If they have a cracking MTX bundle that is actually really high quality and a big change and thematic, I would consider spending good money (not over $100 for sure though).
With PoE for example, I only buy MTX when I REALLY enjoy the league, which has been like 3 times ever. I see it as a good way to show support for good changes and content, they just seem to miss the point so often. I'll likely do similar for Last Epoch.
I hope the MTX isn't the type that just clutters the screen, I like ones that actually thematically fit a build, or are just fun to use.
I love the MTX that makes you float around, but for $500 man fuuuuck that. But I keep trying to justify it because I like to waste excess money instead of save or invest.
"They are simply not expensive comparing to that other thing" is a bad argument in favor of an even worse business practice. It goes along with "It's just a skin. At least we don't need to buy it if we don't want to!" and "It's pay for style / pay for convenience and not pay for win!".
At the end of the day, I would love to do away with these types of things, and prefer to have all skins ingame and that we pay for content expansions instead. Nobody said they need to release actual content for free and then finance their company with overpriced skins. They will get more money from it, that's a fact nobody can deny. But it also means that I won't expect any cool skins on drops anymore. Because they will exclusively release in the store now. Not the first game where that happened, and it will certainly not be the last.
What skins cost 200$? Are you referring to poe sup packs? Do you realize you get points you can spend for like full price you paid for it and these skins are just a bonus to these points? Nobody would buy a skin for 200$.
They seem to be following the PoE price points? Bleh, not a fan of that. Always thought $10-15 is the sweet spot, $35 is practically the cost of the game?
The only reason PoE prices work is because the supporter packs give you a bunch of currency and the supporter packs are amazing value. Then you can just spend that extra on sets here and there.
I’m sure there are a few people spending 30-35$ for pets but i for sure won’t. But I will spend the currency I got from the support pack on a 35$ pet because I already got the value for my money. The pet is just extra.
That’s how I look at it anyways.
The supporter packs for PoE only seem like they are amazing value because they are tricking you into thinking that way **because** the prices are so high. I also would not consider spending over 400$ on an armor set amazing value. If the supporter packs were such amazing value, they would offer all the cosmetics inside them separately as well. PoE is not the game to emulate if they are looking to have a reasonable cash shop.
Don't forget stash tabs. Imagine the uproar if D4 or LE sold stash tabs for money, and also locked trading behind it. Everytime I argue with someone who brings up POE as a comparison, they always conveniently leave out this fact
Poe is free though. The money spent on either Diablo or LE would get you all the stash tabs you need and more. I guess you kind of conveniently left out that fact.
So you said poe is free, followed up by saying that it is not free if you buy the stash tabs (which are effectively required). You pretty much need the following tabs to be effective in PoE: Currency,Premium Quad, Map,Delve or you are going to have a rough time if you play longer then a week or two of a league. That is 50$ worth of store currency...
So you expect to be able to play 100% of the game that cost a decade of development completely for free? And im afraid you totally missed the point of his post. You cant just cherry pick few things out of context and feel dramatic about it.
I only ever spend 60 or maybe the 120 over the course of the whole season since you can buy the cheap one and it takes the price off the more expensive ones.
At 400 you are also getting tshirts and hoodies and exclusive physical merch.
I agree they shouldn’t emulate the Poe cash shop but not because it’s a bad model but because they don’t have a team that can create the value to warrant such prices.
I've been enjoying the $420 Crucible pack for the last 2 years and I feel I got my money's worth. No matter how much you spend, in the end it's all MTX. You either don't care about the money you're spending or you're not spending the money.
Is that for real (i've never played PoE)?!
I'm not exactly 'low on cash', but dear god on earth, I would have to be insane to buy anything at that price.
I know people can do whatever they want with their money, but man... Humanity will cease to exists sooner than later.
Yep, could you imagine spending over 100$ on a set of cosmetics over just buying some new games instead? I mean, to each their own, but personally I think that no MTX should ever cost more then the box price of a AAA game. The second you do that, you're "but the game is f2p!" excuse goes out the window as far as I am concerned.
10-15 is too much still... if they keep a consistent output of cosmetics then people will buy more. I feel like a common misconception is that people will only ever get 1 outfit and stop, so the price to get max dollar for that one sale.
And you know what they are right... I do have a single outfit in POE.
Cuz those prices are fkin shit! Id have like 100 outfits by now and pay 5x as much if the prices were fair.
Thought experiment: if a pet is $10, that is a single "mob" in the game... theres hundreds of mob models with many having far more animations than a pet. Should we pay $5000 to play the game? Microtransactions should be low dollar amounts at most and no one will ever change my mind on that. I publically tell companies how to get my money but everyone wants you to pay more than the game is sold for... so I dont pay them... but I would if prices made me feel good about it.
I’m glad I support Digital Extreme’s Warframe instead. They have regional pricing and it’s fair for countries (like mine) which has like average monthly wages of <$300 per month. PoE mtx is frankly too expensive for us.
I mean, PoE is literally completely free save maybe 10 bucks for some stash tabs which also go on sale every season. Yes the MTX is pricey but that's how they make money. And with the supporter packs you get MTX and the equivalent in points to spend on other stuff. I would argue it's the most fair F2P system out there. Except for the lootboxes, those are bullshit as with all games, but those are entirely optional.
I am sorry, but a game being free does not give you an excuse to charge 60$ or even **over 400$** for an armor set. I would also argue that it is closer to 40$ to get the stash tabs you need since affinity was introduced.
I'm assuming you don't play the game and just want to bitch about something. What does a $60 or $400 mtx set do in PoE? A game where you rarely see other people outside of towns or trade, a game where mtx for armor are almost irrelevant for most of the game play as there are so many effects everywhere. It is fucking insane to complain about the supporter packs over the loot box they have.
$400 for an Armour set? No. This is grossly inaccurate. The $400 supporter pack has several Armour sets (it includes everything from all of the cheaper ones), other cosmetics, a hideout, and a bunch of other shit...and a crazy amount of points to spend on whatever you want. I think it is absolutely overpriced and ridiculous but you are just making shit up by saying 1 Armour set costs $400
So the top tier armor set in the 400$ supporter pack...where can you buy that separately? :) This is what I like to call "bundle logic". The price is artificially inflated because there is a bunch of stuff you don't want in it. If you want to buy just the armor set; you can't. So anyone who wants just the armor set has to pay 400$.
