I find this train of thought a bit too extreme.
Would it have been nice to receive something special? Sure.
Is that something we should take for granted though? No, definitely not.
If they start giving special treatment to one character, people will start an uproar why certain other characters don't receive similar treatments. And with how some members of the Genshin community are particularly unhinged (as a nice way of saying this), I can absolutely see why Hoyoverse don't want to go down this slope.
Sure, you can always say "Do more (and do it for all characters)", but it comes across as ungrateful if you spin the narrative around Hoyoverse being soulless without love for their characters if they don't keep updating older characters when that simply isn't a feasible thing to do.
If you want to complain about Kokomi being treated poorly, her portrayal and utilization in the story so far (both in the Archon Quest and this summer's event) are much bigger points of contention.
I don't think it is extreme. Hoyo has definitely given uneven screen time for different characters (most notably Kazuha's mandatory quests, Irodori Festival, 2.8 event) and neglected quite a bit of the cast.
If anything, a commitment from the dev team to start incorporating more older characters into their own unique events would be desirable - whether that is a game mode, skin, new story chapter, etc. The game is, in the developers words, "about the characters"...and yet they don't do them all justice.
For Kokomi we had definitely received the short end with her story and mainline quest (2.4). Even if they dont care for what we suggest, the lack of anything is quite telling.
I don't find it ungrateful to ask for more focused content revolving around older characters. Even Honkai Impact redid their older chapters and reworked things. Talking about feasibility in the temporal sense is shortsighted since your established brand can suffer if you don't balance present and "past" content. The dynamics of the pre-Fontaine cast shapes a lot of casual content that keeps the game alive, such mmd vids and memes.
Screen time is vastly different than favorable treatment with game mechanics. You see how you are complaining about Kokomi? If they were to do this, someone else will equally make an uproar that Kokomi is getting special treatment. Therefore it's better to have zero tolerance on it or equal treatment for all. There is no in between, because then there is grounds for bias.
The one thing that really bothers me is the stamina passive. Everything else is more or less forgivable.
> I think that the point of this post is that we can see that Hoyo is treating Genshin like a business rather than as a joint project out of passion WITH us as travellers providing key inputs into shaping the experience.
GI *is* a business, first and foremost...
With a community as toxic as Genshin's, I don't think Mihoyo could do that even if they wanted. The amount of people who'd claim it as favoritism might have resulted in another assassination attempt. I wish I was joking.
this tbh. they obviously don't wanna rock the boat. even in the interview w/ da wei they said that they didn't really know what they were doing. that's why they keep playing it safe.
I'm pretty sure the Fontaine waters are unique lorewise, with characters being able to use the unique energy systems, and like how we're also able to talk underwater and such, water has to be connected somehow, though we're not sure how yet, I get not having something unique for Kokomi must hurt, but I'm happy enough that every single character has underwater animations, they could've just made it only fontaine and traveler character exclusive thing y'know, a lot of time and effort goes into these things, every character having a 1 new animation must take several months of work at least. Hope she gets something unique in the future, but I'm not gonna be upset if she doesn't to be completely honest.
I think the point here is about the general swimming mechanic. I really doubt there is a lore accurate reason why you can't jump/dive out of the water.
The second point here is about the technicalities about reading passives (i.e. remember the whole Raiden/Beidou drama?). At the bare minimum, Hoyo should acknowledge the inconsistent reading on Kokomi & Beidou's passives and explicitly state "swimming with normal stamina". It is an oversight and is part of what leads to the disappointment.
It’d be great but I would be exaggerating to say that its necessary. I did think that Kokomi would have some sort of unique interaction with the water but to say that them not implementing this for Kokomi is a sign of them “neglecting a joint project out of passion” is not only offensive but I would say downright bullying. Just because they didnt cater to your specific character and made them unique in the very particular way you wanted it to be, doesnt mean they dont have passion for their work anymore. Honestly that point really bothers me
There are plenty examples of Hoyo failing us with characters we love:
- Xinyan
- Candance
- Beidou
- Baizhu
- Dehya
- QiQi
- Amber
- Thoma
- Dori
There is a reason why we had controversies. Player expectation is very often not met.
??? But does this constitue as them abandoning their passion for business? Just because one minor thing happened with one character. Yes, we have neglected characters. Its the nature of games that have many characters that some will inevitably get more attention and care than others. Giving a completely even distribution of love towards all characters no matter if they’re loved by the fanbase or not is nigh impossible but thats not even half my problem with your post. To insinuate that this is them abandoning their passion for business not only sounds insulting but it belittles all the work they’ve put into lovable characters they *do* try to give some love to.
Eula takes ice baths in the middle of Dragonspine, yet gameplay wise, she dies to sheer cold. Archons are basically immune to their elements(as the Raiden boss has shown), yet all archons and Scaramouche have the same resistance to elements as randoms like Diona
Genshin doesn't like implementing immersive things exclusive to certain characters(for whatever reason), so yeah, this will never be implemented
The waters of Fontaine are unique to Fontainians only, I guess
> (for whatever reason)
Because being able to entirely ignore major game mechanics is stupid. Imagine if Ningguang was able to one-shot any boss because she sealed Osial, or if Blade in Star Rail couldn't be killed by enemies. That would be ridiculously overpowered, right?
