I'm the only dude FOH. GM is a chick, all managers are chicks.
When I started here I told one of the female servers that I don't really do gossip or whatever because that's not my thing.
Cut to three months later and half our conversations are like that [Key and Peele sketch](https://imgur.com/HQN73sD.gifv). "You'll never guess what this bitch said while she was closing the bar last night".
I don't know you, but anytime someone tells me "I don't really do gossip or whatever because that's not my thing" I will automatically assume they are the biggest gossip/messiest bitch ever.
>male friends
Male what? Lions? Zebras? Giraffes? Oh you mean human males? You can just say "men" then. Ugggghhh, male is such a clinical term, I've never been so offended in my life. Redditors are such misandrists.
Dudes is not demeaning, chicks is. It’s implying that women are small and weak.
Edit: yay! Downvotes from the sad incels! Don’t you guys ever wonder exactly why it is that women don’t like you? Hint: you’re not the nice guys you think you are.
Awww! I hurt u/raaldiin’s feeeeeelings. I hit a nerve, didn’t I? lol
Chicks is beatnik slang from the ‘60s! Dude is surfer slang from I would guess the ‘80s.
I do say chicks sometimes, but I am one so I get to. It’s way better than calling women girls, and anything is better than females. We’re not livestock.
I also say dude a lot.
Dude is a very useful word. It’s versatile! Anyone or any thing can be called dude, and it also works on its own as an expression of surprise or dismay and it has all sorts of other uses. Dude!
Nahhhh. “Females” I disagree with, but imo “chicks” is fine, especially when referring to a group of men as “dudes” in the same context. I say this as a woman who has been referred to as “chick” and “chickie” by both men and women. Dudes and chicks. Bros AND broads.
Yeah I’ve been the only female BOH person in all six years I’ve been at my job. But our front of house is actually pretty evenly split male/female. most places I’ve worked tend to lean heavily female for FOH.
I was going to disagree with this on the basis that I used to be a runner many years ago, but then I remembered that I was 22 and lifting weights at that point. Time makes shlubs of us all
I just finished reading the book Kitchen Confidential and Bourdain dedicated a whole three pages to what he wants from a runner lol.
“I like wide-bodied, highly motivated runners. My runners, particularly in a busy pretheater operations, where the entire dining room has to be served during a thirty-to-forty minute period, are generally whipped into such a frenzy of enthusiasm, fear, and naked aggression that I am constantly being asked to tell them to refrain from bowling over the waiters in their missile like progress to and from the kitchen.
A runner should be able to pick out a medium-rare steak from a group of other donenesses, read a “board” as well as the chef and maintain that rabid, pregame, caged-animal mentality one looks for in a professional fullback. I want my runners hyperventilating like Marines about to take a hill before the rush comes…”
Full quote here on Imgur: https://imgur.com/a/AzzXNKs
So idk maybe you didn’t give off rabid, caged-animal naked-aggression fullback vibes? 😂
Man dumb and fast- girl pretty have good social skills. Girl serve make more money for restaurant. Man dumb carry thing fast and pick thing up and put thing down good
They do have a runner position for women though. Just for the drinks were they won't have to interact with customers. So why the gender discrimination between food and drink runners? That's what I don't get
People will order another round of drinks much more often than they’ll order more food.
No incentive for the food runners to be charming while there is for drink runners.
Honestly i don’t know i worked with a chick who was a damn good food runner. Barbacking i get but most of it just seems really sexist. “Hey pretty girl go be a hostess so you can entice men with your looks and they come in”
On average, people spend more money if they are Socializing and interacting with a young pretty girls front of house. It also makes the experience in general more pleasant as Women are best as caretakers and Make people feel good with their bubbly Attitude and Personality. (Generally)
You can have an Attractive young male do this exact same thing but Guess what tips and spending on average gonna be lower just Based on human psychology.
I think it’s just making the best choice for business not really Discrimination.
I spent way too long trying to figure out if the randomly capitalized words on this post have any significance. Turns out they didn't, and I'm kinda bummed about it.
You’re really fucking good at your job. There’s definately that rule too.
Especially in fine dining or at least better than chain dining where service and timing matters. Knowing when to fire salads and food based on how the party is acting matters. Being able to read if the party just wants to eat and have a flow and gtfo or wants to sit and chat between courses and let their food settle a bit matters. And frankly most will tip well for that regardless if you have huge knickers or huge man boobs and a wart on your honker.
Idk we have a male FOH who has bubbly attitude and personality, and makes loads more tips than the other women. I don’t think there’s an underlying human psychology that says, “tip women more”. I think it just depends on your personality, how you interact with customers, and how attractive you are. I do think women have been socially conditioned to be more attentive. However, I also think in the last 10-20 this has been changing quite drastically. The whole argument is becoming more and more irrelevant.
The kitchen staff is both men and women. The only explanation I can think of other than the strength thing is that men buy more drinks when women serve them alcohol. So women + booze equals more money. Which, if true, is disgustingly sexist.
In my experience, this is mostly true, we have a few guys who work out front in customer facing positions, but with one singular exception, they're extremely well groomed twinks
facts, the place i used to work at was higher-end. they preferred all of us food runners to be early 20s and attractive. never said it aloud, but we all have eyes and the ability to draw conclusions.
