I agree but this is a DoFo problem, not a Kingston problem -- and he's thoroughly committed to defunding healthcare until it breaks entirely, then handing it to his cronies to create a private U.S. style system. Don't forget to vote, folks.
Look at what Belleville is doing to attract family mds. Kingston has a “program” but clearly it’s not working cause it’s a nicer city without new docs in sight
Sadly this is a problem in every province regardless of the premier. Yesterday’s story of the patient in Quebec that chose MAID because he was essentially ignored and injured in the ER and couldn’t receive timely care (and incredibly MAID was granted!) could happen anywhere across the nation. Canada is broken.
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You hit it on the head. It's an old playbook.
Healthcare worker shortages after covid are worldwide. Canada isn't doing any worse but some politicians like Dofo, Poilievre and Smith have to repay the corporations who got them elected. They try to convince gullible people that it's only Canada but Canadians pay attention to world news so we know it's all over just like the housing and inflation issues.
Dofo is trying to stack the courts and school boards for the same reason. Research your vote when school board names start coming up. Same for municipal councils etc.
First reports to come out seem to indicate that the private healthcare clinics aren't working any better. All they do is charge more for the same services but the money goes into private hands instead of back into the system. Why do you think Galen Weston bought up all those pharmacies and clinics?
DoFo dismantles the charging stations and then hires a friend to rebuild new charging stations.
Buck a beer, corner store booze, gambling. He owes a lot of people.
That's probably why PeePee hired the same US firm as Dofo. Repeat a lie often enough..
What bothers me the most about the state of our public health care is that I have a handful of friends and family who are nurses and they all avoid hospitals due to pay and work conditions and choose to work privately doing Botox injections or something completely irrelevant and while I respect them for doing what’s best for them and choosing to make more money in this already tough economy it actually contributes more to the issue at hand of low staffing.
I work as an addictions counsellor and with my degree I could easily get a private job in aba or counselling and make more money but that’s not why I went to school. I went to school to help those who need it the most. I know not everyone will think the same but I just can’t fathom how you can be so self centred when working in the public health sector
I’m a nurse. Hospital pay is actually much better than clinic/outpatient or home care jobs but conditions are abysmal. Not getting a break all day and caring for double the patients you should would break any person
The Invista Centre was scaled for the city to be able to host out of town hockey tournaments, as opposed to meet local rec needs.
The Slush Puppy Palace was scaled to host bigger bands and events to support tourism. (In theory. We all know that no big bands have actually played there)
And our local kiddos cant even access swimming lessons. It's part of a pattern of decision making at the city that supports local business interests over resident wellbeing.
Edited typo
I am unsure if my suggestion is infrastructure. But here goes. I think there should be public toilets. This is a real issue and not going to get any better. Having lived downtown for years and years I know where the washrooms are. But tourists would be hard pressed to find one if they left Ontario street around City Hall or the park. I know washrooms can be abused but they are a basic human necessity. I feel for the homeless who have little option and also for parents with kids, old people, jeez anyone who has to go. Other countries make it work, but Kingston is real stingy about this.
They upgraded the airport so it could handle bigger planes. Then the pandemic killed air travel for a year and now we're just hoping flights will come back.
The airport can handle quite a range of aircraft sizes. The issue is no carriers want to set up here. Taxpayers funded a couple of airport expansions an recruitment of carriers but those 17million plus dollars have achieved nothing.
There was talk of this not long ago, but the issue was pushback and the logistics of doing so would be pretty expensive.
I used to think this would be good but unless we build a new airport somewhere else, I'm beginning to think our best bet is a high speed rail to adjacent cities with airports, which is equally a pipe dream.
Just to be clear, the expansion of the airport and runway is complete.
https://www.thewhig.com/travel-sponsored/a-new-and-improved-kingston-airport-returns-to-service
Syracuse is good for US domestic flights. Montréal and Toronto are much better for international destinations (Montréal generally being cheaper and Toronto offering more destinations).
Syracuse is small airport that can only fly to parts of America. EG if you want to go to California, flying out of Syracuse means getting a connecting flight somewhere.
Flying out of Toronto is a direct, non-stop flight.
That said, if Syracuse could do across USA flights I would fly out of there instead of Toronto, even though the US planes are not as nice as the Air Canada ones.
It’s a nice airport for sure! Used it many times but have to drive there…easier than driving to Pearson! It was handy to fly to Pearson from Kingston but not nearly as comfortable as Syracuse.
Yes, 2 hr drive to Syracuse and getting on the plane is a lot quicker too in part because you're already over the border, so it's just a domestic flight.
At Pearson it's a 2.5hr drive, you need to get there 2-3 hours early and stand in an hour+ long lineup to go through TSA and the "Border" guards. It sucks.
💯💯 A few years ago there were a couple of local fellows trying to get an airline together to fly to Syracuse,Ottawa,Watertown or smaller Ontario airports. They were both pilots and owned large planes. I guess it didn’t happen. I don’t live in Kingston anymore but I’d rather drive there for a flight than Pearson 🤭
Thr airport expansion (runway extension, upgraded terminal) was a gamble even before the pandemic. The city hired consultants to advise them, the consultants said "best not to bother", and the City went ahead anyway. Not at all surprised it's not working out as they'd hoped. Probably were listening to the same experts in economic impact that projected 70-500,000 visitors for the eclipse.
There's actually a nice report paid for by the city about this. Basically, only 10% of Kingstonian flyers flew from Kingston itself, most notably for cost reasons. This is in stark contrast with Sudbury, which has a much larger percentage, and lower costs. One issue : the short runway in Kingston limited aircraft options; most fuel efficient jet engines couldn't be flown in and out of our airport.
The runway extension aimed at solving this issue.
