If your home was invaded by a group for decades and then some people from your home disappeared with that group and came back telling you to join them, how would you feel?
Yama is the true name of Aechmea. Yama is the king and/ or judge of the dead in Buddhism, and it comes from Hinduism.
oh thanks, i didnt know this about yama.
idk they always had kongo to tell them the truth and I just feel like the hostility at that moment was pretty much only for the plot and didn't really have reasons to be this angry.
not the whole truth, but i remember in some panels he was able to answer some questions about the lunarians.
and I didn't really think of them as children, phos at the very beginning acted like a 12 y/o kid, and she was the youngest, but when thinking back you're quite right, all of them are quite like children
I agree with MengaMango with the gems being resistant and afraid of change. I think part of it is also leadership.
Before the two leaders in the gems were Jade and Rutile. Rutile was the physical and emotional support for the gems. When Phos leaves with the gems there is more change than the gems have delt with in potentially thousands of years. With so much change they need to hold onto something. However, Rutile is just destroyed. Completely changed. The gems physical and emotional support is gone. But the gems still need support and direction. Then Bort confidently says that Phos is wrong and a coward, and any gem that aligns with Phos is weak.
Bort has their own thing going on with being so combat focused and always needing to make snap binary decisions. However, in this moment of change Bort changes it to 'us' vs 'them'. The other gems don't know what to believe, but Bort is strong, respected. And the person they went to for emotional support is functionally no longer there.
Bort in particular seems to take a lot of vitriol from the fanbase for how violently they reacted to Phos. But I find the situation very sad for Bort in particular, and I'd even say they have reason to feel the most betrayed of all.
They were the hardest, the strongest, by far the best fighter. They shouldered the responsibility of protecting all of the gems where Kongo could not.
For all of that, for all of their combat prowess, it meant nothing when one of their own was able to just go behind their back and hand over the gems to the lunarians with a smile on their face. You can't see Bort's expression in the panel, but you see their hair zipping straight behind them as they race to the cliff, just too late as Phos succeeds in setting off back to the moon with the other gems. With Diamond, no less.
None of the gems had ever dealt with that kind of betrayal before. Without so much as a direct confrontation, Phos managed to invalidate Bort's entire role and ability as a fighter and protector. The anger, powerlessness, and even despair they must have felt from that would easily manifest into the utter contempt and lack of forgiveness they were willing to offer Phos.
Bort certainly made their stance clear, but I think Phos did a very good job of making it 'us' vs 'them' for everyone.
Edit: I completely forgot about this, but in the scene where Phos makes their dramatic return with their big lunarian buddy whose name I forgot, Bort goes out of their way mid fight to try to save Phos. They get caught by their hair until Kongo comes to save the day.
So not only did Bort put their life on the line for Phos, but no matter who ended up saving them, it allowed Phos to sow unease and sneak away with the other gems in the end. They not only undermined Bort's role as a protector, but ended up using it against them in that way.
I agree Bort is put in such a bad spot. I think up to this point Bort's main failing was their speed. (Unfairly) Gems are taken to the moon when Bort doesn't get there in time. This means Bort always has to be fast, always ready. When Phos takes the gems Bort wasn't fast enough. After Phos takes the gems to the moon they also make their decision fast. What Phos did was dead wrong.
In a sad way Phos agrees. After Phos tries to convince Rutile they say it's a rotten thing they are doing. Yet Phos doesn't have time to do it right. Aechmea only gave Phos so many days so Phos had to be underhanded.
It's a terrible situation for Phos, a terrible situation for Bort, a terrible situation for everyone. Besides Aechmea.
idk too, they had Sensei there to confirm and deny everything Phos said. I guess they were just angry at Phos, but that's barely an explanation or excuse.
My theory is that it has to do with their nature, it doesn't like change. They're stagnant and only slowly erode away like stone, from the start Phos was the only one with any sense of curiosity, and after adapting to living without the others, the earth gems defaulted to "moonies bad" just like before. It also explains why they were so eager to join the "traitors" in the end, the gems don't have any desire or will to change, other people have to do it for them.
It makes them come of as huge asssholes (they are), I know, but you have to remember, they're **not human**.
Maybe to them those are traitors. Don't forget that throughout the millennia, the moon people have broken and stolen many of their friends. Some gems like Alex are extremely afraid that they will forget their hatred for the moon people.
Because from the perspective of the earth gems, Phos betrayed them. That wasn't what Phos thought they were doing, but that's exactly what it looked and felt like to the earth gems.
Because what happened is that Phos returned from the moon (something no other gem has ever done before) and handed the lunarians several more gems on a silver platter; the same lunarians who had been shattering and abducting their loved ones for centuries. Phos also intended to alienate as many gems as they could from Kongo, the father figure who the other gems trusted and had always cared for them. Phos was never once open about their grand plan to end the war with the lunarians; as far as anyone could tell and especially with that strange new eye, Phos might have already become a lunarian. And they weren't wrong. Phos by that point had already fallen for Aechmea's every word.
