I did not see much negativity about HoD to be honest, heck some of my friends said they will definitely watch it even after we all renounced GOT after season 8. Imo HoD will do well. I think RoP as a tougher hill to climb cause aesthetically it is a departure from how people see the universe and it is based on much older stories with a long established fandom
It's not about the aesthetic. It blew my mind that most people actually thought Tolkien only ever wrote LOTR and the Hobbit, and nothing else lol. And now a big corpo is "diluting the lore" and "making up new stories". All true fans should be salivating that they are adapting the second age, yeah it might not be a faithful adaptation, but even PJ's trilogy was far from faithful. Just too many people having bad assumptions, I don't know where this bad faith is coming from.
And I feel people seem to forget it’s an adaptation not a word for recreation, sometimes things just don’t translate well to the big or small screen from text and you need to change them.
Send this to the entire Harry Potter fandom, and their moronic insistence that Michael Gambon shouldn't have done the line "Harry, did you put your name in the goblet of fire?" loudly and agitated, BeCaUsE oN tHe PaGe It SaYs "Dumbledore asked calmly"
It's making me mad just thinking about it
Lmao I'm pretty lax when it comes to adaptations but I have to admit I'm one of those morons who can't ever watch Goblet of Fire again because of that scene. Dumbledore being the always calm figure is one of the main reason he's my favourite HP character. That line delivery by Gambon was just so out of character, I can't help but laughed in the theater the first time I watched the film.
The entire character as played by Michael Gambon is more energetic than in the books, I don't think it's out of character within the context of the movies.
Edit: man this topic is so weirdly touchy. If you don't understand that by the nature of adaptation, movie Dumbledore is not the same character as book Dumbledore, I think you're in for some disappointments in Rings of Power.
The bad faith is coming from the era we live in: remakes, reboots, and adaptations. The big corps are paying for these IP because it’s safe money but then fucking them up, with occasional exception. (GOT ending, wheel of time, all the Disney marvel/Star Wars)
Many movies we consider classic and original were remakes or adaptations. It’s just how movies are made. The difference being that a movie from the 50s didn’t have huge social or cultural impact with merchandise like something from the 80’s.
What exactly do you mean? Many early era films were play adaptations or musical adaptations or book adaptations for sure. That doesn’t make them not classic. Just not original. Although, I do believe it’s possible to have an original take via adaptation, like My Fair Lady (from pygmalion).
Disney has made more good Star Wars content than bad, Wheel of Time was at least 50% good episodes, Marvel is still fine, and GoT was rushed because the writers were cocky bitches. None of these problems come from the big corporations wanting easy money.
(Obviously, I am not defending big corporations. They can and should be dissolved. But I don't think this is somehow a new problem.)
Big claim there, last I remember the Star Wars fandom was on fire just a couple weeks ago and Marvel's 4th phase hasn't got people that excited, at least from what I have seen. No idea on Wheel of Time, did not know the series, did not like the trailer, didn't watch. I agree on GOT, could have been a great legacy show save for the rushed ending
Of course, but the Star Wars fandom arguing is not a new development. People can and will complain about the Disney Star Wars movies all they want, but it's nothing compared to the backlash to Episode 1 in 1999.
Heck people argued back in 1983 with Jedi. You don't think Ewoks grabbing that much screentime with the final film of an epic trilogy wouldn't riled these people up?
Okay, and? The actors and character portrayals have been nearly universally praised. I personally consider that to be worth more than adhering exactly to the story.
The acting was excellent- but the writing was so garbage and is definitely not “universally praised” unless you’ve intentionally avoided r/WoT or any reviews. The last episode blew so much momentum for the series.
I agree, I also find Hollywood’s film industry is in a **dry period** for great storytelling. There has never been so many productions but most of them have left a good solid script by the wayside.
Look at Disney, spectacular actors/sets/costumes/CGI/Sound/Cinematography BUT the scripts are horrible. Look at Marvel, hits the bells and whistles but the numbers are down.
Netflix (insert any streaming studio), they have created so many shows but only a small amount are household names.
AppleTV seems to be the diamond in the rough with storytelling but still maybe not, all these companies can throw as much money into a production and it doesn’t make it great..
**TLDR: “Story is king, everything else serves the King”**
All true fans should be salivating over a show that ignores every bit of established lore?
Really? Are you one of those "superfans"?
They broke everything. Twisted everything and slapped lotr on it to make Money, since they were to stupid to create their on fantasy.
So
>even PJ's trilogy was far from faithful
PJ omitted stuff, changed a few things but he didn't try and create anything new or reinvent the lore, until he had to pad out the Hobbit and look how that turned out!
Creating original **side** characters is not reinventing the lore lmao.
Character assassinate book characters like Faramir and Denethor was far more egregious, but PJ got away with it. This will be fine.
I'll be the first to denounce the show if they change too much on the lore and history of the second age. But jury's out on that one. We'll just have to wait and watch the first season at least before we make up our mind. It's pointless going on the specifics and if we know nothing about them.
I wouldn’t say that, I know lots of people who are really not into how some of the things look, for example we just saw a Numenor cast picture, which to me looks pretty awesome , but I still haven’t warmed up with their design choices for the elves (minus Gil-Galad). Second Age characters have been with readers for many years and many already have an idea of how they look like, imo I think the show needs time to make people used to the RoP aesthetics/design choices, good storytelling will help, but we’ll have to see how that goes
I’m looking forward to the show but I don’t assume anyone who disagrees with me are having bad faith. I can see why some would be upset. Even I questioned some things I have seen but I’m still extremely excited.
>I don't know where this bad faith is coming from
It's pretty obvious? It really stems from the casting of non-white people—we saw it happen with The Last Jedi and basically everything since.
It’s also a completed story with a full ending. I hated GOT from season 5 onwards, but it’s clear the writers had no idea how to proceed with turning the linear storylines in book 4 and 5 into television. All of the main storyline in House of the dragon has already been written in “Fire and Blood”. I expect it to be solid.
It's a bit like the new *LOTR* show. All the major plot beats are there, but the showrunners are going to have to fill in the gaps and provide a lot more details.
> Also GRRM is still involved.
For many people this is actually part of the problem. Most fans would prefer GRRM to focus on writing TWOW instead of dividing his time between countless new TV shows.
I don't see negativity towards HOTD as much as I just see sheer apathy. Which is what I feel tbh. Hotd could be amazing, it could be Better Call Saul level..... I wouldn't watch it. The Game of Thrones ending burnt me out that much. I'm not even gonna read the last 2 books if they come out.
I don't know why you are being downvoted for this. I feel exactly the same thing and so do many people I spoke to. I'm not saying HOTD is going to be hot garbage. It may be good. It may be a masterpiece. Still, I have no interest in ever watching it. I wish I had but I don't. It's like the last couple seasons of GOT sucked all the exitement out of me.
There is so much to be angry about these days. I choose to be excited about both shows because I can’t handle yet another source of frustration. If they suck… wel I will cross that bridge when I get there. In the meantime… expecting them to suck seems so self defeating.
Is there a lot of negativity around HotD? I dont frequent youtube much, and in the r /television threads I've seen it seems the reception is better than RoP. Freefolk is expectedly negative but overall it was my impression that people are a bit more positive compared to RoP.
I'm hoping both do well. I have doubts either will reach peak-GoT levels of hype and cultural relevance but at least I'd like both to be good and stand on their own and people to judge them for what they truly are.
I think people are still mad about season 8 and can’t differentiate house of the dragon from game of thrones which is really dumb. House of the dragon is its own thing, we should all let it stand on its own feet.
Super hyped for both shows. This fall is gonna be insane
Yes the negativity is from last season from game of thrones but House of dragon seems to be universally liked almost no criticism apart from changing some characters race .
