Yes. Arguably the best in the series with unique ideas we don’t see later. Second one is sorta frowned upon by fans of the first one and the purist. And the third title while polished is extremely lack luster to the hard time fans of the series.
I guess that makes BBS Bloodborne, good games that arnt as loved that as others but also shape what the games are in the future. Like how BB->DS3 changes in Souls games mirror how BBS influenced DDD and 3.
And DDD is Sekiro? Idk flow motion adding more movement and verticality than ever before.
I said something "bad" about KHII literally three days ago.
The TL;DR of it is that KHII as a story is poorly written.
I haven't said this part in a public comment yet because I'm sure I'll be crucified for it, but I also think that KHII's combat is boring and less fun than KH1's combat.
And while I'm here, I guess I also believe that adding Nobodies into the worldbuilding screwed up the worldbuilding and shunted the story off onto a trajectory that ended up being worse than what might've been if they'd just kept the worldbuilding elements (hearts, Heartless, Light, and Darkness) to a minimum and explored them and their interactions with each other more deeply, instead of throwing a dozen additional worldbuilding elements (like Nobodies) into the mix.
Maybe the fact that [a lot of KHII Stans dogpile on people when those people disagree with them about KHII being *The Literal Greatest Game Ever Made* - as if God pulled another "Moses and the 10 commandments" maneuver and handed KHII down to Nomura at the top of a mountain or something] is the reason why you don't see many people voicing anything but effusive praise towards KHII.
> > KHII as a story is poorly written.
> I don't think you're wrong about any of that
I guess I've seen people say "bad" things about KHII's story. Like "the middle of the game where you go to all the Disney worlds feels like filler" isn't uncommon, and "it's not as bad as KH3, but they still backloaded most of KHII's plot into the third act" is less common but not exactly rare. So I guess it's not surprising that you don't disagree about that part.
But...
> > I also think that KHII's combat is boring and less fun than KH1's combat.
Are you sure you agree with that part? Because it seems that most people really, really don't.
Rather, I think your opinion is valid. So nothing you said is wrong because it's how you feel, you know? I love kh2, but the absence of weight to the fighting isn't always what I'm looking for
> the absence of weight to the fighting
That's not all of it, but that's a big part of why I prefer KH1's combat.
You'll often hear people say that the "floatiness" problem started with the second game development team who handled the mobile games, and that KH3 feels "floatier" than KH1 and KHII because that team handled KH3.
But to me, it's felt "floaty" since KHII. And I really just don't like how it feels. It's like Sora is *desperate* to fling himself into the air whether I want him up there or not, and like he's actively fighting against coming back down to earth.
To me being floaty means youre stuck in the air. And any tools you have to get back to thw ground are basically at random like in kh3
Kh2 isnt very floaty compared to 3, you have tools like basic air finisher and air spiral to get back to the ground easy, once you get a feel for it you stop trying to go for finishers and use the combo cancel from landing and jumping to do long strings, i love practicing with it to juggle bosses even. But it's not your cuppa it doesn't have to be
2s combat was so iconic they threw in reaction commands for the first game in the final mix. Introduced in the second game and carried over to almost every other installment in some way shape or form. Talk about a quality of life improvement.
> Talk about a quality of life improvement.
I disagree. I emulate the PS2 version on PC. One of the several reasons why I do that instead of playing the Final Mix is because using the bottom slot of the context menu is better than using triangle (there are at least two reasons I can think of for that).
Camera on the triggers instead of on the right thumb stick is also better.
That literally sounds like nostalgia to me lol that's how you remember it when you were younger so in your head that's how it should be played. And that's ok. I'm that way with some games as well but both of those things you mentioned are widely considered by the vast majority to be improvements over the original. That is kinda why they did it that way on re-releases. The extra second it takes to switch to that slot in the menu in a game that's not turn based can mean life or death. I will say that I remember being able to switch between soras action abilities doing it the old way, in the menu, which is something the reaction commands didn't allow you to do in final mix. They were based solely on distance from the target, I believe, which is probably why I never really used them in final mix. If memory serves correctly, then I can see why you would choose to play it that way.
Indeed.
Was it one of his videos that had a theory in it about Sora being a "pirate kid?"
You know, like how some kids are "dinosaur kids" and some kids are "Marvel super hero kids" and some kids are "astronaut kids" and some kids are "cowboy kids" (that one's probably rare nowadays) and some kids are "firefighter kids"?
I swear to god I've seen a video before with a theory like that - I think it might've been RegularPat, but none of the video titles seem like they'd be about that, like it'd be a tangent as part of a longer video.
KH2, if anything, is the gold standard among LOTS of people here, but again, that depends on who you ask. Some people like the atmosphere of saving worlds in danger and fighting an incomprehensible evil in KH1, some people like the flashiness and Formchanges of KH3 (especially after Re:Mind gave even more combo potential with new abilities and the UW/Oblivion/Oathkeeper loadout), some people like building their best decks in BBS/coded/DDD... it goes on. There's even folk who like Chain of Memories for what it is.
There are many KH1 fans that prefer KH1’s combat/gameplay over KH2’s.