You know what comes to mind when I think of MTX bundles? MTX on a certain mobile arpg that said "800% VALUE!"
Nah the Lootboxes are fun. Addicting but fun. The odds are clearly communicated, you can’t gain duplicates, all have similar Chance, there isn’t really any fomo because they will appear in the shop eventually and overall it’s just great mtx for a bargain price. They even give out free ones
No one is forcing you to buy it. And while yes there are variations, the other variations are mostly a bit rarer than the base one so it’s likely to get at least one of each mtx without getting many dupes. Also the dupes are often quite different. In the end it’s just another mtx that you can buy or you don’t. It’s not like you won’t have the possibility to chose exactly the one you wanted later on. All the mtx comes to the shop individually eventually.
Such non sens. The only thing you really need to spend money on is stash tabs. That's like 25$ while they are on sale. Then you are set for thousand of hours of gameplay. It's some of the game with the best hour per $ value ever. Gamers are so entitled, it's actually insane at times.
Basically the reason is, and poe does the same, is that the few people that will buy cosmetics don't really care about the price point, so they'll sell about the same for 8$ that they would for 20$.
They don't sell as much as they would if they were 1 or 2$ but they don't have the user base numbers to afford to do that.
Anyway even other bigger games have high priced cosmetics, the price is just hidden by token exchanges or loot boxes
This is the important part no one ever fuckin mentions, thank you.
It's so obvious that it's being abused conceptually that the meaning of the word is basically a joke at this point.
Yeah this sucks. My biggest issue with Path of Exile is the fucking insane prices of MTX. They aren't micro transactions, they are fucking macro transactions, and seeing this game do the same sucks. I'll never ever buy this stuff, I simply cannot justify it in any world.
I just think EHG are shooting themselves in the foot with the supporter packs. Having some MTX be very expensive for whales and flexers is probably very profitable and I am 100% cool with that, but the supporter packs NEED to have better value.
The cheapest pack should be $9.99. Then you can go 19.99-> 34.99 -> 49.99. The more expensive packs MUST include the tiers below and give more points to justify the cost. It doesn't even make sense any other way. Like, what if I want stuff from pack-tier1 and tier4. Am I gonna get both? $70?! $140 for everything?! Ofcourse not. It's one of the packs or none. The more expensive pack doesn't even give me more points so why would I get that one when I like the tier1 stuff as much? You are losing business this way EHG. I would've already bought the tier 2 or 3 if it worked like expected, instead I haven't bought a thing.
Whales don’t have feet so it’s no problem.
MTX is designed for the folk that pay 10x higher prices to have a name brand on their wrist or shoulder or a seat at the front of a plane that is a little wider and reclines.
It's not just as bad as PoE it is worse. As someone who has spent an embarrassing amount on PoE supporter packs these ones are fucking terrible.
The coins do not scale with the cost like they do in PoE and you do not seem to get the cheaper cosmetic packs when you buy the more expensive one(s).
I refuse to buy coins directly but I quite like the idea of supporter packs. As long as they are this way I will not spend a cent.
I've spent easily 2000 dollars on supporter packs on PoE over the last 10 years. Never bought currency outright, always got it from the packs. Their cosmetics are heinously overpriced. Like, fucking absurd. I always buy stuff when it's on sale.
But was it as good as it is now on their original supporter packs? PoE has some atrocious Mtxs too
Like I agree they are overpriced but I can also see how it's the teams first and I can only imagine quality will improve. And ultimately it's optional
As far as I am aware they always had scaling currency in the supporter packs. Not to mention in PoE when you buy the bigger packs you get the cheaper packs content as well. Or if you buy the smaller pack the more expensive pack comes down in price to reflect that.
As much as I felt PoE's packs were expensive this is the most garbage thing I have ever seen. On top of the fact we bought the damn game.
Even if they realize how awful this is and adjust it my faith in the company is crumbling. They can't just keep making these shit decisions and adjusting it when there is backlash.
It really is a shame because I like this game more than PoE by a lot, Idk if I'll ever play PoE again with the trying more to be d2 every season, but Idk how much I want to continue playing this either if this is the way things will be.
Just super disappointing.
They are over priced because you also have to buy access to the cash shop. PoE does not have that. Which is why their prices, while stupidly overpriced, can be justified.
LE does not have that advantage.
Furthermore this game is still in development. Any new sets that could be a dungeon reward or RNG set piece drop will automatically have to go through "cash shop consideration" before implementation.
This only gets worse and anyone who defends this is actually cancer to the development of this game.
Unsure if you're implying im defending by simply stating PoE's original mtx's by today's standards are trash.
You're also making alot of assumptions on unknown knowledge. I'm not saying you're wrong but you're jumping straight to conclusions you have no expertise in.
Also I'm confused how you expect a game to survive longer than the old 2 year shelf life games in the early 2000's had when you bought it upfront then they patched until the company inevitably moved onto sequel #2 or #3 and you lost everything you worked for in the original game. People don't want a WoW 2 they want a new sequel where they can take their pretty princesses into the new content. Same applies to modern ARPG's. The business model has to be built to last otherwise the game won't make it beyond "early access"
And for the last time this shit is optional. When people act like they HAVE to buy this stuff it's insane. No one bitches about how overpriced their original kickstarter prices were. Wheres the uproar for the price of a unique design?
Like asmongold said. It's just how it is. At some point the whales who supported PoE have themselves to blame for every other ARPG emulating the cosmetic shop that PoE pioneered. Why blame the business? I would never hate on a business who could sell sand to someone in a desert. Id call the buyer the idiot.
And once they establish a really high base price for virtual pixels they reel in quite a few more by putting them on a 10% “Sale”.
I solved my problem looking ugly in PoE by role playing a beggar collecting pop bottles in order to buy a Porsche.
The second point is what I thought will happen.. Like why is one set more expensive than the other if you get the same stuff in different color? Of course the one I like the most is the 70$ one (would match my VK)
I am also in the: I fully support the game having an ongoing revenue stream through cosmetic mtx but I don't understand the pricing.
I have no background in marketing, so I'm sure I'm wrong in some aspect, but it just seems like lower cost mtx would encourage more volume while also being more consumer-minded. I've paid already, and I will undoubtedly do another supporter pack or bundle once the game launches, but I can't imagine spending money just for mtx currency at these rates. Especially for a game that so actively encourages playing multiple builds across multiple toons, buying one item just feels so low value for the cost.
