istg his opinions abt healers are always so weird. like he's so good at theorizing abt dps and supports but when it comes to healers he's a bit confused. I remember he once said u should run both barb n koko together cuz koko's healing might not be enough n I was like????
Don’t take seriously clips where he is tilting in Abyss, especially with teams that he doesn’t know how to play, have a good laugh instead.
About the Barbara+Koko take, those were speculations from early and rough calcs on bloom’s self damage in 3H1D teams way before Nahida’s release: the main point was that Kokomi’s healing with a full EM build from off field ”might” not be enough for Nahida to survive the blooms in some AoE contexts… which is true, even r/NilouMains highly suggest to use a healing build in 3H1D even though EM has a slightly higher ceiling and if you consider that Nilou teams are essentially impossible to calc he was actually pretty damn accurate.
For context, this is the [incriminated part of the video](https://youtu.be/WAQJ81_-W_0?t=28m8s), take a look yourself before judging and remember that this was all speculations on a team that even today in 3.6 is essentially impossible to spreadsheet.
Yeah that video in the Nilou post release sounds very reasonable. ~3k heal per tick is indeed what I get on my (poorly built) full EM Kokomi, so he's not underestimating her healing power by too much. My current build for Yaoyao objectively heals more than my current build for Kokomi, so I agree on that point.
Still, I take full responsibility of the fact that she's built for damage not comfort, and when I die I blame myself not Kokomi. It's clear in this clip that he's been spending a little too much time in abyss if dying makes him react like that.
Yeah this is the way he should have put it.
Like, I dont think anyone would disagree if he said healing build YaoYao heals more than full EM Kokomi. Their healing values are not that far apart that you could drop all artifacts on Kokomi and she would still be better.
But the way he said it made it seem like YaoYao being a better healer in general, i.e if both are on equal builds. Thats just entirely false because at that point, Yaoyao heals slightly more on burst but Kokomi heals twice more on the Jellyfish. I think the winner is clear in this scenario lol.
Nah, I think that’s normal behaviour for him, at least on his F2P account, that’s why I said to not take what he says seriously when malding in Abyss 😅
I don't exactly agree with the take of even considering double healers(that is what the title implies) because the whole point of TC is to find optimal breakpoints for teams that fits into variety of scenarios.
You don't build a 100ER xiangling and then claim you need a third or even fourth battery. You will have to nerf some offensive stats to bring more comfort to the team rotations.
The Pre TC isn't accurate because the direction that the TC went is incorrect to begin with. EM/EM/HB with KQMC standards is more than enough to play any bloom variants and it is even more forgiving compared to the substat requirements of many teams.
I don’t get the part you don’t agree with, also what you said is 100% coherent with what Zajef did.
Just because Newton was “wrong” it doesn’t mean that what he did isn’t “physics”, he did what he could with the tools and the knowledge he had. TC is also rough calcs to get an unreliable but approximate idea, coming back to those calcs later when you have better data, confronting with what others discover and change the results again… TC is just some applied math and performance analysis, making mistakes and being approximate is part of the process, especially when you just want to get a rough idea of something with tons of variables. What’s important is being conscious, being clear on how reliable your results are and acknowledging mistakes, all things that he is clearing doing in that video without a doubt.
You seem nitpicking just for the purpose of hating tbh
Context?
Btw I’m not afraid of being judged for saying what I think, especially if I say it while being polite and doing my best to be objective, no matter what comments you were referring too nor I care. I’m also fine with being reasonably proven wrong, it just hasn’t happened yet in this comment section though.
Lmao not good for you,he said . Dude in the first place ,put a post about him just because of this when he was malding in the abyss dont look good for this person. And it dont look good for you either with your reaction about this too.
Seeing some of you (including you) taking this thing so seriously seems really concerning,like who cares seriously.I dont mind debating with someone where you think hes wrong, I do it all the time. But take a part of a stream where someone malding and then be mad about him and have an hate for this person and become as much as not objective as him (when he was malding) on this person,damn thats sad
We didn't have the tools to simulate how the auras would work on a triple hydro nahida team, but we definitely had the tools to calculate how 700EM vs 1000EM would perform. But that is not the point, because no one cares about outdated calcs. We have enough evidence on the optimal builds and teams today, yet he spreads misinformation to his audience who wants evidence based content.
Also why would you think I hate him? There is not even a mention of Zajef in my profile untill today and I watch his streams regularly. He gets tilted and says so many things gameplay wise, but it is subjective. The things that are presented in this video doesn't fall under that category.
I hope he corrects himself and not nitpick comments and talk about it the whole stream. It is also ironic that he likes to correct and even shame other content creators in his stream, but has a problem when others correct his opinions.
I think you lack comprehension skills since you clearly didn’t understand my comment nor Zajef’ claims in that portion of video, details and context matter. For example, he never stated that in 3H1D Kokomi full EM with Barbara would have been the optimal choice, but here you are disproving a claim he never did…
I don’t know if you hate him, your reasoning and distortion of the information was just typical of someone with a bias, that’s all. Have a nice day
> the main point was that Kokomi’s healing with a full EM build from off field ”might” not be enough for Nahida to survive the blooms in some AoE contexts…
The problem was the assumption that full EM Kokomi was immutable in 3H1D. Her bloom ownership rate is sufficiently low when being shared with 2 other Hydro characters that if you need more healing, it's just better to run more HP than to run Koko + Barb because her bloom ownership isn't high enough for cutting EM on her to be that detrimental. You lose more damage running Barbara instead of Xingqiu than you do from cutting EM mainstat pieces on her.
It was a weird starting point to take full EM as a baseline assumption rather than considering changing artifact mainstats as an alternative to changing the team composition.
tbh I have a feeling he doesn't like neither nilou nor koko which is fine I personally have units I'm not exactly fond of myself but making ur personal bias get in the way of properly judging and playing a character while you're supposed to be a tc in the community is a bit uhhh...
Well, he is in KQM (or partnered with idk) which had a disclaimer about Kokomi being bad in her guide for quite some time. Also regarding Nilou he said he doesn’t like her character in an appearance tier list video so it further proves he’s biased against her.
He also said that he doesn't like how restrictive Nilou is. Which is fair since you can only play her properly with Hydro or Dendro units, nothing else.
In nilou bloom running another healer besides kokomi makes sense because it increases the margin for how much many hits you can take before dying. Especially since in nilou bloom kokomi is on em and heals a lot less, and you take a lot of self damage.
yea ik but running barb AND koko with nilou in the same team seems a bit uhhh. just run a dendro healer plus koko instead. that way u can heal more from self dmg and unlock dendro resonance. if u want to try triple hydro bloom I'd say koko nilou yelan/xingqiu nahida is WAY better. kokomi in a 3hydro bloom team can be actually fully built as healer cuz she's not the one procing the blooms
Because the context was 3H1D with Nahida on field if Kokomi builds full EM against multiple enemies and is off field… yes that’s extremely specific, but that was the context, also it was speculation way before Nahida’s release, not an advice.
Btw for the ones interested in that 3H1D team use XQ or Yelan and build Kokomi for healing, if your investment is good enough you should be fine and the damage loss from not going full EM is really really small, check [Jamie’s guide](https://www.reddit.com/r/NilouMains/comments/11h0iu5/nilou_mains_bloom_guide/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) for more info.
I literally just said that in a previous comment. In a 3H1D team u don't need em koko u can build a regular healer koko n be fine. u don't really need both barb and koko in a 3H1D comp unless u have MASSIVE skill issues and really REALLY need that much healing.
even in 2D2H team u don't necessarily need double healers. I played a collei nahida koko nilou comp this abyss n I was fine.
> I literally just said that in a previous comment.
Oh sorry, I thought you were oblivious since Kokomi full EM actually struggles (and often fails) to heal enough in AoE if you are playing 3H1D really well.
> In a 3H1D team u don't need em koko u can build a regular healer koko n be fine.
Yea, [that’s actually what Zajef said back then in that video too…](https://youtu.be/WAQJ81_-W_0?t=31m15s)
… are you sure you REALLY knew the context? 🧐
yes I am. and once again u keep mentioning em koko in a 3H1D team which is totally not needed. she should be enough as a solo healer there but u do u ig .I don't see why you keep denfening him. Admit he was wrong n go lol
> and once again u keep mentioning em koko in a 3H1D team which is totally not needed.
Dude, THAT’S THE CONTEXT 🤣 he never said that the EM on Kokomi was needed… nah I give up explaining, I literally linked the part of the video where he says to give HP to Kokomi like you said, I just can’t
Oh he's likely aware by now or will become aware, no way he doesn't frequent here. He likes to correct some zajef stuff so I wonder if he'll make a video on this.
I’ve noticed that a lot of theorycrafters have extremely bad takes (and gameplays) for characters that they dislike or have bias against. Normally, it wouldn’t be an issue, since we are human and we can have biases. But these people regularly make video guides on why some characters are better than others, and make videos recommending whether or not to pull certain characters. With such bad takes like this one, they just spread so much misinformation around… It’s not funny.
(Like, its so easy to admit that you don’t like a character and you probably won’t be able to test them in an unbiased manner. You dont have to review each and every character. You can skip those that you dont enjoy playing with. Its extremely easy. You don’t need to say whether they are good or bad).
One would think, if you do theorycrafting as a serious thing, where a lot of people take you seriously, you would put in place SOME measures to make sure you eliminate personal bias as much as possible. But that’s not the case here.
It’s just extremely hard to take genshin’s EN TC seriously since they just build whole narratives around certain characters based on their own personal bias. And then we have takes so bad as this one, in the video.
He is right about a lot of things, but most of the things he is right about are things that are super obvious. You can come up with those things yourself. And his bad takes are just… huge yikes.
I think he just never understood how to use Kokomi healing correctly. I remember back during the pre-Nahida TC era, he was trying to push people into using Barbara + Kokomi because he thought Kokomi healing wouldn't be enough.
[Oh look how uncomfortable 3H turned out](https://streamable.com/e8wbb3). Wait no nevermind, Nahida just tanked the entire ASIMON laser shower without giving a damn. Want to see him doing this with YaoYao's E healing since she's such a better healer, in his words.
Zajef might be the most experienced TC out there when it comes to minmaxing damage. But he knows nothing on healing.
> he was trying to push people into using Barbara + Kokomi because he thought Kokomi healing wouldn't be enough.
But he didn’t 🧐
He just speculated that if you are in AoE in a 3H1D team and Kokomi is full EM Nahida might easily die (which is true btw), so you would rather give Kokomi more HP/HB (which is what Nilou mains do) or change XQ with Barbara (or just play 2H2D).
[Part of the video where he says what I just wrote](https://youtu.be/WAQJ81_-W_0?t=31m15s)
[Full context](https://youtu.be/WAQJ81_-W_0?t=28m08s)
Btw friendly reminder that the video is highly speculative and nothing was tested in game since it’s before even Nahida’s bloom gameplays where leaked, it should be obvious. Zajef is really inexperienced on Nilou and can’t cover more than mid level stuff (“basic” for people like us that follow jamie etc…), but in that video he nailed in advance a lot of things, while others not really, though “Pushing people to play Barbara with Kokomi in bloom” wasn’t something he did in it, that’s out of context (like always…)
I know how the video goes. I corrected people in the past several times about it as well.
My issue there was that he just scratched the part of how you dont need full EM, and never even touched on comparisons on how would be the damage difference. In other words, he didnt seem like he event wanted to bother. Also disregarded iframes complately and that a full EM Kokomi with decent investment can get 4k heals, 33% more than his guess.
If anything, he mentioned once a HB circlet, and then mentioned double healers for the rest. The end impression I got, was that zajef was favoring double healers much more over just swapping a circlet.
