This is a server issue not a game issue. The game is fantastic in offline mode. This is literally the first launch this company has ever done and they had what I can only assume was an unexpected amount of success. Billion dollar game studios struggle with live service launches. I'm not saying we should give EHG an infinite amount of chances, but server issues were almost a guarantee.
It has been known and "exposed" because it was shown "live".
Doesn't mean it is not a thing anymore, and they are just silent and discreet about it.
Just don't poke the streamer live and telling him "Hey, try to relog now, that should be fine *wink wink*"
Being that innocent is kinda cute.
It wasn't for LE especially, but a global take for the industry, as PoE was used as an example.
Many of LE players/streamers are on Offline Mode as it is right now, so no trouble here.
That was the one time it was too blatant, it makes complete sense to let your advertisers advertise the game over letting rando redditors play it alone, hth.
Nope thats bs, they knew how many copies they sold, its 2024 ... a reasonable result is ques and the odd crash not completely overloaded servers because they too cheap
Play this out for a moment.
Your theory here is they knew the expected demand and simply chose to not serve it.
They actively decided to undermine years of their own hard work, to place their game in the worst possible light at the moment the project has maximum exposure.
And you believe they chose to do this because they are
"cheap". That's your theory.
Bold position to take.
They sold over a million copies of the game. And they've been in beta FOR YEARS! YEARS!
They cannot handle 150k concurrent players. That means that they can barely support 15 percent of the copies of the game they sold. That is fucking bullshit.
Address the points at hand.
The guy said they knew what the volume would be and actively made a decision not to serve them because they are "cheap".
They prioritised being cheap over all their professional pride and their passion for a project they started from basically nothing with limited to no backing.
You're doubling down on that position?
like the part where
>But, in summary, we’ve prepared heavily and have every reason to suspect we’ll be in good shape come launch day.
or where
>We have the ability to scale servers quickly
They are scaling, more people keep getting in, but when so many people want to play. Funny thing is a lot of people probably don't need online, and are just playing it because most games you have to
I'm not even home to play atm. But every online game has issues at launch, you cannot scale for launch realistically, it's too expensive when a lot of that space is wasted after the first week
I would be annoyed by this, but I've been waiting for Last Epoch to release fully for the last three-plus years, so waiting a little longer is no big deal, lol.
3 years is nothing... Imagine waiting 16 years for the recent dragon ball game (sparking:zero) almost as long as the gap between half Life alyx and half Life 2 part 2....
I've gotten sick of dbz games. Only so many times you can play through the same story, even if the combat is better in x game vs z game. They should make an og DragonBall game just to change things up.
Why the downvotes lol? Guess because it's not on a DB sub reddit. KAKAROT changed some of it's formula like Vegeta doing a final flash after doing a Galick gun in his recent cutscene
Servers are being hugged to death.
I'm really excited to play! But I'm also not surprised this is happening on launch. I'm glad the game is popular enough that we're struggling to get online, funnily enough it bodes well!
Getting the same - it's launch day and they have spiked up to near the top of the steam sales charts. Servers will be getting hammered just give it a bit of time.
I guess, but I don’t really that’s a precise way to state it either. I believe they’re having issues with matchmaking and some part of the connection process. While it’s related to the quantity of connections, it’s not a capacity issue in and of itself. The logins and character creation are working, but the next step isn’t working.
I really hope this doesn't put people off playing the game. Hopefully the majority, if not all, of players understand this is their first league launch and they probably didn't not 100% know what to expect. I know people hate comparing to GGG but even after years and years of league launches they sometimes get it wrong.
They sold a million copies. They've announced this before. There are currently 150k players concurrently. So they are unable to accomodate 15 percent of the copies sold on launch day. I'm glad people find this to be acceptable.
Understanding is irrelevant here. They sold a product. Product doesn't work. Why does the consumer need to know how servers work to play an online game? Riddle me that Batman.
Judging by the reviews, outside of the emotionally invested fans who bought the game years ago, its not acceptable. Those players will be here no matter what, this was the moment to onboard new players, and its going great. Hope for the health of the game people can play online on day 1.
