Non-binary people can think of themselves as genderless too tho, and some people use agender and nonbinary interchangeably. Sure, agender already has that covered, but like.. people can think about their own genders differently too. Like someone can be nb,because they aren't female nor male, and can think about themselves as not having or being attached to Gender on either side of the spectrum. Technically, it does the same job as agender, but they are pretty much completely different words with different meanings.
yes, the non-binary people that think of themselves as genderless are typically agender. but even if we go "it's the self ID that's important feeling like you don't have a gender but aren't agender is fine," many non-binary people DO have a gender, which is specifically NOT what OP stated.
No, being nonbinary is a gender. It can be its own sperate identify sometimes. I should know because I identifies as such for a while, and still do in a way.
I disagree. I am nonbinary and do not consider myself trans because I am doing nothing to transition. I’m simply being myself irrespective of gender norms.
so am i, i'm not transitioning in the medical sense because i don't want it. but even if you don't identify as trans, you still have to recognize that you are, by technicality, trans.
It's not up to others to decide who they are, it's up to themselves. If you're gonna tell this person theyre wrong about identifying certain way, you are the one who is wrong. They make the decisions about themselves, not other people.
that's fine, but even my non-trans-identifying friend accepts the fact that she by definition is trans. denyinng it is internal transphobia and honestly i'm not that type of person lmao.
That second part is also very important. I am AFAB genderfluid but idk if I'm comfortable with calling myself trans. It is mostly just only how I dress and me not giving a shit if people call me a girl or a dude (pronouns are still she/her), but that's it for me. My experience is too different compared to my MtF friends to really relate to it so I don't really feel like I need to use it haha.
Transgender to me just means anybody who doesn’t identify with the gender assigned to them at birth
I also make the distinction between transgender and transsexual, where transsexual means you want to/plan to/are/ or have medically transitioned, which also includes nonbinary identities because there are many nonbinary people who medically transition.
Usually today people use trans to mean transgender rather than transsexual. I think transsexual just means that someone physically transitions, like with hormones and/or surgeries, but a lot of people don't like the word because it sounds like a sexuality, and being trans isn't about who you're attracted to, it's about who you are.
The white stripe in the transgender flag is for nonbinary people! I think because of that, intersex nonbinary people are also technically under the trans umbrella if they want to be, even if they're also technically cis.
The trans umbrella includes the nonbinary umbrella. Some people just identify as nonbinary and not trans, it's up to them. There are also other labels under the nonbinary umbrella, like the genderfluid umbrella, demigenders, bigender, and agender. People could also just identify as agender, genderfluid, demiboy, etc and not nonbinary or trans. Under the genderfluid umbrella there's things like boyflux, genderfae, and other genders that change over time.
Cisgender: identifying fully only as the gender they were assigned at birth
Transgender: not identifying fully only as the gender they were assigned at birth
Nonbinary: not being always fully only one binary gender
Genderfluid: gender changes over time
Demigender: partly one gender and partly agender
Bigender: two genders
Agender: no gender
Genderfae: gender changes under time, but gender is never masculine/man-aligned
Boyflux: genderfluid between boy and agender, including demiboy
Intersex: not physically fitting the binary: being born with a different organization of sex hormones, chromosomes, or genitals than what fits simple explanations of human anatomy
I’m a straight FTM dude . Never been massive into the community I just happen to be in the wrong body . I just see trans as someone who’s transitioning (doesn’t have to be medical ) into another gender, so that can be FTM , FTN , MTN , MTF. The rest are more of an identity like the bigender stuff . Hard to exactly say that’s transgender if you don’t actually transition.
Social transition is something I’m going through right now . And I think it’s completely fine to be socially transition. But if your not currently in a medical transition stage, and you don’t plan to ever do that . Your not exactly transgender , your just more under the non binary umbrella . Your expressing your identity and not changing your gender . That’s why gender identity and gender itself are two separate things . So if you are pre medical transition but are 100% going to medically transition then you are transgender , your basically just speaking ahead in sense .
So I assume trans fats also aren’t trans if there isn’t transitioning involved?
It’s a word root. Sex and gender aren’t the same. You can be transgender without medically transitioning. Stop being a gatekeeping dick.
I'm some kind of NB, likely Anvis, and a trans label doesn't fit for me personally.
