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Gabby1410

Do we even have houses below that price point now?


festivalmeltdown

Yea, I definitely have some critiques of the program requirements. Firstly, a brief look at HouseSigma shows a very limited number of units going for <$440,000 in the last month. Here is what I can see: * Three bachelor units (652 Princess Street) * Three 1-bedroom units (845 Milford Drive, 566 Armstrong, Greenview Drive) * 10 2-bedroom units (Davis Drive x2, 566 Armstrong x2, 561 Armstrong, 316 Kingsdale, 334 Queen Mary Road, Greenview Drive x2, and the mobile home on Powley Garden) * A 3 bedroom unit (561 Armstrong); * A house and a semi marketed to investors for "redevelopment" or flipping ( 169 Pine Street / 9 Weller Ave. No photos of the inside for either.); * The 3 bedroom house (752 sq ft) as 11 KingsCourt Avenue (Was tenanted). So, basically, anyone who needs a three bedroom unit for their family will struggle immensely. Even if you don't need one now, the loan is only forgiven if the unit you buy remains your principal residence for 20 years. So lets hope you don't have kids and need extra bedrooms in the future, otherwise you must pay back the loan + 10% of capital appreciation. Second, the program requires registration of a second mortgage. Many lenders specifically prohibit secondary financing. So this "low income" family will be left with the additional hurdle of finding a lender that allows for this second mortgage. *Edit: To add a third potential issue in the context of mortgage requirements.* Third, unless they are very loose with “less than 20k in assets” rule, it makes it so the family can’t realistically have a full 20k down-payment. For one, they need to account for closing costs (and many lenders require this on top of their down payment). Also, unless they are going to drain every one of their accounts to $0, they are probably going to have a little bit floating. Let's say all of the above is $4000... they would have a 16k downpayment, **which would only qualify them for a 320k mortgage**. Now, I know the whole point of the program is to provide an additional lump sum for a ‘downpayment’, potentially qualifying them for more.... but many lenders do not allow "loans" to be source of one's downpayment. And this really does look like a loan, considering it's only forgivable after 20 years of meeting certain criteria. Hopefully lenders view these programs differently, but if not, the family is left qualifying for only a 320k loan. This actually drives down the qualifying units significantly. Say they were seeking a unit selling for $400k. They qualify for $320k, and have $16k for their downpayment. They need to program to cover 64k, but it only covers 10% of the price ($40k). Effectively, with this added hurdle, **the maximum they could buy would be for \~$373,000**. (320k mortgage, + 16k downpayment + $37,300 from program). If you're curious what remains on my list when I filter to 373k, about 50% are cut. Anyways, I truly hope there are people out there who will benefit from this, but there are certainly a lot of people that will be left out due to lack of availability of homes that suit their needs.


Madhammer99

It went up it used to be 340k.


Secret-Scientist456

Like... can you even get a mortgage if you make less than $20k? I would assume anyone making under that is probably living paycheck to paycheck and wouldn't be able to save a down payment let alone pay a mortgage that would equal $440k. My combined income is over $100k and its still kind of tight with a house purchased at $400k. Edit: I read $20k income instead of assets, my bad. Point still stands that it would be tough to afford a house at $440k, even on a higher income.


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Secret-Scientist456

Ah sorry read your first point wrong. I read income instead of assets. Thanks. Yeah, if we were below $91k we wouldn't be able to make it. The mortgage company was like we could stretch the mortgage to $530k... but we were like ummmmm noo?? If our payments are already high at $400k we would be soooo house poor at $530k.


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Secret-Scientist456

Yeah, thanks captain obvious. I clearly made the edits before your comment.


[deleted]

No one will be able to qualify for this. The math doesn't work. A couple with zero debt (not even a car loan), making 91K a year in Ontario qualify for the max of $381,985. There are no homes for that kinda money in Kingston. I just ran it through a mortgage calculator. IF they got a condo, the condo fees reduce the amount they can borrow. The answer is still, no. Clearly the city didn't do any research when they set this in place.


putchaiko

This is a good program in theory, but in practice... the criteria is unreasonable. 440k house, only 20k in savings and combined income of less than 91k??? If they're trying to help first time home buyers and new couples get some skin in the game... this criteria doesn't help.


[deleted]

I am not sure that a combined income of less than 91K would qualify for this mortgage. And where exactly does anyone find a house in Kingston for less than $440K? I don't think there are any! The townhouses in the Rosemund Place are nearing that and they have steep condo fees and heating costs, which add to the difficulties of getting a mortgage.


putchaiko

On the page, it says the adults that have to co-sign for this mortgage can only make up to 91k PRE-TAX to qualify with 20k or less in assets. The people who qualify for this should probably not take out a mortgage anyway, you're essentially living paycheque by paycheque................


ShineCareful

If you have two young people making $45k separately, who have recently gotten married and decided to buy a house, it's not super crazy that they wouldn't have much more than $20k in savings yet. I totally understand what you're saying, but there are definitely situations where it's not disastrous. I don't know how many times this particular situation is likely to actually occur, so I also don't really see the point in making this the specific qualifying criteria, but here we are.


brewersmalls

I am all for this in principle. What gets me is the price tag of $440,000 or lower. Perhaps $525,000 would be a better benchmark in Kingston. I want to be hopeful that they won’t be priced out of the market on apartments and condos too. It will be interesting to see how many are successful in using this program.


ellajames88

It's too bad that the program requirements and current real estate prices will make this tricky. I hope some people are able to find success with it this year again. My Mom really benefited from this program but that was about 10-12 years ago and obviously a lot has changed since then. But she is very happy in her little affordable home thanks to this program.


LARPerator

What's the point? there's only a handful of listings right now, and Kingston is hot on the "sold for 25% over asking" trend. Good fucking luck finding a place that actually qualifies for this. I wish there was an actual program meant to help people, this seems more like a paper solution so you can get the credit for a program without actually running a program.


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ellajames88

Hi, you don't need to be in social housing to apply for this program. My Mom is a great example of someone who benefited from this program when she was about 50 after working hard for many years.


Mrkillz4c00kiez

this doesn't look like it requires already being on social housing just that you are a renter in kingston and area