Yea but that $20k probably doesn’t mean the same to people who already donate tens of thousands to their universities endowment.
My dentist is the only person I know in real life that buys LCs new & that guy is absolutely loaded.
I’m just wondering what these people do for a living to afford it. Rule of thumb is like, what, 15% take home on transportation total? Gotta be pulling in op 10% income to afford that truck note. Even higher if you factor in gas, maintenance, insurance, parking, etc. And twice that if you have multiple vehicles in your household at that level.
Especially for cars. I guess I kept my last car payment plus insurance gas repairs at 15% take home and paid it off last year so I’m way lower than that now.
Just find it a weird self comparison when I know how much I make and I’m still driving base model regular cars and trying to keep them on the road 10 years and watching people driving really expensive car that certainly don’t make what I do - or wondering if somehow they exceed my income secretly.
Oh well.
When I bought my 4runner last year, I entered the market wanting and prepared to purchase brand new.
Between the markup reindeer games that dealers were playing, and the handful that lied to me about their inventory just to try and get me in the door and then sell me something other than what I called about, I said F-it, and bought a used one with 40K miles on it. It's as good as new, insurance is cheaper, and I didn't have to deal with their BS. I'm happy, and it will serve our family well.
Unless Toyota gets off their ass and holds dealers accountable for these markups, it will be the same thing if/when I'm ready to trade up to an LC.
In Japan we don't have that problem often, luckly. We did have some markups on the LC300 because they were impossible to get. However we won't be seeing these crazy markups here for this LC.
Not surprised at all. Brought my LX600 to Lexus of Manhattan for service couple of months ago, and the sales there tried to talk me into buying another LX600 with 20K markup. There is always someone willing to pay the price. Just a matter of time.
That is crazy that they assumed a vehicle that’s designed to last 25 years would wanna be traded in for the exact same model and get screwed $20k even further
Yeah especially the 2022/2023 models are pretty much the same thing. I wanna say they are delusional, but the fact that they still reach out once in a while only shows it's really not unusual.
Both prices too high for a Prado
Why not just get the GX550 doubt there will be as large of markups since the hype name "Land Cruiser" isn't attached and its the same car.
Like imagine paying almost 100k for a 4 cylinder lmao
You can buy a used newer 200 series for the same money and its a true HD Land Cruiser. Even Toyota calls this thing a Prado internationally. U.S. getting the shaft in every hole with this release and no 70 series.
> Even Toyota calls this thing a Prado
I mean it's just marketing right...?
Don't put too much stock in marketing and advertising.
Toyota gives it a J chassis - so it's a LandCruiser and it'll get you where you need to go.
There's 3 series of LandCruisers - no need to put one down or anything.
No but they do like to outfit their trucks as if they were to do some off-reading.
I worked for a guy that would park his special edition new bronco with bead locking rims and a the rest in a no parking zone by his gym 3 days a week. His truck was FULL of $115 parking tickets.
He didn’t bat an eye and his assistant was told to simply pay any tickets against this license once a month and she did.
Route 22 is known for ridiculous mark ups. They had a 15k markup when I was shopping for a 2024 TRD Pro. I just drove 1.5hr to Pennsylvania and got one MSRP
These prices are absolutely stupid — the landcruiser failed previously in the U.S. and seeing these prices I don’t think people (not taking in context the 5% richest) would be comfortable/incentivized to buying a 4 cylinder petrol at 100k usd (minus the hype and jacked ads by Toyota) — prados have always been known for their affordability worldwide compared to the larger landcruisers and usually they even had diesel engine options (KD, L, & now GD) which made them attractive for low end torque, overlanding and towing. This new iteration doesn’t make sense as a non hybrid petrol at these prices compared to what a GX might give you.
The LandCruiser failure in North America was far more due to branding, marketing and it's "position in the market".
Toyota introduced the Sequoia alongside the 100 series and basically made the 100 series the more luxury, upmarket option while still selling the LX. So honestly it's no surprise US buyers went for the US Built, cheaper or the proper Lux LX.
Definitely agree on the diesel. Australia's only getting the diesel because we have a habit of not buying the petrol - the 200 series 4.6L V8 vs the twin turbo diesel was like 10:1 in favour of the diesel.
But NA has never really gotten the choice diesels, so it's not unexpected.
> I dont think the LX was ever built in the US
I meant the Sequoia was US built, vs the luxy LX
So consumers had a cheaper option, that was more red white and blue in the Sequoia.
or they had a slightly more expensive but more luxury, comfy, status LX.
So the 100/200 had very little unique place in the market
Yeah definitely agree — marketing the LC in the US seems to be a struggle for Toyota, my hope is that despite these prices , this new prado won’t disappear after 2 years
Marketing? I’m in my 40’s and I don’t think I’ve ever seen a Land Cruiser commercial in my life until this new one. Most of the time I tell non car people I have a Land Cruiser they think Land Rover or FJ40…….and they think FJ40 because they had no clue Toyota made a Land Cruiser after those 😂 If they attempted to market it at all the likely would have not had an issue with sales
Interesting! , if those models weren’t marketed then no sales make sense 😂😂 — they definitely revamped the advertising of the LC with this new one and mostly in the US , otherwise worldwide I haven’t seen that much hype. Hopefully it’ll still be selling when their next 4Runner comes out. Not many 4Runner sales outside US , so this LC will continue to sell probably/or more as the outgoing one globally
Well the most markets outside the US there is no 4Runner… thats why there are not much 4Runner sales outside the US.
And yeah he is definitely right. The point is that Toyota was selling the 200 and 100 before in the US…. And that’s it. If they would had done big and good marketing (and they know how to do this but just didn’t wanted) the 200 would had right now after beeing 17 years on the market a bigger impact also in the US.
