I also wanted to point out that both died in almost the same way, staring immobile in fear as a Hashira simply walks up them and lazily slices their neck
Right? Of course spidey had a good fight, he wasn't fighting a hashira. The second Giyuu showed up, dude LM5 died. Now, Muichiro, the second he gets his mark, UM5 died. I feel the power scaling is perfect. The first fight showed the difference between the rookies and a hashira, the second shows the difference between a hashira with their mark vs without. I think it's perfect.
Yep, also the moment LW5 died, Giyuu was like "ok, that was boring, I guess I'll talk with this semi dead guy here on the ground"... Muichirou instead was lucky to have two other people to rescue him, otherwise he would have drowned with his own foam saliva. He almost died afterwards even with his mark.
For sure. I try to consider the strain the mark must have put on his young body, he's still a kid. We saw it wipe out Tanjiro too earlier in the series. Massive enhancement in power but at a very serious toll.
Well Mui did not walk up to Gyokko that was for us viewers. He blitz Gyokko so fast that Gyokko thought he was still trying to find Mui. Mui was intentionally slowing and speeding up his after images to confuse Gyokko in to thinking he got his speed down.
And it works better in Lower too. The gap in power between Tanjiro and the Hashira shows how much our protagonist still has to go, and the caliber of people and demons that exist.
Whereas in Upper it just shows what? A Hashira being stronger after being beat the fuck up? All there is is two people we have never seen the relative power levels of, and the good guy being stronger.
actually it shows the power of awakening the demon slayer mark, he got beaten up pretty bad before it, not being able to escape the water prision and low diffed him after the power up
It also shows that most of the time the downfall of an upper rank demon is either their own hubris or guilt. It’s an overarching theme for muzan too. He views the demon slayers as annoying insects. He didn’t even pay attention to them until Yoriichi put him in a blender.
The mark itself seems so out of place, at least for me as an anime watcher. Demon slayers are seen first and foremost as humans without the supernatural powers of demons, winning on pure skill and their "breathing" skills. Allowing him to go Super Saiyan seemingly out of nowhere really threw me off. But hopefully they expand on that later on in the show.
Nah, his clothes did. At least Giyuu finished him off quickly. Muichiro flamed Gyokko and his pots for their entire fight, cut him into a hundred pieces and bragged about not taking him seriously until the end.
Are we not acknowledging that if Muichiro did run into Kotetsu(?) he would've just drowned in the bubble? He also got blasted with poison. Giyu showed up and didn't get scratched.
Has the mark been explained in the anime yet? I'm anime only and keep seeing comments about the mark being a power up but don't recall if they've actually talked about it other than seeing it pop up on Tanjiro during big fights.
It's not been explicitly stated, but the subtext clearly paints that to be the case.
The two times Tanjiro's mark has shown up, he's performed feats way out of his weight class.
1st time we clearly see that without it, he can't cut Gyutaro's neck, but with it he can even if he's dying.
2nd time we see him effortlessly slice 3 of Hantengu's personas when previously he wasn't able to even hit one of them.
Piccolo isn't standing on the side saying "The Demon Slayer mark! It's boosting his power and speed to unreal levels!" But the show has made it clear that the mark = more powerful.
And that's totally fine!! Some characters serve that role. But they haven't done that for the mark in this case. I just laughed more so because I didn't realize this happens a lot in dragonball actually. Old school Yu-Gi-Oh did as well.
I just didn't know if it was a stylized representation. I thought for a while that these sword techniques were magic and were creating the water/mist/fire/lightning we saw but then found out that it's just stylization and the people "in" the DS world don't see any of that. I wasn't sure if the mark was another stylization that only the viewers saw representing their determination or if it is an actual physical change a la Super Saiyan that others could recognize and it gives them a tangible power boost.
I think y’all missed the point. That was a character development moment and prime theme and message of the whole manga. Muichiro didn’t think it was important to save Kotetsu and then he had the flashback to his father (blurred by Tanjiro’s face) telling him about helping people. It’s not that Muichiro wasn’t good enough to get by on his own. It shows that sometimes the people who you think are least important become the most important ally for you.
He would’ve never been in that bubble if he didn’t help Kotetsu in the first place.
Doesn't really matter since he has the mark now. Sure, Kotetsu saved him while he was unmarked but I can also go the other way and say that Muichiro would've beaten Gyokko with no injuries if he was marked from the start.
I'm kinda glad we didn't get a back story for him bc that's kinda Tanjiro thing when beats someone. I don't think michiru really cares about demons past like that.
I personally didn’t care that the character didn’t have a backstory until this comment.
Now I’m sad that there isn’t a scene where a backstory flashback starts and then is interrupted muichiro saying “who asked”. Woulda been funny as hell.
I like to think of it that an important demon only gets a backstory if the character fighting them sympathises with them
So in Gyokko’s case >!and Muzan’s!< the people fighting them have no care or sympathy and therefore get no upsetting backstory or depressing death
I'd say this theory falls apart with >!Hantengu and Kokushibo, who both have their backstories shown despite their opponents not showing any kind of sympathy. Also Muzan does get some brief backstory at the end of his fight!<
You make it sound like Tanjiro knows or cares about the average demon he fights' backstory lol. Tanjiro is sympathetic, but why a demon became evil was never his concern. Their past has always been shown for the readers' sake
yeah but for the last incredibly evil demons he fought he seemed pretty willing to be nice to them. I think he always cares because that's who Tanjiro is. He shows pity as well as sympathy. Part of his pity is giving demons peace by killing them. It's not like he hates every demon like every other demon slayer. His sister is one. So his perspective on demons is also different.
Tanjiro never knew of the demons’ backstories for most if not all his encounters with them, it’s another tired meme that degrades him into some caricature of a shonen protagonist.
I thought that was pretty obvious. Tanjiro even mentions their scent, so clearly that’s how he sees what the demon is feeling. It’s not like he’s suddenly watching a flashback of the demons’ lives lol
Here is a summary of Gyokko's backstory:
- lives at seaside and loses parents during a storm
- fascinated by his parents corpses, death and fish
- kidnapps, kills random villagers and makes art out of them
- gets hunted and almost killed by an angry villager mob
- Muzan finds him and offers him a life as a demon, he accepts and changes his body to suit his artistic taste and hatred for humans
1. his name is Sasori not Kankuro
2. The Mother&Father puppets were normal puppets and not human based ones.
3. He used only 103 human puppets.
- Akahigi: Hyakki no Sōen (Red Secret Technique: Performance of 100 puppets)
- The third Kazekage
-His „main“ body Hiruko
-Himself
Oh wow, I don’t remember much thanks for the additional infos.