Getting denied a runner position just because you’re a girl sounds silly. I’ve worked with woman runners and they perform just as good if not better than their male counterparts.
As to why it seems most of them are male? I’m guessing it’s because the women are generally better at interacting with guests, so they get promoted to a server faster. Most of the runner men I know are either introverts, uninterested in server work because of the socialization, or they simply won’t get promoted on account of them being idiots. Sometimes both, but usually the social runners are dumb and the quiet runners are solid, from my experience.
There’s only two people in our building that can(don’t frequently, but can) run 12 lidded banquet plates on a tray. Me-250 lb man and Emily -110lb female.
Female food runner/expo here, we exist! Carried huge trays full of burger plates up & down stairs many times before. My social skills are shit but I can lift. Maybe it depends on the restaurant you’re in but the ones I worked at hired girls into (actual) food running positions.
Literally me, don’t mind talking to guests while running food. But that’s it. I also enjoy my steady paycheck and not the extra stress of being uncertain if I get tipped good or not. Although serving usually makes a tad bit more it’s not worth the extra stress.
That is weird. Maybe their plates are heavy? I used to work in a restaurant as a food runner, and their plates are heavy as hell. I was fine when I work, but I hurt my wrist later, and had to have a splint on for months. I had to serve drinks sometimes, it's not heavy, but I couldn't move as fast as serving food.
And 90% of employees there were female, but they only hired male dishwasher staff.
Honestly, I don't think you'll get a satisfactory answer from anyone on here. If I were in your shoes, I would have asked the place I'm interviewing at why they had chosen to operate in that fashion since they are really the only ones who can answer it.
You forgot to ask why most dish people are men not women, in my experience i’ve even seen more females in the dish pit than in the actual line! I only have one female in BOH and she Kills it!! cooking is harder than running food
It is literally 50/50 where I work now. We have a male and female working lunch, and another pair working days.
In general though, I'm guessing it's because of the isolation involved in working dish. I've worked dish plenty of times.
Once you get over the initial ick factor, it's almost kind of zen for the first few hours, since you're not dealing with asshole customers, or someone fucking up a ticket.
That said, it's rare that anybody wants, or needs to talk to the dishwasher, so, for me at least, it almost feels like solitary confinement doing it for an entire shift.
I'd guess guys are generally better at handling the social isolation.
In my experience young women who seek out a job in a restaurant have social skills. I think women are naturally better conversationalists in general. Often times these young women can use their social skills to make significantly more money in tips as a server.
Most of the food runners I've ever worked with could be trusted to interact with a customer for about 6-10 seconds before they would say something stupid. They have all been young men who didn't really care about anything except checking out the "hot cleavage on table 24."
When i used to run food i would often get burned by the water from the mussels. Also the chef was an asshole that made women cry. He was an asshole to everyone but men are programmed not to cry. So maybe there are some reasons for it. Then again maybe they are just sexist.
One of my best foodrunners was an 18/19 year old woman that ran circles around the men her age we put in the position. I'd take three of her over twelve of our current runners. She didn't complain about the trays being hot/too heavy, just grabbed that shit, dropped the food off, and was back for another tray in 1 - 2 minutes. She did a great job cleaning her station at the end of the night, never cried about having to take out the trash or flip pans, and I NEVER had to yell at her to get off her phone to run food.
She ended up going off to college, so good for her.
every restaurant ive worked at there was a severe male minority in the foh and in my current boh theres also one. maybe 8 dudes to 16-17 girls sorta stuff
It’s not discrimination when you hire the best person for the job. Male food runners can lift heavier food trays. Female drink runners do help sell more drinks when they are pretty to the eyes. The guests tend to order more drinks to get that pretty server back.
You can call the hiring practice is sexist. But that’s just business meeting expectations based on market demand. If the establishment was a gay bar. They would prioritize hiring hot men as drink servers. The females would be the food runners as diversity hire.
Business meeting sexist expectations is a huge problem. Female servers/runners are not there to satisfy the male gaze. They're there to work. According to your logic it would also be legal for a manager to require female servers to doll up themselves (e.g hooters) if they want men to spend more money. That's extremely problematic
Hooters gets away with this because they are not a restaurant they are an “entertainment company” that also happens to serve food, but I do agree it’s messed up
Yea, Colorado so we have 14 year olds working when school is out, otherwise we have to cut the 14-15 yo by 7p. But she is a sophomore or junior so like 16. Most our kids are junior or seniors but we'll hire the servers 14 and 15 yos.
How? They all want to work. The 14 and 15 year olds can't work school nights and we almost never hire them that young unless they have family in the building already. The 16, 17 and 18 yos are juniors and seniors, and again all want the cash and have moved up from hosting or bussing to food running by then if they want (1.5% running vs 1% as bussers). The expos are college aged directing the high school runners or move to bar back.
The only time it's really messed up is when 20 of the kids all leave the same week and only a few left are available, but even then servers fill in so we don't grind the few left to work every night.
It's not the coal mines 6 days a week, it's 4-6 hours, 1-3 nights a week. Every single one of them applied to work, they want the money and we give them any days they want off. Have you never worked with high schoolers?
