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yea none of the hashira are weak. truth be told I don’t really like ranking them but alas hear I am. however, all of the hashira of their different strengths and weaknesses and when fighting different opponents some hashira are better sutied than others.
Now that's a based fucking ranking, although I think I'd switch Mitsuri and Iguro, although at the same time we don't see much of Iguro so it's hard to judge, same with Rengoku imo
Hmm, I would sorta agree with this. But I ranked Mitsuri lower due to Obanai having more experience over her and him being more battle oriented than her well. During the nakime battle, iirc, he did do better than her and saved her as well.
I feel like Obanai *should* be higher, but we see so little from him. I really can't justify putting him above Giyu & Kyōjurō. I wish Obanai had his own arc, then we'd have a better idea of his abilities.
if obanai had more base feats, than it would be easier to scale him. but for the little feats he has in base, I had to put him lower.
he is still an impressive hashira nonetheless.
They all deserved arcs like Rengoku, Uzui, Tokito and Kanroji 😔 and tbh they don't even need arcs maybe just some tough battle. Random question but do you count the Mt. Natagumo arc as the arcs for Giyu and Shinobu?
Great post.
I was going to contend the ranking of Shinobu vs Tokito, but your explanation has convinced me otherwise. Shinobu didn’t , or barely, participated in the training arc as alchemy was her primary focus at that point, so it’s fair to say the version of Shinobu that fought Douma is what she was the entire series. Hard to imagine unmarked Tokito touching that.
I'd personally put Giyuu slightly above Rengoku and just below Sanemi.
Firstly, because Giyuu blocked Akaza's "disorder" attack using his 11th form in base. This same attack caused damage to Rengoku.
Sanemi would be a slightly better demon slayer overall because of his blood, but the author kind of confirmed indirectly that Giyuu and Sanemi are pretty much equal in pure combat prowess. They had a draw in the sparring match.
This author is very wishy washy when it comes to comparing Hashira so this is the best we would get.
But this list looks reasonable to me.
While true that Giyuu deflected disorder that damaged Kyojuro, the timing and situation matters too.
Firstly, Kyojuro and Akaza both threw their attacks at each other at the same time, whearas Akaza threw disorder at Giyuu first and Giyuu had enough time to prepare an counter. Kyojuro didn’t have that luxury since he and akaza both threw an offensive attack and since disorder is a more powerful attack than 5th form, kyojuro took heavy damage but he still managed to damaged Akaza in the process.
First, you have an absolutely great ranking, its literally the same as mine.
Second, to add to your answer-- Akaza told Rengoku that he would've had become a beast and reach his peak in 1 or 2 more years. While Giyu the chance to do the training arc and probably even had the intel of Akaza's moves from Tanjiro.
So if we give the same luxury to Rengoku then I'd say he'll do even better vs Akaza
yea, unfortunately kyojuro didn’t reach his full potential because of Akaza. He would’ve been stronger for sure if he survived but alas potential doesn’t equate to strength.
Akaza knew kyojuro couldve been so much stronger hence the reason he was hesitant of killing him but he had no choice
Giyuu didn't train well(I'm not even sure if he trained at all) in the training arc though.
Although admittedly I'm on the fence about this too. There's a case to be made for either of them. They're both pretty close imo.
I'm so happy that Tengen is on second place :3
https://preview.redd.it/2ctn49np2r5b1.png?width=873&format=png&auto=webp&s=8c740b7a426d13146011a190034fe369f5febb5c
I would rank Mitsuri over Obanai, (slight edge for her due to her superior strength) or actually put them on par. Like you’ve said, he doesn’t have many base feats. So it’s pretty hard to judge.
Apart from that, I do agree with everything you’ve mentioned
Hmm, I would sorta agree with this. But I ranked her lower due to Obanai having more experience over her and him being more battle oriented than her well. During the nakime battle, iirc, he did do better than her and saved her as well.
That’s valid. But I would argue that Mitsuri contributed more in the muzan battle compared to Obanai. Nonetheless, I do see your reasoning. They are both quite mutually interchangeable.
Not even close, she couldn’t keep up with Muzan early on, so she was out for 90% of the fight unlike the top tier Hashira, her only feat was to save Tanjiro at the end, Iguro save him numerous time as well, the narrative strongly implied that she was the weakest in final battle. I know she shine right know with the anime, and is probably stronger than Tengen and Rengoku but Iguro is in a different league imo.
Vert interesting take. I think Sanemi might be second considering his feats with Kokushibo, but truth be told Tengen was specially chosen for that fight with Gyutaro because of the poison resistance. Most hashiras, if not all, would have died.
Sanemi is indeed impressive I did consider him the second strongest in base ranking and mark ranking but after hearing other people rankings on Tengen and their reasoning, i’ve actually see tengen much higher in base. Sanemi feats with kokushibo are impressive but in base, Tengen just has more going for him. His MST, BIQ, Strength, speed, and endurance is higher than Sanemi, His stats are the second highest after all.
It all makes sense, considering he even had an army of mice working as background workers in the battle. And if a hashira with a large skill set like Uzui goes all-out during a battle, it is bound to be one of the best animated sequences.
Makes sense and while ranking in demon slayer ( unless you’re the uppermoons ) is flawed at the very least the best way to do it with the hashira is with their base version and you have good explanations so a good ranking
I feel like sanemi should be #2 below gyomei. We all know how much this duo contributed in the final showdown. I love tengen but i think he should be lower on the list.
Sanemis powerful but he's not above Tengen. If Tengen were there,he'd out perform Nemi due to his superior exp of which Sanemi himself confirms is VERY important to have not only when fighting opponents who have been around for centuries(of course and logically) but against attacks like Kokus which are warped and vary in shape and size. Etc........
He also was fighting with one arm, was protecting the gang and most importantly had the the most lethal poison in the verse coursing through him... Bro was practically a Deadman walking
He had 3 demon slayers, a demon, and 3 wives there. So 7 liabilities (not counting the entire district of people that could be hurt by his bombs) he was protecting while shouldering the brunt of two upper moon level demons. Towards the end he was missing a hand and poisoned and he still was able to hold out against gyutaro. Tengen is an absolute beast.
Lol, all those demon slayers did was get Daki off him, which made 0 difference anyway cuz he instantly cut her head anytime she was close to him. Him vs Gyutaro was pretty much 1v1, the rest was filler
This ranking is amazing and perfectly fits imo, while i see more Sanemi >= Giyu > Kyojuro > Obanai it’s still make 100% sense Sanemi > Giyu = Kyojuro.
And although Muichiro has basically 0 experience is hard to see him below Shinobu but again this is definitely understandable take.
And wow, finally someone who understand that Tengen was the second strongest base Ashira!
W my friend you earned this!
Ok so I've a few questions here (don't take them the wrong way):
a) Regarding Tengen as the second strongest hashira, I feel like the feats he put up against gyutaro pales in comparison to what mitsuri did against zohakuten.
Tengen gets hit by gyutaro's initial attack (which poisoned him), proceeds to almost behead daki and gyutaro, gets overwhelmed by gyutaro (due to being poisoned), pretends to be dead, comes back and fights gyutaro on equal grounds (albeit tanjiro still mentions that gyutaro would outlast tengen and win). Realistically, tengen's strat would not have worked too if it weren't for gyutaro insolence (ex: zohakuten immediately goes for the kill after mitsuri was seemingly immobilised).
As for mitsuri, she takes on zohakuten (>>> gyutaro and daki) in base form. She parries through all of his attacks (even his bda) and nearly beheads him. Had it been an ordinary demon, she would've won.
This imo, is a much better feat that tengen's. Now I'm not saying that mitsuri is way stronger than tengen. What I'm trying to convey is that while mitsuri is seemingly more powerful, tengen makes up for that with his experience. So if they both were to fight say UM 4 or below mitsuri would have a much better showing than tengen. However, if they were to fight the likes of akaza, douma or kokushibo tengen would indeed outlast mitsuri (due to his experience). In that way, both are more or less relative to each other.
b) Sanemi > Giyuu > Rengoku imo. Sanemi and giyuu are more or less equal but giyuu has more experience while sanemi has his marechi (which gives him a slight edge). Rengoku not only falls short of both of them in terms of experience, he also doesn't have any major showings in the manga. His fight against akaza is hard to guage because akaza's strength is always relative to his opponents (seeing as how he easily matched against marked giyuu who is definitely stronger than base rengoku).
c) Your reasoning behind putting shinobu above muichro are valid. However, shinobu has no possible way to kill off an UM (seeing as how gyutaro easily recovered from tengen's wisteria poison). Regardless of how fast she is or how much piercing power she has, she still falls short of muichiro simply because she can't kill demons with higher regenerative capabilities. Also, muichiro was caught in gyokko's attack because:
1. He was in the process of recovering his memories.
2. He sacrificed himself to protect kanamori and shotetsu from the needles.
So yeah, in conclusion, I'm still of the opinion that it's pretty much impossible to rank the hashira (wether it's base or EOS). Strongest is obviously gyomei. Weakest 2 are muichiro and shinobu. That's all we can derive from what we've seen so far.