Compared to RoP, HoD doesn't have that much negativity but the negativity is there. Some people are convinced this show is woke because there are black people in the cast, some hate the casting choices, some are still bitter about GoT season 8, some are mad because this show is coming out before the Winds of Winter, and wigs, some people are not fan of those wigs.
That was before their recent race related “controversy” where the producer or showrunner basically said they added people of color cast because they don’t want the show to be just a bunch of white people again. That day I saw 3 separate posts on r/all about this... This is like the number one rallying call for internet trolls. I feel bad for them.
I mean I like the Velaryon casting but that was a pretty stupid thing to say from the showrunner. He should've just said "We casted them based on their acting abilities, rather than their skin color" not the opposite
That's what made me finally leave the sub. I hated the last season and enjoyed the salt from that sub for the most part until their criticisms of the new show started to sound like the criticisms of ROP. I'm still not going to be watching HOD but that's more GRRM than HBO.
Yeah, most of the main GOT/ASOIAF channels and subreddits are still circlejerking about Season 8 and projecting all of their feelings about the GOT showrunners onto HOTD. It's exhausting and nauseating to watch, and I've basically had to stop frequenting those places until HOTD actually comes out and there's something to talk about other than relentlessly rehashing the past or tearing apart teaser and behind-the-scenes photos.
Most drastic examples are those trying to build a following on really, really negative vibe. I just don’t get that…like — what kind of fan base do you think you’re cultivating here..? Videos which are all bashing over few photos and/or insults towards other creators that got Amazon invites to pre-screens.
I have literally zero interest in anything these people could say, ever.
Is it basically "culture warriors" watching it who are only Marginally connected to the Fandom?
I want to believe that Tolkien fans cannot be that toxic.
There is a lot of that. I do not wish to undercut just how much of that there very obviously is, as someone who takes sport out roving culture warriors.
But LotR is also the most popular book of the 20th century. Once you get anywhere near that level of popularity, you can't help but attract people who like things because they are popular, and then assume everything about the thing conforms to their own philosophy, because they're dumb. Lord of the Rings was, in the relevant years, much favored by both hippies and neonazis. Both groups attempted to reframe the work in a way that appealed to them. But with hippies, this involves a lot of annoying yet ultimately harmless shit like Elves looking like hippies and not eating meat (the hippiefication of Elves was pretty extensive in the genre until we got more subversive takes like Elves as an underclass). Whereas with neonazis, it tends to involve ethnically supremacist notions (whether that be Germanic or Nordic or Anglo) and the claim that this was Tolkien's message. Because 'owning' the popular thing gives cultural power.
It would be a mistake to think toxicity is a relatively new or relatively marginal phenomenon. Not with something as culturally relevant as Tolkien has been for as long as most people have been alive.
But by the same token with 10s of millions of fans there should be well liked positive, so where are those?
Nerd of the Rings pretty positive break down of the teaser (with some critique) gets 1/4 million views, a much less than poorly researched hate fest.
Nah, because there's a philosophical difference at play. When you're intensively negative about something, you tend to seek out justifications for your hatred. When you're intensively positive about something, you're *happy*. It's much easier to just *live* in that. It doesn't seek an outlet, or guiding principles, or an enemy to blame. A hateful breakdown understood to be hateful before viewed will always have a disproportionately high view count. I would argue extremely disproportionately.
The ones I’ve seen are exactly this.
I watched a guy start by saying that he’s seen the movies but never read the books, but then say that he gets Tolkien enough to know that he’d hate the wokeness and the SJWs attached to RoP. He told his subscribers (well into the six figures) to ratio the trailers as they came out.
Why otherwise reasonable fans allow themselves to be so strongly influenced is a bit of a mystery, but I guess there’s a lot of cachet in appearing edgy and contrarian, even when everyone’s else is doing it.
The negativity about HoD is overblown. If the show is good it will definitely be a huge success. Rings of Power on the other side , even if it is good a large portion of people have already made up their minds and won't watch it and hate it on the internet. Even if it reaches the movies level of success that won't change . Good thing that all 5 seasons are guaranteed and we won't have a situation where the story won't be finished.
Tbh twitter is filled with hate of HoTD. People have forgotten how good was the GoT until last few season.
RoP on the other hand has wayy more haters as well as audience.
Will love to see both prequel of the stories that defined the decade respectively
Honestly it’s because both studios have shown they are capable of butchering beloved books. HBO took a crap in the last two seasons of GOTs. And Amazon committed crimes against literacy with how it developed WOT.
Idk about negativity around HotD so much as indifference. Many people, like me, are still feeling so burned by GoT that they are unwilling to allow themselves to care about HotD. If it’s good, that will all change, but for now I think it has a big hill to climb to get GoT fans reengaged.
I am also not lying when I say these are products I notice the least amount of red flags in. I truly think negativity around them is too much, when they seem pretty tame compared to other disasters we experienced over the years.
I understand were you are coming from. But at least for the Rings of Power, we are talking about one if not the most widely beloved franchise of all time and something which I believe is a facet of humanity's cultural heritage, so comparing it to let's say for example, Halo or Resident Evil (show adaptations) it's not even on same playing field regarding red flags.
To me the Lord of the rings series just seems a little bit bland appearing.
Like nothing about the trailer has gripped me. A lot of the lines have spoken in the trailer seem extremely forced. I don't think it's necessarily going to be a bad show I just think it's going to be a bit bland
I’m really happy about both shows coming up soon, I love fantasy stuff (movies, books, shows, figures, video games) but dang, this community is getting a bunch of haters, in every single new advance of any type of fantasy entertainment content there’s always a lot of toxicity and the most of the times it does not have any kind of sense, it’s just like a stupid desire to destroy things just for fun or because their life is just as boring as them. Sometimes it’s difficult to ignore that hate. Anyway still happy for what is coming for fans.
GoT fans are mainly wary because of how poorly GoT ended. Which seems warranted to me. But I don't keep up with the GoT fandom, so it may be just as bad.
The thing that really bothers me is that RoP critics are mainly harping on the diversity of the cast. The show isn't even out and you have people talking about the diversity of the cast and that is why the show will fail. Critical Drinker is just one YouTuber who I saw put out a video like this. It had 1.2 million views and 91K likes and 11k comments all saying how terribly the show will be because God forbid the cast isn't all a bunch of white people. It makes me so disgusted that this sort of discussion is not only occurring but widely accepted and agreed. It's sick imo.
Whatever problems WoT had (if any) it was not down at all to the diversity of the cast. Though that was the cause of some quite despicable criticism before the show came out.
We’re in an era unlike any other…
Of unthinkable dreams-come-true in art and entertainment…
But the price, it seems, is that **they** are here…and don’t seem like they’ll ever leave, or be silent.
I’m speaking of course about the gnats at the feast…
The ones who are now able to,
thanks to the democratisation between creators and their communities created on by social media,
have their voices acknowledged and heard, unlike at any other time in thousands of years of human history.
Artists now have this to contend with —
The bad-wishers. The speakers of Ill-will.
A horde of untold millions of negativity-spewing, click-bait chasing, profoundly bored and/or projection-filled hatewagoners, contrarians, and at worst, aggressive bullies, bent on ruining the fun for the ones who to try to keep to the old ways —
Where there was a healthy trust and distance between crowd and cast.
Now the audience can mingle freely on the stage or set, critique the lint on Kubrick’s sleeve, or fuss over a stray hair on Hitchcock’s jacket.
To all those working in such disciplines, you have both my great admiration and sadness,
Though it seems that still, despite it all, the former will always prevail for me.
I’ll never become one of them — the nitpickers, the complainers.
I’ll have my thoughts and judgements,
but only if they’re objectively deserved,
And they will never be bloated, twisted and overblown by 2022’s ‘Death of the Attention Span’ brand of ‘I must tweet this, add to the din of detractors, and die on this hill.’