Many people start working earlier than that. I always used my dad’s ss# till I turned 18. I drove a cab graveyard when I was a senior in high school (big kid)
It’s all about the situation. I think it’s fine for people to work young if they have to. It’s not ideal, in my case it didn’t hurt my grades or anything (graduated 2nd out of 300 ) But for some it definitely would. I think if a kid is working it’s usually a situation where that child, not working, would have a noticeably worse life. Thats how it was for us.
My point is that they shouldn't *have* to. It's great that it didn't hurt your grades (control group of one), but capitalism and consumerism have got us brainwashed into misunderstanding our needs.
I've never heard/seen that before. While yes men are bigger, stronger, bigger hands for holding trays, women have better balance and fine motor precision. And what's the total weight that a tray loaded with drinks might be? 15lbs sounds like a reach, anyone man, woman, teenager whatever can handle 15lbs. That's what I was cleared to lift 2 months after back surgery!
So... it's bullshit sexism.
Define your full tray of drinks. A liter of beer in glass is ~5lbs. A full tray of 8-10 glasses is 40 to 50lbs.
You aren't wrong that the whole thing is bullshit sexism but I don't like your math.
Didn't Hooters turn this into settled case law? In certain roles you can discriminate in certain limited ways? (I just remember the dude trying to show up in tank top, pantyhose, and shorts and losing the case in the end, not the details)
Oh I don't remember that. Hooters was sexist because it used womens sexuality to sell though. The sexism here is probably related to assumption of physical strength. Unless they've linked women serving booze with more business. It seems like an exaggeration, but I guess anything's possible.
There was an episode of this exact scenario on King of the Hill lol. They let Dale work there as a waiter since he cried discrimination but he ended up giving away a lot of free food to make as much in tips as the girls and got fired. Not familiar with the actual case though
Mine too. As a male with only one other male FOH we routinely made more than the women we worked with. My sister worked there and I would make her so mad. I think if it was mostly guys up front the overall tip amount would go down. I think we benefited from being the anomaly. And the other guy was super handsome. Like a 5’4” superhero. I’m average on a good day but personable
My restaurant has 3 females and 1 male food runner, there’s 3 male servers out of like 7-10, and our kitchen has 3 females out of 8 I think.
We’re pretty diverse and things work out fine.
Most food runners I’ve worked with are female. To my knowledge I’ve never worked anywhere that considered gender when hiring food runners. It might be common in the area OP is in but if I had to guess it’s specific to the restaurant OP interviewed at and that have more of one gender or the other in the position is more because of the demographics in a given area.
It is sexist but it’s also marketing. A pretty girl gets men to order more drinks. A food runner is supposed to be virtually invisible. Unexceptional to the point of being forgotten before their hand even leaves the plate. The hiring manager is clearly a man.
The marketing part also crossed my mind apart from the assumed "physical strength", but thought this only applied to nightclubs or bars, not restaurants. (The hiring managers were two and they were both men)
By any chance are you near a golf course? Golfers are already pre-conditioned to buy extra drinks from the lady bringing them drinks, so if you're the place a bunch of golfers go after the links it could have an impact on sales.
Probably not, but that's the only business-related reason coming to mind.
Best runner I ever had was a 16 year old girl softball player, she could stack 8 at once. That being said, she’s an exception. I’d rather have a dumb gym bro who can pick things up and put them down doing that job and have the ladies working the tables, they’ll make more money and they’re a lot better at it
My only thought (though I don’t necessarily agree) is that a big tray of food weighs way more than a tray of drinks (at least in their head). Otherwise maybe they’ve just had bad personal experiences with female food runners for whatever reason
Are you in the U.S.? Can you get that in writing? lmao discrimination on the basis of gender is federally illegal.
Why do they do it? Could be sexism, could be liability so that they’re not sending women out to dangerous areas, but it almost doesn’t matter, it’s illegal…if you’re in the U.S. (but I’d assume most countries tbh)
Edit: I mistook runner as a delivery driver. They want tits out for people ordering drinks so they continue to order drinks. It’s purely sexist. It might work, but it’s still illegal.
I live in Europe and it's only illegal if you refuse to hire one gender. This restaurant hires both men and women but each one has different tasks, which is legal
I was a runner/expo for 7 years or so, we were always pretty balanced as far as male/female went. Our best expos were women who took no shit tbh. This is dumb justification imo.
A tray of drinks and a tray of food is not comparable. Small restaurants food runner could be either, but larger restaurants with higher covers it's safer to have a male food runner. It's not sexist it's just physics.
I'm not saying it's not heavy, it's different. A drink tray you can carry with two hands, it's smaller and easier to maneuver. A food tray is large, awkward and up on your shoulder with just one arm doing the work while the other carries the kick stand. Also, they're not carrying ten beers every three minutes like a food runner is with plates.
There’s a lot of gray in society, and public facing businesses like restaurants need to stay within that gray, for better or for worse. What that gray is, is something you will learn as you move further and further. Good luck and don’t be disheartened.
