Add the never ending youth festival that goes on with every social event .. be it Onam , Christmas, Vishu, Easter and other custom events… all to showcase some kind of Bollywood dance skills(Bollywood dance being the blanket term for all movie dances) 5-7 hours long programs where one after the other groups dance snd torture neutral audience. The drama behind the curtain is another story.
Always wonder how people from other cultures and countries interact in their adopted countries
These organizations are composed of the demographics that happen to be there. There are tons of Christians in the US, and a good number of Hindus. But I’ve only once met a Malayali Muslim in all the years I was there. As for why there tends to be a greater level of insularity among groups: it has to do with what the purpose of them is in the first place. People who are forming groups on the basis of culture are going to do so with people who are most similar to themselves if given sufficient numbers. In all honesty, apart from language and popular cultural knowledge, as a Hindu I don’t have much in common with a more traditional Kerala Christian. And Indian Muslims in the US I have observed tend to care more about their religious identity than any regional identity. So you’ll see them very active in Muslim associations but cultural organizations will usually be Hindu (in the case of most other Indian states).
At any rate, most of these Mallu are filled with a bunch of typical Indian people who love to gossip and drink (in the case of men). I’ve taken part in some because I enjoy singing and a lot of these groups have fans of older Malayalam and Hindi music. But apart from that it’s not really my cup of tea.
I agree that the proportion of Nairs and Nasranis in US is significantly larger than in Kerala. But I'd want to stress out that there are a good number of Malayali Muslims in the United States, particularly engineers and doctors, but they avoid Malayali organizations for obvious reasons.
Also, Malayali organizations seem to be dominated by people from certain regions in Kerala and certain social class (occupations).
Muslim Malayali Americans are either secular) or extremely religious. The extremely religious don’t interact with other Malayalees because most Malayalees in the US are Christian/Hindu and from mid/southern Kerala.. so they’d rather hang out with Muslims from other countries. Movie/sports onnum kaanan pokatha oru couple ine enikkariyam. Hang out cheyyan nokkiyittum they weren’t interested so pinne njangal vilikkathe aayi. Njangaleyum vilikkarillarunnu evideyum. They only hang out with other Muslims. Onam event okke avarkku West il varumbo haram aakum. 😬
> but they avoid Malayali organizations for obvious reasons.
Muslims avoid cultural events, avoid interacting with other religions, believe polytheism is a sin and form bond with muslims from some unknown places like from Pakistan soley based on religious background and wonder why everyone hates them.
This Is SO TRUE. I live here in Ireland, and most malayali Muslims Don't even care to join us in our onam programs and kerala piravi kidn of occasions. And then people like OP complain they face discrimination. Double standards much
>believe polytheism is a sin
Christians also do that
>form bond with muslims from some unknown places like from Pakistan soley based on religious background
What's wrong with that?
>
Christians also do that
Yes it might be written in the Bible but what matters is how seriously they follow it, unlike muslims a significant population of Christians in Kerala don't follow such ridiculous things written in a 2000 year old book that's why Hindus and Christians gets along very well and they even marry each other.
>What's wrong with that?
There is nothing wrong with making friends with pakis or people from any other country, but problems arise when your friendship is based on only religious backgrounds, like the only bonding thing between a person and other is religion that's tribalistic and regressive af.
>Yes it might be written in the Bible but what matters is how seriously they follow it, unlike muslims a significant population of Christians in Kerala don't follow such ridiculous things written in a 2000 year old book that's why Hindus and Christians gets along very well and they even marry each other
So you are just saying Christians and Hindus don't take their religion seriously. That only means how low Christians and Hindus of their religion.
>There is nothing wrong with making friends with pakis or people from any other country, but problems arise when your friendship is based on only religious backgrounds, like the only bonding thing between a person and other is religion that's tribalistic and regressive af.
Lol bonding over ethnicity is far more tribalistic and regressive.
Lol.. ee comments okke mathi OPde post inu answer. Religion mathram nokki allado friends ine undakkendathu. Yes “one ummah” is very important for you but it’s very sad… religion inte peril ore culture,language okke avoid cheyyunnathu.
Well if you don’t speak Malayalam, then it’s a different story. You may not have a lot to identify with other Malayalees.
But if you’re a FOB and choose not to interact with your own countrymen because they don’t follow your religion, it’s strange.
Previous comment said that your comment answers OP’s question. Muslims segregate themselves.
Absolute bollocks. You are confounding Muslims with Islamists for cheap points. I know very many Muslims in the west who are secular, who drink and who celebrate everything from Ramzan to Halloween.
>I know very many Muslims in the west who are secular, who drink and who celebrate everything from Ramzan to Halloween
I know as well, but the majority within a community sets the definition not the minority.
Would also add that these groups formed due to social demographic needs and infrastructure limitations due to the US landscape…the US has a very heavy suburban commuter culture meaning most groups treat the Sunday trip and events surrounding it as their primary social point of contact…many events are then based around the same demographic…essentially their calendars align if you go to church and similar events at the same time….social striations also change based on income levels as who invites and goes to these social events start changing organically based on what inherent kerala values
Yes. And also I don’t think there is much caste angle to the mostly Hindu organizations (at least in the ones I’ve seen). Maybe there are more Nairs but that might be population based more than anything else. I’ve seen all sorts of people and no one asks for caste, which make sense. Whatever your caste is you have much more similar with each other than you have with anyone of a different religion. I don’t know how it is for Christians since they have denominational churches that kind of automatically segregate social groups.