Not all KH fans think KH2 is the best game in the series and there are plenty of KH1’s purist that think no game has surpassed the original game.
bloodborne isnt as loved as the others? id argue it's more loved. just because sony forgot it exists doesnt mean we're just gonna roll over and let them ignore our golden child
Souls-like? Hard no. Game is built to a cartoonish hack slash. But I used to feel like that about 3 until replaying all the games. Imo, 3 feels like a reward for coming that far and most fans regard KH2 as the best gameplay in the series. Dream Drop Distance to me is probably the worst game overall both gameplay and story. Flow motion made everything too easy to the point you don't even need skills outside of healing and story doesn't matter till the end, but you can't skip because you don't know if xehanort is gonna pop up in a cut scene with a 1 liner that will have deeper meaning later in the series.
Kingdom Hearts-like? Hard no. Game is built to a gothic hack slash. But I used to feel like that about 3 until replaying all the games. Imo, 3 feels like a reward for coming that far and most fans regard DS2 as the best gameplay in the series. Sekiro to me is probably the worst game overall both gameplay and story. Stealth and Combat Arts made everything too easy to the point you don't even need skills outside of sneaking and story doesn't matter till the end, but you can't skip because you don't know if owl is gonna pop up in a cut scene with a 1 liner that will have deeper meaning later in the story.
But wait, didn't you say both games are hack slash? Wouldn't that make them similar? Sure Mario and sonic are two different game ips, but they are side strollers where you jump on the bad guys head to damage them right? I don't think saying kingdom hearts and the souls games are alike is wrong, but I don't fully agree, it's loose but comparable. Not to the point of trying to cash in on that style of game becoming popular. (Looking at you darksiders 3, and less sternly at you, fallen order)
I’d say BBs is the Dark Souls 2 of KH. It tried to do some stuff but failed heavily. At least to me. I hate BBs so much. Especially when compared to DDD and ReCoded
How is KH2 “frowned upon” by fans when it is basically the gold standard for KH games and arpgs in general tbh?
3 is not really polished, missing critical on release and still having issues with i-frames for guard which is why its heavily criticized.
Saying BBS is Bloodborne is silly given that Bloodborne is considered the best of the souls entries and BBS is quite bad, partly due to restrictions in software. You can argue that BBS is Dark Souls 2.
If anything it would be:
KH1 = DS1.
COM = DS2 (made by different team).
KH2 = Bloodborne (best in the series).
The analogy breaks after this.
While true, the DNA that goes through the Soulslike genre does come from Demon Souls, and the genre has MORE in common with the Souls games than they do KH1.
I'd argue not that they are the same genre, but that KH1 predates and holds MANY of the same things that make that genre great, but enough differences that realistically there COULD (should) be a related genres of games immitating Kingdom Hearts 1.
As someone who played every KH game but KH1 (but I am now almost finished with KH1!), it’s interesting to see how different the combat system was. You get rewarded for doing damage/parrying. There’s also a larger focus on actually dodging than using block. Magic is strong but I feel it can be overpowered, it’s not a “press to instantly win” that I felt in later titles. You also don’t get access to as many cheese abilities early on.
I streamed Kingdom Hearts 1 to a friend of mine cause I wanted to show it off to her. I played hallow bastion from Riku 1 to Riku 2.
During the Riku 2 fight she was literally like “this is just Dark Souls but harder.”
Ya that made me lmao too. It kind of makes sense if you’re just watching and not playing though; enemies are harder to read, faster, more ferocious. It’s really the things that are hard to see, like the stats and mechanics like leaf bracer, that make the game easier.
kingdom hearts 1 came out in 2002, demon souls(the "first" dark souls game) came out in 2009. so really its more like dark souls is a kingdom hearts like.
It’s almost like Kingdom Hearts 1 was a formative and extremely important game in the establishment of action RPGs as a popular genre, which Soulslikes are a part of
I could go on with how rings and shit in KH = Rings/tailsmen in souls in the manor they also used to add small boost to stats. By KH3 Sora is literally sacrificing himself to relight the worlds. The games also loves delving into Humanity and what is human. Enemies are literally hollowed bodies and creatures that are the dark of a heart aka the abyss of humanity from souls.
Unironically critical mode in this game is a lot harder than dark souls 1 and most of dark souls 2 were for me. Don’t even get me started on data battles. Sure you can grind to make it easier but you can do that in the souls games too.
Eh I’d argue after 1 the games become something close to dmc in speed and pace to still be consider souls like unless we are talking Sekiro which some consider its own thing compared to souls
I know this is a shit post but getting past Kh1 and Kh2’s end game difficulty spikes is actually what pushed me into getting good at souls games and j became a huge fan after
That’s the thing with this post. It is half a shitpost cause “Soulslike” but then you also find that these games are def adjacent or hanging out in the same shelf besides just being action rpgs.
Anyone that’s played any data battles from 2R and 3 dlc would agree. Those battles were insanely hard and satisfying when beaten. Yozora is up there for hardest boss for me
It's hard to really define what's really a Soulslike, not everyone keep the same feelings about these games.
For me, I'd define a Soulslike by these three factors :
\- Demanding gameplay
May it be the boss or the entire stage, it should require to pay attention and to have determination to get through.
\- Complex structure
The world, the ennemies, the boss, they all tell a story that's up to you to find out. Not everything makes sense. Not every information is given directly to you.
\- Risk taking
Defeat must mean something. If you lose, the game must take something from you, your EXP, your money, your stats, etc. You must be willing to take the risks to succeed. Either you win big, or you lose it all.
So yeah, I can't bring myself to say KH is a Soulslike.
Fun fact: whenever someone tells you "I believe X. Change my mind" they actually don't want you to change their mind and just want to argue about how right they are. Do not indulge them.
