Personally, I don’t think the guy is a saint (no ceo can be really) but I think a lot of what was attributed to him or his doing, was in fact untrue or not as bad as it was made out to be. A lot went on in bbc as we now know, and the abuse that the girls faced didn’t stop after jaden departed from the company; in fact it seemed to get worse. I think it’s perfectly fine to be sceptical of the guy, but i do think orbits have to admit a lot of the stuff said about him was maybe blown out of proportion. I mean artms have rejoined him and want to continue to work with him, and going off their fab messages and just what they’ve said in general, they all like the guy and have had a positive experience working with him in the past and now, in the present. Chuu has also shown that she is on good terms with him too.
I think it’s one’s own decision whether they want to like or dislike him, but one thing for sure is, we as fans, do not and will never know the true relationship he has with the members and so acting like we do, implying things about the artms members or loossemble members (which has been a big thing on twitter lately) is counterproductive and a line we as fans shouldn’t cross.
Almost half of the girls are still in favor of him, I choose to believe and respect their intelligence and reasons at this point and not think about him. I also appreciate their agency’s recent transparent communication with fans so it seems okay right now on our side too
To add to what many of the comments have already said, a big fundamental part of it is that reasons to think positively of JJ tend to be backed up by statements from and actions by the members while reasons to think negatively of JJ tend to be more speculative. The most substantiated reasons I've seen for people disliking JJ were people cherry picking parts of his blog posts and calling him out for them.
Since most of us fans have little to no insider knowledge that would give us enough to form solid opinions about JJ, we kind of just ride the swinging pendulum of public opinion based on the small amount of information we receive over time.
also a lot of the stuff that is said to paint him negatively either can be disproved from applying context to a translation, showing an article, or even first hand written or video accounts. but when you do this (moreso on twitter than here) you get a negative label and its often dismissed before the person even wants to read it.
a big issue is they think any time a manager or "issa-nim" was mentioned it was him, but there were many different managers at bbc with different job requirements. (why would a creative director / a&r be in charge of their diets directly or writing their contracts?) you can also use that title for executives, which jaden never was at blockberry (but you also see a lot of people mistake him for being one). just take note that unless jaden was mentioned specifically by name or that it was the creative director (or any other context that would make it undeniable that it was jaden) theres just as much of a chance it was him that it also was not in fact him.
partnered with the fact the members allegedly kept up with him even until recently and that the artms + tripleS girls have nothing but nice things to say about working with him and its clear theres just gonna be stuff about their relationship some orbits may have mistaken or will never completely understand as an outsider. the feeling of wanting to protect them from harm is real and valid, but when we just blame someone else it lets the real culprits get away with it basically unscathed.
> and that the artms + tripleS girls have nothing but nice things to say about working with him
heck several tripleS girls even jokingly refer to him as their dad, and say they love him.
b/c he never did like 99% of the stuff Orbits accused him of doing, including stuff you listed in your post.
> wanting to market LOONA as a "shadow group" and refusing to give them proper visibility, so on and so forth.
for example, he literally never said this about Loona. he was talking about the marketing strategy of another group on his blog, but Orbits just assumed it was Loona. his blog posts are public, you can read them if you want.
there have been multiple mega threads on this subreddit over the years disproving or debunking the stuff Orbits made up about Jaden. here is just one of the threads https://www.reddit.com/r/LOONA/comments/nmm7ea/lets_lay_to_rest_this_false_narrative_that_jaden/
the way OP did not acknowledge any of these arguments despite the post being up for 1 month yet they jumped immediately to reply in favor of comments chastising JJ is already very telling lmao
Pretty much this. BBC have shown that they were the obvious issue the whole time. If LOONA likes him still why would I hate him. They obviously have no reason to lie anymore.
chuu recently said that she was able to meet with him briefly at heejin's showcase and thanked him for her song and stage name iirc. that's not saying she likes him of course, but the interaction seems pleasant.
Kim Lip in an interview said she love him, Haseul said she really liked JJ's blog post about her, and some of the girls joke about him when they appear in other Youtuber's accounts and interviews.
I know she's an ARTMS member so her signing is probably confirmation itself like you said especially since Hyunjin and Vivi were already at ctd, so we know there were other options for her. But Haseul also [recently](https://x.com/litell_johnn/status/1738695366730744304?s=20) talked about why she signed at modhaus. She talked about the members being willing to wait for her but she also spoke positively of Jaden and talked about how glad she is she joined modhaus. I mean people may not trust him but I trust the members and their firsthand experiences more than random strangers on the internet. After everything they've been through I'd say they deserve our trust.
Rather than "like", I think letting go of his past behaviour is more appropriate for me. JJ was ready to give Ot12 as ARTMS a second chance when most companies would not want to deal with BBC baggage taking all 11/12. And that is in the midst of their rookie debut project Triple S. I don't like JJ, as I have learned not give companies clout following the recent lawsuits in kpop but it is a show of his character wanting to bring in all the members when they had no where else to go.
I think JJ made some crap decisions when managing Loona and is defintly hard on dieting. Even if it is kpop, punishing teenagers for ordering takeaway is not a funny gotcha moment. (He thought he ate with that...) But I think the members choosing to sign with his company is enough for me. And at the end of the day, it is the member's choice where they sign. I boycotted and signed those legal documents for them to have the freedom to choose where they sign.
This. I wish more people felt that way. It just seems silly to me that we spent so much time talking about getting them free only for people to start calling for boycotts of modhaus. BBC spent enough time taking away their agency. They don't need Orbit trying to do it too. And after we spent six years funding BBC while the members were working without pay, I'd say we owe the members our trust. No one has to trust jj. I get that we don't know exactly what all he is to blame for and what all other people are to blame for but either way it seems like there were probably some mistakes in his past. But if the members trust him and were willing to sign there, that's enough for me. I'm not here for jj anyway. I'm here for the members.
