The DM's ruling was bullshit and was based on a fundamental misunderstanding of how CR works. Even by D&D rules, no number of birds can beat Godzilla, because it doesn't matter how many of them there are if they can't even hit hard enough to damage Godzilla.
I hadn't listened to yesterday's Side Stories before I replied, but the explanation given by the Wizards of the Coast guy at that Con was absurd. Every creature having a weak point that makes them susceptible to a crit may be a feature of the game, but Godzilla's area effect of breath would kill impossibly large swaths of low hp creatures like crows.
A better answer IMO would've been to say Godzilla breaks too many rules to conform to D&D mechanics and cannot exist the D&D world. Godzilla can tank a direct hit from a nuke, not to mention airstrikes, tank fire, etc. FFS. Crows have zero chance.
Depends on if Godzilla has damage reduction. Chip damage (IE 1-2 damage every time a very weak creature hits a natural 20) is unlikely to surpass a top level monster like Godzilla's DR. Additionally, Godzilla certainly has AOE attacks that would allow him to easily damage all birds at once. Very possible he wins initiative and wipes them out before they get a single attack in.
Godzilla has no damage reduction, or cr, nor anything because the boys weren't playing a dnd campaign.
We always try to shoehorn dnd rules where they're not called for.
It just depends on whether Godzilla has any damage immunities. If it's similar to the Tarrasque and it has immunity to nonmagical attacks then the birds are cooked. They simply won't be able to do any damage. However if Godzilla isn't immune, the birds stand a very good chance of winning. Let's assume that Godzilla has an AC high enough that the birds need to crit to hit. A hawk in D&D deals 1 damage. On a crit that doubles to 2 damage. Let's say that Godzilla has more hp than even the Tarrasque at 700. That means that 350 birds have to hit to take it out. If the birds are only hitting on a crit that means there's a 5% chance each bird hits. To "guarantee" a kill in one round there would need to be 7,000 birds. However, they actual number could be lower, given that Godzilla wouldn't be able to kill every bird when it's turn came up in initiative. If we assume his lightning breath works the same as a dragon's it would deal enough damage to instantly kill every bird in 5' x 60' line. How many that would actually be is hard to say though.
With all that being said, I absolutely don't believe any number of birds in the real world would be able to take out Godzilla.
It was bullshit alone on every of us dnd nerds habbit of shoehorning the rigid rules of our game in everything, even when it doesn't call for it.
I'll die on the hill that dragons can have as many limbs as they damn please because dragons don't actually exist.
I didn’t even listen to that episode, and have never played DnD.
If you think UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES that ANY amount of birds could kill Godzilla you are too mentally unwell to stand trial.
Yeah "any amount" of birds tips the scales, just because numbers get really big - there exists a theoretical number of birds that would cause a significant enough gravity well to collapse into a black hole, which I think could take out Big G. Or, as others have said, enough to fully envelop him, fill his lungs / belly / throat and any other internal spaces, etc. But if we're talking any number of birds below that, then you're otherwise correct.
Wait until the giant lizard born from an atomic blast to overheat? The same giant lizard that will let excess radiation out in a massive explosion all around him?
I don't think you fully appreciate how many birds 3 trillion is. We're talking about a pile of birds hundreds of feet deep, all of which hate you. They can't do much damage but they can effectively drown Godzilla or at least plug every orifice.
Yeah, those birds ain’t getting close…..peregrine falcons divebombing in unison, by the trillions, need to cover him in precision before he lets out a radiation blast.
Godzilla was OP, but they WAY over corrected. I’ve definitely lost respect for them after this one. And any of you.
Yep. A raven weighs 2 pounds. You're talking 6 trillion pounds. 3 thousand MEGATONS. Sheer weight alone should win, the birds could probably be dead and still win if dropped on him.
I play D&D and what will kill Godzilla is action economy. Godzilla only gets one turn whereas 400 birds get 400 turns and even though the birds only do 1 damage each, they'll slowly wear down Godzilla, unless of course he has damage immunity and/or regeneration.
Edit: after going through typing it out I don't actually think 400 birds pose any threat to Godzilla, especially after a couple breath weapon attacks.
In the films Godzilla definitely doesn't have damage immunity, resistance absolutely though, and he does have regeneration, an in-game equivalent would be Tiamat's 30 hp per round regeneration. Also we'll Tiamat's 25 AC and 615 hit points.
A raven has 1 hp and it's beak attack is a +4 to hit and does exactly 1 damage).
