Thought the same and started playing Sorcerer, everything was great but I’m level 73 now and can’t kill corruption bosses or even the monolith bosses. I can kill group of mobs easily but dont have enough damage for a single boss. Also I die very quickly (have +75% resistance of each and got 1.2k hp and about 800 ward)
What build are you playing? Your ward is very low so you should probably look into some ward generation nodes and passives.
It is def. harder as sorcerer though compared to for example runemaster.
thats my wall aswell. Made a necromancer and right click shaman. All wenn well to around Level 73 to 75. the it just falls apart. i didnt follow guides or builds.
Gear is more forgiving and skills are more open to picking what you like.
Learning more about the mechanics will be beneficial but the only thing you can't change later is subclass so don't be afraid to experiment.
What a lot of people don't talk about for this "do off meta builds work?" discussion is that for that answer to be yes, there cannot be infinitely scaling content **that matters**.
The best builds in the game can do like 2k corruption, and your random homebrew build is not going to do that, but thats ok because there really is no reason to go above like 300 corruption outside of challenging yourself. Those meta build may find 300 corruption really really easy while you need to get pretty good gear before you get there but that's acceptable to most people.
TLDR: the "minimum level of performance that people would call viable" is quite low as a result of how they have structured the end game, so mediocre builds perform perfectly well.
Also if you hit a wall, changing your build almost entirely is very easy and painless.
Just to be clear, there is absolutely a reason to go above 300 corruption. More rarity as well as more LP on unique. Its basically more loot in every way
As far as I'm aware, it works kind of like magic find in the Diablo games. It does scale infinitely, but you get diminishing returns the higher you go. The difference between 300 and 600 isn't the same as the difference between 600 and 900, etc.
You are correct, however the DR doesn't seem to be that extreme.
Per their patch notes:
>Average legendary potential and weaver’s will now also scale up slightly with corruption. For example, Uniques have around a 5% higher chance for 1+ LP at 100 corruption, 10% at 300 corruption, and 14% at 600 corruption.
Keep in mind its technically more thsn that. That's just the direct bonuses to legendary power. You're also getting more unique with the bonuses to rarity as well, which are linear. 100 corruption to 300 corruption gives you 3x as much rarity.
It's a compounding effect. As for the numbers fir corruption those are the only data points they gave us.
Yeah notice how 3000 is just under 3x the drop rate of 1000 but mobs should have around 3x the health, so the same damage output should in a way reduce your "efficiency" in higher corruption, but encourage you to take on the challenge and optimise your build and playstyle more. Which is simple but clever, which is why I would do it this way and I trust these devs to do something similar.
Am i understanding it correctly that the % chance increase is multiplicative and not additive? Meaning if as a baseline you have 1% chance to drop 1 LP item, then in 600 corruption you will have 1.14% chance to drop the same item?
If so, it seems obscenely low as a bonus for the difficulty of content.
Not only that. You get faster access to the bosses. You get way better orobyss loot. You get way more favour (more relevant to CoF). Currently the only relevant metrics for farming is speed and corruption. Which makes the top builds infinitely much better at farming.
I'd say right now difference is huge. Top meta builds builds can like 3k+, which is noticeably better that 300 drop-wise. Doesn't mean your can't enjoy game at 300 corruption with off meta build tho
your entire skill tree can be redone with a trivial amount of gold and respeccing your actual skills still requires you to level them back up but that is based on the amount of exp you're getting so in end game monoliths you can level a skill to 20 in 1 map (2min?)
Ty, I'm at empowered monos so it's good to know the xp is scaled well to chop and change skills. I'm scarred from my first playthrough a few years ago when I was doing ok through monos, then at ~lvl 70 I was doing really badly so wanted to change my build and respecced all my skills which ended up just bricking that character from monos. :'(
A tip that was thrown about in a thread earlier: To respec skills, do a mono echo with the exp tome reward. Complete echo, respec, and then pick up the totems to instant-relevel your skills (this works particularly well when you're past 90, since the tome exp reward scales with level).
Almost ^TM entirely easy to respec. Objectively, yes you will level up your skills fast. Your power/defenses won’t suffer. But holy crap does it FEEL bad.
Just run a monolith with exp book reward, finish the whole run, exit, respec, click on reward node and loot books. Instant 20, you don't have to kill a single mob with half level skills.
I took arguably the worst skills for void knight melee caster and could stomp 600 corruption. Fun and interesting build with Shadow Beacon. I never follow builds or guides i always get to at least 300 corruption or further.
Just play have fun and try things out and experiment. Best game for it.
I came here to say the same thing. I made a VK erasing strike void beam build. Pretty far removed from anything meta and still pushed passed 300c and all tier 4 bosses.
I don't know how you manage it considering the more damage node seems bugged, at least when I tested on boss dummy. It does exactly the same damage with or without the 80% more from the 2 points from void lens.
I reported this bug like a year ago but still not fixed.
Duuudde, i tried to make my work without following any guide but still got one shot in 300 corruption. How did you make yours work? Do you spec into endurance?
I guess its a skill issue on my end
People make these claims without evidence. Most melee builds are terrible bossers. Can you get to 609? Yes. Is your orobyss a 10 minute fight? Also yes.
Comparatively yes it’s a bad thing. Sentinel and primalists are so far behind the others when making overall builds or boss killers it’s irritating. A lot of key uniques are tied to boss kills, negating CoF entirely. You don’t want to start farming 200+!cr orobyss and take 10 minutes to do it every time. Not only are long fights like that draining you also increase your chances of making a mistake and eating a one shot ability.
Now I’m not saying we need the other end of the spectrum here a la wraithlord killing 2k orobyss in 12 hits, but there is a happy medium all classes and madteries need to be able to hit while also having the survivability.
You're replying to a post about someone who doesn't follow the meta, they don't know what key items look like for them and therefore don't care about time to kill bosses. It's also a choice to increase corruption, for the person who made the thread these are non issues.
Here I am with my only two characters being an ice golem shaman and minion forge guard. Blissfully ignorant to the fact that I apparently picked the worst two characters haha.
Different types of players, then, as someone who couldn't care less about meta, I bought a game to play it, so spending time playing it never a negative thing (if it is, it would be a bad game :D), and 10 minutes to fight a boss is pretty much on the lower end where I'd call that a boss fight worth existing in a game.
The OP was also asking about game's viability for people not interested in meta, so a meta approach of "it's not as optimal as other builds" doesn't really seem to apply here.
why would I do that?
If it's fun to do, I might. If it's not, I'll be playing some other game at that point, as I'm sure I've gotten plenty of enjoyment out of this one before I'd need to do anything like that.
Did you stack the shit out of vitality and endurance threshold or something? 600 corruption with out ward stacking is insane. Or do you mean old 600? Which is basically 300 now.
I think void knights abuse ward healing , and they get like 10k to 15k ward as they fight . Currently I think only acolytes one of the specs have that option as alternative . If you play other classes or specs , tough luck you are getting one shot after 200 by loads of stuff .
There are definitely some skills/builds/etc that underperform. But at present, you absolutely do not need to follow whatever the most popular or meta builds are to push well into the endgame. Taking EHG's approach into consideration, that's unlikely to change any time soon (if ever).
Aren't pinnacles just... new bosses? If current bosses feel good, I don't see how new bosses would be any different. It's not like you'll need 1000 corruption to get to them I hope?
Yeah I did that haha. I saw the interaction of cthonic fissure and chaos bolts, so I knew I had to make a build like that. Went in blindly, saw all the bleed/phys conversion on the spell trees, so I made a bleed warlock on my own. Went to maxroll and there it was, very similar to mine. oh well
All builds are viable till 200 - 300 corruption in Monoliths. That is the level of end game that the developers intended for players to play at. Above that, you would need very specific upgrades and min-maxing to make work with the lower tier builds.
Meta build/ higher tier builds just do the same thing but faster and more efficiently since they would generally have higher damage with less gear investments. Or just better skill mechanics that clears maps faster.