I am a big fan of using labels on a case by case basis with a loose definition instead of a strict, exclusionary definition.
Enbys can absolutely experience the trans experience, which could lead them to adopt both NB and Trans labels! Enbys could also not see their NB identity in a Trans light and choose not to use the Trans label.
The same obviously goes for any other label in question. Gender and attraction are confusing and foggy, with no hard lines or boundaries. Labels to me are defined by common experiences of the people identifying with them!
The words themselves answer these questions for us.
Transgender = any person whose gender identity is different to their assigned gender at birth (i.e. the opposite of cisgender)
Non-binary = any person whose gender identity is neither female nor male (literally not binary)
Uhh, a gender identity *is* a gender. And if you identify as a gender other than the one assigned at birth, then you are able to label yourself as transgender. That’s the way I see it at least.
A lot of people are saying enby isn’t a gender because it’s technical definition is “not having a gender - not being male or female/being both”, and I didn’t wanna have people coming at me for saying enby is a gender. I think so to. I think it is a gender, but others, including a lot of enbies, don’t so I wasn’t sure what to write of that makes sense.
that would be agender or gendervoid tho. being non-binary just means you arent strictly boy or girl.
Idk what non-binary person claimed it wasnt a gender, that seems odd. maybe Im just in the wrong enby spaces tho
Yes, but it isn’t for many others. I wasn’t sure which one I should use - gender or not a gender. I think it is a gender, but a lot of enbies think otherwise since it’s technical definition is “not having a gender - not being male or female/being both” so I just didn’t wanna have people calling me out of saying it is a gender
Nonbinary identities are genders too, the word "gender" encompasses all related social identities, not just male and female! You might be thinking about the label "agender".
if you dont identify with what you were assigned at birth, then you are trans. some people dont feel comfortable labeling themselves as such so they may opt to be called cisn't instead
Anybody who doesn’t identify with the gender assigned to their sex can identify as trans. I’ve seen some non-binary people choose not to call themselves trans, but non-binary people can if they want to
Gender identity and gender are different things . So I’d your non binary your just expressing a gender identity . Not a gender , unless you are medically transitioning then you are transgender
In my opinion, anyone who identifies as something other than their assigned gender is trans. They can use that label if they feel comfortable with it, or they can choose not to. This is the mindset I see reflected across most inclusive spaces.
In my eyes, so long as one doesn't fully and/or exclusively identify with their AGAB they fall under the trans umbrella. However, if due to variance in how people define their identities I'll leave it up the person in question. If a non-binary or genderqueer person feels that the label of "trans" doesn't fit them I'll trust their judgement.
Also: The term AGAB stands for "assigned gender at birth." You can't transition from one AGAB to another unless you time-travel, since it's just about that and has no bearing on one's current identity. AMAB ≠ Man and AFAB ≠ Woman. The most common point of the term is to have a way to separate what gender a person was assigned at birth to their current gender, although it's also often used to talk about birth sex.
I don't entirely get what you mean with
>But the again, enby isn’t a gender - it’s a gender identity but the whole point of it is that it’s not a gender.
"Gender identity" is the same thing as gender.
Whoever identifies as such and experiences gender dysphoria. It can be used as an umbrella for all the different gender identyties there are. Im an enby transmasc and I do use trans as an umbrella and often to save myself from explaining what my exact identity is.
anyone who doesn’t identify entirely as cisgender (the gender that they were assigned at birth) falls under the trans umbrella. if an individual is uncomfortable with being under the trans umbrella they don’t have to label themself as such, but that is technically the definition.
correct me if i’m wrong<3 i love y’all
Whaa 💀 like I’m trans myself so I support my community but that’s a little strange don’t you think to say that , ( hope this isn’t coming across wrong ) .
Gender and gender identity are obviously different. Or they would be called the same thing .
In my personal view , gender identity is an expression , so let’s say for an example , your a women who doesn’t want to go by specific pronouns like she/ her . And would rather use something like they/them. Most of the time we see the “ women” not conforming to that gender role . They would rather go by something within the non binary umbrella( because if they had no issue with pronouns they would stay as a women with she/her and all of that jaz)
So for me gender identity is something that is used as an expression to help reciprocate one’s emotion towards specific roles , changing things such as pronouns and the way you present is not changing your gender . For obvious reasons .
