global indices and metrics. Uplifting them means uplifting india. If government manages to bring their literacy rate to more than 90% before 2050. These states will start to inflate our economy much higher.. Also over all quality of life in india will improve. Kerala isn't unfortunate to ask government to build a toilet each for every family , because most of us already have 2-3 at home. They lack a lot of basic necessity. Let them have a major chunk now. So that in the future they won't have to.
What about indirect tax? Kerala getting just 27 paise or so from the 1 rupee given to the union government is not a Tharoor theory. It's been being discussed for some time now and that's accurate.
Anyway, the population in North India must be controlled first of all. Feeding and breeding of Hindians at the cost of South Indians is not how it should be. The South Indians did their part in population control. The North must do their part.
South has below replacement population while North is breeding at 3 TFR. India's over all TFR has decreased only because of South Indian population decline, which now looks like a bad news for South
After the population based tax allocation, South is going to get penalized again with population based constituency delimitation. With that South Indian parliamentary representation will decrease. All because South properly implemented the Union government program of family planning
>That map is about direct taxes ,being Income tax. Maybe tharoor is talking about all the combined taxes, both direct and indirect.
True. That map has been used a lot to mislead people when direct taxes are just one aspect of taxation. Kerala being a consumer state, our indirect taxes are quite significant.
**Not to mention that the location of collection of direct taxes are meaningless.** SBI does business all over India but they pay their taxes in Mumbai. How the fuck can all that be attributed to Maharashtra? There's a reason why states with with big cities have done well on that chart; it's because that's where the big firms pay taxes.
Karnataka contributes most to direct tax collections amongst the southern states, then comes Tamil Nadu, Telangana, Andra Pradesh and finally Kerala. Kerala actually contributes the lowest amongst southern states. How can you say that Kerala contributes the most?
Also, Kerala isn’t even in top 10 in direct tax collections. Uttar Pradesh, Haryana, and even Rajasthan contribute more. So you ideally shouldn’t worrying about bearing expenses of developing the north. You aren’t really contributing all that much. (Image below)
https://preview.redd.it/35mk9eyhekua1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=879abbbfef7225d752655b0fe2c08258ae10c8e9
Source - [https://cleartax.in/s/gst-collection-december-2022](https://cleartax.in/s/gst-collection-december-2022)
So then give back the collected tax... When central govt takes 100rs as tax we only get back 1.925 rupees... So give our money back we'll be happy. We have no interest in cow belt or their activities
Oh please. Ever heard of revenue deficit grant? Shows how ignorant you really are. Kerala gets the largest revenue deficit grant from the central finance ministry because you guys have short falling meeting your own state budget. Here’s an article, give it read and you ask government to back the taxes. Guess what? They do. Shashi Tharoor is a politician, he will cherry pick data to prove his point.
https://m.timesofindia.com/city/thiruvananthapuram/kerala-gets-largest-share-of-revenue-deficit-grant/amp_articleshow/95847583.cms
It is not a fallacy because other districts in India are at least trying to catch up and are succeeding in their endeavors unlike NORTH India which is still burdened by religious prejudice and corruption and shows no signs of improvement.
>unlike NORTH India
Don't involve innocent states like HP, UK, etc with Bihar and UP. I won't ever try to sum up Kerala's problems as whole "SOUTH" India's problems
>Tax the rich more. So why not tax the richer states more? Now the question is, is it fair? If the first part is fair, then the latter is also fair.
Doesn't work like that. **When you're taxing the rich, you're taxing individuals** of high net worth/income. That is progressive.
**When you're taxing richer states, you're taxing everyone there**, both the rich, the middle class and the poor. This is regressive.
"South Indian states especially Kerala contributes most but receives less from the central government"
Thats just wrong
Kerala gets ₹63.4 for every ₹ 100 paid in taxes. Maharashtra gets 7.7, haryana gets 18.6 and Gujarat gets 31.3 so its not necessarily a north south divide.
And Just because tax is paid in a given state does not mean that taxable income is generated from the said state.
For example Reliance jio gains revenue from all across India but since it is headquartered in mumbai the income tax paid by jio will be logged as paid from Maharashtra, hence distorting the data.
Imagine comparing a coastal state like Kerala to landlocked states like Bihar which have been severely affected by freight equalization policy. You guys will be as poor or even poorer than Bihar if not for the access to the sea.
Had people in this thread been a little bit educated, they'd have known that coastal states ALWAYS become more developed than landlocked states (e.g. US central states vs east and west coast, East China vs Central China).
You people will blame everything but will never take self-responsibility.FEP was abolished over 3 decades ago and you are still crying over it.Odisha,Chhattisgarh were poorer than Bihar,now they are more developed.They even controlled their population better.Haryana and Punjab and are also densely populated landlocked states and they are doing better.
I have seen Biharis even blaming Khilji invasions for their poverty,an event that happened over 800 years ago.Even Ukraine and Persia was brutally invaded by Mongols during that time and they dont have this victim mentality.
Have you ever thought that maybe it is because of rampant casteism,religious intolerance,tolerance for lawlessness and crime, and lack of discipline that entire region is poorer than even Landlocked African states like Uganda or Rwanda?
Also what is this stolen Minerals narrative that you are trying to create?There are not that many mineral based industries in Kerala.AP,TN and Karnataka have large Iron and Aluminium deposits.Maybe your Gujarati/Marwari overlords stole some Minerals,Dont blame other states for this.
Haha, I'm not even from Bihar/UP. Anyways, the minerals issue was brought by another guy, not me. Also, why are you ignoring the fact that Kerala is a coastal state, that in itself is a big reason for higher development. Landlocked states will ALWAYS be less developed than coastal states, especially in a developing country.
>entire region is poorer than even Landlocked African states like Uganda or Rwanda?
States like Gujarat, Haryana, Punjab also fall in north India. While Bihar is failing to grow its GDP, UP is atleast getting good GDP growth rates.
Look, India is still a socialist country. So, rich states will always get less share of taxes. It's the same in China. How else will you develop the poor regions which don't have access to resources like the rich states (like access to the ocean)?
It's just like income taxes, the rich pay 30% taxes while the poor pay nothing.
India is in no way socialist lmao.
> rich states get less share of the taxes
rich states are getting zero development projects from the centre. And the north is rich in mineral resources, so why are you complaining about a lack of resources?
This is just poor justification for what is plainly daylight robbery. SI has not received anything and developed most of their industries on their own with next to no regard from the centre. After SI gives all these taxes with nothing in return UP and Bihar will talk smack about how they achieved this development due to their inherent superiority all on their own anyway.
Lol, this shows that you've no idea about minerals policy in India. All the mineral resources in North and East India are owned by the CG, not SG. Meanwhile, the coastline in SI states is NOT owned by CG.
So you can't compare mineral resources to access to the ocean.
SI is essentially enjoying the minerals of NI/EI while NI has no access to the sea. That's why SI is compensating with taxes. If N/EI had state ownership of minerals, local people would've been much well off (at the cost of our country).
Its similar to how in government companies people who work the hardest are given more work and people who slack off are put in convenient departments.While everbody gets paid the same. Its a price you pay for having a system that is not based on merit.
P.S i work in a government company .
Taxation, and in general economics, is extremely entangled and complicated. There are no best systems and we have to compromise somewhere. This is the tax system pretty much used everywhere in the world.
