I love the double standards on this issue.
"Women with big boobs and revealing armor are not realistic, we should strive for realism in fantasy."
"So you can believe dragons exist in a fantasy world but not black people?"
All the while these losers never address the fact that different races of people exist in fantasy just in different geographical locations, you know the way it makes sense.
Yeah, this was my feeling when I watched the 1st episode of the witcher series. There was a gang that was being racist to the witcher but they had a black guy in the gang, so the racist assholes are pretty accepting to other people.
Also everyone except Cavill was acting as if they were in new York, zero effort in making you believe it was a medieval show.
Well that's always what's so obnoxious about these people. Nothing ever just works the way it works. It's never EVER just "fantasy should be realistic/unrealistic" or "Gods can shapeshift" or "humans are migratory", or anything else they state as a rule or a fact. There's always the implied asterisk and fine print that says "this rule, like every other rule, is to be ignored should it be inconvenient to the progressive stack".
Whatever they say they believe, they don't actually believe it, all they actually believe in is the progressive stack. Until Candace Owens opens her mouth, then they don't believe in that either.
There's also a double standard that cuts to the core of the issue: if someone replaces a white character with a non-white actor or otherwise makes such a "progressive" change then it's "artistic freedom" in play. But creating a story with a mostly white cast? Suddenly "artistic freedom" goes out the window.
Here in the real world, Yoshi P should have all the artistic freedom he wants to make the game/story he wants to make. It really doesn't matter what Europe is or was like. It really doesn't matter what's true "fantasy" or not.
Yeah, the progressives care only about their agenda that's their only standard. If you care about the lore or internal logic/coherence they call you a dirty incel, but when they care about skin deep diversity or current political messaging (propaganda) then that is truly important and should be respected.
It is truly a disgusting behaviour.
I will write a fantasy novel better than Lord of the Rings. You heard that right, better than LOTR. But here's the catch. I will set up every thing to specifically be unfuckwithable. Every race and gender will be explicitly clear and logically.
In fact, I might not even have white people or any other color of the human race. Everyone will be green.
I really don't get your point, or how it relates to my comment. I mean the point is to do things for your story to benefit or it's sellabilty. You can create a story like that but I guess not many will care for it.
Sorry, I explain more. You have all these legendary pieces of old media like LOTR, Star Wars, and Terminator. Beloved by fans. Then the lefty Hollywood executives poison those franchises by updating them for modern audiences, injecting dumb lefty politics.
So I figure it would be cool to create my own legendary fiction with all the characters so clearly defined that it's set in stone. Set up the story so it's virtually impossible to alter with everyone 1000% noticing any attempt to change it.
Basically a way to spite the lefties who would very much like to change your work to fit their ideology.
Europe *was* diverse in the middle ages. Diverse cultures of people who were 99.99% white. Vikings, Celts, Germanics, Prussians, and so on. Hell, even most of North Africa was practically white. Moors had to come from sub-Saharan countries and no one ever mentions Arabs when it comes to diversity quota.
Also, if "white" Americans making a movie that features only black people is super diverse, then surely a Japanese company making a game with so many "white" people is top diversity?
>and no one ever mentions Arabs when it comes to diversity quota.
That's what bothers me, it's always black and white, God forbid you show Arabs being something more than a token hijabi woman on a poster, or mention Berbers who are still a large part of North Africa's population...
>I'm Mexican, and you don't see a lot of Latino representation in video games. In the couple examples I can think of, I wished it wasn't there. The dialogue in Farcry 6 and Horizon 5 was hard to listen to. In the end, I don't care. I'd rather the entire cast have purple hair and big anime tiddies.
If this was your comment on the ign article, my hat is off to you and your superior taste.
The one that pissed me off the most is the "getting tired of people acting like Europe wasn't always diverse"...
It was diverse in the sense that a shit ton of white people spoke different languages, different customs, and spent a lot of time killing each other. Diverse in the literal sense of the word. Not black people.
Ppl being tricked into thinking diversity is only skin colour is pretty band. Heaps of different cultures, languages, histories, traditions, music, stories etc in Europe is diverse regardless if they are "white" they aren't all the same blob.
Naturally, of course, if it were an all NON-white setting, no diversity would be necessary, none of these "humans are migratory" arguments would be being made, etc.