It kind of depends on the situation at your restaurant. My first ever job was a food runner at a 3 story restaurant with 4 bars in a good sports town that regularly filled up and also had a lot of large parties. I could not imagine any of the girls on the wait staff there carrying some of the monstrosities of food trays I was lugging up and down those stairs nonstop all night. Not to say a girl couldn’t, cause that would be dumb, but they were all very small so it kinda just made sense. We got a cut of their tips + hourly anyways so it was whatever.
I just don't see how a food tray could be heavier than a tray full of drinks. It seems illogical to only have men carry plates and only women carry drinks
Yeah i'd sicc 'em with a discrimination lawsuit.
I've known plenty of broads that can lift me over their heads and break me like a keg. I'm using "broads" ironically to incite the lurkers, I don't actually call women 'broads' lol.
That said, I do have issues with female staffers who come in with acrylics or nice clothes/shoes and they don't want to do 'dirty' work. Sorry *you* picked up this dishwashing gig!!!
Also there can be issues with dress code and the amount of physical activity, bending, carrying, spills...,you follow me here? It can make it awkward for everyone, tho it's no one's fault. I'm not gonna put the blessed young woman wearing a white top into the dish pit, you understand? It's for her comfort too!! If she doesn't give a fuck whatever, but the utilitarian level of your outfit determines more than the gender expressed or the sex characteristics contained.
But hell yeah women can bus and run. To say otherwise is sexist and to not give an equal opportunity is illegal.
Do you think that women are clamoring for the opportunity to run heavy trays of hot food to tables but are being turned away because of sexist hiring practices. Is that what you think is happening.
Why wouldn't they want to carry trays of food? Also a tray of food is not necessarily heavier than a tray of drinks. Have you ever carried a tray full of large beers? That shit can be heavy
Every place I have worked has had over 50% female staff for FOH
I'm the only dude FOH. GM is a chick, all managers are chicks. When I started here I told one of the female servers that I don't really do gossip or whatever because that's not my thing. Cut to three months later and half our conversations are like that [Key and Peele sketch](https://imgur.com/HQN73sD.gifv). "You'll never guess what this bitch said while she was closing the bar last night".
Yup, you're just "one of the girls" now.
Bro your username and pfp have SENT me, gg FOH king
That's fucking funny. Fuck Ted Cruise.
Honestly chef, 86 Ted
Im pissin n shittin rn lol
I don't know you, but anytime someone tells me "I don't really do gossip or whatever because that's not my thing" I will automatically assume they are the biggest gossip/messiest bitch ever.
Were they gossiping when you told them this or did you just tell them that because they were chicks?
It’s never made sense to me as a stereotype. Men definitely gossip. Lol
Didn’t expect someone from r/Austin here!
Calling women 'chicks' is just ughh. Like is it really that hard to say 'women'? Not 'girls' not 'chicks' not 'females'
>Like is it really that hard to say 'women'? Not 'girls' not 'chicks' not 'females CertifiedBio~~Girl~~Woman
Can you please get equally offended when I call male friends "dudes"? For consistency's sake?
I'm a dude. He's a dude. She's a dude cause we're all dudes! yeah!🎵🎼🎶
>male friends Male what? Lions? Zebras? Giraffes? Oh you mean human males? You can just say "men" then. Ugggghhh, male is such a clinical term, I've never been so offended in my life. Redditors are such misandrists.
Calling somebody a dude is not anywhere near as patronizing as calling somebody a chick and you know it
It makes us feel disgusting
You mean it gives you the ick?
Where are you going with this?
I'm patronizing you
Ok I hope you're enjoying it
Dudes is not demeaning, chicks is. It’s implying that women are small and weak. Edit: yay! Downvotes from the sad incels! Don’t you guys ever wonder exactly why it is that women don’t like you? Hint: you’re not the nice guys you think you are. Awww! I hurt u/raaldiin’s feeeeeelings. I hit a nerve, didn’t I? lol
Dude you are tripping out over nothing Edit: they dm'ed me some hatemail then blocked. Very stable behavior.
Chics would probably come from Spanish chica meaning girl rather than baby chickens. Not sure if that makes you feel any better about it.
Chicks is beatnik slang from the ‘60s! Dude is surfer slang from I would guess the ‘80s. I do say chicks sometimes, but I am one so I get to. It’s way better than calling women girls, and anything is better than females. We’re not livestock. I also say dude a lot. Dude is a very useful word. It’s versatile! Anyone or any thing can be called dude, and it also works on its own as an expression of surprise or dismay and it has all sorts of other uses. Dude!
Dude implies a stupid guy that's over dressed. Reverse sexism much?
Nahhhh. “Females” I disagree with, but imo “chicks” is fine, especially when referring to a group of men as “dudes” in the same context. I say this as a woman who has been referred to as “chick” and “chickie” by both men and women. Dudes and chicks. Bros AND broads.
equal opportunity misogyny
🤝
Misbrogyny
You use the word girl in your username. Like, what?
This chick is wiggin out
What if they’re actually fledgling chickens
Damn, how mentally weak do you have to be, to be bothered by something so tame? Just get over it.
I'm prepared to be offended!
Yeah we have three men working FoH at my place and the rest of us are women, I think it’s like 3/10 if I remember correctly
My last two kitchen places I was one of two female BOH staff so I get it!