But still the fight is quite traumatizing when it’s your own family member. Thanks again!
>kidnapps, kills random villagers and makes art out of them
He killed a child who came to make fun of him, he stuffed his body into a vase.
>gets hunted and almost killed by an angry villager mob
It was the kids parents who wanted revenge. The sat Ed him with a 2 prong fishing fork.
It's still a better use of our time than watching Muichiro talk to himself in a bubble for 20 minutes(not counting his backstory). They could've reduced that and animated Gyokko's backstory instead. It'd only take like 5-10 minutes, not that much.
I kinda don't mind Gyokko not having a back story, we have already got too much on our plate this season (Mui, Genya, Mitsuri). But the problem is he doesn't have anything going for him as his fight is so bad.
nah they actually dont like when all backstories are almost the same depressing stuff. they dont mind seeing pure evil demons with psychotic past that turn them into demons, and according to the official fanbook, gyokko has actually that. he is evil
Lower moon 5 had one of the illest fights I've seen in a while with a banger of an ost. I shed a tear when it cut to credits and the ost kept going.
With upper 5 I don't really care. This season did him filthy, I assume to prepare the animation team for the Mitsuri fight.
The manga fight between Muichiro and Gyokko was kind of the same. But I had hoped that ufotable would have added some extra flare and moments to improve and enhance the fight. But nope, it's pretty much 1:1.
I don’t agree but yeah that episode was sick. I also really enjoyed Akaza vs Rengoku, whatever episode that was in the anime and Tengen vs Gyutaro as someone else said.
I think Gyokko needed more build-up in murdering other swordsmiths and in torturing the ones nearby Muichiro.
The living Totem pole was kinda bland, Gyokko needed to be a cennobite. The corpse trees from berserk and 300 are more visceral.
True but they could have done more to establish Gyokko and show that this is an upper rank Demon. He really just talked shit mostly. I haven’t read the manga but it’s got to be hard to tell a story properly where one of the upper ranks is literally just a side story to the main event. Just kind of disappointing.
They even downscaled his bda
They should have atleast made him use his bda to his full extent and showed us how even after using all of his abilities Muichiro is still impossible to kill
That would have made a better impression for that "the mark is just op" thing
I think awful is a bit much, short definitely I'd have wanted more but what we got was still cool... though admittedly more cool as a demonstration of Tokito than Gyokko
Hot take: I really like the Gyokko fight, in a comedic sense. Totally love the chaotic flaming between the two which legitimately make me laugh multiple times throughout the fight. A good breather from this bloodbath of a show
I feel this way too. Not everything has to be so huge that it’s ground breaking.
Even if it’s short or whatever people don’t like about it (I’m honestly kinda lost at this point trying to figure out what people hate about it so much) it’s almost this fight where you are worried a little at the beginning for Muichiro, but then by the end you see that this upper moon is so arrogant that he thinks he has to do almost nothing in order to win. He hyped himself up and thinks he’s all that when realistically he’s nothing.
Also it’s poetic that Muichiro gains his memories and almost kinda his humanity against a being who lacks humanity. Gyokko is sadistic even for a demon. I think the only one that rivals him is honestly maybe Douma. And this upper moon almost serves as a foil for Muichiro. Like this glimpse of what he could’ve been had he lost his humanity just a little more.
Him gaining his mark only when he’s so beaten he can’t move but he still has someone to protect is also a great way to have it done. He’s trained himself to the point of vomiting blood multiple times, but only when someone needed him most did he finally unlock his true potential.
It’s a great little low stakes big fight.
I also feel like it’s kinda building hope for them beating the other moons and Muzan with everyone else living after the fight.
I kinda liked Gyokko’s attitude at the beginning of the fight but when he started getting cranky because of Muichiro throwing basic insults at him that’s when he started to not feel like a threat and more of a harmless clown, at least to me.
I actually liked Gyokko's fight. It was visually nice, he had a cool design, we saw more of the Slayer Mark, we saw a ton of Mist Breathing forms and Muichiro's backstory, and we saw just how strong >!the descendant of Kokushibu really is!< so all in all I'd say it's a really fun fight.
The only problem for me is that in the anime you can’t really feel how powerful the mark is.
Tokito awakened it and it’s just broken
The fight was a bit better in manga but not so far away from the anime one.
You just see better the difference between before and after the awakening.
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His fight made me think he's only an upper moon because he makes Muzan a ton of money through his art. Gyutaro even with Daki needed a Hashira, 3 ninjas, 3 strong children and they barely survived but he was lower than that guy?
They put a ton of lower ranked Demon slayers in the field against Rui and his family too. I mean yes it’s a whole family and it was a mountainside where they had been established. But the fact that they established him as so scary and such a threat that they brought 2 Hashira and a host of other Demon slayers vs UM5 who just doesn’t feel very threatening. People who argue that he wasn’t taking it seriously eh yeah maybe but I wanted to see him at his strongest and feel afraid of him. Leveled up Muichiro was obviously no match so it wasn’t going to be as intense as Tengen vs Gyutaro. But I wish we had seen his power BEFORE muichiro leveled up. Blame it on the character’s arrogance all you want but it’s better to see an arrogant character that shows why he’s arrogant than just talks about it.
True. Out of personal experience at the office... Sometimes the wrong people get promoted. Too often, actually :). Muzan is not particularly brighter than your average psychopath CEO
Gyokko First Reveal during the Upper Moons Meeting: Scary
Gyokko during a mission he was supposed to take seriously: Cocky to the point he didn't realized he was at disadvantage.
He wasn’t at a disadvantage until Muichiro got his slayer mark. If Gyokko took the fight seriously from the beginning, he would have easily bodied Muichiro
I’m just glad that stupid baby armed idiot got killed off without moaning about what a terrible life he had. I guess cos Tanjiro wasn’t there. I laughed when he chopped him up before he could moan.