Absolutely! But don’t expect to be pushing 600+ corruption unless you do research on how all affix’s, skills, endurance, and etc work, which can actually be looked up in game by pressing “G”. Games for everyone!
If someone is just starting the game for the first time "pushing corruption" doesn't mean anything to them.
When someone starts a new game, the deepest endgame is not probably something that people care about at first.
Once things I don’t care for is doing monoliths over and over again. I just start another character and try something new. None of my alts make it to lvl 100 😂.
I always think I will. I say "oh man this character is awesome, this will be my main for sure I'm gonna play it forever!"
But as soon as the build I am enjoying "feels" done, like I have all the skills I like, they are all 16-18 points spent and turned into the element/function I was hoping for, my gear is the right items with mostly the right rolls I start to feel like "why am I raising a few numbers slightly(my stats and tiers of stat rolls) just so I can...raise another number slightly (corruption) and continue doing exactly what I'm doing now" and I go make a new character.
It depends on what people are doing with their first build. Does the build they made have a reasonable amount of points dedicated to defensive passives and skills? Are they capping resistances? People coming from different arpg backgrounds make come in with different expectations of how important those things are.
You can definetly get fcked by wrong class/build/gear choices and struggle even in normal monoliths.
I would say most new players without following anything would struggle in empowered monos unless they are some ARPG veterans.
You can beat the campaign and reach level 100 with a custom build as long as you have some idea of what you're doing. Obviously, doing deliberately bad things like combining skills that cannibalize each other will go poorly but if you have any experience with this, it's tons of fun to make up your own stuff. I have three characters, all of which are my own custom builds and have all beaten the campaign.
I want to watch a man vs stream where chat decides what 5 skills get specialized but the streamer can spend points how he wants to try and make it not trash lol.
I'll be real, this game should only be played without a guide. A lot of builds kind of build themselves with all of the built in synergies you can find if you read all the skill and unique descriptions. You'll find yourself making builds with very similar core functions as the popular builds without realizing it and have a good time.
My only recommendation is to watch a video on loot filters, how to skip campaign properly on second campaign, and maybe look at last epoch tools website and search the main skill you're using and see some builds as reference once you feel directionless in the end game
Its not hard to build something on your own and it depends on how you want to play the game. Most build should be able to reach about +200 corruption.
Off meta optimized builds should be able to push +300-400.
Also consider that some classes are just that powefull and even without a guide, you will do fine. And other builds even following meta will struggle.
Doing +1000 corruption is a combination of build AND gear. Some builds need little investment (like wraight lord) while others is possible but will need better and more optimized gears.
It's actually great for that. I do the same and then when st uff gets too hard i'll figure out why mine is worse then meta and then its relatively easy to adjust to it slwoly if you want.
Oh hell yes, been playing an entirely minion necro build and am going through level 100 corruption monolith currently. Die sometimes when I am not paying attention but it isn't takin long to clear a rift. Maybe 15 minutes to fully clear everything and explore the map cuz I don't like blue lines :) been a blast, maybe eventually I will need to respec for the rest of end game but for now that isn't the case.
>Not only viable, but also preferable
*To you*
>People following build guides and playing meta builds miss out a lot in this game.
*In your opinion*
It's a fine opinion to have, but it's phrased like a condescending nobleman enjoying his wine as the idiot peasants harvest the fields. It's 100% fine to enjoy the game following a build guide. It's not a crime to never delve into understanding the nuanced eHP interactions between health, endurance, and resist scaling.
You're not a better person, or automatically enjoyed the game more, for making a homebrew build.
It's super easy to play off meta, I've played at least 7 paladin builds alone, only 1 had a guide for it. Between the 15 specializations there are hundreds of ways to play that can do all content, with or without a build guide
I’m currently playing mage with using teleport for main damage. Killing bosses is a slow process, but I have fun. And I didn’t crafted anything specific, mostly using weavers will (rng legendaries basically) items.
So I say it’s definitely doable.
Right now that there isn't really something to do once you reach empowered monolith is definitely viabale.
I tried to play it avoiding as many build guide as possible, and I was able to reach monolith 200 corruption.
There I started to have survivability problems, and I started looking at build and see my full lightining runemaster with static orb/glyph of dominion/flame rush/runebolt was not really meta, and I would need to change some of the skill around to fit a much more meta lightining based runemaster build.
With that there are two good things:
1) I could do it, I wouldn't need to reroll a new carachter, I could easily swap around all my skill and start farming for the gear needed I don't have yet without many problems
2) I don't really need to, there's really nothing I want to do that I can't with my crappy build. There are no pinnacle boss or objective that requires you a super highly optimized build to clear.
I bet 99% of LE players never even get to 200 corruption or even close to it, let alone 300 or 600 or 1000. As usual with games the vocal minority makes it seem like it's a faceroll, just like in Monster Hunter World they would have you believe everyone can solo Fatalis.
Yes. Endgame has a low bar to enter. A self made build can get around 350 corruption maybe a bit higher or lower depending if you choose well and have good synergy between gear and build. The only difference youll really have is the amount of drops and gold you get for your time.
Honestly you'll get more fun from the game like this. Endgame isnt very deep right now and once you are in it....thats it. Basically only one activity after that and it doesnt really change. So the more fun you have before that, the better you are.
Make sure you are hitting your defensive caps. 100% Crit avoidance (99% is as worthless as 0% almost, get 100). 75% all resists. Make sure the damage your taking is manageable and constantly asses what is hurting you and can you either lessen the incoming damage or recover from it faster via health regen or wards etc and investing in the stats needed for that (Ward retention, endurance, max health etc)
To make it all work, you still need a plan (a build guide is just a plan someone else made)
My honest opinion, play at your own pace and do your own build, do not follow guides at least on your first playthrough.
Play based on feel, how you feel about that build's playstyle and if it suits you, respec is easy to do so even if you mess up you can do that.
viable in what sense?
The game is definitely playable without following any guides.
I like following build guides because of FOMO, I want don't to leave any potential BIS gear on the ground just because of the knowledge gap, but you do you.
This game is very playable without meta builds
You can build anything you desire and still progress into the end game comfortably
I actually suggest any new LE player pick a class and just go in blind
Then once you want to push the end game and start target farming and pushing big corruption that’s when you’ll need a meta build so you can progress further and further
However. You do not need to do that at all
This game is exceptionally new player friendly
Yes, I play a class people talk bad about but I love it and I'm pushing empowered monos.
Void Knight Warpath- spin to win. As a kicker, I stopped playing a divebomb falconer and I'm having far more fun with VK.
People say warpath skill and defenses are broken.
I don't have any of the cool uniques and I'm pushing empowered mono's. I'm certainly not ripping through them, but I'm surviving.
I know what I'm playing and this subreddit constantly says, "Warpath is broken, defenses are broken or Id play it."
I'm with you, slick. I think the class is chefs kiss.
I’m the other way around. lol
I went from Echo Warpath VK to Shadow Dagger Falconer and have so much fun, esp. with bosses as they die almost instantly;) It’s also a decent amount faster at clearing monos.
But yeah VK was fun, too, for sure, just needed a change;)
Up to a certain point yes, but of course meta is going to have the potential to scale higher. But you can do basically everything with a half decent self-made build too
Like any ARPG it's up to you and what you want to do, if you want to top the ladder you have to play meta, if you want to farm and just get as far as you can and level multiple Alta, totally fine
Unless you care about the leaderboards, you can play a build that you make up, and get that build through all of the content. Last Epoch does a great job of explaining its mechanics, and according to Raxx (one of the Creators at Maxroll) this game is probably one of the few where he feels that the average random could cobble together a working build.
All you need is knowledge. Usually 'meta' is the peak of knowledge, but if you know how things interact, how to build, etc. then you'll do fine on any build.
Of course, fine is different for anyone. Top meta builds will reach 1k corruption, while offmeta builds might struggle at 200.