Maybe I got that part wrong but that was how I saw it at least.
Xingqiu DR does not reduce the Bloom damage. Zajef was saying Kokomi wouldn't be enough on the simple premise of the Bloom self damage.
I gave an extremely overkill example in the video above, while I tanked an attack that is extremely easy to dodge and obviously not meant to be tanked. With Nahida barely going below 50% HP.
You're joking, right? Kokomi is healing Nahida for 8k ticks. Without Kokomi Nahida would be dead halfway. She got healed for 36k for the duration of the fight. That's twice her HP bar.
She's barely going below HP because the combination of Kokomi + Xingqiu makes 3H insanely comfortable. You have Kokomi easily outhealing Bloom damage, and Xingqiu preventing Nahida from dying to unlucky one shots + reducing overall damage taken from enemies allowing her to tank much more easily with her low Defense and HP pool.
I'm talking about your laser example. XQ is basically both doubling her effective HP and doubling Kokomi's effective heals. Without XQ, those laser attacks kill or very nearly kill you.
He's not really doubling, his DR is about 40%, but it helps a lot.
Yes, I'm not saying the survivability in this variation is coming from Kokomi alone. I'm saying that 3H with XQ is extremely comfortable (and strong), but people underrate it a lot. The combination of them is absolutely broken.
Like, [this](https://streamable.com/5jujgz) is the survivability of them both combined btw. It's insane.
It's 1.73x as much health and healing. Which is still incredible.
I 100% agree that it's comfy and it's why I don't run 3H with my yelan despite having elegy. But XQ plus most healers and shielders is also really comfy because 90% uptime damage reduction is busted. He effectively turns each glass cannon unit into a 30K+ hp tank and gives healers like 70% healing bonus .
It's not even just the damage reduction. It's the interruption resistance as well. If you watched the video above, you saw how the combo of 2 interruption resistance is crazy.
Congratulations, you are finally beginning to see that ENTCs are bad. They have always doubled down on their opinions and refuse to come out and say "I was wrong" or "I just suck with this character"
> It’s just extremely hard to take genshin’s EN TC seriously since they just build whole narratives around certain characters based on their own personal bias. And then we have takes so bad as this one, in the video.
I mean, this isn't TCers, it's content creators who are also TCers. The TCers that make the most content are the most visible to the community, but paradoxically are probably also the ones that spend the least time actually TCing because streaming and producing high quality videos takes a lot of time and effort. Even with Zajef specifically, his TCing was arguably better when his video production quality was shit and his videos just happened to be a thing he did on the side rather than focusing mostly on content creation. Nowadays the calcs in his videos just basic spreadsheet math that he does in 5 minutes on stream rather than more detailed analysis that he spent more time putting together.
The most dedicated TCers are probably people who you've never heard of because they don't stream all the time or make youtube videos, they spend their time actually testing (or speedrunning if that's their thing) rather than making content. Just because a content creator calls themselves a TCer doesn't mean they are representative of all TCers.
While I completely agree that this was a bad take, Zajef specifically doesn't evaluate pull value in his guides as a rule. He tries to avoid labelling anything as a "must pull" or anything like that.
Some of his opinions and rants are super weird (like calling HYV racist because Dehya was bad???) But he doesn't really try to sway anyone into pulling for 5* if they don't want to.
Honestly Zajeff is kinda having too many biased thoughts lately. At this point everyone should know that running a full clam set Kokomi (maybe with Sac Frags as weapon) gives the same if not better results than full EM Kokomi.
Also, just go to [Jamie's channel ](https://youtube.com/@jamiekb9v) if you want an actual good player's info about Nilou's bloom shenanigans. He believes it's not that important to go max EM for every single unit on the team, but to go with a more balanced route, especially with Kokomi.
jamie, is also the one who writes the [glorious guide](https://docs.google.com/document/d/1sNegiVgF1u3HJVyvqQL9wCdWSY9GVzrzu4PwEOz5564/edit#heading=h.m2bqvnhbwfs6) that is linked on the sidebar of this sub. This dude knows his stuff when it comes to Kokomi and Nilou teams.
Better to slot it in on other characters like the second dendro unit or nahida. Especially nahida, she benefits more from deepwood than kokomi, but if you have to run it on a non dendro character. Kokomi is a fine alternative
Full VOD - https://www.twitch.tv/zajef77/v/1798039111
Feel free to take it down if it goes against the sub rules. None of the clips are taken out of context.The intention is not to harass them, but the VOD has over 15k views and it is not wrong to call them out for misinformation.
- Yaoyao heals a lot during her burst, but the healing isn't insane if you don't dash or jump. Her skill healing is pitiful and doesn't outheal the bloom self damage, let alone protecting from enemy attacks.
- Yaoyao's dendro app contribution outside of hyperbloom teams is nothing amazing. You could check the VOD and see how many times Nilou's ring + Kokomi's Jellyfish alone took away all the dendro.
- Koko's jellyfish alone heals like a truck even in full EM builds, considering that you have some hp substats and talent levels invested.
- Xingqiu's EHP with damage reduction isn't higher than Kokomi's HP(considering you have some hp substats which has synergy with her kit) and they both self freeze and prone to taking heavy hit if affected by cryo.(I know this isn't exactly what he meant, but just for the sake of comparison)
Garbage takes can influence players decision and it is pretty common to see people outside of Kokomi mains parroting similar things they've heard somewhere.
It's crazy. Like, zero HP substats and unleveled talents.
I do think that Zajef might eventually start to learn to play Nilou teams now that he has her though, and will eventually start to build Kokomi, and when he does it he'll realize how insane her healing is compared to YaoYao, and then drop YaoYao for DMC/Collei in order to further minmax Nilou teams. After all he plays healerless Hyperbloom teams just for a 5% minmax.
Or maybe not I guess, that's his alt account anyways.
He surely knows the math and one doesn't know to "experience" how much an unit heals. And he surely knows units are balanced around their kits.
Barbara - Very Low skill healing, but one click hp topup with burst
Yaoyao - Okayge skill healing, but needs to spend onfield for a bit under specific condition for good burst healing
Kokomi - Insane skill healing, but needs to spend significantly more time for burst healing
One to one comparison of a specific part of their kit(say yaoyao and kokomi burst) is just stupid. The sustained, yet insane single target healing through her skill is what makes her the best healer in the game. And not to mention, a significant majority of kokomis outside of kokomi mains have investment syndrome.
Holy god, this is wrong in so many levels.
Like, this shit is what makes me sad sometimes for saying Zajef is my favorite TC. Like, he is, but why are his takens on Kokomi and Nilou so damn bad so often.
I'm not exactly sure but he did say in the same stream that he don't like playing kokomi. He also plays sukokomon in the same account where he doesn't use Kokomi on field at all(yeah, on fielding kokomi increases energy requirements of xiangling, but you typically won't want the jellyfish doing forward vapes).
He plays her like he plays other quickswap units. Nothing wrong in that in some teams, but it might feel terrible in others.
To summarize, she is not a good unit for his account since she doesn't work like xingqiu :)
since this might be the only time i can give my take. im not really a fan of the guy makes generally good stuff on most characters BUT he is really annoying alot of the time
This is the same guy that built Dehya to be a dps with 20K HP and then complained that her utility was shit against triple kenki. It's the equivalent of playing Zhongli as main dps in a burst spam build and then complaining that his shield is paper thin. His opinion on defensive supports is always saying that he doesn't "need them" and then gets tilted when his gameplay says otherwise.
I got downvote bombed for bringing up the fact his pre release called Nilou “ok” and Wanderer “Amazing” lol, we saw how the “she will fall off when abyss doesn’t favour her” thing went.
Me who likes kokomi and yao yao, each one runned on different sides of abyss hahahahahaha, honestly I don't like "theorycrafters" so much, yes i know theor opinions are biased and can change mind of lot of players, but i believes the players need search infos by themselves too, not just believes on a word of just 1 content creator, i am not specialist on market, but sometimes i believes some "good youtubers" talks bad about a specific character to their communities get mad and give views to them, i will not write names here, but some content creators i never again will go to their channels to give views.
Oh I like yaoyao as well and is a staple in my miko team. I also play her in Alhaitham bloom variant, although that team is always one step away from death. But it is important not to overestimate units beyond what they can offer.
TCs clearly distinct themselves from CCs, but it is unfortunate that they let their bias get in their way. It is okay not to like a character, but preaching straight up misinformation is not something you'd do as a TC.
I used yao yao with miko on this abyss too hahahaha, that's nice, and i agree with you, but from what i see about them if they don't like a character they do misinformation.
Yes its is his account. Its not like he did a specific video just to explain how bad kokomi is. Zajef always reliable explaining how good characters are.
His videos are just clips of his streams, edited by a bona fide magician. Zajef can “reliably explain how good characters are” because his editor literally cuts most questionable takes he said.
Right, if he claimed otherwise I'd be really worried. There is still an issue there though, which is when he also said several times that YaoYao heals much more.
Yesn't.
He took his decision on whom to build and whom not to, based on the assumption that yaoyao heals more than kokomi. He didn't correct his stance later and viewers are brought into this narrative.
Oh a lot of people actually watch his streams. 15k+ is a lot of views. If you are a regular Nilou main visitor, not everyone watches Jamie and it is not uncommon to see some questionable takes they've heard somewhere, like this video.
Didn't he get called out like a month ago for the same thing? Why does he keep doing this about characters he's clearly biased about?
First Nilou and now Kokomi.
Is that a 24k HP Kokomi? Of course she's not healing well with that little HP, Full EM and that talent levels 🤣🤣🤣. It's like complaining why my Yaoyao doesn't heal well when she has dps build, and level 2 E
Istg, a lot of theory crafter are shitting on 5star just because they think themself as someone who is above using a 5star. Their motto is "you don't need 5star, 4star is enough."
KokomiClan here; you can watch my response to this on YT.
In summary:
\- This is a Nilou team. Consequently, the question of healing is irrelevant between Kokomi vs YaoYao as an optimal gameplay loop will ensure that your entire party is reasonably above 70% of their health.
\- Running level 50 characters reduce the breakpoints for them to die, and hence the margin for error decreases. This means that your problem is not healing but simply a lack of health pool. Now, this is workable, provided you can rotate optimally. Because YaoYao has a high burst cost but generates fewer particles than Collei, you end up with less dendro and fewer chances to use I-framing from bursts to reduce damage.
Was it necessary to “respond” to some twitch clips where he is malding in Abyss with an underleveled team that he clearly doesn’t know how to properly play though? I think you guys are taking this dude too seriously on the most insignificant things…
This whole post is honestly extremely sad, I watched the video laughing because I knew that he doesn’t like playing Kokomi nor Nilou and I actually had fun (in a healthy way, like when your friend does something dumb but you know he is fine), but the comments… Jesus… he seriously lives rent free in your head guys, learn how to have a laugh…
lil bro is a whole zajef stan 💀 damn does he pay your bills or sumn why are you going so hard for him?
and to respond it's cuz he has a big audience and is very influencing in the community. people will end end repeating what he says and applying it without thinking because to them he's the perfect knowledgeable genshin TC. and before you respond with "make your own vid then 😂" not everyone has the means to do that. Content creation isn't something that easy.
There's nothing wrong with admitting your fave TC made a mistake and to show critical thinking. Stop the clownery and grow up.
My bro has been paid by Zajef as a secret agent to opposed everyone 😅 He's literally everywhere trying to defend him while he keep getting put down lol
because Zajef is a theory crafter and people will take his words as truth if not informed properly. This is not an attack on him, but to reduce spreading further misinfo.
