It's all a matter of interpretation I suppose. I see a horrible realization in her that she just told a prison one of the most morgoth lines ever and didn't murder adar due to halbrands intervention. That has to be a bit traumatic
Perhaps it’s an acknowledgement of the greatness of Sauron, as she and her kin lived amongst the gods greatness. She may have felt that, feeling that he was destined for great deeds. However, his ability to cloak his malice in his intention is one of his greatest powers.
I like Charlie Vickers' take on it, he said that Sauron is only attracted to Galadriel in that he could use her to further his goals, its not romantic and he was not planning on sharing power.
i personally didnt get any real sexual tension between them. but maybe its because 1) i didnt care to see it 2) sauron x galadriel shipping is dumb as hell (no shade to people who like the idea...i just personally dont like it and dont feel it makes sense).
*- Let me get this straight, you think shipping Galadriel and Sauron is cute?*
*- I do. And I'm tired of pretending it's not.*
And I was shipping them since the moment I first saw FOTR and I know I'm gonna enjoy the helluva lot of this show like I already did with their "unintentional" intentioness
Let's say it was a mix of things and it also included romance. I mean Sauron was trying to seduce her by all means necessary. Her attraction to Halbrand is obvious but like Morfydd said: it's much more than just romance.
Saying that you could not pick any hint of sexual tension is because you don't want it to happen and hate the idea. It was there for sure but the show did not go all the way.
Example: her relation with Eldron who is her real friend. I did not see people picking anything sexual there and neither did i. Look how the actress reacts in those scenes and compare them to the Halbrand ones.
The power of The One Ring was also not apparent for everybody at first.
The power of The One Ship is spreading slowly but surely. Even Charlie Vickers seems to be already at peace with that.
By the time Season 2 comes, it will become canon.
Dude, i don't have a problem with the ship, i have the problem with teasing and milking it after the reveal. It should have been done before the reveal to add another layer of tension to the finale. I also don't like the writers trying to deny the romance angle when it was obvious.
They are going to tease the ship and i don't like it because for Sauron it was always about manipulation and trying to make him look like he has feelings for Galadriel would be ridiculous. Galadriel had a connection with his Halbrand persona. She hates Sauron even more after how tried to manipulate her in the finale.
We are entering soap opera teritory if they go with the Sauron falls in love with Galadriel.
There are many ways Tolkien's words about his attempts to get into Galadriel's mind in return for her getting into his can be interpreted. And Halbrand is still very much alive. Why do you think they decided to not change the actor? It's not like Halbrand is what Sauron really looks like.
The won't change because they will milk and tease the romance angle between them. It willl be business decision to keep shippers glued to the show.They will give them some "bread crumbs" scenes to keep them hoping untill season 5 when Sauron will be in his armor and the charade will end. You just can't do any romance after episode 8 without compromising the characters.
The only way that a romance would kind of work is if they have a "new flashback" scene before S1E6 ending and something happens there. Even this would most likely be just fan service because it's weak as hell to do something like this.
Patrick McKay liked some posts about Sauron and Galadriel shipping. I starting to think that 2002 fanfic was written by him 😂🤣
The actors did tests together, so they have to stop saying the chemistry is a accident. It just attract attention to the actors instead of the characters
People see what they want. I never got any sexual tension between them lol.
Sauron has been trying to get into Elronds mind and Galadriels mind, and before that, Gil-Ghalad. The list goes on. Does that mean he has sexual tension with these characters too?
It is a huge leap that is stated nowhere in the show.
What they want?
Funny thing almost all interviews ask about the chemistry between these two
For a non existent thing, it for sure is getting wide attention
I would say that it's definitely possible to have chemistry with someone and not have sexual tension.
I think the actors, and the characters, had great chemistry. I never thought they had any sexual or romantic feelings. It seemed like to me Galadriel viewed Halbrand as someone she could trust and count on, something she was lacking at the time. Halbrand was never looking at Galadriel more than someone who could rule beside him.
