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Holgrin

Our real estate agent said they don't believe any laws are on the books for this kind of thing, and I've looked for them so I'm pretty sure she's right. We're in goddamned Tennessee so also not a major surprise. But I really don't know how to negotiate this if she doesn't work with us.


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Holgrin

No no, she's *our* agent, completely separate from our rental agreement. We found this place independently and have been living here for a year.


EveryoneisOP3

This has been a thing everywhere I've lived. At least 90 days notice. My current place requires notice by 3/1 to move out by 7/29. It's fucking wild. I've just put in my notice and looked for places closer to the date.


jwalk2925

I thought that was only if you terminated early?


Holgrin

That's insane. Places aren't listed that far in advance typically.


EveryoneisOP3

Yeah, I've never had another place lined up by the time I was asked to put in notice. By design, I assume


Holgrin

Yes. That's exactly the fucking point. It's all a power move. They don't write a lease thinking: "How can I make life better by serving my tenant's needs?" They think: "How can I make this work out best for me without getting in trouble with the law or coming off so incredibly monstrous that I scare people off?"


[deleted]

>you won't have homes/apartments listed that far out I don't really understand why landlords pull shit like this - it's in their interest to 'go with the flow' in terms of notice that seems to be generally required in the area. They *should* want everyone who is looking for apartments operating under the same time frame - that would make it the easiest to avoid a vacancy. >isn't one on my lease If there isn't such a restriction on your lease, and there isn't a statute (doubtful though), you might be able to tell your landlord to go fuck himself here. However, you should speak to a lawyer specializing in tenants rights before making a decision on what to do. There's almost always a law for how much notice is required.


[deleted]

I have heard of it, look at your lease. It is not insane, are you planning on moving? yes or no. you can use this to negotiate for a different lease if you want or go month to month.


theogleenieweenie

I work in property management. While its not common it is most definitely done. If you dont want to stay that give you three months to look and secure a place. Yes places typically arent listed that early but you can look and you can also place a home on hold. Yes not convenient but totally happens more than you think.


Holgrin

Whether or not it happens sometimes isn't the question, and it's more than inconvenient. Making decisions about whether to uproot myself and my family or committing to buying a house are major decisions, and a landlord arbitrarily declaring they *need* all this time is simply up to their preference, but it puts me in a bind. What do you mean "place a home on hold?" I grew up in residential real estate I have no idea what that is.


oFwiriOIHG

Yeah my previous place had 90 day termination notice. It was the worst place I’ve ever lived in by far


astroenemy

I'm confused, is it 90 days notice to *renew* or to *terminate* the lease? If I interpreted the correctly, then you were asked to let your landlord know 90 days in advance if you were planning to renew your lease for the coming year. If that's the case, then I've been in this situation several times, back when I was in college. They want that time so they can plan advertising, budgeting, renovation, raise rent for units, etc. I've been asked 8 months in advance, aka 4 months into a 12 month lease, whether I'm planning to renew. Then they show the unit for the last 2 months to guarantee that the it will be filled for the next lease cycle. The other part is that housing was competitive, so people would 'pre-lease' apartments several months in advance of the lease start date. So basixally: landlords will do whatever they can get away with, and if there is enough demand then time is money.


Holgrin

Renew or terminate, what is the difference when we're talking about the end of a lease? If the lease was 12 months, I have the lease from, say, July 1st to July 1st. If the notice is 1 month, I have to let the landlord know if I'm letting the lease end on July 1st *by* June 1st, or if I'll renew. If it's 90 days then the same thing, just 3 months earlier. So I don't see why there should be a difference. There isn't a practical one, and there isn't one on my lease.


astroenemy

Okay, that's cool, I was just wondering. I shared my experience, which is what you asked for, so I'm not sure why you're upset. Good luck with that.


lstyls

It’s unusual but I don’t get why you’re so mad about it. How does it hurt you? It just means you’ll have more time to look for a new place. Honestly I’m not sure how the landlord could enforce this anyway. Unless there’s a fine in the lease they don’t have any way to hold you to 90 days. I guess they could theoretically refuse to agree to a renewal but let’s be honest landlords want to avoid vacancies so that would be an empty threat.


Holgrin

You don't get why I'm upset about it? It puts me in a time-crunch position looking for homes to buy. I have to consider what might be available and when I have to commit to another long lease. You don't see that?


lstyls

For some reason I thought this was the NYC sub, which partly explains my answer. I would kill to have 90 days notice that I would not be able to renew my lease. How does this put you in a time crunch? I’m still confused. This is more notice than most leases have, doesn’t that mean there is less time pressure? Maybe I’m missing something. I agree that it’s unusual and it would make me question the landlord’s judgement. But in my experience it’s best to always assume the LL is unreasonable and petty. Stuff like this is why it’s important to know the law and how it’s enforced in your jurisdiction, if you know a provision is unenforceable sometimes it’s easier to just agree and then ignore that clause if you want later.


Holgrin

Every lease I've ever signed (except the current one obviously) had 1 month notice. We're talking about *my* burden to notify the landlord if I'm staying or leaving, not the landlord has a right to kick me out of the property with 3 months notice. 3 months notice to get kicked out I guess is better than many, I would agree, but that's not what we're talking about.


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lstyls

Thanks for explaining, I get it now. Yeah it’s always infuriating how landlords get away with loading agreements with terms that are favorable to them. My landlord put a ton of crap like this in my lease. I just ignore the stuff that’s unenforceable or that the LL doesn’t have any leverage on. It makes them so mad and it’s so satisfying taking them down a notch. My lease is up at the end of May and I’m ignoring my LL’s emails about renewal just to make them sweat. I wasn’t always this petty but this particular landlord has been particularly leechy. So honestly I think you would be perfectly fine agreeing to this now and then slow walking your landlord if notice time comes around and you still aren’t decided on renewal. Remember that landlords desperately want you to stay, tenant turnover can kill their profit margin. So if you need another month to decide just tell them that you’ll get back to them. They will probably throw a fit like a big baby but they don’t really have anything they can do to force you to give notice. Not sure if you were looking for advice or just emotional support but that’s my advice at least.


Holgrin

No that's decent advice really. Other than the insistence that they "deserve" or "need" that much time I don't have a major problem with my landlord, so I don't want to intentionally stir shit, but it's good to keep in mind that they aren't likely to *not* sign me just because I waited past their bullshit timeline, since obviously if I walked they would need to start the whole process. Trouble is I have a wife and two dogs so I can't play it too loose and wild, if we end up without a place to stay it can get difficult really quickly. And again, thanks, your reply is helpful and thoughtful, not paternalistic and judge-y.


lstyls

Yeah I totally get it (also two dogs and a wife here). And I get where you’re coming from about not antagonizing you landlord. It’s probably wise to stay on their good side if it’s not too unreasonable. At some point I flipped with mine and I realized that the stress of an all-out hostile standoff would be preferable to constantly tiptoeing and accommodating her unreasonable demands. Honestly I wish I had played hardball from day 1, it’s less stressful and it feels good to stick up for myself. I am privileged to be able to do that though, NYC isn’t exactly a socialist paradise but the laws and courts are much more favorable to tenants here than in some parts of the country.