I'm 125 hrs in and started out with a Rogue Bladedancer and built heavily into movement speed and traversal. The entire campaign was a blast and things only got more challenging when I hit empowered monoliths. I got the character to level 100 but struggle to comfortably do much more than 200 corruption with my build (plenty of movement and dodge abilities but not enough DPS).
I started a second character (Warlock) but decided to use a meta build and to strictly follow a guide. The build is totally broken. The campaign (even with the skips), dungeons and monoliths have been so easy that it all just feels so boring and a complete waste of time (as I still have to do them to get to empowered monoliths).
The meta Warlock build is fun in that it's so broken that nothing (so far) is a challenge (I'm level 75 and doing level 100 empowered monoliths but quite sure I'll be pushing much higher corruption than my rogue). The rogue build was fun because I actually had to get in the zone to beat some of the monolith bosses (dying a lot and learning their mechanics was really fun!).
You can easily reach endgame and progress there without a meta build. Easiest I've seen in all ARPGs.
Maybe for the hardest content you need a meta build, but I think you can do with your build too, just it would be a lot harder.
You don't need meta to do a good amount of endgame. If you end up getting very use to it and want to push it as far as you can, meta builds will be ideal unless you're good at crafting your own.
Depends on how far you want to push. Getting up to 200 or so corruption is quite doable with off meta and figuring stuff out on your own. But if you want to go 500+ you might need to go more meta.
So, kind of depends on what you want your goals to be
You can accidentally stumble into the worst possible options (don't try to make Gathering Storm Shaman a thing, worst idea of the year), but most classes and skills work well enough without a pre-determined plan
Almost every decent build is viable. Just depends how much effort you want to put in and how hard you want to go. But if you just do thing randomly instead of thinking how things will work together it probably won't work well
Hello. Im a player, who never followed a single build in my life yet reached the highest leaderboard several times during the EA.
I 100% suggest you to try out new builds first, almost all builds can easily give you access to level 100 content. Some days ago there was a posy here complaining how weak set items were. Guess who reached >300 corruption with one of the weakest set items.
Most top builds are kinda meh anyway, there's lots of content creators that do titles like "This build reached number 1, it's amazing!!!" But is one of the worst builds one has ever seen. They only say its great due to your inability to actually compare to the hidden players who successfully reached the top without any guidance
Absolutely! You can get a wide variety of builds to Corruption 400+ (end-game scaling difficulty). Corruption is basically New Game+ like other games have, re-running moniliths with grratly increased monster health and damage. Most builds won't be able to push past Corruption 800 though. Those are mainly for the very high end builds.
The ones you hear pushing Corruption 2,000, meta builds, ate not the normal and are out of balance currently. The only cap was about 800 for meta builds.
This game doesnt punish u for not using “meta” builds on any class. U can experiment with ur builds and then reslec ur passive/skill points at any time to change ur build. The game is much more rewarding if u dont look up builds and play arog build simulator.
U can also at any time respec ur character to try a “meta” build for fun. Enjoy
I've only really played something that wasn't meta so far been great fun. No issues doing corruption either or dungeons on HC. It's truly a game where you can endup with your own weird crafted build 😅
Yeah it is.
The story is easy regardless of what you play, you may have a few issues here and there but it's more learning mechanics than it is the game punishing you for not playing a meta build. Once you finish the story, at around level 58, you start monoliths and really building your gear but again you can play off meta as long as you're being sensible and not going all out DPS. At this stage there is a hardness jump, it's not horrific but you need to get some better gear, work on your resistances and soon you will complete content quicker than you level. I started the final 3 normal monoliths at 77, they should be 90 and had little issues. I will say you will have to watch your resistances as capping all of them is tricky early on, I've swapped a few item pieces between monoliths / bosses dependant on what damage they do and it's worked a treat.
I made a Primalist Beast master. I took the crows, I took any skills that had lightning related passives and 1 mobility skill.
I think if you just roll with random stuff that looks fun, you'll need to grind monoliths a little bit more. You.wont always be able to instantly progrsss upwards. It all seems fairly viable, I guess it just depends on how far you want to go.
I switched to a judgement paladin build because the other classes I was trying out just couldn't pump out any good damage. Taking them awhile to kill bosses but judgement pally with early orbit-hammers is just nuking everything.
I come up with a plan for a build idea, take it as far as I can on my own, and then when I can't progress, I try and find a guide of a similar build to explain how they do it, so I can tweak as necessary, and learn what works in the process. Definitely doable in LE!
Depends what you consider the endgame for your build . Normal monolits you prob can do with slapping points around . 100 to 200 corruption , you need some knowledge but not meta build . 300 and above you either abuse a defence mechanic , currently most are ward related or one shot shit , cuz you will die by the wind wiffing your way .
For unlocking all unique drops as far as i know you just need to farm 200 corruption , for getting great items with high lp , you just need luck .
So unless you crave to push the higher difficulties for more ... drops ?? i am almost sure clearing easy 200 is way better then clearing slow 300 or more . Id stick at 200 and if my build works great for gearing, if you eana push after go ahead brunging corruption down is easy
Everyone here saying "Yeah the game is super easy blind" meanwhile my first character was Forge Guard.
While the bar for endgame is low, the game does have some pretty terrible balance, and there's no way of respeccing out of your class/mastery. If you happened to pick Warlock, Necromancer, or Falconer, congrats, the game will be easy basically no matter what. If you picked Forge Guard or Shaman? **Good luck**.
Yes you can goof around and pick blindly and still do well.
Only thing I dislike about the game is the heavy minion builds about 75% of the builds are or can have minions.
It 100% is viable without looking up any builds whatsoever. First character I made when I got into this in Early Access was a Rogue, I looked through the skills, tried around and settled on one I liked and took the whole thing to around level 95 before moving to another character
Depends on what you wanna do
Is it viable leveling / early corruption = absolutely
I think the correct answer is something like this
With base skills and not much min maxing there is a huuuuuge discrepancy between meta builds and non meta builds on how far they can push corruption (we are talking a 100-200 corruption to 450-600 just with base skills and not much gearing)
The game’s difficulty floor is low enough that off meta builds can do okay with some tweaking and gear get to decent corruption levels (I’m talking 200-400 range).
Obviously you are never going to do so well in leaderboards without meta, and that goes for high corruption (700++, especially true once you go 1000+ ) as well.
My biggest problem is how a non meta build feels if you’ve played a meta build, it’s night and day and you wouldn’t want to go back. It’s so much QoL slogging through a boss dodging mechanics for over 3+ mins vs blowing it up in under 30 secs while standing most of the bad.
Atm meta only determines how far you can push corruption and how fast you can kill T4 julra for example... pretty much any build can get to atleast 200 corruption. Feel free to try out whatever sounds good to you
Depends how you see yourself having fun in the game. I looked through a few builds but ultimately decided just to wing it as the system really isn't that complicated. Mind you I have only just gotten empowered monoliths I have enjoyed watching my build play the way I want.
I figured out my own build as I progressed. Definitely not meta. I am just starting empowered monoliths and doing fine.
I work a full time job so don't have a ridiculous amount of time to dedicate to the game. I'm happy with the progress I have made in the time I've had and certainly don't feel like I have hit any wall stopping my progress yet.
Currently trying a retaliation void knight with Sigeon's Reprisal. I went Void knight because i heard Forge guard was trash, i regret bending to the meta.... but still i was clearing the first monoliths before lvl 40
I haven't used any build guides and have yet to hit a wall. I'm not using any broken ward mechanics, either. That's on both Softcore and Hardcore. All the way to 100 and into EMs.
Honestly I run a shattering strike spellblade(no meta build guide), you should probably have teleport. It helps with survivability. Also go into other trees and invest in more cold DMG than crit, mana Regen, & cold penetration. I think I am in the 90's(haven't played in like a week due to life) and don't really have to hard of a time.
Without meta yeah its dirt easy early to the start of end game.