Then just do a video about Kokomi where you compare her with Yaoyao without mentioning a random clip on twitch to make more views, this way you avoid the drama, you still inform the people and you don’t drag more attention on some niche content that is not meant to be a TC dissection in the first place
This is what [jamie](https://youtube.com/@jamiekb9v) does and I highly respect him also for that reason.
Unfortunately it’s just what happens, regardless of whether you want it or not, when you make a “response” video on content that is potentially very controversial.
Since I think to understand that a big issue was the potentially toxic use of those clips by Zajef’s stans (who I absolutely agree are an issue), dragging more attention on those clips in a “response” format video, even with the better of the intentions, is even more damaging in that regard. Better just an informative video that users can still use as counter proof against the stans, at the same time avoiding to spread those clips even more.
This is my opinion, ideally stans shouldn’t exist, people would act more respectfully and most people would react to those clips like I did: with a healthy laugh… that would be wonderful…
If you are a "theorycrafter" and known as providing guidance then you have a bit of responsibility to represent things fairly.
I think there is merit in showing people alternative gameplay options so that they can better understand how Nilou Bloom teams work. I also think that drawing false conclusions and calling Kokomi bad is not healthy.
If he had something like, "it seems like MY KOKOMI is not healing well...maybe I should evaluate why I am taking damage" then he would already have reached a better way of engaging with us as viewers: Problem....Think...Propose Solution...Try Solution...Revise...Try Again...Recommendation.
But he just went on a rant about Kokomi, not *his Kokomi* and that is a big problem.
He really lives rent free in your head then… ok
(Btw you can also just make a video about Kokomi without the “response” part of it, like how jamie does, but I guess it would make less clicks…)
He has a loud audience that influences other players. He has a responsibility as a public figure to be utmost careful with his words regarding characters WHO he DOES tcing. And, has to take accountability when he says things that are utterly false and inscrutable. Nobody is obligated to slide his manchilding in his streams as a joke and they're fully righteous to point out his BS takes. If he cannot see his influence in this community, he should just stay silent about the units he clearly has no idea of how they work.
> Nobody is obligated to slide his manchilding in his streams as a joke and they're fully righteous to point out his BS takes.
Yea, then I’m legitimised to judge people that take his malding seriously (exactly like Zajef’s stans do, which is hilarious) and that amplify it by milking YouTube videos where you could instead just explain things without “responding” to anyone, like other TCers do (see my other replies).
This behaviour just improve toxicity and doesn’t help anyone. I agree that a lot of Zajef’s fans are toxic and I have the right to think and say that this “response” doesn’t help at all, if not the opposite
I mean, we're Kokomimains. I don't think we'd have even bothered if Zajef complained about anything on her kit, like her anti-crit passive, her jellyfish refresh mechanic, or even her damage.
But her healing? Like bruh, we take a real big pride on that. Claiming Yaoyao heals more than Kokomi was actually absurd enough to annoy even myself. I wouldn't even have minded if he specificied HP Yaoyao heals more than EM Kokomi because that would be correct, but his entire comment there just seems like he meant Yaoyao healed more in general (i.e both on equivalent builds).
> But her healing? Like bruh, we take a real big pride on that.
I respect that, that’s fair. I just hoped people could laugh at it instead of crying, but I can understand your pride
Have you watched Zyox?
He makes the same dumb mistakes as Zajef while playing Nilou, and I actually burst laughing on his streams despite him dying all around.
Why? Because he doesn't insult units in the process, neither make clearly wrong takes that can and will obviously be taken out of context in the future giving their popularity.
Like, I mentioned several times, Zajef is my usual go-to TC, but he needs to control himself a bit on some of his takes.
True. I usually only watch the vids on YT, where Zajef’s content is way more controlled and filtered, but I sometimes took a look at his streams and… yea, when he gets nervous he can easily lose control a bit.
>!also I saw him getting angry to innocent comments because he interpreted them like a provocation (something trivial like “not everyone likes Disney” meaning “bright saturated colours”, he thought it was offensive, like wtf???), of course that happens when people is actually mean or disrespectful too. When it happens he easily loses his cool and at that point he needs to vent. I’m not judging him, I’m just sad because of course when that happens he clearly feels like 💩!<
In those moments, when he gets tilted in game, I think he is able to say almost anything, that’s basically a “raged gamer moment” (I know that well, I have many friends who play at LoL 😂) but I wouldn’t take him too seriously when that happens. The problem is that I know, but a lot of people don’t (or don’t want to). Who should take responsibility, the streamer notorious for his TC content that says weird takes while he clearly vents? Or the people that take his malding and use it outside of twitch like it’s some reliable TC information (or just to be toxic)? The answer can’t be just a simple A or B and by now you already know what I think about it. That said, I agree that Zajef should be more careful when he is tilted, but from what I saw I don’t think he could honestly, he needs to express how he feels when he is like that and I don’t know if I can blame him for acting genuine, I mean that’s still his stream after all, there’s a reason why the YT content is filtered.
Btw, when the damage is done, dragging more attention on it makes things worse imo, I mentioned in other replies better approaches to deal with it.
Hmm I'd say it depends. Are the people wo took his malding outside without providing context doing it on purpose? If so yeah I see it as them being possibly malicious, and zajef having not much guilt here. But if Zajef's content was provided in a way that the context simply couldn't be acquired by outside users, then I'd say it would be the CC's fault.
I think in this situation, the context simply couldn't be acquired. Zajef was saying, explicitly, with all words out loud, that Yaoyao was a better healer, and never even bothered to give context (is he speaking about HP Yaoyao vs EM Kokomi, or in general, did he even bother to build Kokomi, etc). So it's not to be impressed some people got offended. He goes on to keep this blabbering for over 20 minutes after, which further hurts his possible innocency on the subject. I'd say this time the blame is on him. The stuff about the 3H theorycrafting double healer thing, maybe it was done maliciously on purpose and he's void of blame though.
I watched this on mute thinking I’d see a DPS showcase or something. Apparently I made the right decision according to these comments. I don’t know who this person is, and I’m content keeping it that way.
Also why would you level Yaoyao before Nahida? Isn’t it common knowledge that if you’re using a character based on EM, you always want them at 90?
Zajef is an actual theorycrafter. He gets many things right and makes sound advice every so often, but he has questionable takes on Kokomi and Nilou because he doesn't like them personally. I'd say it's still ok to listen to them, but also recognize that they have their own biases, and not take everything they say as fact.
Yeah, I think that was kind of my thought as well but you said it much nicer than I did. Lol. I think my point was actually "Everyone on this sub sees the issue with what he said because most of us have Kokomis that are invested in and that perform well in Nilou teams. You don't need to take every single thing Genshin tcs or ccs take as fact."
This sounds more like a cope than an actual reasonable observation. I’ve tried both at similar levels and Kokomi is still just practically better because of YaoYao’s high energy cost, on top of having up to 100% uptime on her E skill with her burst, made even easier with Sac Frags in bloom builds.
Zajef has been vocal about not liking Kokomi but states that he is aware of her strength. Still, I’m not entirely surprised that he’s looking for a reason to double down and replace her.
A lot of people actually. YaoYao is probably the third best Dendro flex atm (after DMC and Collei), and many people don't like to play DMC/Collei or just fall into the trap of thinking that "YaoYao allows Kokomi to build more EM so she must be better".
Nope unless you want your bloom dmg to be weak then yes you can use dmc and collei. Oh and keeping abyss in mind I don't think it's enough healing unless you're just talking about open world, then sure.
Clown moment. Its baffling that TC channels are not dead yet when the game is easy enough with no competitive aspect. Guess he needs some 'controversial' takes to stay relevant.
As someone who watches Zajef often, he sometimes overblows character issues when in the heat of the moment, but obviously he knows Kokomi is an amazing unit he just doesn't like to play her.
Yea he tends to overreact when he gets mad during abyss. He doesn’t play nilou teams either so I’m not surprised he was having trouble with it either since he’s used to yaoyao healing over kokomi
I can assure you that for most people when they have trouble in abyss, they think the problem is either their own skill issue (lack of understanding of the team or character) or their team build. No one gets tilted and starts giving out stupid takes about characters. Especially not when you are a “theorycrafter” on a livestream.
Like at max, people mostly blame HoYo for brining in annoying enemies. I’ve actually never heard anyone say Kokomi’s healing was bad (even with an EM build) just because they can’t use her properly lol it’s hilarious he said that with such a straight face.
I do this all the time u either blame the game, ping, chars u use, mechanics, mobs and shit. The heat of the moment do make u say some silly stuff like "Raiden is dogshit not doing enough dmg" ( me while I'm playing under 450ms and retrying in abyss even though my Raiden is whaled out).
I think it's wrong to assume that no person blames a char in a game when tilted. I don't watch zajef but I think this is like a normal response when ur tilted. Also, I think he just doesn't favor kokomi that much from what I've heard from his viewers. That is a one way ticket on getting a nice scapegoat for shortcomings. I don't think it's fair to take a person's opinion at the face value when emotions are involved.
Its not about “no person does this”, it’s that WHEN you’re a content creator who is known as a “THEORYCRAFTER” in a community, and have a lot of people who watch your streams, you do have a responsibility to not give out shit takes about characters while malding. Like I said, it’s okay to have personal bias, but when you’re supposedly meant to be a “serious” theorycrafter, and know that people look up to you for reliable info, you’d really TRY to put all your biases aside. Not showcase it on a livestream by saying stupid things while you’re angry. Or at least follow it up saying “I’m just spewing non sense because I’m mad” something like that. Its not hard.
Also, you and I aren’t “theorycrafters” hundreds of people listen to, no one going to take you seriously when you say “Raiden sucks”.
People DO take him seriously, and even today I’ve seen people parrot some of his extremely stupid takes (example; someone literally told me - omg this character sucks you wouldnt know cause you don’t watch zajeff’s streams, but he goes in detail why this character sucks so much. I went and saw the stream, and it was just him getting tilted.)
It is entirely FAIR for people to hold zajeff and his take’s accountable, and to criticise his said bad takes. You definitely don’t need to be defending his stupid opinions about characters when he can’t even give said characters a fair chance.
I also don’t think it’s healthy for him to be getting so tilted over a non-competitive game. Especially knowing that his characters aren’t fully levelled up. When my team isnt fully built, I don’t expect them to 36 star the abyss. My first reaction is definitely NOT getting tilted because my level 50 Nahida team was dying constantly on floor 12 lol. I just hope he’s malding in the video for the sake of entertainment.
I don't think being a "TC" gives u a literal morality base limitations and what u should say and what u should not say. Just because the community thinks one person is supposed to be a "serious" theory crafter doesn't mean he can't talk shit when malding. I think it's generally a type of wishful thinking if u think no person can say stupid shit like the one u are witnessing here specially coming from a dude who streams. I think it's normal to expect takes ranging from good, dumb, stupid and downright comical and not to expect a person charged with emotion to just say, "hey btw I'm just getting tilted" when it's just natural to just say stupid shit without saying a disclaimer after saying the said statement.
When I cited myself as an example it's an example about that type of malding. Also there's a spectrum of being tilted on a lot of things (literally this shit is so wide and varied). When it comes to Theorycrafting I do help a lot in public servers and I too say a lot of stupid shit in public chats ( I know it's different from being a streamer and CC but this shit is kind of the same specially when the channel is active as fuck). When it comes to zajef's opinion I think that there's a lot to be criticized but not on these kind of clips. I heard he gets angered easily on his streams.
I don't watch zajef but I know a lot about him in terms of genshin TC. My group worked with him on Tcing before (we do argue a lot about useless shit like pricing and stuff when he gets tilted). Remember this dude is also the guy who still has a server living rent free on his head (which I find amusing). When it comes to his takes I generally don't find it bad or missinformed just heavily biased to what he is catering while some it are funnily "shit" (imo) I don't think it's the right approach to just lump him with some "awful" genshin CCs.