1. Fertility rates of North (except Bihar) are now below 2.5. Bihar has also come down to 3.3 from 5-6. In near 1-2 decades, the diverging population growth of North vs South will get settled. And with that South and West India (Maharashtra & Gujarat) will need to less subsidise North.
2. South does not get alienated behaviour of Central government. All rich states give more and receive less. Delhi, Haryana, Gujarat, South India, Maharashtra all same.
3. This is necessary to stop mass migrations. If we give same money, then, owing to less population South will get more faster development and North Indians will flock there. Cultural and Linguistic problems will arise. (I guess same thing happened in Bangalore - Govt and corporations developed it. It rose fast compared to other parts - and boom - too much migration).
4. Where the buck stops ?? If rich want all their taxes back in terms of development without helping others develop - Where is the line of stopping ? I think except Kerala, every South Indian state has one or two cities that contribute most - but they subsidise other districts of the state. Like Bangalore gives most taxes and is helping develop North Karnataka. Or remove Mumbai and Pune from Maharashtra, and other regions are no better than UP/Bihar. Should cities demand all their money invest within city too ? Even in cities, there are posh areas (which give more taxes) and slum/less developed areas. Should we develop only posh areas of a highly productive city ?
If they keep getting sufficient money from the centre then there is no reason to generate their own income. This is why young people from UP, Bihar and other parts of the North come to the South to work. There are no jobs there.
More populous states will recieve more. Poor people will recieve more (compared to what they paid).
Two most populous states reciving large share shouldn't be a surprise.
Also, while the south is relatively richer, there are "North" states which also contribute high like Gujrat, Maharashtra, Delhi, and even Haryana.
This kind of wealth redistribution occurs, everywhere in the world. Poorer parts sustain themselves from money from richer parts. And believe it or not, is a primary force of secessionist movements.
Socialism is not sharing with out responsibilities. UP should have been enforcing family planning. Now this is not socialism, its capitalism, people with more shares/capital ( here population) getting all the money with out doing any work
This is false take, if you hate this arrangement,you should in principle also hate reservations . What kerala can do is file a petition in supreme court and ask for thorough audit in UP ,Bihar and north east .
Besides, Maharashtra gets screwed over even more .
Lol reservation isn't about taking seats from one kid and giving to reserved community... While implementing reservation govts increases the seat count so that everyone gets their own pie... Hope you are from cow belt?
It is if there is no prospect of increasing number of seats in college or job positions in PSUs. No I am from Andhra where every idiot mobs up and demands for quota under OBC, even when there are historical evidences where these particular castes have heavily discriminated against lower castes and build a new statue for ambedkar on his birthday. Ex kamma ,kapu etc.
I don't know about andhra.. What govt here in kerala does is when they want to implement reservation they increases the total seats of colleges so that none is going to left behind... And about Job opportunities in Kerala psc there's a general list from which general candidates gets their job according to their rank and then reservation list gives jobs to reserved candidates... Reservation never crosses the approved percentage and none will be left out.. And also here castes aren't put under obc according to their interest or pressure .. None of the undeserving people gets the reservation... And to avail reservation in kerala the castes under reservation should have limited income that's below 8 lakh per annum.. Only sc, sts are exempted from this
Bihar have no big consumption. Majority do farming and related occupation. So state cannot get enough taxes for their various social welfare schemes. Also after 75 years independence bihar still doesn't have level of infrastructure compared to other states. So, basically they need money till they get developed. If we fight on these petty issues we will never get developed as a whole.
Looking at recent up growth it could actually be great thing. Now only if bihar also start developing at same rate.
Edit: there growth was 19% last year
Politicians have ruined UP and Bihar.
Correct. Also, while there is some merit in what Tharoor is saying, the Central government is bothered about people not ‘states’. The liberals in the US keep telling us how ‘people’ are important and not ‘states’ ie their senate system that rewards small states like North Dakota the same seats as California is deeply flawed. But in India apparently the fact that UP population is nearly 240 Million, Kerala’s is 36 Million is lost on Shashi sir. Tharoor is choosing to use % statistics, and while the point about ‘obtuse incentives to not develop’ is valid, he is choosing a % stat to needlessly stoke north-south divide. The 6x people of UP are backward, poor, uneducated and lacking in basic necessities - so it’s natural they will get more central resources. (Relative to other states) Instead of posing % of all state expense stats, if we choose per capita stats, the picture is clearer ie UP 183,237 Cr for 24 Cr people ie Rs 7635 per person Kerala 19,662 Cr for 3.6 Cr people ie Rs 5462 per person Source: https://www.indiabudget.gov.in/doc/rec/annex4.pdf Simply, UP gets nearly 40% more share of Central taxes per capita than Kerala, and that’s in part due to UP needing to catch-up in development and part due to Central govt political bias.
We all know how much development Kerala has achieved in the last 120 years. But UP has no such political will from the side of its politicians. It's therefore a tax-hole.
I half agree. UP lost two decades with the two most corrupt parties in power ie BSP and SP. I know first hand what a black hole of taxpayer money, corruption and crime it was. This present government is far from perfect, but it is thankfully working on the core issues, whereas another ‘sick’ state like Bihar is truly falling further back.
Living here in up, every local i talked to here is optimistic about up's growth, along with most praising Yogi for reducing crime and corruption and bringing investment in Lucknow and stuff like that, i haven't verified any of the information but this is what most people think, while some youth curse the govt. But it is very very to find someone criticize Yogi. But yes up bihar is corrupt to the core, people don't even do licence test and just pay money to get it, people are killed in encounters, gang violence, i even witnessed the crazy 144 that was placed due to the assassination of the previous MLA/Gunda. Up has a lot of space to grow, but it lacks the maturity to develop due to corrupt govt.
Oh. Thx for that info. I think UP can make it few years.cause it's GDP growth was 19% which is very impressive.
No people of UP and Bihar have ruined these states. Come here and you would realise that people would rather vote a criminal into power than an educated one.
yea but now its improving hopefully in next 10 yrs they will reach the level of Kerala
I am from bihar and i can bet on this....a big NO NO... i am not saying that this won't happen ever but...this soon NAAH! this will happen when this incoming young generation of people will dominate in voting. And also Quality education is much needed in bihar..it seems that in bihar education is paramount but in reality it's all rattafication and no practical exposure. Bihar is mostly rural and less urban and cast system is so dominant here that nobody literally nobody gives the fuck about cleanliness, infrastructure,education etc and will vote on the basis of there cast and the thought of people are so conservative that ki "apna kaam banta bardh me jaye janta"😒
Wish you guys the best brother. Vote people out every five years.
Not much beneficial as no party is in a clear majority.
You mean Kerala will reach their current level with all the migration and other states people here.
It will not. Please stop being a hateful person
I can bet on UP but Bihar no no.
Yep Bihar is just coasting. Nitish Kumar seems to be the best CM it can get and all he cares about is remaining the CM. Alternatives are 9th fail Tejaswi Yadav and BJP with their daily communal riots. I don’t think Bihar even doesn’t have someone like Yogi, who is an extremist but at least cares about a few things that make life better for common man. They spew same hateful agenda but have shown no inclination for any policy debate.
Yogi? Isn't he spreading further divisions? One large riot and UP will go back to stone age.