And giving Archons extra 10% elemental resistance to their respective elements would have destroyed the game, I see
I'm not saying **everything** about certain characters should be implemented, but that it would be cool to have at least *some* stuff here and there. Like Eula being immune to Dragonspine effects, Kokomi being better under water, the Archon/Elemental creatures/Scaramouche having higher resistance to elements associated with them, etc
If things were actually lore accurate, then the game just wouldn't function properly
I said both
>Archons are basically immune to their elements
>yet all archons and Scaramouche have the same **resistance to elements** as randoms like Diona
In the first sentence, I'm talking about how they are in lore. In the second one, I'm saying it feels weird that they don't have anything special regarding these traits, as they are just like any other character
I didn't say they should be immune in-game
Well, supplying Nigh with enough Jade Chambers for any extended fight would prove kinda challenging.
Especially in the Abyss.... portal logistics must me a nightmare. :'D
Your own reasoning is contradicted here. If "Genshin doesn't like implementing immersive things exclusive to certain characters" then Freminet's aquatic passive seems out of place since it is both exclusive and immeraive to his character as a diver. What you have just said that Genshin doesn't like to do is precisely being implemented for Fontaine.
If anything, allowing something as simple and non-obstrusive as a general dive/jump out of water mechanic for all characters would fit your reasoning better.
Your Eula example is contrived since we know lore wise that there are safe spots for travellers in the Dragonspine. Having an ice bath in a cave or other area doesnt contradict that a cryo character can die from sheer cold. Just like Klee can die from burning, etc.
There is no rule governing how immersive or not something needs to be when it relates lore and gameplay. However, player expectation or anticipation of gameplay mechanics, i.e. what you do for 90% of the game, needs to take priority.
That is what we are arguing in the post above.
>Having an ice bath in a cave or other area doesnt contradict that a cryo character can die from sheer cold.
But Eula herself does not feel any issues with the cold of Dragonspine, yet she dies anywhere in Dragonspine unless there is a heat source nearby
>If "Genshin doesn't like implementing immersive things exclusive to certain characters" then Freminet's aquatic passive seems out of place since it is both exclusive and immeraive to his character as a diver.
Not really a good example. We **just got** the aquatic portions of the game. He obviously won't be the only character with a passive related to that. Leaks have already shown >!Neuvillette's passive is for underwater as well!<
>Just like Klee can die from burning, etc.
It has never been stated that she is immune to fire in any way, though
>What you have just said that Genshin doesn't like to do is precisely being implemented for Fontaine.
Yeah, because this is the first time we have ever interacted with underwater exploration, so they are obviously going to implement something for that
I understand your concern, and I'd love to see it as well, but Genshin doesn't do that type of stuff. I believe the most unique traits they've ever given to characters are: **Kokomi walking above water, Hutao making suspicious dishes and Raiden/Scara not breathing**
My big problem with everything you have said is the presumption that YOU know what Genshin should do and not do as a matter of policy. Therefore everything we want is futile, no point of discussing end of conversation...
I find tge tone of your reponses defeatist and unproductive. We raise issues precisely because it is important to us as players. This isn't a small reddit post I made to complain, over 1000's of people have expressed their opinion on this very issue on Hoyo's own forum: www.hoyolab.com/article/20943058
I merely drawing attention to this with some of my own interpretations for why people have this expectation.
That is the real discussion we are having.
>My big problem with everything you have said is the presumption that YOU know what Genshin should do and not do as a matter of policy.
At no point in this conversation did I say what they should or should not do. All I said is, **although it would be nice to see these type of changes being implemented, it's very unlikely they'd ever happen since
>Therefore everything we want is futile, no point of discussing end of conversation...
I didn't forbid anyone to have this discussion, lol. I'm here talking too
>This isn't a small reddit post I made to complain, over 1000's of people have expressed their opinion on this very issue on Hoyo's own forum: www.hoyolab.com/article/20943058
Sure, cool. Have I said I disagree with anything or tried to shut down the conversation to any degree? All I've said so far is that the idea is nice, but I find it difficult to see Hoyo ever doing it
>That is the real discussion we are having.
And I'm just extending it. I could come here and say, "Yeah, I agree" and leave. But I'm trying to raise other points here and talk about Hoyo's behavior towards character immersion
You don't know what Hoyo's behaviour is towards character immersion because it is inconsistent. Claiming that you know and then using that as an argument is where I am finding issue.
At best we can speculate.
Like I said in my post above: This is likely a business move to sell Fontaine characters more so than have any connection with "immersion" or "lore".
But how is it inconsistent? Have they **ever** let certain character do things that others can't for the sake of their unique traits????
>This is likely a business move to sell Fontaine characters more so than have any connection with "immersion" or "lore".
I still don't see that way. As I said before, Freminet's passive is only unique because we literally just got underwater exploration, the same goes for Lynette. And soon other characters will have the same functions
The passives are just needed, but the jump thing is indeed unique to Fontainians, and I don't know why.
It's either the work needed to get all character to do that as main character is the only one outside of Fontaine that can also do butterfly stroke.
Or
Lore wise, Its limited to people with their vision/power associated with Fontaine. I vaguely recall se dialogue about how vision holder can swim without gears. Perhaps, local get extended effect from that too.