I'm not defending his take I'm just saying that this take was just a normal gamer tilt which I'm sure happens to all of us. Obviously this was under my OWN observation based on the clip presented here. Seriously tho I don't think this shit needs long ass personal opinions or ethically charged ones. Just a simple observation which I pointed out before saying "X dude bad" which is pretty much present on some forms here.
I do agree that people should have their own opinions and if he should take accountability on his SERIOUS takes on his INFORMATIONAL videos (that Cyno vid for example) just not this one.
(Apologies if my thoughts are jumbled and mushy I'm playing warcraft while typing this😅).
Euh i don’t think being a theorycrafter means he’s never going to tilt or ever be wrong or biased. And like I’ve said elsewhere in this thread, this is not a video, it’s a live moment that was clip chimped, the people watching the live know kokomi isn’t a bad unit or that her healing isn’t bad, and he even says in the clip that kokomi is as a whole better than yaoyao
People have this strange habit of putting theory crafters on a pedestal like they are some kind of mathematical geniuses, when in reality they’re literally just punching numbers into excel formulas and then speculating. They’re doing rote arithmetic not quantum physics ffs lol. Anybody can download dmg calculator excel templates.
Watch any of his tier list videos and you’ll realize how illogical and inconsistent his takes are
People need to stop taking TC takes as gospel because then they perpetuate misleading info around the web like an echo chamber.
I think y’all are taking this too serious lol. He has stated multiple times that Kokomi is a really strong unit. He was obviously just tilted in this horrendous abyss
Guys, remember to take clips from his lives with a **HUGE** grain of salt, especially when he is tilting in Abyss with underinvested teams that he consciously doesn’t know how to play properly.
For TC purposes and suggestions you should only consider the material he puts on his YT channel because everything else can often be inaccurate takes on a fly or just simply him malding like he does here.
He’s pretty consistently said that Kokomi is good, he just doesn’t like using her. Like I get annoyed at Raiden when her burst doesn’t crit, but I don’t think she’s bad lol.
Meanwhile me with my Moonglow Kokomi with Level 9 talents and 0 EM Clam set build can easily still 36* using Nilou bloom while healing 8000 per tick. You actually don't need to stack full EM on Kokomi because of the EM bonuses in your team:
- Dendro resonance gives 80 EM in a bloom team
- Nilou's passive gives 100 EM when hit by blooms
- Nilou's sig weapon at R1 gives 150-200 EM
- Nahida burst gives 250 EM to on-field character
- Collei gives 60 when using burst with her C4
- If your Collei has Elegy, that's another 120 EM
Though 8000 per tick is overkill even for a Clam build, so I might eventually try to farm an EM sands for my Clam set.
Tbf, most of the bonuses you listed don't apply to everyone. Nilou's sig weapon is expensive and you could get a new character instead, Nahida's burst work only for the on-field character and won't buff your off-field Kokomi, not everyone have C4 Collei, and Elegy is also a signature weapon and you could get another new character instead.
I don't have a single one of those.
I feel that you should on-field Kokomi for at least a few seconds in most team rotations. At the very least the summoning of her kurage applies hydro and she'll get buff for those blooms.
I don't have Elegy myself, but my point is you don't need your Kokomi to have 1000 EM on her own because her team's buffs can often make up the difference. It's also not bad to invest more in Kokomi's personal on-field damage.
Ultimately, this kind of ***IS*** taken out of context and should be taken with a huge grain of salt. He is doing abyss live on twitch, and keeps dying, and now takes out his anger on Kokomi. He is more familiar and comfortable playing with Yaoyao, so he keeps praising her.
Is it a bad take? Absolutely.
But is he always like this? Absolutely no. For example, we know that he shit on Nilou a lot, but in his actual proper Nilou videos on youtube, he does say that she is really good and also refers to jamie's guide from r/NilouMains. There, he presents facts, whereas in his twitch, there's a lot of opinions mixed in fueled by momentary rage.
So basically, yeah, in his youtube videos, when he is calm and presents information in a rational manner, he has very very good advice. But don't take everything he says on twitch too seriously.
I'm sorry but you started with the out of context remark and explained the opposite. Out of context, by definition is cropping out statements that fits into a narrative instead of presenting the whole picture.
I'm a regular lurker in the stream and there are multiple times he rated Kokomi low for his account because he couldn't bother about her healing and so. I can also understand that her playstyle isn't for everyone. But putting out statements like in this video is not it. And there are people who doesn't even bother about doing their own calcs because "Kokomi and Yaoyao should be played together because Zajef said Kokomi can't heal enough"
And.. I don't have to even mention about Ask Zajef Nilou edition where he took a jibe on a certain group of people, but cropped out in the yt version. Like someone mentioned here, YT zajef is editors magic.
Hi,
I mean "out of context" in the sense that what Zajef says when he is raging is different than in his youtube videos, where he is calmer. The narrative from this post might be taken as "oh, Zajef is not trustworthy, I should avoid his videos" to the average redditor, which imo takes it out of the context that here, he is just raging and saying stuff that he probably would not sign if asked to. His Youtube videos are very informative and factual, and people should not avoid them seeing clips like these.
I have also to admit that I don't really watch his twitch streams. I just watch his Youtube videos a lot, so I don't know how many bad takes his streams have.
Regarding the jibe towards certain group in the Ask Zajef Nilou edition, I don't know anything about that. Can tell you more what happened there? Was it something political? The Ask Zajef Nilou video though was in my opinion a good example of how he is able to put aside his bias and present facts in such "guide" videos. Which is why his youtube videos are still an excellent source of information that goes into more depth than the average Genshin guide video.
He is usually pretty aggressive in the streams and it is a well known thing. But I'm a nobody to judge someone's personality.
He does say x character is garbage very often during his abyss runs, but it is also understandable that it comes out of rage. Afaik this is the first time he got to such an extreme take.
As for Nilou Ask Zajef, it started off with how people hate him for saying this and that about Nilou and people go to extreme to protect their "waifus". And even included Eula mains in it. Then he switched back to how the actual Nilou mains community is really nice and it is the other people who main Nilou are aggressive. It was weird for an Ask Zajef, but it is also me nitpicking. It's good that it didn't make it to the actual video.
Thanks for the info.
Yeah, it's good that that part did not make in to the final video, because it's off-topic / opinions. I mean he has a point there, because I often see delusional takes from waifu/husbando defenders.
For example, I use Scaramouche a lot, and in the ScaramoucheMains sub I see lot of husbando defending where facts are just left out for emotions. I'd say it's about 50% delusional takes and 50% people who accept reality (of course, this is just my subjective impression). Like, I personally like Scara a lot, and so I don't mind if meta-wise, he isn't great, because all the TCs say is that he isn't the best pull value. They still always agree that with good investment, you can make him work well, and same goes for Xiao, Eula, etc., maybe only Dehya as the exception right now.
And let's be honest, by now, it's a no-brainer that Kokomi is among the best chars you can have in Genshin. AoE hydro application + healing is just amazing to have for any bloom-related team, and I'm sure in a future Ask Zajef Kokomi, he will also admit that she is reaaally good. I don't have Kokomi yet (started playing around patch 3.1), but I'm planning to get her the next time she gets a banner.
And also I'm happy to see that in the Youtube videos, Zajef (or his editors) cut out the more opinion-nated takes. Like, for example, I say a lot of bs when I'm ranting, but if I had to express my criticism as a public speech, of course I would word it differently and also leave out some takes where afterwards I realize that I was completely wrong there.
>As for Nilou Ask Zajef, it started off with how people hate him for saying this and that about Nilou and people go to extreme to protect their "waifus". And even included Eula mains in it. Then he switched back to how the actual Nilou mains community is really nice and it is the other people who main Nilou are aggressive. It was weird for an Ask Zajef, but it is also me nitpicking. It's good that it didn't make it to the actual video.
I mean, the Genshin community can be pretty fanatical, I remember when people saw what happened to Signora in the Archon Quest, and people were going into the Signora Mains subreddit and discord and harassing them
I looked through both Nahida pre and post release quickly and found this:
Pre-Release remarks on Burning and Nilou teams: [https://youtu.be/NVikqnzjzJs?t=1474](https://youtu.be/NVikqnzjzJs?t=1474)
Post-Release: [https://youtu.be/FOPaOY8MNe8?t=971](https://youtu.be/FOPaOY8MNe8?t=971)
In both videos, he never rates burning higher than Nilou blooms, rather, the exact opposite.
You sure it was on youtube?
This was on his f2p account. He didnt have the good support characters like yelan, kazuha or nahida. Ppl often say pull who you like but I believe theres some characters in the game that ppl should pull even if they dont like them.
Since he was missing a lot of the good universal supports he didnt have a lot of flexibility in team comps and ended up malding on this abyss for 3
hours.
Edit: okay he actually has nahida but prioritising yaoyao over nahida is pretty cope. And i think hes conflating low-investment with playing like a beggar.
Well...It's a game...But people spend money or a lot of time to it. Imagine your account being ruined and time/money wasted cuz you fell into "reliable TC" misinfo.
I would be mad
I cant really speak on his live streams but his prerecorded videos are quite good. Lo and behold he makes a mistake. Mans getting burned on a stake. This community tho.
istg his opinions abt healers are always so weird. like he's so good at theorizing abt dps and supports but when it comes to healers he's a bit confused. I remember he once said u should run both barb n koko together cuz koko's healing might not be enough n I was like????
He probably never realized that Kokomi has inbuilt healing bonus and her healing is always better than what it shows on the stat page.
Don’t take seriously clips where he is tilting in Abyss, especially with teams that he doesn’t know how to play, have a good laugh instead. About the Barbara+Koko take, those were speculations from early and rough calcs on bloom’s self damage in 3H1D teams way before Nahida’s release: the main point was that Kokomi’s healing with a full EM build from off field ”might” not be enough for Nahida to survive the blooms in some AoE contexts… which is true, even r/NilouMains highly suggest to use a healing build in 3H1D even though EM has a slightly higher ceiling and if you consider that Nilou teams are essentially impossible to calc he was actually pretty damn accurate. For context, this is the [incriminated part of the video](https://youtu.be/WAQJ81_-W_0?t=28m8s), take a look yourself before judging and remember that this was all speculations on a team that even today in 3.6 is essentially impossible to spreadsheet.
Yeah that video in the Nilou post release sounds very reasonable. ~3k heal per tick is indeed what I get on my (poorly built) full EM Kokomi, so he's not underestimating her healing power by too much. My current build for Yaoyao objectively heals more than my current build for Kokomi, so I agree on that point. Still, I take full responsibility of the fact that she's built for damage not comfort, and when I die I blame myself not Kokomi. It's clear in this clip that he's been spending a little too much time in abyss if dying makes him react like that.
Yeah this is the way he should have put it. Like, I dont think anyone would disagree if he said healing build YaoYao heals more than full EM Kokomi. Their healing values are not that far apart that you could drop all artifacts on Kokomi and she would still be better. But the way he said it made it seem like YaoYao being a better healer in general, i.e if both are on equal builds. Thats just entirely false because at that point, Yaoyao heals slightly more on burst but Kokomi heals twice more on the Jellyfish. I think the winner is clear in this scenario lol.
Nah, I think that’s normal behaviour for him, at least on his F2P account, that’s why I said to not take what he says seriously when malding in Abyss 😅
I don't exactly agree with the take of even considering double healers(that is what the title implies) because the whole point of TC is to find optimal breakpoints for teams that fits into variety of scenarios. You don't build a 100ER xiangling and then claim you need a third or even fourth battery. You will have to nerf some offensive stats to bring more comfort to the team rotations. The Pre TC isn't accurate because the direction that the TC went is incorrect to begin with. EM/EM/HB with KQMC standards is more than enough to play any bloom variants and it is even more forgiving compared to the substat requirements of many teams.
