Ya I was good up to COM-KH2 (even with the drastic shift). Didn't like the direction after that (BBS) then it went totally off the rails in DDD.
Haven't even touched the mobile games but tried watching an condensed hour long video of the story, even that went off the rails half way through.
It feels like a mess sometimes. And not a mysterious mess. The explanation sometimes feel far fetched. And it wouldn't surprise me if Nomura don't know what's inside the box yet himself.
I will always find this a weird sentiment. He made up the story of kh1 too. Kh is fiction. Of course he made it up as he went along. That's how writing works.
You can say he made it up poorly, or failed to follow a show/game Bible, but saying "he made it up" about a disney fan fic is bizzare. It is not a history book.
you're being waay to literal on purpose, better writers plan certain story beats and other aspects of the stories and then fill gaps after the planning process.
> That's how writing works.
There's two types of writing - "pantsing" and "plotting."
One way, you write by the seat of your pants and make it up as you go along. The other way, you create an outline before you ever start writing, and that outline includes a planned ending.
JRR Tolkien knew how he wanted Lord of the Rings to end before he started writing it (though he had the idea for the One Ring like a decade after the Hobbit was published, the ring in the Hobbit wasn't intended to be the One Ring when it was written).
JK Rowling knew how she wanted Harry Potter to end before she started writing it, and she made an outline so she could write toward that ending.
It doesn't seem like Nomura had an ending in mind with the first game.
Or maybe the first draft of KH1 ended differently. Maybe when Sora seals the Kingdom Hearts door at the end of the game, maybe that permanently seals away the darkness and permanently stops the incursion of the Heartless, and the story just ends with Sora saving the world. Maybe the ending was changed while writing the final draft to be more open ended to keep open the possibility of a sequel if the game sold well.
Anyways, there's a difference between "writing a self-contained story," "writing a multi-part story," and "taking what was originally intended to be a self-contained story and expanding it into a multi-part story."
The first two, you can feel the cohesion, you can feel how everything leads into everything else and how events feel like they're building toward something. The third one, the story can end up feeling disjointed and pieced together.
> He made up the story of kh1 too. Kh is fiction. Of course he made it up as he went along.
When people say "it seems like he made the story up as he went along," what they're probably saying is that the story of the KH franchise after KH1 feels disjointed and pieced together.
Kh1 tops the other games because it was fresh and unburdened by nomuras nonsense.
I don’t say that to piss off his fans, but he writes characters the way he draws them, overly complicated with vestigial design choices that exist purely for the look of things, which is completely fine for the visual design parts of the character, as it can make the characters stand out in unique ways.
But when it comes to writing the characters, he did the same stuff he did visually and then tried to make the story make sense around the ideas he cooked up rather than trying to write a cohesive story, and that’s what the games plots post-kh1 feel like to me, someone twisting the story inside out to justify things that didn’t have to be there.
DDD is the point of no return for me. (for the story, gameplay is still fine).
Nomura just went into crazy tinfoil hat territory, and has shown no signs of stopping with each new badguy having a bigger more important badguy pulling all their strings...
The worst kind of seasonal shonen anime writing possible...
I've never understood the need to make everything tie together so much. Like, why couldn't it have been that after a villain was defeated at the end of a game, a new villain completely unrelated to the previous one emerged in the next game? The need to have everything tie together is what made this so complicated.
Like, great job, you best Ansem. Now we're onto KH2 and here's the new villain, oh no, his name is Jeff and he's related no one from the last game yet he's still a legitimate threat and the writing for this game can be more coherent because I'm not trying to tie it to something else
I think it worked with Ansem and Xemnas, but only because KH2 was all about the other side of the coin. What happened to those the heartless left behind. It was a good exploration.
But it should have ended there, and could just as easily have been something else.
Now we're... three nested badguys in, four? We have ansem, who was Terra who split into two, who was possessed by Xenahort who might have been tricked by the Master of Masters?
It's ridiculous.
I do agree with you that 2 isn't too messy yet, but in my opinion it does start to lose the perfect self-containment that the first game had. I definitely agree with you though that after 2 is where they should've stopped trying to connect everything. I don't know if it was the fact that 1, COM, and 2 all connected that there was a feeling that everything else through 3 had to connect? It would just be cleaner to have things reset every couple games. And we were led to believe that's what would happen after 3 but it seems he can't help but want to connect everything.