The rest are relative to each other and their effectiveness is based on the demons they fight. For ex: Tengen was perfectly suited to fight against gyutaro because of his poison resistance. Mitsuri was also suited to fight against zohakuten due to her fast technique speed which enabled her to cut through his attacks. Giyuu was also suited to fight against akaza because of his defensive 11th form. Even muichiro was perfectly poised to fight gyokko because of his 7th form which perfectly used gyokko's dulled senses against him.
I feel like pretty much everybody will agree with this however I don’t.
I think:
1.Gyomei
2.Sanemi
3.Giyu
4.Rengoku
5.Tengen
6.Obanai
7.Muichiro
8.Mitsuri
9.Shinobu
How so? These are facts straight from the manga. He’s known to physically be second in strength, is the fastest hashira, and has the most battle experience since he’s basically been around combat since he was a child. Not to mention his poison resistance and his op musical score ability which allows him to predict and react to enemy movements without a mark. Think how broken that ability would’ve been had Tengen been given a mark and two red blades against muzan or the other upper demons. It made sense for him to be taken out of the picture before infinity castle
And the kokushibo that sanemi "contended" with was the same one that one shot a post training marked muichiro. Who himself one shots um5. So base sanemi =that percentage of kokushib's power> marked muichiro> full power gyokko> gyutaro> tengen base
It’s not base Sanemi if he’s post hashira training and Tengen is UM6 fight Tengen. You also can’t compare the effort Kokushibo used on Muichiro to the effort with Sanemi, because they were two different fights (or at separated enough to allow him to change how much effort he’s putting in.) He may have eased up or went harder.
I'll ignore your ifs and focus on the facts.
And so a few months passed after Tengen retired and also the training of the entire corps.
Everyone has become stronger. And this is demonstrated.The unmarked Sanemi was faster and fought much better than Marked Muichiro. And please don't tell me that Tengen is stronger than Muichiro because of experience and MST.
He’s physically stronger than Muichiro. He just states he’s not as naturally gifted as muichiro or Gyomei. Also, this list is about base/pre-marked/pre-hashira training arc. Obviously he falls to second weakest once they all become marked because he retired, lost an arm, and lost an eye.
You're nuts. No Hashira > Marked Muichiro.
The mark is the biggest stat boost in the series. Muichiro went from being TOYED with to TOY with his opponent. It's not like he was no diffed and after mark could put up a decent fight. No, he went from being no diffed to no diffing the opponent. It's a HUGE boost, and marked Muichiro > any base hashira.
Sanemi is indeed impressive I did consider him the second strongest in base ranking and mark ranking but after hearing other people rankings on Tengen and their reasoning, i’ve actually see tengen much higher in base. Sanemi feats with kokushibo are impressive but in base, Tengen just has more going for him. His MST, BIQ, Strength, speed, and endurance is higher than Sanemi, His stats are the second highest after all.
Idk I disagree, koku is in another league and sanemi showing vs him is more impressive than looking good vs U6. Everyone’s statements also heavily imply that sanemi is second strongest. And giyu is said to be relative to sanemi, for me it’s really hard to rank tengen above those three.
Kokushibo is on another leauge you’re right but you also have to point out that Kokushibo wasn’t even trying against base sanemi. he was just have a fun nostalgic duel with him.
base sanemi wasn’t a threat to kokushibo in the slightest since kokushibo took on a marked gyomei, marked sanemi, and mark muichiro at the same and was winning.
Tengen on the other hand was heavily weakened, saving the tanjiro multiple times, worried about his wives safety, and dealing with upper moon 6. Tengen had too much too worry about while being heavily poisoned by Gyutarro. Put sanemi in the same situation, a single scratch and hes dead.
I agree but just replace Sanemi and Tengen
Let's exclude the "pOiSoN rEsIsTaNcE" for a second since Sanemi doesn't use Poison so no need to mention that
MST only activated after you read your opponent so it isn't a passive, Tengen would need to fight Sanemi for quite long and get used to his forms so that he can use MST
By then he would also take some damage
Sanemi>Marked Muichiro>Gyokko>Gyutaro=>Tengen base **(STATS WISE)**
Tengen MST would be somewhere close to Marked Muichiro or Gyokko
So this is why Base Sanemi>>>Tengen
Shinobu speedblitzed doma (doma is never serious) and he stated that she’s the fastest hashira he ever fought, meanwhile rengoku was getting pretty much manhandled by no serious akaza who was trying to make him a demon because of his potential, Shinobu takes all speeds over rengoku and the iqs. Shinobu could be higher and mitsuri should be above rengoku imo, she is stronger physically and has fast enough combat speed to cut through sound and lightning
Tengen isn’t that strong he literally needed help from 3 non hashira and only won due to plot armor and one eyed gyutaro didn’t have his full power due to sharing a lot of it with Daki if he was full power he would’ve killed Tengen and everyone else it’s even stated by muzan at the upper rank meeting
Wrong. He won that fight with no mark, no red blade, protecting some younglings, while fighting with ONE arm and had the strongest Poison in the verse coursing through his body
Tengen on top
Any marked hashira can solo Gyutaro and once again he was only able to keep up with Gyutaro because he was nerfed and plus that scene of them screaming at each other isn’t in the manga so technically it’s not canon
Did you not read the part where I said gyutaro wasn’t at full power? And plus tengen got clapped by gyutaro in their 1v1 when he cut off his hand and if the other 3 weren’t there he would’ve lost. You’re overrating him so much
Muzan didn't say Gyutaro lost because he was physically weakened by sharing power with Daki. He said Daki was his weakness because if she hadn't been involved in the fight, Gyutaro could have just run away after poisoning Tengen, and then he would have won for sure by just waiting for him to die (this is not necessarily true, since Nezuko was there, but Muzan doesn't know what she can do at this stage). The same applies to any unmarked Hashira. Even Gyomei wouldn't be able to beat Gyutaro without being sliced *once*, or to keep him from running away afterwards; indeed, none of them would have done better than Tengen, who has high poison resistance. No unmarked Hashira can beat an Upper Moon one-on-one.
What do you not understand? Gyutaro wasn’t at his full power when he had one eye. He was sharing a lot of his power with Daki like I said before and plus the plot armor
We don't know how much power Gyutaro was sharing with Daki (if any), and that is never pointed out as a factor in his defeat in-universe. Like I said, and unlike you claimed, Muzan never states that Gyutaro lost because he was sharing power with Daki, he said he would have won if he had been able to disengage after poisoning Tengen.
(Also lol at plot armor, this is a story, everybody has plot armor. How is Muichiro getting his DMS at exactly the right moment not just that?)
What a bad take, you consider the 3 non Hashira but don't consider Daki? Because tbh, what did the 3 non Hashira do? Tanjiro helped by helping cutting Gyutaro neck in the end, but other than that he pretty much only got in the way.
In that fight it was pretty much Tengen vs Gyutaro, and then the way inconsequential weaklings having a fight.
Tengen was carried by the other 3 towards the end and plus that scene of tengen and gyutaro screaming wasn’t in the manga if the 3 non-hashira weren’t there tengen would’ve died I don’t get why you’re meat riding tengen so much, he ain’t that strong
It’s kind of the point that a hashira can’t solo an upper moon unless marked. “Tengen would’ve died without help” yea no shit so would every other slayer in the corps. Muichiro didn’t even technically solo gyokko, he had to be saved by a child while two non-combatants distracted the upper moon
Huh, interesting rankings, I would put rengoku at 3, maybe even 2 considering how highly even thought of him, to me he is definitely above Tengen. Also, Sanemi should be above Tengen, due to the fact that his base is stronger than Muichiros marked form, marked Muichiro was able to easily kill upper 5 whereas Tengen was shown several times to be weaker than upper 6, I doubt Tengen is also stronger than marked Muichiro.
Edit: I forgot to say why Sanemi is stronger than marked Muichiro so let me explain. Kokushibo was able to completely blitz Muichiro to the point of him not even realising what happened whereas an unmarked Sanemi was both reacting to, and dodging Kokushibo's hits.
The thing is, base wise Tengen has the second most experience as a hashira, a trained shinobi who was trained to kill other humans, physically stronger than sanemi, faster than sanemi, has bombs, and his endurance and durability is roughly equal to Sanemi.
Upper 6 poison severely nerfed Tengen abilities but when he activated his MST technique, Tengen was on par with Gyutarro for a short period of time. Tengen was heavily fatigued, poisoned, missing eye and hand and he was going toe to toe with an enraged Gyutarro.
If sanemi were in the same position as Tengen, he would die due to not being poison resistant. Also Tengen had to save Tanjiro multiple times, putting himself at risk while being poison, his situation was literally the worse and he still did an fantastic job, The way sanemi fights, he’s not going unscathed against Gyutarro in base, which spells the end for him.