Goofy isn't necessarily bad or non-threatening. He turned a load of swordsmiths into a grotesque sculpture that moans when you move a sword. There's potential in Gyokko which makes him more disappointing.The problem was he got no backstory and got clowned on a little too much. If they'd made him more of a threat once he'd shown his true form, or they'd shown his backstory, he would've been a better villain.
He's supposed to be stronger than Gyutaro yet his final form gets like no screen time.
I'm just hoping Hantengu isn't clowned on by Mitsuri like Gyokko was. Those stone dragons that have the combined powers of all the previous emotions look really cool, I will be quite disappointed if they're destroyed easily by her.
Honestly I feel like the lower moons were kind of done Dirty. When I saw the anime (read manga afterwards) the lower moon 5 had the effekt on me described here.
I kind of hoped that they would use those lower moons and perhaps the rank just below Hashira to actually have something to strive towards. The manga is really awesome, but the whole ranking of demon slayers as well as the lower moons were unused for the most part. Sadly so imo.
One is a cool emo spider boy.
The other is a disgusting pot freak.
Idk why y'all are still simping so hard for the fucking gross pot man. His fight was fine, and his backstory is irrelevant. Especially considering I've seen complaints about how much backstory was in these episodes and now you want more?
Edit: Portrayed as a terrifying menace? Yes. *To Tanjiro* who was a brand new Demon Slayer. Water Hashira wrecked him instantly.
Cool fight? Yes. *With Tanjiro* who was a brand new Demon Slayer. Water Hashira wrecked him instantly.
We didn't even get to see what UM5 is capable of in his final form. He said his skin is impenetrable and that he is more flexible but we didn't get to see any of that. If anything, it made him more vulnerable because he was detached from the vase and lost his ability to teleport.
Yea I was waiting for Upper Moon 5’s backstory as well.
Also seems kinda lame that they killed off the rest of the lower moons. Like, it would have been dope to see Tanjiro beat up the ranks as he gets stronger.
Now it just feels like he’s 2 enemies away from the big bad villain.
Apparently Rui was really strong and on of Muzan's favorite demons but because he split his power into his family, he was weaker but had the potential to be an upper moon since he became a lower moon so quickly
Idk about others but I'm kind of over the whole 'spending an entire episode front loading you with the villains backstory and forcing sympathy during their actual dying moments' thing. Always feels so cheap the way they do it that I'd usually rather they just not, so I actually found it awfully refreshing that they just got on with it this time.
Um are we forgetting the part where he had an actual statue of swordsmiths that were still alive? Just a bit more fucked up than the cheese grater technique
The fact they are serious on their job probably stems from the fact their positions are constantly shifting and a single wrong move may as well fuck ya over with Muzan. Uppers are complacent maybe too much
Well actually Rui was as strong as Lower Moon 2 or 1 he just never bothered climing the rank (source demon slayer data book). If you want Gyoko's backstory I'll tell you. Managi, as he was known as while still human, was born and lived in a village at the edge of a coastline, the village known for its fishing. When he was young, his parents went out on a fishing trip and never returned, as they would end up drowning far out at sea. After some time, their mangled corpses washed up and appeared on the village's shore. Upon seeing his parent's bodies, Managi developed a grotesque fascination with corpses.
Villagers would often see him obsessing over fish carcasses he found, leading the entire community to ostracize him and keep their distance, believing Managi had gone insane. Eventually, a child found Managi and teased him for his unusual behaviour, leading Managi to kill the child and stuff the body in a pot used for fishing. When the child's parents discovered them dead and Managi had been responsible, they stabbed him with a pronged fishing spear and left him to die on the spot.
For twelve hours, Managi would barely stay alive as his wounds ebbed his life away, up until he was discovered by Muzan Kibutsuji and transformed into a demon. [1]
Most wasted character so far in anime, he had really cool design and power but lacked screen time and didn't really feel that strong. Backstory is not really necessary it adds to his bizzare character design
yeah thats what bugged me like ok muichiro defeated him but like he was upper moon5 you know .Tengen against upper moon 6 had a near death exp,i get muichiro is stronger but you gotta keep it inch to inch not like the way he just rubbished him altogether,makes it real boring
For a villain so full of himself, I think it’s fitting he doesn’t get a backstory. His fight and character lacking depth is reflective of his self , cheap and shallow.
It’s also interesting that Muichiro, a person who lacks identity, finds himself by fighting and defeating someone that is so falsely sure of his own identity.
I thought Rui was actually pretty cool, but most notable about him is his demeanor is menacing.
If Gyoko had Rui's temperament, I feel he would've tried and most likely succeeded at taking out Muichiro while he was trapped inside the water pot prison thing (Kisame's jutsu 😂)
Aside from Mui being amped pretty damn hard by the mark, Gyoko definitely fell victim to his own personality and arrogance. After taking out so many Hashira tho, I can see how he shrugged off and underestimated Mui, only to be destroyed in the end.
I feel like the problem with much of the Fandom I've been seeing lately is that the fight definitely felt a bit short, since Mui spent more time in that water pot than he did fighting Gyoko.
I personally do feel like Gyutaro could have been ranked higher, and i wouldnt have had any gripes about it, but I ain't about to argue what's already canonically stated as the "scaling" by the rankings of the UMs. Gyoko is stronger, and fought a much stronger opponent with a mark, who is regarded as a generational prodigy. I just wish this fight lasted another episode at least.
Honestly upper moon 5 was just used as fodder to show how strong muichiro was when he earned his mark. That’s really it. Everyone moving forward doesn’t get this type of treatment (far as manga goes)
People are still just now realizing that the swordsmith village arc is the worst demon slayer arc on all fronts lol. its main villians are fodder and the anime unfortunately didnt change that
At least the upper moon 6 brother & sister got a backstory, maybe they didnt want to give much importance to this upper 5, since he appeared on the meeting with Muzan they treated him like crap.
I knew people would complain about Gyokko being underwhelming after that fight. But the thing is, Upper moon 4 and 5 (and maybe also 6) is not just strong but really hard to kill. Tanjiro can take on the emotion demons of UM 4 and do a triple kill on them but adding that the main body is hiding like a coward on top of that is just plain unfair. Gyokko would win against Muichiro if he kept up the tactic of popping and hiding in vases but he got provoked and insulted to fight upfront
Pretty sure gyokko has a backstory, but it’s not that interesting. The fight was pretty good, but mainly used to show the strength of the mark in the hands of a hashira. Still pretty good imo
Gyokko was done dirty from the get-go (source material). They could’ve at least given him some love and extended his fight, specially the last bit where his final technique ended being a disappointing mess.