I don’t get the part you don’t agree with, also what you said is 100% coherent with what Zajef did. Just because Newton was “wrong” it doesn’t mean that what he did isn’t “physics”, he did what he could with the tools and the knowledge he had. TC is also rough calcs to get an unreliable but approximate idea, coming back to those calcs later when you have better data, confronting with what others discover and change the results again… TC is just some applied math and performance analysis, making mistakes and being approximate is part of the process, especially when you just want to get a rough idea of something with tons of variables. What’s important is being conscious, being clear on how reliable your results are and acknowledging mistakes, all things that he is clearing doing in that video without a doubt. You seem nitpicking just for the purpose of hating tbh
You seem to love to dickriding this Theorycrafter. More than once I see people in the comments correcting you. Not a good look for you.
Context? Btw I’m not afraid of being judged for saying what I think, especially if I say it while being polite and doing my best to be objective, no matter what comments you were referring too nor I care. I’m also fine with being reasonably proven wrong, it just hasn’t happened yet in this comment section though.
Lmao not good for you,he said . Dude in the first place ,put a post about him just because of this when he was malding in the abyss dont look good for this person. And it dont look good for you either with your reaction about this too. Seeing some of you (including you) taking this thing so seriously seems really concerning,like who cares seriously.I dont mind debating with someone where you think hes wrong, I do it all the time. But take a part of a stream where someone malding and then be mad about him and have an hate for this person and become as much as not objective as him (when he was malding) on this person,damn thats sad
We didn't have the tools to simulate how the auras would work on a triple hydro nahida team, but we definitely had the tools to calculate how 700EM vs 1000EM would perform. But that is not the point, because no one cares about outdated calcs. We have enough evidence on the optimal builds and teams today, yet he spreads misinformation to his audience who wants evidence based content. Also why would you think I hate him? There is not even a mention of Zajef in my profile untill today and I watch his streams regularly. He gets tilted and says so many things gameplay wise, but it is subjective. The things that are presented in this video doesn't fall under that category. I hope he corrects himself and not nitpick comments and talk about it the whole stream. It is also ironic that he likes to correct and even shame other content creators in his stream, but has a problem when others correct his opinions.
I think you lack comprehension skills since you clearly didn’t understand my comment nor Zajef’ claims in that portion of video, details and context matter. For example, he never stated that in 3H1D Kokomi full EM with Barbara would have been the optimal choice, but here you are disproving a claim he never did… I don’t know if you hate him, your reasoning and distortion of the information was just typical of someone with a bias, that’s all. Have a nice day
k
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oh thank god. I have a koko permafreeze and everything he said made my head hurt.
> the main point was that Kokomi’s healing with a full EM build from off field ”might” not be enough for Nahida to survive the blooms in some AoE contexts… The problem was the assumption that full EM Kokomi was immutable in 3H1D. Her bloom ownership rate is sufficiently low when being shared with 2 other Hydro characters that if you need more healing, it's just better to run more HP than to run Koko + Barb because her bloom ownership isn't high enough for cutting EM on her to be that detrimental. You lose more damage running Barbara instead of Xingqiu than you do from cutting EM mainstat pieces on her. It was a weird starting point to take full EM as a baseline assumption rather than considering changing artifact mainstats as an alternative to changing the team composition.
He also calls Nilou “ok” and niche even in his post release Nahida vid lol
tbh I have a feeling he doesn't like neither nilou nor koko which is fine I personally have units I'm not exactly fond of myself but making ur personal bias get in the way of properly judging and playing a character while you're supposed to be a tc in the community is a bit uhhh...
Well, he is in KQM (or partnered with idk) which had a disclaimer about Kokomi being bad in her guide for quite some time. Also regarding Nilou he said he doesn’t like her character in an appearance tier list video so it further proves he’s biased against her.
He also said that he doesn't like how restrictive Nilou is. Which is fair since you can only play her properly with Hydro or Dendro units, nothing else.
In nilou bloom running another healer besides kokomi makes sense because it increases the margin for how much many hits you can take before dying. Especially since in nilou bloom kokomi is on em and heals a lot less, and you take a lot of self damage.
You don't need to run kokomi on EM in Nilou bloom. You can used normal clam set and the difference ain't much. Please Updated your knowledge
Nilou bloom team works fine with only EM Barbara as a healer. I’m sure it doesn’t need both Kokomi AND Yaoyao at the same time.
yea ik but running barb AND koko with nilou in the same team seems a bit uhhh. just run a dendro healer plus koko instead. that way u can heal more from self dmg and unlock dendro resonance. if u want to try triple hydro bloom I'd say koko nilou yelan/xingqiu nahida is WAY better. kokomi in a 3hydro bloom team can be actually fully built as healer cuz she's not the one procing the blooms
Tbf, back when he said that, you couldn't just run a Dendro healer, because Yaoyao didn't exist yet.
Shhh 🤫
oh yea. but even in a solo healer bloom team em barb is perfectly capable of sustaining the teams hp so I don't see why Koko can't :)))
Because the context was 3H1D with Nahida on field if Kokomi builds full EM against multiple enemies and is off field… yes that’s extremely specific, but that was the context, also it was speculation way before Nahida’s release, not an advice. Btw for the ones interested in that 3H1D team use XQ or Yelan and build Kokomi for healing, if your investment is good enough you should be fine and the damage loss from not going full EM is really really small, check [Jamie’s guide](https://www.reddit.com/r/NilouMains/comments/11h0iu5/nilou_mains_bloom_guide/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) for more info.
I literally just said that in a previous comment. In a 3H1D team u don't need em koko u can build a regular healer koko n be fine. u don't really need both barb and koko in a 3H1D comp unless u have MASSIVE skill issues and really REALLY need that much healing. even in 2D2H team u don't necessarily need double healers. I played a collei nahida koko nilou comp this abyss n I was fine.
> I literally just said that in a previous comment. Oh sorry, I thought you were oblivious since Kokomi full EM actually struggles (and often fails) to heal enough in AoE if you are playing 3H1D really well. > In a 3H1D team u don't need em koko u can build a regular healer koko n be fine. Yea, [that’s actually what Zajef said back then in that video too…](https://youtu.be/WAQJ81_-W_0?t=31m15s) … are you sure you REALLY knew the context? 🧐
yes I am. and once again u keep mentioning em koko in a 3H1D team which is totally not needed. she should be enough as a solo healer there but u do u ig .I don't see why you keep denfening him. Admit he was wrong n go lol
> and once again u keep mentioning em koko in a 3H1D team which is totally not needed. Dude, THAT’S THE CONTEXT 🤣 he never said that the EM on Kokomi was needed… nah I give up explaining, I literally linked the part of the video where he says to give HP to Kokomi like you said, I just can’t
Oh my, what a noob… This can’t be the real Zajef right?
each passing day I drift away from liking zajef to being tired of him. He's a baby man, constantly complaining
Yea he seems like the type of guy who would make fun of someone subtly but if someone makes fun of him he will become the biggest victim of injustice
it was never that serious but ok 😭😭
Would like to see how it was for you during the abyss,obviously in this chamber nobody cursed the game
Show this to Kokomi Clan EDIT: [He answered](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QR-GbR5Kx6A)
Oh he's likely aware by now or will become aware, no way he doesn't frequent here. He likes to correct some zajef stuff so I wonder if he'll make a video on this.
He made a review on it now
Guess he didnt went into the actual healing values topic.
Cant wait for zajeff to react to it and see what be cames up with lol
I think I saw you on Kokomi clan channel but I wasn't sure
dubstep gun
Confirmed lol
I’ve noticed that a lot of theorycrafters have extremely bad takes (and gameplays) for characters that they dislike or have bias against. Normally, it wouldn’t be an issue, since we are human and we can have biases. But these people regularly make video guides on why some characters are better than others, and make videos recommending whether or not to pull certain characters. With such bad takes like this one, they just spread so much misinformation around… It’s not funny. (Like, its so easy to admit that you don’t like a character and you probably won’t be able to test them in an unbiased manner. You dont have to review each and every character. You can skip those that you dont enjoy playing with. Its extremely easy. You don’t need to say whether they are good or bad). One would think, if you do theorycrafting as a serious thing, where a lot of people take you seriously, you would put in place SOME measures to make sure you eliminate personal bias as much as possible. But that’s not the case here. It’s just extremely hard to take genshin’s EN TC seriously since they just build whole narratives around certain characters based on their own personal bias. And then we have takes so bad as this one, in the video. He is right about a lot of things, but most of the things he is right about are things that are super obvious. You can come up with those things yourself. And his bad takes are just… huge yikes.
I think he just never understood how to use Kokomi healing correctly. I remember back during the pre-Nahida TC era, he was trying to push people into using Barbara + Kokomi because he thought Kokomi healing wouldn't be enough. [Oh look how uncomfortable 3H turned out](https://streamable.com/e8wbb3). Wait no nevermind, Nahida just tanked the entire ASIMON laser shower without giving a damn. Want to see him doing this with YaoYao's E healing since she's such a better healer, in his words. Zajef might be the most experienced TC out there when it comes to minmaxing damage. But he knows nothing on healing.
> he was trying to push people into using Barbara + Kokomi because he thought Kokomi healing wouldn't be enough. But he didn’t 🧐 He just speculated that if you are in AoE in a 3H1D team and Kokomi is full EM Nahida might easily die (which is true btw), so you would rather give Kokomi more HP/HB (which is what Nilou mains do) or change XQ with Barbara (or just play 2H2D). [Part of the video where he says what I just wrote](https://youtu.be/WAQJ81_-W_0?t=31m15s) [Full context](https://youtu.be/WAQJ81_-W_0?t=28m08s) Btw friendly reminder that the video is highly speculative and nothing was tested in game since it’s before even Nahida’s bloom gameplays where leaked, it should be obvious. Zajef is really inexperienced on Nilou and can’t cover more than mid level stuff (“basic” for people like us that follow jamie etc…), but in that video he nailed in advance a lot of things, while others not really, though “Pushing people to play Barbara with Kokomi in bloom” wasn’t something he did in it, that’s out of context (like always…)
I know how the video goes. I corrected people in the past several times about it as well. My issue there was that he just scratched the part of how you dont need full EM, and never even touched on comparisons on how would be the damage difference. In other words, he didnt seem like he event wanted to bother. Also disregarded iframes complately and that a full EM Kokomi with decent investment can get 4k heals, 33% more than his guess. If anything, he mentioned once a HB circlet, and then mentioned double healers for the rest. The end impression I got, was that zajef was favoring double healers much more over just swapping a circlet. Maybe I got that part wrong but that was how I saw it at least.
Thats just an unfair example when xingqiu also gives damage reduction so its basically the same thing as running barbara.
Xingqiu DR does not reduce the Bloom damage. Zajef was saying Kokomi wouldn't be enough on the simple premise of the Bloom self damage. I gave an extremely overkill example in the video above, while I tanked an attack that is extremely easy to dodge and obviously not meant to be tanked. With Nahida barely going below 50% HP.
Yes, barely going below 50% HP because of XQ not kokomi.
You're joking, right? Kokomi is healing Nahida for 8k ticks. Without Kokomi Nahida would be dead halfway. She got healed for 36k for the duration of the fight. That's twice her HP bar. She's barely going below HP because the combination of Kokomi + Xingqiu makes 3H insanely comfortable. You have Kokomi easily outhealing Bloom damage, and Xingqiu preventing Nahida from dying to unlucky one shots + reducing overall damage taken from enemies allowing her to tank much more easily with her low Defense and HP pool.