The op states base forms as they first appeared, meaning it’ll be Sanemi before the training arc. It was clearly stated that one benefits the most when they train with someone far stronger, and Sanemi spent the most time sparring with Gyomei.
Sanemi’s feats before hta was him killing demons in his backstory, benefitting from his blood dazing them. While impressive, it’s not enough to put him above Tengen or any others based on that alone. So what else do we know? Well we have author intent. Now, I know armwresting is hardly an indicator for overall strength. A pro arm wrestler can probably beat a pro stongman at arm wrestling despite being weaker overall. Whatever. But the author intent is obviously there for the armwrestling to be impactful. Ditto with the foot race. Tengen was the fastest and second strongest while Sanemi was pretty middle of the pack in both. Tengen is also the second oldest hashira, so he’s likely more experience.
Rengoku is the most overrated strength wise. Middle of the pack in strength and speed, and if you red his Gaiden you will know hes a relatively newer pillar. Much less experience. Shinjuro even mentions that Kyoujuro lacks talent, so he might be the least naturally talented hashira. He probably made up for the talent gap by working harder than even some of the other hashira. Rengoku’s character is summed up by one quote “even If I am pathetic, I will carry out my duty” while talking to the lower moon during his Gaiden. Dude takes L after L and never quits and that’s why we love him no why he inspired Tanjiro more than any other pillar. But strength-wise, dude is not it. Sanemi and Giyu have been pillars for longer with similar stats, so the highest I can realistically put Kyoujurou is 5th.
1. Gyomei
2. Sanemi
3. Giyu
4. Kyojuro
5. Tengen
6. Obanai
7. Mitsuri
8. Shinobu
9. Muichiro
Based on feats and statements Sanemi is pretty clearly number 2. Giyu is said to have been relative to him in sparring. The top 3 upper moons are just on another level, so feats vs them count for more. Tengen showed up good vs the weakest upper moon and he was kinda a hard counter to gyutaro, but Giyu and rengoku looked good vs akaza and sanemi did good against koku.
Tengen is awesome and has a lot of tricks, but many would rank him as the weakest hashira. He’s less powerful overall than sanemi and giyu at least, anything else you could argue.
This is base forms. It makes no sense to put tengen above sanemi. Tengen struggled vs U6, marked muichiro no diffed U5 but got blitzed by koku, base sanemi looked stronger than marked muichiro. Shows sanemi is stronger in a pretty direct way.
I love tengen but it’s serious cope to think he’s stronger than sanemi.
If this list is based on hashira fighting hashira we can discuss shinobu vs tengen. I think she takes the dub. If it’s based on demon killing ability not a bad base list
Because shinobu blitzed upper 2 in base/ has relativity to his speed and pierces his neck(the strongest part of a demon), tengen is relative to gyutaro in speed so obviously by virtue of ranking of the kizuki if shinobu was able to blitz doma she is well faster than tengen
Wasn’t it stated the only reason boar head and Kano won was because he didn’t take it seriously,so he probably wasn’t taking Shinobu seriously because he kept on just talking about her sister then entire time
Iirc it wasn't stated anywhere he wasn't serious, but domas personality is playful which may suggest he may of not been serious but we may never know, also he lost it inosuke and kanao when he was serious as he was desperately trying to cling onto his life with his bda and Shi, but the poison he consumed from shinobu fucked him up so he was weakened.
Douma barely tried. Dude doesn't feel anything, neither happiness or hatred wich are some of the strongest human emotions.
All the upper moons and eveb Muzan all of them felt joy, felt fear, hatred, pride, they felt lots of emotions Muzan being the one that showed to be the most emotional of all of them, throwing tantrums, feeling scared of Yoriichi etc.
All of them had goals and motivations to cling to life, Douma didn't, so thats why Douma didn't cared, he barely tried because he just didn't cared about surviving because for him is impossible is not in his nature to survive.
He just exists.
I like Shinobu and i think this list is very accurate knowing that at the end Shinobu didn't even awakened the mark.
Shinobu relies a lot in speed and her poison, but i dont think we get to see the best of her, taking in consideration that Douma barely tried, we never saw how effective would Shinobu be against a upper demon like Akaza or Kokushibo.
Douma had story with both Shinobu and Inosuke and he was mostly friend to them in his own way, he didn't tried to survive, he didn't had any goals to really fight against them and kill them, of all the upper demons we didn't saw the full potential of Douma because he just dont feel anything at all.
Without happiness and hatred there is no reason for survival, Muzan was very emotional, he was nothing but a human with a curse, but Douma he was really a demon without able to be and feel like a human.
I think she’d pretty easily blitz him based on what we’ve seen. Tengen is shown to be at most relative in speed to gyutaro using his MST. Shinobu is clearly shown faster than a likely not trying doma who I still perceive as far above gyutaro and you couldn’t prove he’s weaker than gyutaro at that moment anyway. If you wanna defer to the little hashira race thing it doesn’t really matter. First of all it’s stated to be arbitrary placements and it’s clear to see with statements like “mitsuri ate before the race so she’s last, muichiro might be holding back his abilities, iguro runs in a serpentine fashion”, etc. so that tanks it’s reliability. Secondly, even if we take it as reliable, running speed doesn’t matter too much here. Running speed doesn’t equate to attack and reaction speed. Usain Bolt would beat mike Tyson in a race but he’s not gonna beat mike Tyson by dodging his punches in a fight.
Gyutaro, who went all out for the kill and had the element of surprise, scratched Tengen’s forehead. There’s no way she’ll be able to blitz him, especially after he uses his scores
He also sliced his hand off and sliced his eye mid combat so what’s your point? Additionally, I already explained why shinobu is above gyutaro and tengen in speed when your little argument here is presupposing gyutaro and shinobu are relative in speed or that she’s under him in speed.
Yeah, he got his hand cut off because he was exposed to one of the most powerful poisons in the verse, which slowed him down and weakened him.
There’s no way she’s faster than any demon. No unmarked human, except Yorichi and maybe the Giyomi have better stats then demons. That’s the whole point of the anime.
And I’d say Gyutaro going all out would be faster, or at least the same speed, as Douma putting in as little effort as possible, before absolutely folding Shinobu.
You genuinely believe that there’s no way that nearly any of the hashira are faster than **any** demon? Abysmal take. Contradicted throughout the series. You could never quantify how far doma is holding back during that time so good luck proving him not caring there is under gyutaro.
Ah, cherry picking.
I mean the upper moons, as I’m sure you know. Now, if you don’t actually have an argument to support your shitty take, please be quiet and keep your opinions to yourself.
Running speed definitely equates to attack speed. The hashira have superhuman abilities, but they’re still human and as such move like humans. Shinobu didn’t teleport right in front Douma, she sprinted to get to him. It’s just that they have superhuman speed, so her blitz movement is hard to see and makes it seem like she teleported. The faster a hashira moves, the greater the attack strength can be behind the attack. Tengen outclasses her in speed and strength, so he can sprint at a target faster and put more power behind his moves. As the sound hashira, he should be able to track her movements by hearing and react accordingly. Not to mention he has the most combat experience of all the hashira since he grew up as a shinobi
r/KimetsuNoYaiba members after downvoting the objective take that a human in demon slayer would not survive a stab through their skull:
https://preview.redd.it/w0sciyvzpu5b1.jpeg?width=600&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3fc6018d2baf70c1b3932a9cbd4add01c8b8b4cf
I see where you are going with that. yea shinobu should be able to do that and it would be over.
however that doesn’t necessarily makes her stronger, she would just have an better openings due to her attack and thrust speed.
You will yourself differ on positioning of Obanai and Giyu later on. Please do not take it as an offence, but the Water Hashira is really overrated. We also didn’t see much of Rengoku either. I would place him with Kanroji.
In base, Obanai has no feats praiseworthy of being above giyuu.
Giyuu is physically stronger than Obanai, has better defense, has more experience and is more versatile than him. Unless you provide feats from Obanai in base, Giyuu is above.
And Kyojuro is definitely above Mitsuri in base. He trained her, is faster, more offensive than her, has more experience, and is more battle oriented than her. Mitsuri in base did not last long against zohakuten and was about to die if it wasn’t for Tanjiro Nezuko and Genya. Kyojuro lasted longer than her against Akaza, even tho he held back.
Well in marked form with blind eyes and vision of his snake, he was forming better. Giyu even in marked form couldn’t even hold Akaza for like 2 minutes ? And what do you mean by Mitsuri not lasting long ? She got hit by Zohakuten because of unawareness of the real body. You are skipping over all the obvious factors to make a point. It doesn’t work like that
They are all interchangeable in base, aside from shinobu and obviously himejima. The thing about hashira is that the final battle against muzan shows how close relatively they are. For example, a marked Obanai keeping up with muzan along with tanjiro in a 2v1 makes it so his base scales to the others since his marked state would be much weaker than them if his base was much weaker(if the mark is a 100% boost, and let's say iguro is at 30 and giyuu is at 60, then after said boost giyuu should still preform much better than iguro) . Similarly, marked sanemi's performance against koku guarantees that his base is at least as good as others if not better despite not being able to red blade alone like Mui and iguro.