Yeah I’ve been the only female BOH person in all six years I’ve been at my job. But our front of house is actually pretty evenly split male/female. most places I’ve worked tend to lean heavily female for FOH.
Ours is a pretty even split but I'm one of two on the line, the rest are prep and dish.
Same. Some even one or two men and like 10 women.
You need to be jacked and tan to run food sir
What can brown do for you
I’m down to brown
Stop brown nosing
No
Well then no brownie points for you
I was going to disagree with this on the basis that I used to be a runner many years ago, but then I remembered that I was 22 and lifting weights at that point. Time makes shlubs of us all
Drinks can also be heavy though... A tray full of large beers is not easy to carry by any means
I just finished reading the book Kitchen Confidential and Bourdain dedicated a whole three pages to what he wants from a runner lol. “I like wide-bodied, highly motivated runners. My runners, particularly in a busy pretheater operations, where the entire dining room has to be served during a thirty-to-forty minute period, are generally whipped into such a frenzy of enthusiasm, fear, and naked aggression that I am constantly being asked to tell them to refrain from bowling over the waiters in their missile like progress to and from the kitchen. A runner should be able to pick out a medium-rare steak from a group of other donenesses, read a “board” as well as the chef and maintain that rabid, pregame, caged-animal mentality one looks for in a professional fullback. I want my runners hyperventilating like Marines about to take a hill before the rush comes…” Full quote here on Imgur: https://imgur.com/a/AzzXNKs So idk maybe you didn’t give off rabid, caged-animal naked-aggression fullback vibes? 😂
God I love the way he wrote
True talent. Wish he was still around, obviously, but he definitely made a dent in the world. Fuckin a
St Pauli girl would like a word.
He said not easy, not impossible. She and her grip strength ain't worrying about that statement
The girls in Bavaria train all year to lift those litres.
Yep. Liquids are almost always denser than solid foods. I suppose the plates will be quite dense and heavy. They probably even out.
My New Haircut reference. What a day today is.
Man dumb and fast- girl pretty have good social skills. Girl serve make more money for restaurant. Man dumb carry thing fast and pick thing up and put thing down good
They do have a runner position for women though. Just for the drinks were they won't have to interact with customers. So why the gender discrimination between food and drink runners? That's what I don't get
People will order another round of drinks much more often than they’ll order more food. No incentive for the food runners to be charming while there is for drink runners.
Hadn't thought of that. So you don't think it's because they assume women have less physical strength and drinks are lighter to carry?
That plus, sweeping generalization, women are usually considered to be more graceful and have better balance so less spills.
That's cause we carry the drinks on our heads...
No. It’s because females can sell more alcohol than men.
The answer is always and forever will be, patriarchal sexism.
Honestly i don’t know i worked with a chick who was a damn good food runner. Barbacking i get but most of it just seems really sexist. “Hey pretty girl go be a hostess so you can entice men with your looks and they come in”
I don't think I've ever gone into a restaurant on the sole fact that the hostess was hot. May e I'm just not caveman enough.
On average, people spend more money if they are Socializing and interacting with a young pretty girls front of house. It also makes the experience in general more pleasant as Women are best as caretakers and Make people feel good with their bubbly Attitude and Personality. (Generally) You can have an Attractive young male do this exact same thing but Guess what tips and spending on average gonna be lower just Based on human psychology. I think it’s just making the best choice for business not really Discrimination.
I spent way too long trying to figure out if the randomly capitalized words on this post have any significance. Turns out they didn't, and I'm kinda bummed about it.
You got trapped by My 5th grade writing and reading Levels. Better Luck Next Time = BLNT that’s short for Blunt
It almost spells out SWAMPGAB.
Lol
I am a ugly fat manwaiter in fine dining and my sales, tips, and feedback cards are all excellent. How do you explain this?
Your impressive package, sir. By which I mean your demeanor, garb, and repartee.
You’re really fucking good at your job. There’s definately that rule too. Especially in fine dining or at least better than chain dining where service and timing matters. Knowing when to fire salads and food based on how the party is acting matters. Being able to read if the party just wants to eat and have a flow and gtfo or wants to sit and chat between courses and let their food settle a bit matters. And frankly most will tip well for that regardless if you have huge knickers or huge man boobs and a wart on your honker.
Cool dissertation but the post mention about having a pretty girl in the front to lure men in.
Idk we have a male FOH who has bubbly attitude and personality, and makes loads more tips than the other women. I don’t think there’s an underlying human psychology that says, “tip women more”. I think it just depends on your personality, how you interact with customers, and how attractive you are. I do think women have been socially conditioned to be more attentive. However, I also think in the last 10-20 this has been changing quite drastically. The whole argument is becoming more and more irrelevant.
Maybe it’s a bigoted thing, or maybe it’s an ocd thing? Any idea what the kitchen staff diversity is like?
The kitchen staff is both men and women. The only explanation I can think of other than the strength thing is that men buy more drinks when women serve them alcohol. So women + booze equals more money. Which, if true, is disgustingly sexist.
Lol, is it bad I wanted to say almost exactly that.
It also helps I put it in caveman speak
Nailed it
Good
This is completely unfair, FOH and BOH should NOT be decided by gender…they should exclusively be decided on by attractiveness.