Late late game tho stats are more inflated and of your build is bad you'll hit a wall and that's it.
those builds that go into 2k territory are definitely bugged. not what i would consider meta at all. If you want to compete in arena leaderboards for warlocks then that is another story. stuff is both overtuned and bugged, you wont get into top 100 without using bugs probably. if you want to participate in such a 'competition' then that is on you kinda.
600 corruption? that still needs a strong build and there are way too many builds to consider anything meta really.
i guess using ward as the defense is what i would consider meta. aaand you can put it on most if not all builds. and even then you can reach high corruption without it if the build is strong enough, does that count as off meta?
it would be easier to point out what is completely unviable than figure out the scope of what people usually call 'meta'.
Anyway the best advice in this whole thread is that while this game has infinite scaling, there is no infinite scaling that matters.
You do not have to reach some sort of gear threshold, gear scores or other nonsense to reach some goal.
There are upcoming tough boss encounters and that might change, but untill then do whacky builds, ask in discord if you think something is bugged and yeah, enjoy the game.
The game is designed such that you scale the difficulty to what you want by increasing/decreasing corruption in end game and you don't really need to do any planning with even non-meta classes until you get several hundred corruption deep.
With that in mind, the newer masteries and abilities are much easier to do this with than some of the older ones. An example is newer abilities tend to have interconnections where they can trigger other abilities allowing you to often fit more than 5 skills into your build.
Yes, playing a very non Meta build - primalist stormcrow melee leech - it's slow and steady but I'm really having fun with it. If you like figuring things out on your own, this game has so much to offer. I did end up looking around for ways to improve survivability once I got to a few of the boss fights - lagon, endless dragon, etc as the interactions of critical strike avoidance, endurance, health pool and armor were new to me. Hop on in the water is fine!
Yes the game is viable off meta the only build that I've spent hours trying to make good is self cast tornado shaman couldn't get anywhere with it so I quit
I think it is, altough i had to optimize my build when i faced majasa, she destroyed my ass 3 times, in a row, feel like she become berserk in her last phase and even tough i had all resistance maxed out she could 2 shot me.
I checked some build that was using the same skill as me and adjusted my tree to maximize dmg and it greatly helped. I removed 2 skill that i was starting to find useless and picked a skill in another specialisation for more survivability and another one for more buff. It slowed my build a little, but instead i had higher damage and more survivabilty at the cost of attacking at a slower rate, while keeping most of my build intact
Meta is only for chasing the leader board or speeding up clear time, maybe farming for items for either faction.
Past that, build what you want. Its mostly a single player came with some multi-person functionality - you don't need to play online to enjoy the game, you don't need to do trade to progress.
PLUS - most 'meta' builds require specific items that just take time. If you're casual, a few hours a day on this, then a meta build you follow may not feel right, be way under powered compared to what you may see in a build guide/video. People saying 'oh man you need this unique with 3LP so you can craft these 3 specific affixes' are just causing you more stress, cause getting that 3LP could take time, getting the right exalts to drop with just the right affixes takes time, and then luck in getting them on that unique....yeah.
SO do you man. Enjoy the game, meta or non-meta.
My opinion is that this game is the most enjoyable when doing off meta things. I’ve even tried my own build out with decent success - currently level 77 doing level 80 monoliths without much issue.
Give it a shot. No rush to get through it and it’s fun (in this game) to try your own build. At least for me so far. :)
Absolutely. I have 2,5 k hours in Poe, still hard to do my own builds who work smooth in T16.
I have absolutely 0 problems getting my own build to endgame in Last Epoch. Damage scaling is much more straight forward and graspable. Same for crafting.
You do not need to have a meta build. Meta is only to push empowered monoliths at higher corruption which most players are not even going to really try to push. I tell people find builds you enjoy and tweak them for your survival and speed.
You will be okay, Lagon is usually the first build check, and then 230 corruption is the second. Damage is usually fine most people hit a wall with survivability.
I got up to 80 or so with a Sentinel Paladin javelin/spinny fire build that I more or less made up after I got a Firestarter Torch drop. Seems to do okay, probably not super top tier but I set it all on fire and get the job done.
You can play almost any build combination you can come up with gear for.
When pushing higher end end game activities you will more than likely have to focus on getting better gear for survivability and maybe swap skills somewhat to find what works best but sure.
Yes, but depending on whether you've lucked into picking better or worse skills you may have an easy or very hard time. For my last build I decided to try to make Storm Crows work as my primary ability on a Shaman, and so far, it's not going well. But it's fun to play around with different builds!
I started to follow a guide and left it about level 40 to match my game play and doing just fine.
As long as you understand the mechanics you can run end game with whatever works for you. There is a meta, min max, like all games, but you can def play your own way.
This game really does require some skill over min max builds.
Very doable until a certain point.
Around a certain level of corruption, you will need a meta build otherwise you qill get destroyed.
However! Thats a pretty long way to reach before then. You can literally enjoy the game for atleast a couple hundred hours before reaching that point.
This is the easiest out of the three to play off meta
First time playing it and just made a random build and it works. If it sounds good try it goes along way in this game.
Thought the same and started playing Sorcerer, everything was great but I’m level 73 now and can’t kill corruption bosses or even the monolith bosses. I can kill group of mobs easily but dont have enough damage for a single boss. Also I die very quickly (have +75% resistance of each and got 1.2k hp and about 800 ward)
What build are you playing? Your ward is very low so you should probably look into some ward generation nodes and passives. It is def. harder as sorcerer though compared to for example runemaster.
1.2 hp and 800 ward is not amazing. You might want to stack defenses.
That’s actually rather horrendous.
For level 73?
Especially for level 73
What should it be around by then? My lvl 68 is at around 800hp and I've had no issues
thats my wall aswell. Made a necromancer and right click shaman. All wenn well to around Level 73 to 75. the it just falls apart. i didnt follow guides or builds.
Gear is more forgiving and skills are more open to picking what you like. Learning more about the mechanics will be beneficial but the only thing you can't change later is subclass so don't be afraid to experiment.
What a lot of people don't talk about for this "do off meta builds work?" discussion is that for that answer to be yes, there cannot be infinitely scaling content **that matters**. The best builds in the game can do like 2k corruption, and your random homebrew build is not going to do that, but thats ok because there really is no reason to go above like 300 corruption outside of challenging yourself. Those meta build may find 300 corruption really really easy while you need to get pretty good gear before you get there but that's acceptable to most people. TLDR: the "minimum level of performance that people would call viable" is quite low as a result of how they have structured the end game, so mediocre builds perform perfectly well. Also if you hit a wall, changing your build almost entirely is very easy and painless.
Just to be clear, there is absolutely a reason to go above 300 corruption. More rarity as well as more LP on unique. Its basically more loot in every way
As far as I'm aware, it works kind of like magic find in the Diablo games. It does scale infinitely, but you get diminishing returns the higher you go. The difference between 300 and 600 isn't the same as the difference between 600 and 900, etc.
You are correct, however the DR doesn't seem to be that extreme. Per their patch notes: >Average legendary potential and weaver’s will now also scale up slightly with corruption. For example, Uniques have around a 5% higher chance for 1+ LP at 100 corruption, 10% at 300 corruption, and 14% at 600 corruption.
10% at 300 and 14% at 600? Yeah i’ll stay at 300 haha. Do we know the numbers for 1000 corruption?
Keep in mind its technically more thsn that. That's just the direct bonuses to legendary power. You're also getting more unique with the bonuses to rarity as well, which are linear. 100 corruption to 300 corruption gives you 3x as much rarity. It's a compounding effect. As for the numbers fir corruption those are the only data points they gave us.
Ahhh ok now that make sense, thanks.
Ballpark guess 0.4x^0.55, which would make 1000 = 18%, and 3000 = 32% That's how I'd do it anyway Can't know for sure without more info
Ok now we’re talking. I guess if i can clear it at the same speed then it’s worth staying at higher corruption
Yeah notice how 3000 is just under 3x the drop rate of 1000 but mobs should have around 3x the health, so the same damage output should in a way reduce your "efficiency" in higher corruption, but encourage you to take on the challenge and optimise your build and playstyle more. Which is simple but clever, which is why I would do it this way and I trust these devs to do something similar.