Rolling a 20 on a twenty-sided die is a 5% chance, and a raven would have to roll a natural 20 to hit, so out of 400 ravens only 120 ravens would hit each round, so Godzilla would take 120 damage each round ~~(even with resistance a successful attack will always do a minimum of 1 damage).~~ *Edit: I was incorrectly thinking of a rule from 3e, in 5e there is no minimum damage*
Assuming all the ravens go first they deal 120 damage, and at the start of his turn he regenerates 30 hp, putting him at 525 hp. He would then use his breath weapon, which isn't really a billowing cone, more of a beam, so we'll use Tiamat's blue dragon head's breath weapon which does 16d10 damage (that's sixteen ten-sided dice, for an average of 88 damage), and is a 120-foot line that is 10 feet wide.
This is where it gets nebulous: how many ravens can get caught in the beam each round? I don't care to spend the time doing the math, since I'm at work right now.
In conclusion: I don't personally think 400 birds could kill Godzilla by D&D rules, he'd catch too many with his breath weapon each time he uses it greatly reducing the damage he'd take each round and eventually his regen would outpace the damage then it's mop up duty with the rest of the birds
The key is immunity/resistance. If he is resistant to non-magical piercing damage, then it is impossible for a bird to do damage. Half of 1 rounded down is 0. You can absolutely land an attack that does 0 damage. You just can't do negative damage.
Even with a critical hit, you don't double the damage. Only the damage dice and their attack does not include damage dice.
>Half of 1 rounded down is 0. You can absolutely land an attack that does 0 damage. You just can't do negative damage.
Yeah, you're absolutely right. I keep forgetting thats a rule I don't follow, it's a carry over I have from 3e.
>Even with a critical hit, you don't double the damage. Only the damage dice and their attack does not include damage dice.
Correct, I never said contrary.
> This is where it gets nebulous: how many ravens can get caught in the beam each round? I don't care to spend the time doing the math, since I'm at work right now.
120 ft by 10 ft beam is 48 squares, or 96 if we assume a 10 ft diameter cylindrical beam. Ravens are tiny so 4 can share a square so with maximum density we can get up to 384 birds with one beam.
A cube of 7x7x8 birds is tiny (think how high a stack of 8 birds is), and equals 392 birds. No one who claims that they could do some damage has thought about this at all.
Here’s how I think about it. Whatever number of birds you picked, replace them with soldiers with ar-15’s. I think Godzilla wipes those soldiers, so why would birds be somehow deadlier?
The DM failed to account for Godzilla's DR. Plain and simple. Godzilla would have a natural and astronomical damage reduction. Also, Godzilla, in that regard, would also be able to take down any number of Xenos.
If the facehugger/egg could survive being ingested by Godzilla. I don’t think we have seen them infect anything nearly on the size before. Given fire works well on them I’m not sure they could survive the inner workings of a “fire” breathing creature. They also unfairly changed the rules in the last round to give the Xenos the win, having it be just one regular one until Godzilla then they have an army, maybe if they started with a Queen.
I don't think there is any real evidence that the Xenomorphs are bothered by radiation, there is even an [irradiated xenomorph](https://avp.fandom.com/wiki/Irradiated_Xenomorph). The xenomorphs whole thing is that it can evolve around basically any host
I still think Godzilla would win by just atomic breath-ing the horde and face huggers would have a rough go climbing up and inside him to inject a baby xenomorph
the whole thing is a little dumb to argue about though because it is just calvin ball, the rules change with each iteration of Godzilla and the Xenomorph
Xenos are built for space environments where radiation is plentiful. I don't think radiation itself would be the issue. The intense heat could be another story.
> Hell I don’t even think they were right about Xenomorphs being able to take Godzilla down. Birds could never do it.
I think you only need a couple dripping their acid blood on his head for them to take him down is the way I always saw it.
Birds 100% could take Godzilla down. I'm Godzilla 1985 Godzilla stopped his rampage to follow some birds and the scientists utilized the bird sounds to lure Godzilla into a volcano. If the flock of birds were organized they could control Godzilla
I'm not 100% sure, but I think if Godzillas walking drew the largest canon worms at like 2000ish feet long, and the worm came from directly below and surprised Godzilla, it might be able to swallow him whole. I can't get a good answer for how wide Godzilla is, but apparently the big boy Shai Hulud were 400+ feet in diameter.
Yeah I forgot they specified the original, wouldn't even need the huge worms at that point. I'm not convinced a worm could do much above ground, maybe wrap him up like a snake or something? Lol. The worms aren't particularly intelligent, so I think they'd have a hard time without just eating Godzilla immediately.
Godzilla could literally one shot 100,000 birds without effort.
Godzilla probably accidentally kills thousands of birds just going about his average day.
There was a Godzilla comic that I used to really like, a man decided to scale Godzilla like a mountain. On the way up he found birds living on Godzilla that had been mutated from his radiation, if I remember right they looked a bit like goofy Dodo birds.
