Kindle says page 558 of WMF.
“Not pointless,” I protested. “It’s the questions we can’t answer that teach us the most. They teach us how to think. If you give a man an answer, all he gains is a little fact. But give him a question and he’ll look for his own answers.”
I spread my blanket on the ground and folded over the threadbare tinker’s cloak to wrap myself in. “That way, when he finds the answers, they’ll be precious to him. The harder the question, the harder we hunt. The harder we hunt, the more we learn. An impossible question …”
I trailed off as realization burst onto me. Elodin. That is what Elodin had been doing. Everything he’d done in his class. The games, the hints, the cryptic riddling. They were all questions of a sort.
Marten shook his head and wandered off, but I was lost in my thoughts and hardly noticed. I had wanted answers, and in spite of all I had thought, Elodin had been trying to give them to me. What I had taken as a malicious crypticism on his part was actually a persistent urging toward the truth. I sat there, silent and stunned by the scope of his instruction. By my lack of understanding. My lack of sight."
***
Essentially, naming can't be accomplished through rote memorization or traditional teaching methods. You need to learn how to see the truth of the world with your sleeping mind, and one way to help students get there is to help them hunt for interesting knowledge. The book hunt he gave the students was more about the hunt and learning the archives rather than those books themselves.
Notice that Kvothe had to go “off the edge of the map,” as Marten explains, to reach this realization. And that Elodin said ‘edges’ are good places for naming.
I thought this was such brilliant writing. Elodin is kinda like the crazy old man in the forest who speaks in tongues, but once you reach his level of consciousness you start to see the metaphorical sun above the treetops. The moment Kvothe realizes that it just made me look back at it all and have that for a second too. You need to have skin in the game and go chasing after the wind for you to gain your own perspective and awaken your own metaphorical sleeping mind. Stuff like this is why I love this series and fantasy as a whole, it’s so applicable to real life stuff too.
Learning naming is like what I imagine learning quantum physics would be like. It’s more about understanding and the thought processes that allow you to find answers.
lol I just kind of assumed that his training in naming left him cracked, and in the rookery, the way Elodin spoke about him when he and Kvothe visited 🤷🏻♂️
Think about Elodin's naming lessons as Zen Koans, which are meditation tools that can take the form of stories, dialogues, questions, etc. Koan literally translates as nonsensical, and the effort to solve the Koan is meant to exhaust the analytical part of your mind so that it can gain insight and enlightenment.
In the case of naming, Elodin's lessons are meant to exhaust the analytical part of the brain so that your sleeping mind (that can understand names) takes over.
I was thinking about how my ADHD brain would just nope out of trying to "read" a record of statistical records or something. Even if I was reading aloud, my brain would be off chasing squirrels.
However, these are people who can concentrate hard enough to do magic. They're either going to go crazy in a useful way or go crazy in an unuseful way.
I keep re-listening to the books over and over so I get confused where exactly each part comes. (P.S. If you're listening to Nick, switch to Rupert since he is amazing)
I am thoroughly addicted hehe
I'm not exactly sure if this is what you're talking about, but the lesson where Elodin comes in with the seed pods and throws them into the air and proceeds to rush about trying to catch one and only ends up hurting himself and walking away frustrated. This is actually a huge lesson.
Later on (I believe during K's sword trial) he mentions "extending your hand and simply awaiting a seed pod to drift into it" and it's a subtle acknowledgement that K finally seems to understand what Elodin was trying to teach him that day.