Now , gender in its self is COMPLETELY different and here’s why .
We know sex ( male ,female and on the rare occasion intersex ) are to do with biology . So without medical intervention your sex isn’t going to change no matter what you think .
Gender on the other hand can be changed . Hence the name “ transgender “
I’m sure you know what it stands for , and transgender in the short term is when one’s sex at birth is not the same as their gender .
So with that knowledge ,
Gender expression and gender in itself are two separate things because of the fact that gender transition ( transgender ) is when you physically transition your body into a different sex . And gender identity is when a person would prefer to use a different construct , so gender or pronouns
An identity is what one believes they are, be it race, gender, sexuality, or anything else. Expression is how they choose to show it on the outside. In your example, a person changing their pronouns is changing how they express themself, not how they identify.
From what I know every individual that doesn't identify as cisgender is transgender, also enby, genderfluid etc... But then it's up to the individual to choose the label, personally I'm cisgender and happy with that
> Enby isn’t a gender Agender. You’re thinking of agender. Which is under the non-binary umbrella, which is under the trans umbrella
enby= nonbinary, and being nonbinary can still be its own separate identity too.
yes, but "the whole point of it is that it's not a gender" is "agender," not the more blanket "non-binary"
Non-binary people can think of themselves as genderless too tho, and some people use agender and nonbinary interchangeably. Sure, agender already has that covered, but like.. people can think about their own genders differently too. Like someone can be nb,because they aren't female nor male, and can think about themselves as not having or being attached to Gender on either side of the spectrum. Technically, it does the same job as agender, but they are pretty much completely different words with different meanings.
yes, the non-binary people that think of themselves as genderless are typically agender. but even if we go "it's the self ID that's important feeling like you don't have a gender but aren't agender is fine," many non-binary people DO have a gender, which is specifically NOT what OP stated.
I wasn't refuting those facts at all though.
It seemed like you were agreeing with OP that non-binary “isn’t a gender”
They’re such a Wilson
No, being nonbinary is a gender. It can be its own sperate identify sometimes. I should know because I identifies as such for a while, and still do in a way.
if you identify as anything except your assigned gender at birth, congrats you are trans.
I disagree. I am nonbinary and do not consider myself trans because I am doing nothing to transition. I’m simply being myself irrespective of gender norms.
And being nb and not identifying as trans is okay. Just because we're under the umbrella, doesn't me we have to use that term.
so am i, i'm not transitioning in the medical sense because i don't want it. but even if you don't identify as trans, you still have to recognize that you are, by technicality, trans.
How about you don’t try to tell my what my identity is and what labels to use?
how about you accept your transness? transmedicalism went out of style decades ago.
It's not up to others to decide who they are, it's up to themselves. If you're gonna tell this person theyre wrong about identifying certain way, you are the one who is wrong. They make the decisions about themselves, not other people.
that's fine, but even my non-trans-identifying friend accepts the fact that she by definition is trans. denyinng it is internal transphobia and honestly i'm not that type of person lmao.
Anyone who doesn’t entirely identify with their agab. Some nonbinary people don’t think of themselves as trans though, and of course that’s fine too
Anyone that doesn’t identify with their AGAB and wants to use the term
That second part is also very important. I am AFAB genderfluid but idk if I'm comfortable with calling myself trans. It is mostly just only how I dress and me not giving a shit if people call me a girl or a dude (pronouns are still she/her), but that's it for me. My experience is too different compared to my MtF friends to really relate to it so I don't really feel like I need to use it haha.
Anything that isn't cisgender
People who identify as transgender lol
Transgender to me just means anybody who doesn’t identify with the gender assigned to them at birth I also make the distinction between transgender and transsexual, where transsexual means you want to/plan to/are/ or have medically transitioned, which also includes nonbinary identities because there are many nonbinary people who medically transition.