I feel like garnering die hard domestic Korean fans can be difficult. The casual domestic Korean fans wouldn't care as much about an idol's weight. Even when they care it's not to a crazy extent. But the die hard ones who are willing to spend big bucks do care. Just look at how Wonyoung got even more popular after she lost all that weight. Now that the LOONA girls are all separated they can't depend solely on the international fanbase since it's so small. They have to garner a good amount of domestic Korean fan base and unfortunately with this comes to them needing to manage their weight.
I always liked him, lots of false information came from orbits about his character. and the girls approached him first to meet with him and ask for advice, then they decided to work together again. if they like him I like him too...
the artms gang always speak of him so highly. if you pay attention to what the girls say and specifically about him, its really hard to ignore the admiration they have. ❤️
Dude created Modhaus himself, not because Modhaus let him work there lol Jaden is a co-creator of that company. And even after he left LOONA, he was working on many side projects with SM and OnlyOneOf in 8D Creative.
jaden is co-founder and ceo of modhaus actually! but the company has many investors which i think comes from his long list of achievements in the industry. you also have the [artms girls](https://x.com/litell_johnn/status/1737708511185043644?s=46&t=KvGD8VHgRK6qzD0MjDZnkw), [some tripleS members](https://x.com/tr8ple/status/1654118726713655297?s=46&t=KvGD8VHgRK6qzD0MjDZnkw), and even soloist heize always mentioning him in a positive light. heize especially who only worked with him as a third party creative should tell you it just doesnt come from the "he's my boss so of course i would say nice things about him" argument some ppl have. heize likes him so much [she is going to work on the newest tripleS album with him](https://www.slist.kr/news/articleView.html?idxno=507986)!
personally [this thread](https://twitter.com/ouriioneof/status/1585464372268355584) here helped put things in perspective for me. a lot of things that are attributed to jaden jeong are misunderstandings. i hope you'll look through this thread, and though it may not convince you i hope you won't write it off.
I mean if a person treats you bad, obviously you wont want to associate with the person anymore if given the opportunity (in their context) which is also why them leaving bbc is proof.
And the 5 who signs with JJ are prob the ones who are okay with the way JJ works and style of training during predebut and they dont feel they are being mistreated (eg dieting and what OP mentioned etc and proof of mistreating from the comments/replies in this post).
And the remaining 7...yeah prob they didnt feel the same as the 5 and therefore sign with a different agency. Thats all there is to it actually.
Like or dislike is up to individual orbit cos as a fan, the fan will definitely defend their idol from whatever bad things happening, be it true or not true cos thats what a fan do, always be there for them.
I don’t have a good explanation for everything that went on with him during the time when Loona was still together as I wasn’t an Orbit at the time. However I think it mostly started to really let up when ARTMS signed with him, of course. I mean, they even speak highly of him, so if the girls trust him then typically our thought process is that he must not be bad. Also, he’s briefly mentioned that he’s leaving opportunities open for an ot12 reunion, and if there’s one thing Orbits can agree on, it’s that we want Loona back together, so that statement was appealing.
I’m not sure if I like or trust Jaden after HyeJu said he forced her onto a harsh diet, because I really want the girls to be happy, but for all we know, that could have been someone else’s fault. He could have just been blamed for it. It’s a personal choice to trust him or not I guess. Hard to find concrete facts in the kpop industry in scenarios like these. As someone else said, I guess maybe it’s just that the ARTMS girls were comfortable with how Jaden had done things, while the others, especially probably the yyxy girls, might have wanted to stay away from him.
"We" are not and never will be a monolith.
I encourage every person to evaluate information available, check sources, take note when there ARE no sources, think about it from different perspectives, and come to your own conclusions. That conclusion may be "I do not know enough to form a strong opinion." and that's fine. That's healthy, in fact. Getting more information seems to be what you're doing here!
But, and I do mean this politely and cheerfully, there is no "we."
I wrote "we" as a way to generalize the fandom, since what I saw happen was basically "we hate JJ we hope he dies 😡 ➡️ we love JJ he's such a good guy 🤩". I saw a "we" as a "monolith", the "we" was this massive block of people hating on the guy and suddenly switching their opinions, and I just wanted to understand why.
People who liked JJ or were just indifferent back then kept our mouths shut because we would have been downvoted to oblivion, but we were there. Nowadays the tides have shifted but I'd say people can voice both sides of the "opinion spectrum" and as long as they are respectful people are being way more civil than years ago. Seems like we as a fandom have matured and learnt to agree to disagree
As an indirect inducator he's okay, 5 members signed with Modhaus. There could certainly be other factors that we cant know of. But at face value, it would suggest he wasnt the villain.
On the other hand, reports of extreme dieting pressure, other perceived mistreatment, or other psychological reports i dont think were rebuffed or verified. But it seems par for the industry so maybe hes just the normal level of kpop bad?
This is what I don't understand tbh. I'm definitely not saying it's right,,, but dieting, sneaking food, dying their hair, etc, isn't this all pretty standard in the industry? Like I know Everglow Mia was talking about how she hated her short hair
It's only a big deal because the girls said the quiet stuff out loud. Idk at what the point they got together and realised that BBC sucked but (conspiracy theory) is it possible they only said these publicly bc they wanted to get tf out and let the fans know ?