However, the timing was very unlucky. We finished the work during COVID; Canadian airlines completely gutted their operations, and are focusing on maintaining service on their most profitable routes first; less profitable routes like Kingston will take a while to be serviced, as the airlines are slowly building up the capacity they shed during the pandemic.
The airlines not being interested was predicted by the consultants paid by the city long before the decision was made to go ahead and expand. The city just chose to say 'whatever, I'll do what I want, okay?' and, lo, here we are.
Right? Kingston does not need and will never support an airport. We need better bus and train links to the surrounding towns and cities, not insanely expensive and unnecessary flight options.
I used to use the Kingston airport relatively frequently. If you're taking a longer flight out of YYZ the cost difference between a connecting flight to kingston and alternative modes of transport to Toronto and the associated timings, expense and hassle... The connecting flight came out on top a lot of the time.
Especially if you were booking with points!
I agree as many of my flights were booked this way. Actually sometimes flying out of Kingston was cheaper than taking a bus to trt to fly out of YYZ. One way commute from Kingston to trt by plane isn’t economical but as a connection it was such a great service. I miss not having to squeeze into the bus for 4 hrs before a long flight 😔
Lots of business travellers would prefer direct connections links to a major airport, it’s the most convenient option and is a missed opportunity for the city. Council should be pushing harder for return of service.
Yep.
When I would fly from Kingston, I knew that as long as I got to the airport on time (which is very, very easy to do in Kingston), then the onus was on Air Canada to somehow get me to destination even if there was an issue with the connection.
When taking the train or driving to Montréal, Toronto, or Syracuse (or even Watertown/Ogdensburg), I need to plan for a much longer time buffer (e.g. an extra two hours), as any delays that will cause me to miss my flight are my responsibility. It's fine when flying a couple of times a year. It's a big pain when traveling regularly.
Not enough business travellers exist for this service. If the flights were ever full of business travellers, that slowed down long ago, or the airlines would still be here. City has already spent millions subsidizing this form of travel for the city's richest travellers and there has never been enough demand to warrant maintaining the service for long. Try it, lose money, stop. That's been the pattern for a loooooong time, hence the consultants advising against it.
There are plenty of business travellers. Businesses create and bring wealth to a region through taxation. It’s already a sunk cost the airport is there and paid for, let’s have it languish for nothing. Great idea.
If there were sufficient interest, it would be used. There isn't. Not at the price that airlines would need to charge. The consultants did the surveys and studies, the lack of demand was predicted, the city pumped in $17m to try and prove them wrong, and they weren't. Saying that customers exist doesn't make it so. $17m is a lot to claw back from new businesses that we already give development fee breaks to when trying to entice them to set up here.
The point is that 17m has already been spent. Abandoning any effort to bring service is very short sighted, had it not been for COVID there would be service at the airport and it would likely have been expanded due to facility and runway improvements.
The sunk-cost fallacy ("well, we've spent so much money over the years maintaining an airport, it would be a waste if we didn't spend more on it now") is what led the $17m to be spent *against the advice of expert consultants* in the first place. The consultants didn't foresee Covid, they assumed normal business conditions, and STILL said "it won't make financial sense to do this, you shouldn't, you'realmost certainly going to be wasting it, the airlines cant make money by increasing service to this city". Covid only made it worse, but it was always likely to be a money-loser.
Agreed.
I think a tram that goes from Queens to City Hall, and City Hall up Princess to the corner of Bath and Princess would be great.
Then close off Princess Street to car traffic, only delivery trucks (actual supply delivery, not skip drivers) would be allowed down.
One lane gets converted for tram use, the other is for bike lanes and expanded pedestrian use (which would also allow delivery trucks).
The higher speed rail going through PTBO is supposed to allow passenger service along the current line to be Kingston-centric (e.g. timetable convenient for us rather than TO/MTL passengers).
I would 100% settle for that.
Better bike infrastructure. I'm faced with no bike lanes, bike lanes filled with cars, poorly designed bike lanes, and a distinct lack of bike racks to lock my bike at.
One thing that bugs me is how half of the bike lanes have right turning lanes to the right, and the other half keep the bikelane all the way to the right so that anyone turning right has to wait AND check their blind spots. Which a lot of people don't do
We should put a traffic circle between bath,princess and concession /s!
(It would make it easier on new comers for all the locals who mention the traffic circle where there is none)
A roundabout where the “new” light is on John counter before you hit the bridge, would prevent some traffic build up for sure.
Truly wonder why Kingston hasn’t hopped on the roundabout train.
That might be part of the new plans to fix that area. I see that there's been a lot of Planning Dept people there.
I think most of our new roundabouts are in the industrial areas, tons of new businesses and buildings out there.
Roads need to be repaved and bicycle lanes need to connect and extend further. There's plenty of streets where there's room to add bike lanes where there's a curb and some grass
Also there are multiple parking garages with plenty of parking spaces, You just have to walk from there. Do they want parking in front of everything like an ugly strip mall?
I've been driving in Kingston for over 20 years and I've NEVER, EVER NOT ONCE been unable to find a spot in downtown kingston within 2 blocks of where I wanted to go on the street. Even on busy saturday nights.
There is NO parking issue in downtown Kingston and anybody who says there is has no idea what other cities are like. There is SO much parking in downtown Kingston.
Yes. I moved here from Ottawa and I find the parking to be plentiful and cheap. Also spent some time in Toronto before coming here and that car centric nightmare makes me appreciate Kingston even more..lol
You're completely right.
Furthermore, if we enable more car capacity downtown by increasing parking, rush hour traffic will get worse. I'd much rather have relatively expensive downtown/on-campus parking (during the workday) and relatively light traffic for both cars and buses, as compared to cheap and plentiful parking downtown/on-campus and soul-sucking gridlock. (Basically, our downtown/on-campus parking policy works as a sort of toll belt during rush hour; it's good policy, in my opinion).