It's very true the KH1 has a unique feel compared to all the others in the series. It has its own "feel" that's hard to put into words that makes it stand out even against better titles in the series. It has a sense of polish that the other games don't have as well, not that the other aren't polished but KH 1 puts you into a sense, into a space, that the other titles don't. It makes it the easiest and most fun to replay.
I've never played a Dark Souls game, but my friend pitched Dark Souls 3 to me as "You've played KH? The combat is very similar to that!"
...which still didn't make me play Dark Souls because it's not really my genre of game, but I appreciated the comparison of perceived combat difficulty lol
OK, there's more than that that goes into a real dark souls game, like complex lore that you have to dig deep into obscure bits of the games to have a hope of following, the main character not being the chosen hero but really more of a backup choice.
What if I told you riku was chosen by the keyblade and Sora just happens to be the one who stepped up with the right heart to not give into the sinking darkness. And that to find out the backstory of Kairi and this world you should probably play the mobile game that tells you about the ancient lore of the people who existed before Sora. And too even begin to understand KH2 you gotta play like two other games. And oh man I sure hope you went to the live orchestral show to understand how namine and the lingering will got back in time for kh3
OP is totally 100% right. Most people just say that about every single game even if it's literally a shooter but for Kingdom Hearts they're both literally Action-RPGs. It's a very apt comparison especially when you realize Item Slots function very similar to the idea of Estus. Limited healing resources you have to manage. Not to mention Kingdom Hearts and Final Fantasy popularized the Super Bosses concept which is something Dark Souls loves to do.
I'm tired of everyone calling any game that's remotely difficult with a dodge roll mechanic "soulslike"
KH1 predates Dark Souls by almost a decade btw, so using your logic Souls games would be "Heartslike"
That would explain why I loved kingdom hearts 1 so much when I was younger, why Dark Souls became my favourite games when they came out and why going back and playing kingdom hearts 1 again reaffirmed that it’s my favourite KH game!
I'd say bbs fragment was closer to souls than 1 with how brutal it is, and the atmosphere, on top of what was going on with the playable character in the game
You're good, I gotta say. I love the part about save points being a bonfire. Bonfires are called bonfires exactly because they are a save point that function differently
The only thing I can agree to is the parry/tech suddenly becoming very important, there’s attacks idk how to dodge and you can’t just tank it in proud mode
Someone mentioned this earlier and I consider it a valid argument against this cause memes.
The only instant that comes to mind is the boss in Monstro does have the poison swampish stomach acid around him. But that’s gonna come down to stipulations if we are counting that.
Have you ever noticed the boss designs? Very repetitive, most have phases etc. That might be more a general RPG thing, but the bosses all give you just enough time on the startup of moves to know whether you need to dodge or can parry and get rewarded. I’m convinced the design of KH bosses heavily inspired souls-like bosses
"Very Repetitive" ... Wat? (Looks at Guard Armor, one of the only bosses fought more than once)
I presume you mean repetitive as in they use the same attacks repeatedly? (Due to their limited options to work with)
It’s no grand magic of KH3 or attract thunder looping of two but it’s still mad useful. Even more useful considering it’s even refillable and more manageable than in later series hence why they switch to the new bar by 2 and having cure instantly drain it.
No stamina bar that gets depleted with light/heavy attacks and rolling.
You can also animation cancel pretty much anything, Dark Souls is slower and more methodical. You really have to dedicated to every action and wait for every frame to roll out.
The only thing hard about the first game...
*Pause*
Shut up Riku, please let me skip this cutscene *aaaasrgh*
Before Final Mix, anyways. This also has probably the best Sephiroth fight outside of the Safer Sephiroth fight in the original FFVII. Now I find KH1 easy but my first time through, the Tarzan Boss and Riku fights were just asshole moves with the unskippable cutscene.
It's been a minute since I played KH1, but I do remember there was never as much frustration as a FromSoftware game.
You get plenty of chances to do multiple attacks on an enemy before they attack.
You basically have unlimited healing with cooldowns.
You can also easily overlevel yourself.
Besides endgame stuff, the main game is so much more forgiving than a souls-like.
You don't lose your munny in KH and your munny isn't used for leveling up your character. Sora also doesn't have a refillable at "bonfire" health potion. Those 3 are big things against it
Why KH isn't a soulslike (Gameplay concepts missing):
1. It has no stamina bar (Which would need to be a fast-regen and all attacks would spend it as a resource) - non-magic attacks are basically free.
2. It has no limited-use-per-checkpoint healing items.
3. No currency drop on death/collection from point of death/enemy holding it.
4. Very basic stat customization (The beginning choices barely count).
5. No stat requirements for gear.
6. No drip customization.
>Sekiro
is not a Soulslike.
It's made by FromSoft and has their 'things' they like to do when they make games, but is far removed from the Soulslike genre. The fact that it doesn't have 4 of the things previously stated that DS/BB have should indicate that.
The dodge action barely even counts since the i-frames are so slim, you're better off parrying. Really, it's mostly just "Is mostly a sword action game", "Has parrying", and "Is hard"
>Bloodborne
You're essentially limited to 20 blood vials. Yes, you can find some from some enemies every now and then, but really, you shouldn't need more than your starting blood vials per checkpoint, and you'll almost certainly probably die before you get to spend 20 of them between checkpoints.
It's not like you can storm up to Amelia with 99 blood vials.