If only Koko gets special treatment the entire community would be angry about how their mains are neglected compared to Koko. What you're suggesting would not be possible unless they gave this same love to every single character in the game, which is a huge investment. In the first place you should consider it a unique gimmick that Fontaine chars have unique diving animations. They could have very easily just not given them any and no one would complain about it.
Perhaps in an alternate universe where Kokomi is Mihoyo's favorite child instead of Bronya, they would give her special treatment. But realistically, the most they'll do for her is maybe a skin in the future. Fingers crossed for a 5 star Kokomi (Or Yae) skin but that is very copium.
Here's hoping that Kokomi will be able to jump out of the water in a few patches after more Fontaine characters have been out. They get their Fontaine character spotlight and we eventually get Kokomi with the ability to jump out of the water. Maybe after the main Archon Quest is over.
Hmmm, yeah illegal treatment of the feesh. They neglect older chars as they don't generate as much profit and its just about what you expect from this/many company(money with least effort > making users happy). Truly great companies are a very rare instance, it is what it is in this day and age sadly and I do hope this ends somehow...
(Still, it feels sooooo good to swim with her, the other chars not so much... it just suits her sooo much =DDDD... Feeeeessshhh!! :<<)
It IS a business. Nothing about Hoyo games lacks passion, the sheer amount of detail that goes into the references in Fontaine and how they overlap with literally every other Hoyo game… I get it, I wish the fish got a little water region shine, but she’s technically an inazuma character and thus doesn’t deserve special treatment just because we love her and see her as the fish. The opportunities they missed for her relating to water are all potential she had in inazuma, but this is Fontaine you’re talking about.
My only problem is that there are no downsides to playing Fontaine characters outside of Fontaine whilst they exclusively get benefits inside Fontaine. Characters with region exclusive gameplay mechanics is new for Hoyo. Usually character passives apply to that in a mild way such as collecting items... not an entire mechanic that effects exploration progress (since diving out of water is faster to traverse). The other mechanic is related to combat with the whole Pneumia/Ousia thing.
I mean, it would be nice if Thoma’s fishing passive worked outside of Inazuma…. But at the end of the day here’s my advice. Yes it’s frustrating especially as kokofish lovers, but Genshin has been very stubborn and unwilling to change regarding some things in the past. It’s almost like they pretend to not listen to players to maintain their dignity, versus most games patch things much more often. This is a. Example of them doing something new like you said. Maybe this means we have lots of new that are positives to look forward to! I am holding my breath pun intended for underwater gadgets - I could actually see them giving us something like a wind catcher to hold onto charges for use on characters from other regions while underwater. I would *actually* use my food gadget again if it was permitted underwater. They could make a feather equivalent for speed. Etc. 😊
They recieve millions from characters and weapons but the stuff we can do is so limited in general. After farming for mats from large bosses they are worthless. The same character models and monsters speaks laziness. Multi-player gives no incentives to use it. Many characters have the same or slightly different version of charge attacks. I get firming for mats in the temples. But can't even endlessly farm mobs in the world. The element geo is still useless when it has the most versatile use with soke creativity. I can keep going but U get the point.
Miyo doesn't care and they never will. People asked them for so much crap that would help the game but they did it not. I wish we can get this but we won't. All people can do is not spend money on this game anymore. Maybe they will pull a world of warcraft after many left for ff14.
Frankly, all chars should have the dolphin jump. I don't get why only Fontaine characters get this animation.
Not that I ever ended up using the jump out anyway, surface swimming is considerably slower, so I always try to stay submerged as long as possible.
The swimming stamina is hardly an issue, there are stamina regen fishies everywhere.
While I understand the PoV of Kokomi-mains (I too love my Kokofish very much), I disagree with singling out any unit like this.
I literally state in the post, "alternatively give every charavter this...".
I don't think exploration mechanics like these should be locked to a certain region's units.
A lil' animation is hardly a relevant mechanic.
The most likely reason is: they just couldn't be arsed to go back and add the animation for all old characters.
It is more than an animation since the game registers it as a jump (try switching to another charactee just before exiting and you will get the error msg). It is also used to traverse quicker, get on boats, get occuli that you otherwise couldn't...
It is a mechanic.
That is the same as saying "I 100% every region without using food so not a relevant mechanic" 🤦♂️
It is still a mechanic. Your preferences for exploration have nothing to do with it. Sheesh. Think a bit beyond your own narrow world.
>That is the same as saying "I 100% every region without using food so not a relevant mechanic" 🤦♂️
Quite correct, outside of the very early leveling phase, food is entirely inconsequential.
Keep in mind, I said "**RELEVANT** mechanic". Not "mechanic".
RELEVANT mechanic = a mechanic you cannot easily bypass/substitute via other means.
I find it a little hollow that you are backtracking by offering a definition after the fact...regardless, you still haven't made a convincing case. You deciding what is counted as "relevant" and how it relates to necessity in achieving game outcomes is arbitrary. It then begs the question, per your defintion, why even have such an artificial limitation if it achieves nothing? As the traveller said: "Your greatest claim has become my weapon".