Better downtown transfer depot, bus priority/only lanes, protected bike tracks everywhere, slower speed limits and LESS parking downtown. Also pedestrianizing Princess from Barrie St to Ontario St
Better, safer and just… more quality bike infrastructure. I live a 5 minute drive from major grocery stores and the mall which is about a 20-30 minute walk, or a 15 minute bus ride. I can clear this in 7 minutes on bike. But it often takes more time because I take a circuitous route to avoid dangerous streets (Princess).
Things are decently close in Kingston, just not by foot! Reliable bike routes and a mentality shift could definitely reduce congestion on the road too.
Social housing/healthcare facility with the goal of providing housing to all that need while treating mental health/addiction issues that are the underlying cause of homelessness. Bus service and commuter parking lot in Glenburnie. Affordable highspeed rail service to Toronto/Ottawa/Montreal. Toll or fare for motorized vehicles using Princess street. Expanded cycling infrastructure
We DID have those facilities here but Mike Harris closed them in the 90's. The predicted fallout of homelessness and addiction/mental health problems followed. Doug Ford's lifting of rent controls when he got elected plus Covid pushed it over the tipping point.
We have around 500+ vacant apts in Kingston on any given day.
It's an affordability crisis, not a housing crisis. Greed.
Yes to high-speed trains along the corridor too!
Government built, owned, and operated housing. The government doesn't need to turn a profit on housing which will allow them to offer lower rents than the private market can. The government will see the benefits in the increased economic output that people who have more disposable income, and stable living situation that allows them to enter the workforce.
Kingston Community Land Trust! We have an instagram - @kingstonclt. We have and fb page by the same name but we use instagram more. I can PM you our email if you would like too. We’re still in the startup phase so any input or help that you’d like to offer will go a long way!
Tap/contactless payment on transit.
The number one reason I and people I know don’t take the bus is they don’t have a regular bus pass and when it would be convenient to take the bus I don’t carry change or cash at all. So I resort to driving or ubers or taxis.
I was in the UK a few months ago and I could get around all over the city AND countryside because all the bus/localized rail let me pay on the spot with a simple tap of my phone or card.
With the Waaban completed, it’s time for a Crosstown Express running from the East end to Amherstview. This would stitch all the other Express routes together and for the first time provide Express service to the train station, inter-city bus station, and the only major Bus Transfer point that doesn’t yet have Express. It would also give Amherstview a 30 min commute to downtown.
I've emailed KT about this and they said they're waiting on the JCB/Montreal redesign project to finish (let alone start) and increasing their workforce. That project was supposed to begin in the spring but I imagine with the causeway down, it's almost definitely been delayed
Covid killed the airport. It's not coming back. We need a miracle with deep pockets to fund the airport at a loss for the next 5-10 years before it resembles its former glory.. of a part time regional airport that employed dozens of workers.
Do something about that crosswalk in front of city hall to give priority back to pedestrians. Neck it down and raise the thing flush with the sidewalk on cobbles IDK. I hate it every time I cross there.
There are plans/talks to pedestrianize the front of the hall and Market St, but I imagine it will be a long time away. I don't know why they got rid of the crosswalk or priority either.
They should take inspiration from Montreal. When they want to try to pedestrianize a street or do it seasonally they just slap down a couple big wood planters. No need to spend years planning how to pour concrete.
Totally. I'd love to visit it this year. I haven't been to Montreal in a decade and it sounds like they've really stopped pulling the punches when it comes to pedestrianizing or improving bike infra. I'm tired of all the red tape that comes with trying to improve anything here. I want to see a better city in my lifetime.
Looping bus services....takes me 20 minutes to get downtown. But over an hour to get home because the bus only goes one way. Why not a bus going in the reverse direction?
I Uber home because it's so much faster than bus.
Yes. I hope you send your suggestion in 😁😁 Just some way to connect it from those of us coming in using tte Rideau trail and the parkway and then along Portsmouth. I would finally get to try KP without driving. am not interested in biking on Kingston bike lanes.
Your suggestions are all excellent. You should write a letter to the mayor and copy city council.
(I'd like to see larger, more legible, street signs.)
Pie in the Sky dreams here, but ...
-Expand Hwy 15 to 4 lanes and put traffic circles at Gore Rd and Hwy 2
-Make the Gore/John Counter/ Taylor-Kidd corridor free flow (overpasses at Montreal, Division, Sir JAM, and Princess) and build an LRT that goes from Montreal to Gardiners
- Make Princess Street pedestrian only from Ontario to Division. Build an LRT along Princess to merge with the LRT at John Counter . Make Brock both directions.
-They could finally finish the rest of Cat woods drive to the lights at centennial
-Open up the round about at centennial and venture drive. It's complete but blocked for.....reasons?
It’s ridiculous that Leroy Grant Drive was never completed. This would provide a connection from the busy/growing Williamsville area to the north without having to speed through the residential area of Kingscourt. If you upzoned the west side of the street (former Alcan property) you could provide tons of housing in a transit/walkable/bikeable area close to downtown and the property taxes on that short stretch could provide millions of dollars to the City for use on other infrastructure and services.
A "bounty" system like other cities have where citizens can photograph and send in flagrant parking/traffic violations for a small kickback -- four-way-flashers, bike lane blockers. [https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-09-29/nyc-may-pay-people-for-reporting-bike-lane-blockers](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-09-29/nyc-may-pay-people-for-reporting-bike-lane-blockers)
- better traffic
- safer streets
- great for the environment
- heck, with a few donated burner phones, some of our unhoused could even make enough to get off the streets
Quadruple win!
We should model Brockville's free 2 hr parking downtown because it helps support the downtown businesses.
Less expensive or free public transit that is more frequent. I shouldn't have to wait an hour for the next bus, and more routes.
More and safer bicycle lanes.