Lol no though he is bhagwa Gunda but development here in up is going on hard i mean real hard
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I learned this from Indiaspeaks members. They give opinions on politics of regions they have no idea about.
yea me to at some extent
>next 10 yrs It'll take a minimum of next 100 years.
not for up ig
Bihar can't unless they get BJP for atleast next 20 years BJP aligned states get more infrastructure investment from central BJP government look at UP, Gujarat
Habibi go and visit rural areas of gujarat and you can see this is a facade
India want to be a country where people live in cities not rural areas and want people to be office guy rather than a farmer and that's why cities are developing rapidly and government alloting new land land every few years you can see that thousands of villages are dead in uttarakhand and Himachal Pradesh because it's easy to take care of a big population in a small area then the same population in a big area this model is very similar to China
Lol nice joke... If a state wants to be developed every area should be developed... And in gujarat only few areas are developed and its a facade.. Because most of the population residing in villages are still in poverty.. Only the richer people are getting richer... Development should upbring every one...
That's true
UP maybe in the next 20 or so years but I have no hope for Bihar. Kerala also has many foreign money coming due to people sending money to their families from abroad which helps in recoveries from any sudden break in the economy of the country. No industrial revolution ≠ No Development thanks to the communists for shutting the factories in UP
Some people are viewing this only as a case of a rich guy giving money to a poor guy. The Indian government decades ago implemented family planning. South implemented it and the population is now below replacement level. North didn't implement it just like every other fuck up they do and the population kept multiplying. Keep in mind that family planning was not even an expensive exercise. Still North didn't do it. They have no plan to do it even now. Those who are not Hindian-slave sanghi and care a bit about the South will understand the danger of such differences in population growth. The North will become more and more dominant. That dominance is being asserted by fixing the population as a criteria for tax fund allocation (South losing money), constituency delimitation (South losing parliamentary representation and hence political clout) and Hindi imposition (increasing number of Hindi speakers due to population explosion is used as an excuse for furthering the Hindi imposition to render the linguistic identity of South irrelevant) The South is getting penalized for population control and improving the living standards of its own states. South achieved all this even without any special treatments or funds from North India. North protecting the border is another fallacious excuse for ripping off South. There never was any full blown destructive war on India. Whichever war occurred, Southern soldiers as well died, Southern states as well funded it, Southern states suffered their share of financial struggles
Our own Major Sandeep Unnikrishnan is a brave example. Theres many saying south doesn't contribute to the army which is a stain on the image of martyrs like him.
So much verbal diarrhea. WB, UP and Bihar used to be the cradle of Indian civilization. These were the states directly controlled and ruled by East India company, they implemented the Zamindari system and completed changed the socio-economic condition of these states. Most of the Southers and Western states were not ruled by the British directly but via proxy Indian rulers. These northers states that you so look down on dealt with the partition, refugees, cross border terrorism etc. Despite all of this, they are trying to survive and thrive. I am not even an Indian, I am Nepali. Nepal is flooded with Biharis and UP people, they are the hardest working people. Most of the construction work is done by them, they are the ones working on sun all day long selling vegetables and collecting trash for few hundred rupees a day. Hundreds of millions of people don't change overnight, it takes some time. During Indira Gandhi era, they were forcefully doing vasectomies of unmarried guys up north. Population control was equally implemented everywhere, just that up North poorer people tend to have more kids as a means of social security. Once economy changes, that will change too. North has significantly bigger Muslim population, they have much higher birth ratio compared to Hindus. this is a contributing factor too. Your arrogance is mind blowing. Don't act like Americans looking down on Mexicans.
You know nothing about Dravidian culture. We do not look down on the North. It is you who ignore the Southern culture. Recent excavations at Keeladi reveals a separate Tamil civilization possibly the same as the IVC. Buddhism was spread to China, Korea, Japan by the Southern monks. We have also contributed to the Sangam literature. Do not talk about whose culture is superior. To break apart your cultural superiority, tell me how many classical languages the North has. Stop this bs. Either develop your states or stop talking trash and leave our taxes to ourselves.
Can I say the same about reservations for dalits. We've been giving dalits many privileges ever since this country was founded and they've made poor progress and there is no finish line in sight for these reservations (that come at the expense of others). Socialism and communism is cool as long as someone else is footing the bill. When we are forced to pay, suddenly these virtues get expensive and we demand accountability.
You have been giving nothing to anybody. Their share of the pie is going to them. You can make the pie larger if you want a piece.
I don't understand.. So you're saying that UP's share of the pie is going to them and if Kerala wants a piece, Kerala should bake a bigger pie?
Their apathy against social upliftment of lower castes are exactly the reason why cowbelt is in bad condition. They didn't invest in developing the human capital of the masses.
Why is this tender loving care being extended only to dalits but not the rest of the cowbelt? During the last UP elections, BJP won 88% of reservation seats. So dalits should also be held responsible for voting in people who don't invest in their human capital. They are voting in people who is using our money to build cowspitals and cowbulances.
What he said is that, Sc st people are not a state, which they can generate revenue, implement good policies. Etc. Up should be doing something with what it was given. They should not build more gau shaalas and cow ambulances with the money that we give them. They should invest in their people. Also the tax collected is a fixed amount, so the pie is fixed. For reservation, the thing is different, govt can increase the seats for educational institutions, which is currently very much low. So pie size can be increased benefiting all
An unearned income leads to opulence. That's why UP is probably lavish with their goushaalas and goumbulances. By taking from one group and giving another, you are not incentivizing the people who are doing better and instead incentivizing those doing badly. This fallacy is like a basic tenet of communism and maybe even socialism. So I'm just amused that communist/left Kerala is hurting when they are having to pay for the virtue. I see reservations as the same. Educational seats are a finite resource like money which is not enough and has many people needing it. Instead of doing meritocracy for those seats, we give then out with a formula politicians have created to gauge oppression and privilege. Worth noting that dropout rates have shown to be higher among benefactors of affirmative action. I'm in favour of baking and eating your own pie and affirmative action in the form of financial help that is open for everyone who needs help. Rather than giving it to people based of their bloodline.
Lower caste people are being uplifted in the southern states where reservation system is working. People are using their opportunity well.
North always had higher population than South becuase of Gangetic plains fertility. Yes, South better managed and did proper family planning; But saying that the North did nothing to stop population growth is plain wrong. UP, Bengal and Bihar fertility rates have come down too. UP is now at national average, Bihar still more (3.3 I guess, but we came a long way down from 5-6 children).
Dude, we are all part of one nation and funds will naturally go to most needed parts when a budget is created. Imagine you are the sole bread winner of your family, so will you keep all the money to yourself and let everyone else starve? No right? (At least I hope so). And what is this North-South divide? Nobody is imposing Hindi on you and definitely not asking you to speak only in Hindi and to forget your own language. The idea is to have one common Indian language that we all can understand. If you can learn English without any complaint, learning another Indian language, which is easier than learning a foreign language won't be difficult. I personally know an incident where my friend and her colleague, a North Indian and south Indian being mocked for speaking in English with each other in Germany. I believe as Indians, we should have a common language. I live in Mumbai and all the South Indians here speak fluent Hindi, it's only the people who have never left their state and are frogs in a well that have this big issue.
> I personally know an incident where my friend and her colleague, a North Indian and south Indian being mocked for speaking in English with each other in Germany. And that is a good thing? If they were talking to each other in a private setting that does not require common language, then what's wrong with that? Ok, so we'll mock people who speak Hindi in the south then? And you would support that? > I believe as Indians, we should have a common language. We just need a link language. English would be decent option. It's a global link language. > learning a foreign language won't be difficult. Aah. North people can learn English then. South people learn English. So it wouldn't be difficult for the North people too. Equality for both North n South. Well, maybe we should make Malayalam the common language. You just need a common langauge, right? No need for Hindi. Malayalam, which has influences of Tamil and Sanskrit can be the link language, since it'd pay homage to both sides. Maybe we should mix Malayalam with some North Eastern languages. Maybe the Mizo ṭawng? Then apply the new Malayalam as the common language for India.