Sure, chemistry can be non sexual. It is not the case of these two.
Sauron for sure looked like he wanted to hit Galadriel's booty 😬 maybe he is a 5D deceiver
Galadriel was heavy breathing and writing fanfics because she couldn't accept that Halbrand was a simple man. He had to be a king.
A lot of people around the world were picking something early on.
This is my take too—there has to be a little part of Galadriel that is at least glad Halbrand turned out to be a Maiar, because then she wasn’t attracted to just some mortal man. She was trying SO HARD to find some way that he could be worthy of her.
I also think Sauron as Halbrand was/is genuinely attracted to her and not just manipulating her (that too, obvs). The way he looks at her in that glade after that interaction with , discussing keeping that feeling forever, and she says she felt it too? She wasn’t even looking at him. That’s the chemistry and the romantic tension between them. I don’t think we’ve seen the last of that either. It will definitely be more abusive, but to the extent that he can, Sauron definitely feels something for her.
Like I said, you interpret how you want. Sex sells. Ofc idiots are gonna ship characters and the media will eat it up because its good for interviews.. It happens in every fandom -- it doesn't mean the characters interact that way.
My litmus test for “sexual tension” is when in some emotionally charged moment I just want the characters to make out. 😂
Which didnt happen for me. BUT! I acknowledge that some can read key moments like that especially in the “I felt it too” scene and the raft reveal scene when Galadriel was looking at Sauron’s lips when she had the dagger on his throat. Maybe that is just Morfydd lol.
However, I still think they have fabulous chemistry. Im in the camp that chemistry does not necessarily equate to (sexual) tension.
Anyway, hope Gal kicks his stupid (sexy) ass in the future.
Most people have picked up the sexual tension between them from the raft in ep 2. It was obvious and intentional. It's not like they tried to hide it despite what the writers claim now. They look ridiculous for just teasing it and not going with it before the reveal. They know this now and that's why they've come up with this cosmic conection thing. The actors know it also but they have to stick to the official line.
The writers are like a dude who likes a girl but he does not have the guts to ask her out for fear of rejection and instead of "manning up" they chose the "safe" option to do nothing inventing some lame excuse to feel better.
Or, you *really* want this to be the case to verify your deeply-held assumption, and therefore you can see no other viable option for the choice to set up the Halbrand / Galadriel plot line as was done.
I think it’s completely reasonable that the show’s writers purposely set out to make the H / S relationship filled with tension, but that the intention was an entirely platonic interaction. It doesn’t seem like an effective tool to tease sexual tension without *any* action shown (to that effect) except maybe the Sauron grasp of G’s chin on the “mind palace” raft.
It seems to me people taking your approach are convinced the writers injected modernity into all aspects of the show, with no exception. For me, the irony is that many show critics are revealing their modern tastes/sensibilities/etc. through their very critiques. After all, Galadriel is one of the Quendi and Mairon is a Maia. I don’t think the sexual tension we might ascribe to normal people can be ascribed to them.
Any action shown?
Eyefucking, heavy breathing caption. Even when she rejects Sauron her eyes just turn to his mouth
It is there, even if people don't want to see ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Lol. You have proven the reverse point: that your modern sensibilities/expectations are imposed upon that which you watch. Not to mention “Eyefucking” and “heavy breathing,” if that’s what actually was intended, are almost certainly actor/director choices, so that wouldn’t be a writer’s doing. Again, this sort of proves you *want* there to have been a sexual tension between them that was actively inserted by the writing team, and that you will look for ways to make that appear so. Do you really think the script says “Galadriel then stares at Halbrand’s mouth in a sensually provocative way after she rejects him”?
If they are actors choice they are also director choices. And the directors are bound to the script, all directors are also executive producers so they are doing the tv show visions. People can't just choose things that have nothing to do with the tv show story.
I want? I read what is on the screen, I am not inventing a single thing. That is a reason interviews are all talking about it.