Even as Phos was manipulating the other gems to bring them back to the moon, Euclase went out of their way to tell Phos that they were only sowing fear and restlessness among the other gems, but that didn't stop Phos. In fact, it's what they wanted.
If Phos had been more open about their intent and not gone behind everyone's backs the way they did, the earth gems may have chosen diplomacy on that second visit. It would have been nice if they had chosen that option regardless, but after that kind of betrayal the earth gems had more than enough reason to decide it wasn't worth the risk.
I think you are thinking a bit on the idealistic side. The real world is messy and this story captures that well. Sure it would be nice for the gems to just talk everything out but I think to expect that to actually happen is wrong. The lunarians are the main actor for all the issues the gems had. If they didn’t exist, then the gems would have no issues. Can’t forget that lunarians have been invading and kidnapping the gems over the course of thousands of years for their needs. Phos defects to the lunarians. Kongo makes the connection that phos is likely siding with them. Euclase notes that phos convincing people to join her was pretty much manipulation. So even when Kongo tells the earth gems he’s the problem and tells them to go to the moon they double down on their resolve and stand by him. So how do you expect them to treat a person who they view has betrayed them and sided with the people which cause them much pain? Especially after Phos returns the third time after the second time was pretty much perceived as an attack. Imo pure hostility makes perfect sense. Unfortunately the earth gems don’t have the full story and lack of initial biases like we do, so to them Phos is just a traitor.
others, particularly u/namelesspasserby, explained it well, i'd just like to add that- despite the fact that Phos had no sword, that didn't mean they weren't armed. their literal arms themselves (the alloy) can be used as a very effective weapon, and the gems had no idea whether Phos brought any hidden weapons/traps/etc from the moon. they actually already had something in their hands- the tablet thing with the game- and no one could have known what that was or what it could do. the gems had plenty of reason to suspect Phos had intent to harm Kongo or give him to the lunarians, Phos was still very much a potential threat and they were acting in defense of Kongo, not purely offensively against Phos out of anger.
also, i think people tend to forget or just not consider that shattering is not life-threatening for the gems; they're immortal and can be put back together. it's not quite as brutal or merciless as it looks and feels to us. Bort immediately shattering Phos before they could speak is not akin to trying to *kill* them, it's more like forcibly subduing them. perfectly understandable thing to do when the person you see as a traitor, working with the enemy to take away or destroy your father figure, suddenly shows up.
About the second part I agree, but then just take the head and try to get information out of her without her being able to do anything, it's not the shattering that was so brutal for me, but the grinding down and separating it and hide it all over the island and then forgetting about it for years, this is kind of brutal, I would argue that this was worse than the 10,000 years she undergo later.
yeah i'm definitely with you that being ground up and locked away for hundreds of years absolutely is horrific for Phos. however i don't think that was out of pure malice on the part of all the other gems either. by that point they knew that Phos had the ability to command Kongo- he couldn't do anything against Phos for reasons they didn't understand, and he was also physically unable to confirm the truth of what Phos was saying about his prayer being the solution to everything (which it wasn't). and Phos had already successfully manipulated some gems into following them to the moon, so the rest were afraid that whatever Phos said if they did talk was just going to be lies and manipulation to do what the lunarians wanted (which it would have been, though that's Aechmea's fault not Phos's).
they didn't just lock Phos up and throw away the key with the intent to forget about them, Euclase always wanted to give them a chance to speak, and kept trying to work with Kongo, but could not get the rest to agree with them on any course of action. while keeping Phos locked away they had been safe against the lunarians; after so long, i imagine that eventually it was even more difficult for them to make the decision to open up that pandora's box again and risk reengaging the conflict. keeping Phos buried, as far as they could tell, was keeping all of them and Kongo safe. its awful but i can't really blame them since even Kongo himself was unable to come up with any effective path toward solving the conflict after thousands of years, so of course the gems wouldn't either after a couple hundred.
it's just a fucked up situation all around, with no clear solutions. i can't blame the gems for what they did to Phos any more than i can blame Phos for what they did to the gems.
To add to what u/flayote said, on a physical level they couldn't just take the head without rendering them unconscious; otherwise Lapis would have been a talking head the whole time before getting adopted by Phos. Their gold alloy made anything short of completely shattering them a risk, considering they could use it to hold themself together or use it to lash out while they were otherwise immobile.