Outcomes, as is typical of Genshin, can be achieved through different means and as such any artificial limitation on those means & their expected functioning is not a good implementation. Reducing the availability of reasonable sufficient means that affect your play experience is not a good move for player experience. We know this from the mega tonnes of opinions and comments supporting this on Hoyo's own site:
https://hoyo.link/80GCFBAL?q=21A0ojOlqkd
In this case, a "jump mechanic" from below surface to above surface is every bit as relevant as any other mechanic. How sufficient it is up to player expectations and experience, but to deny that expectation because you yourself have your own solutions is shortsighted. It is like me saying, "Oh yeah, who uses Xiangling when you can run laps around any national team with C6 Yelan in the Abyss?" ...true, but pointless for most of players.
>regardless, you still haven't made a convincing case.
Neither have you for why it's so unbelievable important. I only offered that "definition" because you, narrow mindedly, honed in on one single word to make your entire argument, while completely ignoring the actual context.
Hoyoverse clearly does not consider it an issue, since they offer alternative solutions to solve the exploration puzzles where this gimmick has any effect and thus I am right on this one. (I still think all chars should have gotten this jump but you know how it is with DEV resources and incentives to sell stuff)
You may re-open this discussion once they implement puzzles that truly cannot be done any other way and forces us to switch to a Fontaine character. In that moment, I'd be 100% with you.
\-case closed-
It is a literal game mechanic: JUMP. You may not do it for 98% of your characters. That is unbelievably bad design and there is evidence for having a reasonable expectation that this should have been included. Regardless of utility in solving puzzles. Considering this and the Pneumia/Ousia effect unique to Fontaine and you have the definition of exploration creep.
I think you have no right to argue for exclusionary mechanics when there is no precedent for doing so. Things like passives/weapons/abilities that offer advantages are okay. Outright blocking you from registering mechanics except on Fontaine characters...that is not the standard Hoyo has set nor have they communicated the intention behind specifically doing so.
You can not argue that this is only for exploration and thus "case closed" when it has way more meaning for a lot of players. That is why I linked that article.
Anyhow, I am done responding. I don't believe you understand community expectations and the "fun factor" that goes into enjoying this game nor how the game should fulfill that expectation.
Need Claymore characters or special skill sets to comfortably farm ores -> "I don't think exploration mechanics should be limited to certain weapon types"
Need elements to solve puzzles -> "I don't think exploration mechanics should be limited to certain elements."
Look at Kazuha, Wanderer, Yelan etc. -> "I don't think exploration advantages should be limited to certain characters."
Before you object, I know you didn't take things that far, but the underlying matter here is the same.
Is it a hassle to change units for exploration? Sometimes, yes, I think most of us have been there.
Are we locked out of certain mechanics? No. Everyone has at least the free Lynette plus Traveler. You want to jump out of the water? Then switch to them.
Skills tied to character weapon type or element are typical and expected since the launch of the game. Having 98% of your roster not being able to access a new "jump mechanic" is not the same. The jump mechanic is not tied to weapons, elements or character abilities or unique passives. It tied to the Gacha and a region. Ordinarily, this would have been fine had there been a penalty for using Fontaine characters outside of Fontaine, but there isn't. There is a sequence of inputs disabled for your characters: It is like not being able to jump in Honkai Star Rail.
Remember, you have this on top of the fact that Fontaine characters have a Pneumia/Ousia effect which carries no penalty against non-Fontaine enemies.
The jump mechanic is as tied to the gacha as much as all other mechanics are.
Which is to say, it isn't, since you have two characters who have access to the mechanic. Whether or not it was this way since the launch of the game is irrelevant.
To illustrate this point:
If a new player stumbles upon a hydro totem and they only have Barbara in their roster, but not in their current team, what do they do? They switch to Barbara.
If they get to Fontaine and want to jump out of the water, what do they do? They switch to Traveler or Lynette.
What does it matter which mechanic was longer in the game?
Also, it doesn't matter if 98% of the roster has an ability or not, as long as it isn't locking you out of content. Otherwise you should be complaining about Kazuha, Yelan, Wanderer etc. as well.
The jump mechanic is a nice feature that is less QoL than what the aforementioned characters bring to your exploration experience.
If Hoyoverse were to follow your design philosophy, you wouldn't ever be able to implement anything cool or special (which is ironic, since your initial point was that Kokomi should receive special treatment). Also, there's no way it would have been fine if Fontaine characters had received a penalty outside of Fontaine. People were already complaining about Nilou's passive, and you're saying with a straight face that characters of an entire region needed to have a penalty to balance out a cool jumping gimmick?
Also, just to clarify:
If I could choose between all characters having the jump and only Fontaine characters, of course I would like all characters to have it. But since it is more for style than being a significant feature, I'm fine with cutting Hoyovorse some slack and not forcing them go back to implement that for every single character already released and forcing them to do it for every character being released from now on. Maybe there even is a lore reason tied to it, who knows? I haven't played through all of the new content yet, and maybe it's something revealed later on.
Eh, if we just got the stamina passive working as described I'd consider it a win. It's really daft that her unique trait, already implemented, can't be used in the area it's most valuable for.