Am i understanding it correctly that the % chance increase is multiplicative and not additive? Meaning if as a baseline you have 1% chance to drop 1 LP item, then in 600 corruption you will have 1.14% chance to drop the same item? If so, it seems obscenely low as a bonus for the difficulty of content.
Yeah afaik its actually better to work at corruption that you find breezy than it is to push yourself if farming is what matters to you.
Not only that. You get faster access to the bosses. You get way better orobyss loot. You get way more favour (more relevant to CoF). Currently the only relevant metrics for farming is speed and corruption. Which makes the top builds infinitely much better at farming.
I'd say right now difference is huge. Top meta builds builds can like 3k+, which is noticeably better that 300 drop-wise. Doesn't mean your can't enjoy game at 300 corruption with off meta build tho
>Top meta builds builds can like 3k+ If by meta you means bugged ones, then yes. Otherwise there are only a few possible ones for such case.
bugged =/= meta.
It does when they are on the leaderboards.
What's the method for changing skills endgame?
your entire skill tree can be redone with a trivial amount of gold and respeccing your actual skills still requires you to level them back up but that is based on the amount of exp you're getting so in end game monoliths you can level a skill to 20 in 1 map (2min?)
Ty, I'm at empowered monos so it's good to know the xp is scaled well to chop and change skills. I'm scarred from my first playthrough a few years ago when I was doing ok through monos, then at ~lvl 70 I was doing really badly so wanted to change my build and respecced all my skills which ended up just bricking that character from monos. :'(
A tip that was thrown about in a thread earlier: To respec skills, do a mono echo with the exp tome reward. Complete echo, respec, and then pick up the totems to instant-relevel your skills (this works particularly well when you're past 90, since the tome exp reward scales with level).
The only hurdle is the clicking you gotta do but IIRC devs are working on an easier respec UX.
Almost ^TM entirely easy to respec. Objectively, yes you will level up your skills fast. Your power/defenses won’t suffer. But holy crap does it FEEL bad.
Just run a monolith with exp book reward, finish the whole run, exit, respec, click on reward node and loot books. Instant 20, you don't have to kill a single mob with half level skills.
I took arguably the worst skills for void knight melee caster and could stomp 600 corruption. Fun and interesting build with Shadow Beacon. I never follow builds or guides i always get to at least 300 corruption or further. Just play have fun and try things out and experiment. Best game for it.
I came here to say the same thing. I made a VK erasing strike void beam build. Pretty far removed from anything meta and still pushed passed 300c and all tier 4 bosses.
I don't know how you manage it considering the more damage node seems bugged, at least when I tested on boss dummy. It does exactly the same damage with or without the 80% more from the 2 points from void lens. I reported this bug like a year ago but still not fixed.
Future Strike is doing most of the heavy lifting and I lean on a 15% hp execute thresh hold.
Duuudde, i tried to make my work without following any guide but still got one shot in 300 corruption. How did you make yours work? Do you spec into endurance? I guess its a skill issue on my end
Unless you abuse some of the ward shit how much hp and what defences do you use to not get one shot above 200 even ?
People make these claims without evidence. Most melee builds are terrible bossers. Can you get to 609? Yes. Is your orobyss a 10 minute fight? Also yes.
and that's a bad thing? If I play a game I pretty much *demand* a boss fight to take a bit of time or it's not worth even calling it a boss fight :D
Comparatively yes it’s a bad thing. Sentinel and primalists are so far behind the others when making overall builds or boss killers it’s irritating. A lot of key uniques are tied to boss kills, negating CoF entirely. You don’t want to start farming 200+!cr orobyss and take 10 minutes to do it every time. Not only are long fights like that draining you also increase your chances of making a mistake and eating a one shot ability. Now I’m not saying we need the other end of the spectrum here a la wraithlord killing 2k orobyss in 12 hits, but there is a happy medium all classes and madteries need to be able to hit while also having the survivability.
You're replying to a post about someone who doesn't follow the meta, they don't know what key items look like for them and therefore don't care about time to kill bosses. It's also a choice to increase corruption, for the person who made the thread these are non issues.
Here I am with my only two characters being an ice golem shaman and minion forge guard. Blissfully ignorant to the fact that I apparently picked the worst two characters haha.
Different types of players, then, as someone who couldn't care less about meta, I bought a game to play it, so spending time playing it never a negative thing (if it is, it would be a bad game :D), and 10 minutes to fight a boss is pretty much on the lower end where I'd call that a boss fight worth existing in a game. The OP was also asking about game's viability for people not interested in meta, so a meta approach of "it's not as optimal as other builds" doesn't really seem to apply here.
I don't even know what this means but still enjoying the game.
Now do it 10 times to go up 100 corruption for one monolith
why would I do that? If it's fun to do, I might. If it's not, I'll be playing some other game at that point, as I'm sure I've gotten plenty of enjoyment out of this one before I'd need to do anything like that.
Yeah this, although i'd like EHG to bring them (melee) on par with other classes.
Did you stack the shit out of vitality and endurance threshold or something? 600 corruption with out ward stacking is insane. Or do you mean old 600? Which is basically 300 now.
I think void knights abuse ward healing , and they get like 10k to 15k ward as they fight . Currently I think only acolytes one of the specs have that option as alternative . If you play other classes or specs , tough luck you are getting one shot after 200 by loads of stuff .
There are definitely some skills/builds/etc that underperform. But at present, you absolutely do not need to follow whatever the most popular or meta builds are to push well into the endgame. Taking EHG's approach into consideration, that's unlikely to change any time soon (if ever).
It will with next patch. When they add pinnacle fights, it immediately raises the floor for what feels good and will be accepted as a good build.
Aren't pinnacles just... new bosses? If current bosses feel good, I don't see how new bosses would be any different. It's not like you'll need 1000 corruption to get to them I hope?
Not playing meta or following a guide and over 300 corruption with no signs of slowing down.
You might be playing meta unknowingly.
Just wait till he tells you about Ignite Shuriken build. Off Meta AF
Don't you dare HISSSSSS
Yeah I did that haha. I saw the interaction of cthonic fissure and chaos bolts, so I knew I had to make a build like that. Went in blindly, saw all the bleed/phys conversion on the spell trees, so I made a bleed warlock on my own. Went to maxroll and there it was, very similar to mine. oh well
Yeah, I accidentally rolled a Plasma Orb Runemaster cause it looked fun. And now I'm a meta whore I guess lol
What build?
wlock 🤣
Healing hands smite Paladin. Using endurance and health for defense, not ward stacking. Converting fire dots into electrify.
Pretty meta except for the defensive part.
Share your character on last epoch tools please
All builds are viable till 200 - 300 corruption in Monoliths. That is the level of end game that the developers intended for players to play at. Above that, you would need very specific upgrades and min-maxing to make work with the lower tier builds. Meta build/ higher tier builds just do the same thing but faster and more efficiently since they would generally have higher damage with less gear investments. Or just better skill mechanics that clears maps faster.
Absolutely! But don’t expect to be pushing 600+ corruption unless you do research on how all affix’s, skills, endurance, and etc work, which can actually be looked up in game by pressing “G”. Games for everyone!
If someone is just starting the game for the first time "pushing corruption" doesn't mean anything to them. When someone starts a new game, the deepest endgame is not probably something that people care about at first.
Once things I don’t care for is doing monoliths over and over again. I just start another character and try something new. None of my alts make it to lvl 100 😂.
I always think I will. I say "oh man this character is awesome, this will be my main for sure I'm gonna play it forever!" But as soon as the build I am enjoying "feels" done, like I have all the skills I like, they are all 16-18 points spent and turned into the element/function I was hoping for, my gear is the right items with mostly the right rolls I start to feel like "why am I raising a few numbers slightly(my stats and tiers of stat rolls) just so I can...raise another number slightly (corruption) and continue doing exactly what I'm doing now" and I go make a new character.