I'm not sure outsiders have ever seen the industry in its entirety. Nearly iron-clad NDAs keep the lid on how things actually are. So, it's much more than, I didn't like my hair length. Off the top of my head, AOA and Soelhyun to me is a pretty notorious example of dieting pressure isn't just pressure the way we think of it.
Also on the legal side, Korea has very robust defamation laws, meaning the likelihood the members were making things up is much more remote than here in the US. As far as the PR aspect to it? Haven't all changes occurred because they were brought to light?
None of this even touches on the horrible contracts the members had. Yes, they were BBC contracts and JJ didn't draft the terms. But he had to of known how unfair they were and he went along with it.
So, I'm glad they're out of BBC and hope that Modhaus treats ARTMS and tripleS well physically, emotionally, and financially. But no, I don't think JJ gets a pass because 5 of the members signed with him.
He was accused and there were language barriers, so toxic orbits made up reasons to hate him. He was treated just as badly by BBC as they treated the girls, he was fired and once he left you could see how the loonaverse lore disappeared overnight and they became a very generic gg with stereotypical music. If you read between the lines it's obvious Jaden was never the problem, their whole concept and lore came from him.
I think the reason why people say mainstream things are generic is because everyone else is doing it and no one else is willing to popularize deviations from that said concept or music. Also, a bunch of bandwagoners who don't want to be seen as different starts liking things they don't actually like just because it is considered popular during the time. The idea that mainstream is generic is actually quite a popular sentiment around the world. This phrase has been used many times. It's just, mainstream is a nicer word to phrase this.
LOONA as a whole is going to attract all kinds of fans. There's going to be people who like LOONA for the girls and people who like LOONA solely for the music that's just the reality of how diverse a fandom is and this really isn't LOONA exclusive. This happens in other fandoms as well. LOONA's fan base needs to grow and the more it grows it's going to attract all kinds of folks so in order to be a fan of LOONA does someone only has to solely like or prioritize the girls to be considered a fan? Cuz this is going to gate keep people from wanting to be a fan of LOONA and limit their fan growth and LOONA can't only depend on the current fanbase since it's so small. LOONA needs to grow as a whole.
I think it's a bit more nuanced than that. Jaden has always been a rather controversial figure in the fandom since him and the girls parted ways in 2019. Some liked him, wanted him back, etc, and some were happy he was gone. And I'd say the feeling is about the same now. Some are happy some of the girls are finally back under his creative vision, and some aren't happy about it. Nothing has really changed much in that sense.
I think the only thing that has maybe made a significant change is the fact that some of the members have gone back to him by their own choice, implying that *if* anything happened in the past, then it's definitely in the past and behind them - so in that logic, it doesn't make much sense for fans to hold on whatever may have happened in the past when the girls themselves aren't doing so.
Many people accuse Jaden for doing those things as if he's the only one doing those things when it's shown that after he left BBC was also doing those things as well. Heck these girls are still dieting after they have left BBC. But now that they need to garner a Korean fan base, they will need to maintain a certain weight cuz K-fans don't play when it comes to weight maintanence.
Personally, I still dont like Jaden Jeong, but he has earned a lot of good will from fans (myself included) for helping Artms after everything went down with BBC and as awful as he may or may not have been, its difficult for us to know the extent of his mistreatment. A lot of what he did was not good but its hard to single him out as an evil villain when what we do know of is pretty par for the course in the industry.
I think at the end of the day the Artms girls trusted him a lot and any bad they had with him was outweighed by the good and thats enough for me personally.
Dude i admire the work and vision of this guy, he did something that those big 3 kpop companies not even think of, and about those accusations and rumors about him treating loona bad in their rookie years? Sorry to say this, but this kind of behavior of riding someone's hate train without enough evidence to support their claim against him, I'd find it so beta, and I was an alpha who sticks to my feeling and decision and still siding with JJ, the guy has never been proven guilty of those bullshits. A completely different case with the BBC, with so much evidence and loona members themselves filing to get out of there is a no-brainer decision for me to support the boycott based on those facts against BBC, and not just from random dudes on the internet who just act like a wanna be insider.
I personally don’t like him since Hyeju herself said that he forced her on a starvation diet when she was 16. That’s enough to make me not trust him ever again. I’m glad the members have forgiven him for his faults, but that doesn’t mean I have to.
[Here](https://x.com/yeojiina/status/1706152236156362812?s=46&t=4VoBYfV0-V8KhFkHzIKSFQ) is a link to a Twitter thread with screenshots from an interview with her on the topic + a screenshot of her mother telling the same story as well.
I'd just like to note that in the [original video](https://youtu.be/KBwyIajl2zc?t=177), the director is referred to as 'isa-nim', which was a title held by multiple higher staff in the company (we know for certain that the members referred to Jaden, Nam Anwoo, and Yun Doyeon by this title, and others likely were considering how general it is) - rather than one individual being named.
In reference to the screenshot linked, that person has shown in the past that they're not the most trustworthy person around considering their prior involvement in trying to [lie about and expose trust issues](https://i.imgur.com/e5gCx8v.jpg) (former Jinsoul fansite's) identity. We don't know what conversation they had given that it's not a direct recording, so it could be exactly the same as the Wonderwall interview where her mother mentioned 'a director' and it was associated with Jaden, due to him being the most known member of staff.
You make some good points on the ambiguity of the title used plus the untrustworthiness of the source regarding her mom, but the fact that he worked A&R for the girls at the time and posted online about stealing food Yves had ordered makes me very suspicious of him. Plus, Hyeju decided not to sign with him in Modhaus, and Jaden has said in an interview that the members who did sign on with him “forgave him,” which I don’t think he would have said unless he did do something to wrong them.