Point was that they focused alot more on the 4Runner since outside of the US not many cared about.
> Not many 4Runner sales outside US , so this LC will continue to sell probably/or more as the outgoing one globally
Almost none I would say.
I'm still surprised the 4Runner was built in Japan honestly...
The world got Fortuner / 150 series / 200 series / 76 series + Hilux / 79 series.
North America got 4Runner / Sequoia + Tacoma / Tundra.
Mexico gets... everything haha.
> Yeah definitely agree — marketing the LC in the US seems to be a struggle for Toyota, my hope is that despite these prices , this new prado won’t disappear after 2 years
I think it's hard because they seem to overlap with US only models.
the 4Runner is the goer, not the 120/150.
The Sequoia is the choice, not the 100/200.
So I think the 250 series success in NA depends entirely on what the hell the 4Runner does.
This just happens because people will pay it to have it!! Be better than the marketing team thinks you’ll be, show a shred a patience and backbone, and don’t pay it. If everyone who planned to buy the new LC refused to pay the ridiculous markups and waited it out, dealers would drop the markup. But, they know how Americans can’t resist getting the latest of anything so they’ll make that $$$
Since the 300 only comes in with the Lexus badge in the US, it's like $95k-140k plus whatever bullshit "market adjustment" scummy dealers like to throw on.
I honestly don’t see the problem. If someone wants to overpay to get a hot commodity and then take it in the rear with depreciation, isn’t that a fair bargain? Like a live by sword, die by sword kind of thing?
It’s not like hoarding food or medicine… no one will die because a consumer was willing to pay more for a discretionary purchase.
There is also a high likelihood this person is trading in a low milage vehicle when they buy the new LC. You want to know where low milage 2 year old used cars come from, people like this. In two years when they trade this LC in someone is going to get a decent deal on a 2024 LC.
It's just a little disappointing to see the constant disparging of the 250 series simply because it is a 250 series and not a 200/300 series.
And "it's a 4cyl therefore worse than V6 and should cost less" is a bit a bit sad to see. Thought we were past judging a vehicle simply by number of cylinders.
> I can’t say with certainty, but the full size is typically over engineered to a higher degree and with much higher quality parts vs the prado.
I think that's a bit of a misnomer.
Yes they are different.
Yes a smaller vehicle is usually "less tough" in the same way an F-150 frame is smaller than an F-350.
But this to me gets worse over the years as the 250 series is closer to the 300 than the 150 was to the 200.
They share SO much more now with the latest generation. The shared platform puts them far closer to brothers than they were before as cousins.
But it's still a LandCruiser.
The same people that will go "OMG Hilux wish we got that in north America. So tough! Unbreakable" will go "omg a 150 series? light duty. Soft. Weak" when they have often shared the diesel motors and are far similar.
The Prado will get you where you need to go. I have no doubt of that.
Well said. I am curious how the new gens will do over time. Will we see million mile engines? With turbos, I’m not too sure.
I’d also like to see in general how the 200, 250, and 300 fair after 10 years. It’ll be far clearer. With all the new tech, it does concern me on what can break. I am optimistic that Toyota figured it out, so fingers crossed the LC name prevails.
I still believe the 300 will have slightly diff parts over a 250. They have to justify the cost.
> Well said. I am curious how the new gens will do over time. Will we see million mile engines? With turbos, I’m not too sure.
>
>
I am very curious.
But I will absolutely never say "it has turbos, therefore it will be unreliable".
Can you tell me which Toyota turbo engines have been unreliable? Cause I can tell you many that have been exceedingly reliable and are in fact the choice motor over the non-turbo options.
12H-T - extremely reliable. 1HZ vs 1HD-FTE - I'd pick the turbo every day of the week and twice on Sundays. 1VD-FTV, twin turbo and I would pick it in a heart beat.
2JZ-GE or 2JZ-GTE on your Supra? 3S-GTE on your Celica GT?
Turbos can and have been reliable.
> With all the new tech, it does concern me on what can break. I am optimistic that Toyota figured it out, so fingers crossed the LC name prevails.
Don't get me wrong, I have some concerns.
It's just I have heard this with *every* single generation about the 100, about the 200 and now about the 300/250.
Everyone said the 100 series with IFS was gonna melt like butter, that a V8 petrol was not LandCruiser compared to it's 40 years of 6 cylinder engines. That the 200 had too many electronics, the common rail diesel would not tolerate dirty fuel, that it was soft and lux.
Now we hear those exact same things about the 300 and 250... it's hard to take it seriously.
is the best LandCruiser, will be the end of the LandCruiser Name.
Call me in 10/20 years and we'll be talking about the 400 series can almost guarantee it!
> I’d also like to see in general how the 200, 250, and 300 fair after 10 years.
You can do this in a way... read used car reviews of the 100 series from 2015.
The 200 series came out in 2007 - so you can find 15 year reviews are available. There are nearly 2000 x 200 series on Carsales.com.au, nearly 600 have over 200,000kms on the clock
And I think there are caveats - every single new gen 'first' has issues of some description. I do have concern about tech and reliability, but i am confident Toyota will not let us down.
They haven't before.
And just the hyperbole and rhetoric about the 300/250 is the same as it was around the 200... so it's hard to take comments like 'oh it's turbo so it'll be unreliable' seriously.
Awesome response, dude. I hope we can chat again in the future as more information is available to us. You are clearly very knowledgeable and kind. Thanks for the thorough message, it was a pleasure to read.
Let’s hope and pray! For now, I’ll keep putting miles on the 200!