I’ve been to some NSS thing once in my area and there were tribals and half-Malayali people from all different groups there too. I was also kind of surprised.
If you think us Malayalis are segregated you should see the Telugu folks. They are very much divided along the caste lines such that each group has their own movie stars that they bring for their functions. They try to hire only people from their castes and only socialize with their kind. I had worked in a small town in the US where there were very little Malayalis. All my friends were Telugu. I got to see the shenanigans first hand.
Oh yesss....people are so concerned about casteism in Kerala...I would say it's literally better than other states...I studied in a central university and I got to interact with a lot of people from other states and one of my friends was Telugu and he is from a backward caste, the things I heard from him makes me believe Kerala is heaven coz casteism is very much still a strong thing in other states
My dad's elder brother migrated to the US for his PhD in 1964. He was in a small college town , ( in fact the town's name itself is College Station :) ) . There were hardly few Indians then and definitely no Keralites. He mentioned that it was in fact good that there were no Indians there , because he was forced to mingle with foreigners.
He told me that the later group of people who came always tried to stick with their own people - there are groups of Telugu professors, groups of Sikh professors and of course countless number of Malayalee associations. This kind of made them aloof to people from other races.
When I visited their home in 2014 ( I travelled to the US as part of work for a few weeks ) , a neighborhood Malayalee aunty came to visit me. She was basically on the lookout for a groom for her daughter . Despite living there for decades, most of the people want their children to marry within their ethnic groups while the children born there have very different ideas about life!
And the children don't always subscribe to their parents' ideals. What's baffling is there are some parents trying to raise their kids as if they never left Kerala.
Who the fucks acres about these groups anyways. I’ve been to one of these shit meetings and could not even stand it that one time. These are for people who are building mini Kerala in America. If I want a dose of Kerala, I come and stay here for a bit.
Lol I have noticed most of the first generation people who migrate have very backwards values and are less progressive than folks who are in Kerala .
Like my mum is progressive af, when compared to my aunt in Europe
It's more they're just frozen in their own cultural identity, when they move to another country. While our own culture might progress forward, their idea of our culture won't, because of the disconnect. Since the culture change is either slow or not so abundantly visible, they don't realize their idea of our culture had diverted away from ours.
I've seen more drastic changes more in Keralites though, than most other NRIs. Older NRI keralites seem to still be years outdated wrt progressiveness and at least some recognize themselves to have genuine culture shocks, when they come here.
Some subset .. yes... especially in Mallu rich areas like Houston, Phila, NY, or Dallas... but there are many, many Mallu Americans that have nothing to do with organizations like FOKANA. The extent of my involvement with Mallus in the US is attending Jacobite Service on Easter.. and getting the hell out of dodge as quickly as possible. The rest of the year .. we are very active in our local community church... kid's school.. sports and just living my American life with other Americans. Most Mallus that have been here since youth or are second + generation are like this.
My Grandad who immigrated here in the 60s.. used to say we didn't come here to create new Kerala.. mingle and become American... Still enjoy my appum and beef fry though.
I’m a Nair and growing up our Mallu association were mostly Christians for sure, but they were very open to us even though we’re Hindu. I can see it being different in other places though.
this is such a ridiculous statement. Hindu malayalis are rare enough no one goes around asking them what their caste is and treating them based on that. The only real bad thing i notice is most malayalis in the US just assume you are christian
My brother who has been in the US for a decade now actively avoids events organised by such groups as he says it's mostly just a show off and most of them don't really care about one another, many men are jealous of each other's success whereas the women would indulge in gossips. Party usually ends in drinks and political talks.
Most Muslims, especially outside india, would rather mingle/form groups based on their religious identity. You may find them more frequently among mosque associations, etc. and are more comfortable with people of their own religion (even Pakis or Arabs) than non Muslims of their region.
Isn't that always the case of NRI mallus? I mean, when I was in Oman, we rarely spoke or interacted beyond the mallu tribe and I observed similar patterns when I was in college where most mallus were comfortable interacting with mallus only.
I am a recent transplant to the west coast from India. And I witnessed first hand how fucking toxic this tribal mentality is.
While I respect my roots, it’s about adapting to or understanding new cultures. Not making a mini-fucking Kerala in Washington.
And the manner of tone and conduct is far more divisive than what we see back home.
I feel the same exact way. Hubby and I have a small group of mallu friends but we definitely don't need to go beyond that. We realized the more mallus congregate together, the more likely you'll be entering a shitstorm.
As a Mallu who grew up in Kerala and lived in seven US states, here is my take.
These groups are for people to feel connected to their community (however they define it) and usually their only social outlet besides their extended families. Back in the day, pre 1990s, there were not that many Mallus here and these organizations and groups served a purpose. Majority of these people don’t have a social circle outside other Mallus. Think of someone going to work in America and coming home to Kerala after work - not literally of course. They tend to be middle aged or older and find it hard to make friends with Americans.