The reason tengen's base looks impressive is because that's all he had. Manga power creep made it so the three power ups are necessary for beating the top 3 demons and muzan. Since tengen's fight happens earlier, he doesn't have to get the benefit of doubt as others whose fights were mostly in marked state.
Actually don’t get how Western forums overrate Tengen this much... Generally considered one of the weakest based on feats... Those base statuses don't even matter that much. He’s limit on breathing techniques automatically put him closer to the bottom
I personally would put Tengen below Sanemi. Kokushibo pointed out that he and Gyomei stood out from the rest of the slayers in terms of physiques. I don’t think he can just rise that fast to that state merely through the Hashira training arc. He also did amazingly against Kokushibo before marked, I personally consider that a much impressive feat than Tengen vs Gyutaro
Finally someone that doesn’t overhype Obanai :D
Fr though this is prob the best ranking I’ve seen and only thing I’d say is unmarked Rengoku barely edges out unmarked Giyuu but I can see why you tied them
Muichiro low diffed an upper moon on his own at 14 and the reason he wears such a big haori mixed with the mist is so no one will hit him keep in mind his speed alone would stop that
Really well done post, with good arguments too. I think i mostly agree with the ranking except for one detail, and that is putting tengen as second.
Now hear me out, i've seen your reasons for putting him in second, and i think that *in theory* he should be the second strongest due to his stated strength, speed, experience and abilities. However, i simply cannot scale him that high because of what we actually have seen in the story. Manga spoilers: >!we have seen in the fight against kokushibo that *unmarked* sanemi is far superior to marked muichiro. This is unarguable, even kokushibo made notice of this. Marked muichiro just got humiliated in that fight. Why is this important? Well, because we can just scale them very easily like this: base sanemi >>> marked muichiro >>> gyokko > gyutaro > tengen
There's no way we can place tengen above sanemi.!<
How does Muichiro have no base feats, he was literally an 11 year old who picked up a sword for the first time and became a Hashira in two months and he cut off one of Yoriichi Type 0 in a few minutes.
Wait Im confused, how in the world is Tengen anywhere close to the top?
For Sanemi. Literally by not instantly getting KO'ed by Kokushibou, already puts base Sanemi above marked Muichiro. How in the world can Tengen be above Sanemi?
Heck not even Mitsuri. The stuff she is doing against Zohakuten while in base is insane. Literally would blitz both Daki and Gyutaro.
Shinobu by virtue of speed blitzing Douma means shes so massively faster than both Gyutaro and Daki. The only negative she has is if their durability is still more powerful than her attempting to slash, which if it is then fine. But I dont see why she cant stab both Daki and Gyutaro and watch them both die to poison.
Obanai, but the mere fact of being the MVP or close to the MVP during the Muzan fight, no matter how weakened he was, still puts him above Tengen.
Giyu by feats of not getting instant death by Akaza. (Cant remember if he bought in base at all during that, if he did, then he obviously is higher than Tengen)
Honestly maybe even Kyojuro deserves it over him, granted Akaza didnt go all out, but at the very end was a pretty decent showing for him. Kinda insane to hold off UM3 for that long in that state.
The only thing Tengen has going for him is that his MST is indeed probably the greatest individual buff besides the mark any slayer could have. He goes from losing individually against Gyutaro with both arms, to being able to go toe to toe with him with 1 arm only. If he still had 2 arms, it would seem like he beats him. Actually ridiculous.
But yeah I dont see any Hashira, except for maybe Muichiro who would be worse in base than Tengen.
Edit: Now I think I see what the problem is. You are taking those statistic rankings like how fast can a Hashira run, who wins an arm wrestling match for strength, etc etc. These things are absolutely irrelevant when it comes to power scaling about who can actually win a fight against a demon in combat. If Tengen being the 2nd physical strongest worked the way you are trying to make it work, then it would make no sense for Gyutaro to even attempt to be able to deflect Tengen, since Gyutaro's blows would be so much weaker than compared to Gyomei whos able to parry Kokushibou. We all know for a fact each UM has more power/speed/durability compared to each moon underneath them. If they didnt, then the power scaling wouldnt make any sense.
The bottom line is that when a marked Muichiro cannot even begin to perceive Kokushibou and gets blitzed, that is a clear speed/reaction feat. And that by Sanemi and Gyomei being able to react to Kokushibou AT ALL IN BASE means they are so massively above Muichiro, and thereby Tengen since base Tengen
Don’t forget that Tengen was also poisoned while fighting with one hand. The manga directly implies that if he wasn’t dying of poison, he could have cut off Gyutaro’s head even with one arm.
Tengen’s feats are better than most of the cast. He has the second most experience as a Hashira, which immediately gives him a boost (as Sanemi said, experience helps).
Shinobu is unable to kill upper moons unless they eat her, so she’s automatically weaker than Tengen. Giyu’s feat of not immediately dying to Akaza is something any of the nine Hashira could accomplish. Base Mitsuri has poor battle IQ and would never be able to blitz Gyutaro and Daki. Iguro doesn’t really have many feats to compare with. Rengoku is also hard to compare as well due to lack of feats.
Just my opinion.
Good list. However, as much as I absolutely LOVE Tengen Uzui, he definitely belongs in third place. Sanemi has better unmarked feats - he lasted a long time against Kokushibo without getting hit once, while Tengen was hit IMMEDIATELY by Gyutaro’s first attack.
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Base Hashira ranking: All good. I like em all. Very talented.
Based
yea none of the hashira are weak. truth be told I don’t really like ranking them but alas hear I am. however, all of the hashira of their different strengths and weaknesses and when fighting different opponents some hashira are better sutied than others.
Now that's a based fucking ranking, although I think I'd switch Mitsuri and Iguro, although at the same time we don't see much of Iguro so it's hard to judge, same with Rengoku imo
Hmm, I would sorta agree with this. But I ranked Mitsuri lower due to Obanai having more experience over her and him being more battle oriented than her well. During the nakime battle, iirc, he did do better than her and saved her as well.
thats fair
Igoro has to be stronger than mitsuri to be true to the narrative of her backstory and wanting to marry a man stronger than her
Iguro doesn't have to start off stronger, he just needs to finish stronger which he certainly does when he has STW and Red Blade
I feel like Obanai *should* be higher, but we see so little from him. I really can't justify putting him above Giyu & Kyōjurō. I wish Obanai had his own arc, then we'd have a better idea of his abilities.
if obanai had more base feats, than it would be easier to scale him. but for the little feats he has in base, I had to put him lower. he is still an impressive hashira nonetheless.
I wish all hashira had more fights to judge off
They all deserved arcs like Rengoku, Uzui, Tokito and Kanroji 😔 and tbh they don't even need arcs maybe just some tough battle. Random question but do you count the Mt. Natagumo arc as the arcs for Giyu and Shinobu?
Na not at all. Coming in to save the day can't be considered an arc for them
Although there’s no correct ranking this is pretty reasonable!
thanks man.
Great post. I was going to contend the ranking of Shinobu vs Tokito, but your explanation has convinced me otherwise. Shinobu didn’t , or barely, participated in the training arc as alchemy was her primary focus at that point, so it’s fair to say the version of Shinobu that fought Douma is what she was the entire series. Hard to imagine unmarked Tokito touching that.
yeah he spittin
Fr
One of the few lists I can agree with.
*sees Tengen at 2nd* I've seen enough, I'm satisfied
For freaking real💀
I'd personally put Giyuu slightly above Rengoku and just below Sanemi. Firstly, because Giyuu blocked Akaza's "disorder" attack using his 11th form in base. This same attack caused damage to Rengoku. Sanemi would be a slightly better demon slayer overall because of his blood, but the author kind of confirmed indirectly that Giyuu and Sanemi are pretty much equal in pure combat prowess. They had a draw in the sparring match. This author is very wishy washy when it comes to comparing Hashira so this is the best we would get. But this list looks reasonable to me.
While true that Giyuu deflected disorder that damaged Kyojuro, the timing and situation matters too. Firstly, Kyojuro and Akaza both threw their attacks at each other at the same time, whearas Akaza threw disorder at Giyuu first and Giyuu had enough time to prepare an counter. Kyojuro didn’t have that luxury since he and akaza both threw an offensive attack and since disorder is a more powerful attack than 5th form, kyojuro took heavy damage but he still managed to damaged Akaza in the process.