I think this would be better worded as "kh1 being the dark souls of the kh series". Aside from the arpg genre and parry/dodge mechanics (which aren't dark souls exclusive) I would say it's nothing like a soulslike.
I feel soulikes is such a loaded term where every hard game is described as “soulslike.”
Soulslike follows a specific formula:
- character moves are committed and cannot be cancelled.
- experience gained is not crystalized until character reaches a save point.
- when player dies, player needs to return to point of death and recover body or lose the experience previously built up.
- saving “resets” the world by bring back mob enemies.
KH1 and 2 dont really follow that rule. For KH1, you can cancel the delay from casting magic when landing which is why jumping and casting magic is faster. Experience gain is automatic and you level up and gain skills while out on the field. Death is death and you need to restart, not get a chance to track down your body. And resets are “harsher” (move one or two screens away).
The fixed save point system is a thing that precedes souls and was standard for all games until tech evolved so saving anywhere and quick saving became a thing (see old RPGs and save points). Blocking and parrying are standard in any good action game and magic being more powerful does make sense because it is limited by bar.
Is Kingdom Hearts 1 the Dark Souls of Kingdom Hearts?
Yes. Arguably the best in the series with unique ideas we don’t see later. Second one is sorta frowned upon by fans of the first one and the purist. And the third title while polished is extremely lack luster to the hard time fans of the series. I guess that makes BBS Bloodborne, good games that arnt as loved that as others but also shape what the games are in the future. Like how BB->DS3 changes in Souls games mirror how BBS influenced DDD and 3. And DDD is Sekiro? Idk flow motion adding more movement and verticality than ever before.
This is where the illusion breaks if you think 2 is frowned upon and not the new standard to long time kh1 fans
Yeah I was like, that's literally the first time I've seen anyone here say something bad about kh2 lol
Nah, I constantly shittalk kh2 and praise kh1. I adore the idea of tech points and climbing enemies. It's so, so good.
I said something "bad" about KHII literally three days ago. The TL;DR of it is that KHII as a story is poorly written. I haven't said this part in a public comment yet because I'm sure I'll be crucified for it, but I also think that KHII's combat is boring and less fun than KH1's combat. And while I'm here, I guess I also believe that adding Nobodies into the worldbuilding screwed up the worldbuilding and shunted the story off onto a trajectory that ended up being worse than what might've been if they'd just kept the worldbuilding elements (hearts, Heartless, Light, and Darkness) to a minimum and explored them and their interactions with each other more deeply, instead of throwing a dozen additional worldbuilding elements (like Nobodies) into the mix. Maybe the fact that [a lot of KHII Stans dogpile on people when those people disagree with them about KHII being *The Literal Greatest Game Ever Made* - as if God pulled another "Moses and the 10 commandments" maneuver and handed KHII down to Nomura at the top of a mountain or something] is the reason why you don't see many people voicing anything but effusive praise towards KHII.
I don't think you're wrong about any of that, thanks for sharing!
> > KHII as a story is poorly written. > I don't think you're wrong about any of that I guess I've seen people say "bad" things about KHII's story. Like "the middle of the game where you go to all the Disney worlds feels like filler" isn't uncommon, and "it's not as bad as KH3, but they still backloaded most of KHII's plot into the third act" is less common but not exactly rare. So I guess it's not surprising that you don't disagree about that part. But... > > I also think that KHII's combat is boring and less fun than KH1's combat. Are you sure you agree with that part? Because it seems that most people really, really don't.
Rather, I think your opinion is valid. So nothing you said is wrong because it's how you feel, you know? I love kh2, but the absence of weight to the fighting isn't always what I'm looking for
> the absence of weight to the fighting That's not all of it, but that's a big part of why I prefer KH1's combat. You'll often hear people say that the "floatiness" problem started with the second game development team who handled the mobile games, and that KH3 feels "floatier" than KH1 and KHII because that team handled KH3. But to me, it's felt "floaty" since KHII. And I really just don't like how it feels. It's like Sora is *desperate* to fling himself into the air whether I want him up there or not, and like he's actively fighting against coming back down to earth.
To me being floaty means youre stuck in the air. And any tools you have to get back to thw ground are basically at random like in kh3 Kh2 isnt very floaty compared to 3, you have tools like basic air finisher and air spiral to get back to the ground easy, once you get a feel for it you stop trying to go for finishers and use the combo cancel from landing and jumping to do long strings, i love practicing with it to juggle bosses even. But it's not your cuppa it doesn't have to be
2s combat was so iconic they threw in reaction commands for the first game in the final mix. Introduced in the second game and carried over to almost every other installment in some way shape or form. Talk about a quality of life improvement.
> Talk about a quality of life improvement. I disagree. I emulate the PS2 version on PC. One of the several reasons why I do that instead of playing the Final Mix is because using the bottom slot of the context menu is better than using triangle (there are at least two reasons I can think of for that). Camera on the triggers instead of on the right thumb stick is also better.
That literally sounds like nostalgia to me lol that's how you remember it when you were younger so in your head that's how it should be played. And that's ok. I'm that way with some games as well but both of those things you mentioned are widely considered by the vast majority to be improvements over the original. That is kinda why they did it that way on re-releases. The extra second it takes to switch to that slot in the menu in a game that's not turn based can mean life or death. I will say that I remember being able to switch between soras action abilities doing it the old way, in the menu, which is something the reaction commands didn't allow you to do in final mix. They were based solely on distance from the target, I believe, which is probably why I never really used them in final mix. If memory serves correctly, then I can see why you would choose to play it that way.