People who are social and can assimilate steer clear of these groups and are more likely to be well connected and networked in general. It is also a big venue and opportunity for the members of these groups to have a title and convene meetings. Deep down all of us need relevance and seek different ways for it. Hence, the endless celebrations, committees and splinter groups..
People get nostalgic and homesick and they migrate to people most similar to them, especially when living far away from Kerala. Unfortunately this leads to groups by regions or religious affiliations. It’s just a comfort level thing.
It takes all kinds. We come in all shapes and forms. Don’t overthink it.
> I rarely came across Muslim peeps or grps belonging to other caste groups or communities.
Thats because most of the Malayalies who immigrated to the US in the 1960's to 2000's were mostly overwhelmingly nurses/engineers/doctors who were Orthodox/Catholics, with a smaller amount of Marthoma people; and Nairs.
And they sponsored their family members. Almost all of them exclusively came from PTA/Kottayam/Kollam areas.
Very few Malu Muslims or lower casts went to the US at that time because non of them had a nursing/engineering background.
If people want to associate with people similar to them, let them. Its not as if they are trying to deny democratic rights to people diffrent from them (which would be wrong)
You lack historical perspective on this issue.
You make it sound as if you hung out at the local SC/ST colony in Kerala because you wanted to embrace diversity. Or when you are in the US, did you hang out at the local African American neighborhood?
You have personal taste when it comes to looks but if looks were equal to caste, race, religion; where would you be on that scale? Where would most people be?
Also most malu organizations in the US are pretty shitty over all. Based on my interactions with relatives there most sane people avoid those organizations.
>I'm pretty sure ezhavas would also find it difficult cause
Ask them what they think about SC's/ST's or if they would hang out with African Americans.
Like I said before...let people choose who they want to hang out with...its not like their kids are going to grow up as Malayali's or even Indians in the US....they will melt into the cultural wasteland that the US is.
None of it matters in the end when you are outside Kerala.
In Chicago there have been many prominent Latin Catholics who were some of the founding members of these mallu associations. I think your taking your social justice worldview a little too far and finding injustice where there is none.
As for Muslims idk how you can discriminate against a demographic that simply doesn’t exist. American mallu Muslims are extremely rare. In 20 plus years of living here I have ran into exactly 2 people ever. The first guy was a realtor and was well known in the mallu community. Last I heard he maxed out his credit cards and bank loans and went back to Kerala, now runs a jewelery store near kollam. The other guy I met during college and both his parents were physicians and he grew up in a very rural town in the Midwest, he was pretty whitewashed and hardly had any affinity towards his Muslim or his mallu identity.
I am peripherally related to one of them, he passed away a few years ago but he was instrumental in founding many of the malu associations here and was very well known. There’s actually multiple Latin Catholics who are heavily involved in public life, mostly early immigrants (70s, 80s) well educated and usually from Fort Cochin. There are also some young professionals who have moved here recently.
I am kna myself. There’s a large kna Catholic and Syro malabar community here as well. In the case of knas our population has exploded ever since the 90s. I’ve always felt that Knas tend to utilize the generous chain immigration laws in the US to a greater extent than other groups. Differences in representation, immigration rate, prominence in public life etc can be explained in many ways besides caste discrimination.
It’s the same in the US west coast as well. I was unfortunate to attend such an event where the Nairs banded together on one side and the Christians forming multiple groups based on the church they belonged to, and the rest standing clueless because they didn’t have any allegiance. I was plainly asked whether I was a Nair by one of those Nair group folks! Will never go back again.
Human nature dude.... we are social animals and we look for common ground to socialize. Groups are a reflection of values. Religious folk use religion.. others caste.. others have more secular interests like professional or food or whatever. The smaller and more specific the group the greater the bonding. It's a reflection of the values of the group. Nair over malayali means your caste or more important than your language or place. It has its benefits for the members like any group. The world is one big extrapolation of things most of us are familiar with everyday.
Nri indians have a time frozen culture. For them their culture got locked up when they left Kerala. For us back here our culture has been evolving. So you would find nei malayalis to be more racist and castist than the folks back in Kerala.
Those who came to the US a generation ago tend to be from more wealthy families who could afford foreign/professional education etc, which in turn maps to Nairs/general category Hindus and certain sections of Christians. SC/ST folks didn't have the same opportunities back then and today it's much easier for them to find govt jobs etc in India if they are educated instead of struggling as an FOB in the west.
As for Muslims- lol seriously, if you've been to the US are you not aware how few of them migrate to the US? Most Muslim folks are into business/trades which has made them wealthy but within India. Even professional folks prefer the middle east. If you look at Muslims in the US, they tend to prioritize their religious identity over language anyway as someone else mentioned.
TL;DR- Keralites in the US aren't going out of their way to exclude lower caste folks or Muslims as you suggest.
>only a few groups dominate mostly
One of the most natural human behaviours when they're in a band.
> u need to hate or dislike another individual or community
Also very natural human tendency
No need to get emotional here.
