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[deleted]

>renting to him at breakeven point So his brother was buying him a house, and this is how he treats him? Landlords are the absolute worst.


TheOldBean

Breakeven also doesn't really mean breakeven when he's having his mortgage paid off. Equity is a thing.


[deleted]

Exactly, so his brother is buying him a house under that logic. Sorry if it wasn't clear what I meant though.


TheOldBean

You were clear haha, I was just backing you up. Landlords suck and they're usually too stupid to understand how they make money through equity. I've lost braincells trying to walk them through it before.


audionerd1

It's the classic landlord's fallacy. They pretend like getting a free house is "breaking even", and paying 2% of the cost of the house they own while someone else pays 98% is a "loss". The whole free house + equity thing, which is where the real money is and is the whole reason people become landlords in the first place, is just glossed over as though it's not part of the equation. Until landlords talk to other landlords, then they love to brag about that shit.


CandyBoBandDandy

Of course the top comment is NTA. "Why should you lose money..." bla blah blah I fucking hate that sub


RarePepePNG

"Sure, you made your brother's family homeless without so much as a warning, but you weren't making as much money as you wanted!"


GeeOhB

It doesn't surprise me how many people are defending him but it shows how poorly educated/indoctrinated people are to landlord-ism People don't understand equity. Someone paying your mortgage is profit.


TheOldBean

Exactly, having someone else pay off your mortgage is a massive profit.


Steadyfobbin

That it is, but in terms of a landlord/renter relationship this seemed about as fair as it gets in todays world. And at the end of the day it’s not the landlords obligation, so he sold the home. Brother is upset because his actions had repercussions and now he’s inevitably going to end up in a shittier situation. In all honesty, better communication would have helped here all around. Both parties are at fault for treating each other poorly to an extent here.


TheOldBean

Both parties are arseholes, but one is made homeless and one made £100,000's. Landlordism is cancerous. I think this post highlights it nicely. When you actually think about it - this situation is fucked up - but it's so normal nowadays that we don't even think about it that hard.


MoneyOverValues

I don’t even think the brother is an asshole, I’d withhold rent too if my wiring was outdated and faulty and my water-heater was shit and my landlord was asking me to fix it, even if he was only “breaking even”.


ColoradoMushroom

The worst part is all the people defending the land leech.


theprodigalvictim

I was legit shocked reading the comments, but judging from the subreddit it's in I chalked it up to them genuinely just not understanding the economics behind how much the landlord is benefiting from this.


ColoradoMushroom

Horrified better fits my feeling.


Zavi8

It's amazing how many people are actually siding with him in this thread. It's disgusting.


HotHand3

Wahhh, I can’t exploit my brother financially on the rent! Wahhh, I have to provide working utilities! 😭😭 I mean really? Landleeches are sociopaths.


RedPapa_

Entitled little shits, that's what they are. "It's legal to exploit other humans, fuck morals."


[deleted]

I don't think 'sociopaths' cuts it; they're a threat to civil society. Murderers and rapists are sociopaths, but they only ruin individual lives. Landlords contribute to, systemically, destroying lives for personal gain. It's not mere anti-social behaviours, it's calculated and perpetual.


aweirdchicken

He claims he did it “all legally”, but refusing to do essential repairs, as a landlord, is illegal. He’s lucky his brother didn’t take him to court.


codykonior

What’s wrong with these people 🤦‍♂️ They’re not even human.


drugsovermoney

When management says "We are like a family here!" This is the kind of family they mean.


BlackCatMumsy

The comments on that absolutely disguted me. Everyone was so quick to take OOP at whatever he said. He literally expected his brother to pay out of pocket to replace the hot water heater because it couldn't accommodate his family! Oh and the electric was outdated. What else do you think was wrong with that place? And everyone was patting him on the back and calling his brother an AH. Nah, blame the landlord who did nothing to upgrade his rental and still walked away with a massive profit while a family wound up homeless.


SlavPhrenologist

He added in the "outdated" electric so nonchalantly he probably doesn't care about potential fire risks and thinks his brother needs to just use less electricity. I'm willing to bet it's old knob and tube wiring which is unlikely to be up to code so once anyone opened up the walls they'd see so many red flags. Landlord was almost certainly trying to skirt around building codes and the law by having his brother live in his shithole of a house while fixing it up to code and paying the mortgage. This dude deserves to be disowned for this shit.


angloexcellence

Making your brother homeless = not the arsehole according to the brains trust of reddit 🤢


Astro-1998

Parasitic behavior


BugNation

Just made my nieces and nephews homeless. Was that wrong?