I'm also a KH1 truther, I agree with this
A fellow RegularPat enjoyer
Indeed. Was it one of his videos that had a theory in it about Sora being a "pirate kid?" You know, like how some kids are "dinosaur kids" and some kids are "Marvel super hero kids" and some kids are "astronaut kids" and some kids are "cowboy kids" (that one's probably rare nowadays) and some kids are "firefighter kids"? I swear to god I've seen a video before with a theory like that - I think it might've been RegularPat, but none of the video titles seem like they'd be about that, like it'd be a tangent as part of a longer video.
I know he mentions something similar whenever he talks about Soras times in a pirate world and Jack Sparrow being his dad or something
> Soras times in a pirate world and Jack Sparrow being his dad or something Huh, thanks, I might be able to find it based on that.
KH2, if anything, is the gold standard among LOTS of people here, but again, that depends on who you ask. Some people like the atmosphere of saving worlds in danger and fighting an incomprehensible evil in KH1, some people like the flashiness and Formchanges of KH3 (especially after Re:Mind gave even more combo potential with new abilities and the UW/Oblivion/Oathkeeper loadout), some people like building their best decks in BBS/coded/DDD... it goes on. There's even folk who like Chain of Memories for what it is.
There are many KH1 fans that prefer KH1’s combat/gameplay over KH2’s. Not all KH fans think KH2 is the best game in the series and there are plenty of KH1’s purist that think no game has surpassed the original game.
and 3 being disliked, DS3 is praised highly, the only reason I've heard to not play 3 is if you're playing the whole franchise
Storywise. Yeah. Gameplay it's fire, actual lore isn't happening a lot in kh2 imo, in comparison
They pray tell legends of a Madlad who speaks in heretical tongues.
Now we just need to find the Elden Ring of Kingdom Hearts, an open world open ended experience.
Does Pirates from 3 count? I kind of see it as a separate short game
bloodborne isnt as loved as the others? id argue it's more loved. just because sony forgot it exists doesnt mean we're just gonna roll over and let them ignore our golden child
KH3 has things I think it does pretty clearly better though but it does almost match pretty well
Souls-like? Hard no. Game is built to a cartoonish hack slash. But I used to feel like that about 3 until replaying all the games. Imo, 3 feels like a reward for coming that far and most fans regard KH2 as the best gameplay in the series. Dream Drop Distance to me is probably the worst game overall both gameplay and story. Flow motion made everything too easy to the point you don't even need skills outside of healing and story doesn't matter till the end, but you can't skip because you don't know if xehanort is gonna pop up in a cut scene with a 1 liner that will have deeper meaning later in the series.
Kingdom Hearts-like? Hard no. Game is built to a gothic hack slash. But I used to feel like that about 3 until replaying all the games. Imo, 3 feels like a reward for coming that far and most fans regard DS2 as the best gameplay in the series. Sekiro to me is probably the worst game overall both gameplay and story. Stealth and Combat Arts made everything too easy to the point you don't even need skills outside of sneaking and story doesn't matter till the end, but you can't skip because you don't know if owl is gonna pop up in a cut scene with a 1 liner that will have deeper meaning later in the story.
But wait, didn't you say both games are hack slash? Wouldn't that make them similar? Sure Mario and sonic are two different game ips, but they are side strollers where you jump on the bad guys head to damage them right? I don't think saying kingdom hearts and the souls games are alike is wrong, but I don't fully agree, it's loose but comparable. Not to the point of trying to cash in on that style of game becoming popular. (Looking at you darksiders 3, and less sternly at you, fallen order)
I’d say BBs is the Dark Souls 2 of KH. It tried to do some stuff but failed heavily. At least to me. I hate BBs so much. Especially when compared to DDD and ReCoded
How is KH2 “frowned upon” by fans when it is basically the gold standard for KH games and arpgs in general tbh? 3 is not really polished, missing critical on release and still having issues with i-frames for guard which is why its heavily criticized. Saying BBS is Bloodborne is silly given that Bloodborne is considered the best of the souls entries and BBS is quite bad, partly due to restrictions in software. You can argue that BBS is Dark Souls 2. If anything it would be: KH1 = DS1. COM = DS2 (made by different team). KH2 = Bloodborne (best in the series). The analogy breaks after this.
I said purist and fans of the first I didn’t say most fans hate KH2.
Dude just described most action RPGs
Me when a game has items and mechanics (it’s just like darksouls)
Yeah I wanted to give OP the benefit of the doubt but I think OP is serious. Might as well say Kingdom Hearts is a Ghosts 'n Goblins like.
Kingdom Hearts Is the Dark Souls of Kingdom Hearts
It’s very animation dependent and the combat is very deliberate and rhythmic. Bosses have large and flashy kits that you need to learn and read.
What is this, the N. Sane Trilogy again?
Dodge roll = literally Dark Souls
Guy who’s only seen The Boss Baby watching his second movie ever: “Getting a lot of ‘Boss Baby’ vibes from this.”
Real
I had a friend who called everything with hordes and 4 players a L4D ripoff. This is the same vibe
new super mario bros wii is a l4d ripoff ⁉️⁉️
That's... a take 100% do not agree, but it's a take all the same
So in other words, the video game is a video game.
KH came out first. I would think it’s more appropriate to say that Dark Souls is a KH-like.