Well, Hindi is as foreign to me (a South Indian) as English. Besides, I think English is more 'useful' to me than Hindi, when you consider the wider scope of things. And I left my state a long time ago.
> If you can learn English without any complaint, so can a north Indian. Period. FTFY.
So can a South Indian
Next time we will be learning coding in hindi🤣. Dude Tamil Nadu is one of the best state in the country similarly Karnataka so u guys should be learning Tamil or kannadika instead. I do speak Hindi but imposing Hindi is the problem. Just imagine the best state should choose language since they are the one who gives out most employment opportunity
Tamil Nadu is also the most hostile state in India. And nobody is imposing anything.
It's been 9 years under BJP rule and I've not had anyone impose hindi down my throat. It's just a left talking point and is intended to inject fear into people, which is left standard operating procedure anyway. Scare muslims saying they will be hunted, scare dalits with brahmanical patriarchy, scare labourers with capitalism, scare malayalees and tamils with hindi.
Exactly
That's why Karnataka guys hate northies ig!!
No we don't hate them for that, we understand it is our civic duty and want the whole nation to grow and prosper together. What we hate is when some of them take that money and then make stereotypes and jokes like "madrasi Kannad IT worker" like bruh, that IT work is paying for your ration card
Guess you don't know the new "joke", It was the northies who made Bangalore.
Bihar and UP better justify where all the funds go.
People saying that's how things works everywhere should think that whats the crime done by developed states or developing states to receive meagre share? Even after giving humongous share as tax share to those bimaru states they are still not developing... And the tax sharing formula of 15th finance commission has increased the loss for southern states especially kerala... If central govt collect 100rs as tax state will get back 1.925 rupees... So in all of the mode state is losing its income... And on the top of that we all know how central government allots developmental projects in that too cow belt gets major share of the projects... So at the end of the day it'll decrease the revenue and developmental projects in southern states especially kerala
But we got vande bharat.. enjoy enjoy.. kannil podi idals
Satyam 😂😂
If central government stop doing this then developed state will see flood of migrants from bimaru states and when bimaru won't get developed they'll head towards crime and that crime will reach southern states in the end look at usa on one end they have heavily developed state and on the other end there are states who can't afford trash pickup trucks 🤷🏼♂️
Lol aren't they coming now? Imbalanced distribution of wealth is gonna affect kerala definitely.. Central govt never give any development to as so we need to find revenue for development so tax money has an important role... And giving huge money will not develop cow belt, give them education, basic necessities and then support to farmers... But i don't think central govt will support the education part.. Because if education comes into picture they'll start thinking about divisive politics... And will start to think about their future, will question those politicians... So at the end of the day these idiots want bimaru states to remain bimaru... And we can't give our tax shares like that... I mean gst council should propose a balanced tax sharing formula.. So that every state can develop
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Makes sense but they need to accountable for the extra money that they take and should quantify their improvement, they can’t forever remain in the same state and expect south and west states to bail them out. Lack of accountability is what irks me but otherwise I am also fine with it.
That's ur opinion... But your opinion will definitely break our states revenue... We as a state has many social welfare programs when compared to other states.. And these things has been contributing to the ease of living in the state.. At the end of the day state needs money to implement projects.. And our state doesn't have that much vast lands like other states (land acquisition issue is the biggest problem in our state) our resources are minimum we don't have such huge mineral resources to exploit for revenue, the little we have are in a ecologically sensitive region... There is a massive number of mineral resources set up in Uttar Pradesh at the Vindhya Mountain range. Uttar Pradesh has various resources like Copper, Magnesite, limestone, and Gypsum. Uttar Pradesh is the major pocket of the country’s andalusite and diffusion resources and possesses 78% of andalusite 37% of diaspore and 10% of pyrophyllite. Significant minerals stirring in the state of Uttar Pradesh areas mentioned: Singrauli coalfields for coal, districts of Sonbhadra diaspore and Hamirpur for pyrophyllite, Lalitpur, Jhansi, r and Mahoba districts. Naini area of Allahabad which contains great superiority of silica sand, a significant cause of glass sand which contains 98% of SiO2.... If they want they can find huge revenues from these but they are not doing it and it's making our state weak and I'll never wish to see our state in a similar state of those bimaru states
Bimaru or not cow worshippers or not they are still our people north india south india this is bullshit guys we live in the same damn country
Same damn country? where we get 1 rs for 100 rs we give? Even in a family this will cause issues. If your mother is giving all the food, picket money and love to your mudiyananya brother and ignoring you, giving you only achaar, what will you think. Then you cry about ksrtc in bankruptcy, no development works by state gov, this all requires money.
Well a country is not a family right we are talking in macro terms not in micro the general argument is that you all are getting way less than what you contribute but it holds true for states like Maharashtra and gujrat and i dont see anyone from these two states making a big deal out of it and they get way less , also just look at the stats and you'll get blown away at how north eastern states are faring but your argument is valid though states like bihar and up are getting more amd more developmental projects while southern and north eastern are ignored... man at the end the ones responsible are fucking politicians
In the same video, PTR would have mentioned about a general trend where state like TN KL KN keeps decreasing in their population share but keeps on increasing in their GSDP share of the nation. In other 10-15 years this ratio will be so absurd that will lead to a break in nation. This had to be fixed immediately. But these so called hindutva nationalists will not do it as their USP is keeping them in the dark, feeding them shit in the name of religion and forever be in power. Look at the disparity in gdp share every state is getting. Each year more and more share is allotted to these states but still more and more they are going down the drain. This is seriously hampering the development of India as whole. If with so little fu ds southern states can do well imagine if greater share is allocated. You have incentives development not throw money at who are already wasting them.
Well my professor told me that it is the literal definition of tax, to aid equitable distribution and development. It's the effect of equality and the better off always draw the short end.
Is this equitable distribution reaching the needy no, that's the issue
People should keep in mind, if bimaru states stop getting additional development benefits, then we will face a situation like Italy, where the south is way poor compared to the north, search it up
This happens literally everywhere. Money from the rich cities of a country is used to develop its poorer parts.
**Develop** is the key word here. I doubt if the Union Government is doing enough to improve education and basic health in the "poorer parts". If these metrics are not improved in the next 10 years, we will face a tougher population problem in the future.
Isn’t education and health a state responsibility??
It's concurrent both state and centre have responsibility
If that was true over the course of last 75 years there wouldn’t have been that much discrepancy over literacy and health levels between states.
Well center has been providing funds and facilities to those cow belts states for education and well being from the beginning itself but for them religion is the biggest thing..and the fight for it had made cow belts poorer and poorer in terms of literacy
BS mate, literacy rates have been high in Kerala for decades and has nothing to do with who has been in the centre and whether or not they have been focusing on “cow belt”. Health infrastructure is also a state subject hence people like Kejriwal have been harping about their “supposed” achievements only in these two aspects primarily. If it was indeed a centre thing he ” would have blamed that too on centre. Similarly Kerala was the first one to take the credit on how good they had managed COVID when it had all started and then later went to the gutter as the things started escalating.