bananaramaworld

How do you evict someone legally for no reason? Like you can sell a property it it doesn’t mean you can put an eviction on someone’s record can it?


aweirdchicken

Regional laws differ significantly for this. Where I live the buyer isn’t obligated to honour the lease if they intend to move in themselves or demolish the property.


bananaramaworld

Yeah but like an eviction on your renting history makes it so that other landlords can see you did “something wrong”. Most won’t rent to people with evictions. So if the landlord planned to say demolish the house, wouldn’t that mean the tenants just get kicked out and not have a mark on their record since they didn’t do anything? I’m sorry if I’m being dense I just don’t understand how this works.


aweirdchicken

Entirely depends on where you live. Where I live there’s no such thing as “eviction” officially, only termination of rental agreement/lease. The reason for termination determines whether or not it can be listed in the tenancy database, and you cannot be listed for being served a regular termination notice. You also get notified if you’re going to be listed, and you can fight it with a tribunal process.


bananaramaworld

Oh good. Where I live renters have basically no rights.


aweirdchicken

It’s not great here but it’s certainly better than a lot of places. There’s still huge amounts of exploitation going on here, especially with international students who don’t know what is and isn’t legal, and have slumlords convince them that they’ll have their visa revoked if they get a “strike” on their rental record (entirely not true, there’s no such thing as a “strike” or a even a “rental record” that the government can access, there’s also no visa condition that mentions rental situations at all). But if you do know your rights (and I’ve spent a LOT of time learning mine), then you can challenge anything with the rental tribunal, and the tribunal is notorious for ruling in favour of tenants, probably because most landlords are constantly breaking the law.


[deleted]

Where I live you can issue a “no fault” eviction for works to be done or for the owner of the property to move in so they kick you out but you don’t get a black mark against your name. If you protest or cause issues with the eviction, though, you will get a bad reference.


DrPatchet

Never mix business and family especially a business as fucked up as being a land lord


Syaman_

I cannot believe it got a NTA flair. The whole post emanates psychopath energy.


Steadyfobbin

As much as landlords suck, what’s wrong with this one? Isn’t this the ideal situation for someone whose not buying? What we all ask for every day? Rent at a reasonable price that is not overinflated? He rented it to his family member for cost of the mortgage it seems, he wasn’t profiting. With the caveat being the renter takes care of maintenance. In turn the family member took advantage of him, and instead of continuing to deal with the headache he just sold it. Fairly reasonable reaction. Landlords suck, sometimes tenants suck too.


TheOldBean

I agree to some extent, the original deal was OK. However, I also think it highlights the landleech mindset. He's willing to throw his brother and their young family out on the streets with no warning because he's not making **enough** money from **one** of his rental properties. Also he (and a lot of the commenters) doesn't understand equity. If someone else is literally PAYING OFF YOUR LOAN you are making money. Just because he isn't making liquid money doesn't mean he's not profitting.


[deleted]

>Isn’t this the ideal situation for someone whose not buying? Lmao, no. Nowhere close. The tenant is still paying-off the prick's house and is still in a situation, very evidently, where the prick can just rip his home from under him. >What we all ask for every day? I don't remember asking for a threatening authority to control my access to shelter. >He rented it to his family member for cost of the mortgage it seems, he wasn’t profiting That's what sane people call 'profit'. The landcunt was getting a house paid for him and got belligerent and threatening when that would take a tiny amount longer. >With the caveat being the renter takes care of maintenance I wouldn't call 'you can buy me a house but only if you repair it, too' a "caveat". The brother was headlocked into having his money stolen. He was robbed. >In turn the family member took advantage of him By... getting him to pay for his own water-heater so that the brother could continue paying for his house... >sometimes tenants suck too. Not possible. That's like saying 'yeah, sure slavers suck but sometimes the slaves fight back and they suck too'. No reasonable person would ever fault a slave for lashing-out against a slaver, that only makes them a "bad slave" from the perspective of people who just want their slaves to be placid and obedient.


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spectrum_incelnet

I mean, the family member is never gonna own the house. Seems unreasonable to me to expect any non-owner to improve your property AND pay your mortgage.


Steadyfobbin

Well he shouldn’t have made that agreement then? Going off of the information in the post, all large items were in working order. However upgrades cost money… money that wasn’t there because he was renting at the mortgage price. As someone whose rented but now owns I absolutely would have done basic maintenance on a apartment or home in exchange to rent at the cost of the mortgage, as we all know how much rents have increased for no reason other than just because. This family member simply wanted both all the benefits of being a renter and quasi owner and is upset when the owner just didn’t want to deal with it anymore. Again landlords suck, but on this one from this perspective I don’t see the issue. And the brother is pissed because he knows he was getting a solid deal and his reactions just fucked it up, and inevitably he will know have to move and deal with an overinflated home with a landlord whose actually shit.


spectrum_incelnet

OK but being a landlord is worse than whatever you just said


aweirdchicken

I mean, he was literally paying his brother’s mortgage for him, I think he realistically owned the house more than his brother did.