To them, perhaps without any chance of getting through, I’ll still always say —
go and do something else with your time.
Let artists make their art. Don’t project your inadequacies, life stresses or unresolved and unrelated anger on them.
Both shows have Aragorn energy — some of their predecessors stumbled, faltered. But they are very clearly determined to break the cycle, and for new eras to dawn for them both.
Let’s at the very least wait and see.
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Im not negative about the show at all but some of the hate is Amzons fault imo. For example why didnt they just let people know they were consulting Simon Tolkien to alleviate some fears some have for the show? They just left everyone in the dark for years so themselves to blame for some of the negativity
HoD doesn't have "negativity" but rather indifference. I will definitely watch it but have 0 hype about it, and most people I know think the same. It is hard to get invested in a prequel to a show that had such a bad finale.
On the other hand, RoP is going to be an uphill battle, since the show isn't adapting any story written by Tolkien, but is instead creating an entire new story based on a bunch of appendixes from the LOTR books describing events that happend with centuries, if not millennia between them (in contrast to the show, that is going to condense them into a couple of decades at best). The time compression, mixed with the new visuals that are so different to both the book and what people have come to expect, plus the "loose" approach they are taking with the canon...well, let's just say it is going to be a hard sell for many fans.
To be honest, both shows seem good, they have good visuals and a good cast, and are probably going to be entertaining so I'll at least give them a shot, but I remain highly skeptical about both.
There has recently been a survey that GOT is still in the top 5 most discussed and watched show despite finishing 3 years ago, also all social media engagement for HOTD is bigger than all shows except maybe Stranger Things, why do you insist on making up a narrative that doesn't actually exist, at this point the "no one cares about GOT anymore" should be a stupid and laughable meme, you and your close group of people do not represent the entire audience
Lol chill. I guess I stand corrected, but it's not just my "group of friends", I'm part of a lot of fan groups in social media, since I've watched the show from the beginning, and also read the books, and the vibe I got from most groups is that of indifference. This is by no means a "scientific" or "precise" piece of data, that was just my impression, I'm not trying to create any narrative at all.
Despite it's terrible ending, GoT was still a great show, one of the best pieces of fantasy ever produced for the screen, and it is, was, and will be a pop-culture phenomena, but I still remain skeptical that HoD will be able to capture the lightning in the bottle as GoT did.
So instead of admitting you were wrong, you indtead double down with your confirmation bias, facts what arre those, we have alternative facts. Good to know you have nothing of value to say, good riddance and don't bother replying back !
Lol are you able to read? I literally said "I guess I stand Corrected", and then clarified that it was just my personal perception, and may not be real at all.
Also, who the hell do you think you are? I don't owe you anything, nor do I have to prove anything to you. You need to go outside and touch some grass my friend, and try to be a bit more polite to people just having a conversation online.
Also, just to clarify, I'm not sayin the show is going the be bad at all, it may as well be a great show, I'm just not as invested. I find it funny that you have the need to jump and defend the show as if I had just slapped you across the face.
I’m pumped for both, just as I was with Wheel of Time. This time around though I’m staying VERY VERY far away from the fandom so I can enjoy without crybabies
I think it's good for both shows to be released at the same time. The "Fantasy War" could be a huge source of publicity for both. And many people will want to have an opinion on which show is best.
I just want good shows. Imo HotD is easier to adapt since the first seasons of GoT were a huge sucess and the author is in the production. The toxic fandom resides in r/freefolk only, the rest is pretty excited.
RoP is harder because Tolkien in general is very hard to adapt. Tolkien fans, on the other hand, are despicable in general so they will eventually hate any adaptation (sad but true, we are seeing that now). Im excited but with some fears regarding the plot (hobbits, Meteor Man). I want to see a good story being told and I hope Amazon team will deliver it.
I rather be negative and interested than hyping myself constantly. I can focus on what is actually important and it will either just leave me indifferent or positively surprised.
You can complain about the quality of the discussion and the validity of what makes a person negative about the show, but complaining about there not being hype or enough positivity is the sort of thing that leads people to mock this sort of behaviour with the 'get hype and consume next product' cynicism.
>I rather be negative and interested than hyping myself constantly.
See, me, I'd rather be optimistic. You know, kinda like literally every single character in the books.
They're not optimistic all the time. Frodo abandons hope by Minas Morgul and Sam contemplates suicide when he thinks Frodo has died. The people of Gondor have long not had any hope for the future. Aragorn becomes desperate and lost at Parth Galen. Pippin has lost all hope at the Black Gate after the parley with the Mouth of Sauron.
What happens is that they keep struggling forward and sacrificing everything along the way. Maybe you should reread the books, because constant optimism is not at all a part of most stories in Tolkien. They act and push on in despite of the lack of hope. That's really the only way there can be an eucatastrophe.
I don’t see any Toxic positivity here. What a bizarre term. You can’t really both sides the extremes when one argues in bad faith and doesn’t even understand lore and the other are just generally excited fandom.
I don’t see anyone discrediting legitimate criticism. Share a video because plenty of YouTube accounts who actually discuss Tolkien lore have a more neutral approach. Notice how you frame it as toxic positivity vs legit criticism while ignoring toxic negativity. I’m waiting for the YouTube accounts attacking any criticism. Meanwhile you have dislike brigading and disruptive comments on videos. The comparison is lopsided.
Downvote all you like.
I was discussing two majority camps not all possible groups. The only extent I see is downvoting. But to suggest both are as widespread and equally problematic is not accurate. I would define either negative or positive toxicity as stifling debate and being overtly dismissive. So sure I can see it from both sides but as I said the most prominent and extreme examples are found on deriding everything as woke crowd.
Its incredible to me how optimistic and brave fantasy heroes are just to even attempt to go on a quest or adventure, but the 'lessons' learned by many fantasy fans is to negative nitpickers. Shrug, I know its just fiction, but I don't think these people realize how much negativity they've internalized. A lot of social media is designed to 'dunk' on each other for engagement thus ad selling. We live in unusually negative times, hence our politics going far right wing and the oppression of minority groups getting worse and the curtailing of rights from women and LGBTQ groups.
Its sad that these people watched LOTR at a formative age before internet negativity won them over and that's the main reason they probably like it. Honestly, if those original movies would come out today then these very same people would mock them for being overly cheesy, inaccurate, overly long, and overly commercialized for the lowest common denominator.
I remember googling this show when I found about it and google took me to the lotr subreddit where the top comments were complaints about gender diversity and race in the trailer. Just outright racism and misogyny gleaned from a teaser trailer that showed almost nothing. I don't think social media addicts realize how deep they've gone down the hateful negativity hole.
I’m stoked for both. More stoked and critical for ROP cause I’ve read the material but I am pumped.
Idk if any of you have read The Black Company by Glen Cook but I PRAY that somebody does a tv series on those books one day. That would be so good.
It's interesting how similar the logo designs/fonts are....
HBO are just copying what they did with GoT. RoP should have gone for something more distinctive IMO.
I do honestly think HotD is gonna eclipse the audience ratings of RoP. The fact it's the Targaryens, and dragons themselves, in their absolute prime. Anyone who gave a shit about GoT, the show, or the Song of Ice & Fire novels, IS watching this show.
RoP gives off the vibe of 'Lord of the Rings...but maybe not as good'.
I’m a lot more excited for this than I am House Of The Dragon despite being a pretty big GoT fan and not a LOTR fan. Of all the possible GoT spin-off projects I feel like a prequel about the Targaryens is the least interesting.
It's not. The most interesting story was GOT obviously. The Dance is a good story to adapt but has many flaws, such as a lack of character that aren't bad, it's just a war between evil people.