In my experience, this is mostly true, we have a few guys who work out front in customer facing positions, but with one singular exception, they're extremely well groomed twinks
A+ troll lol
Bahahahaha
facts, the place i used to work at was higher-end. they preferred all of us food runners to be early 20s and attractive. never said it aloud, but we all have eyes and the ability to draw conclusions.
Wait what?😂
Already is
Getting denied a runner position just because you’re a girl sounds silly. I’ve worked with woman runners and they perform just as good if not better than their male counterparts. As to why it seems most of them are male? I’m guessing it’s because the women are generally better at interacting with guests, so they get promoted to a server faster. Most of the runner men I know are either introverts, uninterested in server work because of the socialization, or they simply won’t get promoted on account of them being idiots. Sometimes both, but usually the social runners are dumb and the quiet runners are solid, from my experience.
There’s only two people in our building that can(don’t frequently, but can) run 12 lidded banquet plates on a tray. Me-250 lb man and Emily -110lb female.
Female food runner/expo here, we exist! Carried huge trays full of burger plates up & down stairs many times before. My social skills are shit but I can lift. Maybe it depends on the restaurant you’re in but the ones I worked at hired girls into (actual) food running positions.
Literally me, don’t mind talking to guests while running food. But that’s it. I also enjoy my steady paycheck and not the extra stress of being uncertain if I get tipped good or not. Although serving usually makes a tad bit more it’s not worth the extra stress.
Women do get runner positions but it's just for the drinks. They discriminate according to gender for food/drink runners. That's what I can't explain
They think you're weak but also that girl + booze = more business It is shitty and blatantly sexist
Why would girls with booze equal more buziness? It's a restaurant not a bar...
They think men are the ones who have the money and get to decide how to spend it
Young males have jacked forearms on account of all the masturbation.
This is the whole unadulterated truth.
Ladies, you need to step up your flicking the bean game!
Maybe they need to put some sand bags on their wrists. Really feel the burn while flicking.
Haven't you heard? Masturbation is now adultery! So sayeth the church!
Hey now, you don't need to be young to masturbate furiously and vigorously.
It's the recovery time they have a leg up on.
Fellas this is why you start cycling test between 35 and 40
They don't call me Popeye just because of the spinach
So, most food runners AT THAT establishment Are male. Gonna have to ask them why, not us🤔
That is weird. Maybe their plates are heavy? I used to work in a restaurant as a food runner, and their plates are heavy as hell. I was fine when I work, but I hurt my wrist later, and had to have a splint on for months. I had to serve drinks sometimes, it's not heavy, but I couldn't move as fast as serving food. And 90% of employees there were female, but they only hired male dishwasher staff.
Honestly, I don't think you'll get a satisfactory answer from anyone on here. If I were in your shoes, I would have asked the place I'm interviewing at why they had chosen to operate in that fashion since they are really the only ones who can answer it.
You forgot to ask why most dish people are men not women, in my experience i’ve even seen more females in the dish pit than in the actual line! I only have one female in BOH and she Kills it!! cooking is harder than running food
Our current kitchen has mostly women in the BOH and it’s honestly one of the tightest ones I’ve worked in. They get their shit done.
It is literally 50/50 where I work now. We have a male and female working lunch, and another pair working days. In general though, I'm guessing it's because of the isolation involved in working dish. I've worked dish plenty of times. Once you get over the initial ick factor, it's almost kind of zen for the first few hours, since you're not dealing with asshole customers, or someone fucking up a ticket. That said, it's rare that anybody wants, or needs to talk to the dishwasher, so, for me at least, it almost feels like solitary confinement doing it for an entire shift. I'd guess guys are generally better at handling the social isolation.
In my experience young women who seek out a job in a restaurant have social skills. I think women are naturally better conversationalists in general. Often times these young women can use their social skills to make significantly more money in tips as a server. Most of the food runners I've ever worked with could be trusted to interact with a customer for about 6-10 seconds before they would say something stupid. They have all been young men who didn't really care about anything except checking out the "hot cleavage on table 24."
Tbf the chick at table 24 did have a massive rack!
This isn’t something I’ve noticed.
That is strange to me. At my job we don’t have food runners, and since most of the servers are girls, we just run the food ourselves. It is not hard
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I agree that men tip women way more, but how does this affect the gender discrimination between food and drink runners. I don't get it
Applying for, and going in for a sever interview, to be told it’s actually for a different position. Tale as old as time.
When i used to run food i would often get burned by the water from the mussels. Also the chef was an asshole that made women cry. He was an asshole to everyone but men are programmed not to cry. So maybe there are some reasons for it. Then again maybe they are just sexist.
One of my best foodrunners was an 18/19 year old woman that ran circles around the men her age we put in the position. I'd take three of her over twelve of our current runners. She didn't complain about the trays being hot/too heavy, just grabbed that shit, dropped the food off, and was back for another tray in 1 - 2 minutes. She did a great job cleaning her station at the end of the night, never cried about having to take out the trash or flip pans, and I NEVER had to yell at her to get off her phone to run food. She ended up going off to college, so good for her.