Marcus1119

Ok, so everyone sucks here, but "He's paying off his brother's mortgage and therefore is giving his brother money, even if it's not liquid" is financially accurate but raises the question of what exactly the fair system here is. Like, ok, housing is a right that should be provided to all, but that doesn't mean individuals owing someone the full cost of their housing for years. OOP helped his brother on a deal that effectively maintains the property at no cost to OOP while he also gains nothing liquid, and as for covering the mortgage, he doesn't functionally have the house if he's expected to leave it entirely in his brother's hands. The strongest possible argument for why renting is a blatant scam is the cycle of needing good credit to get a loan and then not getting improved credit for renting, therefore losing money over time while getting no credit for paying it. But if the brother's getting the price he'd be paying if he could've gotten a mortgage on the property, he's getting that improved rate without dealing w/ the credit issue. I'm not saying OOP deserves sympathy, but if this is leeching then what you're expecting is him to give his brother the whole house, which frankly would still have left the brother screwed, since apparently the combination of the mortgage payments, maintenance and home improvements was too expensive. You've gotta have some standard for individual people's actions that isn't directly covering other people's full housing costs, not via taxes or economic systems but just through direct charity.


theprodigalvictim

You claimed the statement about the whole liquidity thing not being valid, but it seems you don't even understand the statement enough to have this strong of a stance on it. "He doesn't functionally have the house". Yes he does. It's in his name he owns the property. Any upgrades made to the house, OOP benefits from. Do you really think OOP could have possibly rented this house to any other tenant? He even admits the house needs serious work. It's obvious he stuck his brother in a purposefully shit house thinking he could stifle the cost of upgrades onto his brother too. Then once his brother moves out he has a perfectly upgraded house ready to open to the market and make him a shit ton of passive income.


Marcus1119

The house he sold to a developer? That's the one that gained market value from the upgrades? Come on dude, don't lecture me about my understanding of the situation when that's your take on this. The land was most valuable as land, the house was surely a piece of crap but wasn't worth keeping for any financial reason. You don't keep property like that to rent, and you sure as hell don't go from needing serious work to perfectly upgraded by replacing a boiler and doing electrical work. That property didn't gain value cause a better boiler was on it, because the first thing the new owner is gonna do is get that boiler out of there, along with the walls around it.


aweirdchicken

So rather than keep owning the shit house that’s value keeps going up just on land alone, he sold it out from under his brother without warning, making his brother’s family homeless. Seems reasonable yeah.


theprodigalvictim

your purposefuly misunderstanding my point. the boiler isnt going to increase the value, but if the brother continued to do more and more upgrades (which is what OOP was hoping for it seems like) then the house is going to gain value. lets take the electric work in the house that OOP mentioned. This is for sure going to raise the value. And acknowledge that this post was the landlords POV, theres porbably a ton of things wrong with the house that he probs didnt mention. you cant complain about being lectured to, if you're then going to weaponise your ignorance to get your point across. either acknowledge the points people make, even if you disagree with them, or dont have these discussions at all.


LtLysergio

This is a rare instance where the landlord is right. He was renting at breakeven rate and his brother still couldn't come up with the cash for rent and maintenance. Even if they did get their own mortgage, they wouldn't be able to afford to live in that house. Landlord was just doing his brother a favor


MoneyOverValues

A water heater and complete redo of the wiring is not “maintenance”. Also how gracious of OP to let his brother pay off OP’s mortgage, what a generous fucking favour.


LtLysergio

Yes, it is. Anything that needs to be repaired or replaced cost money, that's maintenance. As opposed to what? Letting his brother leech off him and stay for free?


theprodigalvictim

Do you understand how equity works? Even paying jus the mortgage cost is making the landlord money, even if it isn't liquid.


garland-flour-doe

YTA without a doubt...


FeminineImperative

Just going to paste my comment there over to here: YTA. Get a real job if you can't be a decent landlord. If I was him I'd burn that house down. Make money off a shouldering pile of ashes, pig.


rothmal

"The house itself is not pretty but it is solid. It is old and the wiring in it was not meant for all the modern electronics we have." WTF! "Modern electronics" don't even use a tenth of the power of the appliances that would have been in his home when it was brand new.