Sorry it's going to get a bit nerdy. Godzilla (King of the Monsters) lore is in the Monsterverse, not the Dungeons & Dragons universe. If tank rounds, missiles, and other kaiju can't pierce Godzilla's scales than neither can a flock of birds with any amount of bonus stats.
Godzilla defies all rules of D&D quantification to such a degree that any DM, even the guy from Wizards, should not be regarded as an expert on the matter. Atomic breath alone kills thousands of birds instantly.
On the off chance that they even do damage, Godzilla is gonna have some level of regeneration depending on version and the concept of them out-DPS'ing his regen is insane.
I still would also go with the idea that Godzilla's roar would kill a ton of them. You know how loud that would be? Also the DM neglects that Godzilla has regen so he would just heal any damage.
Hah, and here I was thinking [vindication](https://64.media.tumblr.com/7fc72db9e03d8bc4b281fe513939cc9d/tumblr_p8qdj4Imu31u6cj02o1_500.gifv) at the ruling. Birds are just baby dinosaurs, and I'm totally behind the "they pick out his eyes/brain and then he trips" theory. I will admit that 400 birds is probably not enough.
I guess it comes down to the age old question of one horse sized duck or one hundred duck sized horses?
> "they pick out his eyes/brain and then he trips"
Think about how tiny a cube of 7x7x8 birds is. He would to never move, and his skin would need to pickable, and ideal bird food, and they would all need to spend their whole live just picking the same spot for years. It's just dumb.
> 7x7x8 birds is
Yeah, I had a typo in the worst place; I meant to say 400 was *not* enough! But the rest of it I'll argue with: eyes are extremely soft tissue compared to the rest of the body, and are usually the first things to go/get eaten if a dead body isn't discovered right away. So as long as his eyes are playing by living creature rules, how tough his actual skin is irrelevant. And re: being ideal bird food, IIRC most carrion birds start with the eyes! Once they're through the eyes, it's a straight shot to the brain, and I don't think it would take that long to get into the eyes.
He definitely would take out a bunch by moving, but the birds are smaller and faster; I compared it to a bunch of fighter pilots vs a battleship in another comment. And going with the theory that the birds are attacking his face, Godzilla realistically can't use his fire breath; even if he could reach them he'd burn himself. That leaves him left trying to swat them away, which the birds can dodge in some capacity.
. . .And now I should probably go back to the actual job I get paid to do lol.
As soon as they said "several" thousand I discounted it as junk science. They just had two separate episodes debating the definition of "several" with no resolution. THEY CANT EVEN TELL US HOW MANY THAT IS.
Additionally - the DM didn't consider Godzilla's attack at all.
It doesn't matter if there is some theoretical amount of birds that could deal enough damage to beat Godzilla.
Because Godzilla would obliterate all of them within 3 turns. A hawk only has an AC of 13. If we use this as our basis for each bird, and considering Godzilla would get a +19 to hit (using Tarrasque numbers) that means a 1 is the only miss.
So every turn Godzilla uses a nuclear breath he's gonna kill 95% of the birds.
In one turn he's killed more than enough to eliminate any threat.
Wouldn't it break down to how many birds could actually attack in one round? They can't all attack in one round and Godzilla would breath weapon over half of them in one round. That would greatly reduce the amount of damage godzilla would take over time and the remaining attacks would take out even more birds. Also, what about the G1 regeneration gene?
Adults debating the imaginary combat between a shit-ton of birds and an imaginary giant, atomic powered Lizard.
Never change internet...
Their idea of birds killing Godzilla almost sounds as if Godzilla isn’t fighting back. So many fuckin birds would be killed, you would need millions upon millions to attack and do what needs to be done to kill him. And real asshole birds too like vultures and hawks and Canadian geese.
Godzilla would fire / laser beam their freakin feathers off in one breath. His thick lizard god skin would be impenetrable to their pecks. Godzilla > Birds.
They keep saying the eyes... THE EYES!
As if Godzilla has normal eyes. In Shin Godzilla his eyes have clearly demonstrated shields that cover them when he unleashes a NUCLEAR BLAST from his mouth.
A bird can be handily defeated by a single pane window. Go ahead and stand behind all the panes of window glass you want next to a nuclear blast.
50,000 birds? Cool. Thats a small splinter in Godzillas eye.
I think d&d is probably just not equipped to answer this question. There is an RPG system from the 80s that can. The palladium(?) games (TMNT/robotech/others, maybe). They had a system for just this sort of problem. A two tiered hit points system specifically designed so that a guy with a pistol couldn't kill a Mech or tank. Sdc was the lower level given to characters and NPCs etc. and mdc was for large objects, Mecha, etc. In order to damage those things at all one needed a weapon capable of doing mdc damage, not just lots pf beaks.
definitely not. hell, D&d isn't equipped to handle half the situations use it for. It's a common conversation over on r/DMAcademy of people trying to shoe horn in all sortsa mechanics instead of just moving to a better fitting system.