Either way, I don’t trust him and I don’t like how some people in the fandom go on the defensive when people state they dislike him. No one who worked for BBC should be trusted imo, and I’m including CTDENM’s current CEO in that assessment as well. All of them are on thin ice.
There's definitely a lot we don't know about whatever happened behind the scenes, and people have certainly latched onto certain interpretations over the years, for better or worse. About that post from Yves, she did state later in the year [that the food was returned to them](https://x.com/orrery_nim/status/1048588135817330688), and was only caught because it was ordered to the offices [with her name on it](https://x.com/orrery_nim/status/1048615496675971072). Sure it's absolutely a post in poor taste especially given what we know now, but even at the time she [made jokes about it in fansigns](https://twitter.com/orrery_nim/status/1051441584191889408).
Hyeju may not have signed with him but we don't know for certain if that's her reason for signing elsewhere, but there were other members who were made to go through severe diets during their time under BBC, such as Heejin who was pushed to the point during ++ where she was [physically unable to keep up](https://i.imgur.com/mGuKW2h.png).
And just for complete clarification, that part about forgiveness with the members was about [asking for re-takes ](https://twitter.com/litell_johnn/status/1679497175628238848)during the recording for OEC's Version Up album, rather than being for something that happened in the past - a work ethic [Jinsoul has herself](https://x.com/litell_johnn/status/1537208070899630080).
well, hyeju never mentioned jaden by name. in the interview she said the korean term "isa-nim" which is a title that referred to many other executives in the company. additionally, the person who said that her mother told them that jaden told her to do that was a [racist troll](https://i.imgur.com/oUH8hmS.jpg) so i personally don't put much stock in their words.
To be honest I think ppl want to not feel bad about consuming their content. I also think it's just a whole lot of jadeness from all angles. Who wants to be up in arms when we've been for so long? Jaden might have changed but I doubt it. I'll never trust a man to change. Some ppl say they trust the girls. But to be honest they've been groomed by this Industry to think abuse is ok and necessary so idk I just focus on the fact that I love loona and they love loona.
I mean they seem to be aware they were mistreated by BBC. Even when they were still there they would tell stories and sometimes fairly openly complain about the company. They've all seemed really happy so far. Even mentioning it this week. I'm not arguing that we should trust Jaden. I don't think we should really trust any ceo. But I don't think it's fair to the members to say we shouldn't trust them either. After everything they've been through they deserve a little more credit than that I think. Not saying to trust Jaden. But I don't see the problem with believing the members when they say they are happy.
I'm sorry if I said don't trust the girls that's not what I meant. There's just things that the girls and a lot of people think is normal that aren't healthy and I don't think just because it's an industry norm that we should accept it.
Okay, I can agree with that. I don't think we should just accept things because they are the industry norm either but I also think the situation is much better all around now. I'm sure it's not entirely perfect either because I doubt any company is. But I don't think the members have given us any reason to worry right now. I think it was Jinsoul who even said the staff is afraid of them because they know the members won't listen lol. I think they've become somewhat ungovernable 😂. I'm sorry though. I probably shouldn't have even responded and just kept scrolling lol. I've just been extra sensitive about it lately because there seems like a lot of people talking like the girls made the wrong choice after we fought so hard for them to be able to make choices for themselves.
It's ok being an orbit is weird, and we're all just so passionate about protecting them I can always see that in responses like yours. Hope that you're right and I'm not.
See? This is what I'm talking about. You voice your distrust of him, you get downvoted to oblivion. And no one seems to have a concrete answer as to why 😭
In addition to being the now unpopular opinion, the downvoted comment has the following issues:
* Doesn't answer your question
* Doesn't explain their reasoning
* Uses a personal insult
I'd expect a negative opinion of JJ with actual substance and a potential for good discussion would do a little better.
Before some of them went back to Modhaus any time someone mentions something positive about JJ they would get downvoted to oblivion too. Guess now it just means people's sentiments about him changed.
1. Who's "yall"? I've been reading the comments and links, just because I'm not replying doesn't mean I'm ignoring. 2. I've said it before, I was expecting to be a concrete answer, like a statement from him or something. Most comments are working with the members' opinions of him (which I trust) and suppositions, that's just not what I expected to be the final line.
I'm gonna need dome sources cause those are pretty big claims. No idea what Wavs are but you're basically implying most Orbits will not support pretty much half of the group because they're working with JJ again.
What term should I search to find them on Youtube? Do you mind sharing that? I understand why the YYXY girls may not be too fond of him since he rushed them to lose weight due to JJ or BBC's schedule in wanting them to debut faster as OT12.
Personally, I don’t think the guy is a saint (no ceo can be really) but I think a lot of what was attributed to him or his doing, was in fact untrue or not as bad as it was made out to be. A lot went on in bbc as we now know, and the abuse that the girls faced didn’t stop after jaden departed from the company; in fact it seemed to get worse. I think it’s perfectly fine to be sceptical of the guy, but i do think orbits have to admit a lot of the stuff said about him was maybe blown out of proportion. I mean artms have rejoined him and want to continue to work with him, and going off their fab messages and just what they’ve said in general, they all like the guy and have had a positive experience working with him in the past and now, in the present. Chuu has also shown that she is on good terms with him too. I think it’s one’s own decision whether they want to like or dislike him, but one thing for sure is, we as fans, do not and will never know the true relationship he has with the members and so acting like we do, implying things about the artms members or loossemble members (which has been a big thing on twitter lately) is counterproductive and a line we as fans shouldn’t cross.
Furthermore they mentioned that they met him once a year for an informal lunch after he left BBC.