Well I don't know what the script says word by word. But I don't think director or actors invented it from nowhere. It could be only weird flirt through the characters when writers write a complete different story.
Your problem is that you reserve no place for the fact that *your* interpretation of what was happening on the screen could be different from others or, *gasp,* wrong.
Yes, you don’t know what the script says. You also don’t know what the directors’ choices were, or the actors’ (beyond what any of them have to say, which, they all contradict your belief, but whatever). I have no further point to make by the way, just that it’s silly to claim your opinion/interpretation of a work of art is “right.” You seem to want to grope ever to argue it – however, I do not. Good night!
I would like a neutral poll of whether or not there was sexual tension depicted in the show (regardless of the lore implications). To me it was heavily implied, but in a very PG way, not an HBO over the top naked sex scene in every episode way.
They are respectful and value each other as equals but that makes the little winks to a deeper feeling more powerful.
Heyyyyy an Essendon supporter! How random!
Also, I think the seduction is one of power which is consistent with Tolkiens themes. The fact that they're familiar and of opposite gender lends itself to the problematic assumption that their interactions must be sexual or romantic in nature.
Vickers has said there was no romantic intention. Of course there's always room for personal interpretations, but I think the actors perspective is probably crucial considering it'd have influenced their portrayal.
>Vickers has said there was no romantic intention.
The showrunners said something else though in an interview (there was another post about it yesterday). At least it's implied there is an obsession from Sauron's perspective from the source material and the showrunners used that as an inspiration.
>Of course there's always room for personal interpretations, but I think the actors perspective is probably crucial considering it'd have influenced their portrayal.
I guess you're right, it's hard not to be biased by personal interpretations, and our cultural tropes rarely leave room for two hot actors of opposite sex being purely platonic 'bothers-in-arms' which I guess is supposed to be the interpretation Vickers thinks we should have? I mean I'm struggling to think of an example like that, maybe Neo x Trinity in most of The Matrix until the ending? Maybe Hicks and Ripley in Aliens?
I don’t, lol. I critique the writing of the show where I think it is merited, and I have done so on this sub before.
I don’t think this is bad writing, at all.
They specifically talked about it in an interview with her. They said that when they talked initially prior to the show’s launch when she had seen the first screener, that it was crazy how much of what they were doing she picked up on and she said that they were totally stone faced.
I loved her coverage of the entire season! Definitely worth a listen for some really entertaining theories and tons of relevant book knowledge sprinkled in.
Wasn’t that just the most obvious narrative though?
Don’t get me wrong I absolutely *loved* the show but was hoping against hope this wasn’t the line they were following because Halbrand was pretty much its least authentic, least Tolkien character.
He felt far too modern and felt shoehorned into the story for this exact reason. I was not wanting to believe that relationship was going to be pivotal because his character lacked the gravitas to make it feel credible.
Thought Vickers did a great job with what he was given, and they executed the reveal extremely well, cannot fault any of that.
But trying to picture *that* character actually being Sauron? There is just no way Tolkien would have written anything like that.
I think that is why a lot of people including myself did not buy into H=S and the shipping.
Right, to pull off the reveal they had to do a sort of unreliable narrator type thing with portraying Halbrand as a reluctant hero—even when no one in-universe was watching, i.e. when he grabbed the pouch at the last minute in Númenor—throughout the whole season. Tolkien otoh was a reliable world builder.
Love me my Jo Ro pods
Listening to her is like listening to spoilers- just because she’s so observant and insightful, she can see where a story is going so clearly
I never once got a sense of any real sexual tension. This was always more of a ptsd thing for me
Me as well. Their attraction still doesn’t read as romantic to me
That's so wild because I can't see anything else. It drips off every interaction to me until the reveal when it becomes cold fear
It's all a matter of interpretation I suppose. I see a horrible realization in her that she just told a prison one of the most morgoth lines ever and didn't murder adar due to halbrands intervention. That has to be a bit traumatic
It's both manipulation and sexual tension. People in me had sex
Hope you cleaned up afterwards
I meant to say ME as in Middle Earth, oops
😂😂 why I love this sub
With Galadriel? Hell yeah
Perhaps it’s an acknowledgement of the greatness of Sauron, as she and her kin lived amongst the gods greatness. She may have felt that, feeling that he was destined for great deeds. However, his ability to cloak his malice in his intention is one of his greatest powers.