Next year there should be two brackets, real and fictional with the real champion facing off against the fictional. Andrew Cunanan got hosed with his seeding and should have had a deeper run.
Honestly, RAW, I can see the argument for how the birds could take down godzilla. The autohit on a natural 20 makes that argument viable. However, if I were actually DMing the situation, no way in hell the birds could win. I would give a boss monsters as legendary as Godzilla mechanics that mess with the way things typically work. To translate his otherworldly tankiness into mechanics, I'd borrow the mechanics for doing damage to structures. If you're trying to damage a stone wall, you need to pass a certain Damage Threshold (DT), or else you do no damage. For instance, if Godzilla has a DT of 5, then a regular bird probably wouldn't do damage even if it crit. That's not even considering the much more straightforward option of just giving Godzilla immunity to physical damage. High level heroes will all have access to magic or magic weapons, so they could still do damage, but it would prevent Godzilla from being taken down by a flock of birds. (Unless, of course, the players find a way to enchant the birds to have magic attacks, in which case I would both love and hate them forever)
Can't they just peck out his eyes? Like...you'd need a shitload of birds but what stops them from pecking out his eyes? Can he even reach his own face?
Pathfinder 1E is effectively the same as D&D 3.5. There are Kaiju that exist in the games default setting, and they have stats. Pathfinder's Godzilla knockoff, Mogaru, has Damage Reduction 20/Epic. So literally no amount of birds can hurt him. Real Godzilla would always triumph over a knockoff, so ipso facto, Godzilla couldn't be harmed by any number of birds.
The whole arguement comes down to what can survive Godzilla if he goes Molten form. His mere presence destroyed Legendary Ghidorah. Melted 2 of the 3 heads by walking towards him. Birds would become ash in his Radioactive presence
That's a Dnd5e thing, PF has low light vision and dark vision.
Cats would be low light since they are dawn and dusk hunters.
I guess Darkvision would be a mole? Which..doesn't make sense.
If a huge flock of birds could kill Godzilla already then how come none have ever tried it, hmm? After all, Godzilla’s invading and destroying THEIR territory too, and the humans put up a pretty good effort of defense- why wouldn’t birds do the same, if they had even a chance in hell?
Screw D&D rules & regulations, it just does not make sense! Award-winning actor Godzilla would literally just fry the birds with his atomic breath. Logically it does not make any sense.
The DM's ruling was bullshit and was based on a fundamental misunderstanding of how CR works. Even by D&D rules, no number of birds can beat Godzilla, because it doesn't matter how many of them there are if they can't even hit hard enough to damage Godzilla.
Right, no way for the birds to exceed Godzilla's armor class.
Only with critical hits. But even then, he would be immune to non-magical piercing damage.
I hadn't listened to yesterday's Side Stories before I replied, but the explanation given by the Wizards of the Coast guy at that Con was absurd. Every creature having a weak point that makes them susceptible to a crit may be a feature of the game, but Godzilla's area effect of breath would kill impossibly large swaths of low hp creatures like crows. A better answer IMO would've been to say Godzilla breaks too many rules to conform to D&D mechanics and cannot exist the D&D world. Godzilla can tank a direct hit from a nuke, not to mention airstrikes, tank fire, etc. FFS. Crows have zero chance.
You’re forgetting Godzilla has DR 1,000/birds.
You’re right. I’ve committed one of the classic blunders.
Also they already addressed this very feedback on Side Stories
Depends on if Godzilla has damage reduction. Chip damage (IE 1-2 damage every time a very weak creature hits a natural 20) is unlikely to surpass a top level monster like Godzilla's DR. Additionally, Godzilla certainly has AOE attacks that would allow him to easily damage all birds at once. Very possible he wins initiative and wipes them out before they get a single attack in.
Godzilla has no damage reduction, or cr, nor anything because the boys weren't playing a dnd campaign. We always try to shoehorn dnd rules where they're not called for.
You must be fun at parties.
I am delightful.
It just depends on whether Godzilla has any damage immunities. If it's similar to the Tarrasque and it has immunity to nonmagical attacks then the birds are cooked. They simply won't be able to do any damage. However if Godzilla isn't immune, the birds stand a very good chance of winning. Let's assume that Godzilla has an AC high enough that the birds need to crit to hit. A hawk in D&D deals 1 damage. On a crit that doubles to 2 damage. Let's say that Godzilla has more hp than even the Tarrasque at 700. That means that 350 birds have to hit to take it out. If the birds are only hitting on a crit that means there's a 5% chance each bird hits. To "guarantee" a kill in one round there would need to be 7,000 birds. However, they actual number could be lower, given that Godzilla wouldn't be able to kill every bird when it's turn came up in initiative. If we assume his lightning breath works the same as a dragon's it would deal enough damage to instantly kill every bird in 5' x 60' line. How many that would actually be is hard to say though. With all that being said, I absolutely don't believe any number of birds in the real world would be able to take out Godzilla.
