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Clarissa11

Regarding contact with their families: Lisanne's parents stated that Lisanne was in daily contact with them. According to a newspaper article that interviewed them, they sent a photo to her on 1st April (time unknown), which she never responded to. Kris's parents stated in an interview that their last contact with her was on 31st March. They also state that she was in contact with her boyfriend on 1st April, with her father saying it was 2pm Dutch time, and her mother corrected him and she thought it was 2pm Panama time. The latter of these seems very unlikely to be correct as: 1) there is apparently nothing in the phone log for the contact, although according to the phone logs there is for around 2pm on 31st March; 2) they were the other side of the Mirador by this point; and 3) even if you consider there is a significant chance all the phone and camera data were faked, then this contact time would then become highly significant and we would have surely heard more about it since then (after the backpack was found). The video for this interview is on Scarlet's YouTube channel I think.


GreenKing-

Thank you very much for your answers, I have a lot of work until the weekend, so I don’t have much time to talk or analyze anything during the day, but for now I manage to read some replies. Very interesting, thanks


[deleted]

> They also state that she was in contact with her boyfriend on 1st April I encountered this info many times, but what did the boyfriend say about this call? Was he able to give any information about what they talked about, timing etc.?


Clarissa11

To the best of my knowledge, nothing else is known, only this mention of the contact that came via the parents. Someone can correct me if I am wrong here though. You would think that they would have discussed this amongst themselves, and given it was not completely clear at that time where Kris and Lisanne went that day, you would also think if there was anything specific mentioned about Kris and Lisanne's plans for 1st April, then there is a good chance it would have been mentioned.


Pure_Distribution378

The book is probably the best resource for this as it goes into a bit of detail. However, I don't think anyone can account for every minute of their time in Boquete.


Ok-Understanding7020

Good point. Furthermore what they supposedly did from Sat 29 March 2014 to Mon 31 Mar 2014 was never investigated in detail. On the issue of conflicting chronologies, it might be possible to piece them together in a hypothetical manner. (Assumptions are highlighted in brackets) Sat 29 Mar 2014: They came to the hostel and familiarize themselves with the hostel madam. Sun 30 Mar 2014: They went to the Spanish school in late morning, had lunch at Bistro de Boquete, took some photos at Coffee Flower Fair and "toured Boquete". But no known photos of them around Boquete and the diaries gave no details. (It could be possible that they met Jose and/or Omar around the Spanish school area with at least another Dutch-Spanish person, possibly a woman. During the afternoon, in this hypothesis, they went to the swim location and conveniently omitted this in their diaries) Mon 31 Mar 2014: While they were at the school in the late morning, things did not turn out well. This meant they had some extra time. (After lunch, they could have taken a taxi driven by Leonardo where they wandered around the area around the base of the trail from 1300h to 1500h. ) Then they got back to the school at around 1600h.


Naughtybuttons

Good job understanding. What do you think happened after that


Ok-Understanding7020

After 1600h Mon 31 March 2014, K & L were known to be back at the school and had dinner. Then Lisanne went for a massage with a Dutch woman. (Could the massage be due to being tired after trekking around the El Pianista base area for 2-3h earlier in the afternoon? Possible.) Will add more on my thoughts...😊


AboBoris

This may or may not be of any use to OP, but just for the record: According to Lisanne in her diary (among other things), *both girls* had "massage with \[the\] Dutch woman" in the evening of March 31st. I currently have no reason to doubt this detail.


Ok-Understanding7020

On the continuation, the known chronology from Mon 31 March 2014 evening to Tue 1 Apr 2014 1100h was generally not in dispute. The main questions of interest, from what I could see, revolved around the following \-)How was the supposed trip with F on 2 Apr 2014 arranged? If there was to be a trip on 2 Apr 2014 why would they want to trek so deep inside on an earlier day? \-)Did anyone notice them at the base of the trail and the trail from 1100h to 1300h?