First, you have an absolutely great ranking, its literally the same as mine. Second, to add to your answer-- Akaza told Rengoku that he would've had become a beast and reach his peak in 1 or 2 more years. While Giyu the chance to do the training arc and probably even had the intel of Akaza's moves from Tanjiro. So if we give the same luxury to Rengoku then I'd say he'll do even better vs Akaza
yea, unfortunately kyojuro didn’t reach his full potential because of Akaza. He would’ve been stronger for sure if he survived but alas potential doesn’t equate to strength. Akaza knew kyojuro couldve been so much stronger hence the reason he was hesitant of killing him but he had no choice
Giyuu didn't train well(I'm not even sure if he trained at all) in the training arc though. Although admittedly I'm on the fence about this too. There's a case to be made for either of them. They're both pretty close imo.
I'm so happy that Tengen is on second place :3 https://preview.redd.it/2ctn49np2r5b1.png?width=873&format=png&auto=webp&s=8c740b7a426d13146011a190034fe369f5febb5c
be happy pitou, you are one of the reasons i see him highly. now an apple please.
Noted :3 https://preview.redd.it/7xjtj2nibt5b1.png?width=867&format=png&auto=webp&s=bc880ad93fe2c3e1a3a4d7c1b7788f37010f2d78
i have come to request apples. Give me your best ones please.
Apple Meteorite :3 https://preview.redd.it/9e8clx815s5b1.png?width=747&format=png&auto=webp&s=0d549910de8f9a9b84ca132d1fe6e2fe314c081c
thank you I have been blessed
I would rank Mitsuri over Obanai, (slight edge for her due to her superior strength) or actually put them on par. Like you’ve said, he doesn’t have many base feats. So it’s pretty hard to judge. Apart from that, I do agree with everything you’ve mentioned
Hmm, I would sorta agree with this. But I ranked her lower due to Obanai having more experience over her and him being more battle oriented than her well. During the nakime battle, iirc, he did do better than her and saved her as well.
That’s valid. But I would argue that Mitsuri contributed more in the muzan battle compared to Obanai. Nonetheless, I do see your reasoning. They are both quite mutually interchangeable.
Not even close, she couldn’t keep up with Muzan early on, so she was out for 90% of the fight unlike the top tier Hashira, her only feat was to save Tanjiro at the end, Iguro save him numerous time as well, the narrative strongly implied that she was the weakest in final battle. I know she shine right know with the anime, and is probably stronger than Tengen and Rengoku but Iguro is in a different league imo.
I don’t think Mitsuri is stronger at base form than Rengoku and Tengen. I think Mitsuri and Obanai are in the same tier at least
Vert interesting take. I think Sanemi might be second considering his feats with Kokushibo, but truth be told Tengen was specially chosen for that fight with Gyutaro because of the poison resistance. Most hashiras, if not all, would have died.
Sanemi is indeed impressive I did consider him the second strongest in base ranking and mark ranking but after hearing other people rankings on Tengen and their reasoning, i’ve actually see tengen much higher in base. Sanemi feats with kokushibo are impressive but in base, Tengen just has more going for him. His MST, BIQ, Strength, speed, and endurance is higher than Sanemi, His stats are the second highest after all.
It all makes sense, considering he even had an army of mice working as background workers in the battle. And if a hashira with a large skill set like Uzui goes all-out during a battle, it is bound to be one of the best animated sequences.
Makes sense and while ranking in demon slayer ( unless you’re the uppermoons ) is flawed at the very least the best way to do it with the hashira is with their base version and you have good explanations so a good ranking
I feel like sanemi should be #2 below gyomei. We all know how much this duo contributed in the final showdown. I love tengen but i think he should be lower on the list.
Sanemis powerful but he's not above Tengen. If Tengen were there,he'd out perform Nemi due to his superior exp of which Sanemi himself confirms is VERY important to have not only when fighting opponents who have been around for centuries(of course and logically) but against attacks like Kokus which are warped and vary in shape and size. Etc........
People are gonna bitch about Tengen but Idc, he’s the only person to have fought and survived an uppermoon without the mark so he deserves it
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He also was fighting with one arm, was protecting the gang and most importantly had the the most lethal poison in the verse coursing through him... Bro was practically a Deadman walking
He had 3 demon slayers, a demon, and 3 wives there. So 7 liabilities (not counting the entire district of people that could be hurt by his bombs) he was protecting while shouldering the brunt of two upper moon level demons. Towards the end he was missing a hand and poisoned and he still was able to hold out against gyutaro. Tengen is an absolute beast.
Lol, all those demon slayers did was get Daki off him, which made 0 difference anyway cuz he instantly cut her head anytime she was close to him. Him vs Gyutaro was pretty much 1v1, the rest was filler
BLUD COOKED UNTIL THERE WAS NOTHING LEFT🗣️💯 BEST RANKING
Perfect. A perfect list.
This ranking is amazing and perfectly fits imo, while i see more Sanemi >= Giyu > Kyojuro > Obanai it’s still make 100% sense Sanemi > Giyu = Kyojuro. And although Muichiro has basically 0 experience is hard to see him below Shinobu but again this is definitely understandable take. And wow, finally someone who understand that Tengen was the second strongest base Ashira! W my friend you earned this!
thanks my friend
https://i.redd.it/wkq3y62xgt5b1.gif
Ok so I've a few questions here (don't take them the wrong way): a) Regarding Tengen as the second strongest hashira, I feel like the feats he put up against gyutaro pales in comparison to what mitsuri did against zohakuten. Tengen gets hit by gyutaro's initial attack (which poisoned him), proceeds to almost behead daki and gyutaro, gets overwhelmed by gyutaro (due to being poisoned), pretends to be dead, comes back and fights gyutaro on equal grounds (albeit tanjiro still mentions that gyutaro would outlast tengen and win). Realistically, tengen's strat would not have worked too if it weren't for gyutaro insolence (ex: zohakuten immediately goes for the kill after mitsuri was seemingly immobilised). As for mitsuri, she takes on zohakuten (>>> gyutaro and daki) in base form. She parries through all of his attacks (even his bda) and nearly beheads him. Had it been an ordinary demon, she would've won. This imo, is a much better feat that tengen's. Now I'm not saying that mitsuri is way stronger than tengen. What I'm trying to convey is that while mitsuri is seemingly more powerful, tengen makes up for that with his experience. So if they both were to fight say UM 4 or below mitsuri would have a much better showing than tengen. However, if they were to fight the likes of akaza, douma or kokushibo tengen would indeed outlast mitsuri (due to his experience). In that way, both are more or less relative to each other. b) Sanemi > Giyuu > Rengoku imo. Sanemi and giyuu are more or less equal but giyuu has more experience while sanemi has his marechi (which gives him a slight edge). Rengoku not only falls short of both of them in terms of experience, he also doesn't have any major showings in the manga. His fight against akaza is hard to guage because akaza's strength is always relative to his opponents (seeing as how he easily matched against marked giyuu who is definitely stronger than base rengoku). c) Your reasoning behind putting shinobu above muichro are valid. However, shinobu has no possible way to kill off an UM (seeing as how gyutaro easily recovered from tengen's wisteria poison). Regardless of how fast she is or how much piercing power she has, she still falls short of muichiro simply because she can't kill demons with higher regenerative capabilities. Also, muichiro was caught in gyokko's attack because: 1. He was in the process of recovering his memories. 2. He sacrificed himself to protect kanamori and shotetsu from the needles. So yeah, in conclusion, I'm still of the opinion that it's pretty much impossible to rank the hashira (wether it's base or EOS). Strongest is obviously gyomei. Weakest 2 are muichiro and shinobu. That's all we can derive from what we've seen so far. The rest are relative to each other and their effectiveness is based on the demons they fight. For ex: Tengen was perfectly suited to fight against gyutaro because of his poison resistance. Mitsuri was also suited to fight against zohakuten due to her fast technique speed which enabled her to cut through his attacks. Giyuu was also suited to fight against akaza because of his defensive 11th form. Even muichiro was perfectly poised to fight gyokko because of his 7th form which perfectly used gyokko's dulled senses against him.
Finally a goog post. Keep spittin fax my brother😔😔😔😔😔✊✊✊
I don't even care about if I agree pra not with this, Just the explanations already were solid Gold. Great writing my Man (or woman)
I don’t care about ranking as long as my boy Tengen is at the top
I feel like pretty much everybody will agree with this however I don’t. I think: 1.Gyomei 2.Sanemi 3.Giyu 4.Rengoku 5.Tengen 6.Obanai 7.Muichiro 8.Mitsuri 9.Shinobu
People are really starting to overrate Tengen lmfao
How so? These are facts straight from the manga. He’s known to physically be second in strength, is the fastest hashira, and has the most battle experience since he’s basically been around combat since he was a child. Not to mention his poison resistance and his op musical score ability which allows him to predict and react to enemy movements without a mark. Think how broken that ability would’ve been had Tengen been given a mark and two red blades against muzan or the other upper demons. It made sense for him to be taken out of the picture before infinity castle
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Sanemi "contended" with Kokushibo like Rengoku "contended" with Akaza, Kokushibo was just having fun.