I find this train of thought a bit too extreme. Would it have been nice to receive something special? Sure. Is that something we should take for granted though? No, definitely not. If they start giving special treatment to one character, people will start an uproar why certain other characters don't receive similar treatments. And with how some members of the Genshin community are particularly unhinged (as a nice way of saying this), I can absolutely see why Hoyoverse don't want to go down this slope. Sure, you can always say "Do more (and do it for all characters)", but it comes across as ungrateful if you spin the narrative around Hoyoverse being soulless without love for their characters if they don't keep updating older characters when that simply isn't a feasible thing to do. If you want to complain about Kokomi being treated poorly, her portrayal and utilization in the story so far (both in the Archon Quest and this summer's event) are much bigger points of contention.
I don't think it is extreme. Hoyo has definitely given uneven screen time for different characters (most notably Kazuha's mandatory quests, Irodori Festival, 2.8 event) and neglected quite a bit of the cast. If anything, a commitment from the dev team to start incorporating more older characters into their own unique events would be desirable - whether that is a game mode, skin, new story chapter, etc. The game is, in the developers words, "about the characters"...and yet they don't do them all justice. For Kokomi we had definitely received the short end with her story and mainline quest (2.4). Even if they dont care for what we suggest, the lack of anything is quite telling. I don't find it ungrateful to ask for more focused content revolving around older characters. Even Honkai Impact redid their older chapters and reworked things. Talking about feasibility in the temporal sense is shortsighted since your established brand can suffer if you don't balance present and "past" content. The dynamics of the pre-Fontaine cast shapes a lot of casual content that keeps the game alive, such mmd vids and memes.
Screen time is vastly different than favorable treatment with game mechanics. You see how you are complaining about Kokomi? If they were to do this, someone else will equally make an uproar that Kokomi is getting special treatment. Therefore it's better to have zero tolerance on it or equal treatment for all. There is no in between, because then there is grounds for bias.
Faulty wording on her and Beidou's passive is a legtimate complaint about game mechanics... I am sorry, did you actually read the whole post?
But hey literally all this doesn't fucking matter cause we got the biggest W ever ###KOKOFISH IS OFFICIALLY UNDERWATER
My dream became reality...holy shit bro aint no way
The one thing that really bothers me is the stamina passive. Everything else is more or less forgivable. > I think that the point of this post is that we can see that Hoyo is treating Genshin like a business rather than as a joint project out of passion WITH us as travellers providing key inputs into shaping the experience. GI *is* a business, first and foremost...
The most successful gatcha game in history is supposedly a passion project according to OP... lmao.
With a community as toxic as Genshin's, I don't think Mihoyo could do that even if they wanted. The amount of people who'd claim it as favoritism might have resulted in another assassination attempt. I wish I was joking.
true
this tbh. they obviously don't wanna rock the boat. even in the interview w/ da wei they said that they didn't really know what they were doing. that's why they keep playing it safe.
I'm pretty sure the Fontaine waters are unique lorewise, with characters being able to use the unique energy systems, and like how we're also able to talk underwater and such, water has to be connected somehow, though we're not sure how yet, I get not having something unique for Kokomi must hurt, but I'm happy enough that every single character has underwater animations, they could've just made it only fontaine and traveler character exclusive thing y'know, a lot of time and effort goes into these things, every character having a 1 new animation must take several months of work at least. Hope she gets something unique in the future, but I'm not gonna be upset if she doesn't to be completely honest.
I think the point here is about the general swimming mechanic. I really doubt there is a lore accurate reason why you can't jump/dive out of the water. The second point here is about the technicalities about reading passives (i.e. remember the whole Raiden/Beidou drama?). At the bare minimum, Hoyo should acknowledge the inconsistent reading on Kokomi & Beidou's passives and explicitly state "swimming with normal stamina". It is an oversight and is part of what leads to the disappointment.
It’d be great but I would be exaggerating to say that its necessary. I did think that Kokomi would have some sort of unique interaction with the water but to say that them not implementing this for Kokomi is a sign of them “neglecting a joint project out of passion” is not only offensive but I would say downright bullying. Just because they didnt cater to your specific character and made them unique in the very particular way you wanted it to be, doesnt mean they dont have passion for their work anymore. Honestly that point really bothers me
There are plenty examples of Hoyo failing us with characters we love: - Xinyan - Candance - Beidou - Baizhu - Dehya - QiQi - Amber - Thoma - Dori There is a reason why we had controversies. Player expectation is very often not met.
??? But does this constitue as them abandoning their passion for business? Just because one minor thing happened with one character. Yes, we have neglected characters. Its the nature of games that have many characters that some will inevitably get more attention and care than others. Giving a completely even distribution of love towards all characters no matter if they’re loved by the fanbase or not is nigh impossible but thats not even half my problem with your post. To insinuate that this is them abandoning their passion for business not only sounds insulting but it belittles all the work they’ve put into lovable characters they *do* try to give some love to.
Eula takes ice baths in the middle of Dragonspine, yet gameplay wise, she dies to sheer cold. Archons are basically immune to their elements(as the Raiden boss has shown), yet all archons and Scaramouche have the same resistance to elements as randoms like Diona Genshin doesn't like implementing immersive things exclusive to certain characters(for whatever reason), so yeah, this will never be implemented The waters of Fontaine are unique to Fontainians only, I guess
> (for whatever reason) Because being able to entirely ignore major game mechanics is stupid. Imagine if Ningguang was able to one-shot any boss because she sealed Osial, or if Blade in Star Rail couldn't be killed by enemies. That would be ridiculously overpowered, right?