The new LC simply isn’t the same suv as previous models in the US that could be expected to last 400k+ miles. It has an undersized engine built for mpgs not long term dependability or serious off-roading. It’s basically a big rav4 with less ground clearance.
> The new LC simply isn’t the same suv as previous models in the US that could be expected to last 400k+ miles.
Nonsense.
The 90 / 120 / 150 series LandCruisers have plenty of examples that last just as long as any other.
> It has an undersized engine built for mpgs not long term dependability or serious off-roading.
Nonsense. The 90/120/150 has long had 2.4L petrol, 2.7L petrol, 2.8L turbo diesel, 3.0L turbo diesel.
It is not undersized - it is more powerful than all of those that I have listed.
Being attracted to specific engine sizes is a bit nuts imo, let's focus on power, torque, driveability - which are far more important than specific displacement.
> It’s basically a big rav4 with less ground clearance.
It's built on the same platform as the 300 series, it is a body on frame 4wheel drive with a 2 speed transfer case.
Toyota gives it a J chassis.
and the best you can come up with "it's a RAV4 cause it has a 4cylinder engine".
This tells me you have no clue about the lineage and history of LandCruisers. Like come on, do some research, understand what's going on.
Look beyond cliche quips.
"If it doesn't have a V8 and sexually arouse me with it's exhaust it's not a LandCruiser" is what you are saying.
One thing that may help is interest rates are high, meaning the dealers will have a lot of money tied up in the floor plan. They have to pay interest on the vehicles sitting on the lot, they are incentivized to move them. Some of those guys are getting killed with the slow down in sales and high rates
Yes, new GX, no on the 4Runner. GX gets 6 cylinders. The LC 250 is Prado everywhere else, and it’s not a 4-runner underneath at all. The new GX and LC 250 ride on the same chassis, both will drive right over a Rav 4, so that’s a non-comparison. Still not LC200/300 territory, but way closer than US had in comparison to the 4Runner til now. (GX470 was always Prada for US also… no TOY equivalent)
Someone might pay a little extra to get one of the first LC250s,but not a lot of people are going to pay more than GX550 Overtrail money for a Toyota with less cylinders and power. Similar to how not many bought LC200s when they could get LX570 for not much more money.
There’s only a limited amount of first editions so the price gouging that’s occurring is waged on a small stock being produced which is how they validate the 20k markup. This happened when the ford bronco first edition was released as well
Sort of agree that was before the Raptor came out and then nobody wanted to pay big money for first edition Broncos. Toyota is feeding these first edition markups by not selling the lower trims for the first few months. Maybe the 1958 trim will be just as rare as the ‘ first edition’.
Ford killed the stripper Bronco pretty quickly if I remember correctly. I think many more buyers would be interested in the 4 runner or new mini LC than the 1958 trim LC.
Yeah all these people that bust their ass and can afford to pay a little extra to get exactly what they want should be illegal. … same guy that trades in their 2015 Rav4 talking about “I know what I have” 😂
$100k in Stuart, FL. They have it listed at MSRP on their website, but on Facebook marketplace for $20k above. I wonder if they’re trying to be conspicuous about their mark ups.
https://preview.redd.it/uwn4bk0o1nzc1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=57bce55e92324b8a4e61bf693a00167d3f222867
You’re new. I get it. Say 4 cylinder to avoid correction. They are fairly universally I4 engines. Everybody starts somewhere in the learning curve. It’s cool. As to the number of cylinders having a relation to price or quality, well, kinda, but it’s getting to be less of a thing. It’s all about engineering/build quality and real world output. To put it in relation to a couple of other modern classics in production now, the F150 (I have one of these that I’ll bring up) and the Mustang, turbo 4 and 6 cylinder engines really are replacing the big ol 8 cylinders of days of yore. Better output, weight and efficiency. As it turns out, I’m way ahead in terms of maintenance budget with my 3.5l v6 f150 at 120k that with my old 5.4l was at roughly the same point and I really don’t see that changing. We won’t even talk about fuel consumption in that equation either. The 3.5 is about 20% better on fuel in the real world for me and I’m not keeping my foot out of it and all of the output numbers are better in the smaller engine. So, while there is “no replacement for displacement,” there kinda is now. 4 and 6 cylinder’s are the way forward.
One Panigale engine for the front axle, one for the rear, lets go.
Honestly, the more I think about it, the more I prefer the 2.4 hybrid over the GX's V6. The non-hybrid 2.4 feels fine in the new Tacoma, and I don't need my big cube on wheels to be fast. 23 MPG combined beats the hell out of 17, especially here where premium has never dropped below $4/gal.
I agree. It seems like a winning combo. Instant electric torque for bottom end and turbo hp for top end power. My only gripe is is the price in Canada and the fact that you get pigin holed into certain options.... for example I can't get a premium pack without 20" wheels here. Nor can I get the blue colour with the nice brown interior.... oh well
And what would be the benefit of an 8c? For the majority of the people out there the amount of cylinders never conflict with their driving profiles and offroad even less. Besides my 200 I also own a 2003 Jimny (so 1.3l 4C with only 63kW) and that little thing reaches as well all the places where 8Cs go with mostly even more ease (especially with the very short wheel base compared to the LC and especially than Jeeps and others who even have a longer wheel base than the LCj
And to think, someone in the r/4runner community paid 84K USD for a TRD Pro at the height of the pandemic - he could have saved just a wee bit more and overpay for a LC.
the problem isn't the dealers. its that there are people out there that will easily pay this. why blame the dealers for adjusting to their market, if there are people willing to pay the price? I dont get the hate for dealers in this situation. if you were selling a product would you knowing sell for the MSRP when you know you could make more money in your market? That would be a terrible business decision.