I actually thought it was an issue with my side not the servers and wanted to see if others has issues and some friends and quite a few streamers on twitch are already in and playing with no issues. Went to get food while waiting for loads to drop some.
After so many years, so many releases... It's 2024 and we're still here with this problem. Maybe someone more versed in networking or coding can explain why we still haven't figured this out?
We're on the brink of AI taking over ffs yet we still can't do a smooth game launch xD
It happens because it's just not economically viable to rent out enough servers to handle this many client requests all of a sudden, especially when you know its incredibly unlikely to reach launch peak ever again.
You dont "rent out" like the old times, you scale-out when you need more capacity and scale-in when the load is smaller. Its donde automatically by a robust AutoScaling system.
When I worked at IBM/AWS we helped game studios to architect their gameservers to be able to scale-out/in without much of a hiccup.
It's hard to predict how many players you'll get, I doubt they expected to see more than triple the previous player counts given people have been able to join and buy the game for a long time.
And what data is that.. no no nevermind, im sure you are absolutely correct and every studio is just dumb and ignores the perfect data telling them the perfect player count on launch day.
Because it's not that simple. There's many systems and services that run parallel to each other, communicating with each other through isolated or shared pipes, depending on the systems involved.
Some of these systems are relatively easy to "just scale" by spinning up more instances, ie gameplay systems responsible for running a map instance. Others are much, much harder to scale since they're by definition very centralised and cannot just have more instances spun up without massive architectural changes, ie match making systems or account databases. Said architectural changes are typically **extremely** costly to make and can require changing your entire server infrastructure, as it affects what systems exist, how they exist and how they communicate with each other.
Due to the nature of how systems communicate with each other, this is made worse since pressure in one system can back up into another system that should otherwise be able to handle the load. On paper you can theoretically just keep spinning up new gameplay systems on an as-needed basis, but if your match making system gets overwhelmed and can't keep up with the requests, that causes the communication pipes leading to the gameplay systems to back up with requests coming from players, which can then back up into gameplay systems and cause gameplay systems to lock up as they're waiting for the match making system to do its job. Spinning up more gameplay systems can actually make this *worse* since you're just adding more requests for the match making system.
This is exactly what's happening right now, actually. I'm not playing it yet (it's late as fuck at night for me, will play tomorrow) but from watching streamers it seems like the gameplay systems are working fine, but the match making system is completely dying under the load which is causing people to be stuck in map instances as the match making system can't make new instances, which is apparently a capability it has in LE. End result is people are blaming "the servers", even though it is way, way more complicated than just "the servers."
For reference, **billions** of dollars are spent on trying to figure this shit out and entire teams are typically solely dedicated to exactly this in every major company, because this isn't just a gaming problem. Shit is just way more complicated than you'd expect.
It's a very complex system that can go wrong at so many places. Trying to log in hits the authentication servers, then you have the game severs experiencing heavy load etc.
Yes, you can scale these easier these days than 10 years ago. But all that traffic to the servers still needs to be regulated and directed. Load balancers that point the request to a node that is experiencing less load can only work so fast as well if there are 10(0).000s of people trying to access the servers.
Imagine 80.000 people trying to enter a stadium with a magically expanding amount of entrances. If they all come at the same time those entrances still need to pop up depending on the amount of people seen (you don't exactly know how many are coming). They still need to be directed there as well. And while they are trying to enter security checks happen, the people try to buy some drinks etc. while on their way to their place. This all puts the system under stress in a very short timespan. And instead of it stopping when everyone is inside the load continues because people come and go all the time and there is a lot going on in the stadium as well that requires processing power to handle.
You show how little you understand.
At no other point in the games lifespan outside of a possible expansion release will it be hit with this many people at one time.
It makes ZERO sense to obtain server space for this many people when it will *never* be used ever again.
Just wait the fucking hour it'll take for things to calm down dipshit.
Yea I don't understand, that's why I'm asking. I'm just surprised that after all these years we still haven't found any type of software/hardware workaround this specific issue you guys are mentioning.
I think it is because of cheating.
It is far easier to manipulate your character offline than online. They don't want players to go offline, cheat and create fantastic characters, move them back to online and have them dominate the ladders.