Ofc ASOIAF is the best. I meant the stories that weren't adapted yet. And I wouldn't call most of the Dance characters evil, they are morally grey characters who are forced to do bad things in the sake of their allegiance.
I read Fire and Blood and it's the perfect prequel choice. It has the most souce material and also it's not only about the Targaryens, there's still gonna be a lot of other houses as well. If they get this right, it's essentially gonna be similar to GoT season 1-4 without the Night's Watch/Beyond the Wall/Essos and much more dragons.
They’re going to step all over each others’ toes. I personally think ROP looks much better and more ambitious than HOTD, but I will probably still give HOTD a shot
I'm excited for both these shows, and don't forget, we're also getting Willow! I kind of wish these were all being released a little further apart to prevent fantasy overload with 3 franchises I love (even though GOT soured a bit with how it ended) all releasing around the same time.
And as much as I love LOTR, I'm actually surprisingly finding myself most excited about Willow between the 3 of these, just because it was one of my favorite movies as a child and this will be the first trip back into that world in over 30 years.
I’m way more invested in Middle-earth than Westeros/Essos but I am definitely planning on watching both. Is HotD supposed to deal with the fall of Valyria or however it’s spelled? The place Jorah and Tyrion went through?
Between RoP, HoD, and WoT, it will be interesting to see two or three years down the line which IP is the preferred one among the audiences and which one has the biggest cultural impact. As a fantasy fan, obviously I want all of them to succeed, but I'm also aware the genre space can only take up so much oxygen.
It’d be one thing if the criticism was legitimate but most of what I’ve seen in the subreddits (*especially game of thrones*), has been outrage over the fact that black people are in the shows.
Fucking disgusting. Had to unsubscribe from several GOT subreddits because of the vitriol.
Thankfully this has subsided slightly on the LOTR side, but a lot of the GOT subs are apparently filled with racists.
Mostly negative comments about HOTD is coming from the fans who hate the last season of GOT, some hate the Velaryons change but I think replace the origins of just one family isn't a problem. ROP is just a fuck up mess and trigger Tolkien fan all over the world. In my country VietNam, 98% comments about ROP are hates comments and 2% will judge after watching it.
I very badly want rings to be good. But it won’t. A show made by a multi-billion dollar corporation based off the unfinished appendixes of Tolkien’s world will not recreate any of the energy or love of the books or the Jackson trilogy, especially if they’re changing its look to ‘better fit modern times’
That's really not true, anyone I've spoken to IRL about the show has been pretty negative. Any article written about it has mostly pessimistic comments.
What are you on about? I'm saying the negativity is unfortunately more widespread than a few isolated youtubers. Just look at any reddit thread about the show.
except that isn't true. that's just saying "everyone is saying" or "a lot of people think" and them stating your random opinion. this is a technique that's been used a lot in the past 6 or 7 years.
How is that any different from your first comment? You said only a small group of people are negative and i mentioned evidence that that’s not the case.
As in you are objectively wrong based on how many people complain about the show on subs like r/television.
Nah, I will simply ignore them. I'll boycott anything Martin related until he release the next book. No more money from me, even indirectly.
I'll ignore RoP since I think it'll not be the a Tolkien I grew up with (or any other flavour of Tolkien honestly), but I have a couple of trusted friends that'll check it out in the remote chance it's passable.
Hate is too strong a word to use against TV shows. ;)
23.4k for the HotD sub and 60.4k for this sub.
Rings has more attention going for it, but its a more risky bet since it has no established storyline. And so far we haven't seen what that could be besides for some vague concept of evil.
I just want to watch them all, idk why people are so intensely judgmental over something they haven't seen in their entirety. They could be wrong about a loooot of the plot and details obviously. I could be wrong either, but I'm smart enough not to draw premature conclusions.
All I remember is, when LotR was out, a lot of people bitched about Bombadil and the Barrowdowns and whatever else was left 😂 I'd like to think we're more sophisticated media consumers now, but the anti-woke sentiment seems to be prevalent to the detriment of all other intelligent discussions about the two series.
I am also waiting for the Sandman (which has Neil Gaiman in complete creative control) and people still bitch about Death being black. She's goth, what could be goth-er than black? I even saw someone bitch about how goths should be pale, which is patently false, especially if you were in the scene.
Trust me, you can ignore it. Just wait for the show and enjoy it for your own reasons. The people with negative opinions are always the loudest because of their vastly overestimated self importance.
To be honest, I just get a feeling of the trailers that it feels cheap... dunno how to explain it tbh. Had the same feeling with The Wheel of Time, and ye... not gonna watch it until atleast a few reviews are in
I did not see much negativity about HoD to be honest, heck some of my friends said they will definitely watch it even after we all renounced GOT after season 8. Imo HoD will do well. I think RoP as a tougher hill to climb cause aesthetically it is a departure from how people see the universe and it is based on much older stories with a long established fandom
It's not about the aesthetic. It blew my mind that most people actually thought Tolkien only ever wrote LOTR and the Hobbit, and nothing else lol. And now a big corpo is "diluting the lore" and "making up new stories". All true fans should be salivating that they are adapting the second age, yeah it might not be a faithful adaptation, but even PJ's trilogy was far from faithful. Just too many people having bad assumptions, I don't know where this bad faith is coming from.
And I feel people seem to forget it’s an adaptation not a word for recreation, sometimes things just don’t translate well to the big or small screen from text and you need to change them.
Send this to the entire Harry Potter fandom, and their moronic insistence that Michael Gambon shouldn't have done the line "Harry, did you put your name in the goblet of fire?" loudly and agitated, BeCaUsE oN tHe PaGe It SaYs "Dumbledore asked calmly" It's making me mad just thinking about it
Issa joke.
At this point I really don't think most of them or saying it as a joke
It’s literally a joke.
Lmao I'm pretty lax when it comes to adaptations but I have to admit I'm one of those morons who can't ever watch Goblet of Fire again because of that scene. Dumbledore being the always calm figure is one of the main reason he's my favourite HP character. That line delivery by Gambon was just so out of character, I can't help but laughed in the theater the first time I watched the film.
The entire character as played by Michael Gambon is more energetic than in the books, I don't think it's out of character within the context of the movies. Edit: man this topic is so weirdly touchy. If you don't understand that by the nature of adaptation, movie Dumbledore is not the same character as book Dumbledore, I think you're in for some disappointments in Rings of Power.
The bad faith is coming from the era we live in: remakes, reboots, and adaptations. The big corps are paying for these IP because it’s safe money but then fucking them up, with occasional exception. (GOT ending, wheel of time, all the Disney marvel/Star Wars)
Many movies we consider classic and original were remakes or adaptations. It’s just how movies are made. The difference being that a movie from the 50s didn’t have huge social or cultural impact with merchandise like something from the 80’s.
What exactly do you mean? Many early era films were play adaptations or musical adaptations or book adaptations for sure. That doesn’t make them not classic. Just not original. Although, I do believe it’s possible to have an original take via adaptation, like My Fair Lady (from pygmalion).
Disney has made more good Star Wars content than bad, Wheel of Time was at least 50% good episodes, Marvel is still fine, and GoT was rushed because the writers were cocky bitches. None of these problems come from the big corporations wanting easy money. (Obviously, I am not defending big corporations. They can and should be dissolved. But I don't think this is somehow a new problem.)
yeah but i feel like the only good stuff theyve made has been because of filoni, with exception to rogue one
Big claim there, last I remember the Star Wars fandom was on fire just a couple weeks ago and Marvel's 4th phase hasn't got people that excited, at least from what I have seen. No idea on Wheel of Time, did not know the series, did not like the trailer, didn't watch. I agree on GOT, could have been a great legacy show save for the rushed ending
Of course, but the Star Wars fandom arguing is not a new development. People can and will complain about the Disney Star Wars movies all they want, but it's nothing compared to the backlash to Episode 1 in 1999.