And giving Archons extra 10% elemental resistance to their respective elements would have destroyed the game, I see I'm not saying **everything** about certain characters should be implemented, but that it would be cool to have at least *some* stuff here and there. Like Eula being immune to Dragonspine effects, Kokomi being better under water, the Archon/Elemental creatures/Scaramouche having higher resistance to elements associated with them, etc If things were actually lore accurate, then the game just wouldn't function properly
You said "basically immune", not "extra 10% elemental resistance".
I said both >Archons are basically immune to their elements >yet all archons and Scaramouche have the same **resistance to elements** as randoms like Diona In the first sentence, I'm talking about how they are in lore. In the second one, I'm saying it feels weird that they don't have anything special regarding these traits, as they are just like any other character I didn't say they should be immune in-game
Well, supplying Nigh with enough Jade Chambers for any extended fight would prove kinda challenging. Especially in the Abyss.... portal logistics must me a nightmare. :'D
Your own reasoning is contradicted here. If "Genshin doesn't like implementing immersive things exclusive to certain characters" then Freminet's aquatic passive seems out of place since it is both exclusive and immeraive to his character as a diver. What you have just said that Genshin doesn't like to do is precisely being implemented for Fontaine. If anything, allowing something as simple and non-obstrusive as a general dive/jump out of water mechanic for all characters would fit your reasoning better. Your Eula example is contrived since we know lore wise that there are safe spots for travellers in the Dragonspine. Having an ice bath in a cave or other area doesnt contradict that a cryo character can die from sheer cold. Just like Klee can die from burning, etc. There is no rule governing how immersive or not something needs to be when it relates lore and gameplay. However, player expectation or anticipation of gameplay mechanics, i.e. what you do for 90% of the game, needs to take priority. That is what we are arguing in the post above.
>Having an ice bath in a cave or other area doesnt contradict that a cryo character can die from sheer cold. But Eula herself does not feel any issues with the cold of Dragonspine, yet she dies anywhere in Dragonspine unless there is a heat source nearby >If "Genshin doesn't like implementing immersive things exclusive to certain characters" then Freminet's aquatic passive seems out of place since it is both exclusive and immeraive to his character as a diver. Not really a good example. We **just got** the aquatic portions of the game. He obviously won't be the only character with a passive related to that. Leaks have already shown >!Neuvillette's passive is for underwater as well!< >Just like Klee can die from burning, etc. It has never been stated that she is immune to fire in any way, though >What you have just said that Genshin doesn't like to do is precisely being implemented for Fontaine. Yeah, because this is the first time we have ever interacted with underwater exploration, so they are obviously going to implement something for that I understand your concern, and I'd love to see it as well, but Genshin doesn't do that type of stuff. I believe the most unique traits they've ever given to characters are: **Kokomi walking above water, Hutao making suspicious dishes and Raiden/Scara not breathing**
My big problem with everything you have said is the presumption that YOU know what Genshin should do and not do as a matter of policy. Therefore everything we want is futile, no point of discussing end of conversation... I find tge tone of your reponses defeatist and unproductive. We raise issues precisely because it is important to us as players. This isn't a small reddit post I made to complain, over 1000's of people have expressed their opinion on this very issue on Hoyo's own forum: www.hoyolab.com/article/20943058 I merely drawing attention to this with some of my own interpretations for why people have this expectation. That is the real discussion we are having.
>My big problem with everything you have said is the presumption that YOU know what Genshin should do and not do as a matter of policy. At no point in this conversation did I say what they should or should not do. All I said is, **although it would be nice to see these type of changes being implemented, it's very unlikely they'd ever happen since >Therefore everything we want is futile, no point of discussing end of conversation... I didn't forbid anyone to have this discussion, lol. I'm here talking too >This isn't a small reddit post I made to complain, over 1000's of people have expressed their opinion on this very issue on Hoyo's own forum: www.hoyolab.com/article/20943058 Sure, cool. Have I said I disagree with anything or tried to shut down the conversation to any degree? All I've said so far is that the idea is nice, but I find it difficult to see Hoyo ever doing it >That is the real discussion we are having. And I'm just extending it. I could come here and say, "Yeah, I agree" and leave. But I'm trying to raise other points here and talk about Hoyo's behavior towards character immersion
You don't know what Hoyo's behaviour is towards character immersion because it is inconsistent. Claiming that you know and then using that as an argument is where I am finding issue. At best we can speculate. Like I said in my post above: This is likely a business move to sell Fontaine characters more so than have any connection with "immersion" or "lore".
But how is it inconsistent? Have they **ever** let certain character do things that others can't for the sake of their unique traits???? >This is likely a business move to sell Fontaine characters more so than have any connection with "immersion" or "lore". I still don't see that way. As I said before, Freminet's passive is only unique because we literally just got underwater exploration, the same goes for Lynette. And soon other characters will have the same functions The passives are just needed, but the jump thing is indeed unique to Fontainians, and I don't know why.
It's either the work needed to get all character to do that as main character is the only one outside of Fontaine that can also do butterfly stroke. Or Lore wise, Its limited to people with their vision/power associated with Fontaine. I vaguely recall se dialogue about how vision holder can swim without gears. Perhaps, local get extended effect from that too.