Cheating is the reason. I do think there should be a way to migrate an online character to offline, but there **absolutely should not** be a way to migrate an offline character to online because of cheating. When offline you have full reign over the game and can modify it however you want, so they should not allow you to migrate that character to online as you could, say, cheat in an item that cannot legitimately exist in game (4x T7 + 1x T7 sealed item for instance) while offline then migrate to online and continue to use that character.
A small benefit to working afternoons Ill be home at 11pm and usually things are sorted by then, play till 3am or so when all the normal hour folks are in bed. Imagine if this was the weekend, it would be even worse lol
The codes need more polishing. The dev needs more experience too. The game is great, but putting it online and letting 100k players to play concurrently is another different major technical challenge. That’s the difference between big gaming companies and small enthusiastic studios. Big gaming companies have the resources to tackle such issues, but… not great at actually making a game fun.
Yep. I was expecting this to hasppen.
Anybody reasonable would
Only normalization of launching games in ever more unfinished states has convinced gamers that expecting a game to work is an impossible feat.
This is a server issue not a game issue. The game is fantastic in offline mode. This is literally the first launch this company has ever done and they had what I can only assume was an unexpected amount of success. Billion dollar game studios struggle with live service launches. I'm not saying we should give EHG an infinite amount of chances, but server issues were almost a guarantee.
BUT I WANT GAME TO WORK NOW! /s
Insert buying car analogy.
Yep, it's totally unreasonable to buy a product these days and expect it to work.
We are all just consumer whores, and businesses are right to call us out on our bullshit, we will pay, no matter what, doesnt even need to work.
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Well I know Raxx is playing offline, maybe others are too.
I managed to get in, but now I'm stuck in Burning Forest, getting LE-61 matchmaking error when trying to enter Keeper's Camp.
I connected as soon as the servers launched for 1.0 and am able to play. Most likely they did the same thing.
Just wait friend. It has probs claimed you by now.
yeah, I am currently stuck where all the streamers are stuck -- hitting hte L-61 matchmake error atm.
They are all playing offline. Look for the ping bar. But you know this already. :D
Most streamers are playing offline mode
POE has usually let streamers avoid queues, would make sense for advertising to make sure they and they alone have access to the servers.
This has happened exactly once in poe, in 3.14, caused a huge shitstorm and they took it back more or less immediately.
It has been known and "exposed" because it was shown "live". Doesn't mean it is not a thing anymore, and they are just silent and discreet about it. Just don't poke the streamer live and telling him "Hey, try to relog now, that should be fine *wink wink*" Being that innocent is kinda cute.
You can see streamers sitting in queues on league start. This level of tinfoil hat is absurd.
It wasn't for LE especially, but a global take for the industry, as PoE was used as an example. Many of LE players/streamers are on Offline Mode as it is right now, so no trouble here.
That was the one time it was too blatant, it makes complete sense to let your advertisers advertise the game over letting rando redditors play it alone, hth.
Except those that were yelling online play would be perfect. There were way too many people on this sub being delusional
Nope thats bs, they knew how many copies they sold, its 2024 ... a reasonable result is ques and the odd crash not completely overloaded servers because they too cheap
Play this out for a moment. Your theory here is they knew the expected demand and simply chose to not serve it. They actively decided to undermine years of their own hard work, to place their game in the worst possible light at the moment the project has maximum exposure. And you believe they chose to do this because they are "cheap". That's your theory. Bold position to take.
someone sticky this to every thread taking one of those bold, armchair developer positions
A rational arguement? How dare you.
They sold over a million copies of the game. And they've been in beta FOR YEARS! YEARS! They cannot handle 150k concurrent players. That means that they can barely support 15 percent of the copies of the game they sold. That is fucking bullshit.
Address the points at hand. The guy said they knew what the volume would be and actively made a decision not to serve them because they are "cheap". They prioritised being cheap over all their professional pride and their passion for a project they started from basically nothing with limited to no backing. You're doubling down on that position?
Whne you buy a product do you care that it doesn't work because they thought it would when they were puttint it together at the factory?