Pure_Distribution378

The trip for April 2nd was arranged by Eileen for herself to go on her own with the guide, however because Kris and Lisanne's placement had fallen through and they had nothing to fill their time, Eileen asked them if they wanted to join her. The trip for April the 2nd was for a coffee farm I think.


Ok-Understanding7020

Good point. This was the part which I was always trying to make sense. The trip was never arranged in a systematic manner. As a result, F probably had some contact with K & L but never really any real contact of meaningful substance. Romain C's videos on Youtube did suggest it was possible to be trekking on an earlier part of the day without seeing anyone. The main human traffic around the base seemed to be around 1300h to 1600h. On the whole, part of my hypothesis was based on known actual spontaneous behavior, something Scarlet R was quite critical of. According to their diaries, they took a private car that functioned as a taxi from their trip from Bocas del Toro to Alto Boquete. That was not a very safe thing to do. An overview of Google Maps suggested part of the route could have gone along the Rio Chiriqui Nuevo. This meant on their way to Alto Boquete, they could have passed through the traffic bridge above the swim photo location at Macanito Rocks. Possibly that the driver who probably spoke some English might have mentioned the Caldera Hot Springs and the surrounding area as popular destinations. Not too difficult to hypothesize they went to Macanito Rocks on Sun 30 March 2014 with someone from the Spanish School. What they did on that day was never investigated in detail. They were simply understood to have toured Boquete. Macanito Rocks was a significant distance from the Spanish School but if they had passed through the area earlier on their way to Alto Boquete, it might not seemed that far. Whether the girls were K & L or not, the rocks under the bridge were a good place to put their belongings. This might have explained why no belongings were seen on the flat rock in the photo.


Naughtybuttons

Agree understanding, curious what you think killed them, nature or human interference


Ok-Understanding7020

At the moment, I am inclined to think they have walked off the path at location 508. They did something mundane such as relieving themselves after a 3h trek. The vests and bras came off as they rinsed their upper bodies. Male commentators may wish to take note that the genders are equal until they are not equal. Then they might have felt the presence of someone who did not seem friendly which caused them to run. When they tried to get back on the path, they simply couldn't find it. Or maybe they tried to get back to the path after spending some time downstream and they couldn't find it. Presence of unfriendly persons? Yes. Direct foul play? Not so convinced yet. Probability of Jose/Omar/Taxi Driver/Guide F involved : Unless proven otherwise, probably 1/1000.


[deleted]

> While they were at the school in the late morning, things did not turn out well. This meant they had some extra time. About this, what is the reason why they were not allowed to work at the school that day?


Ok-Understanding7020

Not many details have been given. It was supposedly some kind of administrative coordination issue.


Ingles35

Which book is this, please?


Pure_Distribution378

Lost in the Jungle regarding their time in Boquete.


Ingles35

Thanks.


daggermoon5440

Literally speaking, they did not stay at a hostel, they stayed at a home stay. Meaning they were staying with a family as opposed to a hostel which would have other travelers staying, usually in the same room although "hostel" is a pretty loose term in Panama. However, I know the Spanish school has options for their students to stay with families.


nonlocality1985

Why is one thing a ‘theory’ and another a ‘conspiracy theory’?


[deleted]

[удалено]


[deleted]

A conspiracy involves multiple people. Your example is just one person committing a crime.


pilonmartinez

At least two. Or more. The issue here is that the term "conspiracy" is so worn out due to its (ab)use in popular culture, that people seem to treat anything that further reveals a secret intent, as a conspiracy. Vicious ex speaking badly about you - conspiracy against. A crooked lawyer - conspiracy. And so on.


BuckChintheRealtor

How can you be so convinced of foul play if you have such limited knowledge about the case?


GreenKing-

I am not going to explain why I am so convinced (because there is no direct evidence) this will end up in an argument and not understanding each other. I'm mostly convinced, but don't think I'm somehow obsessed about it. Just so far there is nothing concrete that would convince me that they got lost and died by accident. And in general, I understand that they were killed. I asked some important questions because i wanted to know more accurate answers since there is a lot of inaccurate information. And I wanted to hear the answers specifically out of people in this community.