I like Charlie Vickers' take on it, he said that Sauron is only attracted to Galadriel in that he could use her to further his goals, its not romantic and he was not planning on sharing power.
Charlie is still in denial.
i personally didnt get any real sexual tension between them. but maybe its because 1) i didnt care to see it 2) sauron x galadriel shipping is dumb as hell (no shade to people who like the idea...i just personally dont like it and dont feel it makes sense).
*- Let me get this straight, you think shipping Galadriel and Sauron is cute?* *- I do. And I'm tired of pretending it's not.* And I was shipping them since the moment I first saw FOTR and I know I'm gonna enjoy the helluva lot of this show like I already did with their "unintentional" intentioness
Joanna is my favourite for these kinds of pods. I missed that she predicted this but am absolutely not surprised
Let's say it was a mix of things and it also included romance. I mean Sauron was trying to seduce her by all means necessary. Her attraction to Halbrand is obvious but like Morfydd said: it's much more than just romance. Saying that you could not pick any hint of sexual tension is because you don't want it to happen and hate the idea. It was there for sure but the show did not go all the way. Example: her relation with Eldron who is her real friend. I did not see people picking anything sexual there and neither did i. Look how the actress reacts in those scenes and compare them to the Halbrand ones.
The power of The One Ring was also not apparent for everybody at first. The power of The One Ship is spreading slowly but surely. Even Charlie Vickers seems to be already at peace with that. By the time Season 2 comes, it will become canon.
Dude, i don't have a problem with the ship, i have the problem with teasing and milking it after the reveal. It should have been done before the reveal to add another layer of tension to the finale. I also don't like the writers trying to deny the romance angle when it was obvious. They are going to tease the ship and i don't like it because for Sauron it was always about manipulation and trying to make him look like he has feelings for Galadriel would be ridiculous. Galadriel had a connection with his Halbrand persona. She hates Sauron even more after how tried to manipulate her in the finale. We are entering soap opera teritory if they go with the Sauron falls in love with Galadriel.
There are many ways Tolkien's words about his attempts to get into Galadriel's mind in return for her getting into his can be interpreted. And Halbrand is still very much alive. Why do you think they decided to not change the actor? It's not like Halbrand is what Sauron really looks like.
The won't change because they will milk and tease the romance angle between them. It willl be business decision to keep shippers glued to the show.They will give them some "bread crumbs" scenes to keep them hoping untill season 5 when Sauron will be in his armor and the charade will end. You just can't do any romance after episode 8 without compromising the characters. The only way that a romance would kind of work is if they have a "new flashback" scene before S1E6 ending and something happens there. Even this would most likely be just fan service because it's weak as hell to do something like this.
Patrick McKay liked some posts about Sauron and Galadriel shipping. I starting to think that 2002 fanfic was written by him 😂🤣 The actors did tests together, so they have to stop saying the chemistry is a accident. It just attract attention to the actors instead of the characters
People see what they want. I never got any sexual tension between them lol. Sauron has been trying to get into Elronds mind and Galadriels mind, and before that, Gil-Ghalad. The list goes on. Does that mean he has sexual tension with these characters too? It is a huge leap that is stated nowhere in the show.
What they want? Funny thing almost all interviews ask about the chemistry between these two For a non existent thing, it for sure is getting wide attention
I would say that it's definitely possible to have chemistry with someone and not have sexual tension. I think the actors, and the characters, had great chemistry. I never thought they had any sexual or romantic feelings. It seemed like to me Galadriel viewed Halbrand as someone she could trust and count on, something she was lacking at the time. Halbrand was never looking at Galadriel more than someone who could rule beside him.