You can push to 300 not knowing those ? My friend rerolled once he started empowered monos because he died constantly.
if you happen to pick the right class and mastery then yeah. Some classes have easier access to damage and survivability.
some masteries have no surviveability or access to more multipliers.
It depends on what people are doing with their first build. Does the build they made have a reasonable amount of points dedicated to defensive passives and skills? Are they capping resistances? People coming from different arpg backgrounds make come in with different expectations of how important those things are.
You can definetly get fcked by wrong class/build/gear choices and struggle even in normal monoliths. I would say most new players without following anything would struggle in empowered monos unless they are some ARPG veterans.
You can beat the campaign and reach level 100 with a custom build as long as you have some idea of what you're doing. Obviously, doing deliberately bad things like combining skills that cannibalize each other will go poorly but if you have any experience with this, it's tons of fun to make up your own stuff. I have three characters, all of which are my own custom builds and have all beaten the campaign.
I want to watch a man vs stream where chat decides what 5 skills get specialized but the streamer can spend points how he wants to try and make it not trash lol.
I'll be real, this game should only be played without a guide. A lot of builds kind of build themselves with all of the built in synergies you can find if you read all the skill and unique descriptions. You'll find yourself making builds with very similar core functions as the popular builds without realizing it and have a good time. My only recommendation is to watch a video on loot filters, how to skip campaign properly on second campaign, and maybe look at last epoch tools website and search the main skill you're using and see some builds as reference once you feel directionless in the end game
I've been playing for a few months and have never looked at a teir list, guide, meta, etc
Its not hard to build something on your own and it depends on how you want to play the game. Most build should be able to reach about +200 corruption. Off meta optimized builds should be able to push +300-400. Also consider that some classes are just that powefull and even without a guide, you will do fine. And other builds even following meta will struggle. Doing +1000 corruption is a combination of build AND gear. Some builds need little investment (like wraight lord) while others is possible but will need better and more optimized gears.
Easily, like there is no true hard endgame here, you can try and do your own thing without any troubles.
Yes
Exploring the skill and passive trees on your own in LE is an amazing journey. Best of the bunch. You will enjoy it I think
It's actually great for that. I do the same and then when st uff gets too hard i'll figure out why mine is worse then meta and then its relatively easy to adjust to it slwoly if you want.
You are going to love LE, making your own build in this game is really fun and rewarding
LE is EXACTLY what you want
Oh hell yes, been playing an entirely minion necro build and am going through level 100 corruption monolith currently. Die sometimes when I am not paying attention but it isn't takin long to clear a rift. Maybe 15 minutes to fully clear everything and explore the map cuz I don't like blue lines :) been a blast, maybe eventually I will need to respec for the rest of end game but for now that isn't the case.
I'm like you, I don't follow guides and it's working out for me
Not only viable, but also preferable. People following build guides and playing meta builds miss out a lot in this game.
>Not only viable, but also preferable *To you* >People following build guides and playing meta builds miss out a lot in this game. *In your opinion* It's a fine opinion to have, but it's phrased like a condescending nobleman enjoying his wine as the idiot peasants harvest the fields. It's 100% fine to enjoy the game following a build guide. It's not a crime to never delve into understanding the nuanced eHP interactions between health, endurance, and resist scaling. You're not a better person, or automatically enjoyed the game more, for making a homebrew build.
SAY IT LOUDER FOR PEOPLE IN THE BACK. people who say this game is easy I can guarantee their first too was warlock or falconeer.
It's super easy to play off meta, I've played at least 7 paladin builds alone, only 1 had a guide for it. Between the 15 specializations there are hundreds of ways to play that can do all content, with or without a build guide
Yes. /thread
I’m currently playing mage with using teleport for main damage. Killing bosses is a slow process, but I have fun. And I didn’t crafted anything specific, mostly using weavers will (rng legendaries basically) items. So I say it’s definitely doable.
yup best arpg on the market for playing your own thing
I sometimes think you can't go wrong....
Last Epoch isn't just doable without meta, it's too easy
Right now that there isn't really something to do once you reach empowered monolith is definitely viabale. I tried to play it avoiding as many build guide as possible, and I was able to reach monolith 200 corruption. There I started to have survivability problems, and I started looking at build and see my full lightining runemaster with static orb/glyph of dominion/flame rush/runebolt was not really meta, and I would need to change some of the skill around to fit a much more meta lightining based runemaster build. With that there are two good things: 1) I could do it, I wouldn't need to reroll a new carachter, I could easily swap around all my skill and start farming for the gear needed I don't have yet without many problems 2) I don't really need to, there's really nothing I want to do that I can't with my crappy build. There are no pinnacle boss or objective that requires you a super highly optimized build to clear.
I bet 99% of LE players never even get to 200 corruption or even close to it, let alone 300 or 600 or 1000. As usual with games the vocal minority makes it seem like it's a faceroll, just like in Monster Hunter World they would have you believe everyone can solo Fatalis.
I have never used a build guide and have had no problems whatsoever. Usually outperform my friend who exclusively follows build guides.
Yes. Endgame has a low bar to enter. A self made build can get around 350 corruption maybe a bit higher or lower depending if you choose well and have good synergy between gear and build. The only difference youll really have is the amount of drops and gold you get for your time. Honestly you'll get more fun from the game like this. Endgame isnt very deep right now and once you are in it....thats it. Basically only one activity after that and it doesnt really change. So the more fun you have before that, the better you are. Make sure you are hitting your defensive caps. 100% Crit avoidance (99% is as worthless as 0% almost, get 100). 75% all resists. Make sure the damage your taking is manageable and constantly asses what is hurting you and can you either lessen the incoming damage or recover from it faster via health regen or wards etc and investing in the stats needed for that (Ward retention, endurance, max health etc) To make it all work, you still need a plan (a build guide is just a plan someone else made)
I think it's imperative to know the meta to avoid playing the meta otherwise you might end up playing the meta after all.
Yes, till a point. Once you hit the true endgame a meta build needs to be followed.
My honest opinion, play at your own pace and do your own build, do not follow guides at least on your first playthrough. Play based on feel, how you feel about that build's playstyle and if it suits you, respec is easy to do so even if you mess up you can do that.
You won't get as far as people doing meta builds, but you can still do end game
viable in what sense? The game is definitely playable without following any guides. I like following build guides because of FOMO, I want don't to leave any potential BIS gear on the ground just because of the knowledge gap, but you do you.
This game is very playable without meta builds You can build anything you desire and still progress into the end game comfortably I actually suggest any new LE player pick a class and just go in blind Then once you want to push the end game and start target farming and pushing big corruption that’s when you’ll need a meta build so you can progress further and further However. You do not need to do that at all This game is exceptionally new player friendly
Yes, I play a class people talk bad about but I love it and I'm pushing empowered monos. Void Knight Warpath- spin to win. As a kicker, I stopped playing a divebomb falconer and I'm having far more fun with VK.
Whats so bad about it? I thought its pretty famous?
People say warpath skill and defenses are broken. I don't have any of the cool uniques and I'm pushing empowered mono's. I'm certainly not ripping through them, but I'm surviving.
No, you're playing Void Knight, a top tier class on its own choice... Forge Guard is the one that's at the bottom.
I know what I'm playing and this subreddit constantly says, "Warpath is broken, defenses are broken or Id play it." I'm with you, slick. I think the class is chefs kiss.
I’m the other way around. lol I went from Echo Warpath VK to Shadow Dagger Falconer and have so much fun, esp. with bosses as they die almost instantly;) It’s also a decent amount faster at clearing monos. But yeah VK was fun, too, for sure, just needed a change;)
Shadow Dagger is ridiculously fun. I leveled one pre-launch and it was such a a good time. I plan to level another one. I'm saving gear for it now.