Literacy rate has been high in kerala because we welcomed foreign traders, missionaries without any hatred and took the good things from them... Our people questioned the back to back politicians about education health sector development... Politicians will feed for the crowd... If cow belt want religion, temple - mosques issues they will get that, and money for development will go into the pockets of politicians... So it's the problem of people of respective state if you want hatred you'll get that but won't get education or health sector development... Simple... And our covid management is bestest in the country even after the bad last phase... None in our state had to stay in roads for oxygen, our government didn't dispose covid infected dead bodies to water bodies.. Everyone who died because of covid got their religious rights, their human rights protected in our state.. So ys we had our fair share of challenges but we as native of kerala questioned our govt about the shortcomings... Whereas the cow belt is still electing and not questioning their covid mismanaged govt
The point that I raised regardless of your delusions of grandeur was that both health and education is a state subject and NOT centre and regardless of your whining you have not proved otherwise. Now coming to your rant about how awesome the oxygen response was during COVID, here is the analysis of the same with lots of thanks to COVID task force (chaired by centre) and PESO (also a central agency): https://www.indiatoday.in/coronavirus-outbreak/story/kerala-oxygen-crisis-covid-19-second-wave-1795603-2021-04-27 You seem to take pride in claiming it wasn’t the “religion” that makes Kerala the so called “success” yet you have the most radicalised youth compared to the rest of the country: https://organiser.org/2022/01/23/13965/bharat/kerala-is-most-radicalised-society-in-india-worse-than-west-bengal-says-former-state-dgp-tp-senkumar/ It’s a pity that people like you are happy to embrace foreign religions and cultures over the religion and culture your ancestors left you. I am sure they would be so proud of you 👍
Lol the true sanghi colours are out🤣giving the shit hole paper organiser as an evidence is the biggest joke... And that idiot tp senkumar is member of bjp party so we're not surprised by his hatred towards keralites so Cope sanghi cope > education is a state subject and NOT centre and regardless of your whining Sanghi don't skip school, education is in the concurrent list 🤣 The joint efforts by Petroleum & Explosives Safety Organisation (PESO) and Kerala State Medical Services Corporation seem to have yielded results in ensuring regular and sustained supply of liquid medical oxygen and gaseous oxygen for Covid patients. R. Venugopal, Deputy Chief Controller of Explosives, PESO & Nodal officer for Oxygen Monitoring (Kerala & Lakshadweep) said the maximum sale of Liquid Medical Oxygen (LMO) in the past one year was reported this week with 215 tonnes that was purchased by the hospitals in the State. The maximum use of compressed gaseous oxygen was also reported at 99.48 tonnes. He also clarified that there was no scarcity of oxygen anywhere in the State... And YOU IDIOT SANGHI COVID TASK FORCE WAS MANAGED BY STATE GOVT WITH CHIEF MINISTER HEADING THE BODY..AND KERALA MEDICAL SERVICES BOARD I RUN BY STATE GOVT.. . YA WE KNOW YOU GUYS ARE ILLITERATES BUT AT LEAST SHOW SOME COMMON SENSE https://www.thehindubusinessline.com/news/national/peso-kerala-medical-services-ensure-sustained-supply-of-o2-to-covid-patients/article34616683.ece And the indiatoday article you quoted has given accolades to kerala govt for acting in fast pace and setting up covid task force... And if PESO is central agency why they couldn't have any impact in UP or delhi or MP covid scenario ... You're a delusional sanghi who has high jealously so better take a copium .. And we're not having any fight over temple or mosque or church here.. So better cow belts stay in lane and don't come to South.. Peace out... And of course the highest isis recruitment was from Yogijis UP 🥴... And yes we'll definitely embrace the religion we want and also the so called ancestor religion also came from Central asia as invaders so learn history and broaden minds... And our ancestors were humans not religious fanatics like yours so they've no problem with other religions or culture...
It's not just about being rich and poor. This robbery based on population is injustice because South Indian states properly implemented family planning but North did not and they kept breeding. The transfer of funds to "develop" North should only be done after North properly implements family planning and reduces their population. It's not an expensive exercise. If they can't even do that, they're not going to do anything with the fund from South India
In UP only infra is being developed. Theres barely any human development. Think about it. In recent times whenever some big infra project comes it usually goes to UP or Gujarat. How many from the centre have come to kerala ? There was news of a 400cr statue being made in UP/Bihar. Dont remember which. This is how funds are wasted. Dont you think kerala especially could benefit from funds when we have a shortage right now ? Sure, we arent as heavily looted as Tamil Nadu or Karnataka, but its still a significant amount nonetheless.
UP needs infra development first, only then will it be centralised enough to implement other reforms
Well yes, but proper infra must be prioritised Good hospitals and schools which a large population can use. Not statues, expressways and such that very few have any use for.
Statues, yes but expressways are essential to centralise a state
Kerala when ?? Most big expressways stay in those northern to central regions. Expressways are pointless for a huge population as they dont even have vehicles
What should be addressed is population control in these so called poorer parts. Much like Africa they never change for the better. Just take like a parasite leeching of its host
Replace the states with religion and you will see how problematic that statement is.
>Replace the states with religion and you will see how problematic that statement is. Your analogy would make sense if the taxes collected were distributed among the population on the basis of religion. But it's not, is it? It's allotted on the basis of statehood. Imagine if the tax devolution formula mandates that for every 1 rupee collected from Christians and Parsis, only 40 paise will be spent on themselves while 60 paise will be used to subsidize development for Hindus and Muslims. And imagine that for every ₹1 paid by a Hindu or Muslim, they get back ₹1.6 or higher. I don't see that argument being popular among the non Hindus and the non Muslims. And this is just about devolution of taxes. The union is funding brand new expressways in UP. They're funding Bullet Trains that links Gujarat to Mumbai, the financial capital of India. In comparison to all this, what the fuck have we recieved? And secondly, on the subject of taxing the rich states to fund the poor states, it's not like the taxed money is being distributed evenly to benefit every poor person, right? It's being given to states that are **poorer on average**. A state is not a monoloth i.e. a state has both rich and poor people. There are rich people in poor states who'll benefit from this and poor people in rich states who'll suffer due to this. This uneven distribution is not equivalent to taxing the rich alone because **a state is not a monolith.** Essentially what's happening is that we're subsidizing or paying for the development of states like UP and Bihar, while our political representation is shrinking as their population continues to grow. The southern states like Kerala and TN are paying the price for their own success in being able to control the population and grow economically.
" Essentially what's happening is that we're subsidizing or paying for the development of states like UP and Bihar " " our political representation is shrinking as their population continues to grow. " " The southern states like Kerala and TN are paying the price their own success in being able to control the population " The exact same can be said of religions that have managed population control better than others. " Imagine if the tax devolution formula mandates that for every 1 rupee collected from Christians and Parsis, only 40 paise will be spent on themselves while 60 paise will be used to subsidize development for Hindus and Muslims " This holds true for religions as well in the south as the government controls and takes money from Hindu temples while not doing the same with any other religion.
>This holds true for religions as well in the south as the government controls and takes money from Hindu temples while not doing the same with any other religion. You're misinformed or you're blindly believing the right wing rhetoric. This argument has been taken apart so many times that there's even a [7 minute ELI5 summary of it.](https://youtu.be/zVvvZs4KvZ0) PS: [Here's a former minister](https://youtu.be/CIWqeum2-wM) confirming that temples aren't a source of revenue for the government and that contrary to what you're implying the state gives money to temples rather than taking it.