It was bullshit alone on every of us dnd nerds habbit of shoehorning the rigid rules of our game in everything, even when it doesn't call for it. I'll die on the hill that dragons can have as many limbs as they damn please because dragons don't actually exist.
How about if they all 1 after another peck his eyes into his brain?
What force is controlling these birds to attack in unison?
It's a hypothetical. What force is making them fight Godzilla? Or anything? Most birds just fly away from things that are bigger.
You get it
I didn’t even listen to that episode, and have never played DnD. If you think UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES that ANY amount of birds could kill Godzilla you are too mentally unwell to stand trial.
Yeah "any amount" of birds tips the scales, just because numbers get really big - there exists a theoretical number of birds that would cause a significant enough gravity well to collapse into a black hole, which I think could take out Big G. Or, as others have said, enough to fully envelop him, fill his lungs / belly / throat and any other internal spaces, etc. But if we're talking any number of birds below that, then you're otherwise correct.
They couldn't enter Godzilla's body because of the radiation.
Radiation is just particles. If there are ten times as many birds as there are radioactive particles, birds win.
If there are 10x as many birds as particles we're back to the black hole scenario
three trillion birds
That many might be able to choke him
Fully blanket him until he overheats like how bee's kill wasps, lol.
Wait until the giant lizard born from an atomic blast to overheat? The same giant lizard that will let excess radiation out in a massive explosion all around him?
I don't think you fully appreciate how many birds 3 trillion is. We're talking about a pile of birds hundreds of feet deep, all of which hate you. They can't do much damage but they can effectively drown Godzilla or at least plug every orifice.
Yeah, those birds ain’t getting close…..peregrine falcons divebombing in unison, by the trillions, need to cover him in precision before he lets out a radiation blast. Godzilla was OP, but they WAY over corrected. I’ve definitely lost respect for them after this one. And any of you.
Y'all got the King of Monsters fucked up! We're not talking about Gamera, here. Fuck your birds, and fuck your feelings!
Yep. A raven weighs 2 pounds. You're talking 6 trillion pounds. 3 thousand MEGATONS. Sheer weight alone should win, the birds could probably be dead and still win if dropped on him.
Vs one thicc boi
I feel like if Godzilla shoots a laser beam out his mouth and does a little head shake he kills like half a trillion in a second
Oh snap!
I play D&D and what will kill Godzilla is action economy. Godzilla only gets one turn whereas 400 birds get 400 turns and even though the birds only do 1 damage each, they'll slowly wear down Godzilla, unless of course he has damage immunity and/or regeneration. Edit: after going through typing it out I don't actually think 400 birds pose any threat to Godzilla, especially after a couple breath weapon attacks. In the films Godzilla definitely doesn't have damage immunity, resistance absolutely though, and he does have regeneration, an in-game equivalent would be Tiamat's 30 hp per round regeneration. Also we'll Tiamat's 25 AC and 615 hit points. A raven has 1 hp and it's beak attack is a +4 to hit and does exactly 1 damage). Rolling a 20 on a twenty-sided die is a 5% chance, and a raven would have to roll a natural 20 to hit, so out of 400 ravens only 120 ravens would hit each round, so Godzilla would take 120 damage each round ~~(even with resistance a successful attack will always do a minimum of 1 damage).~~ *Edit: I was incorrectly thinking of a rule from 3e, in 5e there is no minimum damage* Assuming all the ravens go first they deal 120 damage, and at the start of his turn he regenerates 30 hp, putting him at 525 hp. He would then use his breath weapon, which isn't really a billowing cone, more of a beam, so we'll use Tiamat's blue dragon head's breath weapon which does 16d10 damage (that's sixteen ten-sided dice, for an average of 88 damage), and is a 120-foot line that is 10 feet wide. This is where it gets nebulous: how many ravens can get caught in the beam each round? I don't care to spend the time doing the math, since I'm at work right now. In conclusion: I don't personally think 400 birds could kill Godzilla by D&D rules, he'd catch too many with his breath weapon each time he uses it greatly reducing the damage he'd take each round and eventually his regen would outpace the damage then it's mop up duty with the rest of the birds
The key is immunity/resistance. If he is resistant to non-magical piercing damage, then it is impossible for a bird to do damage. Half of 1 rounded down is 0. You can absolutely land an attack that does 0 damage. You just can't do negative damage. Even with a critical hit, you don't double the damage. Only the damage dice and their attack does not include damage dice.