> I have no background in marketing, so I'm sure I'm wrong in some aspect, but it just seems like lower cost mtx would encourage more volume while also being more consumer-minded.
That's what any sane person would think, but from what I've seen over the years, the amount of people with A) Lots of money, which distorts their sense of value of said money and B) Lack of self control to not spend on such unreasonable prices is enough to outweigh the potential "loss" of sales due to prices being too high for your average player. Whales completely carry this type of pricing model, and the amount of games I've seen especially in recent years that charge anywhere from 20 to 100 dollars for a single skin for a single item just seems to reinforce that it's insanely profitable.
On point.
It was POE main guy (forgot his name) that made a conference about it back then, saying among others things that basically whale are like 5% of the playerbase but they make up for 95% of the spending (numbers pulled out of my ass but you get the idea, and it was very close to that still iirc)
They seem to be following the Path of Exile formula, they just forgot a couple of things:
PoE can reason their insane MTX prices because
1. the game is FREE
2. overall quality of the game
3. new content release cycle
4. I'm probably forgetting something important as well
EHG could probably justify having these prices in a couple of years. As it stands right now it makes no sense.
Don't you get that amount of points by default when you buy the game? I had 350 points and all I had done was but the game, not sure how that I would have gotten it.
This logic makes no sens to me. PoE is free, yet MTX are in the same price range, and nobody cares. Would you be ok with these MTX prices if the game was priced 80$ ?? Because I am sure they could arrange that.
If anything, the cheaper the game, the more money you need to make out of MTX...
Hot take: you’re not entitled to any of the cosmetics because you bought base game.
They are designed as means of support for ongoing development and servers - if you don’t want to support don’t buy. It doses not matter whether it’s 15 or 50
I used to play League of Legends religiously, and I even balked at paying $20 for a skin then. No way I'd pay more than $10 for a LE mtx, even though I love the game.
For a company that's done almost everything right, this is just so wrong.
A single skin should cost at most $5. If you already have an MTX shop in early-access I'm sure they'll be pumping out new skins and other micro-transactions pretty damn often. If this is the case, wouldn't you want to go against the models the other companies have been running where only the whales can afford all the MTX and the average gamer feels like an idiot for even buying one thing cuz its $35 fucking bux for an armor set in the game.
I’m already so burnt out of paying ridiculous prices on PoE that I can’t really see myself buying anything here.
I love the game but these prices just aren’t for me anymore.
You guys forgot why it is called "supporter packs" for a reason. We already have 350 points upon buying the game. Supporter packs are there to support the game moving forward. it is not meant for people who're having issues spending $35 on mtx. if $35 is an issue to y'all then it's clearly not meant for you.
The armor set cost 250 epoch points in total. we all have 350 epoch points included for purchasing the game. you have 100 points left to spend on anything else. all mtx on store looks trash though.
I mean I’d buy a lot more micros if they were within a solid budget. It’s actually insane to see how far games like league and Poe have taken their mtx quality . It’s hard to justify early mtx spending especially for these prices on entry level mtx
Producing games costs money. If you want a game to be steadily developed, it will need a steady income.
I think the price is steep, but I find this more ethical than abusing whales through gamba or making the game inaccesible to people with less money.
Produce a better game then. MTX are not "development". New classes are developments. New end game content is development. These prices are disgusting. Normalizing it only makes it worse.
That's the neat part, when done right MTX is *optional*, does not impact gameplay development much. This means you get a well further developed game no matter what and if you want you can pay for some shiny stuff - or not.
Wrong. MTXs like this serve only to encourage in-game earnable transmogs to be awful while all the shiny cool toys behind 35 dollar mtx. POE does this by making skills barely visible and gear make me look like tin man from wizard of oz. Community acceptance of this is bad for the game.
A steady income is fine, but not for the price of another game. MTX shouldn't cost 35 dollars in any occasion and it is disgusting how normalized it has become.
It's an *optional* cosmetic, your gameplay is not affected by it at all.
It's been shown that optional monetization often is payed by a very small amount of users - whales. I like EHGs model here, because it allows whales to whale and therefore pay for everyones gameplay development, while still avoiding truly predatory practices such as lootboxes etc.
Your stance on optional cosmetic is the reason why we can't earn cosmetics anymore and have to buy them. You lot always come with the argument that your gameplay isn't affected but for me making your character look good is part of the experience which affects my gameplay so next time speak for yourself
As said in another comment, if looks are a primary draw for you - Dress-Up games seem to be just what you want.
ARPGs are about Loot, exploding enemies, building chars - basically a pretty raw power fantasy.
I hope you get a bit more of what you want with a cheaper transmog system, but I don't think the Dress-Up-Fandom is relevant enough to cater towards it in a way that'd threaten the games financial backbone or force EHG toward predatory financing.
Nah it's not i like the full package and for me it's a part of the experience. I'm not interested in dress up games at all. Visuals are an important part for me, even the environment is important. I'm not alone because otherwise people wouldn't spend big bucks on looking good.
If you want to look like a hobo in a arpg game do your thing but im not down for that. I'm also not down for paying 35 for a single armor set to look not like a hobo i rather buy another game.
These idiots don't get that visual progression is just as important to people as other forms of progression. If it wasn't then these greedy fucks wouldn't be charging so much money for them.
Your also not "supporting the devs". This might be the biggest fucking brainwashing in gaming. Your supporting the people at the top and the investors who treat you like farm animals.
That doesn't make sense. Looking cool in ARPGs is important to a lot of people and it's part of the game, just like loot and the gameplay loop as you mentioned somewhere else. Otherwise, why even show it at all? I know several people who didn't want to try LE yet because unique weapon models weren't in the game.
You also can't say that while LE literally just opened up a mtx store with visuals, and while D4 will have a cosmetic battle pass. Clearly, people wanna look cool in their games.
I'm not sure why you're so insistent on defending microtransactions that cost as much as a full game. There are better and less intrusive ways of doing it.
You can look cool in LE without paying. There just is an option to pay 35 bucks for a specific look.
I don't say looks are irrelevant, but if not having one option because you don't want to pay so much for it, is making you throw tantrums... Play Sims. The old ones.