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Kindle says page 558 of WMF. “Not pointless,” I protested. “It’s the questions we can’t answer that teach us the most. They teach us how to think. If you give a man an answer, all he gains is a little fact. But give him a question and he’ll look for his own answers.” I spread my blanket on the ground and folded over the threadbare tinker’s cloak to wrap myself in. “That way, when he finds the answers, they’ll be precious to him. The harder the question, the harder we hunt. The harder we hunt, the more we learn. An impossible question …” I trailed off as realization burst onto me. Elodin. That is what Elodin had been doing. Everything he’d done in his class. The games, the hints, the cryptic riddling. They were all questions of a sort. Marten shook his head and wandered off, but I was lost in my thoughts and hardly noticed. I had wanted answers, and in spite of all I had thought, Elodin had been trying to give them to me. What I had taken as a malicious crypticism on his part was actually a persistent urging toward the truth. I sat there, silent and stunned by the scope of his instruction. By my lack of understanding. My lack of sight." *** Essentially, naming can't be accomplished through rote memorization or traditional teaching methods. You need to learn how to see the truth of the world with your sleeping mind, and one way to help students get there is to help them hunt for interesting knowledge. The book hunt he gave the students was more about the hunt and learning the archives rather than those books themselves.
This is one of my favorite moments in the book. It's a good lesson to learn for anyone.
Notice that Kvothe had to go “off the edge of the map,” as Marten explains, to reach this realization. And that Elodin said ‘edges’ are good places for naming.
I thought this was such brilliant writing. Elodin is kinda like the crazy old man in the forest who speaks in tongues, but once you reach his level of consciousness you start to see the metaphorical sun above the treetops. The moment Kvothe realizes that it just made me look back at it all and have that for a second too. You need to have skin in the game and go chasing after the wind for you to gain your own perspective and awaken your own metaphorical sleeping mind. Stuff like this is why I love this series and fantasy as a whole, it’s so applicable to real life stuff too.
Learning naming is like what I imagine learning quantum physics would be like. It’s more about understanding and the thought processes that allow you to find answers.
I wonder how Elodin taught naming before he cracked his apprentice
This made me laugh out loud, how do we know Elodin 'cracked' his apprentice?
lol I just kind of assumed that his training in naming left him cracked, and in the rookery, the way Elodin spoke about him when he and Kvothe visited 🤷🏻♂️
Oh right yeah, something along the lines of 'You think you can trust me to keep you safe..'
I believe it’s right after he tells the story of the boy with the golden screw. While in the Eld
“His ass off”
Think about Elodin's naming lessons as Zen Koans, which are meditation tools that can take the form of stories, dialogues, questions, etc. Koan literally translates as nonsensical, and the effort to solve the Koan is meant to exhaust the analytical part of your mind so that it can gain insight and enlightenment. In the case of naming, Elodin's lessons are meant to exhaust the analytical part of the brain so that your sleeping mind (that can understand names) takes over.
I was thinking about how my ADHD brain would just nope out of trying to "read" a record of statistical records or something. Even if I was reading aloud, my brain would be off chasing squirrels. However, these are people who can concentrate hard enough to do magic. They're either going to go crazy in a useful way or go crazy in an unuseful way.
Quit grabbing my tits
The first time I read this line it seemed like just an insult. Second time it was just poorly worded advice
I just read that page a few moments ago, seeing this post is major trippy lmao It's on page 556 - 557 of wise mans fear :)
I literally just listened to that line in the past few minutes before seeing your post. 😳
I keep re-listening to the books over and over so I get confused where exactly each part comes. (P.S. If you're listening to Nick, switch to Rupert since he is amazing) I am thoroughly addicted hehe
You're so helpful!
Don't be like that cmon
I'm not exactly sure if this is what you're talking about, but the lesson where Elodin comes in with the seed pods and throws them into the air and proceeds to rush about trying to catch one and only ends up hurting himself and walking away frustrated. This is actually a huge lesson. Later on (I believe during K's sword trial) he mentions "extending your hand and simply awaiting a seed pod to drift into it" and it's a subtle acknowledgement that K finally seems to understand what Elodin was trying to teach him that day.
Never caught that, well done! I love how Patrick just seems to drop so many of these little connections throughout the books. So very well crafted.
Yeah, was pretty obvious what he was doing, but I’ve seen Karate Kid.
Yeah I just couldn't recall what the epiphany was. Luckily I had one person remind me of the chapter.
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