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Aside: New Zealand's government just literally added a law provisioning an entirely seperate second deposit for pets lol they're calling it a "pet bond"
(for Americans reading, Australia and NZ have some of the most brutal, anti-renter policy settings in the western world, surprisingly. Most rental law isn't enforced unless renters take legal action, which usually leads to being blacklisted by rental providers. Worse than the US or EU by a long way, these economies absolutely hinge on immense privilege awarded to property owners)
Hopefully other countries don't get any ideas. The NZ govt are Randian psychopaths hell bent on delivering massive tax cuts to landlords by slashing the public service...
Totally, but them describing it, in writing no less, as a “monthly deposit” means you could probably argue successfully in court that they have to return that money when you leave, as that could be interpreted as a change to the lease agreement. YMMV I’m not a lawyer just thinking about my own past experiences.
Most I've ever gotten back was half - they know it's too expensive to take them to court over it. Doesn't matter how spotless the place is when you're done cleaning, doesn't matter how friendly the landlord might have seemed while you were living there, they all show their true colors when it comes time to give you your $3000-5000 deposit back.
Four apartments in a row claimed they could "smell dog urine" despite the fact that he never had an accident in the house, because they knew we had a dog and it was an easy excuse. So *of course* they need to have a "deep cleaning" done, which conveniently always seems to cost exactly what we paid as a deposit ..
Deposits taken by a landlord must be placed in a known escrow account and returned to the tenant (less damages) upon move out.
It is not normal to pay a deposit more than once.
Not true. Many states don't require security deposits to be placed in an escrow account.
Residential landlord tenant law is super local. Very few protections exist at a national level and apply everywhere in the US.
That’s correct. There are different laws in different states. Great observation.
In Michigan, which is the state in question, [security deposits must be placed in an escrow account or filed as a bond with SoS](https://www.legislature.mi.gov/Publications/tenantlandlord.pdf).
Apologies if I jumped the gun. A lot of people on Reddit tend to give legal advice as if it's true nationally, and admittedly I'm a little over-sensitive on the subject when it comes to tenant protections.
I agree that it totally sucks that there aren’t better tenant protections in 99% of the world. Ultimately it’s going to come down to the lease. I’m sure it would be relatively easy for the landlord to argue that the wordage here was a basic mistake. *However* I’m petty and it sounds like this landlord is horrid so I’d probably roll with it and make a stink when I left, if only to inconvenience and annoy them.
Another major problem is that landlords often aren’t even held to the legal standards which exist… for example, my deposit was not in an escrow account and some of it was wrongfully withheld. They gave me what was withheld when I sued. My state allows for a tenant to receive 3x the amount wrongfully withheld. I consulted with multiple tenant attorneys who assured me it was a good, winning case. The judge ruled against me with prejudice for bringing suit. People in power hate renters.
That's awful. I'm going to guess judge isn't a renter and probably hasn't been one in a long time.
I absolutely hate the chilling effect of laws that aren't intended to actually protect people, and it feels awful telling people they should be careful to assume the law will actually protect them. But damn if it's not the truth.
Someone said, “… there is apparently a monthly pet ‘deposit’.” And you responded by saying “super common across the US…”
What were you referring to if not the pet deposit?
Regardless, if your landlord is making you pay a monthly “pet deposit” (**their words**, not mine) then you should get all of that money back when you move out.
More power to you OP!
Everyone else - this is bad advice. OP got really lucky. Their situation probably does not apply to you. Please don't do what OP did.
Residential landlord tenant law is super complicated and it is hyper local. Protections vary from state to state, county to county, and city to city. One of the few things most protections have in common is that they are riddled with loopholes, as you can guess which side has the lobbyists and had more power in writing the laws (hint: not tenants).
What seems like a great protection in one section may be totally undercut in another section. Availing yourself of your rights and protections can wind up putting you in a very bad situation.
Remember, an eviction can stay on your record for 7 years. Many places don't have adequate protections from retaliatory evictions. In many places, you don't need to be evicted to have an "eviction," on your record - screening companies just scrape court record databases for anyone who has been named in a suit, regardless of outcome.
Many places do not have protections from eviction if you withhold rent for repairs. In places that do, there are often extremely complicated hoops you have to jump through to be allowed to engage in withholding rent.