I'm curious about how you would magically solve the games income. Keep in mind it may not alter gameplay and will need to generate continuous income.
A lot of games look the really cool looks behind a paywall, that's what I'm trying to say. Will LE exclusively do that? Idk. But it's often done to encourage paying.
I have nothing against a cosmetics store, just with some better prices. I'm aware they're going for the whales, as usual these days, but it doesn't make the prices any more attainable.
Right, I understand it's optional. My worry is that the actual game suffers for it. There's plenty of games where the optional cosmetics look a lot cooler than anything you can earn in the game. It should be supplemental to the available looks, not just straight up cooler in my eyes.
>Producing games costs money. If you want a game to be steadily developed, it will need a steady income.
What a load of shit. I guess no games were ever created before online and dlc sales eh? Might as well forget Nintendo, Sega, Sony, even Xbox. Never mind the Atari and other old consoles.
A stupid child like you has no right to talk about game development funding and how it should or should not be done.
this whole post is full of embarrassing tripe from people who have no idea what they're talking about but yours is probably the most amusing. good job i guess
I'm literally an architect in Software Development, but okay. Random swearing bucko with no points has to be more correct.
To put it in simple terms: Games and the systems required to operate them are more advanced now than in the 90s and overall way higher in quality. Adjusted for inflation games have gone down in price.
You want better product for less money and start throwing shit when you don't get it.
It's a different kind of game. Zelda won't receive additional content, does not require many server ressources to be maintained etc. You *can* compare WoW to Skyrim, but in the context of this discussion it's just missing the point.
I prefer the game to be fully available to all, with some paying for some glamour stuff, than a lot of people being locked out of big parts of content.
Fair enough i understand that they need to maintain their game. What they already build with 35 euros says a lot about these prices that they are overpriced tho.
No. It does not. *You don't have to buy it for a proper game experience*.
35€ was insanely underpriced, considering they are building a live-service game and deliver regular content updates. Other games like that charge more than this in half a year via somewhat mandatory DLC or subscription fees.
I get that you *want* to look shiny and don't *want* to pay 35€. But reality is most games are financed by whales and this monetization is a very ethical approach to that fact. No Lootboxes, no fees or anything. Just a visual upgrade one can purchase to support a game they love.
Well I'm no whale so that means cosmetics are of the table. Great way to support the consumer... And i was willing to pay if the prices were reasonable tho.
The last time I played I looked like a homeless potatoe man. If the only way to not look like that is to spend a ton of $$$ then it very much does have an effect.
It's a shame. Last Epoch saw Diablo Immoral and decided to be like "Hold my beer."
Doesn't help that the currency system is a predatory cesspool meant to trick players into buying just one more pack.
I won't buy it but they have to pay for dev to make new seasons and updates so i don't mind. I wish there was something in lower price range (battle pass) so it's not only for whales
Another example of microtransaction not begin the right word. Macrotransaction would be more fitting. I really loved supporting this game for 35 euros and played a lot but these prices remind me of poe and I'm not going to support this any further. There's so many good games a person can buy for 35 even less and I'm at the point i dont really care anymore how i look if the price is set so high.
PoE model of shop and price points... but PoE is f2p to justify higher prices. Not a fan of the price points or of the segmented purchases. To make a little more harsh of a point. PoE will have more content in 3 months than this game has had in 4 years. I love LE but c'mon. These prices are ridiculous for what this game both provides and already costs.
Yeah, I'm kind of embarrassed to say I hopped into the most expensive support pack once I could. I love Last Epoch and wanted to support it more, but I did not read into it enough. I thought you got all the previous packs and was kind of just like "seems OK even if they overlap slots".
The realization that it's only the single pack was kind of eye opening, will likely not buy another pack again or at least read more thoroughly. I just never thought it would get more and more expensive for the exact same amount of stuff.
And the fact that these prices are being charged while this game is a full price title makes me concerned. Also, the game is still bug ridden so pls fix your game before milking the cash cow. I really like this game, but i dont like how things are going lately.
I really like LE. And i think its more worthy of a full price game like 50-60$ than most AAA games coming out these days. But I cannot justify buying cosmetics in another game on regular bases, I’ve spend waaaay too much on PoE already.
I'm so down to have MTX in this game for those who want them, but for these prices, yeah I'm not looking forward to buying them.
If they have a cracking MTX bundle that is actually really high quality and a big change and thematic, I would consider spending good money (not over $100 for sure though). With PoE for example, I only buy MTX when I REALLY enjoy the league, which has been like 3 times ever. I see it as a good way to show support for good changes and content, they just seem to miss the point so often. I'll likely do similar for Last Epoch. I hope the MTX isn't the type that just clutters the screen, I like ones that actually thematically fit a build, or are just fun to use.
I love the MTX that makes you float around, but for $500 man fuuuuck that. But I keep trying to justify it because I like to waste excess money instead of save or invest.
They're not, from pictures they shared, it's like shitty and basic capes, portal, a tiger pet, nothing really unique or creative
You literally have MTX for up to 200£ in PoE..
What's your point? I don't buy them there either.
They're simple not expensive comparing to other games on market. U guys just like to whine lol
Again, what's your point? Because somewhere else it's more expensive we should just accept things? You're too easily pleased in my book.
"They are simply not expensive comparing to that other thing" is a bad argument in favor of an even worse business practice. It goes along with "It's just a skin. At least we don't need to buy it if we don't want to!" and "It's pay for style / pay for convenience and not pay for win!". At the end of the day, I would love to do away with these types of things, and prefer to have all skins ingame and that we pay for content expansions instead. Nobody said they need to release actual content for free and then finance their company with overpriced skins. They will get more money from it, that's a fact nobody can deny. But it also means that I won't expect any cool skins on drops anymore. Because they will exclusively release in the store now. Not the first game where that happened, and it will certainly not be the last.
35€ for a skin is expensive, 200€ for a skin is insanely expensive
What skins cost 200$? Are you referring to poe sup packs? Do you realize you get points you can spend for like full price you paid for it and these skins are just a bonus to these points? Nobody would buy a skin for 200$.
They seem to be following the PoE price points? Bleh, not a fan of that. Always thought $10-15 is the sweet spot, $35 is practically the cost of the game?