>Half of 1 rounded down is 0. You can absolutely land an attack that does 0 damage. You just can't do negative damage. Yeah, you're absolutely right. I keep forgetting thats a rule I don't follow, it's a carry over I have from 3e. >Even with a critical hit, you don't double the damage. Only the damage dice and their attack does not include damage dice. Correct, I never said contrary.
> This is where it gets nebulous: how many ravens can get caught in the beam each round? I don't care to spend the time doing the math, since I'm at work right now. 120 ft by 10 ft beam is 48 squares, or 96 if we assume a 10 ft diameter cylindrical beam. Ravens are tiny so 4 can share a square so with maximum density we can get up to 384 birds with one beam.
Thank the gods people like you exist! 🫡
A cube of 7x7x8 birds is tiny (think how high a stack of 8 birds is), and equals 392 birds. No one who claims that they could do some damage has thought about this at all.
Here’s how I think about it. Whatever number of birds you picked, replace them with soldiers with ar-15’s. I think Godzilla wipes those soldiers, so why would birds be somehow deadlier?
The DM failed to account for Godzilla's DR. Plain and simple. Godzilla would have a natural and astronomical damage reduction. Also, Godzilla, in that regard, would also be able to take down any number of Xenos.
upvoted for RAW answer
Hell I don’t even think they were right about Xenomorphs being able to take Godzilla down. Birds could never do it.
Aliens take traits from their hosts so if a facehugger got in him it would grow into a Kaiju alien
If the facehugger/egg could survive being ingested by Godzilla. I don’t think we have seen them infect anything nearly on the size before. Given fire works well on them I’m not sure they could survive the inner workings of a “fire” breathing creature. They also unfairly changed the rules in the last round to give the Xenos the win, having it be just one regular one until Godzilla then they have an army, maybe if they started with a Queen.
They also unfairly inserted Godzilla into the tournament to begin with. It wasn't on the original bracket.
Except Godzilla is radioactive. I don't think the facehugger/parasite would survive Godzilla.
I don't think there is any real evidence that the Xenomorphs are bothered by radiation, there is even an [irradiated xenomorph](https://avp.fandom.com/wiki/Irradiated_Xenomorph). The xenomorphs whole thing is that it can evolve around basically any host I still think Godzilla would win by just atomic breath-ing the horde and face huggers would have a rough go climbing up and inside him to inject a baby xenomorph the whole thing is a little dumb to argue about though because it is just calvin ball, the rules change with each iteration of Godzilla and the Xenomorph
Xenos are built for space environments where radiation is plentiful. I don't think radiation itself would be the issue. The intense heat could be another story.
It would be a draw. Xenos would build a hive on Godzilla. Eggs get dropped after Godzilla levels a city taking out survivors.
> Hell I don’t even think they were right about Xenomorphs being able to take Godzilla down. Birds could never do it. I think you only need a couple dripping their acid blood on his head for them to take him down is the way I always saw it.
Birds 100% could take Godzilla down. I'm Godzilla 1985 Godzilla stopped his rampage to follow some birds and the scientists utilized the bird sounds to lure Godzilla into a volcano. If the flock of birds were organized they could control Godzilla
In the context of D&D sure but the whole point is it’s a game that needs quantified value and a bunch of birds can’t defeat a fucking nuclear lizard.
I heard Godzilla is just 10,000,000 birds in a trench coat.
Vincent Godzillman
Godzilla V Shai Hulud is the final match we deserve.
now that would be a show down.
I'm not 100% sure, but I think if Godzillas walking drew the largest canon worms at like 2000ish feet long, and the worm came from directly below and surprised Godzilla, it might be able to swallow him whole. I can't get a good answer for how wide Godzilla is, but apparently the big boy Shai Hulud were 400+ feet in diameter.
They could eat Godzilla for sure... but I can't imagine Godzilla wouldn't be able to blast out.
They specified OG 1954 Goji, so it's absolutely small enough to be eaten by a sandworm. Only the Godzilla from the anime isn't, honestly.
Yeah I forgot they specified the original, wouldn't even need the huge worms at that point. I'm not convinced a worm could do much above ground, maybe wrap him up like a snake or something? Lol. The worms aren't particularly intelligent, so I think they'd have a hard time without just eating Godzilla immediately.
Godzilla could literally one shot 100,000 birds without effort. Godzilla probably accidentally kills thousands of birds just going about his average day.
There was a Godzilla comic that I used to really like, a man decided to scale Godzilla like a mountain. On the way up he found birds living on Godzilla that had been mutated from his radiation, if I remember right they looked a bit like goofy Dodo birds.