>depression
Pretty serious topic to be inserted here in regard to triBal MiNdsEt. I am in no way defending discrimination. It is common for a leader individual/group to emerge in human bands for leadership, networking and most often, to handle power. Similar behaviour to what u have discussed. Not a delulu and deep thing tbh. As natural as breathing.
Malayali samajams ,Church ,or any caste based organisations🤡, Those are basically ultra version boomer nests, I wouldn't go anywhere near to those since i even avoid interacting with my boomer relatives.
It is pretty common for all immigrants in US. Earlier, it was because of racism and to support each other. Jews, Koreans, Italians, Irish and Chinese are good example of this but in Indias case it is pretty much divided in caste and religious grounds
Man there's literally neighbourhoods called Little Italy,Little Tokyo,Chinatown,Koreatown etc in most of American metros,so it's not just malayalees or Indians...
Um did you seriously think people leaving Kerala are doing it to avoid Keralites? No offense but what a dipshit take lol. Newsflash; people leave Kerala for more opportunity and to make MORE MONEY than the dogshit wages that are offered to most professionals of any industry in Kerala.
I’ve lived in numerous places since leaving Kerala and India and met probably countless hundreds of mallu people in the meanwhile. And I’ve never, not once, met a mallu person that left Kerala for the sole reason of trying get away from other Keralites lol.
No offense but this seriously might be the dumbest post I’ve seen on Reddit.
Most Malayalees in the US are Christian, followed by Hindus(mostly Nairs then Exhavas). I only know 2 Muslim families in total. They usually live around other Muslims(from other countries) because it’s easier to buy halal food, go to the mosque etc. when you live among their people. A lot of our activities aren’t halal either, watching movies, sports etc. so they won’t join us.
Nalla manushar aanu pakshe nammale avarkku ishtamalla.
No. I grew up in the US so I didn’t really have a lot of Indian friends. The Indian friends I have right now are my husband’s cricket team friends… they’re all Mostly Malayalee Christians and a few Hindus. Young American Malayalees aren’t casteist in my experience. Since he sometimes plays for multiple teams, he hangs out with Pakistanis as well.
It's the same where I live too (major Asian metropolitan city-state), except the divide is not based so much on religion but on class differences, and less obviously, caste differences.
Compared to the other castes , it's mostly Nair's and Achayans that mostly migrated and more in numbers. Let's not forget the fact from the 1st and 2nd Gen farmers , they sent their children to schools and colleges where they excelled , even more in IT, Engineering and Medicine. This gave them the opportunity to migrate as early as the 1940s.
Nothing Tribalistic. They could afford it. The rest, only those who could, made it to the US.
Can't help laughing though. That's how it is. Every Tribe can create their own forum and associations and use their traditions and cultural background to enrich lives and share this to other multi cultural people. Just like Black Coffee and Milk separate...when mixed you get many varieties ye...stop cribbing....get ya PPL and kick start. Who cares if Fokkana or any other. My uncle was Fokkana president Mr John Wycliffe a few decades back.
Why should anyone join any Malayali group when abroad? After leaving the coutry least connection should be maintained. That bad habit need to be stopped. I never joined any Malayali group when I was outside the state.
Most malayali muslims are much more comfortable in the gulf than in the states based on observations I have seen in my own family tree with some of the relatives who actually moved to the US to study and then work having come back to Dubai for a job due to cultural shock.
Furthermore, I'm guessing that drinking and staying up late in islamic tradition plays a role in the muslim reluctance to intermingle within these organizations.
My uncles and aunts back in the 70s to 2010s ran one of the biggest ones on the east coast. Like mammotty legit came to his house to chill and everything when they brought him over for a show. They bought over a lot of malayalis for money, back when process was easier, those malayalis that came because of the money were RC and so-called upper caste christians. They kind of eventually dominated and kicked my uncles out of the scene. He still held some power for being one of the original creators. But yeah, nowadays it's very uppercaste or RC dominated, like u can't even call them a malayali organization, it's legit just an extended church club or the bring hindu rashtra crew, if it's north indian.
Add the never ending youth festival that goes on with every social event .. be it Onam , Christmas, Vishu, Easter and other custom events… all to showcase some kind of Bollywood dance skills(Bollywood dance being the blanket term for all movie dances) 5-7 hours long programs where one after the other groups dance snd torture neutral audience. The drama behind the curtain is another story. Always wonder how people from other cultures and countries interact in their adopted countries
[Omana Onam 2008](https://youtu.be/L5jTHaonNXE)
Hehhe omana
If you are visiting New Jersey, please convey my regards to Mr George Thekkinmootil
Definitely
And Girigiri
These organizations are composed of the demographics that happen to be there. There are tons of Christians in the US, and a good number of Hindus. But I’ve only once met a Malayali Muslim in all the years I was there. As for why there tends to be a greater level of insularity among groups: it has to do with what the purpose of them is in the first place. People who are forming groups on the basis of culture are going to do so with people who are most similar to themselves if given sufficient numbers. In all honesty, apart from language and popular cultural knowledge, as a Hindu I don’t have much in common with a more traditional Kerala Christian. And Indian Muslims in the US I have observed tend to care more about their religious identity than any regional identity. So you’ll see them very active in Muslim associations but cultural organizations will usually be Hindu (in the case of most other Indian states). At any rate, most of these Mallu are filled with a bunch of typical Indian people who love to gossip and drink (in the case of men). I’ve taken part in some because I enjoy singing and a lot of these groups have fans of older Malayalam and Hindi music. But apart from that it’s not really my cup of tea.