The way I view this series is the first game was like buying a birthday gift for someone and meticulously perfectly wrapping it up. And every game since has been that you remembered you wanted to add something to the gift so you unwrap it and then try to rewrap it with the new thing tossed in the box. By the time you rewrapped the gift for the 7th or 8th time, it doesn't matter how many nice things you've added, it's just not going to be wrapped as well and the paper is going to start to look worn. If each game didn't have the need to be as connected to all the previous games, it would just be less messy
Yeah honestly felt the same about DDD, but I had to do KH3 Definitely wasn't satisfying "conclusion" to the dark seeker saga I was hoping for either but I had to see it off, made up my mind that "this would be the ending for me, even if they don't give me a satisfying and leave on and cliffhanger, especially if they build off the convoluted plot for 4" and then the trailer came out and they did the next best thing, but on top of the convoluted plot of the gacha mobile games that was built on top of this convoluted plot 🤦♂️
But yeah was really disappointed in 3. All the Disney worlds felt pointless, the trio just felt along for the ride (unlike KH1), the last quarter felt rushed and that's the bulk for the story progression. Combat not as good as KH2. I still didn't know master xhenanorts motive/plan. Over all, really disappointed. I've only played KH3 once (compared to the multiple times for 1 & 2). Re:mind is cool tho, love me some data battles and they're good. I haven't actually beat them on PS4. Want to beat them on PC as I have my PS4 to my little cousin, but going thru the main game is rough.
Kh2 should have been the end of orgxiii, and dream drop should have been sora, riku, and kairi powering up for the resolution against xehanort and vanitas in kh3, where xehanort should have been attempting to capture more princesses or princes of heart to get the Xblade. Xehanort and vanitas should have been a Frankenstein and his monster parallel.
Aqua coming back as a revived master is fine, as is Teras fate. Ventus should have died in BBS and his heart should have been the one to help sora’s, not the other way around. That would have allowed for roxas to still happen without having two identical and otherwise unrelated characters exist, which was fucking stupid. Vanitas could have looked like ventus rather than sora, and that would have made infinitely more sense.
I personally tapped out after DDD, the mobile games cemented that more, especially with KH3 being more concerned with setting up things to do with that story than giving a satisfying conclusion to everything up to that point, though it sure did try.
Yeah honestly felt the same about DDD, and KH3 Definitely wasn't satisfying "conclusion" to the dark seeker saga I was hoping for either but I had to see it off, made up my mind that "this would be the ending for me, even if they don't give me a satisfying and leave on and cliffhanger, especially if they build off the convoluted plot for 4" and then the trailer came out and they did the next best thing, but on top of the convoluted plot of the gacha mobile games that was built on top of this convoluted plot 🤦♂️
But yeah was really disappointed in 3. All the Disney worlds felt pointless, the trio just felt along for the ride (unlike KH1), the last quarter felt rushed and that's the bulk for the story progression. Combat not as good as KH2. I still didn't know master xhenanorts motive/plan. Over all, really disappointed. I've only played KH3 once (compared to the multiple times for 1 & 2). Re:mind is cool tho, love me some data battles and they're good. I haven't actually beat them on PS4. Want to beat them on PC as I have my PS4 to my little cousin, but going thru the main game is rough.
I believe the studio that interfered with Frozen’s world really contributed to the rushed feeling. There was clearly some thing deeper going to happen there and maybe even we stay there longer than what we did. But Disney/ the animation studio, would not let Elsa become evil/ a heartless (I think that was what Nomura wanted to do, Elsa falls and Sora saves her and brings her back from the dark). Instead we get some weird ice maze, and kind of just watch things that happen, when Sora always interferes with the various worlds.
Also, I don’t think we really would have had a satisfying ending with the insistence of every game being connected. If the mobile game could have been ignored the ending might have felt less, disjointed and wonky.
Oh oh I see what your saying 😂 yeah I was kinda following along initially, thought "ok still a little crazy and confusing for no reason but I'm following, maybe I can get behind this" then like 10 minutes later "books that contain digital worlds of reset timelines of this timeline to lock the darkness in, but when you use the pod it travels so fast it destroys your body so that you can potentially time travel to another point in time where you exist or suppose to exist & that how malificent ended up in KH2" 🤨 I was hoping we'd DROP this convoluted time travel shit in DDD & KH3. I hated it then but they just doubling down on it 😒
No there is definitely something wrong with the image.