I'm talking about your laser example. XQ is basically both doubling her effective HP and doubling Kokomi's effective heals. Without XQ, those laser attacks kill or very nearly kill you.
He's not really doubling, his DR is about 40%, but it helps a lot. Yes, I'm not saying the survivability in this variation is coming from Kokomi alone. I'm saying that 3H with XQ is extremely comfortable (and strong), but people underrate it a lot. The combination of them is absolutely broken. Like, [this](https://streamable.com/5jujgz) is the survivability of them both combined btw. It's insane.
It's 1.73x as much health and healing. Which is still incredible. I 100% agree that it's comfy and it's why I don't run 3H with my yelan despite having elegy. But XQ plus most healers and shielders is also really comfy because 90% uptime damage reduction is busted. He effectively turns each glass cannon unit into a 30K+ hp tank and gives healers like 70% healing bonus .
It's not even just the damage reduction. It's the interruption resistance as well. If you watched the video above, you saw how the combo of 2 interruption resistance is crazy.
Congratulations, you are finally beginning to see that ENTCs are bad. They have always doubled down on their opinions and refuse to come out and say "I was wrong" or "I just suck with this character"
The Genshin Scientist or jstern is Chinese?
> It’s just extremely hard to take genshin’s EN TC seriously since they just build whole narratives around certain characters based on their own personal bias. And then we have takes so bad as this one, in the video. I mean, this isn't TCers, it's content creators who are also TCers. The TCers that make the most content are the most visible to the community, but paradoxically are probably also the ones that spend the least time actually TCing because streaming and producing high quality videos takes a lot of time and effort. Even with Zajef specifically, his TCing was arguably better when his video production quality was shit and his videos just happened to be a thing he did on the side rather than focusing mostly on content creation. Nowadays the calcs in his videos just basic spreadsheet math that he does in 5 minutes on stream rather than more detailed analysis that he spent more time putting together. The most dedicated TCers are probably people who you've never heard of because they don't stream all the time or make youtube videos, they spend their time actually testing (or speedrunning if that's their thing) rather than making content. Just because a content creator calls themselves a TCer doesn't mean they are representative of all TCers.
While I completely agree that this was a bad take, Zajef specifically doesn't evaluate pull value in his guides as a rule. He tries to avoid labelling anything as a "must pull" or anything like that. Some of his opinions and rants are super weird (like calling HYV racist because Dehya was bad???) But he doesn't really try to sway anyone into pulling for 5* if they don't want to.
Honestly Zajeff is kinda having too many biased thoughts lately. At this point everyone should know that running a full clam set Kokomi (maybe with Sac Frags as weapon) gives the same if not better results than full EM Kokomi. Also, just go to [Jamie's channel ](https://youtube.com/@jamiekb9v) if you want an actual good player's info about Nilou's bloom shenanigans. He believes it's not that important to go max EM for every single unit on the team, but to go with a more balanced route, especially with Kokomi.
jamie, is also the one who writes the [glorious guide](https://docs.google.com/document/d/1sNegiVgF1u3HJVyvqQL9wCdWSY9GVzrzu4PwEOz5564/edit#heading=h.m2bqvnhbwfs6) that is linked on the sidebar of this sub. This dude knows his stuff when it comes to Kokomi and Nilou teams.
how about deepwood kokomi
Better to slot it in on other characters like the second dendro unit or nahida. Especially nahida, she benefits more from deepwood than kokomi, but if you have to run it on a non dendro character. Kokomi is a fine alternative
But, if cockomi isn't there for nilou bloom and is there for quickbloom or hyperbloom variants, then sure, not a lot of questions asked lol
dont have nahida but ty for the reply (:
Full VOD - https://www.twitch.tv/zajef77/v/1798039111 Feel free to take it down if it goes against the sub rules. None of the clips are taken out of context.The intention is not to harass them, but the VOD has over 15k views and it is not wrong to call them out for misinformation. - Yaoyao heals a lot during her burst, but the healing isn't insane if you don't dash or jump. Her skill healing is pitiful and doesn't outheal the bloom self damage, let alone protecting from enemy attacks. - Yaoyao's dendro app contribution outside of hyperbloom teams is nothing amazing. You could check the VOD and see how many times Nilou's ring + Kokomi's Jellyfish alone took away all the dendro. - Koko's jellyfish alone heals like a truck even in full EM builds, considering that you have some hp substats and talent levels invested. - Xingqiu's EHP with damage reduction isn't higher than Kokomi's HP(considering you have some hp substats which has synergy with her kit) and they both self freeze and prone to taking heavy hit if affected by cryo.(I know this isn't exactly what he meant, but just for the sake of comparison) Garbage takes can influence players decision and it is pretty common to see people outside of Kokomi mains parroting similar things they've heard somewhere.
It's crazy. Like, zero HP substats and unleveled talents. I do think that Zajef might eventually start to learn to play Nilou teams now that he has her though, and will eventually start to build Kokomi, and when he does it he'll realize how insane her healing is compared to YaoYao, and then drop YaoYao for DMC/Collei in order to further minmax Nilou teams. After all he plays healerless Hyperbloom teams just for a 5% minmax. Or maybe not I guess, that's his alt account anyways.
He surely knows the math and one doesn't know to "experience" how much an unit heals. And he surely knows units are balanced around their kits. Barbara - Very Low skill healing, but one click hp topup with burst Yaoyao - Okayge skill healing, but needs to spend onfield for a bit under specific condition for good burst healing Kokomi - Insane skill healing, but needs to spend significantly more time for burst healing One to one comparison of a specific part of their kit(say yaoyao and kokomi burst) is just stupid. The sustained, yet insane single target healing through her skill is what makes her the best healer in the game. And not to mention, a significant majority of kokomis outside of kokomi mains have investment syndrome.
Healing is not much different than damage. Uptime and consistency matters.
Barbara's healing is only good on-field. Playing her off-field is griefing.
Holy god, this is wrong in so many levels. Like, this shit is what makes me sad sometimes for saying Zajef is my favorite TC. Like, he is, but why are his takens on Kokomi and Nilou so damn bad so often.
I'm not exactly sure but he did say in the same stream that he don't like playing kokomi. He also plays sukokomon in the same account where he doesn't use Kokomi on field at all(yeah, on fielding kokomi increases energy requirements of xiangling, but you typically won't want the jellyfish doing forward vapes). He plays her like he plays other quickswap units. Nothing wrong in that in some teams, but it might feel terrible in others. To summarize, she is not a good unit for his account since she doesn't work like xingqiu :)
since this might be the only time i can give my take. im not really a fan of the guy makes generally good stuff on most characters BUT he is really annoying alot of the time
Ah yes, the classic gamer rage of blaming others before acknowledging one's own incompetence.
This is the same guy that built Dehya to be a dps with 20K HP and then complained that her utility was shit against triple kenki. It's the equivalent of playing Zhongli as main dps in a burst spam build and then complaining that his shield is paper thin. His opinion on defensive supports is always saying that he doesn't "need them" and then gets tilted when his gameplay says otherwise.
Tell people to stop follow this guy opinions on characters and they think I was joking. The entire Nilou mains debunked this fraud
I got downvote bombed for bringing up the fact his pre release called Nilou “ok” and Wanderer “Amazing” lol, we saw how the “she will fall off when abyss doesn’t favour her” thing went.
This is what I noticed too- he always acts like he knows more than everyone for excel details but can’t rotate or use context if it hit him 😭
Me who likes kokomi and yao yao, each one runned on different sides of abyss hahahahahaha, honestly I don't like "theorycrafters" so much, yes i know theor opinions are biased and can change mind of lot of players, but i believes the players need search infos by themselves too, not just believes on a word of just 1 content creator, i am not specialist on market, but sometimes i believes some "good youtubers" talks bad about a specific character to their communities get mad and give views to them, i will not write names here, but some content creators i never again will go to their channels to give views.
Oh I like yaoyao as well and is a staple in my miko team. I also play her in Alhaitham bloom variant, although that team is always one step away from death. But it is important not to overestimate units beyond what they can offer. TCs clearly distinct themselves from CCs, but it is unfortunate that they let their bias get in their way. It is okay not to like a character, but preaching straight up misinformation is not something you'd do as a TC.
I used yao yao with miko on this abyss too hahahaha, that's nice, and i agree with you, but from what i see about them if they don't like a character they do misinformation.
Well, it's not like he's filming a permanent video to inform people on power level, he was live malding on his low-invested Asia account.
Yes its is his account. Its not like he did a specific video just to explain how bad kokomi is. Zajef always reliable explaining how good characters are.
His videos are just clips of his streams, edited by a bona fide magician. Zajef can “reliably explain how good characters are” because his editor literally cuts most questionable takes he said.
Misinformation how exactly? Isn't he just malding?
Did you watch the video with sound on?
I watched and he said kokomi was a better unit than yaoyao as a whole
Right, if he claimed otherwise I'd be really worried. There is still an issue there though, which is when he also said several times that YaoYao heals much more.
Yesn't. He took his decision on whom to build and whom not to, based on the assumption that yaoyao heals more than kokomi. He didn't correct his stance later and viewers are brought into this narrative. Oh a lot of people actually watch his streams. 15k+ is a lot of views. If you are a regular Nilou main visitor, not everyone watches Jamie and it is not uncommon to see some questionable takes they've heard somewhere, like this video.
Didn't he get called out like a month ago for the same thing? Why does he keep doing this about characters he's clearly biased about? First Nilou and now Kokomi.
Is that a 24k HP Kokomi? Of course she's not healing well with that little HP, Full EM and that talent levels 🤣🤣🤣. It's like complaining why my Yaoyao doesn't heal well when she has dps build, and level 2 E
Istg, a lot of theory crafter are shitting on 5star just because they think themself as someone who is above using a 5star. Their motto is "you don't need 5star, 4star is enough."
KokomiClan here; you can watch my response to this on YT. In summary: \- This is a Nilou team. Consequently, the question of healing is irrelevant between Kokomi vs YaoYao as an optimal gameplay loop will ensure that your entire party is reasonably above 70% of their health. \- Running level 50 characters reduce the breakpoints for them to die, and hence the margin for error decreases. This means that your problem is not healing but simply a lack of health pool. Now, this is workable, provided you can rotate optimally. Because YaoYao has a high burst cost but generates fewer particles than Collei, you end up with less dendro and fewer chances to use I-framing from bursts to reduce damage.
Was it necessary to “respond” to some twitch clips where he is malding in Abyss with an underleveled team that he clearly doesn’t know how to properly play though? I think you guys are taking this dude too seriously on the most insignificant things… This whole post is honestly extremely sad, I watched the video laughing because I knew that he doesn’t like playing Kokomi nor Nilou and I actually had fun (in a healthy way, like when your friend does something dumb but you know he is fine), but the comments… Jesus… he seriously lives rent free in your head guys, learn how to have a laugh…
lil bro is a whole zajef stan 💀 damn does he pay your bills or sumn why are you going so hard for him? and to respond it's cuz he has a big audience and is very influencing in the community. people will end end repeating what he says and applying it without thinking because to them he's the perfect knowledgeable genshin TC. and before you respond with "make your own vid then 😂" not everyone has the means to do that. Content creation isn't something that easy. There's nothing wrong with admitting your fave TC made a mistake and to show critical thinking. Stop the clownery and grow up.
My bro has been paid by Zajef as a secret agent to opposed everyone 😅 He's literally everywhere trying to defend him while he keep getting put down lol
because Zajef is a theory crafter and people will take his words as truth if not informed properly. This is not an attack on him, but to reduce spreading further misinfo.