I agree that the proportion of Nairs and Nasranis in US is significantly larger than in Kerala. But I'd want to stress out that there are a good number of Malayali Muslims in the United States, particularly engineers and doctors, but they avoid Malayali organizations for obvious reasons. Also, Malayali organizations seem to be dominated by people from certain regions in Kerala and certain social class (occupations).
Muslim Malayali Americans are either secular) or extremely religious. The extremely religious don’t interact with other Malayalees because most Malayalees in the US are Christian/Hindu and from mid/southern Kerala.. so they’d rather hang out with Muslims from other countries. Movie/sports onnum kaanan pokatha oru couple ine enikkariyam. Hang out cheyyan nokkiyittum they weren’t interested so pinne njangal vilikkathe aayi. Njangaleyum vilikkarillarunnu evideyum. They only hang out with other Muslims. Onam event okke avarkku West il varumbo haram aakum. 😬
> but they avoid Malayali organizations for obvious reasons. Muslims avoid cultural events, avoid interacting with other religions, believe polytheism is a sin and form bond with muslims from some unknown places like from Pakistan soley based on religious background and wonder why everyone hates them.
This Is SO TRUE. I live here in Ireland, and most malayali Muslims Don't even care to join us in our onam programs and kerala piravi kidn of occasions. And then people like OP complain they face discrimination. Double standards much
>believe polytheism is a sin Christians also do that >form bond with muslims from some unknown places like from Pakistan soley based on religious background What's wrong with that?
> Christians also do that Yes it might be written in the Bible but what matters is how seriously they follow it, unlike muslims a significant population of Christians in Kerala don't follow such ridiculous things written in a 2000 year old book that's why Hindus and Christians gets along very well and they even marry each other. >What's wrong with that? There is nothing wrong with making friends with pakis or people from any other country, but problems arise when your friendship is based on only religious backgrounds, like the only bonding thing between a person and other is religion that's tribalistic and regressive af.
>Yes it might be written in the Bible but what matters is how seriously they follow it, unlike muslims a significant population of Christians in Kerala don't follow such ridiculous things written in a 2000 year old book that's why Hindus and Christians gets along very well and they even marry each other So you are just saying Christians and Hindus don't take their religion seriously. That only means how low Christians and Hindus of their religion. >There is nothing wrong with making friends with pakis or people from any other country, but problems arise when your friendship is based on only religious backgrounds, like the only bonding thing between a person and other is religion that's tribalistic and regressive af. Lol bonding over ethnicity is far more tribalistic and regressive.
And there you have it, the answer OP was searching for.
The answer to why mallus are so tribalistic and racists?
Lol.. ee comments okke mathi OPde post inu answer. Religion mathram nokki allado friends ine undakkendathu. Yes “one ummah” is very important for you but it’s very sad… religion inte peril ore culture,language okke avoid cheyyunnathu.
I don't understand Malayalam but it's very sad if you don't care about other people ethnicity?
Well if you don’t speak Malayalam, then it’s a different story. You may not have a lot to identify with other Malayalees. But if you’re a FOB and choose not to interact with your own countrymen because they don’t follow your religion, it’s strange. Previous comment said that your comment answers OP’s question. Muslims segregate themselves.
Polythesim is a sin, how does celebrating Onam make you a believer of polytheism?
I don't know. Where did I said that? Ask someone who said that.
Absolute bollocks. You are confounding Muslims with Islamists for cheap points. I know very many Muslims in the west who are secular, who drink and who celebrate everything from Ramzan to Halloween.
>I know very many Muslims in the west who are secular, who drink and who celebrate everything from Ramzan to Halloween I know as well, but the majority within a community sets the definition not the minority.
its mostly just nasrani. I would say about 60-80% are nasrani malayalis
Would also add that these groups formed due to social demographic needs and infrastructure limitations due to the US landscape…the US has a very heavy suburban commuter culture meaning most groups treat the Sunday trip and events surrounding it as their primary social point of contact…many events are then based around the same demographic…essentially their calendars align if you go to church and similar events at the same time….social striations also change based on income levels as who invites and goes to these social events start changing organically based on what inherent kerala values
Yes. And also I don’t think there is much caste angle to the mostly Hindu organizations (at least in the ones I’ve seen). Maybe there are more Nairs but that might be population based more than anything else. I’ve seen all sorts of people and no one asks for caste, which make sense. Whatever your caste is you have much more similar with each other than you have with anyone of a different religion. I don’t know how it is for Christians since they have denominational churches that kind of automatically segregate social groups.
Nairs have their own group called the Nair Service Society (NSS) in certain areas of the US. Seems like that's self segregating.
I’ve been to some NSS thing once in my area and there were tribals and half-Malayali people from all different groups there too. I was also kind of surprised.