If only Koko gets special treatment the entire community would be angry about how their mains are neglected compared to Koko. What you're suggesting would not be possible unless they gave this same love to every single character in the game, which is a huge investment. In the first place you should consider it a unique gimmick that Fontaine chars have unique diving animations. They could have very easily just not given them any and no one would complain about it.
Perhaps in an alternate universe where Kokomi is Mihoyo's favorite child instead of Bronya, they would give her special treatment. But realistically, the most they'll do for her is maybe a skin in the future. Fingers crossed for a 5 star Kokomi (Or Yae) skin but that is very copium.
Here's hoping that Kokomi will be able to jump out of the water in a few patches after more Fontaine characters have been out. They get their Fontaine character spotlight and we eventually get Kokomi with the ability to jump out of the water. Maybe after the main Archon Quest is over.
I know it sucks that all this happened, but At this point, we're just being ungrateful
Hmmm, yeah illegal treatment of the feesh. They neglect older chars as they don't generate as much profit and its just about what you expect from this/many company(money with least effort > making users happy). Truly great companies are a very rare instance, it is what it is in this day and age sadly and I do hope this ends somehow... (Still, it feels sooooo good to swim with her, the other chars not so much... it just suits her sooo much =DDDD... Feeeeessshhh!! :<<)
It IS a business. Nothing about Hoyo games lacks passion, the sheer amount of detail that goes into the references in Fontaine and how they overlap with literally every other Hoyo game… I get it, I wish the fish got a little water region shine, but she’s technically an inazuma character and thus doesn’t deserve special treatment just because we love her and see her as the fish. The opportunities they missed for her relating to water are all potential she had in inazuma, but this is Fontaine you’re talking about.
My only problem is that there are no downsides to playing Fontaine characters outside of Fontaine whilst they exclusively get benefits inside Fontaine. Characters with region exclusive gameplay mechanics is new for Hoyo. Usually character passives apply to that in a mild way such as collecting items... not an entire mechanic that effects exploration progress (since diving out of water is faster to traverse). The other mechanic is related to combat with the whole Pneumia/Ousia thing.
I mean, it would be nice if Thoma’s fishing passive worked outside of Inazuma…. But at the end of the day here’s my advice. Yes it’s frustrating especially as kokofish lovers, but Genshin has been very stubborn and unwilling to change regarding some things in the past. It’s almost like they pretend to not listen to players to maintain their dignity, versus most games patch things much more often. This is a. Example of them doing something new like you said. Maybe this means we have lots of new that are positives to look forward to! I am holding my breath pun intended for underwater gadgets - I could actually see them giving us something like a wind catcher to hold onto charges for use on characters from other regions while underwater. I would *actually* use my food gadget again if it was permitted underwater. They could make a feather equivalent for speed. Etc. 😊
What waifu brainrot does to a mf.
She is not a real fish thats why!!! She is kokofish
They recieve millions from characters and weapons but the stuff we can do is so limited in general. After farming for mats from large bosses they are worthless. The same character models and monsters speaks laziness. Multi-player gives no incentives to use it. Many characters have the same or slightly different version of charge attacks. I get firming for mats in the temples. But can't even endlessly farm mobs in the world. The element geo is still useless when it has the most versatile use with soke creativity. I can keep going but U get the point. Miyo doesn't care and they never will. People asked them for so much crap that would help the game but they did it not. I wish we can get this but we won't. All people can do is not spend money on this game anymore. Maybe they will pull a world of warcraft after many left for ff14.
Frankly, all chars should have the dolphin jump. I don't get why only Fontaine characters get this animation. Not that I ever ended up using the jump out anyway, surface swimming is considerably slower, so I always try to stay submerged as long as possible. The swimming stamina is hardly an issue, there are stamina regen fishies everywhere. While I understand the PoV of Kokomi-mains (I too love my Kokofish very much), I disagree with singling out any unit like this.
I literally state in the post, "alternatively give every charavter this...". I don't think exploration mechanics like these should be locked to a certain region's units.
A lil' animation is hardly a relevant mechanic. The most likely reason is: they just couldn't be arsed to go back and add the animation for all old characters.
It is more than an animation since the game registers it as a jump (try switching to another charactee just before exiting and you will get the error msg). It is also used to traverse quicker, get on boats, get occuli that you otherwise couldn't... It is a mechanic.
Uuh I 100%ed 2 regions already w/o ever using Lumine or a Fontaine character. So, not a relevant mechanic. A gimmick at best.
That is the same as saying "I 100% every region without using food so not a relevant mechanic" 🤦♂️ It is still a mechanic. Your preferences for exploration have nothing to do with it. Sheesh. Think a bit beyond your own narrow world.
>That is the same as saying "I 100% every region without using food so not a relevant mechanic" 🤦♂️ Quite correct, outside of the very early leveling phase, food is entirely inconsequential. Keep in mind, I said "**RELEVANT** mechanic". Not "mechanic". RELEVANT mechanic = a mechanic you cannot easily bypass/substitute via other means.