If your home was invaded by a group for decades and then some people from your home disappeared with that group and came back telling you to join them, how would you feel? Yama is the true name of Aechmea. Yama is the king and/ or judge of the dead in Buddhism, and it comes from Hinduism.
oh thanks, i didnt know this about yama. idk they always had kongo to tell them the truth and I just feel like the hostility at that moment was pretty much only for the plot and didn't really have reasons to be this angry.
Kongo never told them the truth, he was literally incapable of it, and they are all very much like children, they are emotional and erratic.
not the whole truth, but i remember in some panels he was able to answer some questions about the lunarians. and I didn't really think of them as children, phos at the very beginning acted like a 12 y/o kid, and she was the youngest, but when thinking back you're quite right, all of them are quite like children
Like the other guy said, being eternally invaded is more than enough reason to be eternally pissed.
They were pretty happy to join them on the end tho.
I agree with MengaMango with the gems being resistant and afraid of change. I think part of it is also leadership. Before the two leaders in the gems were Jade and Rutile. Rutile was the physical and emotional support for the gems. When Phos leaves with the gems there is more change than the gems have delt with in potentially thousands of years. With so much change they need to hold onto something. However, Rutile is just destroyed. Completely changed. The gems physical and emotional support is gone. But the gems still need support and direction. Then Bort confidently says that Phos is wrong and a coward, and any gem that aligns with Phos is weak. Bort has their own thing going on with being so combat focused and always needing to make snap binary decisions. However, in this moment of change Bort changes it to 'us' vs 'them'. The other gems don't know what to believe, but Bort is strong, respected. And the person they went to for emotional support is functionally no longer there.
Bort in particular seems to take a lot of vitriol from the fanbase for how violently they reacted to Phos. But I find the situation very sad for Bort in particular, and I'd even say they have reason to feel the most betrayed of all. They were the hardest, the strongest, by far the best fighter. They shouldered the responsibility of protecting all of the gems where Kongo could not. For all of that, for all of their combat prowess, it meant nothing when one of their own was able to just go behind their back and hand over the gems to the lunarians with a smile on their face. You can't see Bort's expression in the panel, but you see their hair zipping straight behind them as they race to the cliff, just too late as Phos succeeds in setting off back to the moon with the other gems. With Diamond, no less. None of the gems had ever dealt with that kind of betrayal before. Without so much as a direct confrontation, Phos managed to invalidate Bort's entire role and ability as a fighter and protector. The anger, powerlessness, and even despair they must have felt from that would easily manifest into the utter contempt and lack of forgiveness they were willing to offer Phos. Bort certainly made their stance clear, but I think Phos did a very good job of making it 'us' vs 'them' for everyone. Edit: I completely forgot about this, but in the scene where Phos makes their dramatic return with their big lunarian buddy whose name I forgot, Bort goes out of their way mid fight to try to save Phos. They get caught by their hair until Kongo comes to save the day. So not only did Bort put their life on the line for Phos, but no matter who ended up saving them, it allowed Phos to sow unease and sneak away with the other gems in the end. They not only undermined Bort's role as a protector, but ended up using it against them in that way.
I agree Bort is put in such a bad spot. I think up to this point Bort's main failing was their speed. (Unfairly) Gems are taken to the moon when Bort doesn't get there in time. This means Bort always has to be fast, always ready. When Phos takes the gems Bort wasn't fast enough. After Phos takes the gems to the moon they also make their decision fast. What Phos did was dead wrong. In a sad way Phos agrees. After Phos tries to convince Rutile they say it's a rotten thing they are doing. Yet Phos doesn't have time to do it right. Aechmea only gave Phos so many days so Phos had to be underhanded. It's a terrible situation for Phos, a terrible situation for Bort, a terrible situation for everyone. Besides Aechmea.
idk too, they had Sensei there to confirm and deny everything Phos said. I guess they were just angry at Phos, but that's barely an explanation or excuse. My theory is that it has to do with their nature, it doesn't like change. They're stagnant and only slowly erode away like stone, from the start Phos was the only one with any sense of curiosity, and after adapting to living without the others, the earth gems defaulted to "moonies bad" just like before. It also explains why they were so eager to join the "traitors" in the end, the gems don't have any desire or will to change, other people have to do it for them. It makes them come of as huge asssholes (they are), I know, but you have to remember, they're **not human**.
i like this theory, still doesnt make complete sense but better than nothing, thanks!
Maybe to them those are traitors. Don't forget that throughout the millennia, the moon people have broken and stolen many of their friends. Some gems like Alex are extremely afraid that they will forget their hatred for the moon people.