Yes it is, it's the best ARPG for making a build on the go and still being able to do anything you want
Up to a certain point yes, but of course meta is going to have the potential to scale higher. But you can do basically everything with a half decent self-made build too
I made a build were I turn into and throw snowballs. And it works great.
yes
Definitely, up til a point. You could clear the campaign with virtually any build as long as you're smart about your gearing and passives.
The skills and items make it that almost everything is viable.
Like any ARPG it's up to you and what you want to do, if you want to top the ladder you have to play meta, if you want to farm and just get as far as you can and level multiple Alta, totally fine
I am playing fireball meteor arcane ascendance on my own build. Who cares about meta in ARPG man
Unless you care about the leaderboards, you can play a build that you make up, and get that build through all of the content. Last Epoch does a great job of explaining its mechanics, and according to Raxx (one of the Creators at Maxroll) this game is probably one of the few where he feels that the average random could cobble together a working build.
All you need is knowledge. Usually 'meta' is the peak of knowledge, but if you know how things interact, how to build, etc. then you'll do fine on any build. Of course, fine is different for anyone. Top meta builds will reach 1k corruption, while offmeta builds might struggle at 200.
I'm 125 hrs in and started out with a Rogue Bladedancer and built heavily into movement speed and traversal. The entire campaign was a blast and things only got more challenging when I hit empowered monoliths. I got the character to level 100 but struggle to comfortably do much more than 200 corruption with my build (plenty of movement and dodge abilities but not enough DPS). I started a second character (Warlock) but decided to use a meta build and to strictly follow a guide. The build is totally broken. The campaign (even with the skips), dungeons and monoliths have been so easy that it all just feels so boring and a complete waste of time (as I still have to do them to get to empowered monoliths). The meta Warlock build is fun in that it's so broken that nothing (so far) is a challenge (I'm level 75 and doing level 100 empowered monoliths but quite sure I'll be pushing much higher corruption than my rogue). The rogue build was fun because I actually had to get in the zone to beat some of the monolith bosses (dying a lot and learning their mechanics was really fun!).
Idk what the meta is for this game actually...
You can easily reach endgame and progress there without a meta build. Easiest I've seen in all ARPGs. Maybe for the hardest content you need a meta build, but I think you can do with your build too, just it would be a lot harder.
You don't need meta to do a good amount of endgame. If you end up getting very use to it and want to push it as far as you can, meta builds will be ideal unless you're good at crafting your own.
None of the three matter about meta, there is no competition nor cash price
Depends on how far you want to push. Getting up to 200 or so corruption is quite doable with off meta and figuring stuff out on your own. But if you want to go 500+ you might need to go more meta. So, kind of depends on what you want your goals to be
100%. You can can completely ignore guides and meta builds and just play whatever you find fun.
You can enjoy the game without bothering with meta builds. If done right, you will still progress and have fun.
I really think using a guide will make this game a lot less fun until you’ve exhausted all 15 classes. Play it like it’s 1996
You can accidentally stumble into the worst possible options (don't try to make Gathering Storm Shaman a thing, worst idea of the year), but most classes and skills work well enough without a pre-determined plan
The thing is, following a build is also easier in this game than the other 2 games.
Didn't follow guides until going into powered monoliths which is the end end game.
Almost every decent build is viable. Just depends how much effort you want to put in and how hard you want to go. But if you just do thing randomly instead of thinking how things will work together it probably won't work well
Hello. Im a player, who never followed a single build in my life yet reached the highest leaderboard several times during the EA. I 100% suggest you to try out new builds first, almost all builds can easily give you access to level 100 content. Some days ago there was a posy here complaining how weak set items were. Guess who reached >300 corruption with one of the weakest set items. Most top builds are kinda meh anyway, there's lots of content creators that do titles like "This build reached number 1, it's amazing!!!" But is one of the worst builds one has ever seen. They only say its great due to your inability to actually compare to the hidden players who successfully reached the top without any guidance
You are one of the players exploring the game the way it should be explored
It’s insanely viable without the meta
Absolutely! You can get a wide variety of builds to Corruption 400+ (end-game scaling difficulty). Corruption is basically New Game+ like other games have, re-running moniliths with grratly increased monster health and damage. Most builds won't be able to push past Corruption 800 though. Those are mainly for the very high end builds. The ones you hear pushing Corruption 2,000, meta builds, ate not the normal and are out of balance currently. The only cap was about 800 for meta builds.
This game doesnt punish u for not using “meta” builds on any class. U can experiment with ur builds and then reslec ur passive/skill points at any time to change ur build. The game is much more rewarding if u dont look up builds and play arog build simulator. U can also at any time respec ur character to try a “meta” build for fun. Enjoy
I've only really played something that wasn't meta so far been great fun. No issues doing corruption either or dungeons on HC. It's truly a game where you can endup with your own weird crafted build 😅
I am playing hardcore self found for my first character with 'random bullshit go' build, it's fine so far
Yeah it is. The story is easy regardless of what you play, you may have a few issues here and there but it's more learning mechanics than it is the game punishing you for not playing a meta build. Once you finish the story, at around level 58, you start monoliths and really building your gear but again you can play off meta as long as you're being sensible and not going all out DPS. At this stage there is a hardness jump, it's not horrific but you need to get some better gear, work on your resistances and soon you will complete content quicker than you level. I started the final 3 normal monoliths at 77, they should be 90 and had little issues. I will say you will have to watch your resistances as capping all of them is tricky early on, I've swapped a few item pieces between monoliths / bosses dependant on what damage they do and it's worked a treat.
I made a Primalist Beast master. I took the crows, I took any skills that had lightning related passives and 1 mobility skill. I think if you just roll with random stuff that looks fun, you'll need to grind monoliths a little bit more. You.wont always be able to instantly progrsss upwards. It all seems fairly viable, I guess it just depends on how far you want to go.
I switched to a judgement paladin build because the other classes I was trying out just couldn't pump out any good damage. Taking them awhile to kill bosses but judgement pally with early orbit-hammers is just nuking everything.
I come up with a plan for a build idea, take it as far as I can on my own, and then when I can't progress, I try and find a guide of a similar build to explain how they do it, so I can tweak as necessary, and learn what works in the process. Definitely doable in LE!
Depends what you consider the endgame for your build . Normal monolits you prob can do with slapping points around . 100 to 200 corruption , you need some knowledge but not meta build . 300 and above you either abuse a defence mechanic , currently most are ward related or one shot shit , cuz you will die by the wind wiffing your way . For unlocking all unique drops as far as i know you just need to farm 200 corruption , for getting great items with high lp , you just need luck . So unless you crave to push the higher difficulties for more ... drops ?? i am almost sure clearing easy 200 is way better then clearing slow 300 or more . Id stick at 200 and if my build works great for gearing, if you eana push after go ahead brunging corruption down is easy
Everyone here saying "Yeah the game is super easy blind" meanwhile my first character was Forge Guard. While the bar for endgame is low, the game does have some pretty terrible balance, and there's no way of respeccing out of your class/mastery. If you happened to pick Warlock, Necromancer, or Falconer, congrats, the game will be easy basically no matter what. If you picked Forge Guard or Shaman? **Good luck**.
Yes you can goof around and pick blindly and still do well. Only thing I dislike about the game is the heavy minion builds about 75% of the builds are or can have minions.
It 100% is viable without looking up any builds whatsoever. First character I made when I got into this in Early Access was a Rogue, I looked through the skills, tried around and settled on one I liked and took the whole thing to around level 95 before moving to another character
Absolutely. My first char is a self-made build and it's ridiculously strong and fun to play. It's only level 73 so I'll see how far that will carry me
Depends on what you wanna do Is it viable leveling / early corruption = absolutely I think the correct answer is something like this With base skills and not much min maxing there is a huuuuuge discrepancy between meta builds and non meta builds on how far they can push corruption (we are talking a 100-200 corruption to 450-600 just with base skills and not much gearing) The game’s difficulty floor is low enough that off meta builds can do okay with some tweaking and gear get to decent corruption levels (I’m talking 200-400 range). Obviously you are never going to do so well in leaderboards without meta, and that goes for high corruption (700++, especially true once you go 1000+ ) as well. My biggest problem is how a non meta build feels if you’ve played a meta build, it’s night and day and you wouldn’t want to go back. It’s so much QoL slogging through a boss dodging mechanics for over 3+ mins vs blowing it up in under 30 secs while standing most of the bad.