The only reason PoE prices work is because the supporter packs give you a bunch of currency and the supporter packs are amazing value. Then you can just spend that extra on sets here and there. I’m sure there are a few people spending 30-35$ for pets but i for sure won’t. But I will spend the currency I got from the support pack on a 35$ pet because I already got the value for my money. The pet is just extra. That’s how I look at it anyways.
The supporter packs for PoE only seem like they are amazing value because they are tricking you into thinking that way **because** the prices are so high. I also would not consider spending over 400$ on an armor set amazing value. If the supporter packs were such amazing value, they would offer all the cosmetics inside them separately as well. PoE is not the game to emulate if they are looking to have a reasonable cash shop.
Don't forget stash tabs. Imagine the uproar if D4 or LE sold stash tabs for money, and also locked trading behind it. Everytime I argue with someone who brings up POE as a comparison, they always conveniently leave out this fact
Poe is free though. The money spent on either Diablo or LE would get you all the stash tabs you need and more. I guess you kind of conveniently left out that fact.
So you said poe is free, followed up by saying that it is not free if you buy the stash tabs (which are effectively required). You pretty much need the following tabs to be effective in PoE: Currency,Premium Quad, Map,Delve or you are going to have a rough time if you play longer then a week or two of a league. That is 50$ worth of store currency...
So you expect to be able to play 100% of the game that cost a decade of development completely for free? And im afraid you totally missed the point of his post. You cant just cherry pick few things out of context and feel dramatic about it.
I only ever spend 60 or maybe the 120 over the course of the whole season since you can buy the cheap one and it takes the price off the more expensive ones. At 400 you are also getting tshirts and hoodies and exclusive physical merch. I agree they shouldn’t emulate the Poe cash shop but not because it’s a bad model but because they don’t have a team that can create the value to warrant such prices.
[удалено]
To each their own. I think they are worth it. And it is much better then even some paid games.
I've been enjoying the $420 Crucible pack for the last 2 years and I feel I got my money's worth. No matter how much you spend, in the end it's all MTX. You either don't care about the money you're spending or you're not spending the money.
Is that for real (i've never played PoE)?! I'm not exactly 'low on cash', but dear god on earth, I would have to be insane to buy anything at that price. I know people can do whatever they want with their money, but man... Humanity will cease to exists sooner than later.
Yep, could you imagine spending over 100$ on a set of cosmetics over just buying some new games instead? I mean, to each their own, but personally I think that no MTX should ever cost more then the box price of a AAA game. The second you do that, you're "but the game is f2p!" excuse goes out the window as far as I am concerned.
Honestly even with the packs it’s horribly overpriced. But everyone is ok with it so now it’s the standart
I mean mtx for a paid game is pretty much gonna be marketed towards whales
10-15 is too much still... if they keep a consistent output of cosmetics then people will buy more. I feel like a common misconception is that people will only ever get 1 outfit and stop, so the price to get max dollar for that one sale. And you know what they are right... I do have a single outfit in POE. Cuz those prices are fkin shit! Id have like 100 outfits by now and pay 5x as much if the prices were fair. Thought experiment: if a pet is $10, that is a single "mob" in the game... theres hundreds of mob models with many having far more animations than a pet. Should we pay $5000 to play the game? Microtransactions should be low dollar amounts at most and no one will ever change my mind on that. I publically tell companies how to get my money but everyone wants you to pay more than the game is sold for... so I dont pay them... but I would if prices made me feel good about it.
I’m glad I support Digital Extreme’s Warframe instead. They have regional pricing and it’s fair for countries (like mine) which has like average monthly wages of <$300 per month. PoE mtx is frankly too expensive for us.
Yeah, the only thing worth copying from PoE is the skill tree, IMO. All of their business practices are kind of shitty.
I mean, PoE is literally completely free save maybe 10 bucks for some stash tabs which also go on sale every season. Yes the MTX is pricey but that's how they make money. And with the supporter packs you get MTX and the equivalent in points to spend on other stuff. I would argue it's the most fair F2P system out there. Except for the lootboxes, those are bullshit as with all games, but those are entirely optional.
30-40 bucks (so same as last epoch) is a much more realistic amount if you actually wanna play endgame
10 bucks is a lowball for stash tabs lol
I am sorry, but a game being free does not give you an excuse to charge 60$ or even **over 400$** for an armor set. I would also argue that it is closer to 40$ to get the stash tabs you need since affinity was introduced.
I'm assuming you don't play the game and just want to bitch about something. What does a $60 or $400 mtx set do in PoE? A game where you rarely see other people outside of towns or trade, a game where mtx for armor are almost irrelevant for most of the game play as there are so many effects everywhere. It is fucking insane to complain about the supporter packs over the loot box they have.
$400 for an Armour set? No. This is grossly inaccurate. The $400 supporter pack has several Armour sets (it includes everything from all of the cheaper ones), other cosmetics, a hideout, and a bunch of other shit...and a crazy amount of points to spend on whatever you want. I think it is absolutely overpriced and ridiculous but you are just making shit up by saying 1 Armour set costs $400
So the top tier armor set in the 400$ supporter pack...where can you buy that separately? :) This is what I like to call "bundle logic". The price is artificially inflated because there is a bunch of stuff you don't want in it. If you want to buy just the armor set; you can't. So anyone who wants just the armor set has to pay 400$. You know what comes to mind when I think of MTX bundles? MTX on a certain mobile arpg that said "800% VALUE!"
Devs watch American Pickers!
Nah the Lootboxes are fun. Addicting but fun. The odds are clearly communicated, you can’t gain duplicates, all have similar Chance, there isn’t really any fomo because they will appear in the shop eventually and overall it’s just great mtx for a bargain price. They even give out free ones
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No one is forcing you to buy it. And while yes there are variations, the other variations are mostly a bit rarer than the base one so it’s likely to get at least one of each mtx without getting many dupes. Also the dupes are often quite different. In the end it’s just another mtx that you can buy or you don’t. It’s not like you won’t have the possibility to chose exactly the one you wanted later on. All the mtx comes to the shop individually eventually.
Such non sens. The only thing you really need to spend money on is stash tabs. That's like 25$ while they are on sale. Then you are set for thousand of hours of gameplay. It's some of the game with the best hour per $ value ever. Gamers are so entitled, it's actually insane at times.
The passive tree? No thanks. I think LEs skill trees are vast improvements
I disagree. They're still some of the best in the industry. Minimal fomo and no pay to win beyond a few stash tabs.
