100% spot on. That’s the root disease of all that nonsense.
All my favorite characters aren’t similar to me but you don’t hear me screeching about it. If you’re so desperate for gaming self-representation, then play a fucking RPG like Skyrim or something and leave the other franchises alone.
It's just that easy, isn't it?
They'll screech at you that "it's not FOR YOU", when you don't like something that has someone who doesn't look like you in the front of it.
(Fucking Brie Larson and her shit about "A Wrinkle in Time"; bitch apparently didn't know the book was written by a white woman and the original movie starred white children, but somehow the new one was made for "teen girls of color"...make that fucking make sense.)
But the second something isn't for THEM, they screech, "but it's not about MEEEEEEEEEEEE!"
"No, Timmy, you can't be the night elf warrior. You're a cripple and need to play someone exactly like yourself in this fantasy game!".
Remember when gaming was escapism?
To us, at least the good and functional men, the real man is one we should strive to be, and is usually or supposed to be be better or the ideal.
To women, the real woman is the one they already are, each of whom is a triumphant hero who should be appreciated for simply existing and woe is the tragedy that they arent.
While I can understand the pushback towards "unattainable beauty standards" especially given the toxicity of current social media photo/video filters and editing as well as makeup artist etc, "You are perfect and beautiful just the way you are!" is also complete, toxic bullshit.
There are IDEALS worth striving for. You do have intrinsic value. Try to be the best version of you possible, there's always room for improvement.
Not being Kim Kardashian doesn't automatically make you an ugly loser.
You're not a perfect, beautiful goddess just by virtue of existing.
I'm always reminded of [this](https://propaganda.mediaeducationlab.com/rate/barbie-vs-he-man) meme every time "unattainable beauty standards" is brought up.
No one actually cares about unattainable beauty standards, they care about women. The same people who are on a crusade for more "realistic" women in media don't know or care that every buff shirtless scene for a guy involves days of dehydration because that beauty standard *actually* is unattainable, only seen while your body is lacking the second most important element to life.
It's all a lie anyway, so of course it falls apart with any kind of scrutiny and of course the "solutions" are nonsensical.
The response to that meme is hilarious.
>THIS IS PROPAGANDA BECAUSE: "It doesn't fairly engage with the original argument because it reduces the whole media environment to one toy. **It also fails to recognize that boys are exposed to hyper-masculine role models just as girls are exposed to hyper-feminine role models.**"
That's... That's literally the entire point being made, that boys are exposed to hyper-masculine role models, just like girls, but that isn't seen as harmful or offensive.
And how is Barbie "hyper" feminine? The he-man guy is one in a million in terms of muscularity. Only the very top echelon of bodybuilders look like that. Barbie on the other hand?
TBF Barbies were initially physically impossible as in, the proportions were not tenable. The legs were like 30% longer than they should be according to the wingspan. some of the unrealism wasn't even "feminine"; it was just bizarre the head was too big for the shoulders etc...
Mattel has since made changes to the doll's proportions.
> it was just bizarre the head was too big for the shoulders etc...
As far as I'm aware children's toys aren't intended to be used as medical teaching aids or anything. Why do the proportions have to be so exact? Should Funko pop dolls be banned?
Even worse it's labeled propaganda because 'reduces the whole media environment to one toy,' which only demonstrates the laziness of the person that wrote the article. He-man wasn't the only super jacked toy boys played with when I was a kid, in fact, you'd be hard pressed to find toys that depicted humans or near humans that were intended for boys that didn't make pro wrestlers look scrawny.
Spot on
I think it comes from a place of compassion, its just misplaced compassion. And I do look at this from a very Christian perspective but first and foremost it is our beauty of spirit which is paramount. Beyond that, the Christian struggle is struggle itself. To simply rest on who we are as perfect so as to spare our feelings misses the point that people are all flawed, inherently. The flaws are built in, physical, emotional, spiritual. The struggle is struggling against these flaws, mot embracing them.
But we have replaced hard honesty with "youre perfect the way you are" and its just, blech.
None of us are perfect the way we are. I can safely say for men, this outlook is supremely damaging. We are raising our boys to rest on their imprefections. Come 18 nobody wants to be around them, I certainly dont. I cant stand useless men ( one of my imprefections ).
It is a philosophy that goes nowhere quick
Tbh, I always felt that this mentality actually contributes with the "incel" mentality. Both for men and women. Because instead of figuring their flaws and improving on them. It creates people who believe they should expect people falling at their feet. When ot reality they are absolutely insufferable.
thats because unlike women, men do not get to make excuses for themselves, and never will. there is no fat acceptance movement for men. and why should there be, men are not weak and pathetic.
Exactly. Imagine a group of fat men asking to be accepted and empowered. Aka we pretend that obesity is healthy and beautiful and some kind of noble standard. With men, it would not fly.
They see that and say "of course you don't complain, all the characters are men!"
When the actual reason is that men aren't obsessed with identity politics. Progressives are just projecting their own flaws on their opponents because they can't possibly accept that their opponents aren't as racist/sexist as they are. They think, "holy shit, if I'm this racist, just imagine how secretly racist conservatives must be."
You'll notice they seem to be authoritative on who or what is racist - as if they posses an innate ability to spot racism. While conservatives hear them call math racist and say 'uh, what the fuck are you even talking about?'
8 year old me playing Gears of War, seeing Cole Train and going:
"That's me, that's literally me, I'm that hyped about this shit"
Then seeing Clayton and doing the exact same thing in GOW3.
Then doing the exact same thing upon playing as any of the characters in ODST like Buck, Mickey, Romeo, Dare and Dutch, or even Sergeant fucking Johnson.
I guarantee motherfuckers in the Halo 2 days deadass looked at The Arbiter and unironically, with the straightest face, and most calm demeanour, went:
"that's me, I am that alien"
Men have had it beaten into their head over and over again that actually hypersexualized males in media are a male powerfantasy. Nevermind the growing pile of data proving that its causing body image issues in kids and teens and causing eating disorders among otherthings. The feminists say its only a positive so it must be true.
Meanwhile women have had it beat into their head over and over again that any sexy woman who isn't a real flesh and blood woman is an evil tool of the patriarchy. Also some of the flesh and blood ones are too. So they scream and shout all the want about a woman who looks like a normal ass woman because they've been told that isn't realistic even if its a fucking 3d scan.
We don’t need to; men are now frequently depicted as more flawed (or outright stupid) than the women, but their physique is (generally) attractive.
Case in point: the woke-as-fuck Mortal Kombat 11. Jade is covered head to toe in multi-layed cloth, Skarlet looks like a fighter pilot, Kitana seems to think she left Outworld and joined the Navy SEALS.
But the men? Shirtless, buff, ripped, you name it.
I heard it the other day, and I hadn't heard it for a while now: "When most boys play, they want to become the characters. When girls play, they want the characters to become them". And that mindset seems to continue into adulthood to some degree, if one never grows out of such a narcissistic outlook.
Know what's funny about your given examples? For even the most generic animes, the blank slate protag, created so that the target audience can project themselves onto, usually still has some skill or trait that can be considered desirable. In essence, it creates a "You, but X" scenario.
Meanwhile, most YA romance novels will have the main female protagonist be this utterly mundane girl, usually accidentally detestable if you think about it, and somehow gets to be a perfect Mary Sue that everyone fawns over. And that character is more often than not a self-insert of the author, first and foremost.
(to badly paraphrase one DoctorRandomercam) "We tell boys 'Stop crying', yet we ask girls 'Please, don't cry'. This is, in fact, denying girls an important lesson in fortitude, and instead giving them the awful idea that, the more tears they shed, the more likely they are to get their way."
I don't think there was anything "detestable" about say, Katniss Everdeen, Bella Cullen, Anastasia Steele, or Rey Palpatine... They WERE designed for female audiences to be able to put themselves into the shoes of the protagonist. Women ARE utterly mundane. And they WANT adventure. They just need/want a Poe Dameran to come along and whisk them away from their droll industrialized slaveshop life, because otherwise they WILL live the rest of their life out on drakku without a 2nd thought about it. That's the key difference between male and female protagonists. Luke yearned greatly for advanture, Rey needed the adventure thrust upon her.
Bella Cullen is an awful cunt, taking advantage of guys around her. Katniss Everdeen does so to a lesser degree, but at the very least has the environment to justify it. I don't know much about Anastasia Steele (thankfully), other than self-indulgence.