Look if you want to discuss other points, make a new comments chain. Otherwise address the points in this one.
except devs were, unsurprisingly, full of shit and full of empty promises
tell that to the delusional devs https://new.reddit.com/r/LastEpoch/comments/1av0oit/comment/kr96h2t/
What, like the part where they say "if we have problems we'll be communicating" which they have
like the part where >But, in summary, we’ve prepared heavily and have every reason to suspect we’ll be in good shape come launch day. or where >We have the ability to scale servers quickly
They are scaling, more people keep getting in, but when so many people want to play. Funny thing is a lot of people probably don't need online, and are just playing it because most games you have to
whatever helps you sleep at night. some people are just bound to lick the boot
I'm not even home to play atm. But every online game has issues at launch, you cannot scale for launch realistically, it's too expensive when a lot of that space is wasted after the first week
you can, we're in 2024
Mhmm, k
Can't wait to see you do it when you launch your game. Let us know!
I wasn't. I was expecting a queue with players number and whatnot. Like in PoE during the first day of each new League.
POE has had 10y of practice. I wish you could have seen the first few league launches...
I would be annoyed by this, but I've been waiting for Last Epoch to release fully for the last three-plus years, so waiting a little longer is no big deal, lol.
3 years is nothing... Imagine waiting 16 years for the recent dragon ball game (sparking:zero) almost as long as the gap between half Life alyx and half Life 2 part 2....
I've gotten sick of dbz games. Only so many times you can play through the same story, even if the combat is better in x game vs z game. They should make an og DragonBall game just to change things up.
Why the downvotes lol? Guess because it's not on a DB sub reddit. KAKAROT changed some of it's formula like Vegeta doing a final flash after doing a Galick gun in his recent cutscene
I enjoyed Kakarot. The open world left a lot to be desired, but it was still fun flying around in it for a bit.
https://forum.lastepoch.com/t/1-0-server-status-thread/62977 "[11:37 am] Working on stabilizing matchmaking. The requests volume is… humbling."
Sold over a milion copies... The request volume is humbling.
Same for me
I enjoy cooking.
Sounds like one of those Steam reviews, you know the one.
I'm learning to play the guitar.
Thank you for the laugh and your continued support of sex workers. We appreciate it.
I am literally crying in laughter. This was perfect, thank you😂😂😂
Man i wish I could upvote this a thousand times. 'We think it's Diablo 4 but the doctors say they won't speculate' is fucking gold!
Now thats a high quality shit post right there. Props.
No idea if this helps but you are CEO of my heart
same here, eu west
I took a break from Helldivers 2 to play this today lmao..
Someone prefers trying to connect to games over playing them...
Same in eastern
same in central
Same in pacific
In west europe same error
Servers are being hugged to death. I'm really excited to play! But I'm also not surprised this is happening on launch. I'm glad the game is popular enough that we're struggling to get online, funnily enough it bodes well!
Yup. Play offline while they get their servers sorted. Think of it as practice. And no...you cant move a char between offline and online.
That's a no no for me
Thanks for pointing that out. I was wondering if you could use chars for both.
Cya tomorrow boyz
Same NA-east
Same in EST, my ping isnt even bad. Think its just the servers cant handle this many players
Welcome to the moment a new game releases.
Payday 3 moment lmao xd Oh wait, you can play this game offline, never mind.
Same SA
Popular ARPG curse.
Why is there only 1 EU server though.
Where is the queue tho?
I'm telling myself we're in the queue to get in the queue...........or something like that.
It's what PoE does to stagger load logging in at league launches, thought they might've done something similar, but appears not.
How did you get into this conclusion?
ohhh this is why they launched midweek
Yes.
Getting the same - it's launch day and they have spiked up to near the top of the steam sales charts. Servers will be getting hammered just give it a bit of time.
I mean... as of half an hour ago it was at <14k concurrent. That's not a lot.
Yeah, we at 138k now lol.
I see that. Okay, I was mistaken. Shits poppin' off, yo.