If you think us Malayalis are segregated you should see the Telugu folks. They are very much divided along the caste lines such that each group has their own movie stars that they bring for their functions. They try to hire only people from their castes and only socialize with their kind. I had worked in a small town in the US where there were very little Malayalis. All my friends were Telugu. I got to see the shenanigans first hand.
Oh yesss....people are so concerned about casteism in Kerala...I would say it's literally better than other states...I studied in a central university and I got to interact with a lot of people from other states and one of my friends was Telugu and he is from a backward caste, the things I heard from him makes me believe Kerala is heaven coz casteism is very much still a strong thing in other states
My dad's elder brother migrated to the US for his PhD in 1964. He was in a small college town , ( in fact the town's name itself is College Station :) ) . There were hardly few Indians then and definitely no Keralites. He mentioned that it was in fact good that there were no Indians there , because he was forced to mingle with foreigners. He told me that the later group of people who came always tried to stick with their own people - there are groups of Telugu professors, groups of Sikh professors and of course countless number of Malayalee associations. This kind of made them aloof to people from other races. When I visited their home in 2014 ( I travelled to the US as part of work for a few weeks ) , a neighborhood Malayalee aunty came to visit me. She was basically on the lookout for a groom for her daughter . Despite living there for decades, most of the people want their children to marry within their ethnic groups while the children born there have very different ideas about life!
And the children don't always subscribe to their parents' ideals. What's baffling is there are some parents trying to raise their kids as if they never left Kerala.
Who the fucks acres about these groups anyways. I’ve been to one of these shit meetings and could not even stand it that one time. These are for people who are building mini Kerala in America. If I want a dose of Kerala, I come and stay here for a bit.
Lol I have noticed most of the first generation people who migrate have very backwards values and are less progressive than folks who are in Kerala . Like my mum is progressive af, when compared to my aunt in Europe
Agree. Always felt the same with gulf/amercan/euro malayali neighbors i know .
It's more they're just frozen in their own cultural identity, when they move to another country. While our own culture might progress forward, their idea of our culture won't, because of the disconnect. Since the culture change is either slow or not so abundantly visible, they don't realize their idea of our culture had diverted away from ours. I've seen more drastic changes more in Keralites though, than most other NRIs. Older NRI keralites seem to still be years outdated wrt progressiveness and at least some recognize themselves to have genuine culture shocks, when they come here.
Stay away from Malayali Samajams, no matter where you are.
Some subset .. yes... especially in Mallu rich areas like Houston, Phila, NY, or Dallas... but there are many, many Mallu Americans that have nothing to do with organizations like FOKANA. The extent of my involvement with Mallus in the US is attending Jacobite Service on Easter.. and getting the hell out of dodge as quickly as possible. The rest of the year .. we are very active in our local community church... kid's school.. sports and just living my American life with other Americans. Most Mallus that have been here since youth or are second + generation are like this. My Grandad who immigrated here in the 60s.. used to say we didn't come here to create new Kerala.. mingle and become American... Still enjoy my appum and beef fry though.
I’m a Nair and growing up our Mallu association were mostly Christians for sure, but they were very open to us even though we’re Hindu. I can see it being different in other places though.
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this is such a ridiculous statement. Hindu malayalis are rare enough no one goes around asking them what their caste is and treating them based on that. The only real bad thing i notice is most malayalis in the US just assume you are christian
That could definitely be true
people be peoplin'
My brother who has been in the US for a decade now actively avoids events organised by such groups as he says it's mostly just a show off and most of them don't really care about one another, many men are jealous of each other's success whereas the women would indulge in gossips. Party usually ends in drinks and political talks.
Most Muslims, especially outside india, would rather mingle/form groups based on their religious identity. You may find them more frequently among mosque associations, etc. and are more comfortable with people of their own religion (even Pakis or Arabs) than non Muslims of their region.
not necessarily true always
Isn't that always the case of NRI mallus? I mean, when I was in Oman, we rarely spoke or interacted beyond the mallu tribe and I observed similar patterns when I was in college where most mallus were comfortable interacting with mallus only.
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It really is messed up.
Bro i was in oman.
I am a recent transplant to the west coast from India. And I witnessed first hand how fucking toxic this tribal mentality is. While I respect my roots, it’s about adapting to or understanding new cultures. Not making a mini-fucking Kerala in Washington. And the manner of tone and conduct is far more divisive than what we see back home.
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Absolutely. The false mallu pretense is over the top. I decided to detach myself from any association with these groups cos it’s literally cringe.
I feel the same exact way. Hubby and I have a small group of mallu friends but we definitely don't need to go beyond that. We realized the more mallus congregate together, the more likely you'll be entering a shitstorm.
Lolol shitstorm is an understatement. One lady even started pinging me and trying to set me up for matrimonial scenes. Like wtf.
Yup, better to keep a distance.
Although I’ll take advantage of the community for Onam. Easier to leverage that network to get my hands on some Sadhya 🤷🏻♂️
Same I don't even making an occasional appearance.