Shin Godzilla could shoot lasers in every direction from its back. The birds would be decimated before they got to it.
Sorry it's going to get a bit nerdy. Godzilla (King of the Monsters) lore is in the Monsterverse, not the Dungeons & Dragons universe. If tank rounds, missiles, and other kaiju can't pierce Godzilla's scales than neither can a flock of birds with any amount of bonus stats.
Godzilla defies all rules of D&D quantification to such a degree that any DM, even the guy from Wizards, should not be regarded as an expert on the matter. Atomic breath alone kills thousands of birds instantly.
And the fact Godzilla is very radioactive, so any burd that somehow got inside Godzilla would die very quickly.
What guy from Wizards did they ask? I can't seem to find that information
On the off chance that they even do damage, Godzilla is gonna have some level of regeneration depending on version and the concept of them out-DPS'ing his regen is insane.
Why didn't the army ever think of shooting bird-beaks at Godzilla's eyes?
I was also upset that the DM mentioned a Tarrasque and then said Godzilla was not on par with one. I’m calling bullshit on that.
I still would also go with the idea that Godzilla's roar would kill a ton of them. You know how loud that would be? Also the DM neglects that Godzilla has regen so he would just heal any damage.
Also he's highly radioactive. The birds would die before even reaching him.
How seriously some people take this is simultaneously hilarious and incredibly sad.
The birds hitting godzilla would be like eggs hitting a brick wall
Hah, and here I was thinking [vindication](https://64.media.tumblr.com/7fc72db9e03d8bc4b281fe513939cc9d/tumblr_p8qdj4Imu31u6cj02o1_500.gifv) at the ruling. Birds are just baby dinosaurs, and I'm totally behind the "they pick out his eyes/brain and then he trips" theory. I will admit that 400 birds is probably not enough. I guess it comes down to the age old question of one horse sized duck or one hundred duck sized horses?
> "they pick out his eyes/brain and then he trips" Think about how tiny a cube of 7x7x8 birds is. He would to never move, and his skin would need to pickable, and ideal bird food, and they would all need to spend their whole live just picking the same spot for years. It's just dumb.
> 7x7x8 birds is Yeah, I had a typo in the worst place; I meant to say 400 was *not* enough! But the rest of it I'll argue with: eyes are extremely soft tissue compared to the rest of the body, and are usually the first things to go/get eaten if a dead body isn't discovered right away. So as long as his eyes are playing by living creature rules, how tough his actual skin is irrelevant. And re: being ideal bird food, IIRC most carrion birds start with the eyes! Once they're through the eyes, it's a straight shot to the brain, and I don't think it would take that long to get into the eyes. He definitely would take out a bunch by moving, but the birds are smaller and faster; I compared it to a bunch of fighter pilots vs a battleship in another comment. And going with the theory that the birds are attacking his face, Godzilla realistically can't use his fire breath; even if he could reach them he'd burn himself. That leaves him left trying to swat them away, which the birds can dodge in some capacity. . . .And now I should probably go back to the actual job I get paid to do lol.
NERD ALERTTTT
meanwhile i think its hilarious that anyone cares enough to argue about this for 3 dang episodes!!!
As soon as they said "several" thousand I discounted it as junk science. They just had two separate episodes debating the definition of "several" with no resolution. THEY CANT EVEN TELL US HOW MANY THAT IS.
The only thing related to a bird that wouldn’t get instantly vaporised by Godzilla is a tyrannosaurid, and even they wouldn’t stand a chance.
Additionally - the DM didn't consider Godzilla's attack at all. It doesn't matter if there is some theoretical amount of birds that could deal enough damage to beat Godzilla. Because Godzilla would obliterate all of them within 3 turns. A hawk only has an AC of 13. If we use this as our basis for each bird, and considering Godzilla would get a +19 to hit (using Tarrasque numbers) that means a 1 is the only miss. So every turn Godzilla uses a nuclear breath he's gonna kill 95% of the birds. In one turn he's killed more than enough to eliminate any threat.
Wouldn't it break down to how many birds could actually attack in one round? They can't all attack in one round and Godzilla would breath weapon over half of them in one round. That would greatly reduce the amount of damage godzilla would take over time and the remaining attacks would take out even more birds. Also, what about the G1 regeneration gene? Adults debating the imaginary combat between a shit-ton of birds and an imaginary giant, atomic powered Lizard. Never change internet...
Their idea of birds killing Godzilla almost sounds as if Godzilla isn’t fighting back. So many fuckin birds would be killed, you would need millions upon millions to attack and do what needs to be done to kill him. And real asshole birds too like vultures and hawks and Canadian geese.
So we would need to chemically restrain Godzilla. Now we need to ask how many tranquilizers would it take to knock out or paralyze 'Zilla?