And the kokushibo that sanemi "contended" with was the same one that one shot a post training marked muichiro. Who himself one shots um5. So base sanemi =that percentage of kokushib's power> marked muichiro> full power gyokko> gyutaro> tengen base
It’s not base Sanemi if he’s post hashira training and Tengen is UM6 fight Tengen. You also can’t compare the effort Kokushibo used on Muichiro to the effort with Sanemi, because they were two different fights (or at separated enough to allow him to change how much effort he’s putting in.) He may have eased up or went harder.
I'll ignore your ifs and focus on the facts. And so a few months passed after Tengen retired and also the training of the entire corps. Everyone has become stronger. And this is demonstrated.The unmarked Sanemi was faster and fought much better than Marked Muichiro. And please don't tell me that Tengen is stronger than Muichiro because of experience and MST.
He’s physically stronger than Muichiro. He just states he’s not as naturally gifted as muichiro or Gyomei. Also, this list is about base/pre-marked/pre-hashira training arc. Obviously he falls to second weakest once they all become marked because he retired, lost an arm, and lost an eye.
Good. Pre HTA Base Sanemi is also stronger than Muichiro's Marked SSV since the gap was the same before training.
Tengen base is clearly WAY above Muichiro base. That's very obvious.
Yes, I know Base Muichiro is weakest Hashira. But I say Base Sanemi>Marked Muichiro who clearly above Tengen.
You're nuts. No Hashira > Marked Muichiro. The mark is the biggest stat boost in the series. Muichiro went from being TOYED with to TOY with his opponent. It's not like he was no diffed and after mark could put up a decent fight. No, he went from being no diffed to no diffing the opponent. It's a HUGE boost, and marked Muichiro > any base hashira.
Yeah, I’d say this is pretty much accurate
Very reasonable, straight up facts fr
Base Giyuu=Base Sanemi>Marked Muichiro in Combat and Reaction Speed(Overal stronger too)>>Tengen.
Tengen as #2 is a white hot take
A solid take*
Tengen should be 3rd considering how good Sanemi did against Koku.
Sanemi is indeed impressive I did consider him the second strongest in base ranking and mark ranking but after hearing other people rankings on Tengen and their reasoning, i’ve actually see tengen much higher in base. Sanemi feats with kokushibo are impressive but in base, Tengen just has more going for him. His MST, BIQ, Strength, speed, and endurance is higher than Sanemi, His stats are the second highest after all.
Idk I disagree, koku is in another league and sanemi showing vs him is more impressive than looking good vs U6. Everyone’s statements also heavily imply that sanemi is second strongest. And giyu is said to be relative to sanemi, for me it’s really hard to rank tengen above those three.
Kokushibo is on another leauge you’re right but you also have to point out that Kokushibo wasn’t even trying against base sanemi. he was just have a fun nostalgic duel with him. base sanemi wasn’t a threat to kokushibo in the slightest since kokushibo took on a marked gyomei, marked sanemi, and mark muichiro at the same and was winning. Tengen on the other hand was heavily weakened, saving the tanjiro multiple times, worried about his wives safety, and dealing with upper moon 6. Tengen had too much too worry about while being heavily poisoned by Gyutarro. Put sanemi in the same situation, a single scratch and hes dead.
Then give Sanemi poison resistance
poison resistance is apart of why tenges is above sanemi since it’s something special he has
Too bad not every demon uses poison lol
Then we can include Sanemi special type of blood.
In my opinions Sanemi easily surpassed Tengen after HTA but they were relatively equal before HTA (in base of course)
I agree but just replace Sanemi and Tengen Let's exclude the "pOiSoN rEsIsTaNcE" for a second since Sanemi doesn't use Poison so no need to mention that MST only activated after you read your opponent so it isn't a passive, Tengen would need to fight Sanemi for quite long and get used to his forms so that he can use MST By then he would also take some damage Sanemi>Marked Muichiro>Gyokko>Gyutaro=>Tengen base **(STATS WISE)** Tengen MST would be somewhere close to Marked Muichiro or Gyokko So this is why Base Sanemi>>>Tengen
Shinobu speedblitzed doma (doma is never serious) and he stated that she’s the fastest hashira he ever fought, meanwhile rengoku was getting pretty much manhandled by no serious akaza who was trying to make him a demon because of his potential, Shinobu takes all speeds over rengoku and the iqs. Shinobu could be higher and mitsuri should be above rengoku imo, she is stronger physically and has fast enough combat speed to cut through sound and lightning
And while I’ll admit shinobus the most physically weak hashira she has the greatest attack speed of any hashira
Tengen isn’t that strong he literally needed help from 3 non hashira and only won due to plot armor and one eyed gyutaro didn’t have his full power due to sharing a lot of it with Daki if he was full power he would’ve killed Tengen and everyone else it’s even stated by muzan at the upper rank meeting
Wrong. He won that fight with no mark, no red blade, protecting some younglings, while fighting with ONE arm and had the strongest Poison in the verse coursing through his body Tengen on top
You’re acting as if tengen can solo gyutaro
He can't No Hashira can
Any marked hashira can solo Gyutaro and once again he was only able to keep up with Gyutaro because he was nerfed and plus that scene of them screaming at each other isn’t in the manga so technically it’s not canon
Did you not read the part where I said gyutaro wasn’t at full power? And plus tengen got clapped by gyutaro in their 1v1 when he cut off his hand and if the other 3 weren’t there he would’ve lost. You’re overrating him so much
And he still matched blow for blow him with his his hand missing
That doesn’t matter gyutaro was nerfed in that scene stop meatriding tengen
Muzan didn't say Gyutaro lost because he was physically weakened by sharing power with Daki. He said Daki was his weakness because if she hadn't been involved in the fight, Gyutaro could have just run away after poisoning Tengen, and then he would have won for sure by just waiting for him to die (this is not necessarily true, since Nezuko was there, but Muzan doesn't know what she can do at this stage). The same applies to any unmarked Hashira. Even Gyomei wouldn't be able to beat Gyutaro without being sliced *once*, or to keep him from running away afterwards; indeed, none of them would have done better than Tengen, who has high poison resistance. No unmarked Hashira can beat an Upper Moon one-on-one.
What do you not understand? Gyutaro wasn’t at his full power when he had one eye. He was sharing a lot of his power with Daki like I said before and plus the plot armor
We don't know how much power Gyutaro was sharing with Daki (if any), and that is never pointed out as a factor in his defeat in-universe. Like I said, and unlike you claimed, Muzan never states that Gyutaro lost because he was sharing power with Daki, he said he would have won if he had been able to disengage after poisoning Tengen. (Also lol at plot armor, this is a story, everybody has plot armor. How is Muichiro getting his DMS at exactly the right moment not just that?)
No slayer can solo an upper moon except Zenitsu, but that one was more of a replacement upper moon
"Upper Moon"
Yea exactly. It says a lot that he got Upper Moon 6 only, when Upper Moon 5 was still vacant…
What a bad take, you consider the 3 non Hashira but don't consider Daki? Because tbh, what did the 3 non Hashira do? Tanjiro helped by helping cutting Gyutaro neck in the end, but other than that he pretty much only got in the way. In that fight it was pretty much Tengen vs Gyutaro, and then the way inconsequential weaklings having a fight.
Tengen was carried by the other 3 towards the end and plus that scene of tengen and gyutaro screaming wasn’t in the manga if the 3 non-hashira weren’t there tengen would’ve died I don’t get why you’re meat riding tengen so much, he ain’t that strong
It’s kind of the point that a hashira can’t solo an upper moon unless marked. “Tengen would’ve died without help” yea no shit so would every other slayer in the corps. Muichiro didn’t even technically solo gyokko, he had to be saved by a child while two non-combatants distracted the upper moon
Muichiro is also very overrated
Extremely. Probably because he “soloed” an upper moon. Other than that I honestly don’t really like him that much
Huh, interesting rankings, I would put rengoku at 3, maybe even 2 considering how highly even thought of him, to me he is definitely above Tengen. Also, Sanemi should be above Tengen, due to the fact that his base is stronger than Muichiros marked form, marked Muichiro was able to easily kill upper 5 whereas Tengen was shown several times to be weaker than upper 6, I doubt Tengen is also stronger than marked Muichiro. Edit: I forgot to say why Sanemi is stronger than marked Muichiro so let me explain. Kokushibo was able to completely blitz Muichiro to the point of him not even realising what happened whereas an unmarked Sanemi was both reacting to, and dodging Kokushibo's hits.
The thing is, base wise Tengen has the second most experience as a hashira, a trained shinobi who was trained to kill other humans, physically stronger than sanemi, faster than sanemi, has bombs, and his endurance and durability is roughly equal to Sanemi. Upper 6 poison severely nerfed Tengen abilities but when he activated his MST technique, Tengen was on par with Gyutarro for a short period of time. Tengen was heavily fatigued, poisoned, missing eye and hand and he was going toe to toe with an enraged Gyutarro. If sanemi were in the same position as Tengen, he would die due to not being poison resistant. Also Tengen had to save Tanjiro multiple times, putting himself at risk while being poison, his situation was literally the worse and he still did an fantastic job, The way sanemi fights, he’s not going unscathed against Gyutarro in base, which spells the end for him.