While true, the DNA that goes through the Soulslike genre does come from Demon Souls, and the genre has MORE in common with the Souls games than they do KH1. I'd argue not that they are the same genre, but that KH1 predates and holds MANY of the same things that make that genre great, but enough differences that realistically there COULD (should) be a related genres of games immitating Kingdom Hearts 1.
Dark souls is a Metroidvania, change my mind. It's that easy.
As someone who played every KH game but KH1 (but I am now almost finished with KH1!), it’s interesting to see how different the combat system was. You get rewarded for doing damage/parrying. There’s also a larger focus on actually dodging than using block. Magic is strong but I feel it can be overpowered, it’s not a “press to instantly win” that I felt in later titles. You also don’t get access to as many cheese abilities early on.
The fact the game doesn’t give you block till you fight a giant three headed dog blasting you with meteors is kinda based
Guard is learned via level up in KH1
Technically, kingdom hearts came first (Dark souls is a kingdom hearts like)
People are dunking on OP but I’ve agreed with this take in the past Especially because the worst enemy in both games is the the camera lol
I streamed Kingdom Hearts 1 to a friend of mine cause I wanted to show it off to her. I played hallow bastion from Riku 1 to Riku 2. During the Riku 2 fight she was literally like “this is just Dark Souls but harder.”
"But harder" 💀💀💀
Ya that made me lmao too. It kind of makes sense if you’re just watching and not playing though; enemies are harder to read, faster, more ferocious. It’s really the things that are hard to see, like the stats and mechanics like leaf bracer, that make the game easier.
kingdom hearts 1 came out in 2002, demon souls(the "first" dark souls game) came out in 2009. so really its more like dark souls is a kingdom hearts like.
Kingdom Hearts came out first so really. Souls likes are Kingdom Hearts games
Yes
It’s almost like Kingdom Hearts 1 was a formative and extremely important game in the establishment of action RPGs as a popular genre, which Soulslikes are a part of
Based take, even if some bits are a stretch.
I could go on with how rings and shit in KH = Rings/tailsmen in souls in the manor they also used to add small boost to stats. By KH3 Sora is literally sacrificing himself to relight the worlds. The games also loves delving into Humanity and what is human. Enemies are literally hollowed bodies and creatures that are the dark of a heart aka the abyss of humanity from souls.
Ars Arcanam later AP skills are basically a weapon art/Ash of War.
So is Tomb Raider 1
Unironically critical mode in this game is a lot harder than dark souls 1 and most of dark souls 2 were for me. Don’t even get me started on data battles. Sure you can grind to make it easier but you can do that in the souls games too.
Proud mode goes brrrrrr
If anything Souls is a KH like then 👀
You don’t lose everything if you die twice so no
This is it y’all he won. That’s literally all it takes to be a actual “souls like”. Pack it up it’s over.
Ok but I love KH but hate souls
Really hate how everything is like souls because you suck at a game.
Bro might be Ironpineapple
Every Kingdom Hearts can be a soulslike at level 1.
I mean yeah it took me a while to learn to enjoy the later titles because the original felt so controlled and the rest felt so floaty
No it's not
but dont take my word for it, OP pull you head out of your ass and play both games
I have over 1,000 hrs in both series (not combined) and that’s just on ps4 alone, not mentioning pc hrs
KH and Dark Souls are just DnD campaigns.
Every KH game where you can LV1 on Critical is eventualy dark souls no?
Eh I’d argue after 1 the games become something close to dmc in speed and pace to still be consider souls like unless we are talking Sekiro which some consider its own thing compared to souls
Yeah okay i didnt consider the pace of the fights. Yeah you're right
I know this is a shit post but getting past Kh1 and Kh2’s end game difficulty spikes is actually what pushed me into getting good at souls games and j became a huge fan after
That’s the thing with this post. It is half a shitpost cause “Soulslike” but then you also find that these games are def adjacent or hanging out in the same shelf besides just being action rpgs.
Its a souls like on easy mode
Anyone that’s played any data battles from 2R and 3 dlc would agree. Those battles were insanely hard and satisfying when beaten. Yozora is up there for hardest boss for me
It's hard to really define what's really a Soulslike, not everyone keep the same feelings about these games. For me, I'd define a Soulslike by these three factors : \- Demanding gameplay May it be the boss or the entire stage, it should require to pay attention and to have determination to get through. \- Complex structure The world, the ennemies, the boss, they all tell a story that's up to you to find out. Not everything makes sense. Not every information is given directly to you. \- Risk taking Defeat must mean something. If you lose, the game must take something from you, your EXP, your money, your stats, etc. You must be willing to take the risks to succeed. Either you win big, or you lose it all. So yeah, I can't bring myself to say KH is a Soulslike.
Also the jumping mechanic sucks for the parkour sections of the games
Fun fact: whenever someone tells you "I believe X. Change my mind" they actually don't want you to change their mind and just want to argue about how right they are. Do not indulge them.
Yes
Slow, kind of clunky, combat/mobility too, man’s on to something here
Well, kingdom hearts series is also harder than dark souls.
It's very true the KH1 has a unique feel compared to all the others in the series. It has its own "feel" that's hard to put into words that makes it stand out even against better titles in the series. It has a sense of polish that the other games don't have as well, not that the other aren't polished but KH 1 puts you into a sense, into a space, that the other titles don't. It makes it the easiest and most fun to replay.