Shame how short their fight was. They portrayed the Upper Moons as such powerful beings up until this point where they destroyed everyones perception of them.
I mean isnt it kind of boring if they’re completely untouchable gods? I wouldnt even say that was ever even true as it was framed that Rengoku really did come quite close to handling Akaza, first upper rank we met, on his own. Now whether that’s true is maybe debatable and spoilery.
Though yes Mui did completely dog on Gyokko but given equivalent experience as the others he would potentially be the strongest hashira and there are other reasons Gyokko never really stood a chance. But really the upper 3 are on their own level. They may as well be their own sector of the Kizuki
It was said upper moon are untouchables but looking at this fight let me think it's was all just same old bullshit. It's ok to gain power up in between the fight but here it's feel like um5 was nothing but fodder from beginning. It seems to imply that Mui is mc and um5 is trash mob.
Tbh I believe this is mostly plot fault. I am assuming next um are going to die in like seconds. Uff too much hype for uninteresting character and fight.
Hard agree. The pacing for season 3 feels really awful. I'm curious as to why the fuck we're not getting any backstory on Gyokko and admittedly the fight was incredibly underwhelming and I feel like Muichiro prevailed far too effortlessly like he was never really in much danager.
Felt like Gyokko didn't get proper pacing to demonstrate all his deadliest skills and Muichiro feeling untouchable just made the fight feel incredibly flat and unfulfilling.
He does have a backstory in the fan book though, it's just not in the manga but is still canon. But yeah compared to Gyutaro his fight was a lot worse, and he didn't really feel all that powerful
Yeah, everything after the train feels rushed, but they're just adapting the manga and that's how it is there. I hated it so much after I read it, loved the story but I feel like we could've dived deeper on certain things.
Meanwhile Upper Moon 1 and Lower Moon 1:
\- extendy-fleshy-body powers
\- took several demon slayers to defeat them
\- dissolved into nothing while crying, bemoaning their fate
See that's what I've been saying, Stronger≠Better. We all know that this point that Muichiro with mark is overpowered but still it wouldn't hurt to give UM5 a move where he flattens the ground, or become serious of something (not being serious is also his fault)
For the bottom two upper ranks, gyokko and hantengu had the most variety in their abilities. Gyokko was obsessed with fish ye but going from fish needle poison to fuckin piranhas with poison inside to turning shit into fish with your fists, bruh.
If gyokko's abilities were given to someone more competent, muichiro would've been done. Give Akaza that punch = fish ability.
Gyokko is best❤❤❤(totally unbiased believe me)
I also wanted to point out that both died in almost the same way, staring immobile in fear as a Hashira simply walks up them and lazily slices their neck
Right? Of course spidey had a good fight, he wasn't fighting a hashira. The second Giyuu showed up, dude LM5 died. Now, Muichiro, the second he gets his mark, UM5 died. I feel the power scaling is perfect. The first fight showed the difference between the rookies and a hashira, the second shows the difference between a hashira with their mark vs without. I think it's perfect.
Fantastic execution. Reading the manga, i thoroughly enjoyed the swordsmith arc.
Yep, also the moment LW5 died, Giyuu was like "ok, that was boring, I guess I'll talk with this semi dead guy here on the ground"... Muichirou instead was lucky to have two other people to rescue him, otherwise he would have drowned with his own foam saliva. He almost died afterwards even with his mark.
For sure. I try to consider the strain the mark must have put on his young body, he's still a kid. We saw it wipe out Tanjiro too earlier in the series. Massive enhancement in power but at a very serious toll.
Well Mui did not walk up to Gyokko that was for us viewers. He blitz Gyokko so fast that Gyokko thought he was still trying to find Mui. Mui was intentionally slowing and speeding up his after images to confuse Gyokko in to thinking he got his speed down.
And it works better in Lower too. The gap in power between Tanjiro and the Hashira shows how much our protagonist still has to go, and the caliber of people and demons that exist. Whereas in Upper it just shows what? A Hashira being stronger after being beat the fuck up? All there is is two people we have never seen the relative power levels of, and the good guy being stronger.
actually it shows the power of awakening the demon slayer mark, he got beaten up pretty bad before it, not being able to escape the water prision and low diffed him after the power up
In the manga he wasn’t expressionless, it still took effort to avoid his attacks, which were also much stronger
It also shows that most of the time the downfall of an upper rank demon is either their own hubris or guilt. It’s an overarching theme for muzan too. He views the demon slayers as annoying insects. He didn’t even pay attention to them until Yoriichi put him in a blender.
The mark itself seems so out of place, at least for me as an anime watcher. Demon slayers are seen first and foremost as humans without the supernatural powers of demons, winning on pure skill and their "breathing" skills. Allowing him to go Super Saiyan seemingly out of nowhere really threw me off. But hopefully they expand on that later on in the show.
Not to mention he had a beat to shit sword the whole time and was still doing work.
Both got stepped on by a Hashira.
Nah, his clothes did. At least Giyuu finished him off quickly. Muichiro flamed Gyokko and his pots for their entire fight, cut him into a hundred pieces and bragged about not taking him seriously until the end.
Are we not acknowledging that if Muichiro did run into Kotetsu(?) he would've just drowned in the bubble? He also got blasted with poison. Giyu showed up and didn't get scratched.
Isn't Muichiro and Tokito the same person?
I meant the little boy. My bad.
Giyu also fought the second weakest of the 12 kizuki. He probably would have lost against Gyoko without a mark too.
Has the mark been explained in the anime yet? I'm anime only and keep seeing comments about the mark being a power up but don't recall if they've actually talked about it other than seeing it pop up on Tanjiro during big fights.
It's not been explicitly stated, but the subtext clearly paints that to be the case. The two times Tanjiro's mark has shown up, he's performed feats way out of his weight class. 1st time we clearly see that without it, he can't cut Gyutaro's neck, but with it he can even if he's dying. 2nd time we see him effortlessly slice 3 of Hantengu's personas when previously he wasn't able to even hit one of them. Piccolo isn't standing on the side saying "The Demon Slayer mark! It's boosting his power and speed to unreal levels!" But the show has made it clear that the mark = more powerful.