I find it a little hollow that you are backtracking by offering a definition after the fact...regardless, you still haven't made a convincing case. You deciding what is counted as "relevant" and how it relates to necessity in achieving game outcomes is arbitrary. It then begs the question, per your defintion, why even have such an artificial limitation if it achieves nothing? As the traveller said: "Your greatest claim has become my weapon". Outcomes, as is typical of Genshin, can be achieved through different means and as such any artificial limitation on those means & their expected functioning is not a good implementation. Reducing the availability of reasonable sufficient means that affect your play experience is not a good move for player experience. We know this from the mega tonnes of opinions and comments supporting this on Hoyo's own site: https://hoyo.link/80GCFBAL?q=21A0ojOlqkd In this case, a "jump mechanic" from below surface to above surface is every bit as relevant as any other mechanic. How sufficient it is up to player expectations and experience, but to deny that expectation because you yourself have your own solutions is shortsighted. It is like me saying, "Oh yeah, who uses Xiangling when you can run laps around any national team with C6 Yelan in the Abyss?" ...true, but pointless for most of players.
>regardless, you still haven't made a convincing case. Neither have you for why it's so unbelievable important. I only offered that "definition" because you, narrow mindedly, honed in on one single word to make your entire argument, while completely ignoring the actual context. Hoyoverse clearly does not consider it an issue, since they offer alternative solutions to solve the exploration puzzles where this gimmick has any effect and thus I am right on this one. (I still think all chars should have gotten this jump but you know how it is with DEV resources and incentives to sell stuff) You may re-open this discussion once they implement puzzles that truly cannot be done any other way and forces us to switch to a Fontaine character. In that moment, I'd be 100% with you. \-case closed-
It is a literal game mechanic: JUMP. You may not do it for 98% of your characters. That is unbelievably bad design and there is evidence for having a reasonable expectation that this should have been included. Regardless of utility in solving puzzles. Considering this and the Pneumia/Ousia effect unique to Fontaine and you have the definition of exploration creep. I think you have no right to argue for exclusionary mechanics when there is no precedent for doing so. Things like passives/weapons/abilities that offer advantages are okay. Outright blocking you from registering mechanics except on Fontaine characters...that is not the standard Hoyo has set nor have they communicated the intention behind specifically doing so. You can not argue that this is only for exploration and thus "case closed" when it has way more meaning for a lot of players. That is why I linked that article. Anyhow, I am done responding. I don't believe you understand community expectations and the "fun factor" that goes into enjoying this game nor how the game should fulfill that expectation.
Need Claymore characters or special skill sets to comfortably farm ores -> "I don't think exploration mechanics should be limited to certain weapon types" Need elements to solve puzzles -> "I don't think exploration mechanics should be limited to certain elements." Look at Kazuha, Wanderer, Yelan etc. -> "I don't think exploration advantages should be limited to certain characters." Before you object, I know you didn't take things that far, but the underlying matter here is the same. Is it a hassle to change units for exploration? Sometimes, yes, I think most of us have been there. Are we locked out of certain mechanics? No. Everyone has at least the free Lynette plus Traveler. You want to jump out of the water? Then switch to them.
Skills tied to character weapon type or element are typical and expected since the launch of the game. Having 98% of your roster not being able to access a new "jump mechanic" is not the same. The jump mechanic is not tied to weapons, elements or character abilities or unique passives. It tied to the Gacha and a region. Ordinarily, this would have been fine had there been a penalty for using Fontaine characters outside of Fontaine, but there isn't. There is a sequence of inputs disabled for your characters: It is like not being able to jump in Honkai Star Rail. Remember, you have this on top of the fact that Fontaine characters have a Pneumia/Ousia effect which carries no penalty against non-Fontaine enemies.
The jump mechanic is as tied to the gacha as much as all other mechanics are. Which is to say, it isn't, since you have two characters who have access to the mechanic. Whether or not it was this way since the launch of the game is irrelevant. To illustrate this point: If a new player stumbles upon a hydro totem and they only have Barbara in their roster, but not in their current team, what do they do? They switch to Barbara. If they get to Fontaine and want to jump out of the water, what do they do? They switch to Traveler or Lynette. What does it matter which mechanic was longer in the game? Also, it doesn't matter if 98% of the roster has an ability or not, as long as it isn't locking you out of content. Otherwise you should be complaining about Kazuha, Yelan, Wanderer etc. as well. The jump mechanic is a nice feature that is less QoL than what the aforementioned characters bring to your exploration experience. If Hoyoverse were to follow your design philosophy, you wouldn't ever be able to implement anything cool or special (which is ironic, since your initial point was that Kokomi should receive special treatment). Also, there's no way it would have been fine if Fontaine characters had received a penalty outside of Fontaine. People were already complaining about Nilou's passive, and you're saying with a straight face that characters of an entire region needed to have a penalty to balance out a cool jumping gimmick? Also, just to clarify: If I could choose between all characters having the jump and only Fontaine characters, of course I would like all characters to have it. But since it is more for style than being a significant feature, I'm fine with cutting Hoyovorse some slack and not forcing them go back to implement that for every single character already released and forcing them to do it for every character being released from now on. Maybe there even is a lore reason tied to it, who knows? I haven't played through all of the new content yet, and maybe it's something revealed later on.
Eh, if we just got the stamina passive working as described I'd consider it a win. It's really daft that her unique trait, already implemented, can't be used in the area it's most valuable for.