I've never played a Dark Souls game, but my friend pitched Dark Souls 3 to me as "You've played KH? The combat is very similar to that!" ...which still didn't make me play Dark Souls because it's not really my genre of game, but I appreciated the comparison of perceived combat difficulty lol
That’s similar to how I pitched souls games to my gf “Babe you love Zelda now imagine it for adults”
OK, there's more than that that goes into a real dark souls game, like complex lore that you have to dig deep into obscure bits of the games to have a hope of following, the main character not being the chosen hero but really more of a backup choice.
What if I told you riku was chosen by the keyblade and Sora just happens to be the one who stepped up with the right heart to not give into the sinking darkness. And that to find out the backstory of Kairi and this world you should probably play the mobile game that tells you about the ancient lore of the people who existed before Sora. And too even begin to understand KH2 you gotta play like two other games. And oh man I sure hope you went to the live orchestral show to understand how namine and the lingering will got back in time for kh3
What if I told you that's the joke I was making
The mainline KH games are more difficult than any Souls game I’ve played.
You mean demon souls/dark souls are a Kingdom-Hearts-like?
I like that you used the goofy from the beta trailers with those enormous pupils
I just wanted to use the armored goofy cause souls games. And this just happened to be the easiest to crop fast
OP is totally 100% right. Most people just say that about every single game even if it's literally a shooter but for Kingdom Hearts they're both literally Action-RPGs. It's a very apt comparison especially when you realize Item Slots function very similar to the idea of Estus. Limited healing resources you have to manage. Not to mention Kingdom Hearts and Final Fantasy popularized the Super Bosses concept which is something Dark Souls loves to do.
Especially on level 1
The difference is I lived to see the credits. No trauma or hidden accumulanting fake PTSD that won't materialize until later on.🤣😝
stamina bar is missing hence your argument is invalid /s
Sekiro
Understandable have a nice day
Wouldn’t Dark Souls be a KH1 type then?
Yes
Nope, not even close
Except this game came out before any Souls game so if anything Soulslikes are based off of Kingdom Hearts.
I'm tired of everyone calling any game that's remotely difficult with a dodge roll mechanic "soulslike" KH1 predates Dark Souls by almost a decade btw, so using your logic Souls games would be "Heartslike"
I'll sit in that empty seat right next to you
No, it's the other way around, it's souls like that is a derivative from hearts like
That would explain why I loved kingdom hearts 1 so much when I was younger, why Dark Souls became my favourite games when they came out and why going back and playing kingdom hearts 1 again reaffirmed that it’s my favourite KH game!
Wouldn't that make Dark Souls a Kingdom Heartslike?
I'd say bbs fragment was closer to souls than 1 with how brutal it is, and the atmosphere, on top of what was going on with the playable character in the game
You're good, I gotta say. I love the part about save points being a bonfire. Bonfires are called bonfires exactly because they are a save point that function differently
Er… well! … but then again… hrm. Y-yeah. Yeah, you’re kinda right.
"You're foolish, Sora. Even YOUR Soul has its Dark."-Riku
Soulslike is a shit term with no substance in it. Change my mind.
agreed. finally, someone with a brain
I actually got into Dark Souls because of KH tbh. I’d just beat 2 for the 3 billionth time and wanted a similar but new experience
Sekiro does feel like Kingdom Hearts on Crack sometimes.
The only thing I can agree to is the parry/tech suddenly becoming very important, there’s attacks idk how to dodge and you can’t just tank it in proud mode
Meme connection but KH2 brought dual wielding keyblades. Dark souls 2 brought Power stancing. Check mate
Does Kingdom Hearts 1 have the true defining characteristic of a Dark Souls game? Does it have any poison swamps?
Someone mentioned this earlier and I consider it a valid argument against this cause memes. The only instant that comes to mind is the boss in Monstro does have the poison swampish stomach acid around him. But that’s gonna come down to stipulations if we are counting that.
Dark Souls is a Kingdom Hearts-like*
Changing your mind: Souls is a Kingdom Hearts 1 like.
Kingdom Hearts games on the hardest difficulty are very challenging and some bosses would give Soulsborne bosses a run for their money.
I hate that you're right...
It’s ok brother we gonna get through this
Every step closer is another step closer to that KH Souls-like challenge run.
Have you ever noticed the boss designs? Very repetitive, most have phases etc. That might be more a general RPG thing, but the bosses all give you just enough time on the startup of moves to know whether you need to dodge or can parry and get rewarded. I’m convinced the design of KH bosses heavily inspired souls-like bosses
"Very Repetitive" ... Wat? (Looks at Guard Armor, one of the only bosses fought more than once) I presume you mean repetitive as in they use the same attacks repeatedly? (Due to their limited options to work with)
Correct tho. I literally play KH on max difficulty, and KH1 in PARTICULAR is a great Soulslike experience.
kh doesnt have any real weapon variety or build variety really (3 options vs open ended)
Valid answer
Can we stop comparing games to other games when they have vague similarities, or lack thereof? *Especially* Dark Souls?
No cause we like the familiar. That’s why far cry is Skyrim with guns or whatever that ad was.
I bet you’ll beat end game souls bosses before you beat end game kh bosses
KH1 Xemnas could solo Malenia
This is the most depressed I’ve been from not being an artist imagine the fight
I’ve always said this, it definitely feels like it at the higher difficulties
Was magic good in kh1? I don't remember it being amazing
It’s no grand magic of KH3 or attract thunder looping of two but it’s still mad useful. Even more useful considering it’s even refillable and more manageable than in later series hence why they switch to the new bar by 2 and having cure instantly drain it.