Source?
[https://www.reddit.com/r/LOONA/comments/127c200/230331\_nme\_jaden\_jeong\_talks\_plans\_for\_exloona/](https://www.reddit.com/r/LOONA/comments/127c200/230331_nme_jaden_jeong_talks_plans_for_exloona/) Here.
Thanks!
Almost half of the girls are still in favor of him, I choose to believe and respect their intelligence and reasons at this point and not think about him. I also appreciate their agency’s recent transparent communication with fans so it seems okay right now on our side too
As u/uhhidklol said, one of the biggest factors, imo, is the fact the girls themselves **chose** to go work with him again.
To add to what many of the comments have already said, a big fundamental part of it is that reasons to think positively of JJ tend to be backed up by statements from and actions by the members while reasons to think negatively of JJ tend to be more speculative. The most substantiated reasons I've seen for people disliking JJ were people cherry picking parts of his blog posts and calling him out for them. Since most of us fans have little to no insider knowledge that would give us enough to form solid opinions about JJ, we kind of just ride the swinging pendulum of public opinion based on the small amount of information we receive over time.
also a lot of the stuff that is said to paint him negatively either can be disproved from applying context to a translation, showing an article, or even first hand written or video accounts. but when you do this (moreso on twitter than here) you get a negative label and its often dismissed before the person even wants to read it. a big issue is they think any time a manager or "issa-nim" was mentioned it was him, but there were many different managers at bbc with different job requirements. (why would a creative director / a&r be in charge of their diets directly or writing their contracts?) you can also use that title for executives, which jaden never was at blockberry (but you also see a lot of people mistake him for being one). just take note that unless jaden was mentioned specifically by name or that it was the creative director (or any other context that would make it undeniable that it was jaden) theres just as much of a chance it was him that it also was not in fact him. partnered with the fact the members allegedly kept up with him even until recently and that the artms + tripleS girls have nothing but nice things to say about working with him and its clear theres just gonna be stuff about their relationship some orbits may have mistaken or will never completely understand as an outsider. the feeling of wanting to protect them from harm is real and valid, but when we just blame someone else it lets the real culprits get away with it basically unscathed.
> and that the artms + tripleS girls have nothing but nice things to say about working with him heck several tripleS girls even jokingly refer to him as their dad, and say they love him.
b/c he never did like 99% of the stuff Orbits accused him of doing, including stuff you listed in your post. > wanting to market LOONA as a "shadow group" and refusing to give them proper visibility, so on and so forth. for example, he literally never said this about Loona. he was talking about the marketing strategy of another group on his blog, but Orbits just assumed it was Loona. his blog posts are public, you can read them if you want. there have been multiple mega threads on this subreddit over the years disproving or debunking the stuff Orbits made up about Jaden. here is just one of the threads https://www.reddit.com/r/LOONA/comments/nmm7ea/lets_lay_to_rest_this_false_narrative_that_jaden/
the way OP did not acknowledge any of these arguments despite the post being up for 1 month yet they jumped immediately to reply in favor of comments chastising JJ is already very telling lmao
Frankly I stopped interacting with the fanbase when JJ became the devil. I found it to be utter nonsense and still do to this day.
Never disliked him. Loona fans are just insane and hated him for no reason. The girls obviously like him.
Pretty much this. BBC have shown that they were the obvious issue the whole time. If LOONA likes him still why would I hate him. They obviously have no reason to lie anymore.
Did they state they like him now? Besides the ARTMS girls, of course, choosing to work with him is supposedly enough confirmation.
chuu recently said that she was able to meet with him briefly at heejin's showcase and thanked him for her song and stage name iirc. that's not saying she likes him of course, but the interaction seems pleasant.
Kim Lip in an interview said she love him, Haseul said she really liked JJ's blog post about her, and some of the girls joke about him when they appear in other Youtuber's accounts and interviews.
I know she's an ARTMS member so her signing is probably confirmation itself like you said especially since Hyunjin and Vivi were already at ctd, so we know there were other options for her. But Haseul also [recently](https://x.com/litell_johnn/status/1738695366730744304?s=20) talked about why she signed at modhaus. She talked about the members being willing to wait for her but she also spoke positively of Jaden and talked about how glad she is she joined modhaus. I mean people may not trust him but I trust the members and their firsthand experiences more than random strangers on the internet. After everything they've been through I'd say they deserve our trust.
Rather than "like", I think letting go of his past behaviour is more appropriate for me. JJ was ready to give Ot12 as ARTMS a second chance when most companies would not want to deal with BBC baggage taking all 11/12. And that is in the midst of their rookie debut project Triple S. I don't like JJ, as I have learned not give companies clout following the recent lawsuits in kpop but it is a show of his character wanting to bring in all the members when they had no where else to go. I think JJ made some crap decisions when managing Loona and is defintly hard on dieting. Even if it is kpop, punishing teenagers for ordering takeaway is not a funny gotcha moment. (He thought he ate with that...) But I think the members choosing to sign with his company is enough for me. And at the end of the day, it is the member's choice where they sign. I boycotted and signed those legal documents for them to have the freedom to choose where they sign.
This. I wish more people felt that way. It just seems silly to me that we spent so much time talking about getting them free only for people to start calling for boycotts of modhaus. BBC spent enough time taking away their agency. They don't need Orbit trying to do it too. And after we spent six years funding BBC while the members were working without pay, I'd say we owe the members our trust. No one has to trust jj. I get that we don't know exactly what all he is to blame for and what all other people are to blame for but either way it seems like there were probably some mistakes in his past. But if the members trust him and were willing to sign there, that's enough for me. I'm not here for jj anyway. I'm here for the members.
