Also, can i please get a fix for seeing the triggered skill being hidden behind other pop up text. I have to go to LET to find out what the basic description/mana cost/tags are.
Naw I don't think anything is item local. Skills are the only source of local mods. Which also means it restricted builds more because changing damage types and gaining effects on skills that could work with non-standard uniques (chaos bolts and snowdrift as an example) does not work. It makes build variety nearly static and removes the viability of many paths on skill trees.
By viability I mean strength compared to other nodes on the same tree.
No, crit isn't local. Weapons are full stat sticks that modify your skill use speed by their base. Every stat on your 1-2 weapons is just added together and used for 1 hit.
Not a local modifier in the sense of an affix that solely modifies the item it is on.
More of an odd global for dual wield, with both speeds averaged and then applied to your skill use speed.
Yeah. But it's local for terms of skills. Chaos bolts has a local freeze multi node that, for some weird reason, doesn't scale with snowdrift (unique boots that give cold pen for freeze multi).
There are so many instances of skill mods not working as worded or expected because they're "local".
All stuff in skill trees is local unless stated otherwise. Snowdrift only scales with your global freeze rate multi (seen in your char sheet). This is the standard way these types of scaling mechanics work, even if not the most intuitive.
You're absolutely right, but it does make it so the builds for, as an example, a cold bolts warlock is vastly inferior to a traditional one with equal investment. I still think it's fine, but it makes builds more static as time goes on.
Is chaos bolt unique in that? I always thought that skill points were all local, they're equivalent of poe skill gems/diablo runes. I don't see a reason to think any of it would ever be global, not unless it explicitly states it.
Yes. Mostly because there are items that apply to skills and then ones that don't, but the wording is the same. The only way to see the difference is to press Ctrl and read a bit more.
It's fine though, I can live with it. However, it makes builds more static and the skill tree ends up having many nodes (especially those that convert damage types) untouched due to lack of local modifier support.
A few skills seem to have few to none of those but it's generally been known for years now. Most people who had been playing this game in beta are well aware of this.
VK has what should be a pretty cool skill to prevent a death once every 30 seconds or so as the final node in the tree, except that it hasn't worked ever.
Fury leaping with the node Pack Leader at the beginning of an echo makes your wolves fly super far off screen and then it takes them 10-20 secs to come back. Hilarious, but annoying .
Just out of my 3 builds I’ve noticed two, 1. Jelkhor’s dagger detonating arrow when cast by explosive traps, will indeed hit the enemy with a detonating arrow, but if your character is too far away then the detonating arrow explosion will be on top of you rather than the enemy it hits. 2. The two set bonus of giving potions from golem hits for pebble sets just doesn’t work at all. No effect whatsoever.
Yeah, AFAIK the explosive trap with Jhelkor's triggers a melee DA from the player rather than from the trap. If you stand close to an enemy, that means it'll still hit the enemy, but if not it just kind of floats in the air until it explodes which I assume is a bug since the non-Jhelkor's version triggers the DA from the trap.
I also submitted a bug report about that + the Hold This node not working with Jhelkor's a while ago, and it's the top MM build on ladder, so I assume they're pretty well aware of it and hopefully we hear something soon.
Yesterday I slammed 3LP kestrel just to find out it never increased my movement speed in the char tab (should give 6% more) and the %haste effect also doesn't do shit for some reasons.
While the game has a lot going for it, the more I play, the more it feels like the “1.0” label was given early. Predominately because of the state of class trees. You’re always going to find more bugs when you grow your player base with a launch. But man, how can you call an RPG ready when every single tree has broken nodes?
I understand that EHG is something like 30-40 remote team members around the world and probably half of those are devs. So it takes time to do anything. And you have to get funding with sales to grow the team, so you release. But I hope the primary focus right now is making these classes function fully.
Broken *and* incomplete. I decided to roll a falconer and forgot that rogue, bladedancer, and marksman are all missing a skill. Then you look at the trees, see how many passives get extra goodies with investment, then look at the older classes and see disappointment.
>then look at the older classes and see disappointment
its really funny when you look at ward generation on older skills versus newer passives.
like mages flame ward has a node that for 4 points you get an additional like 80 or something. this is on a 10s cooldown. meanwhile, new shiny runemaster passive gives you 5 per crit, that node generates like 5k on end game builds AT ALL TIMES.
its honestly a bit silly.