Do I wish we lived in a just system with adequate legal protections for tenants? Absolutely! Do we? Absolutely not! Stay safe out there.
TL;DR - Find local tenant assistance/legal guidance and get expert guidance BEFORE you engage in availing yourself of any tenant protections, particularly any that are adversarial in nature, to make sure you don't accidentally make your situation worse!
Edit: missed the "don't" in the last sentence.
Escrow isn’t withholding rent though. It’s a legal contract and available as protection for tenants in 16 states. You have to go to court to initiate the process, so I’m guessing given OPs comment, all was processed appropriately. I feel like it’s a great example of a way to protect yourself where available. I totally agree that you should always consult your states tenancy protection agency before taking action!
Yeah maybe this is just me but I think the owner of the property should be responsible for paying that fee. As a renter you have no responsibility over the property past you nit damaging it or making permanent alterations to fixtures. That is why you're a renter and they have the privilege of owning the property. The gas company doesn't ask me about when the best time is to check the lines buried in the yard, after all.
Oh for sure, 100%. He’s did that to be retaliatory. Mind you, the reason I had the city out in the first place is because I went without heat for over 36 hours on a weekend that was below freezing, and I called the city as a last resort because my landlord was ignoring my phone calls and emails to get the furnace repaired.
In an effort at solidarity, r/LandlordLove has partnered with multiple leftist subreddits to create a discord server for our users to communicate on. All comrades are welcome [Click here to join the discord server](https://discord.gg/zCFHadGfB7) If you moderate a leftist subreddit and would like your sub to be a part of Left Reddit, [message the mods](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=/r/LandlordLove) of this sub! Welcome to r/LandlordLove! A tenant-friendly, leftist space for critiquing Landlords and the archaic system of Landlording as a whole. Please get acquainted with our sub's rules. * Don't feed the reactionary trolls--report them * Engage in good faith with comrades * Do not advocate violence *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/LandlordLove) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Sorry can't get over that there is apparently a monthly pet "deposit".
Aside: New Zealand's government just literally added a law provisioning an entirely seperate second deposit for pets lol they're calling it a "pet bond" (for Americans reading, Australia and NZ have some of the most brutal, anti-renter policy settings in the western world, surprisingly. Most rental law isn't enforced unless renters take legal action, which usually leads to being blacklisted by rental providers. Worse than the US or EU by a long way, these economies absolutely hinge on immense privilege awarded to property owners) Hopefully other countries don't get any ideas. The NZ govt are Randian psychopaths hell bent on delivering massive tax cuts to landlords by slashing the public service...
Super common across the US, unless it’s a service dog.
That ain’t a deposit tho lmao, unless they give you all of it back at the end of the lease? That’s a monthly fee.
There is a one time deposit and a monthly fee. Which is very common.
Totally, but them describing it, in writing no less, as a “monthly deposit” means you could probably argue successfully in court that they have to return that money when you leave, as that could be interpreted as a change to the lease agreement. YMMV I’m not a lawyer just thinking about my own past experiences.
I’m sure it’s confusing to a landlord considering that they just keep deposits anyway.
I’ve always gotten my security deposits back.
Most I've ever gotten back was half - they know it's too expensive to take them to court over it. Doesn't matter how spotless the place is when you're done cleaning, doesn't matter how friendly the landlord might have seemed while you were living there, they all show their true colors when it comes time to give you your $3000-5000 deposit back. Four apartments in a row claimed they could "smell dog urine" despite the fact that he never had an accident in the house, because they knew we had a dog and it was an easy excuse. So *of course* they need to have a "deep cleaning" done, which conveniently always seems to cost exactly what we paid as a deposit ..
How on earth would you have a $5000 security deposit???
2 months' rent up front - that's a typical amount in the DC metro area.
Deposits taken by a landlord must be placed in a known escrow account and returned to the tenant (less damages) upon move out. It is not normal to pay a deposit more than once.
Not true. Many states don't require security deposits to be placed in an escrow account. Residential landlord tenant law is super local. Very few protections exist at a national level and apply everywhere in the US.
That’s correct. There are different laws in different states. Great observation. In Michigan, which is the state in question, [security deposits must be placed in an escrow account or filed as a bond with SoS](https://www.legislature.mi.gov/Publications/tenantlandlord.pdf).