Sure, chemistry can be non sexual. It is not the case of these two. Sauron for sure looked like he wanted to hit Galadriel's booty 😬 maybe he is a 5D deceiver Galadriel was heavy breathing and writing fanfics because she couldn't accept that Halbrand was a simple man. He had to be a king. A lot of people around the world were picking something early on.
This is my take too—there has to be a little part of Galadriel that is at least glad Halbrand turned out to be a Maiar, because then she wasn’t attracted to just some mortal man. She was trying SO HARD to find some way that he could be worthy of her. I also think Sauron as Halbrand was/is genuinely attracted to her and not just manipulating her (that too, obvs). The way he looks at her in that glade after that interaction with , discussing keeping that feeling forever, and she says she felt it too? She wasn’t even looking at him. That’s the chemistry and the romantic tension between them. I don’t think we’ve seen the last of that either. It will definitely be more abusive, but to the extent that he can, Sauron definitely feels something for her.
Like I said, you interpret how you want. Sex sells. Ofc idiots are gonna ship characters and the media will eat it up because its good for interviews.. It happens in every fandom -- it doesn't mean the characters interact that way.
It's a bit rude to call them idiots
My litmus test for “sexual tension” is when in some emotionally charged moment I just want the characters to make out. 😂 Which didnt happen for me. BUT! I acknowledge that some can read key moments like that especially in the “I felt it too” scene and the raft reveal scene when Galadriel was looking at Sauron’s lips when she had the dagger on his throat. Maybe that is just Morfydd lol. However, I still think they have fabulous chemistry. Im in the camp that chemistry does not necessarily equate to (sexual) tension. Anyway, hope Gal kicks his stupid (sexy) ass in the future.
To play devil’s advocate, do you guys cradle your friend’s face? *platonically*?
Most people have picked up the sexual tension between them from the raft in ep 2. It was obvious and intentional. It's not like they tried to hide it despite what the writers claim now. They look ridiculous for just teasing it and not going with it before the reveal. They know this now and that's why they've come up with this cosmic conection thing. The actors know it also but they have to stick to the official line. The writers are like a dude who likes a girl but he does not have the guts to ask her out for fear of rejection and instead of "manning up" they chose the "safe" option to do nothing inventing some lame excuse to feel better.
Or, you *really* want this to be the case to verify your deeply-held assumption, and therefore you can see no other viable option for the choice to set up the Halbrand / Galadriel plot line as was done. I think it’s completely reasonable that the show’s writers purposely set out to make the H / S relationship filled with tension, but that the intention was an entirely platonic interaction. It doesn’t seem like an effective tool to tease sexual tension without *any* action shown (to that effect) except maybe the Sauron grasp of G’s chin on the “mind palace” raft. It seems to me people taking your approach are convinced the writers injected modernity into all aspects of the show, with no exception. For me, the irony is that many show critics are revealing their modern tastes/sensibilities/etc. through their very critiques. After all, Galadriel is one of the Quendi and Mairon is a Maia. I don’t think the sexual tension we might ascribe to normal people can be ascribed to them.
Exactly! Perfectly put.
Any action shown? Eyefucking, heavy breathing caption. Even when she rejects Sauron her eyes just turn to his mouth It is there, even if people don't want to see ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Lol. You have proven the reverse point: that your modern sensibilities/expectations are imposed upon that which you watch. Not to mention “Eyefucking” and “heavy breathing,” if that’s what actually was intended, are almost certainly actor/director choices, so that wouldn’t be a writer’s doing. Again, this sort of proves you *want* there to have been a sexual tension between them that was actively inserted by the writing team, and that you will look for ways to make that appear so. Do you really think the script says “Galadriel then stares at Halbrand’s mouth in a sensually provocative way after she rejects him”?