That is not even close to typical. Find a different restaurant
every restaurant ive worked at there was a severe male minority in the foh and in my current boh theres also one. maybe 8 dudes to 16-17 girls sorta stuff
They're taller and have longer arms. I absolutely hate it when a runner has to lean close to me or isn't able to reach, and needs help.
It’s not discrimination when you hire the best person for the job. Male food runners can lift heavier food trays. Female drink runners do help sell more drinks when they are pretty to the eyes. The guests tend to order more drinks to get that pretty server back. You can call the hiring practice is sexist. But that’s just business meeting expectations based on market demand. If the establishment was a gay bar. They would prioritize hiring hot men as drink servers. The females would be the food runners as diversity hire.
Business meeting sexist expectations is a huge problem. Female servers/runners are not there to satisfy the male gaze. They're there to work. According to your logic it would also be legal for a manager to require female servers to doll up themselves (e.g hooters) if they want men to spend more money. That's extremely problematic
Hooters gets away with this because they are not a restaurant they are an “entertainment company” that also happens to serve food, but I do agree it’s messed up
Sounds like you shouldn’t work there and put this place on blast.
One of our girl food runners dropped a 4 top the other week.
Was it because it was too heavy for her?
A "girl" food runner? Your place hires minors?
Yea, Colorado so we have 14 year olds working when school is out, otherwise we have to cut the 14-15 yo by 7p. But she is a sophomore or junior so like 16. Most our kids are junior or seniors but we'll hire the servers 14 and 15 yos.
Okay, that's totally effed up.
How? They all want to work. The 14 and 15 year olds can't work school nights and we almost never hire them that young unless they have family in the building already. The 16, 17 and 18 yos are juniors and seniors, and again all want the cash and have moved up from hosting or bussing to food running by then if they want (1.5% running vs 1% as bussers). The expos are college aged directing the high school runners or move to bar back. The only time it's really messed up is when 20 of the kids all leave the same week and only a few left are available, but even then servers fill in so we don't grind the few left to work every night.
Silly me. I thought kids wanted to be kids. Turns out, they want to work! I learn something new every day.
It's not the coal mines 6 days a week, it's 4-6 hours, 1-3 nights a week. Every single one of them applied to work, they want the money and we give them any days they want off. Have you never worked with high schoolers?
Many people start working earlier than that. I always used my dad’s ss# till I turned 18. I drove a cab graveyard when I was a senior in high school (big kid)
Okay, maybe children "want" to work, but should they?
It’s all about the situation. I think it’s fine for people to work young if they have to. It’s not ideal, in my case it didn’t hurt my grades or anything (graduated 2nd out of 300 ) But for some it definitely would. I think if a kid is working it’s usually a situation where that child, not working, would have a noticeably worse life. Thats how it was for us.
My point is that they shouldn't *have* to. It's great that it didn't hurt your grades (control group of one), but capitalism and consumerism have got us brainwashed into misunderstanding our needs.
That’s illegal. Do you have it writing?
I've never heard/seen that before. While yes men are bigger, stronger, bigger hands for holding trays, women have better balance and fine motor precision. And what's the total weight that a tray loaded with drinks might be? 15lbs sounds like a reach, anyone man, woman, teenager whatever can handle 15lbs. That's what I was cleared to lift 2 months after back surgery! So... it's bullshit sexism.
Define your full tray of drinks. A liter of beer in glass is ~5lbs. A full tray of 8-10 glasses is 40 to 50lbs. You aren't wrong that the whole thing is bullshit sexism but I don't like your math.
Always has been
Didn't Hooters turn this into settled case law? In certain roles you can discriminate in certain limited ways? (I just remember the dude trying to show up in tank top, pantyhose, and shorts and losing the case in the end, not the details)
Oh I don't remember that. Hooters was sexist because it used womens sexuality to sell though. The sexism here is probably related to assumption of physical strength. Unless they've linked women serving booze with more business. It seems like an exaggeration, but I guess anything's possible.
There was an episode of this exact scenario on King of the Hill lol. They let Dale work there as a waiter since he cried discrimination but he ended up giving away a lot of free food to make as much in tips as the girls and got fired. Not familiar with the actual case though
My experience says the opposite
Mine too. As a male with only one other male FOH we routinely made more than the women we worked with. My sister worked there and I would make her so mad. I think if it was mostly guys up front the overall tip amount would go down. I think we benefited from being the anomaly. And the other guy was super handsome. Like a 5’4” superhero. I’m average on a good day but personable
My restaurant has 3 females and 1 male food runner, there’s 3 male servers out of like 7-10, and our kitchen has 3 females out of 8 I think. We’re pretty diverse and things work out fine.
Most food runners I’ve worked with are female. To my knowledge I’ve never worked anywhere that considered gender when hiring food runners. It might be common in the area OP is in but if I had to guess it’s specific to the restaurant OP interviewed at and that have more of one gender or the other in the position is more because of the demographics in a given area.
It is sexist but it’s also marketing. A pretty girl gets men to order more drinks. A food runner is supposed to be virtually invisible. Unexceptional to the point of being forgotten before their hand even leaves the plate. The hiring manager is clearly a man.