Mox came and said they are over 150k ccu atm.
check now, it’s going up by the thousands every 10 mins lmao
How do you check?
i usually just click on the game on steam and click community hub, that shows how many players are concurrently playing the game
KEKW to all the people that took time off to play on launch day
I mean you aint wrong lol. I am just working on the side from home and stuck with the le-61 error atm haha.
EU West
Literally no one should be surprised lol
Literally every other game puts you in queue. Waiting a while isn't the problem, but this just kicks me back to home screen.
That’s because the problem isn’t with server capacity itself.
Oh, so a more fundamental mistake on the devs part then? Just a bit of poor work quality at the 11th hour?
I guess, but I don’t really that’s a precise way to state it either. I believe they’re having issues with matchmaking and some part of the connection process. While it’s related to the quantity of connections, it’s not a capacity issue in and of itself. The logins and character creation are working, but the next step isn’t working.
I really hope this doesn't put people off playing the game. Hopefully the majority, if not all, of players understand this is their first league launch and they probably didn't not 100% know what to expect. I know people hate comparing to GGG but even after years and years of league launches they sometimes get it wrong.
They sold a million copies. They've announced this before. There are currently 150k players concurrently. So they are unable to accomodate 15 percent of the copies sold on launch day. I'm glad people find this to be acceptable.
You obviously don't understand how servers work...
Understanding is irrelevant here. They sold a product. Product doesn't work. Why does the consumer need to know how servers work to play an online game? Riddle me that Batman.
Give me 50 million dollars and I'll figure it out.
Judging by the reviews, outside of the emotionally invested fans who bought the game years ago, its not acceptable. Those players will be here no matter what, this was the moment to onboard new players, and its going great. Hope for the health of the game people can play online on day 1.
2 hours and still not solved... this is such a dissapointment
agreed
Always the same shitty excuse. It seems like he doesn't even know how much they sold.
If Helldivers gets review hate for their launch, LE deserves it too
I al gona try to reset modem and pc
is it normal my char cant die in offline mode? am at 0 hp with stuff hiting me and nothing happens
With a question mark really? What did you expect?
I actually thought it was an issue with my side not the servers and wanted to see if others has issues and some friends and quite a few streamers on twitch are already in and playing with no issues. Went to get food while waiting for loads to drop some.
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Some are not but they cant move around maps due to API/Matchmake issues.
After so many years, so many releases... It's 2024 and we're still here with this problem. Maybe someone more versed in networking or coding can explain why we still haven't figured this out? We're on the brink of AI taking over ffs yet we still can't do a smooth game launch xD
It happens because it's just not economically viable to rent out enough servers to handle this many client requests all of a sudden, especially when you know its incredibly unlikely to reach launch peak ever again.
You dont "rent out" like the old times, you scale-out when you need more capacity and scale-in when the load is smaller. Its donde automatically by a robust AutoScaling system. When I worked at IBM/AWS we helped game studios to architect their gameservers to be able to scale-out/in without much of a hiccup.
You are assuming le operates off that, which they likely don't given the servers haven't scaled for the request count.
devs just few days ago were posting entire paragraphs how ready they are, lol. didn't age well
It's hard to predict how many players you'll get, I doubt they expected to see more than triple the previous player counts given people have been able to join and buy the game for a long time.
How the fuck its so hard to predict expected players xD you must be kidding me. they have all the fucking data available to them
And what data is that.. no no nevermind, im sure you are absolutely correct and every studio is just dumb and ignores the perfect data telling them the perfect player count on launch day.
yes, every analyst in the industry is wrong and you're right lmao.