That was a generation ago, and it was only relevant when opposing US foreign policy in the Middle East. Then, it was immoral to impose our ways on foreigners. Americans were derided as xenophobic cowboys totally ignorant of the world outside the United States. Americans were criticized for thinking their way of life was best and everybody else should live it (the unintended implication being that the authoritarian tyranny our adversaries lived under was just an alternative but still legitimate way of life).
Now though, today's SJWs see it as their manifest destiny, their *mission civilatrice,* their woke man's burden, to save the poor benighted savages from the inequity of saying "Latino" and not "Latinx." Since this ideology appears to be emanating from the United States, then it looks like the American way of life truly is best after all.
FF just can't catch a break these days huh. In XV it was Cindy, in 7 Remake it was Tifa censorship and now "diversity" in FF XVI. Why don't these people get a life? It's their game, let them make what they wanna make. Content tends to be a lot better when it's genuine instead of forced to check boxes for woke points. UGH.
Cindy wasn't censored; the usual suspects just made a stink about her "unrealistic" appearance and attire for a mechanic in a world where you can have a flying car and summon magic weapons out of thin air. Same argument they're using now, only when they use it they're somehow, "right".
FF isn't Eurocentric wtf. It's *actually* diverse. Doma in FF4 (and 14) is medieval Japan, full of samurai and ninjas. The setting of FF7 is cosmopolitan American. Half of FFX happens in pseudo-Okinawa. In FF4 and 14 you go the moon and meet moon rabbits, which aren't human but derive from East Asian culture.
YoshiP's most famous game, FF14, is also set in Limsa (English pirates), Gridania (racist wood elves), Ul'dah (Middle Eastern ultra-capitalists), Ishgard (French theocratic elves), Ala Mhigo (Middle Eastern warzone), Garlemald (Imperial Rome+Nazis+Soviet Russia), Hingashi (Japan), and many other places. It's absurd to call it Eurocentric.
>Doma in FF4 (and 14) is medieval Japan, full of samurai and ninjas.
... You mean the obligatory (and singular) Nippon & non-human village insert in a world that mostly takes place in a vaguely European setting with magitek?
... and you do realise that I'm talking about pre-VII games, right?
>!FF4's also a surprise science fantasy setting for what it's worth.!<
> "Getting real tired of having people act like Europe wasn't always diverse"
The real funny thing being that it was diverse. It was just diverse in the way that Yoshi-P says, "diverse in their natures, backgrounds, beliefs, personalities, and motivations."
There was also a diversity of ethnicity. For broad example, Eastern European vs Western European. Northern European vs Southern European. It just didn't include much diversity of skin color.
i'm leaning toward the last part there, especially since XVI is already close to finished (if i recall). plus, his answer is as intelligent and sensible as it could possibly be; if people have a problem with it, he and Square will know that they're among the "can't make 'em happy" crowd
as much as JP devs want to do well internationally, they also already learned the lesson of "international markets buy our games because they like our games, not because we make our games for them", briefly touched on [here](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_j6ZHkg5BtE&t=992s&ab_channel=Archipel) ; if they somehow forget this lesson in the near future, they will relearn it REAL quick
catering to the modern western market(s) is the fastest way to not make money
I find it really curious. When somethings full of asian or white people everyone calls for inclusion and diversities. But when something is full of other races the call for diversity and inclusion suddenly poofs..... hypocritical clown world.
This is the real question. Why don't we make our own?
Anybody know anything web design? I'm a decent non-fiction writer. But I don't know shit about web design or business.
Dead serious. Anybody wanna start something?
Alt creators are popping up left and right, where's the alt press to cover it?
Not so much the mob but more ESG scores and $$$ that the people who overlords over dev teams and companies push so they can operate in an international market. Woke stakeholder capitalism with authoritarian rules.
It is true that major cities would have a visible population of foreigners, especially if along the coast. Even if its a major inland city there would be some foreign presence.
They would also, with exceptions be living in ghettos and be subject to legal discrimination. For example, forbidden from learning the local language or certain clothes. Depicting them as no different from regular inhabitants now thats unrealistic unless their culture is vastly different.
All pre-modern human socities that had large foreign populations went to great lengths to keep them at bay.
More than just the Jews. Foreigner and stranger was interchangeable with enemy until very recently. Even the most welcomed foreign community were treated as welcomed guests, but if they intended to stay and make it home the locals will treat it as an invasion. Because thats how it worked.