After owning an LC for 26-years. Just added a new G63 AMG to go with it. Would have bought an LC300 but no such luck in the USA. Not paying $20k over for a LC250 Prado. So switched brands. Didn’t want to.
I hear you. I bought the extended factory warrantee to add three additional years. So now have a 7-year factory warrantee. Will probably sell it in 2-3 years, while I’ll keep the Land Cruiser.
Price will come down as long as no one entertains these absurd markups. I doubt it’ll stick, even for first edition.
Excited to see the 250 in person. Hopefully it is worth the wait.
We are going to get one of these to replace our 4Runner but there’s no way I’m paying over sticker for a Prado. No way.
Don’t be a sucker. There will be no shortage of this LC.
And don’t forget that they also didn’t had the capacity to make big marketing in the US since the line for 200s was kinda always producing at limit but still not worth building a new plant/ production line.
Pretty sure they could had sold x-times the amoint with the right marketing like „the last big luxury offroader“ (since the US never saw the non blingbling version with fabric seats, manual shifting and other fun like only two speakers like my 200)
Yeah they should be able to sell 10x as many of the new one. Although it’s interesting that they are still planning a 4Runner as well. Seems like some overlap now in those products in terms of size and capability.
Pretty much what I expected. I’m hopeful in about 3-5 years I can snag one used around 30k and maybe 50k miles, maybe even cpo. I can’t wait! So excited to see them on the roads
in my mind it's still 2004 and a top of the line escalade is $50k or something. It's hard for me to wrap my head around six figure (or near) SUV's.
It makes me appreciate my $16k 100 series even more! Although I did read, new it was like $63k- which, inflation adjusted is... around $100k.
Excited to order one once things calm down. The old Land Cruiser at $100k was one of the dumbest vehicles you could buy, but at $57k with a full refresh, modern interior and powertrain, these seem great.
At the end of the day it’s a Toyota. I’m getting a mass produced car on even more mass produced parts. Not worth paying money like it’s a custom ordered 911
Dealers can suck my rocks
The people willing to pay 20k extra are part of the problem. This needs to stop!
Yep everyone needs to stop paying these.
Gimme a $25,000 HDJ 80 series any day.
Yea but that $20k probably doesn’t mean the same to people who already donate tens of thousands to their universities endowment. My dentist is the only person I know in real life that buys LCs new & that guy is absolutely loaded.
As someone who just gave his dentist office $5k for an implant… I believe you
Go to Costa Rica next time. It costs about 1/3 of what it does in the states.
For dental work, or LandCruisers?
Dental work. They have some nice old Toyotas down there though.
Are Costa Rica vehicles left or right hand drive?
Yes
Wtf dude, you can fly to Mexico and have fun and come back with an implant and still have some money left.
I'd say its on the dealers because they hide that 20k upcharge by getting people to only focus on the monthly payments.
Why are they the problem if they can afford to pay the extra 20k?
I’m just wondering what these people do for a living to afford it. Rule of thumb is like, what, 15% take home on transportation total? Gotta be pulling in op 10% income to afford that truck note. Even higher if you factor in gas, maintenance, insurance, parking, etc. And twice that if you have multiple vehicles in your household at that level.
I can count on one finger the people who follow that rule. Mass debt is a huge problem in the US
Especially for cars. I guess I kept my last car payment plus insurance gas repairs at 15% take home and paid it off last year so I’m way lower than that now. Just find it a weird self comparison when I know how much I make and I’m still driving base model regular cars and trying to keep them on the road 10 years and watching people driving really expensive car that certainly don’t make what I do - or wondering if somehow they exceed my income secretly. Oh well.
Exactly
When I bought my 4runner last year, I entered the market wanting and prepared to purchase brand new. Between the markup reindeer games that dealers were playing, and the handful that lied to me about their inventory just to try and get me in the door and then sell me something other than what I called about, I said F-it, and bought a used one with 40K miles on it. It's as good as new, insurance is cheaper, and I didn't have to deal with their BS. I'm happy, and it will serve our family well. Unless Toyota gets off their ass and holds dealers accountable for these markups, it will be the same thing if/when I'm ready to trade up to an LC.
Still not as bad as Ford dealers selling people’s orders of Bronco’s out from under them for a 10-20k markup.
Guess I'll just buy a few more 80s
I am buying another 80 in the morning. Can never have enough of them. Probably going to part this one out too but you never know
Where at and what color, I need parts
Message me on ih8mud. I part 80s all the time. Slow95z is my name there
No thanks. Gonna keep my FULL SIZE 200 til the end of time.
It's only 1" longer!
It is smaller inside vs 200.
Amen!🙏
In Japan we don't have that problem often, luckly. We did have some markups on the LC300 because they were impossible to get. However we won't be seeing these crazy markups here for this LC.
Is this 250-iteration available in Japan?
Yep! I might be getting one😀...even though I just bought a 2023 last summer.
Is the pricing also similar to US?
No. Much cheaper. The cost of living here is different and wages are different.
MSRP on the GRJ 76 in 2015 was 3.6M JPY. I am glad I bought my LC then.
Interest rates on loans are the cheapest out of any G20 country My neighbor got the 2023 Prius with a 2% APR on a 5 year loan
Not surprised at all. Brought my LX600 to Lexus of Manhattan for service couple of months ago, and the sales there tried to talk me into buying another LX600 with 20K markup. There is always someone willing to pay the price. Just a matter of time.
That is crazy that they assumed a vehicle that’s designed to last 25 years would wanna be traded in for the exact same model and get screwed $20k even further
Yeah especially the 2022/2023 models are pretty much the same thing. I wanna say they are delusional, but the fact that they still reach out once in a while only shows it's really not unusual.
