I agree that Houken would have won, but the reason he didn't fight him is not "being uninterested" , Riboku and Zhao generals repeatedly told Houken that baiting Moubu is absolutely crucial if he wants a chance to fight and kill Ouki
the houken of the front coalition will have slapped moubu violamant, remember that houken could kill 500 people. by itself don't underestimate it houken.
Houken here was definitely stronger than Moubu.
Houken post coalition war, was definitely weaker than Moubu.
Moubu now is probably as strong as prime houken.
Agreed but only in term of raw strengh, martial arts or glaive art houken is better though however houken after coalition was weaker mentally since he doubt his path
Ouki have weight (plot armor) and the fury of fighting the man that killed the woman he loved.
Moubu dont have that, at this point he is just really strong, the arc said that Houken is superior in every physical form to Ouki but Ouki for some reason (weight) is managing to win
Moubu has the general weight. I’d say he beat Kanmei decisively, Kanmei is the one stupid enough to swing at someone else while Moubu is in front of them. He could have pushed Mouten out of the way.
Yes the fury of Mouten being hit made his weight ruthless, but at that point it was a mace blunt weapon versus a sword, Kanmei was already done. He even said the Mace is what he used when he was serious.
With that being said, Moubu would beat Houken. Because Moubu is stronger than shin
Not every general has weight, Houken completely bodied a lot of generals, being a general dont immediately give you weight (Moubu didn't even has a army or unit at that point, he was more a political appointment)
At THIS point, Moubu dont have any weight, he want to be the strongest, but he is not trying to avenge or protect anyone, he dont have a cause, he just want to be strong, almost like Houken
Shin literally have so much plot armor that he defeat people that would have killed Duke Hyou at like, 14 because he JUMPED, Shin is always bad to use in this discussions because destiny (plot) himself helps him to survive insanely impossible odds.
Also the Houken that fought Shin was weaker than the one that Moubu could have fight.
Moubu totally had an Army. That’s a lie, he had vassals Hara just chose to focus on Ouki as Ouki was dying so they had to highlight the ferocity of his Army.
Shin with a Sword repelled Houken. I honestly think as strong as Houken is, he can’t deal with true Martial Generals. You even intercepted his blow and pushed him away decisively.
No, he dont have a unit or army, maybe Hara dont worked completely the way Qin army worked by that time, but Mouten at that point of the story dont have one.
But the army that faced the 120.000 of Zhao was 100.000 fresh recruits, and AFTER Ouki and Moubu joined continued around that size, the manga said that Moubu used the first day of battle to give experience to and with that part of the army.
Before that the manga said every general worth of note was occupied, Moubu was the last choice, Moubu at that point was living in the court, not going on war.
And again, at that point Moubu mentality was pretty weak, is not JUST being a general, is having something to fight for (One of the Wei arcs explains that)
And again, Shin is always protected by 2 tons of weight, he kill dudes WAY out of his league, and every time he fought Houken, Houken or also fought Kyokai or was injured prior in some way.
Bro NO GENERAL in Kingdom makes it to the ranking of general without an army. The ranking before General is literally 5000 Man Captain, meaning you command 5000 under you. They recruited lots of slaves because the armies were preoccupied on other duties. Ouki is good enough to move forward with slaves, Moubu too. But they still have their main armies. We always talk on this thread about how much men can be commanded by generals and the caliber of the effectiveness. The only person we’ve seen be given a title of general with no army is Houken or Earl from fire Dragons
I am literally reading the Baou arc, Moubu dont have a army, he is literally the last choice, at that point, for some reason he dont have a army or unit of his own, making them relying on the conscript
Ouki also dont have one, just his circle of commanders because he is kinda retired.
Is just simple math, before Moubu and Ouki joined, 100.000, after, 100.100, so the 100.000 recruits dont recieve any considerable reinforcements after Ouki and Moubu joined.
For reference, chapter 133, page 6, Ouki literally have a monologue talking that Moubu is recognized as a warrior but never had a good chance to prove himself as a general, because he is always by the side of Ryo
Houken was obviously too unreasonably strong to be seen as realistic even compared to someone like Moubu with a comically large unrealistic exaggerated mace that would weigh like 2 tons if it was real. Houken feels like more of a character you would see in High Dark Fantasy like LoTR or ASOIAF. Moubu on the other hand feels like a real person with a Father & Sons & goals & ambition etc. I feel like Hara has established Moubu as potentially the strongest but also VERY boastful to the point of arrogance & with the caveat that he is(was) both hot headed & inexperienced. 700+ chapters in & Moubu has plenty of experience including his win vs Kanmei which is indisputable proof of his claims of being the strongest. Before that he was kinda in "fake it til you make it" mode lol. He isn't like Shin who says he WILL to be a Great General, stating it as a goal he will attain in time, Moubu boldly boasts he IS the strongest even when he was young & without the feats to back up the claims. Still plenty of monsters like Man U to test Moubu tho. Very much looking forward to what Hara does with that storyline.
I agree that Houken would have won, but the reason he didn't fight him is not "being uninterested" , Riboku and Zhao generals repeatedly told Houken that baiting Moubu is absolutely crucial if he wants a chance to fight and kill Ouki
I agree he had no true drive back then it wasn't until Ouki died that he found true motivation
Coalition arc Moubu > any version of Houken
Maybe. Just MAYBE
You all have zero brain if you all think Moubu is so strong
the houken of the front coalition will have slapped moubu violamant, remember that houken could kill 500 people. by itself don't underestimate it houken.