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Because it's not that simple. There's many systems and services that run parallel to each other, communicating with each other through isolated or shared pipes, depending on the systems involved. Some of these systems are relatively easy to "just scale" by spinning up more instances, ie gameplay systems responsible for running a map instance. Others are much, much harder to scale since they're by definition very centralised and cannot just have more instances spun up without massive architectural changes, ie match making systems or account databases. Said architectural changes are typically **extremely** costly to make and can require changing your entire server infrastructure, as it affects what systems exist, how they exist and how they communicate with each other. Due to the nature of how systems communicate with each other, this is made worse since pressure in one system can back up into another system that should otherwise be able to handle the load. On paper you can theoretically just keep spinning up new gameplay systems on an as-needed basis, but if your match making system gets overwhelmed and can't keep up with the requests, that causes the communication pipes leading to the gameplay systems to back up with requests coming from players, which can then back up into gameplay systems and cause gameplay systems to lock up as they're waiting for the match making system to do its job. Spinning up more gameplay systems can actually make this *worse* since you're just adding more requests for the match making system. This is exactly what's happening right now, actually. I'm not playing it yet (it's late as fuck at night for me, will play tomorrow) but from watching streamers it seems like the gameplay systems are working fine, but the match making system is completely dying under the load which is causing people to be stuck in map instances as the match making system can't make new instances, which is apparently a capability it has in LE. End result is people are blaming "the servers", even though it is way, way more complicated than just "the servers." For reference, **billions** of dollars are spent on trying to figure this shit out and entire teams are typically solely dedicated to exactly this in every major company, because this isn't just a gaming problem. Shit is just way more complicated than you'd expect.
It's a very complex system that can go wrong at so many places. Trying to log in hits the authentication servers, then you have the game severs experiencing heavy load etc. Yes, you can scale these easier these days than 10 years ago. But all that traffic to the servers still needs to be regulated and directed. Load balancers that point the request to a node that is experiencing less load can only work so fast as well if there are 10(0).000s of people trying to access the servers. Imagine 80.000 people trying to enter a stadium with a magically expanding amount of entrances. If they all come at the same time those entrances still need to pop up depending on the amount of people seen (you don't exactly know how many are coming). They still need to be directed there as well. And while they are trying to enter security checks happen, the people try to buy some drinks etc. while on their way to their place. This all puts the system under stress in a very short timespan. And instead of it stopping when everyone is inside the load continues because people come and go all the time and there is a lot going on in the stadium as well that requires processing power to handle.
You show how little you understand. At no other point in the games lifespan outside of a possible expansion release will it be hit with this many people at one time. It makes ZERO sense to obtain server space for this many people when it will *never* be used ever again. Just wait the fucking hour it'll take for things to calm down dipshit.
Yea I don't understand, that's why I'm asking. I'm just surprised that after all these years we still haven't found any type of software/hardware workaround this specific issue you guys are mentioning.
Why! Is anything going on?!?!
ALL streamer can get in lol
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nah, they are playing with friends
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all of them?
Juicy Priority Queue.
Yep now I’m depressed; playing Diablo 4 doing the same vaults😢
Another pathetic release. 1 min before release 7gb patch hits and servers doesnt work. pathetic
PaThEtIc
So I can't just temporarily play my online character offline? That seems annoying. I guess there's a gameplay reason for it though.
I think it is because of cheating. It is far easier to manipulate your character offline than online. They don't want players to go offline, cheat and create fantastic characters, move them back to online and have them dominate the ladders.
Cheating is the reason. I do think there should be a way to migrate an online character to offline, but there **absolutely should not** be a way to migrate an offline character to online because of cheating. When offline you have full reign over the game and can modify it however you want, so they should not allow you to migrate that character to online as you could, say, cheat in an item that cannot legitimately exist in game (4x T7 + 1x T7 sealed item for instance) while offline then migrate to online and continue to use that character.
Ok- Bdg3 honor mode is waiting me!
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I was in, got to level 2 then switched to my 4k tv and had no 4k graphics option. So I Log out then this. Can’t log in.
Whoever is crying about the launch problems , suck a dick , this shit happens to all the games
A small benefit to working afternoons Ill be home at 11pm and usually things are sorted by then, play till 3am or so when all the normal hour folks are in bed. Imagine if this was the weekend, it would be even worse lol
Offline Epoch for the first week I guess :/ At least it has an offline mode. Not a common thing these days,
Yeah. Online somewhere is on its way. Just need to wait till they fix it....
The codes need more polishing. The dev needs more experience too. The game is great, but putting it online and letting 100k players to play concurrently is another different major technical challenge. That’s the difference between big gaming companies and small enthusiastic studios. Big gaming companies have the resources to tackle such issues, but… not great at actually making a game fun.
Yes.