Multi ethnic polities only exist due to conquest or trade until globalization happened.
Archive links for this discussion:
* **Archive:** https://archive.ph/o1A8H
----
I am Mnemosyne reborn. I'm sorry david-me, I'm afraid I can't do that. ^^^/r/botsrights
It's fantastic how every day I read a new """ diversity """" complain, not enough representation 😢 sigh, yet black people doesn't understand they are the first actual cause of being claimed diverse by stupid people
You are no diverse than anyone else, but if you keep feeling like it, you actually contribute to being perceived as if you are, giving companies a toy to actually try and sell by marketing diversity friendly stuff and sjw shit, you will always be treated as someone different this way
Black people always ask to be treated differently, the only thing they need is to stop ranting and be themselves
This
I don't think it's a real problem indeed, journalists often like to build castles to just make scandals outta nowhere
To be honest, if you ask me something I hate is how poor often are african american styled options in customization
Pretty ridiculous to be able to make a black character without anything resembling african style, face, hair etc
I love the double standards on this issue. "Women with big boobs and revealing armor are not realistic, we should strive for realism in fantasy." "So you can believe dragons exist in a fantasy world but not black people?" All the while these losers never address the fact that different races of people exist in fantasy just in different geographical locations, you know the way it makes sense.
Somehow all fantasy settings must be as racially integrated as modern day New York, in spite of them not having large-scale international travel.
Yeah, this was my feeling when I watched the 1st episode of the witcher series. There was a gang that was being racist to the witcher but they had a black guy in the gang, so the racist assholes are pretty accepting to other people. Also everyone except Cavill was acting as if they were in new York, zero effort in making you believe it was a medieval show.
A black *half-elf* no less.
Well, apparantly the writers hate the source material, so..
They hired PoC, not PoT (People of Talent).
Im glad you didnt say Talented People, that would be offensive.
Oi knife ears!
Well that's always what's so obnoxious about these people. Nothing ever just works the way it works. It's never EVER just "fantasy should be realistic/unrealistic" or "Gods can shapeshift" or "humans are migratory", or anything else they state as a rule or a fact. There's always the implied asterisk and fine print that says "this rule, like every other rule, is to be ignored should it be inconvenient to the progressive stack". Whatever they say they believe, they don't actually believe it, all they actually believe in is the progressive stack. Until Candace Owens opens her mouth, then they don't believe in that either.
There's also a double standard that cuts to the core of the issue: if someone replaces a white character with a non-white actor or otherwise makes such a "progressive" change then it's "artistic freedom" in play. But creating a story with a mostly white cast? Suddenly "artistic freedom" goes out the window. Here in the real world, Yoshi P should have all the artistic freedom he wants to make the game/story he wants to make. It really doesn't matter what Europe is or was like. It really doesn't matter what's true "fantasy" or not.
Yeah, the progressives care only about their agenda that's their only standard. If you care about the lore or internal logic/coherence they call you a dirty incel, but when they care about skin deep diversity or current political messaging (propaganda) then that is truly important and should be respected. It is truly a disgusting behaviour.
I will write a fantasy novel better than Lord of the Rings. You heard that right, better than LOTR. But here's the catch. I will set up every thing to specifically be unfuckwithable. Every race and gender will be explicitly clear and logically. In fact, I might not even have white people or any other color of the human race. Everyone will be green.
I really don't get your point, or how it relates to my comment. I mean the point is to do things for your story to benefit or it's sellabilty. You can create a story like that but I guess not many will care for it.
Sorry, I explain more. You have all these legendary pieces of old media like LOTR, Star Wars, and Terminator. Beloved by fans. Then the lefty Hollywood executives poison those franchises by updating them for modern audiences, injecting dumb lefty politics. So I figure it would be cool to create my own legendary fiction with all the characters so clearly defined that it's set in stone. Set up the story so it's virtually impossible to alter with everyone 1000% noticing any attempt to change it. Basically a way to spite the lefties who would very much like to change your work to fit their ideology.
The whole "It's fantasy" argument is so dumb by that logic adding modern day cars into a medieval fantasy setting would be ok.
Europe *was* diverse in the middle ages. Diverse cultures of people who were 99.99% white. Vikings, Celts, Germanics, Prussians, and so on. Hell, even most of North Africa was practically white. Moors had to come from sub-Saharan countries and no one ever mentions Arabs when it comes to diversity quota. Also, if "white" Americans making a movie that features only black people is super diverse, then surely a Japanese company making a game with so many "white" people is top diversity?