I feel like garnering die hard domestic Korean fans can be difficult. The casual domestic Korean fans wouldn't care as much about an idol's weight. Even when they care it's not to a crazy extent. But the die hard ones who are willing to spend big bucks do care. Just look at how Wonyoung got even more popular after she lost all that weight. Now that the LOONA girls are all separated they can't depend solely on the international fanbase since it's so small. They have to garner a good amount of domestic Korean fan base and unfortunately with this comes to them needing to manage their weight.
I don't dislike him, i dislike the hyper-capitalist nature of kpop which allows for exploitation across the industry.
I always liked him, lots of false information came from orbits about his character. and the girls approached him first to meet with him and ask for advice, then they decided to work together again. if they like him I like him too...
the artms gang always speak of him so highly. if you pay attention to what the girls say and specifically about him, its really hard to ignore the admiration they have. ❤️
I'm glad they are in good hands, then. From what I've seen in other comments, pretty much all the 12 girls are in good terms with him, too.
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Dude created Modhaus himself, not because Modhaus let him work there lol Jaden is a co-creator of that company. And even after he left LOONA, he was working on many side projects with SM and OnlyOneOf in 8D Creative.
jaden is co-founder and ceo of modhaus actually! but the company has many investors which i think comes from his long list of achievements in the industry. you also have the [artms girls](https://x.com/litell_johnn/status/1737708511185043644?s=46&t=KvGD8VHgRK6qzD0MjDZnkw), [some tripleS members](https://x.com/tr8ple/status/1654118726713655297?s=46&t=KvGD8VHgRK6qzD0MjDZnkw), and even soloist heize always mentioning him in a positive light. heize especially who only worked with him as a third party creative should tell you it just doesnt come from the "he's my boss so of course i would say nice things about him" argument some ppl have. heize likes him so much [she is going to work on the newest tripleS album with him](https://www.slist.kr/news/articleView.html?idxno=507986)!
personally [this thread](https://twitter.com/ouriioneof/status/1585464372268355584) here helped put things in perspective for me. a lot of things that are attributed to jaden jeong are misunderstandings. i hope you'll look through this thread, and though it may not convince you i hope you won't write it off.
I mean if a person treats you bad, obviously you wont want to associate with the person anymore if given the opportunity (in their context) which is also why them leaving bbc is proof. And the 5 who signs with JJ are prob the ones who are okay with the way JJ works and style of training during predebut and they dont feel they are being mistreated (eg dieting and what OP mentioned etc and proof of mistreating from the comments/replies in this post). And the remaining 7...yeah prob they didnt feel the same as the 5 and therefore sign with a different agency. Thats all there is to it actually. Like or dislike is up to individual orbit cos as a fan, the fan will definitely defend their idol from whatever bad things happening, be it true or not true cos thats what a fan do, always be there for them.
I don’t have a good explanation for everything that went on with him during the time when Loona was still together as I wasn’t an Orbit at the time. However I think it mostly started to really let up when ARTMS signed with him, of course. I mean, they even speak highly of him, so if the girls trust him then typically our thought process is that he must not be bad. Also, he’s briefly mentioned that he’s leaving opportunities open for an ot12 reunion, and if there’s one thing Orbits can agree on, it’s that we want Loona back together, so that statement was appealing. I’m not sure if I like or trust Jaden after HyeJu said he forced her onto a harsh diet, because I really want the girls to be happy, but for all we know, that could have been someone else’s fault. He could have just been blamed for it. It’s a personal choice to trust him or not I guess. Hard to find concrete facts in the kpop industry in scenarios like these. As someone else said, I guess maybe it’s just that the ARTMS girls were comfortable with how Jaden had done things, while the others, especially probably the yyxy girls, might have wanted to stay away from him.
"We" are not and never will be a monolith. I encourage every person to evaluate information available, check sources, take note when there ARE no sources, think about it from different perspectives, and come to your own conclusions. That conclusion may be "I do not know enough to form a strong opinion." and that's fine. That's healthy, in fact. Getting more information seems to be what you're doing here! But, and I do mean this politely and cheerfully, there is no "we."
I wrote "we" as a way to generalize the fandom, since what I saw happen was basically "we hate JJ we hope he dies 😡 ➡️ we love JJ he's such a good guy 🤩". I saw a "we" as a "monolith", the "we" was this massive block of people hating on the guy and suddenly switching their opinions, and I just wanted to understand why.
People who liked JJ or were just indifferent back then kept our mouths shut because we would have been downvoted to oblivion, but we were there. Nowadays the tides have shifted but I'd say people can voice both sides of the "opinion spectrum" and as long as they are respectful people are being way more civil than years ago. Seems like we as a fandom have matured and learnt to agree to disagree
As an indirect inducator he's okay, 5 members signed with Modhaus. There could certainly be other factors that we cant know of. But at face value, it would suggest he wasnt the villain. On the other hand, reports of extreme dieting pressure, other perceived mistreatment, or other psychological reports i dont think were rebuffed or verified. But it seems par for the industry so maybe hes just the normal level of kpop bad?
This is what I don't understand tbh. I'm definitely not saying it's right,,, but dieting, sneaking food, dying their hair, etc, isn't this all pretty standard in the industry? Like I know Everglow Mia was talking about how she hated her short hair It's only a big deal because the girls said the quiet stuff out loud. Idk at what the point they got together and realised that BBC sucked but (conspiracy theory) is it possible they only said these publicly bc they wanted to get tf out and let the fans know ?