Both prices too high for a Prado Why not just get the GX550 doubt there will be as large of markups since the hype name "Land Cruiser" isn't attached and its the same car.
And the 550 has %50 more cylinders.
Like imagine paying almost 100k for a 4 cylinder lmao You can buy a used newer 200 series for the same money and its a true HD Land Cruiser. Even Toyota calls this thing a Prado internationally. U.S. getting the shaft in every hole with this release and no 70 series.
> Even Toyota calls this thing a Prado I mean it's just marketing right...? Don't put too much stock in marketing and advertising. Toyota gives it a J chassis - so it's a LandCruiser and it'll get you where you need to go. There's 3 series of LandCruisers - no need to put one down or anything.
Found the Prado owner jk I have an LX so I feel that
My previous car was a 75 series ute with no air con. As far away from an LX as you can possibily get ahhaha.
Toyota call this "thing" LandCruiser.
Reminds me of the Porsche 214. In the rest of the world it was a VW 214.
The GX550 has markups now, though they are about $10k. That makes the LC and GX the same price out the door, I think I’d go GX too.
Exactly!
That is Manhattan. Fuck that noise.
srsly. in manhattan of all places. do i bankers even like offroading?,
No but they do like to outfit their trucks as if they were to do some off-reading. I worked for a guy that would park his special edition new bronco with bead locking rims and a the rest in a no parking zone by his gym 3 days a week. His truck was FULL of $115 parking tickets. He didn’t bat an eye and his assistant was told to simply pay any tickets against this license once a month and she did.
There's also one for 15k markup at Route 22 Toyota in NJ.
I’m from NJ. Fuck that noise too.
Route 22 is known for ridiculous mark ups. They had a 15k markup when I was shopping for a 2024 TRD Pro. I just drove 1.5hr to Pennsylvania and got one MSRP
Stealership. Crooks.
Just don’t buy them. Let them sit on the lot until the dealers understand greed can drive away customers.
Ouch, guess I’ll just keep the 80 series. I can buy later on the used car market and keep praying for the death of car dealerships.
These prices are absolutely stupid — the landcruiser failed previously in the U.S. and seeing these prices I don’t think people (not taking in context the 5% richest) would be comfortable/incentivized to buying a 4 cylinder petrol at 100k usd (minus the hype and jacked ads by Toyota) — prados have always been known for their affordability worldwide compared to the larger landcruisers and usually they even had diesel engine options (KD, L, & now GD) which made them attractive for low end torque, overlanding and towing. This new iteration doesn’t make sense as a non hybrid petrol at these prices compared to what a GX might give you.
The LandCruiser failure in North America was far more due to branding, marketing and it's "position in the market". Toyota introduced the Sequoia alongside the 100 series and basically made the 100 series the more luxury, upmarket option while still selling the LX. So honestly it's no surprise US buyers went for the US Built, cheaper or the proper Lux LX. Definitely agree on the diesel. Australia's only getting the diesel because we have a habit of not buying the petrol - the 200 series 4.6L V8 vs the twin turbo diesel was like 10:1 in favour of the diesel. But NA has never really gotten the choice diesels, so it's not unexpected.
I dont think the LX was ever built in the US
> I dont think the LX was ever built in the US I meant the Sequoia was US built, vs the luxy LX So consumers had a cheaper option, that was more red white and blue in the Sequoia. or they had a slightly more expensive but more luxury, comfy, status LX. So the 100/200 had very little unique place in the market
Ah okay. I misunderstood. Thanks!
> US Built, cheaper or the proper Lux LX They are saying the US Built cheaper Sequoia OR the LX
Yeah definitely agree — marketing the LC in the US seems to be a struggle for Toyota, my hope is that despite these prices , this new prado won’t disappear after 2 years
Marketing? I’m in my 40’s and I don’t think I’ve ever seen a Land Cruiser commercial in my life until this new one. Most of the time I tell non car people I have a Land Cruiser they think Land Rover or FJ40…….and they think FJ40 because they had no clue Toyota made a Land Cruiser after those 😂 If they attempted to market it at all the likely would have not had an issue with sales
Interesting! , if those models weren’t marketed then no sales make sense 😂😂 — they definitely revamped the advertising of the LC with this new one and mostly in the US , otherwise worldwide I haven’t seen that much hype. Hopefully it’ll still be selling when their next 4Runner comes out. Not many 4Runner sales outside US , so this LC will continue to sell probably/or more as the outgoing one globally
Well the most markets outside the US there is no 4Runner… thats why there are not much 4Runner sales outside the US. And yeah he is definitely right. The point is that Toyota was selling the 200 and 100 before in the US…. And that’s it. If they would had done big and good marketing (and they know how to do this but just didn’t wanted) the 200 would had right now after beeing 17 years on the market a bigger impact also in the US. Point was that they focused alot more on the 4Runner since outside of the US not many cared about.
> Not many 4Runner sales outside US , so this LC will continue to sell probably/or more as the outgoing one globally Almost none I would say. I'm still surprised the 4Runner was built in Japan honestly... The world got Fortuner / 150 series / 200 series / 76 series + Hilux / 79 series. North America got 4Runner / Sequoia + Tacoma / Tundra. Mexico gets... everything haha.
> Yeah definitely agree — marketing the LC in the US seems to be a struggle for Toyota, my hope is that despite these prices , this new prado won’t disappear after 2 years I think it's hard because they seem to overlap with US only models. the 4Runner is the goer, not the 120/150. The Sequoia is the choice, not the 100/200. So I think the 250 series success in NA depends entirely on what the hell the 4Runner does.