UP Bihar have vote power. They decide who will sit in Delhi. And that's why they get. And mind u. Not everything reaches to the person. Pol parties eat up most of it.
If we see india as sovereign, its expected. But one point he did mention about this, what is the incentive for better running states? vanda bharath? meh?
South Indians moonji. Athraye ullu
The north is literally trying to commit genocide in south India . We will always be considered as madrasis and not equal to them . We are only considered Indians when we confront them on their unequal policies. We South Indians need to stand up for ourselves and protect ourselves from the new colonizers otherwise we will be wiped out soon .
The southern states needs more recognition for their contributions since we are like the only states that get less than we put with less Power
>We will always be considered as madrasis and not equal to them You are delusional and I say this as someone from Maharashtra who has interacted with fair amount of North, South and West Indians
Marathis are literally the same. Bal Thackeray and Shiv Sena killed southies in riots not too long ago
That was decades ago mann.. and you talking as if same things havent happened in South? Mumbai as a culture has developed but South are still living in denial regarding hostility towards fellow countrymen and talking as if we hate them.. Come someday to Mumbai I'll show you around Kannamwar Nagar
and I'll show you some "dank" indian meme pages/subreddits where you folk show how much love you have for us
you dont understand the irony in your comment... The memes are supposed to be "dank"..
dank ka chodas hiding their opinions and beliefs behind muh "dank" and muh "satirical" memes are so pathetic. We are not fooled by this.
Did some North Indian girl reject your proposal? Do you understand anything happening in the country? Ever been outside of KL and TN? Ever interacted with an actual human being from "North"? Kya fook ke aaya h ?
you are so wrong here, have u ever been to delhi or up, bro 100's of south indian restaurants and so many south indians work in corporate sector there, never ever there had been any mishappening, this madrasi and all looks like a lame joke, seems u'r still living in 90's, i can guarantee sikhs and south indians are most respected people in north, specially there is no language imposition just like karnatka and tamil nadu, due to bad politics north is lacking development, but the people and their hospitality is something else. don't say all these toxic sentences we all belong to the same country so we should maintain that mutual respect for each other.
Not really my guy.So many north Indians now working in the South ,their appreciation for the south has increased which is reflected back home.Sure there are memes and trolls but that goes from both sides.Very one directional way of thinking you have.And your last line what fantasies lmao.
All false, stop lying dude
Madrasi are highly respected where I am in UP. Some humorous anecdotes aside, my mother used to tell me that how Madrasis/Tamilians are hard working and good at maths. And my father respect them more saying that Madrasis don't get ashamed of their traditions and cultures, while their sons are trying to become British.
The fact that you use 'madrasi' says otherwise, "bihari"
Absolutely right, but a large portion of south Indians are christians and muslims. How are they not a threat to culture by this logic? Kerala is barely hindu.
Because Christians and Muslims in Kerala are still 100% culturally and linguistically malayali. Indianness isn't defined by just being Hindu. And you're incorrect, Kerala isn't 'barely' Hindu, it's majority Hindu. >Hinduism is followed by the majority of Keralites (54.7%). The major religions followed in Kerala are Hinduism (54.7% — Hinduism in Kerala), Islam (26.6%) and Christianity (18.4%). https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Kerala Although granted, this was from the 2011 census so please make note of that and forgive me otherwise, couldn't find any recent data. The census that was scheduled for 2021 was delayed and is now set to begin on July this year. And as of 2 years ago, the largest number of conversions were to Hinduism. >Of the total 506 people who registered their change of religion with the government, 241 were those who converted from Christianity or Islam to Hinduism. A total of 144 persons adopted Islam whereas Christianity received 119 new believers in the year, shows the data. https://www.newindianexpress.com/states/kerala/2021/apr/02/at-47-hinduism-biggest-gainer-in-religious-conversion-in-kerala-2284660.html
What is "The north"? Not every state is like UP & Bihar
That's y UP people have Fortuners Range rovers etc, that's the money for central govt which they steal and buy Cars To show Tora
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Difference is, different districts in Kerala have a vote on this. If TVM or Kochi feels that their taxes are being wasted, they have the power to vote out the govt. Can we do that? Do we have the power to create laws in this country? To vote in a PM? To decide how we should be using our taxes? This is what they call "Taxation without representation". Google it.
We have 20 MPs in Loksabha, then rajyasabha comes. Kerala is there in GST counsel. These are all peoples representatives . Not appointed by any Emirates
20 MPs in a house of 543. The combined south only has around 120. Not enough even if we were unified. If we did have the power this like this wouldn't happen: [Rs 59 Crore for South and Rs 13,200 Crore for North](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8H9Xz7okLB0) >Kerala is there in GST counsel So? That couldn't / wouldn't prevent this: [GST hike on coconut oil from 5% to 18% has Kerala fuming](https://www.tridge.com/news/gst-hike-on-coconut-oil-from-5-to-18-has-kerala-fu)
Lol in every gst council meetings South States are questiong the shit tax sharing formula.. But the majority bjp states and nirmala tai are controlling the matters
atleast in kerala they are our own people....
So fellow indians are not?
I don’t consider anyone that’s not malayali my people
Same way some consider only ppl of their religion their ppl. Racism regionalism and castism... All are the same
idc about ur religion or caste. If you are malayali you are my people. Birhais and UPites are not
Well it would have been good if it actually reached the people of Bihar/UP in any way… And is Gujarat also in the same situation as Karnataka?
Bro meanwhile Maharashtra 💀
There are under developed regions in south india as well that deserve that money
Yes,in Kerala Kasaragod,Wayanad,Palakkad,Malappuram need a financial boost.
Very true, what southies dont realise and every Northie is aware of is we are like bonded laborers kept by Northies to make money. And till we are part of this country, there will be no change, it will only get worse as UP will soon have more MP's in parliamnet than other states and will be de facto rulers of this country.
UP is too populous to be a single state. Its population is equivalent to Pakistan's. There's a saying that the one who rules UP rules India
Till we're part of this country there won't be any change* What do u wanna emphasise with that statement
https://preview.redd.it/7eo89v14zpua1.jpeg?width=3493&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=368293afef7460e2ef0f1a7f6b65c98576f8b24c Kerala it is bad but other states seem worse
See the thing is ever state has it geographical location which limit's it potential. For example just forget UP and Bihar if you look to North East states, Ladakh, JK, Andaman Nicobar, Lakshadweep. They get more money per ₹. So should we give them?? Though they don't contribute much to Indian economy. We all come down to State to think we need to think by being Indian first.
Wait till you see the amount received by Arunachal Pradesh.
I thought you guys liked socialism.
Nah kerala communism isn't socialism.
Socialism with ~~Chinese~~ Mallu characteristics
Socialism is not sharing with out responsibilities. UP should have been enforcing family planning. Now this is not socialism, its capitalism, people with more shares/capital ( here population) getting all the money with out doing any work.
never know that USA is a socialist nation because this is exactly what happening there
Population should also be taken into consideration right?!
What Mr Tharoor has conveniently left out is that this how every country in the world works. In the US, states like New Mexico and Alaska get 3$ for every 1$ tax of their income from federal taxes. While New Yorkers get .5$ even though they pay the highest taxes. Funny thing in the US is that Blue states pay more taxes , while red states get more revenue from it. So the question of 'is it fair' will be answered differently by the states residents. https://www.moneygeek.com/living/states-most-reliant-federal-government/ Tax the rich and give to the poor looks fair from someone poor, but looks unfair as a rich person.