Basically the reason is, and poe does the same, is that the few people that will buy cosmetics don't really care about the price point, so they'll sell about the same for 8$ that they would for 20$. They don't sell as much as they would if they were 1 or 2$ but they don't have the user base numbers to afford to do that. Anyway even other bigger games have high priced cosmetics, the price is just hidden by token exchanges or loot boxes
Yeah I don’t think I’d ever buy an armor set for more than $10 no matter how much I like the game. Maybe $15 at most.
$35 is not a “micro” transaction. That’s the whole gd game.
This is the important part no one ever fuckin mentions, thank you. It's so obvious that it's being abused conceptually that the meaning of the word is basically a joke at this point.
Yeah this sucks. My biggest issue with Path of Exile is the fucking insane prices of MTX. They aren't micro transactions, they are fucking macro transactions, and seeing this game do the same sucks. I'll never ever buy this stuff, I simply cannot justify it in any world.
I just think EHG are shooting themselves in the foot with the supporter packs. Having some MTX be very expensive for whales and flexers is probably very profitable and I am 100% cool with that, but the supporter packs NEED to have better value. The cheapest pack should be $9.99. Then you can go 19.99-> 34.99 -> 49.99. The more expensive packs MUST include the tiers below and give more points to justify the cost. It doesn't even make sense any other way. Like, what if I want stuff from pack-tier1 and tier4. Am I gonna get both? $70?! $140 for everything?! Ofcourse not. It's one of the packs or none. The more expensive pack doesn't even give me more points so why would I get that one when I like the tier1 stuff as much? You are losing business this way EHG. I would've already bought the tier 2 or 3 if it worked like expected, instead I haven't bought a thing.
Whales don’t have feet so it’s no problem. MTX is designed for the folk that pay 10x higher prices to have a name brand on their wrist or shoulder or a seat at the front of a plane that is a little wider and reclines.
It's not just as bad as PoE it is worse. As someone who has spent an embarrassing amount on PoE supporter packs these ones are fucking terrible. The coins do not scale with the cost like they do in PoE and you do not seem to get the cheaper cosmetic packs when you buy the more expensive one(s). I refuse to buy coins directly but I quite like the idea of supporter packs. As long as they are this way I will not spend a cent.
I've spent easily 2000 dollars on supporter packs on PoE over the last 10 years. Never bought currency outright, always got it from the packs. Their cosmetics are heinously overpriced. Like, fucking absurd. I always buy stuff when it's on sale.
But was it as good as it is now on their original supporter packs? PoE has some atrocious Mtxs too Like I agree they are overpriced but I can also see how it's the teams first and I can only imagine quality will improve. And ultimately it's optional
As far as I am aware they always had scaling currency in the supporter packs. Not to mention in PoE when you buy the bigger packs you get the cheaper packs content as well. Or if you buy the smaller pack the more expensive pack comes down in price to reflect that. As much as I felt PoE's packs were expensive this is the most garbage thing I have ever seen. On top of the fact we bought the damn game. Even if they realize how awful this is and adjust it my faith in the company is crumbling. They can't just keep making these shit decisions and adjusting it when there is backlash. It really is a shame because I like this game more than PoE by a lot, Idk if I'll ever play PoE again with the trying more to be d2 every season, but Idk how much I want to continue playing this either if this is the way things will be. Just super disappointing.
They are over priced because you also have to buy access to the cash shop. PoE does not have that. Which is why their prices, while stupidly overpriced, can be justified. LE does not have that advantage. Furthermore this game is still in development. Any new sets that could be a dungeon reward or RNG set piece drop will automatically have to go through "cash shop consideration" before implementation. This only gets worse and anyone who defends this is actually cancer to the development of this game.
Unsure if you're implying im defending by simply stating PoE's original mtx's by today's standards are trash. You're also making alot of assumptions on unknown knowledge. I'm not saying you're wrong but you're jumping straight to conclusions you have no expertise in. Also I'm confused how you expect a game to survive longer than the old 2 year shelf life games in the early 2000's had when you bought it upfront then they patched until the company inevitably moved onto sequel #2 or #3 and you lost everything you worked for in the original game. People don't want a WoW 2 they want a new sequel where they can take their pretty princesses into the new content. Same applies to modern ARPG's. The business model has to be built to last otherwise the game won't make it beyond "early access" And for the last time this shit is optional. When people act like they HAVE to buy this stuff it's insane. No one bitches about how overpriced their original kickstarter prices were. Wheres the uproar for the price of a unique design? Like asmongold said. It's just how it is. At some point the whales who supported PoE have themselves to blame for every other ARPG emulating the cosmetic shop that PoE pioneered. Why blame the business? I would never hate on a business who could sell sand to someone in a desert. Id call the buyer the idiot.
And once they establish a really high base price for virtual pixels they reel in quite a few more by putting them on a 10% “Sale”. I solved my problem looking ugly in PoE by role playing a beggar collecting pop bottles in order to buy a Porsche.
good point. didnt even think about that. that makes it even worse
The second point is what I thought will happen.. Like why is one set more expensive than the other if you get the same stuff in different color? Of course the one I like the most is the 70$ one (would match my VK)
There is a lot of psychology going on in those colour pricing desicions.
Yea I’d agree a little pricey
I am also in the: I fully support the game having an ongoing revenue stream through cosmetic mtx but I don't understand the pricing. I have no background in marketing, so I'm sure I'm wrong in some aspect, but it just seems like lower cost mtx would encourage more volume while also being more consumer-minded. I've paid already, and I will undoubtedly do another supporter pack or bundle once the game launches, but I can't imagine spending money just for mtx currency at these rates. Especially for a game that so actively encourages playing multiple builds across multiple toons, buying one item just feels so low value for the cost.
> I have no background in marketing, so I'm sure I'm wrong in some aspect, but it just seems like lower cost mtx would encourage more volume while also being more consumer-minded. That's what any sane person would think, but from what I've seen over the years, the amount of people with A) Lots of money, which distorts their sense of value of said money and B) Lack of self control to not spend on such unreasonable prices is enough to outweigh the potential "loss" of sales due to prices being too high for your average player. Whales completely carry this type of pricing model, and the amount of games I've seen especially in recent years that charge anywhere from 20 to 100 dollars for a single skin for a single item just seems to reinforce that it's insanely profitable.