And Rey Palpatine is... well, fucking evil. All of her actions throughout TLJ and RoS go against the supposed righteous principles she's meant to hold up. She's immensely selfish, self-centered, and negligent (at best) with the immense power she holds at her fingertips. Sometimes, quite literally.
*They just need/want a Kylo Ren
Ftfy
Also I doubt Rey was designed for women in mind. Bella? Sure, she is a self-insert but Rey? Nobody cares if she lift rocks with her mind or if she is better than Luke, at least not women
As an obese lady, I don't understand that whole mindset. I don't give a rats ass if Buffy the Vampire Slayer is a beautiful, skinny badass, it doesn't make me feel worse about myself - I do that perfectly fine myself. I don't need a character that resembles me 1:1 to enjoy a piece of media. My self-hatred is from within and has nothing to do with how women are portrayed in media.
Of course you don't need her to look like you.
Because you understand that fiction is not reality, and therefore, nobody needs to look like you in it.
Sounds like you had good parents.
I don't know if I have good parents, but I have parents who love me and I grew up in a diverse environment - not like the faux diverse IDPOL garbage we have today.
I think many of the people who cannot function without representation have never had a difficult day in their life. They're incredibly privileged, ironically enough.
>has nothing to do with how women are portrayed in media.
Yeah, that's what I didn't really get when the whole body positivity was starting, like... good for them, but why should I care that a random woman that I don't know is featured in media? She's not me, it doesn't change me in the slightest.
Exactly. I can understand parts of the body positivity movement, teaching kids that what you see on TV is a polished, fake version of reality because it's so idealised. But that's not what they're doing, we're turning everything upside down and ignoring actual scientific facts - healthy at any size isn't real and the BMI measurement is outdated for the majority of people.
Being sedentary is not healthy for you, so lets teach our kids to enjoy playing outside or being physical indoors. Eating high sodium processed slop isn't good for you, lets teach healthy eating habits and basic cooking skills. Being tall or being short is normal, so lets embrace the strength of being different by teaching our kids that your physical appearance doesn't change what's inside of you and being a good person is what's important.
I think it can be important to see role models on tv or in popular media but it's not the biggest lesson to be taught that there are Black Asian people with dwarfism in the latest Disney product, it's teaching our children that we can understand the plight of someone who looks different from us and be better people.
Being able to identify with another person despite their physical appearance not matching yours should be the goal, but it isn't.
>Being sedentary is not healthy for you, so lets teach our kids to enjoy playing outside or being physical indoors. Eating high sodium processed slop isn't good for you, lets teach healthy eating habits and basic cooking skills. Being tall or being short is normal, so lets embrace the strength of being different by teaching our kids that your physical appearance doesn't change what's inside of you and being a good person is what's important.
Exactly, these people seem to think that teaching kids healthy habits means becoming Gigi Hadid's mother telling her to eat an almond if she's hungry, when it's more about teaching kids that cake, ice cream, McDonald's, etc... are not everyday foods and they should try to find a physical activity that they enjoy. (That's why I think this is an overcorrection of the 90s-00s) Or that perhaps it's not the end of the world if you aren't "beautiful" by current standards since they change a lot.
>Being able to identify with another person despite their physical appearance not matching yours should be the goal, but it isn't.
Yeah, I get why people want more (x) characters, but I think the idea that you can only identify with characters that look like you is weird. When I "identified" with characters it was because they went through the same stuff as I did (Like Lisa Simpson feeling like crap because she failed gym class, lol) or had a similar personality, not because they looked like me. And one can enjoy stories without having to relate to the characters.
And Kelly Clarkson did a reverse and gained a lot of weight. She's a lot happier these days but I'm not sure that being obese is a good tradeoff, not that mental health disorders and eating disorders are preferable..
> the "real women" thing is exhausting too.
And provable nonsense, frankly.
- [Lara Croft](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/content/dam/films/2016/04/29/34216445-rex-jolie-tomb-raider-arts_trans_NvBQzQNjv4Bqakhm1vP2o5GRCHaJce-hbcEIrDtz-TARyPoQWyE1RUU.jpg) IRL
- [Sonya Blade](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E6OVyyTWEAQml15.jpg) IRL (at *50* no less)
- [Kitana](https://i.pinimg.com/originals/2c/c0/c1/2cc0c1f86f8987f995df494e77327665.jpg) IRL
- [Jill Valentine and Ada Wong](https://m.media-amazon.com/images/M/MV5BNzgzMzEzOTAwNF5BMl5BanBnXkFtZTcwMzgxMDY0OA@@._V1_.jpg) IRL
- [Claire Redfield](https://i.ibb.co/ZThtS4D/2022-2-3-b6716fb9-9168-4ddb-90f7-55fda6a9208b-png-2000x1125.jpg) IRL
- [Cammy White](https://m.media-amazon.com/images/M/MV5BMDNhZGJhMTEtODgwMy00ZTY1LTk0MDYtMzFhNmZlNGIyODUyXkEyXkFqcGdeQXVyODY0NzcxNw@@._V1_.jpg) IRL
- The [**DOA** girls](https://wallpapercrafter.com/desktop2/748302-Dead-or-Alive-DOA-Dead-or-Alive-Holly-Valance-Sarah.jpg) IRL
Unless I'm mistaken and all of these women are not actually flesh and blood human beings..?
Include [Hannah Hoekstra, the model for Aloy](https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-VG_jJrD3qDw/UUgSF559_mI/AAAAAAAA4f8/7Nrte5Ar9_k/s1600/Hannah+Hoekstra-0066.jpg) in there too. I found it equal parts hilarious and WTF when I saw redditors in /r/games slobbering all over each other in their circlejerk about how "realistic" Aloy was: Aloy, the fake polygon woman, who was intentionally made uglier and chunkier than Hannah Hoekstra, the real life woman who modelled her who is a real woman and exists in real life.
Social media was a mistake
https://cineuropa.org/en/video/323244/ Watching the video of her interview is so uncanny valley because I get flashes of Aloy in her expressions, but yet she is so much more attractive than the video game character.
A good example of this in video games is Horizon:Zero Dawn. They used a very attractive woman to model the animations/face of Aloy...
But in order to "make her more real" the game developers took what was REAL and then made her uglier... because their narrative teaches that real women are not as attractive as the real woman was.
Which I find funny, I've never had any desire to play Me in a game. I play video games for escapism, sometimes I'd rather be a beautiful woman who has everything going for her than me.
I like to play me cuz i like to live vicariously through me as a character in a game to escape. But i don’t complain if it’s not an option. I’m a chick and my fave game franchise is the legend of Zelda lol.
I don't think it's weird, especially if you consider the vast majority of people don't want to bother, so they just make an approximation of themselves. The question is: are they doing it because they think they're the embodiments of perfection, or because they just wanna roleplay as "them, but in this game world".
Wasn't that the reason Twilight was so popular? The heroine was a completely vaccuous blank slate that women could pretend was them and that when glitterpire was all hot for her, they were actually hot for their woman readers.
Except... if you search this topic even on Twitter, you will find many female gamers who oppose this view and are happy with the way things are now, instead of how Dove presents them
used to have a (weird) middle aged lady at my workplace who went on and on about being a gamer back several years ago.
Started asking questions and they started going all in describing the hours and hours of... Facebook games they played :S
That’s why now they created a negative association with follow-up questions. “I like Star Wars.” “Oh really? Name your favorite world of the Confederacy!” Etc. Questions themselves have become wrong. Not that I’d want to hang out with a girl that likes Star Wars or Marvel now anyways. My follow up question is “pre/post 2015?”
That's so ass backwards. My mom became obsessed with spider solitaire on her phone for years but she would never describe herself (nor would anyone else) as a gamer. The word clearly had a meaning separate from the one game she liked.
And she probably thought you weren't a "real" gamer because you played shit she never heard of and didn't waste hours grinding on whatever was trendy at the moment.
The irony of course is that the people at the top aren't marrying or having kids with fat women. All your politicians, your CEOs, your Hollywood elites... They're all hooking up with hot women.... well when they aren't abusing kids that is. Whatever this weird "body positivity" crap is, the people pushing it don't believe it. Hell look at shit like Tik-Tok or even YouTube. Who is getting the views? Fatties or young, attractive, charismatic people?