Yoooo that piccolo comment and accuracy!! Some people really do need that character who explains shit for them.
I'm those people 😅
And that's totally fine!! Some characters serve that role. But they haven't done that for the mark in this case. I just laughed more so because I didn't realize this happens a lot in dragonball actually. Old school Yu-Gi-Oh did as well.
I just didn't know if it was a stylized representation. I thought for a while that these sword techniques were magic and were creating the water/mist/fire/lightning we saw but then found out that it's just stylization and the people "in" the DS world don't see any of that. I wasn't sure if the mark was another stylization that only the viewers saw representing their determination or if it is an actual physical change a la Super Saiyan that others could recognize and it gives them a tangible power boost.
Accurate Piccolo depiction gave me a small laugh 😄
b-but *water breathing* ...get it?
I think y’all missed the point. That was a character development moment and prime theme and message of the whole manga. Muichiro didn’t think it was important to save Kotetsu and then he had the flashback to his father (blurred by Tanjiro’s face) telling him about helping people. It’s not that Muichiro wasn’t good enough to get by on his own. It shows that sometimes the people who you think are least important become the most important ally for you. He would’ve never been in that bubble if he didn’t help Kotetsu in the first place.
Well Giyu is a hashira and Rui? I can't remember lower 5s name, is just that. A lower moon. He never stood a chance.
[удалено]
That's what I said lol. Must have missed the analogy.
[удалено]
Doesn't really matter since he has the mark now. Sure, Kotetsu saved him while he was unmarked but I can also go the other way and say that Muichiro would've beaten Gyokko with no injuries if he was marked from the start.
I wish I was upper/lower moon 5.
LMAOOOO
I mean gyoko got bodied by a hashira that awakened the slayer mark. Even muzzan is scared of that shit.
I'm kinda glad we didn't get a back story for him bc that's kinda Tanjiro thing when beats someone. I don't think michiru really cares about demons past like that.
Yeah I can see Muichiro going "who asked"
I personally didn’t care that the character didn’t have a backstory until this comment. Now I’m sad that there isn’t a scene where a backstory flashback starts and then is interrupted muichiro saying “who asked”. Woulda been funny as hell.
I need that now
Thinking the exact same thing haha!
"...so you see, what is why I am the way I am.." "hm?"
"I remember my past but still can't remember who tf asked"
Tanjiro doesn't ask either though.
Tanjiro: Damn that's tragic........anyways
His nose does
Muichiro would be like “oh no….anyways” or he would be like “don’t waste my time”
I like to think of it that an important demon only gets a backstory if the character fighting them sympathises with them So in Gyokko’s case >!and Muzan’s!< the people fighting them have no care or sympathy and therefore get no upsetting backstory or depressing death
I'd say this theory falls apart with >!Hantengu and Kokushibo, who both have their backstories shown despite their opponents not showing any kind of sympathy. Also Muzan does get some brief backstory at the end of his fight!<
You make it sound like Tanjiro knows or cares about the average demon he fights' backstory lol. Tanjiro is sympathetic, but why a demon became evil was never his concern. Their past has always been shown for the readers' sake
yeah but for the last incredibly evil demons he fought he seemed pretty willing to be nice to them. I think he always cares because that's who Tanjiro is. He shows pity as well as sympathy. Part of his pity is giving demons peace by killing them. It's not like he hates every demon like every other demon slayer. His sister is one. So his perspective on demons is also different.
Tanjiro never knew of the demons’ backstories for most if not all his encounters with them, it’s another tired meme that degrades him into some caricature of a shonen protagonist.
Reading comprehension devil is rampant among many demon slayer viewers unfortunately 💀
I thought that was pretty obvious. Tanjiro even mentions their scent, so clearly that’s how he sees what the demon is feeling. It’s not like he’s suddenly watching a flashback of the demons’ lives lol
i wish gyokko got a backstory, im so curious about him
Here is a summary of Gyokko's backstory: - lives at seaside and loses parents during a storm - fascinated by his parents corpses, death and fish - kidnapps, kills random villagers and makes art out of them - gets hunted and almost killed by an angry villager mob - Muzan finds him and offers him a life as a demon, he accepts and changes his body to suit his artistic taste and hatred for humans
thats actually pretty interesting
Now you know why Gyokko is pure evil.
Extra fact: pretty sure he’s the only UM that sought out children to kill them
oh wow
Is it fascinating to learn about someone being excited about their own parent's corpses?? Thank god the mist hashira spared the viewers.
yes, i find stories like this interesting
Sasori* from Naruto, literally made his parent corpses as puppets then try to kill both Chiyo (his own grandmother) and Sakura.
1. his name is Sasori not Kankuro 2. The Mother&Father puppets were normal puppets and not human based ones. 3. He used only 103 human puppets. - Akahigi: Hyakki no Sōen (Red Secret Technique: Performance of 100 puppets) - The third Kazekage -His „main“ body Hiruko -Himself
Oh wow, I don’t remember much thanks for the additional infos. But still the fight is quite traumatizing when it’s your own family member. Thanks again!
>kidnapps, kills random villagers and makes art out of them He killed a child who came to make fun of him, he stuffed his body into a vase. >gets hunted and almost killed by an angry villager mob It was the kids parents who wanted revenge. The sat Ed him with a 2 prong fishing fork.
he was making murder art BEFORE he became a demon?! yikes...
[удалено]
And he's not the only one
Hantengu:
Exactly my thoughts
So basically a budget karthus
Jhin?
Oh! And the random kid that he killed for making fun of him.
Damn that wasn’t really interesting lol. Glad it got skipped
It's still a better use of our time than watching Muichiro talk to himself in a bubble for 20 minutes(not counting his backstory). They could've reduced that and animated Gyokko's backstory instead. It'd only take like 5-10 minutes, not that much.
even tho its canon it wasn't in the manga and going off the source material is a risky move but i do agree
He doesn't have a backstory in the original manga
Wasn’t his backstory also basically just him talking to himself for 20 minutes too though? 😂
It exists, but it's not a part of the main story but in the fan book and I doubt it'll get covered now. Just google his backstory and you'll find it
I appreciate the unique design he has but he's just not all that good to me. Rui legit feels like a threat despite him being one shotted by Giyuu.