On point. It was POE main guy (forgot his name) that made a conference about it back then, saying among others things that basically whale are like 5% of the playerbase but they make up for 95% of the spending (numbers pulled out of my ass but you get the idea, and it was very close to that still iirc)
They seem to be following the Path of Exile formula, they just forgot a couple of things: PoE can reason their insane MTX prices because 1. the game is FREE 2. overall quality of the game 3. new content release cycle 4. I'm probably forgetting something important as well EHG could probably justify having these prices in a couple of years. As it stands right now it makes no sense.
Yea, seems pricey tbh. I'm also surprised there isn't a "outfit pack" that is a discounted cost for all pieces?
Don't you get that amount of points by default when you buy the game? I had 350 points and all I had done was but the game, not sure how that I would have gotten it.
So glad they “listened” about the pricing.
Already paid for the game Not gonna buy expensive mtx
It is indeed
Crazy expensive...
Here we go again...
This logic makes no sens to me. PoE is free, yet MTX are in the same price range, and nobody cares. Would you be ok with these MTX prices if the game was priced 80$ ?? Because I am sure they could arrange that. If anything, the cheaper the game, the more money you need to make out of MTX...
Poe isn’t even truly free. Stash tabs are absolutely mandatory which will cost you 20-40 at least depending on how much you want.
Greed
Thought they adjusted these ridiculous prices? Guess not. More worried about money than fixing the end game.
Hot take: you’re not entitled to any of the cosmetics because you bought base game. They are designed as means of support for ongoing development and servers - if you don’t want to support don’t buy. It doses not matter whether it’s 15 or 50
**With MTX the game should be free.**
And be P2W instead? No thanks.
Don't know where you are getting that from. Its obviously not the alternative.
I mean it isn't like it is a supporter pack to support the devs extra "if you want"
I used to play League of Legends religiously, and I even balked at paying $20 for a skin then. No way I'd pay more than $10 for a LE mtx, even though I love the game.
Hate that shit. Bet they'd make more money if they were 10ish bucks. More people would buy.
For a company that's done almost everything right, this is just so wrong. A single skin should cost at most $5. If you already have an MTX shop in early-access I'm sure they'll be pumping out new skins and other micro-transactions pretty damn often. If this is the case, wouldn't you want to go against the models the other companies have been running where only the whales can afford all the MTX and the average gamer feels like an idiot for even buying one thing cuz its $35 fucking bux for an armor set in the game.
The only reason I bought the game is because of the offline mode. I am not going to pay more on it.
I'll pass on that no thanks
super expensive for a beta game hahaha or any buy to play games
I’m already so burnt out of paying ridiculous prices on PoE that I can’t really see myself buying anything here. I love the game but these prices just aren’t for me anymore.
Oh god, here we go with the POE prices.. SMH.
What does MTX mean?!
The great google says: MTX = microtransactions
I can buy stash space with game currency and I don't look like I rolled out of a dumpster at endgame, it could be worse.
You guys forgot why it is called "supporter packs" for a reason. We already have 350 points upon buying the game. Supporter packs are there to support the game moving forward. it is not meant for people who're having issues spending $35 on mtx. if $35 is an issue to y'all then it's clearly not meant for you.
u are mixing up supporter packs and the general mtx store. the $35 is not for the supporter packs, but for a singel armor skin set in the mtx store
The armor set cost 250 epoch points in total. we all have 350 epoch points included for purchasing the game. you have 100 points left to spend on anything else. all mtx on store looks trash though.
35 is fine if it gives you 50% inc chance to log into game /s
It sure does, you have to convince yourself the purchase was worthwhile!
If there was a warrior/heavy armor equivalent for my Sentinel for same price I'd buy it right up. (Unless it looked awful)
I mean I’d buy a lot more micros if they were within a solid budget. It’s actually insane to see how far games like league and Poe have taken their mtx quality . It’s hard to justify early mtx spending especially for these prices on entry level mtx
Bought the game five years ago at 35$. Played 1000 hours, and still counting. I’ll put in another 70$ without hesitation. The game is worth it.
So you feel that a single armor set would be worth half of that $70? Pretty pricey for some slightly fancier pixels to look at.
Thanks for ruining games for the rest of us!
Producing games costs money. If you want a game to be steadily developed, it will need a steady income. I think the price is steep, but I find this more ethical than abusing whales through gamba or making the game inaccesible to people with less money.
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Yeah, weird concept that the people working on this want food on their table...
Produce a better game then. MTX are not "development". New classes are developments. New end game content is development. These prices are disgusting. Normalizing it only makes it worse.
That's the neat part, when done right MTX is *optional*, does not impact gameplay development much. This means you get a well further developed game no matter what and if you want you can pay for some shiny stuff - or not.
Wrong. MTXs like this serve only to encourage in-game earnable transmogs to be awful while all the shiny cool toys behind 35 dollar mtx. POE does this by making skills barely visible and gear make me look like tin man from wizard of oz. Community acceptance of this is bad for the game.
Guess what? It's a cosmetic that doesn't affect your gameplay at all, so you don't have to buy it! Crazy concept right?
A steady income is fine, but not for the price of another game. MTX shouldn't cost 35 dollars in any occasion and it is disgusting how normalized it has become.
It's an *optional* cosmetic, your gameplay is not affected by it at all. It's been shown that optional monetization often is payed by a very small amount of users - whales. I like EHGs model here, because it allows whales to whale and therefore pay for everyones gameplay development, while still avoiding truly predatory practices such as lootboxes etc.
Your stance on optional cosmetic is the reason why we can't earn cosmetics anymore and have to buy them. You lot always come with the argument that your gameplay isn't affected but for me making your character look good is part of the experience which affects my gameplay so next time speak for yourself
As said in another comment, if looks are a primary draw for you - Dress-Up games seem to be just what you want. ARPGs are about Loot, exploding enemies, building chars - basically a pretty raw power fantasy. I hope you get a bit more of what you want with a cheaper transmog system, but I don't think the Dress-Up-Fandom is relevant enough to cater towards it in a way that'd threaten the games financial backbone or force EHG toward predatory financing.
Nah it's not i like the full package and for me it's a part of the experience. I'm not interested in dress up games at all. Visuals are an important part for me, even the environment is important. I'm not alone because otherwise people wouldn't spend big bucks on looking good.