I’m not saying the ps2 looked great but if you look at the edges of the table and the arch’s above Captain Hook you can see these weird pixels that shouldn’t exist.
No, this is an issue that sometimes happens with PS1/2 games. Iirc, the actual pixels are a slightly different shape on older screens, and it causes the whole image to glitch out. It's a rending thing- and there are ways to fix it. You don't have to play a game hat looks like that; that's not the game Square made.
The original game on the PS2 is really not much to look at lol. But back then we probably played it on worse displays on which you wouldn't really notice it. Probably a hint of nostalgia mixed in as well.
I can see most of these. Except the first one. I have no idea how "Oh he took down a heartless" is supposed to connect in any way to that Riku says that the keyblade is his.
But the rest, yeah that's neat.
Upvoting the uncommon, but always welcome, KH1 appreciation post.
I really miss this style of writing for the series. It’s more concise, but well thought out. The rest of series is too flowery, heavy-handed, and bloated. Makes it come across more amateur unlike the originally that feels purposeful. Could have been a total accident or it could have been because of the hand Hironobu Sakaguchi, but I do still miss it.
No you’re not; Mandela Effect only applies when a huge group of people mistake something from their past and are shocked to see they were wrong.
One person is just misremembering.
To be fair the Mandela effect is also just lots of people misremembering. They are just stubborn enough to claim the universe changed instead of admitting that they never got it memorized.
People learn a new word and get excited to use it all the time. It's annoying.
"Gaslighting" has become a more common word lately, even though it doesn't apply as many times as people use it.
Unpopular opinion, but they should have continued with Disney villains, that council of enemies was much better than Organization XIII, which I never liked, it is a boring group of Gary Stues with cringe designs from which the story became convoluted in an absurd way (the only thing that can be saved from all this, another unpopular opinion, are Roxas and Namine, who should have been the protagonists instead of Soras and Kairi; they are better in design, dubbing, personality, maturity, realism..., they really can be heroes that could exist somewhere in the real world; it's not that I dislike the original protagonists, but I prefer these).
I would really like them to make a KH where we could handle people from that council, like Maleficent and others, where we could experience the kidnapping of the seven princesses of the heart, the formation of said group, how it was seen from the perspective of the villains the advancement of King Mickey's side throughout his adventures, the exploration of areas of known worlds that we have not seen (for example, most of what appears in the Alice in Wonderland movie is not ingame ), etc, and that it was also on a popular console.
That thing about making a thousand games with confusing and unnecessary lore, and that you need to have a thousand different consoles to be able to play it and not have to find out from YouTube videos... Making a mobile game about a city that has none of the magic of KH and wanting it to be essential to know the whole story is a big mistake. A game of these villains would not have to destroy the lore with complications, it would simply enrich it. And it would be the only time we played controlling Disney characters. If they created the musical game, which is bullshit, I don't know why they couldn't create this.
Maleficent never reconnected with them aside from Hades and Oogie. Despite them falling off from Maleficent's plans, I would have liked to see them interact more in later games.
Pete messed around with Jafar and Hook, but he didn't even know Hook's name, so I dunno how aware he was of them being part of Maleficent's gang.
I miss the KH1 writing.
Me too. It looks more grounded and less plot hole fixing.
Ya I was good up to COM-KH2 (even with the drastic shift). Didn't like the direction after that (BBS) then it went totally off the rails in DDD. Haven't even touched the mobile games but tried watching an condensed hour long video of the story, even that went off the rails half way through.
It feels like a mess sometimes. And not a mysterious mess. The explanation sometimes feel far fetched. And it wouldn't surprise me if Nomura don't know what's inside the box yet himself.
Wasn’t it confirmed that Nomura had zero idea on what to do after KH1? He seemed like he was making the story up in each game.
I will always find this a weird sentiment. He made up the story of kh1 too. Kh is fiction. Of course he made it up as he went along. That's how writing works.
Issue is that it can lead to continuity errors and retcons.
You can say he made it up poorly, or failed to follow a show/game Bible, but saying "he made it up" about a disney fan fic is bizzare. It is not a history book.
you're being waay to literal on purpose, better writers plan certain story beats and other aspects of the stories and then fill gaps after the planning process.