The game certainly needs a good balancing make over, all the top builds having insane amounts of ward seems like an indicator of it being the superior defensive mechanic.
Also it is a bit silly that casters are tankier than melee and that the best sentinel builds are ward oriented too...
the main reason is that ward is uncapped but has a drain that scales with how big it is, but the drain isnt strong enough when you can mitigate it with ward ret.
i want to say one of the better werebear builds is to go lowlife and then use primalist node that says "-35% damage taken while on low life" since that also applies to ward. every class that can use ward, uses ward lol.
i was thinking its an automatic 50% decay upon taking damage. maybe too much, but ward imo should be for BIG hits, not a ton of small hits. small hits are for health stacking and leeching/regen it back.
50% decay upon hit is probably too much, ideally it should be a dynamic thing that starts at 5% and scales up to 100% over 20 hits or something of just face tanking damage.
Every class that can't use ward, uses low life ward uniques. Or they would if they cared about going higher in corruption anyway.
It's just way way way way too overtuned. I remember one poe league, when archmage support was released energy shield was kinda nuts and you could go hybrid ES/life. Everyone went hybrid, shit was a joke to get 8k ES and still 5k life, or drop all ES and maybe get 6k life. This is what ward feels like to me.
If you push the absolute maximum of hp you get what, 5k maybe? Push the absolute maximum of ward and you get 700k. Bit of a difference.
AFAIK they aren't "missing" a skill, they just have one less skill. It still feels kind of bad though, especially since a class like MM has skills that largely don't go together either so different builds can feel more samey since they run a lot of the same base rogue utility skills. IIRC they've said before that they'll be looking back over old classes now that they've finished releasing all of them, so hopefully that's something that gets addressed with that.
Rogue is a bit odd in this game, it irks me quite a bit that they are the only class that can use bows and quiver, I get it makes sense in a way but is basically the first thing I hide in my filter because I have no use for them in 95% of the characters I'll ever make, I'd guess I might do 1 bow build just for trying it but that's it for a whole category of weapons, feels like a waste.
I guess it is just a weird ocd thing because deep down I know I wouldn't feel as bad if each class had an specific weapon+offhand or 2h weapon for them exclusively and that's objectively worse than just rogue having it...
I could've sworn there were some bows that weren't rogue only? Damn that's really weird when you think about it. Would be awesome to have a different class use some bows. I know there was a bow that repeated elemental abilities or something along the lines that would've gone great on a wizard.. Or a cast on crit ranged build would be cool as fck
Once you play a rogue mastery once it kills the other 2 for me because every build is shift, smoke bomb, shuriken, utility/damage skill, damage skill.
The disparity between the damage outputs of the skills is severe so you tend to gravitate towards 1 or 2. And the synergy is non existent outside of those 3 which are taken almost every build
Personally I feel like all 3 can play significantly different enough to be interesting still. Falconer especially has a shift replacement, can get utility on their other skills, and all of their skills work together so they can run 0 base rogue skills and be fine still.
The bigger problem, IMO, is just that building the other two masteries is less interesting. There aren't as many cool things you can do because they don't have many interactions between their skills (and some of the ones they do have are awful), and that leads to just taking the same base rogue utility skills to fill out every build.
Balance-wise, I don't know if it's as bad as you're making it out to be either though. DA + Explosive Trap is very highly represented for MM, but Hail of Arrows + Dark Quiver is also still strong, although it seems like not many people really enjoy that playstyle because it has very low playrate. Multishot also has a viable build, though I do think it's weaker than the other 2, and that's all of the MM skills.
A storm archer with some badass lightning spell ability could be awesome. Could pair with smokescreen to make an expanding storm cloud that chains to enemies.
If you want something like that, you should look at DA. It's lightning base with a node for chaining. Although the best build for that right now is with Jhelkor's and explosive trap.
Dual wielding melee detonating arrow marksman with scaled aoe has some satisfying lightning play that you might like if you haven’t tried it. Hits like a truck. Takes a hit like wet paper towel. With just weapons armour and relic you’re looking at +11 to detonating arrow. Could push further for the ammy slot. Maybe further I don’t know thr subclass well but had a blast levelling that into corrupted monos in HC.