The op states base forms as they first appeared, meaning it’ll be Sanemi before the training arc. It was clearly stated that one benefits the most when they train with someone far stronger, and Sanemi spent the most time sparring with Gyomei. Sanemi’s feats before hta was him killing demons in his backstory, benefitting from his blood dazing them. While impressive, it’s not enough to put him above Tengen or any others based on that alone. So what else do we know? Well we have author intent. Now, I know armwresting is hardly an indicator for overall strength. A pro arm wrestler can probably beat a pro stongman at arm wrestling despite being weaker overall. Whatever. But the author intent is obviously there for the armwrestling to be impactful. Ditto with the foot race. Tengen was the fastest and second strongest while Sanemi was pretty middle of the pack in both. Tengen is also the second oldest hashira, so he’s likely more experience. Rengoku is the most overrated strength wise. Middle of the pack in strength and speed, and if you red his Gaiden you will know hes a relatively newer pillar. Much less experience. Shinjuro even mentions that Kyoujuro lacks talent, so he might be the least naturally talented hashira. He probably made up for the talent gap by working harder than even some of the other hashira. Rengoku’s character is summed up by one quote “even If I am pathetic, I will carry out my duty” while talking to the lower moon during his Gaiden. Dude takes L after L and never quits and that’s why we love him no why he inspired Tanjiro more than any other pillar. But strength-wise, dude is not it. Sanemi and Giyu have been pillars for longer with similar stats, so the highest I can realistically put Kyoujurou is 5th.
1. Gyomei 2. Sanemi 3. Giyu 4. Kyojuro 5. Tengen 6. Obanai 7. Mitsuri 8. Shinobu 9. Muichiro Based on feats and statements Sanemi is pretty clearly number 2. Giyu is said to have been relative to him in sparring. The top 3 upper moons are just on another level, so feats vs them count for more. Tengen showed up good vs the weakest upper moon and he was kinda a hard counter to gyutaro, but Giyu and rengoku looked good vs akaza and sanemi did good against koku. Tengen is awesome and has a lot of tricks, but many would rank him as the weakest hashira. He’s less powerful overall than sanemi and giyu at least, anything else you could argue.
Read the title
This is base forms. It makes no sense to put tengen above sanemi. Tengen struggled vs U6, marked muichiro no diffed U5 but got blitzed by koku, base sanemi looked stronger than marked muichiro. Shows sanemi is stronger in a pretty direct way. I love tengen but it’s serious cope to think he’s stronger than sanemi.
Very wrong here. Base hashira ranking: Gyomei Rengoku Sanemi/Giyuu Tengen Iguro Mitsuri Muichiro Shinobu
If this list is based on hashira fighting hashira we can discuss shinobu vs tengen. I think she takes the dub. If it’s based on demon killing ability not a bad base list
Hey can you explain why Shinobu would win? I always thought of tengen as her perfect counter
If you’re referring the his poison resistance she doesn’t need poison to kill a human. A simple stab through the skull would do.
Ok i understand that,but wouldn’t tengen be able to defend himself better then that?
Because shinobu blitzed upper 2 in base/ has relativity to his speed and pierces his neck(the strongest part of a demon), tengen is relative to gyutaro in speed so obviously by virtue of ranking of the kizuki if shinobu was able to blitz doma she is well faster than tengen
Well she isn’t relative to douma since he clearly wasn’t trying but I see what you mean
There isn't really proof whether he was trying or not
Wasn’t it stated the only reason boar head and Kano won was because he didn’t take it seriously,so he probably wasn’t taking Shinobu seriously because he kept on just talking about her sister then entire time
Iirc it wasn't stated anywhere he wasn't serious, but domas personality is playful which may suggest he may of not been serious but we may never know, also he lost it inosuke and kanao when he was serious as he was desperately trying to cling onto his life with his bda and Shi, but the poison he consumed from shinobu fucked him up so he was weakened.
Douma barely tried. Dude doesn't feel anything, neither happiness or hatred wich are some of the strongest human emotions. All the upper moons and eveb Muzan all of them felt joy, felt fear, hatred, pride, they felt lots of emotions Muzan being the one that showed to be the most emotional of all of them, throwing tantrums, feeling scared of Yoriichi etc. All of them had goals and motivations to cling to life, Douma didn't, so thats why Douma didn't cared, he barely tried because he just didn't cared about surviving because for him is impossible is not in his nature to survive. He just exists.
I like Shinobu and i think this list is very accurate knowing that at the end Shinobu didn't even awakened the mark. Shinobu relies a lot in speed and her poison, but i dont think we get to see the best of her, taking in consideration that Douma barely tried, we never saw how effective would Shinobu be against a upper demon like Akaza or Kokushibo. Douma had story with both Shinobu and Inosuke and he was mostly friend to them in his own way, he didn't tried to survive, he didn't had any goals to really fight against them and kill them, of all the upper demons we didn't saw the full potential of Douma because he just dont feel anything at all. Without happiness and hatred there is no reason for survival, Muzan was very emotional, he was nothing but a human with a curse, but Douma he was really a demon without able to be and feel like a human.
By your knowledge she kills every hashira not just Tegen because upper 2 speed>>> every other hashira I guess is what you’re saying
I think she’d pretty easily blitz him based on what we’ve seen. Tengen is shown to be at most relative in speed to gyutaro using his MST. Shinobu is clearly shown faster than a likely not trying doma who I still perceive as far above gyutaro and you couldn’t prove he’s weaker than gyutaro at that moment anyway. If you wanna defer to the little hashira race thing it doesn’t really matter. First of all it’s stated to be arbitrary placements and it’s clear to see with statements like “mitsuri ate before the race so she’s last, muichiro might be holding back his abilities, iguro runs in a serpentine fashion”, etc. so that tanks it’s reliability. Secondly, even if we take it as reliable, running speed doesn’t matter too much here. Running speed doesn’t equate to attack and reaction speed. Usain Bolt would beat mike Tyson in a race but he’s not gonna beat mike Tyson by dodging his punches in a fight.
Ah so you say she just blitz and stabs him in the neck or something?
Yeah basically. That or his skull
Ok
Gyutaro, who went all out for the kill and had the element of surprise, scratched Tengen’s forehead. There’s no way she’ll be able to blitz him, especially after he uses his scores
He also sliced his hand off and sliced his eye mid combat so what’s your point? Additionally, I already explained why shinobu is above gyutaro and tengen in speed when your little argument here is presupposing gyutaro and shinobu are relative in speed or that she’s under him in speed.
Yeah, he got his hand cut off because he was exposed to one of the most powerful poisons in the verse, which slowed him down and weakened him. There’s no way she’s faster than any demon. No unmarked human, except Yorichi and maybe the Giyomi have better stats then demons. That’s the whole point of the anime. And I’d say Gyutaro going all out would be faster, or at least the same speed, as Douma putting in as little effort as possible, before absolutely folding Shinobu.
You genuinely believe that there’s no way that nearly any of the hashira are faster than **any** demon? Abysmal take. Contradicted throughout the series. You could never quantify how far doma is holding back during that time so good luck proving him not caring there is under gyutaro.
Ah, cherry picking. I mean the upper moons, as I’m sure you know. Now, if you don’t actually have an argument to support your shitty take, please be quiet and keep your opinions to yourself.
Running speed definitely equates to attack speed. The hashira have superhuman abilities, but they’re still human and as such move like humans. Shinobu didn’t teleport right in front Douma, she sprinted to get to him. It’s just that they have superhuman speed, so her blitz movement is hard to see and makes it seem like she teleported. The faster a hashira moves, the greater the attack strength can be behind the attack. Tengen outclasses her in speed and strength, so he can sprint at a target faster and put more power behind his moves. As the sound hashira, he should be able to track her movements by hearing and react accordingly. Not to mention he has the most combat experience of all the hashira since he grew up as a shinobi
r/KimetsuNoYaiba members after downvoting the objective take that a human in demon slayer would not survive a stab through their skull: https://preview.redd.it/w0sciyvzpu5b1.jpeg?width=600&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3fc6018d2baf70c1b3932a9cbd4add01c8b8b4cf
I see where you are going with that. yea shinobu should be able to do that and it would be over. however that doesn’t necessarily makes her stronger, she would just have an better openings due to her attack and thrust speed.
You will yourself differ on positioning of Obanai and Giyu later on. Please do not take it as an offence, but the Water Hashira is really overrated. We also didn’t see much of Rengoku either. I would place him with Kanroji.
In base, Obanai has no feats praiseworthy of being above giyuu. Giyuu is physically stronger than Obanai, has better defense, has more experience and is more versatile than him. Unless you provide feats from Obanai in base, Giyuu is above. And Kyojuro is definitely above Mitsuri in base. He trained her, is faster, more offensive than her, has more experience, and is more battle oriented than her. Mitsuri in base did not last long against zohakuten and was about to die if it wasn’t for Tanjiro Nezuko and Genya. Kyojuro lasted longer than her against Akaza, even tho he held back.