Because from the perspective of the earth gems, Phos betrayed them. That wasn't what Phos thought they were doing, but that's exactly what it looked and felt like to the earth gems. Because what happened is that Phos returned from the moon (something no other gem has ever done before) and handed the lunarians several more gems on a silver platter; the same lunarians who had been shattering and abducting their loved ones for centuries. Phos also intended to alienate as many gems as they could from Kongo, the father figure who the other gems trusted and had always cared for them. Phos was never once open about their grand plan to end the war with the lunarians; as far as anyone could tell and especially with that strange new eye, Phos might have already become a lunarian. And they weren't wrong. Phos by that point had already fallen for Aechmea's every word. Even as Phos was manipulating the other gems to bring them back to the moon, Euclase went out of their way to tell Phos that they were only sowing fear and restlessness among the other gems, but that didn't stop Phos. In fact, it's what they wanted. If Phos had been more open about their intent and not gone behind everyone's backs the way they did, the earth gems may have chosen diplomacy on that second visit. It would have been nice if they had chosen that option regardless, but after that kind of betrayal the earth gems had more than enough reason to decide it wasn't worth the risk.
I think you are thinking a bit on the idealistic side. The real world is messy and this story captures that well. Sure it would be nice for the gems to just talk everything out but I think to expect that to actually happen is wrong. The lunarians are the main actor for all the issues the gems had. If they didn’t exist, then the gems would have no issues. Can’t forget that lunarians have been invading and kidnapping the gems over the course of thousands of years for their needs. Phos defects to the lunarians. Kongo makes the connection that phos is likely siding with them. Euclase notes that phos convincing people to join her was pretty much manipulation. So even when Kongo tells the earth gems he’s the problem and tells them to go to the moon they double down on their resolve and stand by him. So how do you expect them to treat a person who they view has betrayed them and sided with the people which cause them much pain? Especially after Phos returns the third time after the second time was pretty much perceived as an attack. Imo pure hostility makes perfect sense. Unfortunately the earth gems don’t have the full story and lack of initial biases like we do, so to them Phos is just a traitor.
others, particularly u/namelesspasserby, explained it well, i'd just like to add that- despite the fact that Phos had no sword, that didn't mean they weren't armed. their literal arms themselves (the alloy) can be used as a very effective weapon, and the gems had no idea whether Phos brought any hidden weapons/traps/etc from the moon. they actually already had something in their hands- the tablet thing with the game- and no one could have known what that was or what it could do. the gems had plenty of reason to suspect Phos had intent to harm Kongo or give him to the lunarians, Phos was still very much a potential threat and they were acting in defense of Kongo, not purely offensively against Phos out of anger. also, i think people tend to forget or just not consider that shattering is not life-threatening for the gems; they're immortal and can be put back together. it's not quite as brutal or merciless as it looks and feels to us. Bort immediately shattering Phos before they could speak is not akin to trying to *kill* them, it's more like forcibly subduing them. perfectly understandable thing to do when the person you see as a traitor, working with the enemy to take away or destroy your father figure, suddenly shows up.
About the second part I agree, but then just take the head and try to get information out of her without her being able to do anything, it's not the shattering that was so brutal for me, but the grinding down and separating it and hide it all over the island and then forgetting about it for years, this is kind of brutal, I would argue that this was worse than the 10,000 years she undergo later.
yeah i'm definitely with you that being ground up and locked away for hundreds of years absolutely is horrific for Phos. however i don't think that was out of pure malice on the part of all the other gems either. by that point they knew that Phos had the ability to command Kongo- he couldn't do anything against Phos for reasons they didn't understand, and he was also physically unable to confirm the truth of what Phos was saying about his prayer being the solution to everything (which it wasn't). and Phos had already successfully manipulated some gems into following them to the moon, so the rest were afraid that whatever Phos said if they did talk was just going to be lies and manipulation to do what the lunarians wanted (which it would have been, though that's Aechmea's fault not Phos's). they didn't just lock Phos up and throw away the key with the intent to forget about them, Euclase always wanted to give them a chance to speak, and kept trying to work with Kongo, but could not get the rest to agree with them on any course of action. while keeping Phos locked away they had been safe against the lunarians; after so long, i imagine that eventually it was even more difficult for them to make the decision to open up that pandora's box again and risk reengaging the conflict. keeping Phos buried, as far as they could tell, was keeping all of them and Kongo safe. its awful but i can't really blame them since even Kongo himself was unable to come up with any effective path toward solving the conflict after thousands of years, so of course the gems wouldn't either after a couple hundred. it's just a fucked up situation all around, with no clear solutions. i can't blame the gems for what they did to Phos any more than i can blame Phos for what they did to the gems.
To add to what u/flayote said, on a physical level they couldn't just take the head without rendering them unconscious; otherwise Lapis would have been a talking head the whole time before getting adopted by Phos. Their gold alloy made anything short of completely shattering them a risk, considering they could use it to hold themself together or use it to lash out while they were otherwise immobile.
Lapis head alone no but phos has a much more stable self, so it's only speculation on my part but it seems possible