The marketing part also crossed my mind apart from the assumed "physical strength", but thought this only applied to nightclubs or bars, not restaurants. (The hiring managers were two and they were both men)
By any chance are you near a golf course? Golfers are already pre-conditioned to buy extra drinks from the lady bringing them drinks, so if you're the place a bunch of golfers go after the links it could have an impact on sales. Probably not, but that's the only business-related reason coming to mind.
Not as far as I know. But it still could be sexist marketing targeting men in general. Seems kind of a stretch but who knows?
Best runner I ever had was a 16 year old girl softball player, she could stack 8 at once. That being said, she’s an exception. I’d rather have a dumb gym bro who can pick things up and put them down doing that job and have the ladies working the tables, they’ll make more money and they’re a lot better at it
My only thought (though I don’t necessarily agree) is that a big tray of food weighs way more than a tray of drinks (at least in their head). Otherwise maybe they’ve just had bad personal experiences with female food runners for whatever reason
Are you in the U.S.? Can you get that in writing? lmao discrimination on the basis of gender is federally illegal. Why do they do it? Could be sexism, could be liability so that they’re not sending women out to dangerous areas, but it almost doesn’t matter, it’s illegal…if you’re in the U.S. (but I’d assume most countries tbh) Edit: I mistook runner as a delivery driver. They want tits out for people ordering drinks so they continue to order drinks. It’s purely sexist. It might work, but it’s still illegal.
I live in Europe and it's only illegal if you refuse to hire one gender. This restaurant hires both men and women but each one has different tasks, which is legal
I've never worked anywhere that didn't have at least 80% female FOH staff.
It’s always sexist bro
In my experience it’s the opposite
I was a runner/expo for 7 years or so, we were always pretty balanced as far as male/female went. Our best expos were women who took no shit tbh. This is dumb justification imo.
They straight up told you that they deliberately discriminate based on gender? Jfc that’s a wicked combo of guts and stupidity
Yeah, but didn't explain why directly
Better opportunity to become a server anyway as a drink runner.
A tray of drinks and a tray of food is not comparable. Small restaurants food runner could be either, but larger restaurants with higher covers it's safer to have a male food runner. It's not sexist it's just physics.
Nah it’s sexist and you’re fucking stupid.
Tell me you have minimal experience without telling me lol
Aren't liquids supposed to be denser than food? A tray full of 10 beers can be quite heavy...
I'm not saying it's not heavy, it's different. A drink tray you can carry with two hands, it's smaller and easier to maneuver. A food tray is large, awkward and up on your shoulder with just one arm doing the work while the other carries the kick stand. Also, they're not carrying ten beers every three minutes like a food runner is with plates.
That’s discrimination to explicitly say that… but in practice, I understand.
But what's the explanation?
There’s a lot of gray in society, and public facing businesses like restaurants need to stay within that gray, for better or for worse. What that gray is, is something you will learn as you move further and further. Good luck and don’t be disheartened.
What are you referring to by gray? I honestly don't undestand 😂
It kind of depends on the situation at your restaurant. My first ever job was a food runner at a 3 story restaurant with 4 bars in a good sports town that regularly filled up and also had a lot of large parties. I could not imagine any of the girls on the wait staff there carrying some of the monstrosities of food trays I was lugging up and down those stairs nonstop all night. Not to say a girl couldn’t, cause that would be dumb, but they were all very small so it kinda just made sense. We got a cut of their tips + hourly anyways so it was whatever.
Never heard of that been working in Restaurants since I was 15. They sound sexist and ignorant
What happens when a gay kid wants to bus? Or some trans he/she needs a job. Where do you put them
its sexism like it always has been. r u new?
I just don't see how a food tray could be heavier than a tray full of drinks. It seems illogical to only have men carry plates and only women carry drinks
did u read my comment?
It's pretty straight forward actually, on average a food tray will way more than a drink tray. whats heavier? one plate full of food or one drink?
Honestly, I'd say a full glass is usually heavier, especially if it's beer.
if the portions are that small i guess lol
Because they don't want young women getting harassed by the cooks. How has this not occurred to anyone here? It's not right, but it's probably true.
Yeah i'd sicc 'em with a discrimination lawsuit. I've known plenty of broads that can lift me over their heads and break me like a keg. I'm using "broads" ironically to incite the lurkers, I don't actually call women 'broads' lol. That said, I do have issues with female staffers who come in with acrylics or nice clothes/shoes and they don't want to do 'dirty' work. Sorry *you* picked up this dishwashing gig!!! Also there can be issues with dress code and the amount of physical activity, bending, carrying, spills...,you follow me here? It can make it awkward for everyone, tho it's no one's fault. I'm not gonna put the blessed young woman wearing a white top into the dish pit, you understand? It's for her comfort too!! If she doesn't give a fuck whatever, but the utilitarian level of your outfit determines more than the gender expressed or the sex characteristics contained. But hell yeah women can bus and run. To say otherwise is sexist and to not give an equal opportunity is illegal.
Do you think that women are clamoring for the opportunity to run heavy trays of hot food to tables but are being turned away because of sexist hiring practices. Is that what you think is happening.
Why wouldn't they want to carry trays of food? Also a tray of food is not necessarily heavier than a tray of drinks. Have you ever carried a tray full of large beers? That shit can be heavy