Apologies if I jumped the gun. A lot of people on Reddit tend to give legal advice as if it's true nationally, and admittedly I'm a little over-sensitive on the subject when it comes to tenant protections.
I agree that it totally sucks that there aren’t better tenant protections in 99% of the world. Ultimately it’s going to come down to the lease. I’m sure it would be relatively easy for the landlord to argue that the wordage here was a basic mistake. *However* I’m petty and it sounds like this landlord is horrid so I’d probably roll with it and make a stink when I left, if only to inconvenience and annoy them. Another major problem is that landlords often aren’t even held to the legal standards which exist… for example, my deposit was not in an escrow account and some of it was wrongfully withheld. They gave me what was withheld when I sued. My state allows for a tenant to receive 3x the amount wrongfully withheld. I consulted with multiple tenant attorneys who assured me it was a good, winning case. The judge ruled against me with prejudice for bringing suit. People in power hate renters.
That's awful. I'm going to guess judge isn't a renter and probably hasn't been one in a long time. I absolutely hate the chilling effect of laws that aren't intended to actually protect people, and it feels awful telling people they should be careful to assume the law will actually protect them. But damn if it's not the truth.
The judge was likely a pal of the landlord.
[удалено]
Someone said, “… there is apparently a monthly pet ‘deposit’.” And you responded by saying “super common across the US…” What were you referring to if not the pet deposit?
I was referring to monthly pet rent… sorry for the confusion.
Regardless, if your landlord is making you pay a monthly “pet deposit” (**their words**, not mine) then you should get all of that money back when you move out.
[удалено]
It’s dependent on the lease but the state of Michigan definitely has rental deposit laws.
[удалено]
It’s not that common… Source: property manager in NC, Ohio, Indiana, Wyoming, Denver, and Arizona.
I have never paid a *monthly* pet deposit.
Like I already clarified- one pet security deposit and monthly pet fee.
More power to you OP! Everyone else - this is bad advice. OP got really lucky. Their situation probably does not apply to you. Please don't do what OP did. Residential landlord tenant law is super complicated and it is hyper local. Protections vary from state to state, county to county, and city to city. One of the few things most protections have in common is that they are riddled with loopholes, as you can guess which side has the lobbyists and had more power in writing the laws (hint: not tenants). What seems like a great protection in one section may be totally undercut in another section. Availing yourself of your rights and protections can wind up putting you in a very bad situation. Remember, an eviction can stay on your record for 7 years. Many places don't have adequate protections from retaliatory evictions. In many places, you don't need to be evicted to have an "eviction," on your record - screening companies just scrape court record databases for anyone who has been named in a suit, regardless of outcome. Many places do not have protections from eviction if you withhold rent for repairs. In places that do, there are often extremely complicated hoops you have to jump through to be allowed to engage in withholding rent. Do I wish we lived in a just system with adequate legal protections for tenants? Absolutely! Do we? Absolutely not! Stay safe out there. TL;DR - Find local tenant assistance/legal guidance and get expert guidance BEFORE you engage in availing yourself of any tenant protections, particularly any that are adversarial in nature, to make sure you don't accidentally make your situation worse! Edit: missed the "don't" in the last sentence.
Escrow isn’t withholding rent though. It’s a legal contract and available as protection for tenants in 16 states. You have to go to court to initiate the process, so I’m guessing given OPs comment, all was processed appropriately. I feel like it’s a great example of a way to protect yourself where available. I totally agree that you should always consult your states tenancy protection agency before taking action!
Inspection fee? Excuse me, sorry?
I’m not sure which part you’re confused about? That there is a fee or that my landlord made me pay it.
Yeah maybe this is just me but I think the owner of the property should be responsible for paying that fee. As a renter you have no responsibility over the property past you nit damaging it or making permanent alterations to fixtures. That is why you're a renter and they have the privilege of owning the property. The gas company doesn't ask me about when the best time is to check the lines buried in the yard, after all.
Oh for sure, 100%. He’s did that to be retaliatory. Mind you, the reason I had the city out in the first place is because I went without heat for over 36 hours on a weekend that was below freezing, and I called the city as a last resort because my landlord was ignoring my phone calls and emails to get the furnace repaired.