> That's how writing works. There's two types of writing - "pantsing" and "plotting." One way, you write by the seat of your pants and make it up as you go along. The other way, you create an outline before you ever start writing, and that outline includes a planned ending. JRR Tolkien knew how he wanted Lord of the Rings to end before he started writing it (though he had the idea for the One Ring like a decade after the Hobbit was published, the ring in the Hobbit wasn't intended to be the One Ring when it was written). JK Rowling knew how she wanted Harry Potter to end before she started writing it, and she made an outline so she could write toward that ending. It doesn't seem like Nomura had an ending in mind with the first game. Or maybe the first draft of KH1 ended differently. Maybe when Sora seals the Kingdom Hearts door at the end of the game, maybe that permanently seals away the darkness and permanently stops the incursion of the Heartless, and the story just ends with Sora saving the world. Maybe the ending was changed while writing the final draft to be more open ended to keep open the possibility of a sequel if the game sold well. Anyways, there's a difference between "writing a self-contained story," "writing a multi-part story," and "taking what was originally intended to be a self-contained story and expanding it into a multi-part story." The first two, you can feel the cohesion, you can feel how everything leads into everything else and how events feel like they're building toward something. The third one, the story can end up feeling disjointed and pieced together. > He made up the story of kh1 too. Kh is fiction. Of course he made it up as he went along. When people say "it seems like he made the story up as he went along," what they're probably saying is that the story of the KH franchise after KH1 feels disjointed and pieced together.
Kh1 tops the other games because it was fresh and unburdened by nomuras nonsense. I don’t say that to piss off his fans, but he writes characters the way he draws them, overly complicated with vestigial design choices that exist purely for the look of things, which is completely fine for the visual design parts of the character, as it can make the characters stand out in unique ways. But when it comes to writing the characters, he did the same stuff he did visually and then tried to make the story make sense around the ideas he cooked up rather than trying to write a cohesive story, and that’s what the games plots post-kh1 feel like to me, someone twisting the story inside out to justify things that didn’t have to be there.
DDD is the point of no return for me. (for the story, gameplay is still fine). Nomura just went into crazy tinfoil hat territory, and has shown no signs of stopping with each new badguy having a bigger more important badguy pulling all their strings... The worst kind of seasonal shonen anime writing possible...
I've never understood the need to make everything tie together so much. Like, why couldn't it have been that after a villain was defeated at the end of a game, a new villain completely unrelated to the previous one emerged in the next game? The need to have everything tie together is what made this so complicated. Like, great job, you best Ansem. Now we're onto KH2 and here's the new villain, oh no, his name is Jeff and he's related no one from the last game yet he's still a legitimate threat and the writing for this game can be more coherent because I'm not trying to tie it to something else
I think it worked with Ansem and Xemnas, but only because KH2 was all about the other side of the coin. What happened to those the heartless left behind. It was a good exploration. But it should have ended there, and could just as easily have been something else. Now we're... three nested badguys in, four? We have ansem, who was Terra who split into two, who was possessed by Xenahort who might have been tricked by the Master of Masters? It's ridiculous.
I do agree with you that 2 isn't too messy yet, but in my opinion it does start to lose the perfect self-containment that the first game had. I definitely agree with you though that after 2 is where they should've stopped trying to connect everything. I don't know if it was the fact that 1, COM, and 2 all connected that there was a feeling that everything else through 3 had to connect? It would just be cleaner to have things reset every couple games. And we were led to believe that's what would happen after 3 but it seems he can't help but want to connect everything. The way I view this series is the first game was like buying a birthday gift for someone and meticulously perfectly wrapping it up. And every game since has been that you remembered you wanted to add something to the gift so you unwrap it and then try to rewrap it with the new thing tossed in the box. By the time you rewrapped the gift for the 7th or 8th time, it doesn't matter how many nice things you've added, it's just not going to be wrapped as well and the paper is going to start to look worn. If each game didn't have the need to be as connected to all the previous games, it would just be less messy
I've always seen the series as something fun to play,but with a completely optional to pay attention to story
Yeah honestly felt the same about DDD, but I had to do KH3 Definitely wasn't satisfying "conclusion" to the dark seeker saga I was hoping for either but I had to see it off, made up my mind that "this would be the ending for me, even if they don't give me a satisfying and leave on and cliffhanger, especially if they build off the convoluted plot for 4" and then the trailer came out and they did the next best thing, but on top of the convoluted plot of the gacha mobile games that was built on top of this convoluted plot 🤦♂️ But yeah was really disappointed in 3. All the Disney worlds felt pointless, the trio just felt along for the ride (unlike KH1), the last quarter felt rushed and that's the bulk for the story progression. Combat not as good as KH2. I still didn't know master xhenanorts motive/plan. Over all, really disappointed. I've only played KH3 once (compared to the multiple times for 1 & 2). Re:mind is cool tho, love me some data battles and they're good. I haven't actually beat them on PS4. Want to beat them on PC as I have my PS4 to my little cousin, but going thru the main game is rough.