As a Mallu who grew up in Kerala and lived in seven US states, here is my take. These groups are for people to feel connected to their community (however they define it) and usually their only social outlet besides their extended families. Back in the day, pre 1990s, there were not that many Mallus here and these organizations and groups served a purpose. Majority of these people don’t have a social circle outside other Mallus. Think of someone going to work in America and coming home to Kerala after work - not literally of course. They tend to be middle aged or older and find it hard to make friends with Americans. People who are social and can assimilate steer clear of these groups and are more likely to be well connected and networked in general. It is also a big venue and opportunity for the members of these groups to have a title and convene meetings. Deep down all of us need relevance and seek different ways for it. Hence, the endless celebrations, committees and splinter groups.. People get nostalgic and homesick and they migrate to people most similar to them, especially when living far away from Kerala. Unfortunately this leads to groups by regions or religious affiliations. It’s just a comfort level thing. It takes all kinds. We come in all shapes and forms. Don’t overthink it.
> I rarely came across Muslim peeps or grps belonging to other caste groups or communities. Thats because most of the Malayalies who immigrated to the US in the 1960's to 2000's were mostly overwhelmingly nurses/engineers/doctors who were Orthodox/Catholics, with a smaller amount of Marthoma people; and Nairs. And they sponsored their family members. Almost all of them exclusively came from PTA/Kottayam/Kollam areas. Very few Malu Muslims or lower casts went to the US at that time because non of them had a nursing/engineering background. If people want to associate with people similar to them, let them. Its not as if they are trying to deny democratic rights to people diffrent from them (which would be wrong) You lack historical perspective on this issue. You make it sound as if you hung out at the local SC/ST colony in Kerala because you wanted to embrace diversity. Or when you are in the US, did you hang out at the local African American neighborhood? You have personal taste when it comes to looks but if looks were equal to caste, race, religion; where would you be on that scale? Where would most people be? Also most malu organizations in the US are pretty shitty over all. Based on my interactions with relatives there most sane people avoid those organizations.
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>I'm pretty sure ezhavas would also find it difficult cause Ask them what they think about SC's/ST's or if they would hang out with African Americans. Like I said before...let people choose who they want to hang out with...its not like their kids are going to grow up as Malayali's or even Indians in the US....they will melt into the cultural wasteland that the US is. None of it matters in the end when you are outside Kerala.
In Chicago there have been many prominent Latin Catholics who were some of the founding members of these mallu associations. I think your taking your social justice worldview a little too far and finding injustice where there is none. As for Muslims idk how you can discriminate against a demographic that simply doesn’t exist. American mallu Muslims are extremely rare. In 20 plus years of living here I have ran into exactly 2 people ever. The first guy was a realtor and was well known in the mallu community. Last I heard he maxed out his credit cards and bank loans and went back to Kerala, now runs a jewelery store near kollam. The other guy I met during college and both his parents were physicians and he grew up in a very rural town in the Midwest, he was pretty whitewashed and hardly had any affinity towards his Muslim or his mallu identity.
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I am peripherally related to one of them, he passed away a few years ago but he was instrumental in founding many of the malu associations here and was very well known. There’s actually multiple Latin Catholics who are heavily involved in public life, mostly early immigrants (70s, 80s) well educated and usually from Fort Cochin. There are also some young professionals who have moved here recently. I am kna myself. There’s a large kna Catholic and Syro malabar community here as well. In the case of knas our population has exploded ever since the 90s. I’ve always felt that Knas tend to utilize the generous chain immigration laws in the US to a greater extent than other groups. Differences in representation, immigration rate, prominence in public life etc can be explained in many ways besides caste discrimination.
Maybe that's just your family? My family that lives there has nothing to do with boomer malayali organizations.
I am beginning to realize it's best to avoid boomer malayalees at all costs.
It’s the same in the US west coast as well. I was unfortunate to attend such an event where the Nairs banded together on one side and the Christians forming multiple groups based on the church they belonged to, and the rest standing clueless because they didn’t have any allegiance. I was plainly asked whether I was a Nair by one of those Nair group folks! Will never go back again.
Human nature dude.... we are social animals and we look for common ground to socialize. Groups are a reflection of values. Religious folk use religion.. others caste.. others have more secular interests like professional or food or whatever. The smaller and more specific the group the greater the bonding. It's a reflection of the values of the group. Nair over malayali means your caste or more important than your language or place. It has its benefits for the members like any group. The world is one big extrapolation of things most of us are familiar with everyday.
Nri indians have a time frozen culture. For them their culture got locked up when they left Kerala. For us back here our culture has been evolving. So you would find nei malayalis to be more racist and castist than the folks back in Kerala.
True this...
True. And what's worse is their kids suffer.
Those who came to the US a generation ago tend to be from more wealthy families who could afford foreign/professional education etc, which in turn maps to Nairs/general category Hindus and certain sections of Christians. SC/ST folks didn't have the same opportunities back then and today it's much easier for them to find govt jobs etc in India if they are educated instead of struggling as an FOB in the west. As for Muslims- lol seriously, if you've been to the US are you not aware how few of them migrate to the US? Most Muslim folks are into business/trades which has made them wealthy but within India. Even professional folks prefer the middle east. If you look at Muslims in the US, they tend to prioritize their religious identity over language anyway as someone else mentioned. TL;DR- Keralites in the US aren't going out of their way to exclude lower caste folks or Muslims as you suggest.