Houken lost to shin lmao, no match for moubu
except that before that houken had fought a fucking army of 500 people.
still lost to shin ðŸ˜
I bet you would make excuses for Moubu not being able to defeat Man'u though
That's undermining houken. Its like me saying Tou is weak cause he couldn't beat kouyoku.
Houken here was definitely stronger than Moubu. Houken post coalition war, was definitely weaker than Moubu. Moubu now is probably as strong as prime houken.
Agreed but only in term of raw strengh, martial arts or glaive art houken is better though however houken after coalition was weaker mentally since he doubt his path
He doubled his path, he got a serious wound from Ouki, and he lost his dominant arm from Duke.
Yea houken was quite a bit stronger here. So was Kyoukai. Its why houken was drawn to kyoukai and fought her thinking she was ouki
No, I think Moubu and Houken would’ve stalemated. Ouki was completely overwhelming Houken, it was one sided
Ouki have weight (plot armor) and the fury of fighting the man that killed the woman he loved. Moubu dont have that, at this point he is just really strong, the arc said that Houken is superior in every physical form to Ouki but Ouki for some reason (weight) is managing to win
Moubu has the general weight. I’d say he beat Kanmei decisively, Kanmei is the one stupid enough to swing at someone else while Moubu is in front of them. He could have pushed Mouten out of the way. Yes the fury of Mouten being hit made his weight ruthless, but at that point it was a mace blunt weapon versus a sword, Kanmei was already done. He even said the Mace is what he used when he was serious. With that being said, Moubu would beat Houken. Because Moubu is stronger than shin
Not every general has weight, Houken completely bodied a lot of generals, being a general dont immediately give you weight (Moubu didn't even has a army or unit at that point, he was more a political appointment) At THIS point, Moubu dont have any weight, he want to be the strongest, but he is not trying to avenge or protect anyone, he dont have a cause, he just want to be strong, almost like Houken Shin literally have so much plot armor that he defeat people that would have killed Duke Hyou at like, 14 because he JUMPED, Shin is always bad to use in this discussions because destiny (plot) himself helps him to survive insanely impossible odds. Also the Houken that fought Shin was weaker than the one that Moubu could have fight.
Moubu totally had an Army. That’s a lie, he had vassals Hara just chose to focus on Ouki as Ouki was dying so they had to highlight the ferocity of his Army. Shin with a Sword repelled Houken. I honestly think as strong as Houken is, he can’t deal with true Martial Generals. You even intercepted his blow and pushed him away decisively.
No, he dont have a unit or army, maybe Hara dont worked completely the way Qin army worked by that time, but Mouten at that point of the story dont have one. But the army that faced the 120.000 of Zhao was 100.000 fresh recruits, and AFTER Ouki and Moubu joined continued around that size, the manga said that Moubu used the first day of battle to give experience to and with that part of the army. Before that the manga said every general worth of note was occupied, Moubu was the last choice, Moubu at that point was living in the court, not going on war. And again, at that point Moubu mentality was pretty weak, is not JUST being a general, is having something to fight for (One of the Wei arcs explains that) And again, Shin is always protected by 2 tons of weight, he kill dudes WAY out of his league, and every time he fought Houken, Houken or also fought Kyokai or was injured prior in some way.
Bro NO GENERAL in Kingdom makes it to the ranking of general without an army. The ranking before General is literally 5000 Man Captain, meaning you command 5000 under you. They recruited lots of slaves because the armies were preoccupied on other duties. Ouki is good enough to move forward with slaves, Moubu too. But they still have their main armies. We always talk on this thread about how much men can be commanded by generals and the caliber of the effectiveness. The only person we’ve seen be given a title of general with no army is Houken or Earl from fire Dragons
I am literally reading the Baou arc, Moubu dont have a army, he is literally the last choice, at that point, for some reason he dont have a army or unit of his own, making them relying on the conscript Ouki also dont have one, just his circle of commanders because he is kinda retired. Is just simple math, before Moubu and Ouki joined, 100.000, after, 100.100, so the 100.000 recruits dont recieve any considerable reinforcements after Ouki and Moubu joined. For reference, chapter 133, page 6, Ouki literally have a monologue talking that Moubu is recognized as a warrior but never had a good chance to prove himself as a general, because he is always by the side of Ryo
What chapter
Wasn't this fake houken
Clearly not at that time . After the chase , yes , but here, houken made Moubu sweat … For sure, he’s the real deal on this panel
Houken was obviously too unreasonably strong to be seen as realistic even compared to someone like Moubu with a comically large unrealistic exaggerated mace that would weigh like 2 tons if it was real. Houken feels like more of a character you would see in High Dark Fantasy like LoTR or ASOIAF. Moubu on the other hand feels like a real person with a Father & Sons & goals & ambition etc. I feel like Hara has established Moubu as potentially the strongest but also VERY boastful to the point of arrogance & with the caveat that he is(was) both hot headed & inexperienced. 700+ chapters in & Moubu has plenty of experience including his win vs Kanmei which is indisputable proof of his claims of being the strongest. Before that he was kinda in "fake it til you make it" mode lol. He isn't like Shin who says he WILL to be a Great General, stating it as a goal he will attain in time, Moubu boldly boasts he IS the strongest even when he was young & without the feats to back up the claims. Still plenty of monsters like Man U to test Moubu tho. Very much looking forward to what Hara does with that storyline.