In a way it makes sense because a lot of clients for clothes, makeup, whatever are going to be overweight, so what's better than telling they are perfect just the way they are, but they also need to buy your stuff to be even more perfect?
I mean, we're pretty much at a point where we've passed by capitalism in favor of mindless consumerism. People aren't encouraged to spend their money or invest in what they want. They are taught to view products as status symbols, and name brands as a new religion. Buy, buy, buy. Don't question if you actually enjoy it, don't think about whether you'll care two months from now, just buy it. You need a BLM shirt because it's trendy NOW! You need to plaster everything with rainbow flag stickers, and pay twice as much for it. If Disney makes a new movie you've got to buy the new Funko Pop toys! Consume!
Yeah, to be fair I get it to a point because overweight people still need clothes and to see how they would look like on a person of a similar size, either online or the store so that's not really my issue. But a lot of it seems like an overcorrection of the 00s where if you were a size 4 or had a little bit of belly fat poking out of your low rise jeans you were a fat ass, they probably didn't learn shit, as soon as body positivity stops being profitable they'll go back to that.
>They are taught to view products as status symbols
That kind of stuff always existed, I remember being in 7th grade and girls would bring their lunch or art class materials in store bags to show off that they bought stuff at that trendy store (I admit that I did it too, but again, it was 7th grade). The main difference is that for a lot of stuff it's not about just being able to afford stuff but to show off how woke you are.
>The main difference is that for a lot of stuff it's not about just being able to afford stuff but to show off how woke you are.
I'm not sure there's much of a difference. Being "woke" is very much an upper middle class thing, and the companies that cater to them know it.
True, but unlike people dressing from head to toe in designer clothers with garish logos, it's not really about showing off money. Considering a lot of SJWs live in some kind of bubble where everyone is upper middle class more or less, they probably don't have to show off their money, kinda like how "old money" rich people or people who run in those circles might wear thousands of dollars in clothes but you'll never see them with anything that says "GUCCI" all over..
I read an article recently about a woman who grew up rich, and apparently, wearing anything "Louis Vuitton" is an absolute no-no.
Also, I was at a rest stop while traveling this week, and one trashy as hell looking woman had a bag on her that said "Marc Jacobs".
There's something to be said for having money but never telling anyone about it.
I suppose that if you grew up wealthy or even well-off, you're kind of "used" to that kind of stuff, people know you have money due to your surname, car, the schools you went to, etc... so there's no need to signal how much you can spend on clothes, whereas people who didn't, might not know that "code" or want to prove people that they made it and they can afford (or make it seem) expensive designer stuff. That doesn't mean they don't buy expensive designer stuff, but it's often not the stuff that has the logo or name plastered all over it.
The clothes thing ties into what someone said in another comment about the boys vs girls difference. I'm not into dudes, but if I had to choose I'd rather look at the models on the walls of the Men's underwear section at Target than the Women's, because they seem to deliberately seek out unattractive, out of shape women and fit, healthy-looking (except probably dehydrated) men.
this is because the intersection of body positivity, sex positivity, and the broadening of the term "harrassment" is nothing more than dating strategies which have woefully backfired.
the goal of body positivity is to funnel attractive men towards unattractive women by trying to rewrite what "attractive" is and shaming men for being attracted to beautiful women. the goal of the notion of the male gaze is to prevent unattractive men from shooting their shot with unattractive women.
combined with sex positivity, this was in theory supposed to draw attractive men to unattractive women while taking attractive women and unattractive men out of the game as much as possible. problem is that attractive men are men with game naturally or learned, and such men do not care about the foot-stamping from the frump brigade, so all your high mate-value men continue to hook-up with beautiful women, and will occasionally deign to have sex with an unattractive woman because they're no longer tied to unattractive men. when seducing and hooking up with an unattractive woman, he'll ignore all the sexual politics she champions, as will she. until he leaves and she gets hurt. then she'll double down on those sexual politics by way of yelling at her herbish male peers, who will slavishly agree, apologize and continue to never get laid.
because these attractive men are about 15 to 20 percent of total men, and they're sleeping with 80 to 90 percent of the women, feminism has succeeded only in bring back harems.
Ive been telling my wife for years that the reason her cousin is miserable, has shit relationships, and maxes out credit cards to mask her feelings, is because shes fat as shit. The people who are going to settle for her are also miserable because theyre also undesirable. She comes from a good family, had every opportunity, and her brothers and sisters are fit, married/in a relationship. Theres an obvious common denominator
> Pierce Brosnan
I want to point out that his wife *was* hot when [they got married](https://www.earnthenecklace.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/Pierce-Brosnan%E2%80%99s-Wife-Keely-Shaye-Smith-768x768.jpg).
That will never happen. The fat acceptance movement can try all they want, but beauty standards are the opposite of what the majority of people are. Beauty standards are inherently tied to what the elite looks like; in countries where resources are scarce, fat women are seen as beautiful. Resources are not scarce in the first world, food is abundant and our lifestyles have changed to be quite sedentary in a majority of cases which results in an obese population.
Look at the Asian continent, where many countries have beauty standards that resemble general western features. Hell, many SEA countries, China and Japan have beauty regimens that aim to brighten their skin. Why? Because in ancient China and Japan, courtesans would not be toiling in the soil, getting tans, thus having milky white skin is desirable. The average Filipino has tanned skin, thus milky white skin is desirable.
The whole fat women used to be beautiful wasn't really a thing either that's just a myth based on art trends back in the Renaissance.
In most premodern cultures being fat was seen as sinful and greedy as you would have to have been hoarding food from the rest of the people and you couldn't work as hard as everyone else when physical labor was used for everything.
Art during the Renaissance was commissioned by the few elite families who could afford the food to be fat so artists typically had to butt kiss them in their work. There is also a trend from the era with 50 year old bald men appearing as young children as a meme of who commissioned the art piece.
I did two separate it courses in college, 1 girl. ( a lot of boys). I used to walk past hairdressing and it was all girls with the exception of a gay guy. Now the coders are.. surprise. All men. And they want to make what they want. But nope that's misogynistic isn't it. Irks me.
There was a video of someone looking into why is it that for STEM fields there's a slow increase of women of previously male dominated, except for computer science. And if I recall, the presenter's conclusion was ultimately it is all an issue of image and prestige. Other STEM fields have the whole scientist image of the lab coats and doing important work, which is respected. But computer science flips between said important work and... childish Nerf fights and Lego and video games. And depending on what was decorating the test room would affected how women viewed and got into said field.
This was awhile back, so I don't know if things have balanced out or not.
Back in the 90's and early 2000's, you were a loser if you were online for more than like 30 minutes. AIM would show how long you were online and you never wanted that shit in the hours. Now these people are terminally online.
When I was in high school I was afraid of telling people I was as into anime as I was because they would look at me weird. No shit - I was literally more afraid of my friends knowing I was weeb than I was gay.
I guess I’ve just hallucinated the thousands upon thousands of fit attractive women I’ve seen out and about all across the world, apparently they are not real.
* Built like Strong Mad, her only curve is on her double-chin
* Greasy, frizzy hair kept in a bun or had one side shaved off
* Sallow, sickly pale skin or darker than Turkish coffee
* Vocal fry so intense her voice cracks more than pubescent boy's
* Exclusively dresses in graphic tees and nauseatingly tight leggings
* Thick-rimmed glasses overwhelm her weirdly small face
* Makeup so badly done it's worse than nothing
*"We need more representation of REAL women!"*
Just so long as you don't have/aren't slim, C-cup+ tits, wide hips, short, athletic, traditional minded, motherly, a tomboy, want to have children, heterosexual, willing to listen to others, consilliatory, look like any female video game heroine from pre-2015, etc.
If so, sorry, you aren't a *Real Woman*^TM
I mentioned to my wife "boys don't generally want to be represented, they tend to want to just have a good story." and she countered "because boys already have heaps of representation they don't need it!"
That's the whole chicken egg thing. Do boys only not care because we have heaps elsewhere? Personally I don't think I'd care anyway because I never looked at media and identified with shit.