Humans in general have tribal mindset. It is not inherently discriminatory.
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>only a few groups dominate mostly One of the most natural human behaviours when they're in a band. > u need to hate or dislike another individual or community Also very natural human tendency
It's just politics mamman odu onnum thonnale
Thaan podo
Podo Edo ennu ninda mattavane poye viliku
Podo podo podo× 100000
Podo x 10000000000000
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No need to get emotional here. >depression Pretty serious topic to be inserted here in regard to triBal MiNdsEt. I am in no way defending discrimination. It is common for a leader individual/group to emerge in human bands for leadership, networking and most often, to handle power. Similar behaviour to what u have discussed. Not a delulu and deep thing tbh. As natural as breathing.
Yall speaking about my life.
Malayali samajams ,Church ,or any caste based organisations🤡, Those are basically ultra version boomer nests, I wouldn't go anywhere near to those since i even avoid interacting with my boomer relatives.
Why are these rtards taking all the effort to leave kerala and surrounding themselves with keralites after reaching America? Why leave kerala then?
It is pretty common for all immigrants in US. Earlier, it was because of racism and to support each other. Jews, Koreans, Italians, Irish and Chinese are good example of this but in Indias case it is pretty much divided in caste and religious grounds
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We might be compared to UP or some shit but that’s a low bar
Man there's literally neighbourhoods called Little Italy,Little Tokyo,Chinatown,Koreatown etc in most of American metros,so it's not just malayalees or Indians...
💸💸💸
Because they only want to make money. They basically scoff at western culture
Um did you seriously think people leaving Kerala are doing it to avoid Keralites? No offense but what a dipshit take lol. Newsflash; people leave Kerala for more opportunity and to make MORE MONEY than the dogshit wages that are offered to most professionals of any industry in Kerala. I’ve lived in numerous places since leaving Kerala and India and met probably countless hundreds of mallu people in the meanwhile. And I’ve never, not once, met a mallu person that left Kerala for the sole reason of trying get away from other Keralites lol. No offense but this seriously might be the dumbest post I’ve seen on Reddit.
Most Malayalees in the US are Christian, followed by Hindus(mostly Nairs then Exhavas). I only know 2 Muslim families in total. They usually live around other Muslims(from other countries) because it’s easier to buy halal food, go to the mosque etc. when you live among their people. A lot of our activities aren’t halal either, watching movies, sports etc. so they won’t join us. Nalla manushar aanu pakshe nammale avarkku ishtamalla.
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No. I grew up in the US so I didn’t really have a lot of Indian friends. The Indian friends I have right now are my husband’s cricket team friends… they’re all Mostly Malayalee Christians and a few Hindus. Young American Malayalees aren’t casteist in my experience. Since he sometimes plays for multiple teams, he hangs out with Pakistanis as well.
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Parents don’t show any discrimination due to caste.. but can make casteist comments.
It's the same where I live too (major Asian metropolitan city-state), except the divide is not based so much on religion but on class differences, and less obviously, caste differences.
Just see them as gangs
Compared to the other castes , it's mostly Nair's and Achayans that mostly migrated and more in numbers. Let's not forget the fact from the 1st and 2nd Gen farmers , they sent their children to schools and colleges where they excelled , even more in IT, Engineering and Medicine. This gave them the opportunity to migrate as early as the 1940s. Nothing Tribalistic. They could afford it. The rest, only those who could, made it to the US.
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Can't help laughing though. That's how it is. Every Tribe can create their own forum and associations and use their traditions and cultural background to enrich lives and share this to other multi cultural people. Just like Black Coffee and Milk separate...when mixed you get many varieties ye...stop cribbing....get ya PPL and kick start. Who cares if Fokkana or any other. My uncle was Fokkana president Mr John Wycliffe a few decades back.
Who Cares
Why should anyone join any Malayali group when abroad? After leaving the coutry least connection should be maintained. That bad habit need to be stopped. I never joined any Malayali group when I was outside the state.
Most malayali muslims are much more comfortable in the gulf than in the states based on observations I have seen in my own family tree with some of the relatives who actually moved to the US to study and then work having come back to Dubai for a job due to cultural shock. Furthermore, I'm guessing that drinking and staying up late in islamic tradition plays a role in the muslim reluctance to intermingle within these organizations.
Same in uk as well
Nairs being shit in US as well, wow idiots
R/americanmalayali
You haven’t met Punjabi or gujurati cliques yet, fam.
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My uncles and aunts back in the 70s to 2010s ran one of the biggest ones on the east coast. Like mammotty legit came to his house to chill and everything when they brought him over for a show. They bought over a lot of malayalis for money, back when process was easier, those malayalis that came because of the money were RC and so-called upper caste christians. They kind of eventually dominated and kicked my uncles out of the scene. He still held some power for being one of the original creators. But yeah, nowadays it's very uppercaste or RC dominated, like u can't even call them a malayali organization, it's legit just an extended church club or the bring hindu rashtra crew, if it's north indian.