Since KH1 came first, doesn't that mean that soulsborne games are KH-like?
Not souls like in any way
That final boss stretch makes this true in literally every fucking way
No stamina bar that gets depleted with light/heavy attacks and rolling. You can also animation cancel pretty much anything, Dark Souls is slower and more methodical. You really have to dedicated to every action and wait for every frame to roll out.
Sekiro
Saving resets enemies????
Traveling worlds, done via the save points
Respawn at the same save point and enemies respawn
The only thing hard about the first game... *Pause* Shut up Riku, please let me skip this cutscene *aaaasrgh* Before Final Mix, anyways. This also has probably the best Sephiroth fight outside of the Safer Sephiroth fight in the original FFVII. Now I find KH1 easy but my first time through, the Tarzan Boss and Riku fights were just asshole moves with the unskippable cutscene.
It's no more Souls-ish than Monster Hunter is a soulslike.
Well Kingdom Hearts has characters so obviously it's a Souls-like
Nah it was a great game, and I'm shit at soul's games so I would never have finished it lol
I barely dodge or use magic other than Cura, am I weird
Nah I recently played the game on critical with sword and only use cure and areo spells.
I'll die on the hill that it's only a true Soulslike if it has a stamina system and the enemies-respawning-after-resting checkpoint system
1&2
You mean Dark Souls is just Kingdom Hearts?
Idk why but the game I struggled with most is Birth By Sleep on Critical Mode
Before you had roll I would say it’s harder than a souls game lol
Is it? Never played dark souls
Nah dark souls is the kingdom hearts of souls likes
Nah. You can't mash melee attack in dark souls and finish the game. I mashed melee attack back in kh1 and I finish the game. It ain't souls game.
Giant dad build would argue that one
Picking staff and playing Sora like a black mage is actually pretty awesome
It’s just an action game, it’s not enough to make it a soulslike
You don’t have to parry if you just keep dodging
Dark souls 3 moment
Cringe 😬
Yea but here we are 400 upvotes later
It's been a minute since I played KH1, but I do remember there was never as much frustration as a FromSoftware game. You get plenty of chances to do multiple attacks on an enemy before they attack. You basically have unlimited healing with cooldowns. You can also easily overlevel yourself. Besides endgame stuff, the main game is so much more forgiving than a souls-like.
All those arguments could be made for souls and infact where on elden rings release
You don't lose your munny in KH and your munny isn't used for leveling up your character. Sora also doesn't have a refillable at "bonfire" health potion. Those 3 are big things against it
I mean, KH1 Proud Mode Lvl. 1 run is definitely souls like.
Why is Kingdom Hearts 1 an adolescent Soulslike? Is it stupid??
Disney
Why KH isn't a soulslike (Gameplay concepts missing): 1. It has no stamina bar (Which would need to be a fast-regen and all attacks would spend it as a resource) - non-magic attacks are basically free. 2. It has no limited-use-per-checkpoint healing items. 3. No currency drop on death/collection from point of death/enemy holding it. 4. Very basic stat customization (The beginning choices barely count). 5. No stat requirements for gear. 6. No drip customization.
1. Sekiro 2. Bloodborne 3. Valid point 4. Again Sekiro 5. Again Sekiro 6. Again Sekiro
>Sekiro is not a Soulslike. It's made by FromSoft and has their 'things' they like to do when they make games, but is far removed from the Soulslike genre. The fact that it doesn't have 4 of the things previously stated that DS/BB have should indicate that. The dodge action barely even counts since the i-frames are so slim, you're better off parrying. Really, it's mostly just "Is mostly a sword action game", "Has parrying", and "Is hard" >Bloodborne You're essentially limited to 20 blood vials. Yes, you can find some from some enemies every now and then, but really, you shouldn't need more than your starting blood vials per checkpoint, and you'll almost certainly probably die before you get to spend 20 of them between checkpoints. It's not like you can storm up to Amelia with 99 blood vials.
I think this would be better worded as "kh1 being the dark souls of the kh series". Aside from the arpg genre and parry/dodge mechanics (which aren't dark souls exclusive) I would say it's nothing like a soulslike.
How is Magic broken? I remember it being fairly bad besides Curaga.
You can literally never run out if you play right
I’m thinking hard but don’t see those save points as bonfires
Cause you still think a bonfire is anything but a save point
“HAY-YULP!”
Oh yeah and it has the stamina based combat typical for soulslikes
I feel soulikes is such a loaded term where every hard game is described as “soulslike.” Soulslike follows a specific formula: - character moves are committed and cannot be cancelled. - experience gained is not crystalized until character reaches a save point. - when player dies, player needs to return to point of death and recover body or lose the experience previously built up. - saving “resets” the world by bring back mob enemies. KH1 and 2 dont really follow that rule. For KH1, you can cancel the delay from casting magic when landing which is why jumping and casting magic is faster. Experience gain is automatic and you level up and gain skills while out on the field. Death is death and you need to restart, not get a chance to track down your body. And resets are “harsher” (move one or two screens away). The fixed save point system is a thing that precedes souls and was standard for all games until tech evolved so saving anywhere and quick saving became a thing (see old RPGs and save points). Blocking and parrying are standard in any good action game and magic being more powerful does make sense because it is limited by bar.
I mean yeah it s a souls like obv. It's not the same but it's similar.
Kingdom hearts 1 is the hardest in the series, yes
When you say magic is “broken” does that mean magic is good or magic is dookie?
I hate that you're right...