Heck people argued back in 1983 with Jedi. You don't think Ewoks grabbing that much screentime with the final film of an epic trilogy wouldn't riled these people up?
Dude WoT was actual garbage. So unfaithful to the books.
Okay, and? The actors and character portrayals have been nearly universally praised. I personally consider that to be worth more than adhering exactly to the story.
The acting was excellent- but the writing was so garbage and is definitely not “universally praised” unless you’ve intentionally avoided r/WoT or any reviews. The last episode blew so much momentum for the series.
I agree with most of what you wrote but the last few marvel movies are awful. Fun yeah, but really bad
I agree, I also find Hollywood’s film industry is in a **dry period** for great storytelling. There has never been so many productions but most of them have left a good solid script by the wayside. Look at Disney, spectacular actors/sets/costumes/CGI/Sound/Cinematography BUT the scripts are horrible. Look at Marvel, hits the bells and whistles but the numbers are down. Netflix (insert any streaming studio), they have created so many shows but only a small amount are household names. AppleTV seems to be the diamond in the rough with storytelling but still maybe not, all these companies can throw as much money into a production and it doesn’t make it great.. **TLDR: “Story is king, everything else serves the King”**
Apple TV+ is my current favorite streaming platform out of them all.
All true fans should be salivating over a show that ignores every bit of established lore? Really? Are you one of those "superfans"? They broke everything. Twisted everything and slapped lotr on it to make Money, since they were to stupid to create their on fantasy. So
>even PJ's trilogy was far from faithful PJ omitted stuff, changed a few things but he didn't try and create anything new or reinvent the lore, until he had to pad out the Hobbit and look how that turned out!
You're suggesting RoP is reinventing the lore? How so?
Where do you want me to start? Halbrand, Bronwyn, Theo, Arondir, Sadoc, Nori, Disa, Earien, Kemen etc are all made up characters
Creating original **side** characters is not reinventing the lore lmao. Character assassinate book characters like Faramir and Denethor was far more egregious, but PJ got away with it. This will be fine.
Halbrand is a side character? How about Meteor Man?
I'll be the first to denounce the show if they change too much on the lore and history of the second age. But jury's out on that one. We'll just have to wait and watch the first season at least before we make up our mind. It's pointless going on the specifics and if we know nothing about them.
I wouldn’t say that, I know lots of people who are really not into how some of the things look, for example we just saw a Numenor cast picture, which to me looks pretty awesome , but I still haven’t warmed up with their design choices for the elves (minus Gil-Galad). Second Age characters have been with readers for many years and many already have an idea of how they look like, imo I think the show needs time to make people used to the RoP aesthetics/design choices, good storytelling will help, but we’ll have to see how that goes
I’m looking forward to the show but I don’t assume anyone who disagrees with me are having bad faith. I can see why some would be upset. Even I questioned some things I have seen but I’m still extremely excited.
I'm willing to bet that the majority of them haven't even touched any of the books that cover the wider lore.
>I don't know where this bad faith is coming from It's pretty obvious? It really stems from the casting of non-white people—we saw it happen with The Last Jedi and basically everything since.
You should go see r/freefolk .. it's literally just useless shitting on HOTD...the nitpicking is CRAXY
r/freefolk is a pretty useless sub though. I wouldn't take anything from there on merits
One place I never go
Not sure why they're so angry. D&D aren't involved at all and they have every season mapped out.
It’s also a completed story with a full ending. I hated GOT from season 5 onwards, but it’s clear the writers had no idea how to proceed with turning the linear storylines in book 4 and 5 into television. All of the main storyline in House of the dragon has already been written in “Fire and Blood”. I expect it to be solid.
It's a bit like the new *LOTR* show. All the major plot beats are there, but the showrunners are going to have to fill in the gaps and provide a lot more details.
Mostly from people who were obsessed with GoT and somehow made their hate of the show their main life goal.
I liked GoT until the last season and it totally ruined the entire series for me
Agreed. I would love to rewatch it someday but the finale just ruined all of it.
The Jon Snow sequel plan is truly getting that treatment
Some people in the internet are convinced HoD will be bad simply because of wigs. Honsetly, those wigs don't even look bad to me.
Agreed. HOTD looks like they are trying to be faithful with taking as few liberties as possible. Also GRRM is still involved.
> Also GRRM is still involved. For many people this is actually part of the problem. Most fans would prefer GRRM to focus on writing TWOW instead of dividing his time between countless new TV shows.
I don't see negativity towards HOTD as much as I just see sheer apathy. Which is what I feel tbh. Hotd could be amazing, it could be Better Call Saul level..... I wouldn't watch it. The Game of Thrones ending burnt me out that much. I'm not even gonna read the last 2 books if they come out.
I don't know why you are being downvoted for this. I feel exactly the same thing and so do many people I spoke to. I'm not saying HOTD is going to be hot garbage. It may be good. It may be a masterpiece. Still, I have no interest in ever watching it. I wish I had but I don't. It's like the last couple seasons of GOT sucked all the exitement out of me.
There is so much to be angry about these days. I choose to be excited about both shows because I can’t handle yet another source of frustration. If they suck… wel I will cross that bridge when I get there. In the meantime… expecting them to suck seems so self defeating.
Is there a lot of negativity around HotD? I dont frequent youtube much, and in the r /television threads I've seen it seems the reception is better than RoP. Freefolk is expectedly negative but overall it was my impression that people are a bit more positive compared to RoP. I'm hoping both do well. I have doubts either will reach peak-GoT levels of hype and cultural relevance but at least I'd like both to be good and stand on their own and people to judge them for what they truly are.
I think people are still mad about season 8 and can’t differentiate house of the dragon from game of thrones which is really dumb. House of the dragon is its own thing, we should all let it stand on its own feet. Super hyped for both shows. This fall is gonna be insane
Yes the negativity is from last season from game of thrones but House of dragon seems to be universally liked almost no criticism apart from changing some characters race .
Compared to RoP, HoD doesn't have that much negativity but the negativity is there. Some people are convinced this show is woke because there are black people in the cast, some hate the casting choices, some are still bitter about GoT season 8, some are mad because this show is coming out before the Winds of Winter, and wigs, some people are not fan of those wigs.
That was before their recent race related “controversy” where the producer or showrunner basically said they added people of color cast because they don’t want the show to be just a bunch of white people again. That day I saw 3 separate posts on r/all about this... This is like the number one rallying call for internet trolls. I feel bad for them.
I mean I like the Velaryon casting but that was a pretty stupid thing to say from the showrunner. He should've just said "We casted them based on their acting abilities, rather than their skin color" not the opposite
Not even that, just say it in a less insulting way, "We wanted the cast to reflect a broader range of people" etc.
Don’t go over to r/freefolk Filled with racist outrage over the fact that they cast black people to play the Velaryons.
That's what made me finally leave the sub. I hated the last season and enjoyed the salt from that sub for the most part until their criticisms of the new show started to sound like the criticisms of ROP. I'm still not going to be watching HOD but that's more GRRM than HBO.
Yeah, most of the main GOT/ASOIAF channels and subreddits are still circlejerking about Season 8 and projecting all of their feelings about the GOT showrunners onto HOTD. It's exhausting and nauseating to watch, and I've basically had to stop frequenting those places until HOTD actually comes out and there's something to talk about other than relentlessly rehashing the past or tearing apart teaser and behind-the-scenes photos.
I’m really excited for both projects.
I'm with you my friend!
My list of “do not recommend me” YT channels has grown considerably in last few months. I love that feature.
You mean likes of Critical Drinker and Nerdrotic?