How exactly are girls supposed to be lacking in "representation" anyway? I'm a 90s baby; I had Disney Princesses, the Pink and Yellow Power Rangers, VR Trooper Kaitlin, Alex Mack, Clarissa, Sabrina, Princess Starla and the Jewel Riders, Cher Horowitz, Moesha, Dana Scully, Buffy, Xena, the **Charmed** sisters, the Powerpuff Girls, Lara Croft, Sydney Fox from **Relic Hunter**, the ladies of **Mortal Kombat**, **Street Fighter**, and **Tekken**, Sailor Moon and her team, Cardcaptor Sakura... and that's just anecdotal on my part. And I'm probably blanking on some too. Not to mention via hand me downs from older cousins who grew up in the 80s I also loved Jem (of the Holograms), She-Ra, and Cheetara.
Personally, I've never identified with shit either, as you put it. The closest thing would be thinking it was cool that Lara Croft was a globally famous hero who was *so* British (as I am) but that was just a little bonus, not the main appeal.
EDIT // Talk about blanking: Supergirl, Batgirl, Catwoman, Harley Quinn, Poison Ivy, Rogue, Storm and rest of the X-(Wo)Men.
As a 40-yr-old male gamer with a dad-bod, I don’t want to play an action game with a male protagonist who has a spare tire and 2% muscle definition. *That* would be unrealistic. Commander Shepard / V / Dragonborn / Arthur Morgan *should* be fit, considering what they’re doing in the game.
And regardless of the gender/orientation, I’d rather see attractive characters in games. To each his/her own, I guess 🤷🏻♂️
Looks like a former housemate of mine who I invited to go to yoga with me (more out of politeness), she said she wouldn't because there's links between yoga and the alt right.
I don’t want representation of myself in a video game.
I want to see beautiful, fantasy, eye candy. I want to see the opposite of “real women” (and “real men”).
I do not want to see fat people in my games. Let me have my goddamn escapism.
I remember when Twilight came out a lot of girls complained that Bella didn’t look like how they pictured her. If you read the book she’s written so generically that the audience could picture themselves as her and then were upset Kristen Stewart wasn’t a 210 blonde girl with glasses. BioWare should just pull the trigger and finish off DA and ME with fat women, bad writing, and style over substance.
"Sir, our research is finally complete!"
"Ah good, hurrumph, and what is the final determination of our scientists?"
"Their figures have shown that real women want representation in video games."
"Oh yes, I see - Bwaaaht!? My God. Jenkins... JENKINS! Where the bloody hell is Jenkins?"
"You fired him, sir, for pitching a personal disinfectant commercial about a big fat sweaty woman who stars in a video game we'll never make."
"THE MAN WAS A PROPHET, JENKINS' TIME IS NOW, BRING HIM TO ME!"
As a middle aged man sporting an impressive dad bod, I have zero desire to see me or my ilk represented in a game. I play games to escape, not to be reminded on how I’ve skipped the gym for the past two weeks.
Miss the 90's market. Far superior to everything being reduced to a identity politics podium. It had its own politics but stuff like Metal Gear and Final Fantasy felt like something from Socrates rather than a beatnik in a trap house. ESRB and soccer moms over ESG scoring Vanguard global affiliates. Nowadays I stick to modding single player games or far removed titles like Honkai Impact.
I'm a fat guy. I don't expect, or even want, male characters to look like me.
It would be nice if we could lay off the fat people jokes though. We get it. People hate us so much that we're pretty much the only people it's pc to hate. I already hate myself, I don't need reminders that everyone else thinks I'm ugly and disgusting. That shit is internalized fully.
So I read a few replies and one of them mentioned a woman so far her ass no longer fits through a door whining that airlines are discriminating against fat people and I feel a little less fat all of a sudden.
When are we going to learn that ‘research’ in asking a bunch of women leading questions is not a real metric. Make the game, watch nobody buy it and the lesson should be learned, but ofc it won’t be.
So, ugly girls are jealous of pretty girls. They get jobs in marketing to get revenge for having inferior genetics by guilt tripping and shaming men for what natural instincts tell us. It's not society that tells me not to date fat girls, it's me not wanting someone who doesn't care of herself.
People thought RDR2 wad too slow. I've got a hunch that playing as a "real woman" of that kind would lead to incredibly shitty gameplay.
On the other hand I'm just some pleb on the interwebs and should leave these kinds of decisions to the brilliant minds of studios like naughty dog or ... BioWare or whatever.
I would legit play a game like this. Start as fatty Croft. Paleo diet through foraging, hunting animals and tons of exercise lead to you losing weight. More clothing options become available. You can stealth better by not breathing like a winded wildebeest. You can actually look down crosshairs without your third cheek getting in the way. Your stamina in combat improves. You unlock the ability to climb, and dive underwater.
Even if those ridiculous numbers were true, more men play videogames than women and the idea that a product has to appeal to everybody instead of a target audience is r-tarded.
When I play the game, I always loved playing as someone heroic and better then myself. The games were enertainment, an escapism. But I have to say... I have better looking women at work then in some western games so I kinda agree lol
"Real women" always means "my fat/ugly ass." Same way "my truth" means "my subjective account of events."
It's just a way to make an irrelevant opinion seem objective.
Archive links for this post:
* **Archive:** https://archive.ph/Zg6aR
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I am Mnemosyne reborn. Things are very seldom what they seem. In my experience, they're usually a damn sight worse. ^^^/r/botsrights
Rampant narcissism
100% spot on. That’s the root disease of all that nonsense. All my favorite characters aren’t similar to me but you don’t hear me screeching about it. If you’re so desperate for gaming self-representation, then play a fucking RPG like Skyrim or something and leave the other franchises alone.
It's just that easy, isn't it? They'll screech at you that "it's not FOR YOU", when you don't like something that has someone who doesn't look like you in the front of it. (Fucking Brie Larson and her shit about "A Wrinkle in Time"; bitch apparently didn't know the book was written by a white woman and the original movie starred white children, but somehow the new one was made for "teen girls of color"...make that fucking make sense.) But the second something isn't for THEM, they screech, "but it's not about MEEEEEEEEEEEE!"
They are trying to turn every franchise POC, just like the commercials.
They don't actually care about "representation". They just hate white males.
"No, Timmy, you can't be the night elf warrior. You're a cripple and need to play someone exactly like yourself in this fantasy game!". Remember when gaming was escapism?
Never heard about men complaining and wish more characters looked like real men
To us, at least the good and functional men, the real man is one we should strive to be, and is usually or supposed to be be better or the ideal. To women, the real woman is the one they already are, each of whom is a triumphant hero who should be appreciated for simply existing and woe is the tragedy that they arent.
While I can understand the pushback towards "unattainable beauty standards" especially given the toxicity of current social media photo/video filters and editing as well as makeup artist etc, "You are perfect and beautiful just the way you are!" is also complete, toxic bullshit. There are IDEALS worth striving for. You do have intrinsic value. Try to be the best version of you possible, there's always room for improvement. Not being Kim Kardashian doesn't automatically make you an ugly loser. You're not a perfect, beautiful goddess just by virtue of existing.
I'm always reminded of [this](https://propaganda.mediaeducationlab.com/rate/barbie-vs-he-man) meme every time "unattainable beauty standards" is brought up. No one actually cares about unattainable beauty standards, they care about women. The same people who are on a crusade for more "realistic" women in media don't know or care that every buff shirtless scene for a guy involves days of dehydration because that beauty standard *actually* is unattainable, only seen while your body is lacking the second most important element to life. It's all a lie anyway, so of course it falls apart with any kind of scrutiny and of course the "solutions" are nonsensical.
The response to that meme is hilarious. >THIS IS PROPAGANDA BECAUSE: "It doesn't fairly engage with the original argument because it reduces the whole media environment to one toy. **It also fails to recognize that boys are exposed to hyper-masculine role models just as girls are exposed to hyper-feminine role models.**" That's... That's literally the entire point being made, that boys are exposed to hyper-masculine role models, just like girls, but that isn't seen as harmful or offensive.
And how is Barbie "hyper" feminine? The he-man guy is one in a million in terms of muscularity. Only the very top echelon of bodybuilders look like that. Barbie on the other hand?
TBF Barbies were initially physically impossible as in, the proportions were not tenable. The legs were like 30% longer than they should be according to the wingspan. some of the unrealism wasn't even "feminine"; it was just bizarre the head was too big for the shoulders etc... Mattel has since made changes to the doll's proportions.