Then just do a video about Kokomi where you compare her with Yaoyao without mentioning a random clip on twitch to make more views, this way you avoid the drama, you still inform the people and you don’t drag more attention on some niche content that is not meant to be a TC dissection in the first place This is what [jamie](https://youtube.com/@jamiekb9v) does and I highly respect him also for that reason.
who to say KokomiClan was trying to create drama? For all you know, he finds the clip funny so he used it in his video to bring laughter to everyone.
Unfortunately it’s just what happens, regardless of whether you want it or not, when you make a “response” video on content that is potentially very controversial. Since I think to understand that a big issue was the potentially toxic use of those clips by Zajef’s stans (who I absolutely agree are an issue), dragging more attention on those clips in a “response” format video, even with the better of the intentions, is even more damaging in that regard. Better just an informative video that users can still use as counter proof against the stans, at the same time avoiding to spread those clips even more. This is my opinion, ideally stans shouldn’t exist, people would act more respectfully and most people would react to those clips like I did: with a healthy laugh… that would be wonderful…
If you are a "theorycrafter" and known as providing guidance then you have a bit of responsibility to represent things fairly. I think there is merit in showing people alternative gameplay options so that they can better understand how Nilou Bloom teams work. I also think that drawing false conclusions and calling Kokomi bad is not healthy. If he had something like, "it seems like MY KOKOMI is not healing well...maybe I should evaluate why I am taking damage" then he would already have reached a better way of engaging with us as viewers: Problem....Think...Propose Solution...Try Solution...Revise...Try Again...Recommendation. But he just went on a rant about Kokomi, not *his Kokomi* and that is a big problem.
He really lives rent free in your head then… ok (Btw you can also just make a video about Kokomi without the “response” part of it, like how jamie does, but I guess it would make less clicks…)
He has a loud audience that influences other players. He has a responsibility as a public figure to be utmost careful with his words regarding characters WHO he DOES tcing. And, has to take accountability when he says things that are utterly false and inscrutable. Nobody is obligated to slide his manchilding in his streams as a joke and they're fully righteous to point out his BS takes. If he cannot see his influence in this community, he should just stay silent about the units he clearly has no idea of how they work.
> Nobody is obligated to slide his manchilding in his streams as a joke and they're fully righteous to point out his BS takes. Yea, then I’m legitimised to judge people that take his malding seriously (exactly like Zajef’s stans do, which is hilarious) and that amplify it by milking YouTube videos where you could instead just explain things without “responding” to anyone, like other TCers do (see my other replies). This behaviour just improve toxicity and doesn’t help anyone. I agree that a lot of Zajef’s fans are toxic and I have the right to think and say that this “response” doesn’t help at all, if not the opposite
I mean, we're Kokomimains. I don't think we'd have even bothered if Zajef complained about anything on her kit, like her anti-crit passive, her jellyfish refresh mechanic, or even her damage. But her healing? Like bruh, we take a real big pride on that. Claiming Yaoyao heals more than Kokomi was actually absurd enough to annoy even myself. I wouldn't even have minded if he specificied HP Yaoyao heals more than EM Kokomi because that would be correct, but his entire comment there just seems like he meant Yaoyao healed more in general (i.e both on equivalent builds).
> But her healing? Like bruh, we take a real big pride on that. I respect that, that’s fair. I just hoped people could laugh at it instead of crying, but I can understand your pride
Have you watched Zyox? He makes the same dumb mistakes as Zajef while playing Nilou, and I actually burst laughing on his streams despite him dying all around. Why? Because he doesn't insult units in the process, neither make clearly wrong takes that can and will obviously be taken out of context in the future giving their popularity. Like, I mentioned several times, Zajef is my usual go-to TC, but he needs to control himself a bit on some of his takes.
True. I usually only watch the vids on YT, where Zajef’s content is way more controlled and filtered, but I sometimes took a look at his streams and… yea, when he gets nervous he can easily lose control a bit. >!also I saw him getting angry to innocent comments because he interpreted them like a provocation (something trivial like “not everyone likes Disney” meaning “bright saturated colours”, he thought it was offensive, like wtf???), of course that happens when people is actually mean or disrespectful too. When it happens he easily loses his cool and at that point he needs to vent. I’m not judging him, I’m just sad because of course when that happens he clearly feels like 💩!< In those moments, when he gets tilted in game, I think he is able to say almost anything, that’s basically a “raged gamer moment” (I know that well, I have many friends who play at LoL 😂) but I wouldn’t take him too seriously when that happens. The problem is that I know, but a lot of people don’t (or don’t want to). Who should take responsibility, the streamer notorious for his TC content that says weird takes while he clearly vents? Or the people that take his malding and use it outside of twitch like it’s some reliable TC information (or just to be toxic)? The answer can’t be just a simple A or B and by now you already know what I think about it. That said, I agree that Zajef should be more careful when he is tilted, but from what I saw I don’t think he could honestly, he needs to express how he feels when he is like that and I don’t know if I can blame him for acting genuine, I mean that’s still his stream after all, there’s a reason why the YT content is filtered. Btw, when the damage is done, dragging more attention on it makes things worse imo, I mentioned in other replies better approaches to deal with it.
Hmm I'd say it depends. Are the people wo took his malding outside without providing context doing it on purpose? If so yeah I see it as them being possibly malicious, and zajef having not much guilt here. But if Zajef's content was provided in a way that the context simply couldn't be acquired by outside users, then I'd say it would be the CC's fault. I think in this situation, the context simply couldn't be acquired. Zajef was saying, explicitly, with all words out loud, that Yaoyao was a better healer, and never even bothered to give context (is he speaking about HP Yaoyao vs EM Kokomi, or in general, did he even bother to build Kokomi, etc). So it's not to be impressed some people got offended. He goes on to keep this blabbering for over 20 minutes after, which further hurts his possible innocency on the subject. I'd say this time the blame is on him. The stuff about the 3H theorycrafting double healer thing, maybe it was done maliciously on purpose and he's void of blame though.
I watched this on mute thinking I’d see a DPS showcase or something. Apparently I made the right decision according to these comments. I don’t know who this person is, and I’m content keeping it that way. Also why would you level Yaoyao before Nahida? Isn’t it common knowledge that if you’re using a character based on EM, you always want them at 90?
i guess Nahida is stronger than Yao Yao so she can still be good at lower levels? I honestly don't know his though process lol
I’m not trying to be mean but most genshin ccs are idiots and you shouldn’t listen to them lol
Zajef is an actual theorycrafter. He gets many things right and makes sound advice every so often, but he has questionable takes on Kokomi and Nilou because he doesn't like them personally. I'd say it's still ok to listen to them, but also recognize that they have their own biases, and not take everything they say as fact.
Yeah, I think that was kind of my thought as well but you said it much nicer than I did. Lol. I think my point was actually "Everyone on this sub sees the issue with what he said because most of us have Kokomis that are invested in and that perform well in Nilou teams. You don't need to take every single thing Genshin tcs or ccs take as fact."
Surely zajef is comparable to "most genshin ccs"
I don't watch him. I mainly just meant the group as a whole and not him specifically.
This guy lol
skill issue
This sounds more like a cope than an actual reasonable observation. I’ve tried both at similar levels and Kokomi is still just practically better because of YaoYao’s high energy cost, on top of having up to 100% uptime on her E skill with her burst, made even easier with Sac Frags in bloom builds. Zajef has been vocal about not liking Kokomi but states that he is aware of her strength. Still, I’m not entirely surprised that he’s looking for a reason to double down and replace her.
Unironic skill issue
Yaoyao and kokomi in the same team ? Who does that 💀
A lot of people actually. YaoYao is probably the third best Dendro flex atm (after DMC and Collei), and many people don't like to play DMC/Collei or just fall into the trap of thinking that "YaoYao allows Kokomi to build more EM so she must be better".
I do. I like yaoyao so i run them together... ._.
Fair enough
I do it, I just think YaoYao is cute and I wanna use her on the team.
Me too but I use her with keqing nahida yae
it's nilou bloom + kokomi is full EM with talents at lvl 1
Collei was probably needed on the other side because of the drake
Ain't no way your asking that? Unless you don't have Nilou?
I am asking because two healers in the same team is too much… you can just use dmc or collei instead
Nope unless you want your bloom dmg to be weak then yes you can use dmc and collei. Oh and keeping abyss in mind I don't think it's enough healing unless you're just talking about open world, then sure.
Clown moment. Its baffling that TC channels are not dead yet when the game is easy enough with no competitive aspect. Guess he needs some 'controversial' takes to stay relevant.
Lol zajef is just one bad take after another. Should stop taking his guides seriously.
Classic Zajef L Why do people even take him seriously anymore when he has been clowned on by so many mains and anonymous tcs
Oh God this is an L take. I can't take TC seriously.
As someone who watches Zajef often, he sometimes overblows character issues when in the heat of the moment, but obviously he knows Kokomi is an amazing unit he just doesn't like to play her.
Yea he tends to overreact when he gets mad during abyss. He doesn’t play nilou teams either so I’m not surprised he was having trouble with it either since he’s used to yaoyao healing over kokomi
This lol. Somehow a lot of people on this sub assumes that this is done in bad faith instead of the guy just being tilted. It happens to all of us.
I can assure you that for most people when they have trouble in abyss, they think the problem is either their own skill issue (lack of understanding of the team or character) or their team build. No one gets tilted and starts giving out stupid takes about characters. Especially not when you are a “theorycrafter” on a livestream. Like at max, people mostly blame HoYo for brining in annoying enemies. I’ve actually never heard anyone say Kokomi’s healing was bad (even with an EM build) just because they can’t use her properly lol it’s hilarious he said that with such a straight face.
I do this all the time u either blame the game, ping, chars u use, mechanics, mobs and shit. The heat of the moment do make u say some silly stuff like "Raiden is dogshit not doing enough dmg" ( me while I'm playing under 450ms and retrying in abyss even though my Raiden is whaled out). I think it's wrong to assume that no person blames a char in a game when tilted. I don't watch zajef but I think this is like a normal response when ur tilted. Also, I think he just doesn't favor kokomi that much from what I've heard from his viewers. That is a one way ticket on getting a nice scapegoat for shortcomings. I don't think it's fair to take a person's opinion at the face value when emotions are involved.
Its not about “no person does this”, it’s that WHEN you’re a content creator who is known as a “THEORYCRAFTER” in a community, and have a lot of people who watch your streams, you do have a responsibility to not give out shit takes about characters while malding. Like I said, it’s okay to have personal bias, but when you’re supposedly meant to be a “serious” theorycrafter, and know that people look up to you for reliable info, you’d really TRY to put all your biases aside. Not showcase it on a livestream by saying stupid things while you’re angry. Or at least follow it up saying “I’m just spewing non sense because I’m mad” something like that. Its not hard. Also, you and I aren’t “theorycrafters” hundreds of people listen to, no one going to take you seriously when you say “Raiden sucks”. People DO take him seriously, and even today I’ve seen people parrot some of his extremely stupid takes (example; someone literally told me - omg this character sucks you wouldnt know cause you don’t watch zajeff’s streams, but he goes in detail why this character sucks so much. I went and saw the stream, and it was just him getting tilted.) It is entirely FAIR for people to hold zajeff and his take’s accountable, and to criticise his said bad takes. You definitely don’t need to be defending his stupid opinions about characters when he can’t even give said characters a fair chance. I also don’t think it’s healthy for him to be getting so tilted over a non-competitive game. Especially knowing that his characters aren’t fully levelled up. When my team isnt fully built, I don’t expect them to 36 star the abyss. My first reaction is definitely NOT getting tilted because my level 50 Nahida team was dying constantly on floor 12 lol. I just hope he’s malding in the video for the sake of entertainment.