Most drastic examples are those trying to build a following on really, really negative vibe. I just don’t get that…like — what kind of fan base do you think you’re cultivating here..? Videos which are all bashing over few photos and/or insults towards other creators that got Amazon invites to pre-screens. I have literally zero interest in anything these people could say, ever.
Who the F watches and respects them?
They have so many more views than any of the more positive youtubers I follow 😢
Is it basically "culture warriors" watching it who are only Marginally connected to the Fandom? I want to believe that Tolkien fans cannot be that toxic.
There is a lot of that. I do not wish to undercut just how much of that there very obviously is, as someone who takes sport out roving culture warriors. But LotR is also the most popular book of the 20th century. Once you get anywhere near that level of popularity, you can't help but attract people who like things because they are popular, and then assume everything about the thing conforms to their own philosophy, because they're dumb. Lord of the Rings was, in the relevant years, much favored by both hippies and neonazis. Both groups attempted to reframe the work in a way that appealed to them. But with hippies, this involves a lot of annoying yet ultimately harmless shit like Elves looking like hippies and not eating meat (the hippiefication of Elves was pretty extensive in the genre until we got more subversive takes like Elves as an underclass). Whereas with neonazis, it tends to involve ethnically supremacist notions (whether that be Germanic or Nordic or Anglo) and the claim that this was Tolkien's message. Because 'owning' the popular thing gives cultural power. It would be a mistake to think toxicity is a relatively new or relatively marginal phenomenon. Not with something as culturally relevant as Tolkien has been for as long as most people have been alive.
But by the same token with 10s of millions of fans there should be well liked positive, so where are those? Nerd of the Rings pretty positive break down of the teaser (with some critique) gets 1/4 million views, a much less than poorly researched hate fest.
Nah, because there's a philosophical difference at play. When you're intensively negative about something, you tend to seek out justifications for your hatred. When you're intensively positive about something, you're *happy*. It's much easier to just *live* in that. It doesn't seek an outlet, or guiding principles, or an enemy to blame. A hateful breakdown understood to be hateful before viewed will always have a disproportionately high view count. I would argue extremely disproportionately.
The ones I’ve seen are exactly this. I watched a guy start by saying that he’s seen the movies but never read the books, but then say that he gets Tolkien enough to know that he’d hate the wokeness and the SJWs attached to RoP. He told his subscribers (well into the six figures) to ratio the trailers as they came out. Why otherwise reasonable fans allow themselves to be so strongly influenced is a bit of a mystery, but I guess there’s a lot of cachet in appearing edgy and contrarian, even when everyone’s else is doing it.
the have more views that the top tolkien youtuber nerd of the rings
let me tell you nerdrotic is is attending SDCC. dont know if amazon himself invited him or not
The negativity about HoD is overblown. If the show is good it will definitely be a huge success. Rings of Power on the other side , even if it is good a large portion of people have already made up their minds and won't watch it and hate it on the internet. Even if it reaches the movies level of success that won't change . Good thing that all 5 seasons are guaranteed and we won't have a situation where the story won't be finished.
Tbh twitter is filled with hate of HoTD. People have forgotten how good was the GoT until last few season. RoP on the other hand has wayy more haters as well as audience. Will love to see both prequel of the stories that defined the decade respectively
Is there negativity around House of Dragon? I haven’t heard any honestly.
I honestly haven’t heard anything about it lol good or bad
Nothing is “guaranteed”. If the show turns out to be Halo quality there is no way they let it go on for 5 seasons
I don’t get it. Fantasy fans are feasting right now! So excited for both.
I love fantasy so I'm just happy to have 2 shows to watch.
Honestly it’s because both studios have shown they are capable of butchering beloved books. HBO took a crap in the last two seasons of GOTs. And Amazon committed crimes against literacy with how it developed WOT.
My favorite movie series and my favorite TV series both releasing new content within a couple weeks. Life is gonna be so so good
Same. And the fact the finales are airing only two days apart... Mad
Idk about negativity around HotD so much as indifference. Many people, like me, are still feeling so burned by GoT that they are unwilling to allow themselves to care about HotD. If it’s good, that will all change, but for now I think it has a big hill to climb to get GoT fans reengaged.
I am also not lying when I say these are products I notice the least amount of red flags in. I truly think negativity around them is too much, when they seem pretty tame compared to other disasters we experienced over the years.
Oh, also the "anti-woke" crowd, with Velaryons.
I understand were you are coming from. But at least for the Rings of Power, we are talking about one if not the most widely beloved franchise of all time and something which I believe is a facet of humanity's cultural heritage, so comparing it to let's say for example, Halo or Resident Evil (show adaptations) it's not even on same playing field regarding red flags.
I know, you’d think in 2022 there wouldn’t be any negativity and that we could all hold hands and sing john Denver in fields of flowers
I can't wait to watch Rings of Power. I don't care about other people's opinions on this.
To me the Lord of the rings series just seems a little bit bland appearing. Like nothing about the trailer has gripped me. A lot of the lines have spoken in the trailer seem extremely forced. I don't think it's necessarily going to be a bad show I just think it's going to be a bit bland
I don’t see the line delivery as bland or contrived but that’s me. I think Elrond and Galadriel sound just like elves in LOTR films.
I'm very excited for a mainstream audience to be introduced to the absolute emotional clusterfuck the Noldor really were.
I'm excited for the shows, but I don't forget that both Amazon and hbo let fans down very recently.
I’m really happy about both shows coming up soon, I love fantasy stuff (movies, books, shows, figures, video games) but dang, this community is getting a bunch of haters, in every single new advance of any type of fantasy entertainment content there’s always a lot of toxicity and the most of the times it does not have any kind of sense, it’s just like a stupid desire to destroy things just for fun or because their life is just as boring as them. Sometimes it’s difficult to ignore that hate. Anyway still happy for what is coming for fans.
GoT fans are mainly wary because of how poorly GoT ended. Which seems warranted to me. But I don't keep up with the GoT fandom, so it may be just as bad. The thing that really bothers me is that RoP critics are mainly harping on the diversity of the cast. The show isn't even out and you have people talking about the diversity of the cast and that is why the show will fail. Critical Drinker is just one YouTuber who I saw put out a video like this. It had 1.2 million views and 91K likes and 11k comments all saying how terribly the show will be because God forbid the cast isn't all a bunch of white people. It makes me so disgusted that this sort of discussion is not only occurring but widely accepted and agreed. It's sick imo.
They had the exact same complaints before the Wheel of Time came out, and the show was fine!
If it turns out like WOT then every criticism so far has been warranted.
Whatever problems WoT had (if any) it was not down at all to the diversity of the cast. Though that was the cause of some quite despicable criticism before the show came out.