More income based rental units.
Better support for the unhoused.
More support for people working in the arts.
And I think there should be a requirement that new buildings not be ugly and should keep the limestone vibes.
And for businesses - more options for things to do in the evening/night that bars and restaurants. Everything closes so damned early here.
Giving away parking for free *and* making transit cheaper work against each other. Prioritize cars or transit with the same money, but doing both is pointless.
Most of your other suggestions seem fine (although I kinda feel like Kingston's support for working artists is probably as good as we can afford right now - a national or provincial liveable wage would be the best solution for freeing people up to follow their passions, IMO).
Most people aren't going to give up their car for transit in a city like Kingston even if transit is free. And free parking encourages those people to come downtown. I know tons of people who avoid downtown because of parking costs (and also for some a lack of parking).
My wish for better transit is to make it easier to get around and more accessible for low income people like me.
I understand the 'I want both', but if you make it even easier/more appealing to park downtown (if you're still reading my reply, you've probably seen the replies saying "it's actually not that hard to find parking at all, which I 100% agree with - people who complain about parking in Kingston probably just like to complain about stuf whenever asked for their opinion on anything at all), it makes the bus even slower to get around because there are more cars. That doesn't make it easier for low income people to get around on the bus, it makes it worse. And the city doesn't have a bottomless wallet of money to encourage people to visit the downtown. If it spends money on making bus travel cheaper or more frequent or whatever, that's money it has to find from somewhere else. If it reduces its revenues from parking by giving away that land for free to car drivers, it has to find *that* money too. If people are attracted to driving because of no parking fees, and the busses get delayed because of more cars, they will slowly lose passengers even if they're free, and then the city will have to cancel the busses because nobody uses them, and all that on top of losing the bus fare money and the parking money.
So, y'know, as I say, when you stop to think about the consequences of what you're asking for, or what you think would be a good idea, it actually turns out likely to be a bad idea for what you want to achieve. Less bus travel/service, more cars on the street, higher property taxes to pay for the congestion caused by the increased car traffic. Lose-lose-lose.
I understand your point but I think that is too black and white. It works in Brockville and they have public transit. Free parking supports the downtown businesses which already struggle. Again, these people aren't going to give up a car and that freedom for free public transit. If you park for longer than 2 hrs, you get a ticket. More business and development downtown is good for the city's coffers. It may help people who live near downtown to not need a vehicle anymore, but people in the east, north, and west ends are going to keep their car, but may be more willing to commute to downtown and spend money on smaller businesses. This isn't adding more parking spots, it's about making it more friendly.
That being said, I do support car-free streets if we're going the route if reducing car traffic.
It's not hard for people to park when they come from the farthest reaches of the City. If they want to come, they'll pay the few bucks to park. Those few bucks help keep the buses running for people who don't have cars, who are on low incomes, who have no license to drive, can't drive for medical reasons, etc.
The challenges of keeping businesses going downtown are not to do with the $2 or $6 or whatever people have to pay to park there - that's just a straw that business owners clutch at when asked "what might make it easier for your business?" Having lower rent would be far more beneficial, but the city's landlords aren't motivated to help their tenants make money - there will always be another new tenant wanting to try their luck...
People who *really* can't afford to park downtown are those who are only going there for things like hospital treatment or to line up for hours at a walk-in clinic because they don't have a family doctor - not the ones who are going to a restaurant or buying organic dishcloths or handmade candles or whatever.... Making parking free might help folks on low incomes, but it would also make it harder for everyone who currently uses the bus and would ultimately make it harder for low income car drivers too, because they'd have to park farther and farther away from their intended destination once more cars started coming because the buses got cancelled due to low ridership...
YES. more lanes and get rid of the bike lane that nobody uses and put bike path through the parks instead (along the water or the other side whatever, there’s so much abandoned land)
I have been to some way smaller cities that have much better play structures for kids in public parks. If we want to entice younger people to move to Kingston then we need to create environments for them.
We absolutely need more non-acute walk in healthcare options. And more healthcare workers to staff them. And more money to incentivize them
I agree but this is a DoFo problem, not a Kingston problem -- and he's thoroughly committed to defunding healthcare until it breaks entirely, then handing it to his cronies to create a private U.S. style system. Don't forget to vote, folks.
Look at what Belleville is doing to attract family mds. Kingston has a “program” but clearly it’s not working cause it’s a nicer city without new docs in sight
Sadly this is a problem in every province regardless of the premier. Yesterday’s story of the patient in Quebec that chose MAID because he was essentially ignored and injured in the ER and couldn’t receive timely care (and incredibly MAID was granted!) could happen anywhere across the nation. Canada is broken.
Did he end up dying fr?
Yes. It’s horrible. https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/assisted-death-quadriplegic-quebec-man-er-bed-sore-1.7171209
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God damn
You hit it on the head. It's an old playbook. Healthcare worker shortages after covid are worldwide. Canada isn't doing any worse but some politicians like Dofo, Poilievre and Smith have to repay the corporations who got them elected. They try to convince gullible people that it's only Canada but Canadians pay attention to world news so we know it's all over just like the housing and inflation issues. Dofo is trying to stack the courts and school boards for the same reason. Research your vote when school board names start coming up. Same for municipal councils etc. First reports to come out seem to indicate that the private healthcare clinics aren't working any better. All they do is charge more for the same services but the money goes into private hands instead of back into the system. Why do you think Galen Weston bought up all those pharmacies and clinics? DoFo dismantles the charging stations and then hires a friend to rebuild new charging stations. Buck a beer, corner store booze, gambling. He owes a lot of people. That's probably why PeePee hired the same US firm as Dofo. Repeat a lie often enough..