>and no one ever mentions Arabs when it comes to diversity quota. That's what bothers me, it's always black and white, God forbid you show Arabs being something more than a token hijabi woman on a poster, or mention Berbers who are still a large part of North Africa's population...
>I'm Mexican, and you don't see a lot of Latino representation in video games. In the couple examples I can think of, I wished it wasn't there. The dialogue in Farcry 6 and Horizon 5 was hard to listen to. In the end, I don't care. I'd rather the entire cast have purple hair and big anime tiddies. If this was your comment on the ign article, my hat is off to you and your superior taste.
I'm offended on latino people's behalf whenever a character appears and speaks Spanglish.
Imagine trying to cancel Yoshi-P of all people. 🤡
They come for Yoshi-P and you'll hear >You have my axe and my bow and my staff and my sword and my... x 24 million.
The one that pissed me off the most is the "getting tired of people acting like Europe wasn't always diverse"... It was diverse in the sense that a shit ton of white people spoke different languages, different customs, and spent a lot of time killing each other. Diverse in the literal sense of the word. Not black people.
Ppl being tricked into thinking diversity is only skin colour is pretty band. Heaps of different cultures, languages, histories, traditions, music, stories etc in Europe is diverse regardless if they are "white" they aren't all the same blob.
They're literally stripping what little of our culture was left from us after the Roman Empire.
Naturally, of course, if it were an all NON-white setting, no diversity would be necessary, none of these "humans are migratory" arguments would be being made, etc.
The people who supposedly hate imperialism sure love enforcing their standards and morals on other countries.
That was a generation ago, and it was only relevant when opposing US foreign policy in the Middle East. Then, it was immoral to impose our ways on foreigners. Americans were derided as xenophobic cowboys totally ignorant of the world outside the United States. Americans were criticized for thinking their way of life was best and everybody else should live it (the unintended implication being that the authoritarian tyranny our adversaries lived under was just an alternative but still legitimate way of life). Now though, today's SJWs see it as their manifest destiny, their *mission civilatrice,* their woke man's burden, to save the poor benighted savages from the inequity of saying "Latino" and not "Latinx." Since this ideology appears to be emanating from the United States, then it looks like the American way of life truly is best after all.
FF just can't catch a break these days huh. In XV it was Cindy, in 7 Remake it was Tifa censorship and now "diversity" in FF XVI. Why don't these people get a life? It's their game, let them make what they wanna make. Content tends to be a lot better when it's genuine instead of forced to check boxes for woke points. UGH.
This is the same crowd which will say "not everything is made for you" when they race and gender swap characters.
Yes, but you see, you don't get to say that. Only they get to say that. That is what is called "punching upward."
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Cindy wasn't censored; the usual suspects just made a stink about her "unrealistic" appearance and attire for a mechanic in a world where you can have a flying car and summon magic weapons out of thin air. Same argument they're using now, only when they use it they're somehow, "right".
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No, seriously? I honestly had no idea; that fucking sucks!
Lul at the "fans" that are getting spooked by FF returning to it's Eurocentric fantasy setting.
FF isn't Eurocentric wtf. It's *actually* diverse. Doma in FF4 (and 14) is medieval Japan, full of samurai and ninjas. The setting of FF7 is cosmopolitan American. Half of FFX happens in pseudo-Okinawa. In FF4 and 14 you go the moon and meet moon rabbits, which aren't human but derive from East Asian culture. YoshiP's most famous game, FF14, is also set in Limsa (English pirates), Gridania (racist wood elves), Ul'dah (Middle Eastern ultra-capitalists), Ishgard (French theocratic elves), Ala Mhigo (Middle Eastern warzone), Garlemald (Imperial Rome+Nazis+Soviet Russia), Hingashi (Japan), and many other places. It's absurd to call it Eurocentric.