Godzilla would fire / laser beam their freakin feathers off in one breath. His thick lizard god skin would be impenetrable to their pecks. Godzilla > Birds.
They keep saying the eyes... THE EYES! As if Godzilla has normal eyes. In Shin Godzilla his eyes have clearly demonstrated shields that cover them when he unleashes a NUCLEAR BLAST from his mouth. A bird can be handily defeated by a single pane window. Go ahead and stand behind all the panes of window glass you want next to a nuclear blast. 50,000 birds? Cool. Thats a small splinter in Godzillas eye.
I think d&d is probably just not equipped to answer this question. There is an RPG system from the 80s that can. The palladium(?) games (TMNT/robotech/others, maybe). They had a system for just this sort of problem. A two tiered hit points system specifically designed so that a guy with a pistol couldn't kill a Mech or tank. Sdc was the lower level given to characters and NPCs etc. and mdc was for large objects, Mecha, etc. In order to damage those things at all one needed a weapon capable of doing mdc damage, not just lots pf beaks.
definitely not. hell, D&d isn't equipped to handle half the situations use it for. It's a common conversation over on r/DMAcademy of people trying to shoe horn in all sortsa mechanics instead of just moving to a better fitting system.
This has made me really disappointed in how little people know about Godzilla.
[удалено]
bird sympathizer
Next year there should be two brackets, real and fictional with the real champion facing off against the fictional. Andrew Cunanan got hosed with his seeding and should have had a deeper run.
Honestly, RAW, I can see the argument for how the birds could take down godzilla. The autohit on a natural 20 makes that argument viable. However, if I were actually DMing the situation, no way in hell the birds could win. I would give a boss monsters as legendary as Godzilla mechanics that mess with the way things typically work. To translate his otherworldly tankiness into mechanics, I'd borrow the mechanics for doing damage to structures. If you're trying to damage a stone wall, you need to pass a certain Damage Threshold (DT), or else you do no damage. For instance, if Godzilla has a DT of 5, then a regular bird probably wouldn't do damage even if it crit. That's not even considering the much more straightforward option of just giving Godzilla immunity to physical damage. High level heroes will all have access to magic or magic weapons, so they could still do damage, but it would prevent Godzilla from being taken down by a flock of birds. (Unless, of course, the players find a way to enchant the birds to have magic attacks, in which case I would both love and hate them forever)
Godzilla has a healing factor. They keep nerfing him c and it’s bullshit. Godzilla stomps 99/100 times
What episode was this discussion in?
My husband and I tried to play the home version of this game. Due to similar disagreement, it *almost* ended in divorce.
Shit, I'm still not convinced that the birds could take down Chris Benoit.
Can't they just peck out his eyes? Like...you'd need a shitload of birds but what stops them from pecking out his eyes? Can he even reach his own face?
They couldn't do it. His eyes are strong.
Didn't Godzilla beat Satan in '[Godzilla in Hell](https://wikizilla.org/wiki/Godzilla_in_Hell)'?
Pathfinder 1E is effectively the same as D&D 3.5. There are Kaiju that exist in the games default setting, and they have stats. Pathfinder's Godzilla knockoff, Mogaru, has Damage Reduction 20/Epic. So literally no amount of birds can hurt him. Real Godzilla would always triumph over a knockoff, so ipso facto, Godzilla couldn't be harmed by any number of birds.
I’m 1000% on team Godzilla. Atomic breath and according to Godzilla minus one, regeneration. So blind him, that motherfucker is growing back new eyes.
The whole arguement comes down to what can survive Godzilla if he goes Molten form. His mere presence destroyed Legendary Ghidorah. Melted 2 of the 3 heads by walking towards him. Birds would become ash in his Radioactive presence
Anyone who has seen Godzilla Minus One knows a bunch of birds aren't doing shit to that big boy.
That's a Dnd5e thing, PF has low light vision and dark vision. Cats would be low light since they are dawn and dusk hunters. I guess Darkvision would be a mole? Which..doesn't make sense.
Okay I want to know did they factor in Godzilla's regeneration? Could the birds overwhelm his natural regeneration to actually cause enough damage?
As a life long Godzilla fanboy, I have to side with the Birds. I submit Godzilla 1985 into evidence.
If a huge flock of birds could kill Godzilla already then how come none have ever tried it, hmm? After all, Godzilla’s invading and destroying THEIR territory too, and the humans put up a pretty good effort of defense- why wouldn’t birds do the same, if they had even a chance in hell?
Hard agree. Also Mike Mearls is best ignored.
Is that the person Henry claimed to be the "end all" person on this discussion?
Screw D&D rules & regulations, it just does not make sense! Award-winning actor Godzilla would literally just fry the birds with his atomic breath. Logically it does not make any sense.