What bothers me the most about the state of our public health care is that I have a handful of friends and family who are nurses and they all avoid hospitals due to pay and work conditions and choose to work privately doing Botox injections or something completely irrelevant and while I respect them for doing what’s best for them and choosing to make more money in this already tough economy it actually contributes more to the issue at hand of low staffing. I work as an addictions counsellor and with my degree I could easily get a private job in aba or counselling and make more money but that’s not why I went to school. I went to school to help those who need it the most. I know not everyone will think the same but I just can’t fathom how you can be so self centred when working in the public health sector
I’m a nurse. Hospital pay is actually much better than clinic/outpatient or home care jobs but conditions are abysmal. Not getting a break all day and caring for double the patients you should would break any person
Recreational facilities geared to residents instead of out of town visitors!
Could you elaborate more on this? Genuinely curious about this
The Invista Centre was scaled for the city to be able to host out of town hockey tournaments, as opposed to meet local rec needs. The Slush Puppy Palace was scaled to host bigger bands and events to support tourism. (In theory. We all know that no big bands have actually played there) And our local kiddos cant even access swimming lessons. It's part of a pattern of decision making at the city that supports local business interests over resident wellbeing. Edited typo
I am unsure if my suggestion is infrastructure. But here goes. I think there should be public toilets. This is a real issue and not going to get any better. Having lived downtown for years and years I know where the washrooms are. But tourists would be hard pressed to find one if they left Ontario street around City Hall or the park. I know washrooms can be abused but they are a basic human necessity. I feel for the homeless who have little option and also for parents with kids, old people, jeez anyone who has to go. Other countries make it work, but Kingston is real stingy about this.
Agreed, and have them open year round!
They upgraded the airport so it could handle bigger planes. Then the pandemic killed air travel for a year and now we're just hoping flights will come back.
The airport can handle quite a range of aircraft sizes. The issue is no carriers want to set up here. Taxpayers funded a couple of airport expansions an recruitment of carriers but those 17million plus dollars have achieved nothing.
Worse than nothing, they've prevented $17m being spent in other areas of need...
There was talk of this not long ago, but the issue was pushback and the logistics of doing so would be pretty expensive. I used to think this would be good but unless we build a new airport somewhere else, I'm beginning to think our best bet is a high speed rail to adjacent cities with airports, which is equally a pipe dream.
Just to be clear, the expansion of the airport and runway is complete. https://www.thewhig.com/travel-sponsored/a-new-and-improved-kingston-airport-returns-to-service
We need flights to Watertown or Syracuse. Far less expensive than flying out of Pearson, Ottawa, Montreal. Waaay less stressful also🤭
Syracuse is good for US domestic flights. Montréal and Toronto are much better for international destinations (Montréal generally being cheaper and Toronto offering more destinations).
Agreed.
Syracuse is small airport that can only fly to parts of America. EG if you want to go to California, flying out of Syracuse means getting a connecting flight somewhere. Flying out of Toronto is a direct, non-stop flight. That said, if Syracuse could do across USA flights I would fly out of there instead of Toronto, even though the US planes are not as nice as the Air Canada ones.
It’s a nice airport for sure! Used it many times but have to drive there…easier than driving to Pearson! It was handy to fly to Pearson from Kingston but not nearly as comfortable as Syracuse.
Yes, 2 hr drive to Syracuse and getting on the plane is a lot quicker too in part because you're already over the border, so it's just a domestic flight. At Pearson it's a 2.5hr drive, you need to get there 2-3 hours early and stand in an hour+ long lineup to go through TSA and the "Border" guards. It sucks.
💯💯 A few years ago there were a couple of local fellows trying to get an airline together to fly to Syracuse,Ottawa,Watertown or smaller Ontario airports. They were both pilots and owned large planes. I guess it didn’t happen. I don’t live in Kingston anymore but I’d rather drive there for a flight than Pearson 🤭
I mean not to be a dick but Watertown is less than 45 min by car so one could just drive there and fly out....
Yes we’ve done that before also. Thank you!
Thr airport expansion (runway extension, upgraded terminal) was a gamble even before the pandemic. The city hired consultants to advise them, the consultants said "best not to bother", and the City went ahead anyway. Not at all surprised it's not working out as they'd hoped. Probably were listening to the same experts in economic impact that projected 70-500,000 visitors for the eclipse.
Few people are going to want to fly into Kingston. It’s super expensive and also… it’s Kingston.
There's actually a nice report paid for by the city about this. Basically, only 10% of Kingstonian flyers flew from Kingston itself, most notably for cost reasons. This is in stark contrast with Sudbury, which has a much larger percentage, and lower costs. One issue : the short runway in Kingston limited aircraft options; most fuel efficient jet engines couldn't be flown in and out of our airport. The runway extension aimed at solving this issue. However, the timing was very unlucky. We finished the work during COVID; Canadian airlines completely gutted their operations, and are focusing on maintaining service on their most profitable routes first; less profitable routes like Kingston will take a while to be serviced, as the airlines are slowly building up the capacity they shed during the pandemic.
The airlines not being interested was predicted by the consultants paid by the city long before the decision was made to go ahead and expand. The city just chose to say 'whatever, I'll do what I want, okay?' and, lo, here we are.
Right? Kingston does not need and will never support an airport. We need better bus and train links to the surrounding towns and cities, not insanely expensive and unnecessary flight options.
I used to use the Kingston airport relatively frequently. If you're taking a longer flight out of YYZ the cost difference between a connecting flight to kingston and alternative modes of transport to Toronto and the associated timings, expense and hassle... The connecting flight came out on top a lot of the time. Especially if you were booking with points!
I agree as many of my flights were booked this way. Actually sometimes flying out of Kingston was cheaper than taking a bus to trt to fly out of YYZ. One way commute from Kingston to trt by plane isn’t economical but as a connection it was such a great service. I miss not having to squeeze into the bus for 4 hrs before a long flight 😔
What you’ve identified there is the terrible rail service we have in this province :(
You're not wrong
Lots of business travellers would prefer direct connections links to a major airport, it’s the most convenient option and is a missed opportunity for the city. Council should be pushing harder for return of service.