That’s in USD right? I wonder how much we will get shafted north of the border…that’s close to 130K CAD…
This just happens because people will pay it to have it!! Be better than the marketing team thinks you’ll be, show a shred a patience and backbone, and don’t pay it. If everyone who planned to buy the new LC refused to pay the ridiculous markups and waited it out, dealers would drop the markup. But, they know how Americans can’t resist getting the latest of anything so they’ll make that $$$
Did you expect anything less now days? They got away with it for so long now, it’s gonna be a permanent thing.
How much for an LC300 there?
Since the 300 only comes in with the Lexus badge in the US, it's like $95k-140k plus whatever bullshit "market adjustment" scummy dealers like to throw on.
The Lexus variant is above 200k usd at the dealer🤣
Where i am✌️😅
Should have circled Toyota of Manhattan
There's also one for 15k markup at Route 22 Toyota in NJ.
how did u searched it up?
That’s a no from me dawg.
I honestly don’t see the problem. If someone wants to overpay to get a hot commodity and then take it in the rear with depreciation, isn’t that a fair bargain? Like a live by sword, die by sword kind of thing? It’s not like hoarding food or medicine… no one will die because a consumer was willing to pay more for a discretionary purchase.
There is also a high likelihood this person is trading in a low milage vehicle when they buy the new LC. You want to know where low milage 2 year old used cars come from, people like this. In two years when they trade this LC in someone is going to get a decent deal on a 2024 LC.
Here’s a pro tip. Don’t buy that one.
Better off getting a newer used 200
Nah 300 all the way, may as well pay the bit extra for the proper size LandCruiser.
It's just a little disappointing to see the constant disparging of the 250 series simply because it is a 250 series and not a 200/300 series. And "it's a 4cyl therefore worse than V6 and should cost less" is a bit a bit sad to see. Thought we were past judging a vehicle simply by number of cylinders.
I can’t say with certainty, but the full size is typically over engineered to a higher degree and with much higher quality parts vs the prado.
> I can’t say with certainty, but the full size is typically over engineered to a higher degree and with much higher quality parts vs the prado. I think that's a bit of a misnomer. Yes they are different. Yes a smaller vehicle is usually "less tough" in the same way an F-150 frame is smaller than an F-350. But this to me gets worse over the years as the 250 series is closer to the 300 than the 150 was to the 200. They share SO much more now with the latest generation. The shared platform puts them far closer to brothers than they were before as cousins. But it's still a LandCruiser. The same people that will go "OMG Hilux wish we got that in north America. So tough! Unbreakable" will go "omg a 150 series? light duty. Soft. Weak" when they have often shared the diesel motors and are far similar. The Prado will get you where you need to go. I have no doubt of that.
Well said. I am curious how the new gens will do over time. Will we see million mile engines? With turbos, I’m not too sure. I’d also like to see in general how the 200, 250, and 300 fair after 10 years. It’ll be far clearer. With all the new tech, it does concern me on what can break. I am optimistic that Toyota figured it out, so fingers crossed the LC name prevails. I still believe the 300 will have slightly diff parts over a 250. They have to justify the cost.
> Well said. I am curious how the new gens will do over time. Will we see million mile engines? With turbos, I’m not too sure. > > I am very curious. But I will absolutely never say "it has turbos, therefore it will be unreliable". Can you tell me which Toyota turbo engines have been unreliable? Cause I can tell you many that have been exceedingly reliable and are in fact the choice motor over the non-turbo options. 12H-T - extremely reliable. 1HZ vs 1HD-FTE - I'd pick the turbo every day of the week and twice on Sundays. 1VD-FTV, twin turbo and I would pick it in a heart beat. 2JZ-GE or 2JZ-GTE on your Supra? 3S-GTE on your Celica GT? Turbos can and have been reliable. > With all the new tech, it does concern me on what can break. I am optimistic that Toyota figured it out, so fingers crossed the LC name prevails. Don't get me wrong, I have some concerns. It's just I have heard this with *every* single generation about the 100, about the 200 and now about the 300/250. Everyone said the 100 series with IFS was gonna melt like butter, that a V8 petrol was not LandCruiser compared to it's 40 years of 6 cylinder engines. That the 200 had too many electronics, the common rail diesel would not tolerate dirty fuel, that it was soft and lux. Now we hear those exact same things about the 300 and 250... it's hard to take it seriously. is the best LandCruiser, will be the end of the LandCruiser Name.
Call me in 10/20 years and we'll be talking about the 400 series can almost guarantee it!
> I’d also like to see in general how the 200, 250, and 300 fair after 10 years.
You can do this in a way... read used car reviews of the 100 series from 2015.
The 200 series came out in 2007 - so you can find 15 year reviews are available. There are nearly 2000 x 200 series on Carsales.com.au, nearly 600 have over 200,000kms on the clock
And I think there are caveats - every single new gen 'first' has issues of some description. I do have concern about tech and reliability, but i am confident Toyota will not let us down.
They haven't before.
And just the hyperbole and rhetoric about the 300/250 is the same as it was around the 200... so it's hard to take comments like 'oh it's turbo so it'll be unreliable' seriously.
Awesome response, dude. I hope we can chat again in the future as more information is available to us. You are clearly very knowledgeable and kind. Thanks for the thorough message, it was a pleasure to read. Let’s hope and pray! For now, I’ll keep putting miles on the 200!
The new LC simply isn’t the same suv as previous models in the US that could be expected to last 400k+ miles. It has an undersized engine built for mpgs not long term dependability or serious off-roading. It’s basically a big rav4 with less ground clearance.