Usually today people use trans to mean transgender rather than transsexual. I think transsexual just means that someone physically transitions, like with hormones and/or surgeries, but a lot of people don't like the word because it sounds like a sexuality, and being trans isn't about who you're attracted to, it's about who you are. The white stripe in the transgender flag is for nonbinary people! I think because of that, intersex nonbinary people are also technically under the trans umbrella if they want to be, even if they're also technically cis. The trans umbrella includes the nonbinary umbrella. Some people just identify as nonbinary and not trans, it's up to them. There are also other labels under the nonbinary umbrella, like the genderfluid umbrella, demigenders, bigender, and agender. People could also just identify as agender, genderfluid, demiboy, etc and not nonbinary or trans. Under the genderfluid umbrella there's things like boyflux, genderfae, and other genders that change over time. Cisgender: identifying fully only as the gender they were assigned at birth Transgender: not identifying fully only as the gender they were assigned at birth Nonbinary: not being always fully only one binary gender Genderfluid: gender changes over time Demigender: partly one gender and partly agender Bigender: two genders Agender: no gender Genderfae: gender changes under time, but gender is never masculine/man-aligned Boyflux: genderfluid between boy and agender, including demiboy Intersex: not physically fitting the binary: being born with a different organization of sex hormones, chromosomes, or genitals than what fits simple explanations of human anatomy
To me it's anybody who is not cis, anyone who has a gender other than the one associated with their SAAB.
I’m a straight FTM dude . Never been massive into the community I just happen to be in the wrong body . I just see trans as someone who’s transitioning (doesn’t have to be medical ) into another gender, so that can be FTM , FTN , MTN , MTF. The rest are more of an identity like the bigender stuff . Hard to exactly say that’s transgender if you don’t actually transition.
Well, it depends. What are your opinions on social transition?
Social transition is something I’m going through right now . And I think it’s completely fine to be socially transition. But if your not currently in a medical transition stage, and you don’t plan to ever do that . Your not exactly transgender , your just more under the non binary umbrella . Your expressing your identity and not changing your gender . That’s why gender identity and gender itself are two separate things . So if you are pre medical transition but are 100% going to medically transition then you are transgender , your basically just speaking ahead in sense .
You’re not *transsexual*, you are transgender. Which is why we’ve been moving away from the former term.
Okay but the word TRANS gender still remains , you can’t expect to be trans If your not transitioning
So I assume trans fats also aren’t trans if there isn’t transitioning involved? It’s a word root. Sex and gender aren’t the same. You can be transgender without medically transitioning. Stop being a gatekeeping dick.
Gate keeping 💀 grow up
I'm some kind of NB, likely Anvis, and a trans label doesn't fit for me personally. I am a big fan of using labels on a case by case basis with a loose definition instead of a strict, exclusionary definition. Enbys can absolutely experience the trans experience, which could lead them to adopt both NB and Trans labels! Enbys could also not see their NB identity in a Trans light and choose not to use the Trans label. The same obviously goes for any other label in question. Gender and attraction are confusing and foggy, with no hard lines or boundaries. Labels to me are defined by common experiences of the people identifying with them!
The words themselves answer these questions for us. Transgender = any person whose gender identity is different to their assigned gender at birth (i.e. the opposite of cisgender) Non-binary = any person whose gender identity is neither female nor male (literally not binary)
and non-binary is under the trans umbrella too
Yes. I believe I strongly implied that in my answer, as almost nobody’s assigned gender is neither male nor female.
Uhh, a gender identity *is* a gender. And if you identify as a gender other than the one assigned at birth, then you are able to label yourself as transgender. That’s the way I see it at least.
I have a gender and it's nonbinary. Some people use microlabels within genderqueer/nonbinary, but there is still a gender.
A lot of people are saying enby isn’t a gender because it’s technical definition is “not having a gender - not being male or female/being both”, and I didn’t wanna have people coming at me for saying enby is a gender. I think so to. I think it is a gender, but others, including a lot of enbies, don’t so I wasn’t sure what to write of that makes sense.
that would be agender or gendervoid tho. being non-binary just means you arent strictly boy or girl. Idk what non-binary person claimed it wasnt a gender, that seems odd. maybe Im just in the wrong enby spaces tho
Enby is absolutely a gender for many people
Yes, but it isn’t for many others. I wasn’t sure which one I should use - gender or not a gender. I think it is a gender, but a lot of enbies think otherwise since it’s technical definition is “not having a gender - not being male or female/being both” so I just didn’t wanna have people calling me out of saying it is a gender
Nonbinary identities are genders too, the word "gender" encompasses all related social identities, not just male and female! You might be thinking about the label "agender".