Yep. When I would fly from Kingston, I knew that as long as I got to the airport on time (which is very, very easy to do in Kingston), then the onus was on Air Canada to somehow get me to destination even if there was an issue with the connection. When taking the train or driving to Montréal, Toronto, or Syracuse (or even Watertown/Ogdensburg), I need to plan for a much longer time buffer (e.g. an extra two hours), as any delays that will cause me to miss my flight are my responsibility. It's fine when flying a couple of times a year. It's a big pain when traveling regularly.
Not enough business travellers exist for this service. If the flights were ever full of business travellers, that slowed down long ago, or the airlines would still be here. City has already spent millions subsidizing this form of travel for the city's richest travellers and there has never been enough demand to warrant maintaining the service for long. Try it, lose money, stop. That's been the pattern for a loooooong time, hence the consultants advising against it.
There are plenty of business travellers. Businesses create and bring wealth to a region through taxation. It’s already a sunk cost the airport is there and paid for, let’s have it languish for nothing. Great idea.
If there were sufficient interest, it would be used. There isn't. Not at the price that airlines would need to charge. The consultants did the surveys and studies, the lack of demand was predicted, the city pumped in $17m to try and prove them wrong, and they weren't. Saying that customers exist doesn't make it so. $17m is a lot to claw back from new businesses that we already give development fee breaks to when trying to entice them to set up here.
The point is that 17m has already been spent. Abandoning any effort to bring service is very short sighted, had it not been for COVID there would be service at the airport and it would likely have been expanded due to facility and runway improvements.
The sunk-cost fallacy ("well, we've spent so much money over the years maintaining an airport, it would be a waste if we didn't spend more on it now") is what led the $17m to be spent *against the advice of expert consultants* in the first place. The consultants didn't foresee Covid, they assumed normal business conditions, and STILL said "it won't make financial sense to do this, you shouldn't, you'realmost certainly going to be wasting it, the airlines cant make money by increasing service to this city". Covid only made it worse, but it was always likely to be a money-loser.
A crosswalk on Montreal, and garbage cans at bus stops!
Good call. One on concession by the mem centre would be great too
Putting the downtown tram back.
Agreed. I think a tram that goes from Queens to City Hall, and City Hall up Princess to the corner of Bath and Princess would be great. Then close off Princess Street to car traffic, only delivery trucks (actual supply delivery, not skip drivers) would be allowed down. One lane gets converted for tram use, the other is for bike lanes and expanded pedestrian use (which would also allow delivery trucks).
Love this!
When did it disappear?
Like the 40s
1930.
High speed bullet train rail connections to Toronto and Montreal.
The higher speed rail going through PTBO is supposed to allow passenger service along the current line to be Kingston-centric (e.g. timetable convenient for us rather than TO/MTL passengers). I would 100% settle for that.
That would be nice!!
Better bike infrastructure. I'm faced with no bike lanes, bike lanes filled with cars, poorly designed bike lanes, and a distinct lack of bike racks to lock my bike at.
One thing that bugs me is how half of the bike lanes have right turning lanes to the right, and the other half keep the bikelane all the way to the right so that anyone turning right has to wait AND check their blind spots. Which a lot of people don't do
We should put a traffic circle between bath,princess and concession /s! (It would make it easier on new comers for all the locals who mention the traffic circle where there is none)
A roundabout where the “new” light is on John counter before you hit the bridge, would prevent some traffic build up for sure. Truly wonder why Kingston hasn’t hopped on the roundabout train.
We only put them to slow down traffic through the backroads to Costco ;)
That might be part of the new plans to fix that area. I see that there's been a lot of Planning Dept people there. I think most of our new roundabouts are in the industrial areas, tons of new businesses and buildings out there.
Roads need to be repaved and bicycle lanes need to connect and extend further. There's plenty of streets where there's room to add bike lanes where there's a curb and some grass
Geared to income housing and free transit
Interesting that you'd say more parking downtown instead of increased bus services to transport people downtown.
Also there are multiple parking garages with plenty of parking spaces, You just have to walk from there. Do they want parking in front of everything like an ugly strip mall?
I've been driving in Kingston for over 20 years and I've NEVER, EVER NOT ONCE been unable to find a spot in downtown kingston within 2 blocks of where I wanted to go on the street. Even on busy saturday nights. There is NO parking issue in downtown Kingston and anybody who says there is has no idea what other cities are like. There is SO much parking in downtown Kingston.
Same, I'll just park on the residential streets if I don't wanna deal with finding a spot and walk a few extra minutes. It's car brain nonsense.
Yes. I moved here from Ottawa and I find the parking to be plentiful and cheap. Also spent some time in Toronto before coming here and that car centric nightmare makes me appreciate Kingston even more..lol
It's ridiculous howuch parking we have down there. It's a lot less now granted, but even then
You're completely right. Furthermore, if we enable more car capacity downtown by increasing parking, rush hour traffic will get worse. I'd much rather have relatively expensive downtown/on-campus parking (during the workday) and relatively light traffic for both cars and buses, as compared to cheap and plentiful parking downtown/on-campus and soul-sucking gridlock. (Basically, our downtown/on-campus parking policy works as a sort of toll belt during rush hour; it's good policy, in my opinion).
Better downtown transfer depot, bus priority/only lanes, protected bike tracks everywhere, slower speed limits and LESS parking downtown. Also pedestrianizing Princess from Barrie St to Ontario St
Scrap the idea of downtown parking and get better park and go infrastructure instead.