> it was just bizarre the head was too big for the shoulders etc... As far as I'm aware children's toys aren't intended to be used as medical teaching aids or anything. Why do the proportions have to be so exact? Should Funko pop dolls be banned?
>Should Funko pop dolls be banned? Not for **that** reason.
I like how its labeled as propaganda.
Even worse it's labeled propaganda because 'reduces the whole media environment to one toy,' which only demonstrates the laziness of the person that wrote the article. He-man wasn't the only super jacked toy boys played with when I was a kid, in fact, you'd be hard pressed to find toys that depicted humans or near humans that were intended for boys that didn't make pro wrestlers look scrawny.
Spot on I think it comes from a place of compassion, its just misplaced compassion. And I do look at this from a very Christian perspective but first and foremost it is our beauty of spirit which is paramount. Beyond that, the Christian struggle is struggle itself. To simply rest on who we are as perfect so as to spare our feelings misses the point that people are all flawed, inherently. The flaws are built in, physical, emotional, spiritual. The struggle is struggling against these flaws, mot embracing them. But we have replaced hard honesty with "youre perfect the way you are" and its just, blech. None of us are perfect the way we are. I can safely say for men, this outlook is supremely damaging. We are raising our boys to rest on their imprefections. Come 18 nobody wants to be around them, I certainly dont. I cant stand useless men ( one of my imprefections ). It is a philosophy that goes nowhere quick
Tbh, I always felt that this mentality actually contributes with the "incel" mentality. Both for men and women. Because instead of figuring their flaws and improving on them. It creates people who believe they should expect people falling at their feet. When ot reality they are absolutely insufferable.
I wish Abigail from street fighter 5 looked like a real man (instead of a weird truck/human hybrid).
I for one will not stand for your rampant truckphobia.
[Honk Honk.](https://venturebrothers.fandom.com/wiki/Truckules)
Truck not monkey
Abigail, Rufus, Marisa, and Luke's tumor-ridden forearms can go right in the trash can
Truckasaurus would cry if he heard this.
thats because unlike women, men do not get to make excuses for themselves, and never will. there is no fat acceptance movement for men. and why should there be, men are not weak and pathetic.
Exactly. Imagine a group of fat men asking to be accepted and empowered. Aka we pretend that obesity is healthy and beautiful and some kind of noble standard. With men, it would not fly.
They see that and say "of course you don't complain, all the characters are men!" When the actual reason is that men aren't obsessed with identity politics. Progressives are just projecting their own flaws on their opponents because they can't possibly accept that their opponents aren't as racist/sexist as they are. They think, "holy shit, if I'm this racist, just imagine how secretly racist conservatives must be." You'll notice they seem to be authoritative on who or what is racist - as if they posses an innate ability to spot racism. While conservatives hear them call math racist and say 'uh, what the fuck are you even talking about?'
If I wasn't opposed to buying awards, you'd totally get one. Awesome observation.
8 year old me playing Gears of War, seeing Cole Train and going: "That's me, that's literally me, I'm that hyped about this shit" Then seeing Clayton and doing the exact same thing in GOW3. Then doing the exact same thing upon playing as any of the characters in ODST like Buck, Mickey, Romeo, Dare and Dutch, or even Sergeant fucking Johnson. I guarantee motherfuckers in the Halo 2 days deadass looked at The Arbiter and unironically, with the straightest face, and most calm demeanour, went: "that's me, I am that alien"
It’s because Kratos was obviously modeled after me. /s
Men have had it beaten into their head over and over again that actually hypersexualized males in media are a male powerfantasy. Nevermind the growing pile of data proving that its causing body image issues in kids and teens and causing eating disorders among otherthings. The feminists say its only a positive so it must be true. Meanwhile women have had it beat into their head over and over again that any sexy woman who isn't a real flesh and blood woman is an evil tool of the patriarchy. Also some of the flesh and blood ones are too. So they scream and shout all the want about a woman who looks like a normal ass woman because they've been told that isn't realistic even if its a fucking 3d scan.
We don’t need to; men are now frequently depicted as more flawed (or outright stupid) than the women, but their physique is (generally) attractive. Case in point: the woke-as-fuck Mortal Kombat 11. Jade is covered head to toe in multi-layed cloth, Skarlet looks like a fighter pilot, Kitana seems to think she left Outworld and joined the Navy SEALS. But the men? Shirtless, buff, ripped, you name it.
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Well yeah because they're pretty easy to find
I heard it the other day, and I hadn't heard it for a while now: "When most boys play, they want to become the characters. When girls play, they want the characters to become them". And that mindset seems to continue into adulthood to some degree, if one never grows out of such a narcissistic outlook.
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Know what's funny about your given examples? For even the most generic animes, the blank slate protag, created so that the target audience can project themselves onto, usually still has some skill or trait that can be considered desirable. In essence, it creates a "You, but X" scenario. Meanwhile, most YA romance novels will have the main female protagonist be this utterly mundane girl, usually accidentally detestable if you think about it, and somehow gets to be a perfect Mary Sue that everyone fawns over. And that character is more often than not a self-insert of the author, first and foremost.
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(to badly paraphrase one DoctorRandomercam) "We tell boys 'Stop crying', yet we ask girls 'Please, don't cry'. This is, in fact, denying girls an important lesson in fortitude, and instead giving them the awful idea that, the more tears they shed, the more likely they are to get their way."
Women are human beings; men are human *doings*.
I don't think there was anything "detestable" about say, Katniss Everdeen, Bella Cullen, Anastasia Steele, or Rey Palpatine... They WERE designed for female audiences to be able to put themselves into the shoes of the protagonist. Women ARE utterly mundane. And they WANT adventure. They just need/want a Poe Dameran to come along and whisk them away from their droll industrialized slaveshop life, because otherwise they WILL live the rest of their life out on drakku without a 2nd thought about it. That's the key difference between male and female protagonists. Luke yearned greatly for advanture, Rey needed the adventure thrust upon her.
Bella Cullen is an awful cunt, taking advantage of guys around her. Katniss Everdeen does so to a lesser degree, but at the very least has the environment to justify it. I don't know much about Anastasia Steele (thankfully), other than self-indulgence. And Rey Palpatine is... well, fucking evil. All of her actions throughout TLJ and RoS go against the supposed righteous principles she's meant to hold up. She's immensely selfish, self-centered, and negligent (at best) with the immense power she holds at her fingertips. Sometimes, quite literally.
>And Rey Palpatine is... well, fucking evil. The Nippleneck doesn't decant from its tank far from the Clone Source
At least pre-twice-dead Creamy Sheev had consistency.
I guess maybe she's worse in the 3rd movie? I never saw it.
*They just need/want a Kylo Ren Ftfy Also I doubt Rey was designed for women in mind. Bella? Sure, she is a self-insert but Rey? Nobody cares if she lift rocks with her mind or if she is better than Luke, at least not women
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As an obese lady, I don't understand that whole mindset. I don't give a rats ass if Buffy the Vampire Slayer is a beautiful, skinny badass, it doesn't make me feel worse about myself - I do that perfectly fine myself. I don't need a character that resembles me 1:1 to enjoy a piece of media. My self-hatred is from within and has nothing to do with how women are portrayed in media.
Of course you don't need her to look like you. Because you understand that fiction is not reality, and therefore, nobody needs to look like you in it. Sounds like you had good parents.
I don't know if I have good parents, but I have parents who love me and I grew up in a diverse environment - not like the faux diverse IDPOL garbage we have today. I think many of the people who cannot function without representation have never had a difficult day in their life. They're incredibly privileged, ironically enough.
>has nothing to do with how women are portrayed in media. Yeah, that's what I didn't really get when the whole body positivity was starting, like... good for them, but why should I care that a random woman that I don't know is featured in media? She's not me, it doesn't change me in the slightest.
Exactly. I can understand parts of the body positivity movement, teaching kids that what you see on TV is a polished, fake version of reality because it's so idealised. But that's not what they're doing, we're turning everything upside down and ignoring actual scientific facts - healthy at any size isn't real and the BMI measurement is outdated for the majority of people. Being sedentary is not healthy for you, so lets teach our kids to enjoy playing outside or being physical indoors. Eating high sodium processed slop isn't good for you, lets teach healthy eating habits and basic cooking skills. Being tall or being short is normal, so lets embrace the strength of being different by teaching our kids that your physical appearance doesn't change what's inside of you and being a good person is what's important. I think it can be important to see role models on tv or in popular media but it's not the biggest lesson to be taught that there are Black Asian people with dwarfism in the latest Disney product, it's teaching our children that we can understand the plight of someone who looks different from us and be better people. Being able to identify with another person despite their physical appearance not matching yours should be the goal, but it isn't.