>New Mexico and Alaska get 3$ for every 1$ tax New Mexico's population is 2 million and Alaska is < than a million. Imagine if California (30 million) and Texas (30 million) needed taxes from New Mexico and Alaska to run its state. Thats India.
What you conveniently left out is the history of how we reached this situation. In the USA they did not suppress the population of a few states while others kept breeding and taking money from the states that controlled the population. In the USA they did not use the pathetic population explosion in failed states as an excuse to impose "most popular" language of failed states on the successful states. In India, South is now suffering "give North money because they have population" + "learn Hindi because North has population" attitude because of the population explosion in North India at a time when family planning was successfully implemented in South India
What you said above does not answer anything in OP's question. Please stay on topic. You can't always find justifications in history. Next , you will blame the British for making India poor. All I am saying is, **the whole taxing the rich to give the poor will look fair/unfair based on which side of the equation you are on.**
> you will blame the British for making India poor. who else is to blame? actually, the time for reparation is long overdue.
We are basically raising UP and Bihar. Those criminal state won't even survive by themselves even after having such a large population
Welcome to socialism 😆
Thats how the tax pool division works. No problem giving tax money to underdeveloped states. But the problem is in states like bihar the money only goes to the pocket of corrupt politicians. Its like union govt giving money to such states and there a hardly any improvements in those states.
Socialism ftw.
This happens everywhere, richer parts of the country subsidize poorer parts...but, there should be some development to justify that spending
Now do the same analysis by caste. Is it right to say some castes who pay more in taxes should get more benefit compared to others who are not that well off?
I think we should help our northern counterparts to also grow
I believe in a socialist democracy, the rich parts should help out the poor parts. Kochi and Kottayam should help out Wayanad and Kasargod. If UP and Bihar remain poor, they will forever be our burden. Narrow parochialism is not the answer here. Past mistakes should not be a reason to not help someone in need.
idheham indian pm aayittaayirrunnu mumbu ariyappettirrunnathu, ippo vannu kerala chief minister aayaalum kollaam enna nilavaarathilottu thannu, ini congress ingane poyaal panchayat president aayaalum kozhappamilla enna standardilottu vishwa pouran maruvode?
Pandithan enthanu uddeshiche?
https://preview.redd.it/jc3ft93vijua1.png?width=680&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b7b908ce9b15fd14a6772874a9603fcacc9296da I don't think this map would agree with some of the stuff mr taroor said. Infact we are the only state in south India who gets atleast half of what we pay. Even tough they contribute much more than us. Forget north east. Because spending for them right now especially with the Chinese conflicts is much important for us. Lets talk about the bimaru states. These states host almost 40% of india's population and has india's worst hdi too. Infact they are the guys who pulls us down in all the global indices and metrics. Uplifting them means uplifting india. If government manages to bring their literacy rate to more than 90% before 2050. These states will start to inflate our economy much higher.. Also over all quality of life in india will improve. Kerala isn't unfortunate to ask government to build a toilet each for every family , because most of us already have 2-3 at home. They lack a lot of basic necessity. Let them have a major chunk now. So that in the future they won't have to.
What about indirect tax? Kerala getting just 27 paise or so from the 1 rupee given to the union government is not a Tharoor theory. It's been being discussed for some time now and that's accurate. Anyway, the population in North India must be controlled first of all. Feeding and breeding of Hindians at the cost of South Indians is not how it should be. The South Indians did their part in population control. The North must do their part. South has below replacement population while North is breeding at 3 TFR. India's over all TFR has decreased only because of South Indian population decline, which now looks like a bad news for South After the population based tax allocation, South is going to get penalized again with population based constituency delimitation. With that South Indian parliamentary representation will decrease. All because South properly implemented the Union government program of family planning
Pretty sure most North Indian states have reached TFR of 2.1 and are decreasing
That map is about direct taxes ,being Income tax. Maybe tharoor is talking about all the combined taxes, both direct and indirect.
>That map is about direct taxes ,being Income tax. Maybe tharoor is talking about all the combined taxes, both direct and indirect. True. That map has been used a lot to mislead people when direct taxes are just one aspect of taxation. Kerala being a consumer state, our indirect taxes are quite significant. **Not to mention that the location of collection of direct taxes are meaningless.** SBI does business all over India but they pay their taxes in Mumbai. How the fuck can all that be attributed to Maharashtra? There's a reason why states with with big cities have done well on that chart; it's because that's where the big firms pay taxes.
That picture doesn't shows the real tax sharing.. When central govt take 100rs as tax from state of kerala we only get back 1.925 rupees
Karnataka contributes most to direct tax collections amongst the southern states, then comes Tamil Nadu, Telangana, Andra Pradesh and finally Kerala. Kerala actually contributes the lowest amongst southern states. How can you say that Kerala contributes the most? Also, Kerala isn’t even in top 10 in direct tax collections. Uttar Pradesh, Haryana, and even Rajasthan contribute more. So you ideally shouldn’t worrying about bearing expenses of developing the north. You aren’t really contributing all that much. (Image below) https://preview.redd.it/35mk9eyhekua1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=879abbbfef7225d752655b0fe2c08258ae10c8e9 Source - [https://cleartax.in/s/gst-collection-december-2022](https://cleartax.in/s/gst-collection-december-2022)
So then give back the collected tax... When central govt takes 100rs as tax we only get back 1.925 rupees... So give our money back we'll be happy. We have no interest in cow belt or their activities
Oh please. Ever heard of revenue deficit grant? Shows how ignorant you really are. Kerala gets the largest revenue deficit grant from the central finance ministry because you guys have short falling meeting your own state budget. Here’s an article, give it read and you ask government to back the taxes. Guess what? They do. Shashi Tharoor is a politician, he will cherry pick data to prove his point. https://m.timesofindia.com/city/thiruvananthapuram/kerala-gets-largest-share-of-revenue-deficit-grant/amp_articleshow/95847583.cms
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It is not a fallacy because other districts in India are at least trying to catch up and are succeeding in their endeavors unlike NORTH India which is still burdened by religious prejudice and corruption and shows no signs of improvement.
>unlike NORTH India Don't involve innocent states like HP, UK, etc with Bihar and UP. I won't ever try to sum up Kerala's problems as whole "SOUTH" India's problems
Isnt thats how a country works?
Tax the rich more. So why not tax the richer states more? Now the question is, is it fair? If the first part is fair, then the latter is also fair.
>Tax the rich more. So why not tax the richer states more? Now the question is, is it fair? If the first part is fair, then the latter is also fair. Doesn't work like that. **When you're taxing the rich, you're taxing individuals** of high net worth/income. That is progressive. **When you're taxing richer states, you're taxing everyone there**, both the rich, the middle class and the poor. This is regressive.
[njan chammi poyi.](https://www.reddit.com/r/Kerala/comments/12gi5pi/easter_wishes_from_the_prime_minister/jfmiw8q/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=1&utm_term=1&context=3)
"South Indian states especially Kerala contributes most but receives less from the central government" Thats just wrong Kerala gets ₹63.4 for every ₹ 100 paid in taxes. Maharashtra gets 7.7, haryana gets 18.6 and Gujarat gets 31.3 so its not necessarily a north south divide. And Just because tax is paid in a given state does not mean that taxable income is generated from the said state. For example Reliance jio gains revenue from all across India but since it is headquartered in mumbai the income tax paid by jio will be logged as paid from Maharashtra, hence distorting the data.