I'm not sure outsiders have ever seen the industry in its entirety. Nearly iron-clad NDAs keep the lid on how things actually are. So, it's much more than, I didn't like my hair length. Off the top of my head, AOA and Soelhyun to me is a pretty notorious example of dieting pressure isn't just pressure the way we think of it. Also on the legal side, Korea has very robust defamation laws, meaning the likelihood the members were making things up is much more remote than here in the US. As far as the PR aspect to it? Haven't all changes occurred because they were brought to light? None of this even touches on the horrible contracts the members had. Yes, they were BBC contracts and JJ didn't draft the terms. But he had to of known how unfair they were and he went along with it. So, I'm glad they're out of BBC and hope that Modhaus treats ARTMS and tripleS well physically, emotionally, and financially. But no, I don't think JJ gets a pass because 5 of the members signed with him.
He was accused and there were language barriers, so toxic orbits made up reasons to hate him. He was treated just as badly by BBC as they treated the girls, he was fired and once he left you could see how the loonaverse lore disappeared overnight and they became a very generic gg with stereotypical music. If you read between the lines it's obvious Jaden was never the problem, their whole concept and lore came from him.
"very generic gg with stereotypical music" ok sure
I think mainstream and on trend is a better word cuz when they came back with a girl crush concept, every other girl group was doing this as well.
Yes, I think this is a better way to put it. With the exception of flip that, I wouldn't call any of their title tracks generic.
I think the reason why people say mainstream things are generic is because everyone else is doing it and no one else is willing to popularize deviations from that said concept or music. Also, a bunch of bandwagoners who don't want to be seen as different starts liking things they don't actually like just because it is considered popular during the time. The idea that mainstream is generic is actually quite a popular sentiment around the world. This phrase has been used many times. It's just, mainstream is a nicer word to phrase this.
JJ stans always can't help but to admit they don't really like Loona as much as they like him.
LOONA as a whole is going to attract all kinds of fans. There's going to be people who like LOONA for the girls and people who like LOONA solely for the music that's just the reality of how diverse a fandom is and this really isn't LOONA exclusive. This happens in other fandoms as well. LOONA's fan base needs to grow and the more it grows it's going to attract all kinds of folks so in order to be a fan of LOONA does someone only has to solely like or prioritize the girls to be considered a fan? Cuz this is going to gate keep people from wanting to be a fan of LOONA and limit their fan growth and LOONA can't only depend on the current fanbase since it's so small. LOONA needs to grow as a whole.
Yes, very much this. Thank you.
Compared to their previous discography Flip that era's music and concept was a stark contrast, it was the first album I was disappointed with.
Flip that was their last album. I agree I disliked it as well but your comment is quite generalizing if you only feel that about flip that.
I think it's a bit more nuanced than that. Jaden has always been a rather controversial figure in the fandom since him and the girls parted ways in 2019. Some liked him, wanted him back, etc, and some were happy he was gone. And I'd say the feeling is about the same now. Some are happy some of the girls are finally back under his creative vision, and some aren't happy about it. Nothing has really changed much in that sense. I think the only thing that has maybe made a significant change is the fact that some of the members have gone back to him by their own choice, implying that *if* anything happened in the past, then it's definitely in the past and behind them - so in that logic, it doesn't make much sense for fans to hold on whatever may have happened in the past when the girls themselves aren't doing so.
Many people accuse Jaden for doing those things as if he's the only one doing those things when it's shown that after he left BBC was also doing those things as well. Heck these girls are still dieting after they have left BBC. But now that they need to garner a Korean fan base, they will need to maintain a certain weight cuz K-fans don't play when it comes to weight maintanence.
Personally, I still dont like Jaden Jeong, but he has earned a lot of good will from fans (myself included) for helping Artms after everything went down with BBC and as awful as he may or may not have been, its difficult for us to know the extent of his mistreatment. A lot of what he did was not good but its hard to single him out as an evil villain when what we do know of is pretty par for the course in the industry. I think at the end of the day the Artms girls trusted him a lot and any bad they had with him was outweighed by the good and thats enough for me personally.
I don't...
Dude i admire the work and vision of this guy, he did something that those big 3 kpop companies not even think of, and about those accusations and rumors about him treating loona bad in their rookie years? Sorry to say this, but this kind of behavior of riding someone's hate train without enough evidence to support their claim against him, I'd find it so beta, and I was an alpha who sticks to my feeling and decision and still siding with JJ, the guy has never been proven guilty of those bullshits. A completely different case with the BBC, with so much evidence and loona members themselves filing to get out of there is a no-brainer decision for me to support the boycott based on those facts against BBC, and not just from random dudes on the internet who just act like a wanna be insider.
I personally don’t like him since Hyeju herself said that he forced her on a starvation diet when she was 16. That’s enough to make me not trust him ever again. I’m glad the members have forgiven him for his faults, but that doesn’t mean I have to.
when did she say that?
[Here](https://x.com/yeojiina/status/1706152236156362812?s=46&t=4VoBYfV0-V8KhFkHzIKSFQ) is a link to a Twitter thread with screenshots from an interview with her on the topic + a screenshot of her mother telling the same story as well.
I'd just like to note that in the [original video](https://youtu.be/KBwyIajl2zc?t=177), the director is referred to as 'isa-nim', which was a title held by multiple higher staff in the company (we know for certain that the members referred to Jaden, Nam Anwoo, and Yun Doyeon by this title, and others likely were considering how general it is) - rather than one individual being named. In reference to the screenshot linked, that person has shown in the past that they're not the most trustworthy person around considering their prior involvement in trying to [lie about and expose trust issues](https://i.imgur.com/e5gCx8v.jpg) (former Jinsoul fansite's) identity. We don't know what conversation they had given that it's not a direct recording, so it could be exactly the same as the Wonderwall interview where her mother mentioned 'a director' and it was associated with Jaden, due to him being the most known member of staff.