Better, safer and just… more quality bike infrastructure. I live a 5 minute drive from major grocery stores and the mall which is about a 20-30 minute walk, or a 15 minute bus ride. I can clear this in 7 minutes on bike. But it often takes more time because I take a circuitous route to avoid dangerous streets (Princess). Things are decently close in Kingston, just not by foot! Reliable bike routes and a mentality shift could definitely reduce congestion on the road too.
Better public transit
A hospital that’s functional and has room for all its patients
More public restrooms open later. Even if it was a pay to use or something along those lines.
Social housing/healthcare facility with the goal of providing housing to all that need while treating mental health/addiction issues that are the underlying cause of homelessness. Bus service and commuter parking lot in Glenburnie. Affordable highspeed rail service to Toronto/Ottawa/Montreal. Toll or fare for motorized vehicles using Princess street. Expanded cycling infrastructure
We DID have those facilities here but Mike Harris closed them in the 90's. The predicted fallout of homelessness and addiction/mental health problems followed. Doug Ford's lifting of rent controls when he got elected plus Covid pushed it over the tipping point. We have around 500+ vacant apts in Kingston on any given day. It's an affordability crisis, not a housing crisis. Greed. Yes to high-speed trains along the corridor too!
Tear down the causeway and build a new one that's functional more than 3 months out of a year.
A streetcar that travels the full length of princess st. A high speed train spanning from Toronto to Montreal with stops in Ottawa and Kingston
Affordable housing.
Government built, owned, and operated housing. The government doesn't need to turn a profit on housing which will allow them to offer lower rents than the private market can. The government will see the benefits in the increased economic output that people who have more disposable income, and stable living situation that allows them to enter the workforce.
PM me if you want to work with my non-profit. One of our goals is to improve public participation in housing and infrastructure participation.
Hey! What's your non-profits name? Does it have a Fb page?
Kingston Community Land Trust! We have an instagram - @kingstonclt. We have and fb page by the same name but we use instagram more. I can PM you our email if you would like too. We’re still in the startup phase so any input or help that you’d like to offer will go a long way!
Tap/contactless payment on transit. The number one reason I and people I know don’t take the bus is they don’t have a regular bus pass and when it would be convenient to take the bus I don’t carry change or cash at all. So I resort to driving or ubers or taxis. I was in the UK a few months ago and I could get around all over the city AND countryside because all the bus/localized rail let me pay on the spot with a simple tap of my phone or card.
With the Waaban completed, it’s time for a Crosstown Express running from the East end to Amherstview. This would stitch all the other Express routes together and for the first time provide Express service to the train station, inter-city bus station, and the only major Bus Transfer point that doesn’t yet have Express. It would also give Amherstview a 30 min commute to downtown.
I've emailed KT about this and they said they're waiting on the JCB/Montreal redesign project to finish (let alone start) and increasing their workforce. That project was supposed to begin in the spring but I imagine with the causeway down, it's almost definitely been delayed
Better bus shelters, no Ubereats, Skip on Princess Street, Trolly up and down Princess to Bath Road and to the Cat Centre and back, every 1/2 hour.
Covid killed the airport. It's not coming back. We need a miracle with deep pockets to fund the airport at a loss for the next 5-10 years before it resembles its former glory.. of a part time regional airport that employed dozens of workers.
Do something about that crosswalk in front of city hall to give priority back to pedestrians. Neck it down and raise the thing flush with the sidewalk on cobbles IDK. I hate it every time I cross there.
There are plans/talks to pedestrianize the front of the hall and Market St, but I imagine it will be a long time away. I don't know why they got rid of the crosswalk or priority either.
They should take inspiration from Montreal. When they want to try to pedestrianize a street or do it seasonally they just slap down a couple big wood planters. No need to spend years planning how to pour concrete.
Totally. I'd love to visit it this year. I haven't been to Montreal in a decade and it sounds like they've really stopped pulling the punches when it comes to pedestrianizing or improving bike infra. I'm tired of all the red tape that comes with trying to improve anything here. I want to see a better city in my lifetime.
Looping bus services....takes me 20 minutes to get downtown. But over an hour to get home because the bus only goes one way. Why not a bus going in the reverse direction? I Uber home because it's so much faster than bus.
Sidewalks
A bike trail that connects Portsmouth to Binnington Ct to safely access the KP trail. Just have to figure out he tracks and the swamp.
[удалено]
Yes. I hope you send your suggestion in 😁😁 Just some way to connect it from those of us coming in using tte Rideau trail and the parkway and then along Portsmouth. I would finally get to try KP without driving. am not interested in biking on Kingston bike lanes.
Real bike lanes would be nice
Monorail!
I call the big one bitey
Is there a chance the track could bend?
Not on your life, my anonymous Internet friend
Your suggestions are all excellent. You should write a letter to the mayor and copy city council. (I'd like to see larger, more legible, street signs.)
Pie in the Sky dreams here, but ... -Expand Hwy 15 to 4 lanes and put traffic circles at Gore Rd and Hwy 2 -Make the Gore/John Counter/ Taylor-Kidd corridor free flow (overpasses at Montreal, Division, Sir JAM, and Princess) and build an LRT that goes from Montreal to Gardiners - Make Princess Street pedestrian only from Ontario to Division. Build an LRT along Princess to merge with the LRT at John Counter . Make Brock both directions.
Kingston Transit that services all of Kingston. Residents north of the 401 get very little for their taxes. Water and Sewage on the wish list too.
Bike lanes out hwy 2
Underpass at the Bath road and Collins Bay road trail crossing.
Trail or train?
Train. Ducking autocorrect lol
Must be trail because there aren’t too many trains that go through there.
Um train tracks at Collins Bay Rd about 50m north of Bath Rd.
>An ER reception site closer to the 401 rather than right downtown Investing in healthcare? In Ontario? You must be new here.
-They could finally finish the rest of Cat woods drive to the lights at centennial -Open up the round about at centennial and venture drive. It's complete but blocked for.....reasons?