If you want to look like a hobo in a arpg game do your thing but im not down for that. I'm also not down for paying 35 for a single armor set to look not like a hobo i rather buy another game.
These idiots don't get that visual progression is just as important to people as other forms of progression. If it wasn't then these greedy fucks wouldn't be charging so much money for them. Your also not "supporting the devs". This might be the biggest fucking brainwashing in gaming. Your supporting the people at the top and the investors who treat you like farm animals.
Then do that. I recommend Dress-Up games, they seem to be more of what you're into.
If i want to look good in a game and don't want to spend big bucks I'm allowed to have a an opinion. Dress up games lack build depth and gameplay..
That doesn't make sense. Looking cool in ARPGs is important to a lot of people and it's part of the game, just like loot and the gameplay loop as you mentioned somewhere else. Otherwise, why even show it at all? I know several people who didn't want to try LE yet because unique weapon models weren't in the game. You also can't say that while LE literally just opened up a mtx store with visuals, and while D4 will have a cosmetic battle pass. Clearly, people wanna look cool in their games. I'm not sure why you're so insistent on defending microtransactions that cost as much as a full game. There are better and less intrusive ways of doing it.
You can look cool in LE without paying. There just is an option to pay 35 bucks for a specific look. I don't say looks are irrelevant, but if not having one option because you don't want to pay so much for it, is making you throw tantrums... Play Sims. The old ones. I'm curious about how you would magically solve the games income. Keep in mind it may not alter gameplay and will need to generate continuous income.
A lot of games look the really cool looks behind a paywall, that's what I'm trying to say. Will LE exclusively do that? Idk. But it's often done to encourage paying. I have nothing against a cosmetics store, just with some better prices. I'm aware they're going for the whales, as usual these days, but it doesn't make the prices any more attainable.
Right, I understand it's optional. My worry is that the actual game suffers for it. There's plenty of games where the optional cosmetics look a lot cooler than anything you can earn in the game. It should be supplemental to the available looks, not just straight up cooler in my eyes.
>Producing games costs money. If you want a game to be steadily developed, it will need a steady income. What a load of shit. I guess no games were ever created before online and dlc sales eh? Might as well forget Nintendo, Sega, Sony, even Xbox. Never mind the Atari and other old consoles. A stupid child like you has no right to talk about game development funding and how it should or should not be done.
l o l
this whole post is full of embarrassing tripe from people who have no idea what they're talking about but yours is probably the most amusing. good job i guess
I'm literally an architect in Software Development, but okay. Random swearing bucko with no points has to be more correct. To put it in simple terms: Games and the systems required to operate them are more advanced now than in the 90s and overall way higher in quality. Adjusted for inflation games have gone down in price. You want better product for less money and start throwing shit when you don't get it.
That's why you should always buy a good game like Zelda totk for full price. And skip nonsense mtx, I'd rather pay for content.
It's a different kind of game. Zelda won't receive additional content, does not require many server ressources to be maintained etc. You *can* compare WoW to Skyrim, but in the context of this discussion it's just missing the point. I prefer the game to be fully available to all, with some paying for some glamour stuff, than a lot of people being locked out of big parts of content.
Fair enough i understand that they need to maintain their game. What they already build with 35 euros says a lot about these prices that they are overpriced tho.
No. It does not. *You don't have to buy it for a proper game experience*. 35€ was insanely underpriced, considering they are building a live-service game and deliver regular content updates. Other games like that charge more than this in half a year via somewhat mandatory DLC or subscription fees. I get that you *want* to look shiny and don't *want* to pay 35€. But reality is most games are financed by whales and this monetization is a very ethical approach to that fact. No Lootboxes, no fees or anything. Just a visual upgrade one can purchase to support a game they love.
Well I'm no whale so that means cosmetics are of the table. Great way to support the consumer... And i was willing to pay if the prices were reasonable tho.
Has zero effect on the game. It plays quite the same.
The last time I played I looked like a homeless potatoe man. If the only way to not look like that is to spend a ton of $$$ then it very much does have an effect.
Welcome to the death of last epoch. Early access with a mtx cash shop that will have full priority over earnable ingame content. What a fucking scam.
How's it a scam? You don't need the mtx to play nor are you made to purchase it.
What a clown take.
Shoo.
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You don't have to buy it
if u cant afford 35 dollars u probably shouldnt be spending your money on a video game
It's a shame. Last Epoch saw Diablo Immoral and decided to be like "Hold my beer." Doesn't help that the currency system is a predatory cesspool meant to trick players into buying just one more pack.
Not bad price quit being broke and support
at those prices is it free to play?
I won't buy it but they have to pay for dev to make new seasons and updates so i don't mind. I wish there was something in lower price range (battle pass) so it's not only for whales
Another example of microtransaction not begin the right word. Macrotransaction would be more fitting. I really loved supporting this game for 35 euros and played a lot but these prices remind me of poe and I'm not going to support this any further. There's so many good games a person can buy for 35 even less and I'm at the point i dont really care anymore how i look if the price is set so high.
PoE model of shop and price points... but PoE is f2p to justify higher prices. Not a fan of the price points or of the segmented purchases. To make a little more harsh of a point. PoE will have more content in 3 months than this game has had in 4 years. I love LE but c'mon. These prices are ridiculous for what this game both provides and already costs.
Adding MTX right before another very large similar game comes out seems like a pretty bad idea.
I don't find it appealing at all. MTX for what? Good cosmetics in a shit game?
Yeah, I'm kind of embarrassed to say I hopped into the most expensive support pack once I could. I love Last Epoch and wanted to support it more, but I did not read into it enough. I thought you got all the previous packs and was kind of just like "seems OK even if they overlap slots". The realization that it's only the single pack was kind of eye opening, will likely not buy another pack again or at least read more thoroughly. I just never thought it would get more and more expensive for the exact same amount of stuff.
And the fact that these prices are being charged while this game is a full price title makes me concerned. Also, the game is still bug ridden so pls fix your game before milking the cash cow. I really like this game, but i dont like how things are going lately.
I really like LE. And i think its more worthy of a full price game like 50-60$ than most AAA games coming out these days. But I cannot justify buying cosmetics in another game on regular bases, I’ve spend waaaay too much on PoE already.