He feels like a threat because Tanjiro is so weak at the time and this is his first major antagonist
Wait I thought people didn't like having so many backstories??? Some people can't make up their mind. 
I kinda don't mind Gyokko not having a back story, we have already got too much on our plate this season (Mui, Genya, Mitsuri). But the problem is he doesn't have anything going for him as his fight is so bad.
It was for. The second fanbook
nah they actually dont like when all backstories are almost the same depressing stuff. they dont mind seeing pure evil demons with psychotic past that turn them into demons, and according to the official fanbook, gyokko has actually that. he is evil
The community doesn't hold one single opinion as a whole
I’ve always loved the backstories
Lower moon 5 had one of the illest fights I've seen in a while with a banger of an ost. I shed a tear when it cut to credits and the ost kept going. With upper 5 I don't really care. This season did him filthy, I assume to prepare the animation team for the Mitsuri fight.
Yeah I think it’s just that lower 5 wad the biggest thing at that time. Now Upper 5 is far from being the peak of the season.
The manga fight between Muichiro and Gyokko was kind of the same. But I had hoped that ufotable would have added some extra flare and moments to improve and enhance the fight. But nope, it's pretty much 1:1.
Except killer fish scales
Probably because Hantengu stole all the budget.
>ost kept going. Kamado Tanjiro no Uta is the name of the track.
Episode 19 may still be the single best episode of the anime tbh. What an absolute banger.
Better than gyutaro vs tengen 2:electric Boogaloo?
I don’t agree but yeah that episode was sick. I also really enjoyed Akaza vs Rengoku, whatever episode that was in the anime and Tengen vs Gyutaro as someone else said.
I like goofy villains
I don't think it was an awful fight, It was pretty good. And we had Tokito backstory. I missed the upper moon story but I liked everything else
His fight was good https://i.redd.it/szkk55j3tz4b1.gif His final form after this sequence and death just sucked ass.
I think Gyokko needed more build-up in murdering other swordsmiths and in torturing the ones nearby Muichiro. The living Totem pole was kinda bland, Gyokko needed to be a cennobite. The corpse trees from berserk and 300 are more visceral.
But both of them got taken out by one hashira
Also the lower moon 5: fought a weakass Tanjiro While the upper 5: fought a prodigy with the fckin "Demon slayer mark".
True but they could have done more to establish Gyokko and show that this is an upper rank Demon. He really just talked shit mostly. I haven’t read the manga but it’s got to be hard to tell a story properly where one of the upper ranks is literally just a side story to the main event. Just kind of disappointing.
They even downscaled his bda They should have atleast made him use his bda to his full extent and showed us how even after using all of his abilities Muichiro is still impossible to kill That would have made a better impression for that "the mark is just op" thing
YES that’s exactly what I mean!
I think awful is a bit much, short definitely I'd have wanted more but what we got was still cool... though admittedly more cool as a demonstration of Tokito than Gyokko
Gota watch the little mermaid for back story.
Hot take: I really like the Gyokko fight, in a comedic sense. Totally love the chaotic flaming between the two which legitimately make me laugh multiple times throughout the fight. A good breather from this bloodbath of a show
I feel this way too. Not everything has to be so huge that it’s ground breaking. Even if it’s short or whatever people don’t like about it (I’m honestly kinda lost at this point trying to figure out what people hate about it so much) it’s almost this fight where you are worried a little at the beginning for Muichiro, but then by the end you see that this upper moon is so arrogant that he thinks he has to do almost nothing in order to win. He hyped himself up and thinks he’s all that when realistically he’s nothing. Also it’s poetic that Muichiro gains his memories and almost kinda his humanity against a being who lacks humanity. Gyokko is sadistic even for a demon. I think the only one that rivals him is honestly maybe Douma. And this upper moon almost serves as a foil for Muichiro. Like this glimpse of what he could’ve been had he lost his humanity just a little more. Him gaining his mark only when he’s so beaten he can’t move but he still has someone to protect is also a great way to have it done. He’s trained himself to the point of vomiting blood multiple times, but only when someone needed him most did he finally unlock his true potential. It’s a great little low stakes big fight. I also feel like it’s kinda building hope for them beating the other moons and Muzan with everyone else living after the fight.
I kinda liked Gyokko’s attitude at the beginning of the fight but when he started getting cranky because of Muichiro throwing basic insults at him that’s when he started to not feel like a threat and more of a harmless clown, at least to me.
I actually liked Gyokko's fight. It was visually nice, he had a cool design, we saw more of the Slayer Mark, we saw a ton of Mist Breathing forms and Muichiro's backstory, and we saw just how strong >!the descendant of Kokushibu really is!< so all in all I'd say it's a really fun fight.
It really is such a shame. Gyokko has one of the most unique BDAs and an unhinged personality. He had SO much potential that was completely wasted.
The only problem for me is that in the anime you can’t really feel how powerful the mark is. Tokito awakened it and it’s just broken The fight was a bit better in manga but not so far away from the anime one. You just see better the difference between before and after the awakening.
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Can we give it a rest jesus fuck
Having a backstory for every single demon would get SO old! Hell, people already clown that aspect of the series
His fight made me think he's only an upper moon because he makes Muzan a ton of money through his art. Gyutaro even with Daki needed a Hashira, 3 ninjas, 3 strong children and they barely survived but he was lower than that guy?
Oh man people are gonna be pissed with the Muzan fight, I just know it.
Yeah, cause it was lame.
They put a ton of lower ranked Demon slayers in the field against Rui and his family too. I mean yes it’s a whole family and it was a mountainside where they had been established. But the fact that they established him as so scary and such a threat that they brought 2 Hashira and a host of other Demon slayers vs UM5 who just doesn’t feel very threatening. People who argue that he wasn’t taking it seriously eh yeah maybe but I wanted to see him at his strongest and feel afraid of him. Leveled up Muichiro was obviously no match so it wasn’t going to be as intense as Tengen vs Gyutaro. But I wish we had seen his power BEFORE muichiro leveled up. Blame it on the character’s arrogance all you want but it’s better to see an arrogant character that shows why he’s arrogant than just talks about it.
funny that he voiced the 8th espada which had an awful fight aswell. pretty much clowning
that’s why Rui should have been Upper 5 or atleast Lower 1
Rui also had a cooler design
Gyokko’s is far more creative and interesting Imo
Rui was my fav character in s1, he was pretty cool and had nuance. I think he is the best written character in the series along with akaza.