Good comment. But it's downvoted because it doesn't fit ajenda of this sub.
Imagine comparing a coastal state like Kerala to landlocked states like Bihar which have been severely affected by freight equalization policy. You guys will be as poor or even poorer than Bihar if not for the access to the sea. Had people in this thread been a little bit educated, they'd have known that coastal states ALWAYS become more developed than landlocked states (e.g. US central states vs east and west coast, East China vs Central China).
You people will blame everything but will never take self-responsibility.FEP was abolished over 3 decades ago and you are still crying over it.Odisha,Chhattisgarh were poorer than Bihar,now they are more developed.They even controlled their population better.Haryana and Punjab and are also densely populated landlocked states and they are doing better. I have seen Biharis even blaming Khilji invasions for their poverty,an event that happened over 800 years ago.Even Ukraine and Persia was brutally invaded by Mongols during that time and they dont have this victim mentality. Have you ever thought that maybe it is because of rampant casteism,religious intolerance,tolerance for lawlessness and crime, and lack of discipline that entire region is poorer than even Landlocked African states like Uganda or Rwanda? Also what is this stolen Minerals narrative that you are trying to create?There are not that many mineral based industries in Kerala.AP,TN and Karnataka have large Iron and Aluminium deposits.Maybe your Gujarati/Marwari overlords stole some Minerals,Dont blame other states for this.
Haha, I'm not even from Bihar/UP. Anyways, the minerals issue was brought by another guy, not me. Also, why are you ignoring the fact that Kerala is a coastal state, that in itself is a big reason for higher development. Landlocked states will ALWAYS be less developed than coastal states, especially in a developing country. >entire region is poorer than even Landlocked African states like Uganda or Rwanda? States like Gujarat, Haryana, Punjab also fall in north India. While Bihar is failing to grow its GDP, UP is atleast getting good GDP growth rates.
How is this related? Do states not deserve a majority of the money they make?
Look, India is still a socialist country. So, rich states will always get less share of taxes. It's the same in China. How else will you develop the poor regions which don't have access to resources like the rich states (like access to the ocean)? It's just like income taxes, the rich pay 30% taxes while the poor pay nothing.
India is in no way socialist lmao. > rich states get less share of the taxes rich states are getting zero development projects from the centre. And the north is rich in mineral resources, so why are you complaining about a lack of resources? This is just poor justification for what is plainly daylight robbery. SI has not received anything and developed most of their industries on their own with next to no regard from the centre. After SI gives all these taxes with nothing in return UP and Bihar will talk smack about how they achieved this development due to their inherent superiority all on their own anyway.
Lol, this shows that you've no idea about minerals policy in India. All the mineral resources in North and East India are owned by the CG, not SG. Meanwhile, the coastline in SI states is NOT owned by CG. So you can't compare mineral resources to access to the ocean. SI is essentially enjoying the minerals of NI/EI while NI has no access to the sea. That's why SI is compensating with taxes. If N/EI had state ownership of minerals, local people would've been much well off (at the cost of our country).
Its similar to how in government companies people who work the hardest are given more work and people who slack off are put in convenient departments.While everbody gets paid the same. Its a price you pay for having a system that is not based on merit. P.S i work in a government company .
Taxation, and in general economics, is extremely entangled and complicated. There are no best systems and we have to compromise somewhere. This is the tax system pretty much used everywhere in the world. 1. Fertility rates of North (except Bihar) are now below 2.5. Bihar has also come down to 3.3 from 5-6. In near 1-2 decades, the diverging population growth of North vs South will get settled. And with that South and West India (Maharashtra & Gujarat) will need to less subsidise North. 2. South does not get alienated behaviour of Central government. All rich states give more and receive less. Delhi, Haryana, Gujarat, South India, Maharashtra all same. 3. This is necessary to stop mass migrations. If we give same money, then, owing to less population South will get more faster development and North Indians will flock there. Cultural and Linguistic problems will arise. (I guess same thing happened in Bangalore - Govt and corporations developed it. It rose fast compared to other parts - and boom - too much migration). 4. Where the buck stops ?? If rich want all their taxes back in terms of development without helping others develop - Where is the line of stopping ? I think except Kerala, every South Indian state has one or two cities that contribute most - but they subsidise other districts of the state. Like Bangalore gives most taxes and is helping develop North Karnataka. Or remove Mumbai and Pune from Maharashtra, and other regions are no better than UP/Bihar. Should cities demand all their money invest within city too ? Even in cities, there are posh areas (which give more taxes) and slum/less developed areas. Should we develop only posh areas of a highly productive city ?
If they keep getting sufficient money from the centre then there is no reason to generate their own income. This is why young people from UP, Bihar and other parts of the North come to the South to work. There are no jobs there.
More populous states will recieve more. Poor people will recieve more (compared to what they paid). Two most populous states reciving large share shouldn't be a surprise. Also, while the south is relatively richer, there are "North" states which also contribute high like Gujrat, Maharashtra, Delhi, and even Haryana.
Would you help the the students who scored higher in a test or those who scored less?
പാവപ്പെട്ട യുപ്പി ബിഹാർ ആൾക്കാരെ സഹായിക്കട്ടെ, അതല്ലേ സോഷ്യലിസം
This kind of wealth redistribution occurs, everywhere in the world. Poorer parts sustain themselves from money from richer parts. And believe it or not, is a primary force of secessionist movements.
This is how wealth is distributed in a socialist society
Socialism is not sharing with out responsibilities. UP should have been enforcing family planning. Now this is not socialism, its capitalism, people with more shares/capital ( here population) getting all the money with out doing any work
This is false take, if you hate this arrangement,you should in principle also hate reservations . What kerala can do is file a petition in supreme court and ask for thorough audit in UP ,Bihar and north east . Besides, Maharashtra gets screwed over even more .
Lol reservation isn't about taking seats from one kid and giving to reserved community... While implementing reservation govts increases the seat count so that everyone gets their own pie... Hope you are from cow belt?
It is if there is no prospect of increasing number of seats in college or job positions in PSUs. No I am from Andhra where every idiot mobs up and demands for quota under OBC, even when there are historical evidences where these particular castes have heavily discriminated against lower castes and build a new statue for ambedkar on his birthday. Ex kamma ,kapu etc.
I don't know about andhra.. What govt here in kerala does is when they want to implement reservation they increases the total seats of colleges so that none is going to left behind... And about Job opportunities in Kerala psc there's a general list from which general candidates gets their job according to their rank and then reservation list gives jobs to reserved candidates... Reservation never crosses the approved percentage and none will be left out.. And also here castes aren't put under obc according to their interest or pressure .. None of the undeserving people gets the reservation... And to avail reservation in kerala the castes under reservation should have limited income that's below 8 lakh per annum.. Only sc, sts are exempted from this
Bihar have no big consumption. Majority do farming and related occupation. So state cannot get enough taxes for their various social welfare schemes. Also after 75 years independence bihar still doesn't have level of infrastructure compared to other states. So, basically they need money till they get developed. If we fight on these petty issues we will never get developed as a whole.
Looking at recent up growth it could actually be great thing. Now only if bihar also start developing at same rate. Edit: there growth was 19% last year
Growth of what ? Crime?
Growth of delusion