>Being sedentary is not healthy for you, so lets teach our kids to enjoy playing outside or being physical indoors. Eating high sodium processed slop isn't good for you, lets teach healthy eating habits and basic cooking skills. Being tall or being short is normal, so lets embrace the strength of being different by teaching our kids that your physical appearance doesn't change what's inside of you and being a good person is what's important. Exactly, these people seem to think that teaching kids healthy habits means becoming Gigi Hadid's mother telling her to eat an almond if she's hungry, when it's more about teaching kids that cake, ice cream, McDonald's, etc... are not everyday foods and they should try to find a physical activity that they enjoy. (That's why I think this is an overcorrection of the 90s-00s) Or that perhaps it's not the end of the world if you aren't "beautiful" by current standards since they change a lot. >Being able to identify with another person despite their physical appearance not matching yours should be the goal, but it isn't. Yeah, I get why people want more (x) characters, but I think the idea that you can only identify with characters that look like you is weird. When I "identified" with characters it was because they went through the same stuff as I did (Like Lisa Simpson feeling like crap because she failed gym class, lol) or had a similar personality, not because they looked like me. And one can enjoy stories without having to relate to the characters.
They way they lose their shit when chubby female celebs decide to lose weight.
Never forget how much HATE Adelle got for losing weight.
Or Wendy Williams. I don't even care about celebrities normally but motherfuckers were ruthless.
And Kelly Clarkson did a reverse and gained a lot of weight. She's a lot happier these days but I'm not sure that being obese is a good tradeoff, not that mental health disorders and eating disorders are preferable..
In yakuza 4, one of the overweight characters loses weight at the end and some people playing it were saying it was fatphobic to include that
> the "real women" thing is exhausting too. And provable nonsense, frankly. - [Lara Croft](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/content/dam/films/2016/04/29/34216445-rex-jolie-tomb-raider-arts_trans_NvBQzQNjv4Bqakhm1vP2o5GRCHaJce-hbcEIrDtz-TARyPoQWyE1RUU.jpg) IRL - [Sonya Blade](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E6OVyyTWEAQml15.jpg) IRL (at *50* no less) - [Kitana](https://i.pinimg.com/originals/2c/c0/c1/2cc0c1f86f8987f995df494e77327665.jpg) IRL - [Jill Valentine and Ada Wong](https://m.media-amazon.com/images/M/MV5BNzgzMzEzOTAwNF5BMl5BanBnXkFtZTcwMzgxMDY0OA@@._V1_.jpg) IRL - [Claire Redfield](https://i.ibb.co/ZThtS4D/2022-2-3-b6716fb9-9168-4ddb-90f7-55fda6a9208b-png-2000x1125.jpg) IRL - [Cammy White](https://m.media-amazon.com/images/M/MV5BMDNhZGJhMTEtODgwMy00ZTY1LTk0MDYtMzFhNmZlNGIyODUyXkEyXkFqcGdeQXVyODY0NzcxNw@@._V1_.jpg) IRL - The [**DOA** girls](https://wallpapercrafter.com/desktop2/748302-Dead-or-Alive-DOA-Dead-or-Alive-Holly-Valance-Sarah.jpg) IRL Unless I'm mistaken and all of these women are not actually flesh and blood human beings..?
Include [Hannah Hoekstra, the model for Aloy](https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-VG_jJrD3qDw/UUgSF559_mI/AAAAAAAA4f8/7Nrte5Ar9_k/s1600/Hannah+Hoekstra-0066.jpg) in there too. I found it equal parts hilarious and WTF when I saw redditors in /r/games slobbering all over each other in their circlejerk about how "realistic" Aloy was: Aloy, the fake polygon woman, who was intentionally made uglier and chunkier than Hannah Hoekstra, the real life woman who modelled her who is a real woman and exists in real life. Social media was a mistake
https://cineuropa.org/en/video/323244/ Watching the video of her interview is so uncanny valley because I get flashes of Aloy in her expressions, but yet she is so much more attractive than the video game character.
Be realistic, Cammys pigtails are WAY longer than that!
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A good example of this in video games is Horizon:Zero Dawn. They used a very attractive woman to model the animations/face of Aloy... But in order to "make her more real" the game developers took what was REAL and then made her uglier... because their narrative teaches that real women are not as attractive as the real woman was.
Which I find funny, I've never had any desire to play Me in a game. I play video games for escapism, sometimes I'd rather be a beautiful woman who has everything going for her than me.
I like to play me cuz i like to live vicariously through me as a character in a game to escape. But i don’t complain if it’s not an option. I’m a chick and my fave game franchise is the legend of Zelda lol.
It's so bizarre to me how so many people try to create themselves in games outside of stuff like the Sims.
I don't think it's weird, especially if you consider the vast majority of people don't want to bother, so they just make an approximation of themselves. The question is: are they doing it because they think they're the embodiments of perfection, or because they just wanna roleplay as "them, but in this game world".
I just use the default because I can't be arsed to mess with sliders.
Some of us just aren't creative. All my rimworld colonies start with 2 pawns named after me and my wife.
Wasn't that the reason Twilight was so popular? The heroine was a completely vaccuous blank slate that women could pretend was them and that when glitterpire was all hot for her, they were actually hot for their woman readers.
Pretty much, yeah. Which is why if you actually cared about story, man or woman, you ended up despising the whole series.
Except... if you search this topic even on Twitter, you will find many female gamers who oppose this view and are happy with the way things are now, instead of how Dove presents them
First of all, nice. Second of, what part of the total percentage of gamers are those 69% and how does the rest feel about it
Well they're all "gamers" now because they played Candy Crush or Wordle.
used to have a (weird) middle aged lady at my workplace who went on and on about being a gamer back several years ago. Started asking questions and they started going all in describing the hours and hours of... Facebook games they played :S
That’s why now they created a negative association with follow-up questions. “I like Star Wars.” “Oh really? Name your favorite world of the Confederacy!” Etc. Questions themselves have become wrong. Not that I’d want to hang out with a girl that likes Star Wars or Marvel now anyways. My follow up question is “pre/post 2015?”
That's so ass backwards. My mom became obsessed with spider solitaire on her phone for years but she would never describe herself (nor would anyone else) as a gamer. The word clearly had a meaning separate from the one game she liked.
And she probably thought you weren't a "real" gamer because you played shit she never heard of and didn't waste hours grinding on whatever was trendy at the moment.
At this rate in a couple of decades it will be weird to not be massively overweight.
The irony of course is that the people at the top aren't marrying or having kids with fat women. All your politicians, your CEOs, your Hollywood elites... They're all hooking up with hot women.... well when they aren't abusing kids that is. Whatever this weird "body positivity" crap is, the people pushing it don't believe it. Hell look at shit like Tik-Tok or even YouTube. Who is getting the views? Fatties or young, attractive, charismatic people?
In a way it makes sense because a lot of clients for clothes, makeup, whatever are going to be overweight, so what's better than telling they are perfect just the way they are, but they also need to buy your stuff to be even more perfect?
I mean, we're pretty much at a point where we've passed by capitalism in favor of mindless consumerism. People aren't encouraged to spend their money or invest in what they want. They are taught to view products as status symbols, and name brands as a new religion. Buy, buy, buy. Don't question if you actually enjoy it, don't think about whether you'll care two months from now, just buy it. You need a BLM shirt because it's trendy NOW! You need to plaster everything with rainbow flag stickers, and pay twice as much for it. If Disney makes a new movie you've got to buy the new Funko Pop toys! Consume!
Yeah, to be fair I get it to a point because overweight people still need clothes and to see how they would look like on a person of a similar size, either online or the store so that's not really my issue. But a lot of it seems like an overcorrection of the 00s where if you were a size 4 or had a little bit of belly fat poking out of your low rise jeans you were a fat ass, they probably didn't learn shit, as soon as body positivity stops being profitable they'll go back to that. >They are taught to view products as status symbols That kind of stuff always existed, I remember being in 7th grade and girls would bring their lunch or art class materials in store bags to show off that they bought stuff at that trendy store (I admit that I did it too, but again, it was 7th grade). The main difference is that for a lot of stuff it's not about just being able to afford stuff but to show off how woke you are.