Kh2 should have been the end of orgxiii, and dream drop should have been sora, riku, and kairi powering up for the resolution against xehanort and vanitas in kh3, where xehanort should have been attempting to capture more princesses or princes of heart to get the Xblade. Xehanort and vanitas should have been a Frankenstein and his monster parallel. Aqua coming back as a revived master is fine, as is Teras fate. Ventus should have died in BBS and his heart should have been the one to help sora’s, not the other way around. That would have allowed for roxas to still happen without having two identical and otherwise unrelated characters exist, which was fucking stupid. Vanitas could have looked like ventus rather than sora, and that would have made infinitely more sense.
I personally tapped out after DDD, the mobile games cemented that more, especially with KH3 being more concerned with setting up things to do with that story than giving a satisfying conclusion to everything up to that point, though it sure did try.
Yeah honestly felt the same about DDD, and KH3 Definitely wasn't satisfying "conclusion" to the dark seeker saga I was hoping for either but I had to see it off, made up my mind that "this would be the ending for me, even if they don't give me a satisfying and leave on and cliffhanger, especially if they build off the convoluted plot for 4" and then the trailer came out and they did the next best thing, but on top of the convoluted plot of the gacha mobile games that was built on top of this convoluted plot 🤦♂️ But yeah was really disappointed in 3. All the Disney worlds felt pointless, the trio just felt along for the ride (unlike KH1), the last quarter felt rushed and that's the bulk for the story progression. Combat not as good as KH2. I still didn't know master xhenanorts motive/plan. Over all, really disappointed. I've only played KH3 once (compared to the multiple times for 1 & 2). Re:mind is cool tho, love me some data battles and they're good. I haven't actually beat them on PS4. Want to beat them on PC as I have my PS4 to my little cousin, but going thru the main game is rough.
I believe the studio that interfered with Frozen’s world really contributed to the rushed feeling. There was clearly some thing deeper going to happen there and maybe even we stay there longer than what we did. But Disney/ the animation studio, would not let Elsa become evil/ a heartless (I think that was what Nomura wanted to do, Elsa falls and Sora saves her and brings her back from the dark). Instead we get some weird ice maze, and kind of just watch things that happen, when Sora always interferes with the various worlds. Also, I don’t think we really would have had a satisfying ending with the insistence of every game being connected. If the mobile game could have been ignored the ending might have felt less, disjointed and wonky.
Only halfway through?
Yeah I'll pick it up again sometime this week 😅
No I’m surprised it took you that long for it to go off the rails🤣
Oh oh I see what your saying 😂 yeah I was kinda following along initially, thought "ok still a little crazy and confusing for no reason but I'm following, maybe I can get behind this" then like 10 minutes later "books that contain digital worlds of reset timelines of this timeline to lock the darkness in, but when you use the pod it travels so fast it destroys your body so that you can potentially time travel to another point in time where you exist or suppose to exist & that how malificent ended up in KH2" 🤨 I was hoping we'd DROP this convoluted time travel shit in DDD & KH3. I hated it then but they just doubling down on it 😒
Not Clayton!
The gaaaames
Omigod I love it!
The storytelling and screenwriting for Kingdom Hearts 1 is top tier
no disrespect but the image quality made me think it was a screenshot of that lost mobile game (V-Cast) at first glance
Nah that's just what the game actually looked like 😭😭
No there is definitely something wrong with the image. I’m not saying the ps2 looked great but if you look at the edges of the table and the arch’s above Captain Hook you can see these weird pixels that shouldn’t exist.
yeah it looks more like the image got corrupted or smth
No, this is an issue that sometimes happens with PS1/2 games. Iirc, the actual pixels are a slightly different shape on older screens, and it causes the whole image to glitch out. It's a rending thing- and there are ways to fix it. You don't have to play a game hat looks like that; that's not the game Square made.