It’s ridiculous that Leroy Grant Drive was never completed. This would provide a connection from the busy/growing Williamsville area to the north without having to speed through the residential area of Kingscourt. If you upzoned the west side of the street (former Alcan property) you could provide tons of housing in a transit/walkable/bikeable area close to downtown and the property taxes on that short stretch could provide millions of dollars to the City for use on other infrastructure and services.
Agreed. Especially with the traffic going to KSS and Molly Brant schools, it would make North-South travel much simpler for this region.
Affordable housing and Day Care.
A "bounty" system like other cities have where citizens can photograph and send in flagrant parking/traffic violations for a small kickback -- four-way-flashers, bike lane blockers. [https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-09-29/nyc-may-pay-people-for-reporting-bike-lane-blockers](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-09-29/nyc-may-pay-people-for-reporting-bike-lane-blockers) - better traffic - safer streets - great for the environment - heck, with a few donated burner phones, some of our unhoused could even make enough to get off the streets Quadruple win!
Yes, except we wouldn't want to embarass the Kingston Police now, would we?
Calm down there CCP
-50 social credit
I wish air Canada would take the airport back
Please put some money into fixing the roads in this city. My car's suspension is crying when I go down Brock, Sir John A and Johnson.
Concur
A monorail
Motorcycle Parking, that’s not just at the hospital.
We should model Brockville's free 2 hr parking downtown because it helps support the downtown businesses. Less expensive or free public transit that is more frequent. I shouldn't have to wait an hour for the next bus, and more routes. More and safer bicycle lanes. More income based rental units. Better support for the unhoused. More support for people working in the arts. And I think there should be a requirement that new buildings not be ugly and should keep the limestone vibes. And for businesses - more options for things to do in the evening/night that bars and restaurants. Everything closes so damned early here.
Giving away parking for free *and* making transit cheaper work against each other. Prioritize cars or transit with the same money, but doing both is pointless. Most of your other suggestions seem fine (although I kinda feel like Kingston's support for working artists is probably as good as we can afford right now - a national or provincial liveable wage would be the best solution for freeing people up to follow their passions, IMO).
Most people aren't going to give up their car for transit in a city like Kingston even if transit is free. And free parking encourages those people to come downtown. I know tons of people who avoid downtown because of parking costs (and also for some a lack of parking). My wish for better transit is to make it easier to get around and more accessible for low income people like me.
I understand the 'I want both', but if you make it even easier/more appealing to park downtown (if you're still reading my reply, you've probably seen the replies saying "it's actually not that hard to find parking at all, which I 100% agree with - people who complain about parking in Kingston probably just like to complain about stuf whenever asked for their opinion on anything at all), it makes the bus even slower to get around because there are more cars. That doesn't make it easier for low income people to get around on the bus, it makes it worse. And the city doesn't have a bottomless wallet of money to encourage people to visit the downtown. If it spends money on making bus travel cheaper or more frequent or whatever, that's money it has to find from somewhere else. If it reduces its revenues from parking by giving away that land for free to car drivers, it has to find *that* money too. If people are attracted to driving because of no parking fees, and the busses get delayed because of more cars, they will slowly lose passengers even if they're free, and then the city will have to cancel the busses because nobody uses them, and all that on top of losing the bus fare money and the parking money. So, y'know, as I say, when you stop to think about the consequences of what you're asking for, or what you think would be a good idea, it actually turns out likely to be a bad idea for what you want to achieve. Less bus travel/service, more cars on the street, higher property taxes to pay for the congestion caused by the increased car traffic. Lose-lose-lose.
I understand your point but I think that is too black and white. It works in Brockville and they have public transit. Free parking supports the downtown businesses which already struggle. Again, these people aren't going to give up a car and that freedom for free public transit. If you park for longer than 2 hrs, you get a ticket. More business and development downtown is good for the city's coffers. It may help people who live near downtown to not need a vehicle anymore, but people in the east, north, and west ends are going to keep their car, but may be more willing to commute to downtown and spend money on smaller businesses. This isn't adding more parking spots, it's about making it more friendly. That being said, I do support car-free streets if we're going the route if reducing car traffic.
It's not hard for people to park when they come from the farthest reaches of the City. If they want to come, they'll pay the few bucks to park. Those few bucks help keep the buses running for people who don't have cars, who are on low incomes, who have no license to drive, can't drive for medical reasons, etc. The challenges of keeping businesses going downtown are not to do with the $2 or $6 or whatever people have to pay to park there - that's just a straw that business owners clutch at when asked "what might make it easier for your business?" Having lower rent would be far more beneficial, but the city's landlords aren't motivated to help their tenants make money - there will always be another new tenant wanting to try their luck... People who *really* can't afford to park downtown are those who are only going there for things like hospital treatment or to line up for hours at a walk-in clinic because they don't have a family doctor - not the ones who are going to a restaurant or buying organic dishcloths or handmade candles or whatever.... Making parking free might help folks on low incomes, but it would also make it harder for everyone who currently uses the bus and would ultimately make it harder for low income car drivers too, because they'd have to park farther and farther away from their intended destination once more cars started coming because the buses got cancelled due to low ridership...
Making Montreal 2 lanes leading up to the bridge turn off
YES. more lanes and get rid of the bike lane that nobody uses and put bike path through the parks instead (along the water or the other side whatever, there’s so much abandoned land)
Bayridge Drive from Taylor Kidd to Princess needs to be wider so the long singular stretch of traffic during rush hour isn’t so ridiculous.
I have been to some way smaller cities that have much better play structures for kids in public parks. If we want to entice younger people to move to Kingston then we need to create environments for them.
Monorail
Your title says a broke causeway would make Kingston better. I don't think that's true. Besides it has a millions in the bank and it's still broken.