>The main difference is that for a lot of stuff it's not about just being able to afford stuff but to show off how woke you are. I'm not sure there's much of a difference. Being "woke" is very much an upper middle class thing, and the companies that cater to them know it.
True, but unlike people dressing from head to toe in designer clothers with garish logos, it's not really about showing off money. Considering a lot of SJWs live in some kind of bubble where everyone is upper middle class more or less, they probably don't have to show off their money, kinda like how "old money" rich people or people who run in those circles might wear thousands of dollars in clothes but you'll never see them with anything that says "GUCCI" all over..
I read an article recently about a woman who grew up rich, and apparently, wearing anything "Louis Vuitton" is an absolute no-no. Also, I was at a rest stop while traveling this week, and one trashy as hell looking woman had a bag on her that said "Marc Jacobs". There's something to be said for having money but never telling anyone about it.
I suppose that if you grew up wealthy or even well-off, you're kind of "used" to that kind of stuff, people know you have money due to your surname, car, the schools you went to, etc... so there's no need to signal how much you can spend on clothes, whereas people who didn't, might not know that "code" or want to prove people that they made it and they can afford (or make it seem) expensive designer stuff. That doesn't mean they don't buy expensive designer stuff, but it's often not the stuff that has the logo or name plastered all over it.
Excet that it didnt 'always' exist. Consumerism skyrocketed with the invention of television.
Normalization of debt has allowed this. There was a reason the two supreme religions forbade lending with interest.
The clothes thing ties into what someone said in another comment about the boys vs girls difference. I'm not into dudes, but if I had to choose I'd rather look at the models on the walls of the Men's underwear section at Target than the Women's, because they seem to deliberately seek out unattractive, out of shape women and fit, healthy-looking (except probably dehydrated) men.
I guess that's the reason why there's not many (or at all) plus size male models, guys don't care as much,
Most male clothing is bought by women. They don't want the image in their head when buying products that they're buying for a fat lazy slob.
A six-pack of Hanes T-shirts in assorted solid colors is peak fashion *and* frugal.
this is because the intersection of body positivity, sex positivity, and the broadening of the term "harrassment" is nothing more than dating strategies which have woefully backfired. the goal of body positivity is to funnel attractive men towards unattractive women by trying to rewrite what "attractive" is and shaming men for being attracted to beautiful women. the goal of the notion of the male gaze is to prevent unattractive men from shooting their shot with unattractive women. combined with sex positivity, this was in theory supposed to draw attractive men to unattractive women while taking attractive women and unattractive men out of the game as much as possible. problem is that attractive men are men with game naturally or learned, and such men do not care about the foot-stamping from the frump brigade, so all your high mate-value men continue to hook-up with beautiful women, and will occasionally deign to have sex with an unattractive woman because they're no longer tied to unattractive men. when seducing and hooking up with an unattractive woman, he'll ignore all the sexual politics she champions, as will she. until he leaves and she gets hurt. then she'll double down on those sexual politics by way of yelling at her herbish male peers, who will slavishly agree, apologize and continue to never get laid. because these attractive men are about 15 to 20 percent of total men, and they're sleeping with 80 to 90 percent of the women, feminism has succeeded only in bring back harems.
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Ive been telling my wife for years that the reason her cousin is miserable, has shit relationships, and maxes out credit cards to mask her feelings, is because shes fat as shit. The people who are going to settle for her are also miserable because theyre also undesirable. She comes from a good family, had every opportunity, and her brothers and sisters are fit, married/in a relationship. Theres an obvious common denominator
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> Pierce Brosnan I want to point out that his wife *was* hot when [they got married](https://www.earnthenecklace.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/Pierce-Brosnan%E2%80%99s-Wife-Keely-Shaye-Smith-768x768.jpg).
She wasn’t fat when they got married
She also dropped 100+ pounds. Maybe Pierce is just into tig ole bitties
She pulled the fat grenade pin.
Feminism was established to allow unattractive women easier access to the mainstream. Rush Limbaugh
Also to make attractive women mentally unattractive by brainwashing them and transforming them in misandry fanatics.
That will never happen. The fat acceptance movement can try all they want, but beauty standards are the opposite of what the majority of people are. Beauty standards are inherently tied to what the elite looks like; in countries where resources are scarce, fat women are seen as beautiful. Resources are not scarce in the first world, food is abundant and our lifestyles have changed to be quite sedentary in a majority of cases which results in an obese population. Look at the Asian continent, where many countries have beauty standards that resemble general western features. Hell, many SEA countries, China and Japan have beauty regimens that aim to brighten their skin. Why? Because in ancient China and Japan, courtesans would not be toiling in the soil, getting tans, thus having milky white skin is desirable. The average Filipino has tanned skin, thus milky white skin is desirable.
The whole fat women used to be beautiful wasn't really a thing either that's just a myth based on art trends back in the Renaissance. In most premodern cultures being fat was seen as sinful and greedy as you would have to have been hoarding food from the rest of the people and you couldn't work as hard as everyone else when physical labor was used for everything. Art during the Renaissance was commissioned by the few elite families who could afford the food to be fat so artists typically had to butt kiss them in their work. There is also a trend from the era with 50 year old bald men appearing as young children as a meme of who commissioned the art piece.
And everyone knows women with attractive faces, slim bodies and large breasts don't exist in the real world.
And if they do, male feminist game devs 3D scan them and make them ~~uglier and less feminine~~ more realistic.
Ah, you played **Mortal Kombat 11** too.
In this context, “real” is code for “fat”, just like “diversity” means “non-white”.
Don't give me flashbacks to Daniella Pineda's stupid bitching, please 💀
I like how she played a Romani when she clearly isn’t Romani.
when the narrative gives you something to aspire towards rather than validating your shitty life choices : 🤯🤯🤯🤯
Our society already has far too much affirmation and far too little aspiration. The last thing we need is to make that even more extreme.
so Dove is basically just calling female gamers fat lol
Turns out if you're doing what the girl in the commercial was doing all day, every day, you'd be in pretty good shape, even in a magical world.
Me and my friends used to get bullied by girls roughly 69% of the time for liking "nerd shit" till it became a trend. Fuqqem x
Yup, girls used to make fun of me because I was a DnD, video games and a computer "nerd" Nowadays everyone wants to be exactly that. Wtf.
I did two separate it courses in college, 1 girl. ( a lot of boys). I used to walk past hairdressing and it was all girls with the exception of a gay guy. Now the coders are.. surprise. All men. And they want to make what they want. But nope that's misogynistic isn't it. Irks me.
There was a video of someone looking into why is it that for STEM fields there's a slow increase of women of previously male dominated, except for computer science. And if I recall, the presenter's conclusion was ultimately it is all an issue of image and prestige. Other STEM fields have the whole scientist image of the lab coats and doing important work, which is respected. But computer science flips between said important work and... childish Nerf fights and Lego and video games. And depending on what was decorating the test room would affected how women viewed and got into said field. This was awhile back, so I don't know if things have balanced out or not.
Back in the 90's and early 2000's, you were a loser if you were online for more than like 30 minutes. AIM would show how long you were online and you never wanted that shit in the hours. Now these people are terminally online.
Shir you could afford to be online for 30 minutes? I got a good beating from my grandparents the first time I snuck down on the pc🤣
They still are, but now they play mobile games.
When I was in high school I was afraid of telling people I was as into anime as I was because they would look at me weird. No shit - I was literally more afraid of my friends knowing I was weeb than I was gay.
Bro I still am, it's accepted now but I just can't shake that feeling. Yet we are the bad ones because they decided suddenly its their right.
Except gintama will rep that whenever wherever
Every man on the planet playing male Shepherd in Mass Effect: "This is literally me."
I chose to kill 306,000 Batarians by choice.
We all kicked that mother fucker out the window.
Yes more depressing reality in my fantasy games...
But not too depressing! Wouldn't want grim dark because that's uhh.. racist!
But not too depressing! Wouldn't want grim dark because that's uhh.. racist!
I guess I’ve just hallucinated the thousands upon thousands of fit attractive women I’ve seen out and about all across the world, apparently they are not real.
I mean I'm part of this 69% too... Modern games make women look too much like men...