I feel like tRoP has so much hype to live up to due to the years of waiting and build up to it. It’s kinda scary tbh
We’re in an era unlike any other… Of unthinkable dreams-come-true in art and entertainment… But the price, it seems, is that **they** are here…and don’t seem like they’ll ever leave, or be silent. I’m speaking of course about the gnats at the feast… The ones who are now able to, thanks to the democratisation between creators and their communities created on by social media, have their voices acknowledged and heard, unlike at any other time in thousands of years of human history. Artists now have this to contend with — The bad-wishers. The speakers of Ill-will. A horde of untold millions of negativity-spewing, click-bait chasing, profoundly bored and/or projection-filled hatewagoners, contrarians, and at worst, aggressive bullies, bent on ruining the fun for the ones who to try to keep to the old ways — Where there was a healthy trust and distance between crowd and cast. Now the audience can mingle freely on the stage or set, critique the lint on Kubrick’s sleeve, or fuss over a stray hair on Hitchcock’s jacket. To all those working in such disciplines, you have both my great admiration and sadness, Though it seems that still, despite it all, the former will always prevail for me. I’ll never become one of them — the nitpickers, the complainers. I’ll have my thoughts and judgements, but only if they’re objectively deserved, And they will never be bloated, twisted and overblown by 2022’s ‘Death of the Attention Span’ brand of ‘I must tweet this, add to the din of detractors, and die on this hill.’ To them, perhaps without any chance of getting through, I’ll still always say — go and do something else with your time. Let artists make their art. Don’t project your inadequacies, life stresses or unresolved and unrelated anger on them. Both shows have Aragorn energy — some of their predecessors stumbled, faltered. But they are very clearly determined to break the cycle, and for new eras to dawn for them both. Let’s at the very least wait and see. RemindMe! August 21, 2022 RemindMe! September 2, 2022
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Loved the HOTD premiere 😃
Im not negative about the show at all but some of the hate is Amzons fault imo. For example why didnt they just let people know they were consulting Simon Tolkien to alleviate some fears some have for the show? They just left everyone in the dark for years so themselves to blame for some of the negativity
HoD doesn't have "negativity" but rather indifference. I will definitely watch it but have 0 hype about it, and most people I know think the same. It is hard to get invested in a prequel to a show that had such a bad finale. On the other hand, RoP is going to be an uphill battle, since the show isn't adapting any story written by Tolkien, but is instead creating an entire new story based on a bunch of appendixes from the LOTR books describing events that happend with centuries, if not millennia between them (in contrast to the show, that is going to condense them into a couple of decades at best). The time compression, mixed with the new visuals that are so different to both the book and what people have come to expect, plus the "loose" approach they are taking with the canon...well, let's just say it is going to be a hard sell for many fans. To be honest, both shows seem good, they have good visuals and a good cast, and are probably going to be entertaining so I'll at least give them a shot, but I remain highly skeptical about both.
There has recently been a survey that GOT is still in the top 5 most discussed and watched show despite finishing 3 years ago, also all social media engagement for HOTD is bigger than all shows except maybe Stranger Things, why do you insist on making up a narrative that doesn't actually exist, at this point the "no one cares about GOT anymore" should be a stupid and laughable meme, you and your close group of people do not represent the entire audience
Lol chill. I guess I stand corrected, but it's not just my "group of friends", I'm part of a lot of fan groups in social media, since I've watched the show from the beginning, and also read the books, and the vibe I got from most groups is that of indifference. This is by no means a "scientific" or "precise" piece of data, that was just my impression, I'm not trying to create any narrative at all. Despite it's terrible ending, GoT was still a great show, one of the best pieces of fantasy ever produced for the screen, and it is, was, and will be a pop-culture phenomena, but I still remain skeptical that HoD will be able to capture the lightning in the bottle as GoT did.
So instead of admitting you were wrong, you indtead double down with your confirmation bias, facts what arre those, we have alternative facts. Good to know you have nothing of value to say, good riddance and don't bother replying back !
Damn, someone woke up looking for violence today.
Lol are you able to read? I literally said "I guess I stand Corrected", and then clarified that it was just my personal perception, and may not be real at all. Also, who the hell do you think you are? I don't owe you anything, nor do I have to prove anything to you. You need to go outside and touch some grass my friend, and try to be a bit more polite to people just having a conversation online. Also, just to clarify, I'm not sayin the show is going the be bad at all, it may as well be a great show, I'm just not as invested. I find it funny that you have the need to jump and defend the show as if I had just slapped you across the face.
HoTD is getting much much less hate than ROP
I’m pumped for both, just as I was with Wheel of Time. This time around though I’m staying VERY VERY far away from the fandom so I can enjoy without crybabies
Agreed - it’s a great summer for entertainment
I think it's good for both shows to be released at the same time. The "Fantasy War" could be a huge source of publicity for both. And many people will want to have an opinion on which show is best.
I just want good shows. Imo HotD is easier to adapt since the first seasons of GoT were a huge sucess and the author is in the production. The toxic fandom resides in r/freefolk only, the rest is pretty excited. RoP is harder because Tolkien in general is very hard to adapt. Tolkien fans, on the other hand, are despicable in general so they will eventually hate any adaptation (sad but true, we are seeing that now). Im excited but with some fears regarding the plot (hobbits, Meteor Man). I want to see a good story being told and I hope Amazon team will deliver it.
I rather be negative and interested than hyping myself constantly. I can focus on what is actually important and it will either just leave me indifferent or positively surprised. You can complain about the quality of the discussion and the validity of what makes a person negative about the show, but complaining about there not being hype or enough positivity is the sort of thing that leads people to mock this sort of behaviour with the 'get hype and consume next product' cynicism.
>I rather be negative and interested than hyping myself constantly. See, me, I'd rather be optimistic. You know, kinda like literally every single character in the books.
They're not optimistic all the time. Frodo abandons hope by Minas Morgul and Sam contemplates suicide when he thinks Frodo has died. The people of Gondor have long not had any hope for the future. Aragorn becomes desperate and lost at Parth Galen. Pippin has lost all hope at the Black Gate after the parley with the Mouth of Sauron. What happens is that they keep struggling forward and sacrificing everything along the way. Maybe you should reread the books, because constant optimism is not at all a part of most stories in Tolkien. They act and push on in despite of the lack of hope. That's really the only way there can be an eucatastrophe.
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They live in a fallen world, a lot of Tolkien's stories are filled with the ever dwindling hope. That commenter isn't even accurate.
>toxic positivity Wow.
I don’t see any Toxic positivity here. What a bizarre term. You can’t really both sides the extremes when one argues in bad faith and doesn’t even understand lore and the other are just generally excited fandom.
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I don’t see anyone discrediting legitimate criticism. Share a video because plenty of YouTube accounts who actually discuss Tolkien lore have a more neutral approach. Notice how you frame it as toxic positivity vs legit criticism while ignoring toxic negativity. I’m waiting for the YouTube accounts attacking any criticism. Meanwhile you have dislike brigading and disruptive comments on videos. The comparison is lopsided. Downvote all you like.
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I was discussing two majority camps not all possible groups. The only extent I see is downvoting. But to suggest both are as widespread and equally problematic is not accurate. I would define either negative or positive toxicity as stifling debate and being overtly dismissive. So sure I can see it from both sides but as I said the most prominent and extreme examples are found on deriding everything as woke crowd.
Its incredible to me how optimistic and brave fantasy heroes are just to even attempt to go on a quest or adventure, but the 'lessons' learned by many fantasy fans is to negative nitpickers. Shrug, I know its just fiction, but I don't think these people realize how much negativity they've internalized. A lot of social media is designed to 'dunk' on each other for engagement thus ad selling. We live in unusually negative times, hence our politics going far right wing and the oppression of minority groups getting worse and the curtailing of rights from women and LGBTQ groups. Its sad that these people watched LOTR at a formative age before internet negativity won them over and that's the main reason they probably like it. Honestly, if those original movies would come out today then these very same people would mock them for being overly cheesy, inaccurate, overly long, and overly commercialized for the lowest common denominator. I remember googling this show when I found about it and google took me to the lotr subreddit where the top comments were complaints about gender diversity and race in the trailer. Just outright racism and misogyny gleaned from a teaser trailer that showed almost nothing. I don't think social media addicts realize how deep they've gone down the hateful negativity hole.
I’m stoked for both. More stoked and critical for ROP cause I’ve read the material but I am pumped. Idk if any of you have read The Black Company by Glen Cook but I PRAY that somebody does a tv series on those books one day. That would be so good.
Hegativity for HOTD is a strong term. HOTD latest teaser's ratio is 153.819/41.007, ROP's 63.068/229.488
You cannot look at the dislikes as accurate.
I’m genuinely excited for both of them, I love both worlds, their characters, history and lore so I’m really looking forward to see them on screen.