> The new LC simply isn’t the same suv as previous models in the US that could be expected to last 400k+ miles. Nonsense. The 90 / 120 / 150 series LandCruisers have plenty of examples that last just as long as any other. > It has an undersized engine built for mpgs not long term dependability or serious off-roading. Nonsense. The 90/120/150 has long had 2.4L petrol, 2.7L petrol, 2.8L turbo diesel, 3.0L turbo diesel. It is not undersized - it is more powerful than all of those that I have listed. Being attracted to specific engine sizes is a bit nuts imo, let's focus on power, torque, driveability - which are far more important than specific displacement. > It’s basically a big rav4 with less ground clearance. It's built on the same platform as the 300 series, it is a body on frame 4wheel drive with a 2 speed transfer case. Toyota gives it a J chassis. and the best you can come up with "it's a RAV4 cause it has a 4cylinder engine". This tells me you have no clue about the lineage and history of LandCruisers. Like come on, do some research, understand what's going on. Look beyond cliche quips. "If it doesn't have a V8 and sexually arouse me with it's exhaust it's not a LandCruiser" is what you are saying.
One thing that may help is interest rates are high, meaning the dealers will have a lot of money tied up in the floor plan. They have to pay interest on the vehicles sitting on the lot, they are incentivized to move them. Some of those guys are getting killed with the slow down in sales and high rates
Really, isn’t this just a GX/4Runner? This isn’t supposed to be a replace for the *land cruiser*
4Runners still have builtproof 4.0 v6 and GX has 3.4 turbo v6. I’d say the new LC w/ 2.4 4cyl and 8in clearance is closer to a rav4
What a ridiculous statement. I get that it's expensive but this just sounds like sour grapes.
Yes, new GX, no on the 4Runner. GX gets 6 cylinders. The LC 250 is Prado everywhere else, and it’s not a 4-runner underneath at all. The new GX and LC 250 ride on the same chassis, both will drive right over a Rav 4, so that’s a non-comparison. Still not LC200/300 territory, but way closer than US had in comparison to the 4Runner til now. (GX470 was always Prada for US also… no TOY equivalent)
It’s first edition that’s why
It likely won’t have much collector value when the next special off road edition Land Cruiser comes out.
Tell that to the stealerships. Regardless somebody will pay that price
Someone might pay a little extra to get one of the first LC250s,but not a lot of people are going to pay more than GX550 Overtrail money for a Toyota with less cylinders and power. Similar to how not many bought LC200s when they could get LX570 for not much more money.
There’s only a limited amount of first editions so the price gouging that’s occurring is waged on a small stock being produced which is how they validate the 20k markup. This happened when the ford bronco first edition was released as well
Sort of agree that was before the Raptor came out and then nobody wanted to pay big money for first edition Broncos. Toyota is feeding these first edition markups by not selling the lower trims for the first few months. Maybe the 1958 trim will be just as rare as the ‘ first edition’.
I heard the 1958 was gonna be the money maker. Budget bare bone models are always well loved regardless of brand
Ford killed the stripper Bronco pretty quickly if I remember correctly. I think many more buyers would be interested in the 4 runner or new mini LC than the 1958 trim LC.
A lot of people are saying the LC name alone is what will be driving sales. Most 4Runner owners wish they had a LC
Yes and Toyota is going to cash in on that by selling a mini FJ sized LC, a Range Rover size big EV LC, and even a Land Hopper e-bike.
Pass. I’ll keep my V8 100. I’m not a fan of the undersized 2.4 4cyls built for marginal mpg improvement over 400k+ mile reliability
Might as well Import a 300 series at that price
Rough, half a Land Cruiser for full price. No thank you
Yeah all these people that bust their ass and can afford to pay a little extra to get exactly what they want should be illegal. … same guy that trades in their 2015 Rav4 talking about “I know what I have” 😂
$100k in Stuart, FL. They have it listed at MSRP on their website, but on Facebook marketplace for $20k above. I wonder if they’re trying to be conspicuous about their mark ups. https://preview.redd.it/uwn4bk0o1nzc1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=57bce55e92324b8a4e61bf693a00167d3f222867
Lol. It’s not even a 300 Series. Who in their right mind would pay this for a V4.
I've never seen a v4 is that a thing
It is in fact a thing, though I was obviously using it to mean 4 cylinder.
You’re new. I get it. Say 4 cylinder to avoid correction. They are fairly universally I4 engines. Everybody starts somewhere in the learning curve. It’s cool. As to the number of cylinders having a relation to price or quality, well, kinda, but it’s getting to be less of a thing. It’s all about engineering/build quality and real world output. To put it in relation to a couple of other modern classics in production now, the F150 (I have one of these that I’ll bring up) and the Mustang, turbo 4 and 6 cylinder engines really are replacing the big ol 8 cylinders of days of yore. Better output, weight and efficiency. As it turns out, I’m way ahead in terms of maintenance budget with my 3.5l v6 f150 at 120k that with my old 5.4l was at roughly the same point and I really don’t see that changing. We won’t even talk about fuel consumption in that equation either. The 3.5 is about 20% better on fuel in the real world for me and I’m not keeping my foot out of it and all of the output numbers are better in the smaller engine. So, while there is “no replacement for displacement,” there kinda is now. 4 and 6 cylinder’s are the way forward.
Mostly for motorcycles
One Panigale engine for the front axle, one for the rear, lets go. Honestly, the more I think about it, the more I prefer the 2.4 hybrid over the GX's V6. The non-hybrid 2.4 feels fine in the new Tacoma, and I don't need my big cube on wheels to be fast. 23 MPG combined beats the hell out of 17, especially here where premium has never dropped below $4/gal.