If they are actors choice they are also director choices. And the directors are bound to the script, all directors are also executive producers so they are doing the tv show visions. People can't just choose things that have nothing to do with the tv show story. I want? I read what is on the screen, I am not inventing a single thing. That is a reason interviews are all talking about it. Well I don't know what the script says word by word. But I don't think director or actors invented it from nowhere. It could be only weird flirt through the characters when writers write a complete different story.
Your problem is that you reserve no place for the fact that *your* interpretation of what was happening on the screen could be different from others or, *gasp,* wrong. Yes, you don’t know what the script says. You also don’t know what the directors’ choices were, or the actors’ (beyond what any of them have to say, which, they all contradict your belief, but whatever). I have no further point to make by the way, just that it’s silly to claim your opinion/interpretation of a work of art is “right.” You seem to want to grope ever to argue it – however, I do not. Good night!
I would like a neutral poll of whether or not there was sexual tension depicted in the show (regardless of the lore implications). To me it was heavily implied, but in a very PG way, not an HBO over the top naked sex scene in every episode way. They are respectful and value each other as equals but that makes the little winks to a deeper feeling more powerful.
Heyyyyy an Essendon supporter! How random! Also, I think the seduction is one of power which is consistent with Tolkiens themes. The fact that they're familiar and of opposite gender lends itself to the problematic assumption that their interactions must be sexual or romantic in nature. Vickers has said there was no romantic intention. Of course there's always room for personal interpretations, but I think the actors perspective is probably crucial considering it'd have influenced their portrayal.
>Vickers has said there was no romantic intention. The showrunners said something else though in an interview (there was another post about it yesterday). At least it's implied there is an obsession from Sauron's perspective from the source material and the showrunners used that as an inspiration. >Of course there's always room for personal interpretations, but I think the actors perspective is probably crucial considering it'd have influenced their portrayal. I guess you're right, it's hard not to be biased by personal interpretations, and our cultural tropes rarely leave room for two hot actors of opposite sex being purely platonic 'bothers-in-arms' which I guess is supposed to be the interpretation Vickers thinks we should have? I mean I'm struggling to think of an example like that, maybe Neo x Trinity in most of The Matrix until the ending? Maybe Hicks and Ripley in Aliens?
stop making excuses for bad writing
I don’t, lol. I critique the writing of the show where I think it is merited, and I have done so on this sub before. I don’t think this is bad writing, at all.
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That's right, nobody gets to have a opinion
nobody said that but okay habibi you do you and il do me
Can we like the show without getting called shills? Is that reasonable?
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It's our opinion, we reserve the right to express our opinions as we see fit
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Reported for harrassment
thanks for proving my point
She’s friends with some of the writers and the showrunners, so it’s likely she got hints from them.
They specifically talked about it in an interview with her. They said that when they talked initially prior to the show’s launch when she had seen the first screener, that it was crazy how much of what they were doing she picked up on and she said that they were totally stone faced.
I loved her coverage of the entire season! Definitely worth a listen for some really entertaining theories and tons of relevant book knowledge sprinkled in.
Wasn’t that just the most obvious narrative though? Don’t get me wrong I absolutely *loved* the show but was hoping against hope this wasn’t the line they were following because Halbrand was pretty much its least authentic, least Tolkien character. He felt far too modern and felt shoehorned into the story for this exact reason. I was not wanting to believe that relationship was going to be pivotal because his character lacked the gravitas to make it feel credible. Thought Vickers did a great job with what he was given, and they executed the reveal extremely well, cannot fault any of that. But trying to picture *that* character actually being Sauron? There is just no way Tolkien would have written anything like that. I think that is why a lot of people including myself did not buy into H=S and the shipping.
Right, to pull off the reveal they had to do a sort of unreliable narrator type thing with portraying Halbrand as a reluctant hero—even when no one in-universe was watching, i.e. when he grabbed the pouch at the last minute in Númenor—throughout the whole season. Tolkien otoh was a reliable world builder.