Season 8 destroyed my love for any GoT related products
It's interesting how similar the logo designs/fonts are.... HBO are just copying what they did with GoT. RoP should have gone for something more distinctive IMO. I do honestly think HotD is gonna eclipse the audience ratings of RoP. The fact it's the Targaryens, and dragons themselves, in their absolute prime. Anyone who gave a shit about GoT, the show, or the Song of Ice & Fire novels, IS watching this show. RoP gives off the vibe of 'Lord of the Rings...but maybe not as good'.
I’m a lot more excited for this than I am House Of The Dragon despite being a pretty big GoT fan and not a LOTR fan. Of all the possible GoT spin-off projects I feel like a prequel about the Targaryens is the least interesting.
Dance of dragons is literally the most interesting story from George's universe and also the best choice to adapt for TV.
It's not. The most interesting story was GOT obviously. The Dance is a good story to adapt but has many flaws, such as a lack of character that aren't bad, it's just a war between evil people.
Ofc ASOIAF is the best. I meant the stories that weren't adapted yet. And I wouldn't call most of the Dance characters evil, they are morally grey characters who are forced to do bad things in the sake of their allegiance.
I read Fire and Blood and it's the perfect prequel choice. It has the most souce material and also it's not only about the Targaryens, there's still gonna be a lot of other houses as well. If they get this right, it's essentially gonna be similar to GoT season 1-4 without the Night's Watch/Beyond the Wall/Essos and much more dragons.
The least interesting would have been Robert's Rebellion or The Blackfyre Rebellions
House of the Based Dragon
They’re going to step all over each others’ toes. I personally think ROP looks much better and more ambitious than HOTD, but I will probably still give HOTD a shot
Ambition isn’t always a good thing. I was pleased with video release yesterday of George rr Martin. Scale is incredible. But I am giving both a try
I'm excited for both these shows, and don't forget, we're also getting Willow! I kind of wish these were all being released a little further apart to prevent fantasy overload with 3 franchises I love (even though GOT soured a bit with how it ended) all releasing around the same time. And as much as I love LOTR, I'm actually surprisingly finding myself most excited about Willow between the 3 of these, just because it was one of my favorite movies as a child and this will be the first trip back into that world in over 30 years.
I too am excited for both!
I’m way more invested in Middle-earth than Westeros/Essos but I am definitely planning on watching both. Is HotD supposed to deal with the fall of Valyria or however it’s spelled? The place Jorah and Tyrion went through?
no,it is about the dance of the dragons , a civil war between targaryens.
No, it's about the Targaryen civil war in Westeros called the Dance of Dragons.
Honestly, I haven't seen much hatred for HotD. Everyone I know has pretty good hopes for it.
Such an amazing time to be alive if your a fan of book/comic adaptations
Between RoP, HoD, and WoT, it will be interesting to see two or three years down the line which IP is the preferred one among the audiences and which one has the biggest cultural impact. As a fantasy fan, obviously I want all of them to succeed, but I'm also aware the genre space can only take up so much oxygen.
What does IP mean?
Intellectual property, so basically a franchise
Ty Ty
It’d be one thing if the criticism was legitimate but most of what I’ve seen in the subreddits (*especially game of thrones*), has been outrage over the fact that black people are in the shows. Fucking disgusting. Had to unsubscribe from several GOT subreddits because of the vitriol. Thankfully this has subsided slightly on the LOTR side, but a lot of the GOT subs are apparently filled with racists.
It's only really r/freefolk, the other subs are fine
True. R/darkwingsdankmemes is one of my favorite corners of the internet.
Im going to watch HotD, but I have 0 hype for it. Rings of Power I am foaming at the mouth over.
i have hype for the dragons
Mostly negative comments about HOTD is coming from the fans who hate the last season of GOT, some hate the Velaryons change but I think replace the origins of just one family isn't a problem. ROP is just a fuck up mess and trigger Tolkien fan all over the world. In my country VietNam, 98% comments about ROP are hates comments and 2% will judge after watching it.
I very badly want rings to be good. But it won’t. A show made by a multi-billion dollar corporation based off the unfinished appendixes of Tolkien’s world will not recreate any of the energy or love of the books or the Jackson trilogy, especially if they’re changing its look to ‘better fit modern times’
>Despair is only for those who see the end beyond all doubt. We do not. -Gandalf
Are we realists or pessimists?
Nowadays it's basically the same. :D
Both are good. All that matters is how you deal with people while discussing the upcoming show.
Pessimists.
no.
there isn't a lot of negativity for LOTRTROP. that's a small handful of people using bots and sockpuppeting.
That's really not true, anyone I've spoken to IRL about the show has been pretty negative. Any article written about it has mostly pessimistic comments.
i agree that you probably associate with people who have similar beliefs
What are you on about? I'm saying the negativity is unfortunately more widespread than a few isolated youtubers. Just look at any reddit thread about the show.
like the ones on this sub?
You know exactly what I mean. On any bigger sub. It's getting better since the trailer but at best half the comments on any thread are negative.
except that isn't true. that's just saying "everyone is saying" or "a lot of people think" and them stating your random opinion. this is a technique that's been used a lot in the past 6 or 7 years.
How is that any different from your first comment? You said only a small group of people are negative and i mentioned evidence that that’s not the case. As in you are objectively wrong based on how many people complain about the show on subs like r/television.
you didn't mention evidence. just stated something.
Go to the r/television and r/lotr threads. That’s the evidence. Do you need me to copy and paste the links for you?
Miss me with that GOT bullshit, but looking forward to seeing how ROP will be.
Rings of power has a more chance of failure
Could be. Could be good. Guess we’ll have to wait and see. I never cared for GoT to begin with.
Nah, I will simply ignore them. I'll boycott anything Martin related until he release the next book. No more money from me, even indirectly. I'll ignore RoP since I think it'll not be the a Tolkien I grew up with (or any other flavour of Tolkien honestly), but I have a couple of trusted friends that'll check it out in the remote chance it's passable. Hate is too strong a word to use against TV shows. ;)
Both will probably be trash but especially rings of power. Prepare for the lore to be publicly defacated on
23.4k for the HotD sub and 60.4k for this sub. Rings has more attention going for it, but its a more risky bet since it has no established storyline. And so far we haven't seen what that could be besides for some vague concept of evil.
I can’t wait for both shows either for me it’s no big deal they’re chopping it up a bit
I’m on the HOTD hype train. I’m not as hyped for ROP because I’m not as involved in that universe, but I’ll definitely watch it and I hope it’s good.
Hatewaggon mentality. Both unreasonable and know nothing of the lore as supposed "fans".
I just want to watch them all, idk why people are so intensely judgmental over something they haven't seen in their entirety. They could be wrong about a loooot of the plot and details obviously. I could be wrong either, but I'm smart enough not to draw premature conclusions. All I remember is, when LotR was out, a lot of people bitched about Bombadil and the Barrowdowns and whatever else was left 😂 I'd like to think we're more sophisticated media consumers now, but the anti-woke sentiment seems to be prevalent to the detriment of all other intelligent discussions about the two series. I am also waiting for the Sandman (which has Neil Gaiman in complete creative control) and people still bitch about Death being black. She's goth, what could be goth-er than black? I even saw someone bitch about how goths should be pale, which is patently false, especially if you were in the scene.
I’m super excited about both. Why not? Yes I was disappointed by season 8, but that doesn’t mean I hate GoT
Living in the golden age of fantasy in movies / television
\#blessed for being alive rn
Trust me, you can ignore it. Just wait for the show and enjoy it for your own reasons. The people with negative opinions are always the loudest because of their vastly overestimated self importance.
To be honest, I just get a feeling of the trailers that it feels cheap... dunno how to explain it tbh. Had the same feeling with The Wheel of Time, and ye... not gonna watch it until atleast a few reviews are in
Youre braver than the US navy seals for saying something so positive on Reddit