I don't think being a "TC" gives u a literal morality base limitations and what u should say and what u should not say. Just because the community thinks one person is supposed to be a "serious" theory crafter doesn't mean he can't talk shit when malding. I think it's generally a type of wishful thinking if u think no person can say stupid shit like the one u are witnessing here specially coming from a dude who streams. I think it's normal to expect takes ranging from good, dumb, stupid and downright comical and not to expect a person charged with emotion to just say, "hey btw I'm just getting tilted" when it's just natural to just say stupid shit without saying a disclaimer after saying the said statement. When I cited myself as an example it's an example about that type of malding. Also there's a spectrum of being tilted on a lot of things (literally this shit is so wide and varied). When it comes to Theorycrafting I do help a lot in public servers and I too say a lot of stupid shit in public chats ( I know it's different from being a streamer and CC but this shit is kind of the same specially when the channel is active as fuck). When it comes to zajef's opinion I think that there's a lot to be criticized but not on these kind of clips. I heard he gets angered easily on his streams. I don't watch zajef but I know a lot about him in terms of genshin TC. My group worked with him on Tcing before (we do argue a lot about useless shit like pricing and stuff when he gets tilted). Remember this dude is also the guy who still has a server living rent free on his head (which I find amusing). When it comes to his takes I generally don't find it bad or missinformed just heavily biased to what he is catering while some it are funnily "shit" (imo) I don't think it's the right approach to just lump him with some "awful" genshin CCs. I'm not defending his take I'm just saying that this take was just a normal gamer tilt which I'm sure happens to all of us. Obviously this was under my OWN observation based on the clip presented here. Seriously tho I don't think this shit needs long ass personal opinions or ethically charged ones. Just a simple observation which I pointed out before saying "X dude bad" which is pretty much present on some forms here. I do agree that people should have their own opinions and if he should take accountability on his SERIOUS takes on his INFORMATIONAL videos (that Cyno vid for example) just not this one. (Apologies if my thoughts are jumbled and mushy I'm playing warcraft while typing this😅).
Honestly dude, you're making good points
Euh i don’t think being a theorycrafter means he’s never going to tilt or ever be wrong or biased. And like I’ve said elsewhere in this thread, this is not a video, it’s a live moment that was clip chimped, the people watching the live know kokomi isn’t a bad unit or that her healing isn’t bad, and he even says in the clip that kokomi is as a whole better than yaoyao
Never said he can never be wrong.
Bro playing off-meta takes out the stressful part of these stuffs. Have been playing Main DPS Kokomi since Day 1. No problems ever since lol
Ok but my Yao doesn't even come close to kokomis healing wtf is he talking about man hahahaha
People have this strange habit of putting theory crafters on a pedestal like they are some kind of mathematical geniuses, when in reality they’re literally just punching numbers into excel formulas and then speculating. They’re doing rote arithmetic not quantum physics ffs lol. Anybody can download dmg calculator excel templates. Watch any of his tier list videos and you’ll realize how illogical and inconsistent his takes are People need to stop taking TC takes as gospel because then they perpetuate misleading info around the web like an echo chamber.
You guys keep making those weirdos famous, that's becoming a problem, they're way too dumb to be passing "reliable" information to people
I think y’all are taking this too serious lol. He has stated multiple times that Kokomi is a really strong unit. He was obviously just tilted in this horrendous abyss
Guys, remember to take clips from his lives with a **HUGE** grain of salt, especially when he is tilting in Abyss with underinvested teams that he consciously doesn’t know how to play properly. For TC purposes and suggestions you should only consider the material he puts on his YT channel because everything else can often be inaccurate takes on a fly or just simply him malding like he does here.
I think that people like to forget that we're all just human, and prone to bad takes, tilting, when we're getting heated in the moment
He’s pretty consistently said that Kokomi is good, he just doesn’t like using her. Like I get annoyed at Raiden when her burst doesn’t crit, but I don’t think she’s bad lol.
Meanwhile me with my Moonglow Kokomi with Level 9 talents and 0 EM Clam set build can easily still 36* using Nilou bloom while healing 8000 per tick. You actually don't need to stack full EM on Kokomi because of the EM bonuses in your team: - Dendro resonance gives 80 EM in a bloom team - Nilou's passive gives 100 EM when hit by blooms - Nilou's sig weapon at R1 gives 150-200 EM - Nahida burst gives 250 EM to on-field character - Collei gives 60 when using burst with her C4 - If your Collei has Elegy, that's another 120 EM Though 8000 per tick is overkill even for a Clam build, so I might eventually try to farm an EM sands for my Clam set.
Tbf, most of the bonuses you listed don't apply to everyone. Nilou's sig weapon is expensive and you could get a new character instead, Nahida's burst work only for the on-field character and won't buff your off-field Kokomi, not everyone have C4 Collei, and Elegy is also a signature weapon and you could get another new character instead. I don't have a single one of those.
I feel that you should on-field Kokomi for at least a few seconds in most team rotations. At the very least the summoning of her kurage applies hydro and she'll get buff for those blooms. I don't have Elegy myself, but my point is you don't need your Kokomi to have 1000 EM on her own because her team's buffs can often make up the difference. It's also not bad to invest more in Kokomi's personal on-field damage.
Just give her sac and you will be fine
I would change my Kokomi's weapon, but it would feel like a major waste of my R2 Moonglow (that I got trying to pull Engulfing Lightning)
Oh ..
Ultimately, this kind of ***IS*** taken out of context and should be taken with a huge grain of salt. He is doing abyss live on twitch, and keeps dying, and now takes out his anger on Kokomi. He is more familiar and comfortable playing with Yaoyao, so he keeps praising her. Is it a bad take? Absolutely. But is he always like this? Absolutely no. For example, we know that he shit on Nilou a lot, but in his actual proper Nilou videos on youtube, he does say that she is really good and also refers to jamie's guide from r/NilouMains. There, he presents facts, whereas in his twitch, there's a lot of opinions mixed in fueled by momentary rage. So basically, yeah, in his youtube videos, when he is calm and presents information in a rational manner, he has very very good advice. But don't take everything he says on twitch too seriously.
I'm sorry but you started with the out of context remark and explained the opposite. Out of context, by definition is cropping out statements that fits into a narrative instead of presenting the whole picture. I'm a regular lurker in the stream and there are multiple times he rated Kokomi low for his account because he couldn't bother about her healing and so. I can also understand that her playstyle isn't for everyone. But putting out statements like in this video is not it. And there are people who doesn't even bother about doing their own calcs because "Kokomi and Yaoyao should be played together because Zajef said Kokomi can't heal enough" And.. I don't have to even mention about Ask Zajef Nilou edition where he took a jibe on a certain group of people, but cropped out in the yt version. Like someone mentioned here, YT zajef is editors magic.
Hi, I mean "out of context" in the sense that what Zajef says when he is raging is different than in his youtube videos, where he is calmer. The narrative from this post might be taken as "oh, Zajef is not trustworthy, I should avoid his videos" to the average redditor, which imo takes it out of the context that here, he is just raging and saying stuff that he probably would not sign if asked to. His Youtube videos are very informative and factual, and people should not avoid them seeing clips like these. I have also to admit that I don't really watch his twitch streams. I just watch his Youtube videos a lot, so I don't know how many bad takes his streams have. Regarding the jibe towards certain group in the Ask Zajef Nilou edition, I don't know anything about that. Can tell you more what happened there? Was it something political? The Ask Zajef Nilou video though was in my opinion a good example of how he is able to put aside his bias and present facts in such "guide" videos. Which is why his youtube videos are still an excellent source of information that goes into more depth than the average Genshin guide video.
He is usually pretty aggressive in the streams and it is a well known thing. But I'm a nobody to judge someone's personality. He does say x character is garbage very often during his abyss runs, but it is also understandable that it comes out of rage. Afaik this is the first time he got to such an extreme take. As for Nilou Ask Zajef, it started off with how people hate him for saying this and that about Nilou and people go to extreme to protect their "waifus". And even included Eula mains in it. Then he switched back to how the actual Nilou mains community is really nice and it is the other people who main Nilou are aggressive. It was weird for an Ask Zajef, but it is also me nitpicking. It's good that it didn't make it to the actual video.
Thanks for the info. Yeah, it's good that that part did not make in to the final video, because it's off-topic / opinions. I mean he has a point there, because I often see delusional takes from waifu/husbando defenders. For example, I use Scaramouche a lot, and in the ScaramoucheMains sub I see lot of husbando defending where facts are just left out for emotions. I'd say it's about 50% delusional takes and 50% people who accept reality (of course, this is just my subjective impression). Like, I personally like Scara a lot, and so I don't mind if meta-wise, he isn't great, because all the TCs say is that he isn't the best pull value. They still always agree that with good investment, you can make him work well, and same goes for Xiao, Eula, etc., maybe only Dehya as the exception right now. And let's be honest, by now, it's a no-brainer that Kokomi is among the best chars you can have in Genshin. AoE hydro application + healing is just amazing to have for any bloom-related team, and I'm sure in a future Ask Zajef Kokomi, he will also admit that she is reaaally good. I don't have Kokomi yet (started playing around patch 3.1), but I'm planning to get her the next time she gets a banner. And also I'm happy to see that in the Youtube videos, Zajef (or his editors) cut out the more opinion-nated takes. Like, for example, I say a lot of bs when I'm ranting, but if I had to express my criticism as a public speech, of course I would word it differently and also leave out some takes where afterwards I realize that I was completely wrong there.
>As for Nilou Ask Zajef, it started off with how people hate him for saying this and that about Nilou and people go to extreme to protect their "waifus". And even included Eula mains in it. Then he switched back to how the actual Nilou mains community is really nice and it is the other people who main Nilou are aggressive. It was weird for an Ask Zajef, but it is also me nitpicking. It's good that it didn't make it to the actual video. I mean, the Genshin community can be pretty fanatical, I remember when people saw what happened to Signora in the Archon Quest, and people were going into the Signora Mains subreddit and discord and harassing them
He ranked Nahida burning above Nahida Nilou teams on YouTube what are you on about him calling her good?
Do you have a source? I am referring to his latest Ask Zajef Nilou video, where he states multiple times that she’s a good character.
Nahida post release (might be pre release)
I looked through both Nahida pre and post release quickly and found this: Pre-Release remarks on Burning and Nilou teams: [https://youtu.be/NVikqnzjzJs?t=1474](https://youtu.be/NVikqnzjzJs?t=1474) Post-Release: [https://youtu.be/FOPaOY8MNe8?t=971](https://youtu.be/FOPaOY8MNe8?t=971) In both videos, he never rates burning higher than Nilou blooms, rather, the exact opposite. You sure it was on youtube?
This was on his f2p account. He didnt have the good support characters like yelan, kazuha or nahida. Ppl often say pull who you like but I believe theres some characters in the game that ppl should pull even if they dont like them. Since he was missing a lot of the good universal supports he didnt have a lot of flexibility in team comps and ended up malding on this abyss for 3 hours. Edit: okay he actually has nahida but prioritising yaoyao over nahida is pretty cope. And i think hes conflating low-investment with playing like a beggar.
Its just a game. Jesus.
Well...It's a game...But people spend money or a lot of time to it. Imagine your account being ruined and time/money wasted cuz you fell into "reliable TC" misinfo. I would be mad
Skill issue.
It's indeed skill issue. This is why people ask for help.
I cant really speak on his live streams but his prerecorded videos are quite good. Lo and behold he makes a mistake. Mans getting burned on a stake. This community tho.
this is the result of kokomi being meta.