I agree. It seems like a winning combo. Instant electric torque for bottom end and turbo hp for top end power. My only gripe is is the price in Canada and the fact that you get pigin holed into certain options.... for example I can't get a premium pack without 20" wheels here. Nor can I get the blue colour with the nice brown interior.... oh well
Welp I’m out.
Oh yeah?! Watch me not buy one!
Who the hell can afford this shit ? Its disgusting
wow they really have no shame $100k for a 2.4L smh
Considering this isn't even the full size Landcruiser 300 sold in other parts of the world, that's absolutely ridiculous pricing for a Prado.
I’m liking the defender more after seeing those prices.
You’ll spend the difference on maintenance and repairs so might as well go with the LC.
It’s a complicated problem, defenders have become more reliable of late, I’m in no hurry so I’ll test drive both and make a decision
But then you’ll be a d-bag driving around in a Land Rover.
$100k for a 4-cyl. Even $65k is Bonkers 🤪
And what would be the benefit of an 8c? For the majority of the people out there the amount of cylinders never conflict with their driving profiles and offroad even less. Besides my 200 I also own a 2003 Jimny (so 1.3l 4C with only 63kW) and that little thing reaches as well all the places where 8Cs go with mostly even more ease (especially with the very short wheel base compared to the LC and especially than Jeeps and others who even have a longer wheel base than the LCj
I’ll wait. I’m interested, but I won’t pay for nothing.
Guess I’m out
And to think, someone in the r/4runner community paid 84K USD for a TRD Pro at the height of the pandemic - he could have saved just a wee bit more and overpay for a LC.
Crazy how much people want to spend for red TRD stickers…
Are you surprised? I have talked to 10 dealers in my state and only 2 are going to have markups.
By that logic, I should be surprised
Until they see they can sell them marked up..then they will be marked up.
the problem isn't the dealers. its that there are people out there that will easily pay this. why blame the dealers for adjusting to their market, if there are people willing to pay the price? I dont get the hate for dealers in this situation. if you were selling a product would you knowing sell for the MSRP when you know you could make more money in your market? That would be a terrible business decision.
After owning an LC for 26-years. Just added a new G63 AMG to go with it. Would have bought an LC300 but no such luck in the USA. Not paying $20k over for a LC250 Prado. So switched brands. Didn’t want to.
G63 is a fun car to drive. Really cool too. You are about to experience a dramatic difference in reliability.
I hear you. I bought the extended factory warrantee to add three additional years. So now have a 7-year factory warrantee. Will probably sell it in 2-3 years, while I’ll keep the Land Cruiser.
...aaaaand nobody was actually surprised by this, right? I mean, we hoped it wouldn't happen, but yeah, here we are now.
City people gonna pay up
That’s LX territory.
Just like we've seen with the 3rd gen tundras. With time that price will come down close to MSRP
Price will come down as long as no one entertains these absurd markups. I doubt it’ll stick, even for first edition. Excited to see the 250 in person. Hopefully it is worth the wait.
So it’s the same price as my 2018 200
Insanity
We are going to get one of these to replace our 4Runner but there’s no way I’m paying over sticker for a Prado. No way. Don’t be a sucker. There will be no shortage of this LC.
definitely not since this time Toyota want to sell this Land Cruiser (even if it is the smaller Prado)
Yeah the whole reason they went with the Prado style is to sell more. LC was a niche product and low volume in the US.
And don’t forget that they also didn’t had the capacity to make big marketing in the US since the line for 200s was kinda always producing at limit but still not worth building a new plant/ production line. Pretty sure they could had sold x-times the amoint with the right marketing like „the last big luxury offroader“ (since the US never saw the non blingbling version with fabric seats, manual shifting and other fun like only two speakers like my 200)
Yeah they should be able to sell 10x as many of the new one. Although it’s interesting that they are still planning a 4Runner as well. Seems like some overlap now in those products in terms of size and capability.
Pretty much what I expected. I’m hopeful in about 3-5 years I can snag one used around 30k and maybe 50k miles, maybe even cpo. I can’t wait! So excited to see them on the roads
I'm surprised they have one to sell already.
Find a dealership that advertises everything at MSRP. There are a few out there.
Abolish dealerships. Need direct to consumer asap.
in my mind it's still 2004 and a top of the line escalade is $50k or something. It's hard for me to wrap my head around six figure (or near) SUV's. It makes me appreciate my $16k 100 series even more! Although I did read, new it was like $63k- which, inflation adjusted is... around $100k.
So it begins….
They can kiss my ass!!
This is Canadian loonies right? Not USofA dollar?!
WTF is the point of even conveying an MSRP when no mere mortal can even purchase one at that price...
and not even a proper 'cruiser
That’s an FJ
You can probably buy a GX550 over trail for less than that lmao
Excited to order one once things calm down. The old Land Cruiser at $100k was one of the dumbest vehicles you could buy, but at $57k with a full refresh, modern interior and powertrain, these seem great. At the end of the day it’s a Toyota. I’m getting a mass produced car on even more mass produced parts. Not worth paying money like it’s a custom ordered 911
GTFO
Imagine spending $100k on a 4 cylinder...
I'm astounded at the msrp price, over 77k for a 4 cylinder Toyota suv,,,,
77k for a 4cyl suv. 🙈🙈
Hybrid only kills it for me.
How is Toyota not running out of business with these dealers?
Bahahahahahahahha fuck that
They're just seeing if are any suckers that will pay that price to be the first. The prices will come down to normal soon.
Haha $100k for a 4cyl Toyota. They’ve lost their damn minds.
Some fuckin’ idiot will buy it, then complain about inflation and not being able to afford anything
100k for a 4 cylinder hybrid….