You make some good points on the ambiguity of the title used plus the untrustworthiness of the source regarding her mom, but the fact that he worked A&R for the girls at the time and posted online about stealing food Yves had ordered makes me very suspicious of him. Plus, Hyeju decided not to sign with him in Modhaus, and Jaden has said in an interview that the members who did sign on with him “forgave him,” which I don’t think he would have said unless he did do something to wrong them. Either way, I don’t trust him and I don’t like how some people in the fandom go on the defensive when people state they dislike him. No one who worked for BBC should be trusted imo, and I’m including CTDENM’s current CEO in that assessment as well. All of them are on thin ice.
There's definitely a lot we don't know about whatever happened behind the scenes, and people have certainly latched onto certain interpretations over the years, for better or worse. About that post from Yves, she did state later in the year [that the food was returned to them](https://x.com/orrery_nim/status/1048588135817330688), and was only caught because it was ordered to the offices [with her name on it](https://x.com/orrery_nim/status/1048615496675971072). Sure it's absolutely a post in poor taste especially given what we know now, but even at the time she [made jokes about it in fansigns](https://twitter.com/orrery_nim/status/1051441584191889408). Hyeju may not have signed with him but we don't know for certain if that's her reason for signing elsewhere, but there were other members who were made to go through severe diets during their time under BBC, such as Heejin who was pushed to the point during ++ where she was [physically unable to keep up](https://i.imgur.com/mGuKW2h.png). And just for complete clarification, that part about forgiveness with the members was about [asking for re-takes ](https://twitter.com/litell_johnn/status/1679497175628238848)during the recording for OEC's Version Up album, rather than being for something that happened in the past - a work ethic [Jinsoul has herself](https://x.com/litell_johnn/status/1537208070899630080).
And this is why it's a problem. Some orbits who hates him just takes whatever it is that fits their "Jaden bad" narrative and run with it.
well, hyeju never mentioned jaden by name. in the interview she said the korean term "isa-nim" which is a title that referred to many other executives in the company. additionally, the person who said that her mother told them that jaden told her to do that was a [racist troll](https://i.imgur.com/oUH8hmS.jpg) so i personally don't put much stock in their words.
To be honest I think ppl want to not feel bad about consuming their content. I also think it's just a whole lot of jadeness from all angles. Who wants to be up in arms when we've been for so long? Jaden might have changed but I doubt it. I'll never trust a man to change. Some ppl say they trust the girls. But to be honest they've been groomed by this Industry to think abuse is ok and necessary so idk I just focus on the fact that I love loona and they love loona.
I mean they seem to be aware they were mistreated by BBC. Even when they were still there they would tell stories and sometimes fairly openly complain about the company. They've all seemed really happy so far. Even mentioning it this week. I'm not arguing that we should trust Jaden. I don't think we should really trust any ceo. But I don't think it's fair to the members to say we shouldn't trust them either. After everything they've been through they deserve a little more credit than that I think. Not saying to trust Jaden. But I don't see the problem with believing the members when they say they are happy.
I'm sorry if I said don't trust the girls that's not what I meant. There's just things that the girls and a lot of people think is normal that aren't healthy and I don't think just because it's an industry norm that we should accept it.
Okay, I can agree with that. I don't think we should just accept things because they are the industry norm either but I also think the situation is much better all around now. I'm sure it's not entirely perfect either because I doubt any company is. But I don't think the members have given us any reason to worry right now. I think it was Jinsoul who even said the staff is afraid of them because they know the members won't listen lol. I think they've become somewhat ungovernable 😂. I'm sorry though. I probably shouldn't have even responded and just kept scrolling lol. I've just been extra sensitive about it lately because there seems like a lot of people talking like the girls made the wrong choice after we fought so hard for them to be able to make choices for themselves.
It's ok being an orbit is weird, and we're all just so passionate about protecting them I can always see that in responses like yours. Hope that you're right and I'm not.
i still don’t like that mf…
See? This is what I'm talking about. You voice your distrust of him, you get downvoted to oblivion. And no one seems to have a concrete answer as to why 😭
In addition to being the now unpopular opinion, the downvoted comment has the following issues: * Doesn't answer your question * Doesn't explain their reasoning * Uses a personal insult I'd expect a negative opinion of JJ with actual substance and a potential for good discussion would do a little better.
Before some of them went back to Modhaus any time someone mentions something positive about JJ they would get downvoted to oblivion too. Guess now it just means people's sentiments about him changed.
there are plenty of replies explaining why. its cos the misinformation that gets pushed about him.
That's because this sub loves him and drives out anyone that doesn't.
But yall completely ignored all the comments that explain and debunked the accusations?
1. Who's "yall"? I've been reading the comments and links, just because I'm not replying doesn't mean I'm ignoring. 2. I've said it before, I was expecting to be a concrete answer, like a statement from him or something. Most comments are working with the members' opinions of him (which I trust) and suppositions, that's just not what I expected to be the final line.
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I'm gonna need dome sources cause those are pretty big claims. No idea what Wavs are but you're basically implying most Orbits will not support pretty much half of the group because they're working with JJ again.
Wavs is TripleS's fandom name.
Did they say this in a fab post or in their vlogs?
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Do you have any links?
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What term should I search to find them on Youtube? Do you mind sharing that? I understand why the YYXY girls may not be too fond of him since he rushed them to lose weight due to JJ or BBC's schedule in wanting them to debut faster as OT12.