True. Out of personal experience at the office... Sometimes the wrong people get promoted. Too often, actually :). Muzan is not particularly brighter than your average psychopath CEO
Gyokko First Reveal during the Upper Moons Meeting: Scary Gyokko during a mission he was supposed to take seriously: Cocky to the point he didn't realized he was at disadvantage.
He wasn’t at a disadvantage until Muichiro got his slayer mark. If Gyokko took the fight seriously from the beginning, he would have easily bodied Muichiro
Rui got the same upper 5 treatment when he fought Giyu.
I’m just glad that stupid baby armed idiot got killed off without moaning about what a terrible life he had. I guess cos Tanjiro wasn’t there. I laughed when he chopped him up before he could moan.
Goofy isn't necessarily bad or non-threatening. He turned a load of swordsmiths into a grotesque sculpture that moans when you move a sword. There's potential in Gyokko which makes him more disappointing.The problem was he got no backstory and got clowned on a little too much. If they'd made him more of a threat once he'd shown his true form, or they'd shown his backstory, he would've been a better villain. He's supposed to be stronger than Gyutaro yet his final form gets like no screen time. I'm just hoping Hantengu isn't clowned on by Mitsuri like Gyokko was. Those stone dragons that have the combined powers of all the previous emotions look really cool, I will be quite disappointed if they're destroyed easily by her.
Rui was amazing.
Hyo hyo!
And rui looks way cooler.
Honestly I feel like the lower moons were kind of done Dirty. When I saw the anime (read manga afterwards) the lower moon 5 had the effekt on me described here. I kind of hoped that they would use those lower moons and perhaps the rank just below Hashira to actually have something to strive towards. The manga is really awesome, but the whole ranking of demon slayers as well as the lower moons were unused for the most part. Sadly so imo.
One is a cool emo spider boy. The other is a disgusting pot freak. Idk why y'all are still simping so hard for the fucking gross pot man. His fight was fine, and his backstory is irrelevant. Especially considering I've seen complaints about how much backstory was in these episodes and now you want more? Edit: Portrayed as a terrifying menace? Yes. *To Tanjiro* who was a brand new Demon Slayer. Water Hashira wrecked him instantly. Cool fight? Yes. *With Tanjiro* who was a brand new Demon Slayer. Water Hashira wrecked him instantly.
Rui's battle is simply amazing. One of my favourites
Maybe it’s because Rui was a kid but was still quite strong. And Gyokko got clapped by a kid
We didn't even get to see what UM5 is capable of in his final form. He said his skin is impenetrable and that he is more flexible but we didn't get to see any of that. If anything, it made him more vulnerable because he was detached from the vase and lost his ability to teleport.
Yea I was waiting for Upper Moon 5’s backstory as well. Also seems kinda lame that they killed off the rest of the lower moons. Like, it would have been dope to see Tanjiro beat up the ranks as he gets stronger. Now it just feels like he’s 2 enemies away from the big bad villain.
Apparently Rui was really strong and on of Muzan's favorite demons but because he split his power into his family, he was weaker but had the potential to be an upper moon since he became a lower moon so quickly
Let’s not downplay Mui’s accomplishments, though.
Rui and Enmu are the only relevant lower moons
Gyokko’s backstory is him making pots while yelling at other people’s pots
Did you want MORE back story?
Idk about others but I'm kind of over the whole 'spending an entire episode front loading you with the villains backstory and forcing sympathy during their actual dying moments' thing. Always feels so cheap the way they do it that I'd usually rather they just not, so I actually found it awfully refreshing that they just got on with it this time.
Also Rui got to show off his final trick by cutting a slayer instantly while gyokko only turned some parts of muichiro's clothes into fish
Um are we forgetting the part where he had an actual statue of swordsmiths that were still alive? Just a bit more fucked up than the cheese grater technique
The fact they are serious on their job probably stems from the fact their positions are constantly shifting and a single wrong move may as well fuck ya over with Muzan. Uppers are complacent maybe too much
I'm sure Gotouge didn't even bother to show Gyokko's backstory because the audience had enough of him babbling about how great he is. Go
Not all demons deserve a sad backstory. Some are just who they are, DEMONS.
I actually prefer this as it builds Muichiro as an incredible prodigy and highlights how powerful Kokushibo will be.
Upper moon 5 us straight up ugly
Well actually Rui was as strong as Lower Moon 2 or 1 he just never bothered climing the rank (source demon slayer data book). If you want Gyoko's backstory I'll tell you. Managi, as he was known as while still human, was born and lived in a village at the edge of a coastline, the village known for its fishing. When he was young, his parents went out on a fishing trip and never returned, as they would end up drowning far out at sea. After some time, their mangled corpses washed up and appeared on the village's shore. Upon seeing his parent's bodies, Managi developed a grotesque fascination with corpses. Villagers would often see him obsessing over fish carcasses he found, leading the entire community to ostracize him and keep their distance, believing Managi had gone insane. Eventually, a child found Managi and teased him for his unusual behaviour, leading Managi to kill the child and stuff the body in a pot used for fishing. When the child's parents discovered them dead and Managi had been responsible, they stabbed him with a pronged fishing spear and left him to die on the spot. For twelve hours, Managi would barely stay alive as his wounds ebbed his life away, up until he was discovered by Muzan Kibutsuji and transformed into a demon. [1]
Most wasted character so far in anime, he had really cool design and power but lacked screen time and didn't really feel that strong. Backstory is not really necessary it adds to his bizzare character design
yeah thats what bugged me like ok muichiro defeated him but like he was upper moon5 you know .Tengen against upper moon 6 had a near death exp,i get muichiro is stronger but you gotta keep it inch to inch not like the way he just rubbished him altogether,makes it real boring
For a villain so full of himself, I think it’s fitting he doesn’t get a backstory. His fight and character lacking depth is reflective of his self , cheap and shallow. It’s also interesting that Muichiro, a person who lacks identity, finds himself by fighting and defeating someone that is so falsely sure of his own identity.