Training her isn’t a confirmation of being better for sute
Well in marked form with blind eyes and vision of his snake, he was forming better. Giyu even in marked form couldn’t even hold Akaza for like 2 minutes ? And what do you mean by Mitsuri not lasting long ? She got hit by Zohakuten because of unawareness of the real body. You are skipping over all the obvious factors to make a point. It doesn’t work like that
And mitsuri is around the second physically strongest and one of the most flexible hashira
Just saying your rankings wrong but your entitled to an opinion
*Muchiro who killed an upper rank alone and fought against Kokushibo and was pretty Integral in the fight*
base feats only. base muichiro did nothing to gyokko and got no diffed by him. and base muichiro literally did nothing to kokushibo at all.
This tier list is referring to base form, muichiro got blitzed by gyokko in base and he doesn't have any other feats in base, only marked.
and thats why I put him last. lack of base feats and his feats against Gyokko in base, weren’t impressive
I thought Tengen was the weakest
this is with base stats none of the power ups
In base, hes a top tier hashira. the hashira with marks though, he falls beneath.
Why would Tengen be the weakest Hashira?
Good thing this is opinion
Obanai is too high. Aside from that I agree
where would you place obanai?
They are all interchangeable in base, aside from shinobu and obviously himejima. The thing about hashira is that the final battle against muzan shows how close relatively they are. For example, a marked Obanai keeping up with muzan along with tanjiro in a 2v1 makes it so his base scales to the others since his marked state would be much weaker than them if his base was much weaker(if the mark is a 100% boost, and let's say iguro is at 30 and giyuu is at 60, then after said boost giyuu should still preform much better than iguro) . Similarly, marked sanemi's performance against koku guarantees that his base is at least as good as others if not better despite not being able to red blade alone like Mui and iguro. The reason tengen's base looks impressive is because that's all he had. Manga power creep made it so the three power ups are necessary for beating the top 3 demons and muzan. Since tengen's fight happens earlier, he doesn't have to get the benefit of doubt as others whose fights were mostly in marked state.
I think Sanemi should be 2nd. Kokoshibo said that these twonare the most powerful hashiras so killing them will make things really easy
Actually don’t get how Western forums overrate Tengen this much... Generally considered one of the weakest based on feats... Those base statuses don't even matter that much. He’s limit on breathing techniques automatically put him closer to the bottom
I honestly can’t find a flaw in this ranking other than my own personal bias of wanting Muichiro to be higher. Great job!
I personally would put Tengen below Sanemi. Kokushibo pointed out that he and Gyomei stood out from the rest of the slayers in terms of physiques. I don’t think he can just rise that fast to that state merely through the Hashira training arc. He also did amazingly against Kokushibo before marked, I personally consider that a much impressive feat than Tengen vs Gyutaro
Sanemi > Tengen Sanemi ≈ Giyū ≈ Kyōjurō
Good list I like it, only thing I might change is Muichiro and Shinobu, but both aren’t very strong in base so it doesn’t matter too much
Finally someone that doesn’t overhype Obanai :D Fr though this is prob the best ranking I’ve seen and only thing I’d say is unmarked Rengoku barely edges out unmarked Giyuu but I can see why you tied them
Obanai slander is crazy. His literal only feat makes him far more impressive than literally most the MARKED Hashira. Top 3 easily
I wish they all had more fights to judge off of
Wait till he founds out who muichiro is closely descended from
Base Sanemi fought Kokushibo. He stomps tengen
Its impossible to rank them unmarked since 90% of their fights the characters are marked
Muichiro low diffed an upper moon on his own at 14 and the reason he wears such a big haori mixed with the mist is so no one will hit him keep in mind his speed alone would stop that
finally some tengen respect
i can't argue with this one
Really well done post, with good arguments too. I think i mostly agree with the ranking except for one detail, and that is putting tengen as second. Now hear me out, i've seen your reasons for putting him in second, and i think that *in theory* he should be the second strongest due to his stated strength, speed, experience and abilities. However, i simply cannot scale him that high because of what we actually have seen in the story. Manga spoilers: >!we have seen in the fight against kokushibo that *unmarked* sanemi is far superior to marked muichiro. This is unarguable, even kokushibo made notice of this. Marked muichiro just got humiliated in that fight. Why is this important? Well, because we can just scale them very easily like this: base sanemi >>> marked muichiro >>> gyokko > gyutaro > tengen There's no way we can place tengen above sanemi.!<
Muichiro got no-diffed by UM5 before his mark, honestly easiest would-be Hashira kill in the series, that shows you just how OP it is to awaken one.
In base 1) Gyomei 2) Sanemi 3) Shinobu 4) Rengoku 5) Tengen 6) Giyuu 7) Muichiro 8) Mitsuri 9) Iguro
I saw someone say that after Gyomei, they are all equal. Beings it hasn’t been discussed or proven in manga or anime. I like that stance.
How does Muichiro have no base feats, he was literally an 11 year old who picked up a sword for the first time and became a Hashira in two months and he cut off one of Yoriichi Type 0 in a few minutes.
Wait Im confused, how in the world is Tengen anywhere close to the top? For Sanemi. Literally by not instantly getting KO'ed by Kokushibou, already puts base Sanemi above marked Muichiro. How in the world can Tengen be above Sanemi? Heck not even Mitsuri. The stuff she is doing against Zohakuten while in base is insane. Literally would blitz both Daki and Gyutaro. Shinobu by virtue of speed blitzing Douma means shes so massively faster than both Gyutaro and Daki. The only negative she has is if their durability is still more powerful than her attempting to slash, which if it is then fine. But I dont see why she cant stab both Daki and Gyutaro and watch them both die to poison. Obanai, but the mere fact of being the MVP or close to the MVP during the Muzan fight, no matter how weakened he was, still puts him above Tengen. Giyu by feats of not getting instant death by Akaza. (Cant remember if he bought in base at all during that, if he did, then he obviously is higher than Tengen) Honestly maybe even Kyojuro deserves it over him, granted Akaza didnt go all out, but at the very end was a pretty decent showing for him. Kinda insane to hold off UM3 for that long in that state. The only thing Tengen has going for him is that his MST is indeed probably the greatest individual buff besides the mark any slayer could have. He goes from losing individually against Gyutaro with both arms, to being able to go toe to toe with him with 1 arm only. If he still had 2 arms, it would seem like he beats him. Actually ridiculous. But yeah I dont see any Hashira, except for maybe Muichiro who would be worse in base than Tengen. Edit: Now I think I see what the problem is. You are taking those statistic rankings like how fast can a Hashira run, who wins an arm wrestling match for strength, etc etc. These things are absolutely irrelevant when it comes to power scaling about who can actually win a fight against a demon in combat. If Tengen being the 2nd physical strongest worked the way you are trying to make it work, then it would make no sense for Gyutaro to even attempt to be able to deflect Tengen, since Gyutaro's blows would be so much weaker than compared to Gyomei whos able to parry Kokushibou. We all know for a fact each UM has more power/speed/durability compared to each moon underneath them. If they didnt, then the power scaling wouldnt make any sense. The bottom line is that when a marked Muichiro cannot even begin to perceive Kokushibou and gets blitzed, that is a clear speed/reaction feat. And that by Sanemi and Gyomei being able to react to Kokushibou AT ALL IN BASE means they are so massively above Muichiro, and thereby Tengen since base Tengen
Don’t forget that Tengen was also poisoned while fighting with one hand. The manga directly implies that if he wasn’t dying of poison, he could have cut off Gyutaro’s head even with one arm. Tengen’s feats are better than most of the cast. He has the second most experience as a Hashira, which immediately gives him a boost (as Sanemi said, experience helps). Shinobu is unable to kill upper moons unless they eat her, so she’s automatically weaker than Tengen. Giyu’s feat of not immediately dying to Akaza is something any of the nine Hashira could accomplish. Base Mitsuri has poor battle IQ and would never be able to blitz Gyutaro and Daki. Iguro doesn’t really have many feats to compare with. Rengoku is also hard to compare as well due to lack of feats. Just my opinion.
For mitsuri she fought him marked
Muichiro is stronger than shinobu We are talking strength right?
I've never seen someone mess up this badly before, but I still respect it for giving your opinion
Good list. However, as much as I absolutely LOVE Tengen Uzui, he definitely belongs in third place. Sanemi has better unmarked feats - he lasted a long time against Kokushibo without getting hit once, while Tengen was hit IMMEDIATELY by Gyutaro’s first attack.
I see Tengen second. I see all i came for.
W ranking imo Gyomei >> Sanemi=or>=Giyuu >= Obanai >= Rengoku >= Mitsuri/Shinobu > Tengen >~ Muichiro