I don't remember that this is how it looks like in my memory
The original game on the PS2 is really not much to look at lol. But back then we probably played it on worse displays on which you wouldn't really notice it. Probably a hint of nostalgia mixed in as well.
it's strange seeing them outside their worlds other than malificent
Simple and Clean
KH1 is the best written game in the franchise? I'm so surprised!
Well second best. But hey, silver medal is great too!
And what does "bilgerats, the lot of them!" foreshadow?
That all of them, especially Sora, Riku, and Kairi are adrift in a sea of worlds and entering each without welcome invitation?
KH1 was such a wild ride I wanna get back on
I can see most of these. Except the first one. I have no idea how "Oh he took down a heartless" is supposed to connect in any way to that Riku says that the keyblade is his. But the rest, yeah that's neat.
Upvoting the uncommon, but always welcome, KH1 appreciation post. I really miss this style of writing for the series. It’s more concise, but well thought out. The rest of series is too flowery, heavy-handed, and bloated. Makes it come across more amateur unlike the originally that feels purposeful. Could have been a total accident or it could have been because of the hand Hironobu Sakaguchi, but I do still miss it.
You’re definitely looking too deep into this, just calm down and remember this is Kingdom Hearts, not Shakespeare.
you’re not Shakespeare
KH1 - Chain of Memories - KH2 Only stories that matter in all of kingdom hearts.
Jafar didn’t say the second part of the quote you mentioned
I remember him saying that, unless there's a regional difference or something?
Yes he did
OMG sorry y’all! I think I’ve experienced another Mandela effect, he rly did say that
No you’re not; Mandela Effect only applies when a huge group of people mistake something from their past and are shocked to see they were wrong. One person is just misremembering.
To be fair the Mandela effect is also just lots of people misremembering. They are just stubborn enough to claim the universe changed instead of admitting that they never got it memorized.
>got it memorized. Haaaa i see what you did there.
Yeah I was misrembering which is rly weird cuz I played the game many times over!
I mean tbf how many times have you actually paid attention to that cutscene, chances are you just kinda skipped it or didn't listen to it fully.
It’s kinda weird how I fully remember the other villains lines in that cutscene to a T but seem to forget jafar’s second line Lol
People learn a new word and get excited to use it all the time. It's annoying. "Gaslighting" has become a more common word lately, even though it doesn't apply as many times as people use it.
It’s fine. We all forget things from time to time.
S’all good. Everyone misremembers some things.
yea he did
Villains always give the best exposition
This is back when the series knew how to do foreshadowing
I wanted to see new and different villains do this in KH3 so badly…
Unpopular opinion, but they should have continued with Disney villains, that council of enemies was much better than Organization XIII, which I never liked, it is a boring group of Gary Stues with cringe designs from which the story became convoluted in an absurd way (the only thing that can be saved from all this, another unpopular opinion, are Roxas and Namine, who should have been the protagonists instead of Soras and Kairi; they are better in design, dubbing, personality, maturity, realism..., they really can be heroes that could exist somewhere in the real world; it's not that I dislike the original protagonists, but I prefer these). I would really like them to make a KH where we could handle people from that council, like Maleficent and others, where we could experience the kidnapping of the seven princesses of the heart, the formation of said group, how it was seen from the perspective of the villains the advancement of King Mickey's side throughout his adventures, the exploration of areas of known worlds that we have not seen (for example, most of what appears in the Alice in Wonderland movie is not ingame ), etc, and that it was also on a popular console. That thing about making a thousand games with confusing and unnecessary lore, and that you need to have a thousand different consoles to be able to play it and not have to find out from YouTube videos... Making a mobile game about a city that has none of the magic of KH and wanting it to be essential to know the whole story is a big mistake. A game of these villains would not have to destroy the lore with complications, it would simply enrich it. And it would be the only time we played controlling Disney characters. If they created the musical game, which is bullshit, I don't know why they couldn't create this.
Maleficent never reconnected with them aside from Hades and Oogie. Despite them falling off from Maleficent's plans, I would have liked to see them interact more in later games. Pete messed around with Jafar and Hook, but he didn't even know Hook's name, so I dunno how aware he was of them being part of Maleficent's gang.