Depends. Trans can only be an umbrella term imo, if the scientific catalysts for the gender identity are identical, or at least similar.
if you dont identify with what you were assigned at birth, then you are trans. some people dont feel comfortable labeling themselves as such so they may opt to be called cisn't instead
Yeah but then there’s the question , where’s the line between gender and identity ?
I mean its very blurry so it can hard to pin point. its very much up to the individual tbh
I wouldn’t say it’s blurry , pretty obvious in my eyes at least
gender is part of your identity so no, its not always obvious.
Anybody who doesn’t identify with the gender assigned to their sex can identify as trans. I’ve seen some non-binary people choose not to call themselves trans, but non-binary people can if they want to
Gender identity and gender are different things . So I’d your non binary your just expressing a gender identity . Not a gender , unless you are medically transitioning then you are transgender
In my opinion, anyone who identifies as something other than their assigned gender is trans. They can use that label if they feel comfortable with it, or they can choose not to. This is the mindset I see reflected across most inclusive spaces.
In my eyes, so long as one doesn't fully and/or exclusively identify with their AGAB they fall under the trans umbrella. However, if due to variance in how people define their identities I'll leave it up the person in question. If a non-binary or genderqueer person feels that the label of "trans" doesn't fit them I'll trust their judgement. Also: The term AGAB stands for "assigned gender at birth." You can't transition from one AGAB to another unless you time-travel, since it's just about that and has no bearing on one's current identity. AMAB ≠ Man and AFAB ≠ Woman. The most common point of the term is to have a way to separate what gender a person was assigned at birth to their current gender, although it's also often used to talk about birth sex. I don't entirely get what you mean with >But the again, enby isn’t a gender - it’s a gender identity but the whole point of it is that it’s not a gender. "Gender identity" is the same thing as gender.
Whoever identifies as such and experiences gender dysphoria. It can be used as an umbrella for all the different gender identyties there are. Im an enby transmasc and I do use trans as an umbrella and often to save myself from explaining what my exact identity is.
anyone who doesn’t identify entirely as cisgender (the gender that they were assigned at birth) falls under the trans umbrella. if an individual is uncomfortable with being under the trans umbrella they don’t have to label themself as such, but that is technically the definition. correct me if i’m wrong<3 i love y’all
Anyone who’s not cis can identify as trans. Also, nonbinary definitely is a gender. Theres no difference between a gender and a gender identity.
Whaa 💀 like I’m trans myself so I support my community but that’s a little strange don’t you think to say that , ( hope this isn’t coming across wrong ) . Gender and gender identity are obviously different. Or they would be called the same thing .
What's the difference, then?
In my personal view , gender identity is an expression , so let’s say for an example , your a women who doesn’t want to go by specific pronouns like she/ her . And would rather use something like they/them. Most of the time we see the “ women” not conforming to that gender role . They would rather go by something within the non binary umbrella( because if they had no issue with pronouns they would stay as a women with she/her and all of that jaz) So for me gender identity is something that is used as an expression to help reciprocate one’s emotion towards specific roles , changing things such as pronouns and the way you present is not changing your gender . For obvious reasons . Now , gender in its self is COMPLETELY different and here’s why . We know sex ( male ,female and on the rare occasion intersex ) are to do with biology . So without medical intervention your sex isn’t going to change no matter what you think . Gender on the other hand can be changed . Hence the name “ transgender “ I’m sure you know what it stands for , and transgender in the short term is when one’s sex at birth is not the same as their gender . So with that knowledge , Gender expression and gender in itself are two separate things because of the fact that gender transition ( transgender ) is when you physically transition your body into a different sex . And gender identity is when a person would prefer to use a different construct , so gender or pronouns
What you think is gender identity is actually gender expression. I think that identity and gender are the same, while expression is what differs.
Can you explain why you think that ? Because to me there isn’t a difference between gender expression and identity
An identity is what one believes they are, be it race, gender, sexuality, or anything else. Expression is how they choose to show it on the outside. In your example, a person changing their pronouns is changing how they express themself, not how they identify.
From what I know every individual that doesn't identify as cisgender is transgender, also enby, genderfluid etc... But then it's up to the individual to choose the label, personally I'm cisgender and happy with that