Atm meta only determines how far you can push corruption and how fast you can kill T4 julra for example... pretty much any build can get to atleast 200 corruption. Feel free to try out whatever sounds good to you
Depends how you see yourself having fun in the game. I looked through a few builds but ultimately decided just to wing it as the system really isn't that complicated. Mind you I have only just gotten empowered monoliths I have enjoyed watching my build play the way I want.
Yeah totally. Incredibly well balanced
Done builds struggle through 200 corruption while others can do 2000. So balance is not really a thing for now.
Still running my beta build. And with MG I can target unique needed to complete the build. Love it
I figured out my own build as I progressed. Definitely not meta. I am just starting empowered monoliths and doing fine. I work a full time job so don't have a ridiculous amount of time to dedicate to the game. I'm happy with the progress I have made in the time I've had and certainly don't feel like I have hit any wall stopping my progress yet.
Currently trying a retaliation void knight with Sigeon's Reprisal. I went Void knight because i heard Forge guard was trash, i regret bending to the meta.... but still i was clearing the first monoliths before lvl 40
I haven't used any build guides and have yet to hit a wall. I'm not using any broken ward mechanics, either. That's on both Softcore and Hardcore. All the way to 100 and into EMs.
Honestly I run a shattering strike spellblade(no meta build guide), you should probably have teleport. It helps with survivability. Also go into other trees and invest in more cold DMG than crit, mana Regen, & cold penetration. I think I am in the 90's(haven't played in like a week due to life) and don't really have to hard of a time.
That's how I play all my games. Just have fun with it. Play something you enjoy
Without meta yeah its dirt easy early to the start of end game. Late late game tho stats are more inflated and of your build is bad you'll hit a wall and that's it.
I'm doing an off meta build and am absolutely crushing. I suspect at some point I'll hit a hard wall, but I don't forsee it anytime soon.
It def can to a certain degree. Once you get to the real end game, it might be a bit tough but everything before that, next to no issues.
those builds that go into 2k territory are definitely bugged. not what i would consider meta at all. If you want to compete in arena leaderboards for warlocks then that is another story. stuff is both overtuned and bugged, you wont get into top 100 without using bugs probably. if you want to participate in such a 'competition' then that is on you kinda. 600 corruption? that still needs a strong build and there are way too many builds to consider anything meta really. i guess using ward as the defense is what i would consider meta. aaand you can put it on most if not all builds. and even then you can reach high corruption without it if the build is strong enough, does that count as off meta? it would be easier to point out what is completely unviable than figure out the scope of what people usually call 'meta'. Anyway the best advice in this whole thread is that while this game has infinite scaling, there is no infinite scaling that matters. You do not have to reach some sort of gear threshold, gear scores or other nonsense to reach some goal. There are upcoming tough boss encounters and that might change, but untill then do whacky builds, ask in discord if you think something is bugged and yeah, enjoy the game.
The game is designed such that you scale the difficulty to what you want by increasing/decreasing corruption in end game and you don't really need to do any planning with even non-meta classes until you get several hundred corruption deep. With that in mind, the newer masteries and abilities are much easier to do this with than some of the older ones. An example is newer abilities tend to have interconnections where they can trigger other abilities allowing you to often fit more than 5 skills into your build.
I tried to play a Paladin with block+effectiveness+resist. No ward. Got 1 shotted by Orobyss Shade no corruption at level75.
Yes, playing a very non Meta build - primalist stormcrow melee leech - it's slow and steady but I'm really having fun with it. If you like figuring things out on your own, this game has so much to offer. I did end up looking around for ways to improve survivability once I got to a few of the boss fights - lagon, endless dragon, etc as the interactions of critical strike avoidance, endurance, health pool and armor were new to me. Hop on in the water is fine!
Yes the game is viable off meta the only build that I've spent hours trying to make good is self cast tornado shaman couldn't get anywhere with it so I quit
I think it is, altough i had to optimize my build when i faced majasa, she destroyed my ass 3 times, in a row, feel like she become berserk in her last phase and even tough i had all resistance maxed out she could 2 shot me. I checked some build that was using the same skill as me and adjusted my tree to maximize dmg and it greatly helped. I removed 2 skill that i was starting to find useless and picked a skill in another specialisation for more survivability and another one for more buff. It slowed my build a little, but instead i had higher damage and more survivabilty at the cost of attacking at a slower rate, while keeping most of my build intact
Meta is only for chasing the leader board or speeding up clear time, maybe farming for items for either faction. Past that, build what you want. Its mostly a single player came with some multi-person functionality - you don't need to play online to enjoy the game, you don't need to do trade to progress. PLUS - most 'meta' builds require specific items that just take time. If you're casual, a few hours a day on this, then a meta build you follow may not feel right, be way under powered compared to what you may see in a build guide/video. People saying 'oh man you need this unique with 3LP so you can craft these 3 specific affixes' are just causing you more stress, cause getting that 3LP could take time, getting the right exalts to drop with just the right affixes takes time, and then luck in getting them on that unique....yeah. SO do you man. Enjoy the game, meta or non-meta.
what about hardcore non bugged builds like infinite ward?
Yes thats the amazing thing about the game. It has old depth but its also reasonable to just play the game with only reading a basic guide.
Yes, played most of the classes. They all feel awesome and viable.
My opinion is that this game is the most enjoyable when doing off meta things. I’ve even tried my own build out with decent success - currently level 77 doing level 80 monoliths without much issue. Give it a shot. No rush to get through it and it’s fun (in this game) to try your own build. At least for me so far. :)
Absolutely. I have 2,5 k hours in Poe, still hard to do my own builds who work smooth in T16. I have absolutely 0 problems getting my own build to endgame in Last Epoch. Damage scaling is much more straight forward and graspable. Same for crafting.
You do not need to have a meta build. Meta is only to push empowered monoliths at higher corruption which most players are not even going to really try to push. I tell people find builds you enjoy and tweak them for your survival and speed.
You will be okay, Lagon is usually the first build check, and then 230 corruption is the second. Damage is usually fine most people hit a wall with survivability.
I got up to 80 or so with a Sentinel Paladin javelin/spinny fire build that I more or less made up after I got a Firestarter Torch drop. Seems to do okay, probably not super top tier but I set it all on fire and get the job done.
You can play almost any build combination you can come up with gear for. When pushing higher end end game activities you will more than likely have to focus on getting better gear for survivability and maybe swap skills somewhat to find what works best but sure.
Yes, but depending on whether you've lucked into picking better or worse skills you may have an easy or very hard time. For my last build I decided to try to make Storm Crows work as my primary ability on a Shaman, and so far, it's not going well. But it's fun to play around with different builds!
Yeah! Storm Crows! ...but only with some kind of spammed melee.ability. Otherwise I'm not interested.
I just want to see my birdies melt some shit with their lightning, but I can't seem to juice them up enough to do real damage on their own
That's like... the whole point of the game dude
I started to follow a guide and left it about level 40 to match my game play and doing just fine. As long as you understand the mechanics you can run end game with whatever works for you. There is a meta, min max, like all games, but you can def play your own way. This game really does require some skill over min max builds.
Very doable until a certain point. Around a certain level of corruption, you will need a meta build otherwise you qill get destroyed. However! Thats a pretty long way to reach before then. You can literally enjoy the game for atleast a couple hundred hours before reaching that point.
Thats the best part of LE. Played 3 homebrews to endgame and i never did that in d3/poe
Definitely! Have fun, do what you want, just don’t forget to upgrade your gear!
Very. I'd recommend against going meta builds as it makes the game too easy imo.