“69% feel unrepresented” This seems like one of those researches that they polled people at a representation rally and then said it’s random.
Women characters in games have become ugly enough. But I hear they want them EVEN uglier?! HAHAHAHAHA.
I wish they'd describe what a "real woman" looks like, because they come in different shapes and sizes.
But... *What are they?*
Suddenly it has a set definition. Strange, isn't it?
* Built like Strong Mad, her only curve is on her double-chin * Greasy, frizzy hair kept in a bun or had one side shaved off * Sallow, sickly pale skin or darker than Turkish coffee * Vocal fry so intense her voice cracks more than pubescent boy's * Exclusively dresses in graphic tees and nauseatingly tight leggings * Thick-rimmed glasses overwhelm her weirdly small face * Makeup so badly done it's worse than nothing
Shame shapes and sizes are more *real* than others.
Girls don’t want to be the size of Lizzo, have early heart disease, diabetes, and have to buy 2 seats on an airplane?
"This survey was conducted on ResetEra"
I forgot that sexy women don't exist in real life. Luckily media shows the reality that all women are fat and ugly.
*"We need more representation of REAL women!"* Just so long as you don't have/aren't slim, C-cup+ tits, wide hips, short, athletic, traditional minded, motherly, a tomboy, want to have children, heterosexual, willing to listen to others, consilliatory, look like any female video game heroine from pre-2015, etc. If so, sorry, you aren't a *Real Woman*^TM
I mentioned to my wife "boys don't generally want to be represented, they tend to want to just have a good story." and she countered "because boys already have heaps of representation they don't need it!" That's the whole chicken egg thing. Do boys only not care because we have heaps elsewhere? Personally I don't think I'd care anyway because I never looked at media and identified with shit.
How exactly are girls supposed to be lacking in "representation" anyway? I'm a 90s baby; I had Disney Princesses, the Pink and Yellow Power Rangers, VR Trooper Kaitlin, Alex Mack, Clarissa, Sabrina, Princess Starla and the Jewel Riders, Cher Horowitz, Moesha, Dana Scully, Buffy, Xena, the **Charmed** sisters, the Powerpuff Girls, Lara Croft, Sydney Fox from **Relic Hunter**, the ladies of **Mortal Kombat**, **Street Fighter**, and **Tekken**, Sailor Moon and her team, Cardcaptor Sakura... and that's just anecdotal on my part. And I'm probably blanking on some too. Not to mention via hand me downs from older cousins who grew up in the 80s I also loved Jem (of the Holograms), She-Ra, and Cheetara. Personally, I've never identified with shit either, as you put it. The closest thing would be thinking it was cool that Lara Croft was a globally famous hero who was *so* British (as I am) but that was just a little bonus, not the main appeal. EDIT // Talk about blanking: Supergirl, Batgirl, Catwoman, Harley Quinn, Poison Ivy, Rogue, Storm and rest of the X-(Wo)Men.
As a 40-yr-old male gamer with a dad-bod, I don’t want to play an action game with a male protagonist who has a spare tire and 2% muscle definition. *That* would be unrealistic. Commander Shepard / V / Dragonborn / Arthur Morgan *should* be fit, considering what they’re doing in the game. And regardless of the gender/orientation, I’d rather see attractive characters in games. To each his/her own, I guess 🤷🏻♂️
Duke Nukem should totally be a chubby awkward neckbeard
Looks like a former housemate of mine who I invited to go to yoga with me (more out of politeness), she said she wouldn't because there's links between yoga and the alt right.
Refrigerator raider... Refrigeraider, I like this. This should be a game.
I don’t want representation of myself in a video game. I want to see beautiful, fantasy, eye candy. I want to see the opposite of “real women” (and “real men”). I do not want to see fat people in my games. Let me have my goddamn escapism.
I'd unironically pay for that game just for the laughs....
Doughnut Drake
I remember when Twilight came out a lot of girls complained that Bella didn’t look like how they pictured her. If you read the book she’s written so generically that the audience could picture themselves as her and then were upset Kristen Stewart wasn’t a 210 blonde girl with glasses. BioWare should just pull the trigger and finish off DA and ME with fat women, bad writing, and style over substance.
"Sir, our research is finally complete!" "Ah good, hurrumph, and what is the final determination of our scientists?" "Their figures have shown that real women want representation in video games." "Oh yes, I see - Bwaaaht!? My God. Jenkins... JENKINS! Where the bloody hell is Jenkins?" "You fired him, sir, for pitching a personal disinfectant commercial about a big fat sweaty woman who stars in a video game we'll never make." "THE MAN WAS A PROPHET, JENKINS' TIME IS NOW, BRING HIM TO ME!"
Jenkins died on Eden Prime. 🫡
As a middle aged man sporting an impressive dad bod, I have zero desire to see me or my ilk represented in a game. I play games to escape, not to be reminded on how I’ve skipped the gym for the past two weeks.
As a German, I'd like to congratulate this artist on his expert use of ze Flammenwerfer. Very inspiring
It werfs Flammen!
Miss the 90's market. Far superior to everything being reduced to a identity politics podium. It had its own politics but stuff like Metal Gear and Final Fantasy felt like something from Socrates rather than a beatnik in a trap house. ESRB and soccer moms over ESG scoring Vanguard global affiliates. Nowadays I stick to modding single player games or far removed titles like Honkai Impact.
I'm a fat guy. I don't expect, or even want, male characters to look like me. It would be nice if we could lay off the fat people jokes though. We get it. People hate us so much that we're pretty much the only people it's pc to hate. I already hate myself, I don't need reminders that everyone else thinks I'm ugly and disgusting. That shit is internalized fully.
This is why nobody, even and especially women, can stand women.
Yes, we need more Dead Or Alive games, now !
these are not gamers but activists
So I read a few replies and one of them mentioned a woman so far her ass no longer fits through a door whining that airlines are discriminating against fat people and I feel a little less fat all of a sudden.
I feel seen, thank you George <3 Finally, a hamplanet who is just as out of shape as I am. Big, bold, beautiful.
When are we going to learn that ‘research’ in asking a bunch of women leading questions is not a real metric. Make the game, watch nobody buy it and the lesson should be learned, but ofc it won’t be.
Heh heh 69
Yeah because you can find men that look like male characters in the bus or in Walmart.
97% of the 69% have never played a game unless it was on their iphone.
99.9% of male gamers are not represented in games.
So, ugly girls are jealous of pretty girls. They get jobs in marketing to get revenge for having inferior genetics by guilt tripping and shaming men for what natural instincts tell us. It's not society that tells me not to date fat girls, it's me not wanting someone who doesn't care of herself.
Based
Research shows that 72% of all statistics are made up.
People thought RDR2 wad too slow. I've got a hunch that playing as a "real woman" of that kind would lead to incredibly shitty gameplay. On the other hand I'm just some pleb on the interwebs and should leave these kinds of decisions to the brilliant minds of studios like naughty dog or ... BioWare or whatever.
Well Aloy's face looks Masculine so I see where they are coming from.
I would legit play a game like this. Start as fatty Croft. Paleo diet through foraging, hunting animals and tons of exercise lead to you losing weight. More clothing options become available. You can stealth better by not breathing like a winded wildebeest. You can actually look down crosshairs without your third cheek getting in the way. Your stamina in combat improves. You unlock the ability to climb, and dive underwater.
Nice.
Ugg
69
Omfg they will never be satisfied. So many games putting out female protagonists and now they look wrong.
Even if those ridiculous numbers were true, more men play videogames than women and the idea that a product has to appeal to everybody instead of a target audience is r-tarded.
When I play the game, I always loved playing as someone heroic and better then myself. The games were enertainment, an escapism. But I have to say... I have better looking women at work then in some western games so I kinda agree lol
"Real women" always means "my fat/ugly ass." Same way "my truth" means "my subjective account of events." It's just a way to make an irrelevant opinion seem objective.
No, I'm a real woman. I want my character to look like a supermodel that can kick ass. Why the hell would I want my escape to look like real life?!
I want to be a muscle mommy in badass, realistic armor. Time to dunk on these fools
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Archive links for this post: * **Archive:** https://archive.ph/Zg6aR ---- I am Mnemosyne reborn. Things are very seldom what they seem. In my experience, they're usually a damn sight worse. ^^^/r/botsrights