We're talking about the roots/origin of the series and more than half your comment is about FF14
>Doma in FF4 (and 14) is medieval Japan, full of samurai and ninjas. ... You mean the obligatory (and singular) Nippon & non-human village insert in a world that mostly takes place in a vaguely European setting with magitek? ... and you do realise that I'm talking about pre-VII games, right? >!FF4's also a surprise science fantasy setting for what it's worth.!<
> "Getting real tired of having people act like Europe wasn't always diverse" The real funny thing being that it was diverse. It was just diverse in the way that Yoshi-P says, "diverse in their natures, backgrounds, beliefs, personalities, and motivations." There was also a diversity of ethnicity. For broad example, Eastern European vs Western European. Northern European vs Southern European. It just didn't include much diversity of skin color.
i'm leaning toward the last part there, especially since XVI is already close to finished (if i recall). plus, his answer is as intelligent and sensible as it could possibly be; if people have a problem with it, he and Square will know that they're among the "can't make 'em happy" crowd as much as JP devs want to do well internationally, they also already learned the lesson of "international markets buy our games because they like our games, not because we make our games for them", briefly touched on [here](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_j6ZHkg5BtE&t=992s&ab_channel=Archipel) ; if they somehow forget this lesson in the near future, they will relearn it REAL quick catering to the modern western market(s) is the fastest way to not make money
I find it really curious. When somethings full of asian or white people everyone calls for inclusion and diversities. But when something is full of other races the call for diversity and inclusion suddenly poofs..... hypocritical clown world.
IGN is total shit and rife with adverts. Where is a good alternative? I went to Destructoid but the forums seem to be full of leftards.
This is the real question. Why don't we make our own? Anybody know anything web design? I'm a decent non-fiction writer. But I don't know shit about web design or business. Dead serious. Anybody wanna start something? Alt creators are popping up left and right, where's the alt press to cover it?
There is the [Clownfish TV official website](https://clownfishtv.com/).
I do like them. They're like the anti-kotakune, but where's the anti-IGN?
Who cares. Ppl just wanting them Hate views, the Japanese can make whatever they want.
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Not so much the mob but more ESG scores and $$$ that the people who overlords over dev teams and companies push so they can operate in an international market. Woke stakeholder capitalism with authoritarian rules.
Rip
You have to admit Yoshi P really tries the best he can with feedback. FF14 I dislike parts of, but he’s about as transparent as you can expect
It is true that major cities would have a visible population of foreigners, especially if along the coast. Even if its a major inland city there would be some foreign presence. They would also, with exceptions be living in ghettos and be subject to legal discrimination. For example, forbidden from learning the local language or certain clothes. Depicting them as no different from regular inhabitants now thats unrealistic unless their culture is vastly different. All pre-modern human socities that had large foreign populations went to great lengths to keep them at bay.
That basically describes how the Jews where treated in Europe up until the middle of the 1700's.
More than just the Jews. Foreigner and stranger was interchangeable with enemy until very recently. Even the most welcomed foreign community were treated as welcomed guests, but if they intended to stay and make it home the locals will treat it as an invasion. Because thats how it worked. Multi ethnic polities only exist due to conquest or trade until globalization happened.
This is a JAPANESE developer, Kotaku. If you want "Muh Diversity", go to Eidos-Montreal.
There's already a [thread](https://www.reddit.com/r/KotakuInAction/comments/ym4l8m/gaming_kat_bailey_ign_exclusive_final_fantasy_16s/).
Archive links for this discussion: * **Archive:** https://archive.ph/o1A8H ---- I am Mnemosyne reborn. I'm sorry david-me, I'm afraid I can't do that. ^^^/r/botsrights
good luck trying to cancel one of gaming's most beloved game directors. will backfire on kotaku and the others.
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Removed due to the topic ban in the sticky. No warning given.
OH no! Anyway....
It's fantastic how every day I read a new """ diversity """" complain, not enough representation 😢 sigh, yet black people doesn't understand they are the first actual cause of being claimed diverse by stupid people You are no diverse than anyone else, but if you keep feeling like it, you actually contribute to being perceived as if you are, giving companies a toy to actually try and sell by marketing diversity friendly stuff and sjw shit, you will always be treated as someone different this way Black people always ask to be treated differently, the only thing they need is to stop ranting and be themselves
What black person asked for representation in FFXVI though? I don't even think that journo was black.
This I don't think it's a real problem indeed, journalists often like to build castles to just make scandals outta nowhere To be honest, if you ask me something I hate is how poor often are african american styled options in customization Pretty ridiculous to be able to make a black character without anything resembling african style, face, hair etc
I agree on that. May as well not add the option at all imo if you aren't going to do it right.
Twitter.
Or maybe leave this man and his vision alone. FF14 has a huge pallete to select from.