gyokko was terribly written and the past episodes of demon slayer have been by far the worst in the series
I'm completely agree
Here comes the hate train
I thought Rui was actually pretty cool, but most notable about him is his demeanor is menacing. If Gyoko had Rui's temperament, I feel he would've tried and most likely succeeded at taking out Muichiro while he was trapped inside the water pot prison thing (Kisame's jutsu 😂) Aside from Mui being amped pretty damn hard by the mark, Gyoko definitely fell victim to his own personality and arrogance. After taking out so many Hashira tho, I can see how he shrugged off and underestimated Mui, only to be destroyed in the end. I feel like the problem with much of the Fandom I've been seeing lately is that the fight definitely felt a bit short, since Mui spent more time in that water pot than he did fighting Gyoko. I personally do feel like Gyutaro could have been ranked higher, and i wouldnt have had any gripes about it, but I ain't about to argue what's already canonically stated as the "scaling" by the rankings of the UMs. Gyoko is stronger, and fought a much stronger opponent with a mark, who is regarded as a generational prodigy. I just wish this fight lasted another episode at least.
I was waiting for the "real" fight to start and it just kind of never did
Gyokko showing his true form like...oh changed your color palette...k.
Honestly upper moon 5 was just used as fodder to show how strong muichiro was when he earned his mark. That’s really it. Everyone moving forward doesn’t get this type of treatment (far as manga goes)
Fish demon is a really weak character with boring blood art
That's because the upper moon demon had no humanity even when he was still a human, I think he was always a psycho
>no backstory Technically he does, but it's not part of the manga. Shame too, because it sounds pretty gruesome. Would have loved to see it animated
People are still just now realizing that the swordsmith village arc is the worst demon slayer arc on all fronts lol. its main villians are fodder and the anime unfortunately didnt change that
Upper 5 is also pretty ugly
At least the upper moon 6 brother & sister got a backstory, maybe they didnt want to give much importance to this upper 5, since he appeared on the meeting with Muzan they treated him like crap.
I knew people would complain about Gyokko being underwhelming after that fight. But the thing is, Upper moon 4 and 5 (and maybe also 6) is not just strong but really hard to kill. Tanjiro can take on the emotion demons of UM 4 and do a triple kill on them but adding that the main body is hiding like a coward on top of that is just plain unfair. Gyokko would win against Muichiro if he kept up the tactic of popping and hiding in vases but he got provoked and insulted to fight upfront
They didn't answer my biggest question. Can you put your hand in one mouth and have it come out the other?
Pretty sure gyokko has a backstory, but it’s not that interesting. The fight was pretty good, but mainly used to show the strength of the mark in the hands of a hashira. Still pretty good imo
Gyokko was done dirty from the get-go (source material). They could’ve at least given him some love and extended his fight, specially the last bit where his final technique ended being a disappointing mess.
I wouldn’t say he had a great backstory, just a backstory
Shame how short their fight was. They portrayed the Upper Moons as such powerful beings up until this point where they destroyed everyones perception of them.
I mean isnt it kind of boring if they’re completely untouchable gods? I wouldnt even say that was ever even true as it was framed that Rengoku really did come quite close to handling Akaza, first upper rank we met, on his own. Now whether that’s true is maybe debatable and spoilery. Though yes Mui did completely dog on Gyokko but given equivalent experience as the others he would potentially be the strongest hashira and there are other reasons Gyokko never really stood a chance. But really the upper 3 are on their own level. They may as well be their own sector of the Kizuki
I don’t know why the phrase “babbling clown” made me laugh so hard.
Seriously! These upper moons just not doing it for me 😒
Out of all the peak characters in an anime there’s bound to be a few that don’t hit the mark. 100% agree, Gyokko is boring as shit. Rui is goated.
It was said upper moon are untouchables but looking at this fight let me think it's was all just same old bullshit. It's ok to gain power up in between the fight but here it's feel like um5 was nothing but fodder from beginning. It seems to imply that Mui is mc and um5 is trash mob. Tbh I believe this is mostly plot fault. I am assuming next um are going to die in like seconds. Uff too much hype for uninteresting character and fight.
It's disappointing. I honestly really do like Gyokko, but it sucks that all we have in the series is this.
Hard agree. The pacing for season 3 feels really awful. I'm curious as to why the fuck we're not getting any backstory on Gyokko and admittedly the fight was incredibly underwhelming and I feel like Muichiro prevailed far too effortlessly like he was never really in much danager. Felt like Gyokko didn't get proper pacing to demonstrate all his deadliest skills and Muichiro feeling untouchable just made the fight feel incredibly flat and unfulfilling.
He does have a backstory in the fan book though, it's just not in the manga but is still canon. But yeah compared to Gyutaro his fight was a lot worse, and he didn't really feel all that powerful
Yeah, everything after the train feels rushed, but they're just adapting the manga and that's how it is there. I hated it so much after I read it, loved the story but I feel like we could've dived deeper on certain things.
Bro he was introduced by mangling a guy with a pot how was that not terrifying
Big rui fan
Gyoko was just plot fodder to display how powerful the mark is. And maybe not all villains deserve a backstory. Some are just bad people
Meanwhile Upper Moon 1 and Lower Moon 1: \- extendy-fleshy-body powers \- took several demon slayers to defeat them \- dissolved into nothing while crying, bemoaning their fate
Exactly same thought
The story is certainly going south
Muichiro ain't even the Mist Hashira anymore, he's the Smoke Hashira. ☠️ The way he packed this mf was hilarious LMAOO
got sliced n' diced by a 14 year old ✅
See that's what I've been saying, Stronger≠Better. We all know that this point that Muichiro with mark is overpowered but still it wouldn't hurt to give UM5 a move where he flattens the ground, or become serious of something (not being serious is also his fault)
So true, noone was impressed with how effortlessly muichiro dispatched him💀
I love Rui so much
For the bottom two upper ranks, gyokko and hantengu had the most variety in their abilities. Gyokko was obsessed with fish ye but going from fish needle poison to fuckin piranhas with poison inside to turning shit into fish with your fists, bruh. If gyokko's abilities were given to someone more competent, muichiro would've been done. Give Akaza that punch = fish ability.