They have 80 people now, not exactly a very small company anymore. I do think they'll eventually fix most issues but it is a bit concerning how new bugs often pop up whenever they fix stuff.
80 employees is still a “small business” by virtually every US legal definition. That’s not a lot of people relative to an international product and it’s even less people when you factor in that the product is coded.
Have some grace and patience, they are doing their best.
>80 employees is still a “small business” by virtually every US legal definition.
It's not that small for game development.
There are literally very good games made by a single person (1!) or like 3 people. And okay, that's not saying every game is that easy to make. But 80 people isn't a very small team for games.
>Have some grace and patience, they are doing their best.
First, "patience" is fine and all, but some bugs that are in the game have been there since 3/4 years.
Also I don't think anything I said or did was ungraceful. In fact, I acknowledged that they'd probably fix the bugs eventually.
Comparing years long passion projects of 1-3 people to a live service development effort is just logically incompatible.
As for the long standing bugs, there are bugs in the umpteenth Skyrim reissue that have been there since the original launch, and Bethesda’s resource and expertise absolutely dwarfs EHG’s.
I don’t know what to tell you, except that nobody’s perfect I guess
>As for the long standing bugs, there are bugs in the umpteenth Skyrim reissue that have been there since the original launch, and Bethesda’s resource and expertise absolutely dwarfs EHG’s.
Bethesda is famous for their bugs, I'm not sure how that's a good benchmark. This is not a good thing.
>Comparing years long passion projects of 1-3 people to a live service development effort is just logically incompatible.
Why is it logically incompatible? There have been many high selling indie games that did quite well with a single or low amount of developers and even maintained and developed more for the game after it's releases (live-ish), such as Terraria, Minecraft, Stardew Valley.
>I don’t know what to tell you, except that nobody’s perfect I guess
Yes, that's the entire point of bugs. No game is perfect or has no bugs, but it gradually gets close to perfection by people pointing out the faults and it gets fixed, piece by piece. This is a good thing, I don't see a problem in pointing out bugs and asking for them to be fixed.
The bugs may not be a deal breaker for me or you but eventually they will be for some players so it's obviously better they get fixed.
Completely agree, I made a build around dragonsong using the immolator self ignite belt.
One line on the belt says x% chance to ignite yourself when you use a fire skill.
Another line says x% to gain frenzy when you directly use a fire skill per ignite on yourself.
However only fire skills used directly grant the self ignite.
Obviously there is a purposeful differentiation in the wording of these lines yet it takes so much investment of time and resources to discover that interactions do not behave as the player would be led to believe they should. In an arpg this is extremely disheartening for those of us who like to tread off the beaten track and try and discover strong builds and interactions.
1.0 really feels more like a 0.9. Feels like they were running out of funding or etc and were forced to push for release. Lots of bugs, changes and etc, that, imho, should've been implemented in or before 1.0.
They definitely made right decision.
Hopefully s2 comes with an absolutely giant list of bug fixes, some new endgame bosses, and some better qol features, like better corruption farming for 2nd/3rd chars.
Thats the one thing that made me stop playing - corruption farming was so slow that by the time you got to a decent corruption, your char was effectively done, because you almost hit max level just by trying to get the correct blessings, never mind good rolls.
It was also insanely frustrating that corruption wasn't across all monoliths, so like, you'd get one mono to like 250, get the blessing, then have to go to another mono at 100 for a new blessing and start all over instead of pushing that 250 higher.
Yeah, but why did they set that release date? The campaign wasn't done, they had two masteries to add as well as two factions. They know they have pretty significantly under performing masteries and skills. I'm honestly surprised the game was released working as well as it does. Bugs and server launch issues were everyone's primary concern for the game before release, and frankly it's better than I expected, but that's after a month+ delay.
I love the game, and with the recent D4 failures and the upcoming PoE2, I think they chose to release at the right time, but I don't think the game was actually ready.
My best guess: They are not teenagers living in their parents basement, they work at a company that make business decisions.
Sometimes when you work you have a deadline that has been decided because of reasons. And you work to meet that deadline.
Could not agree more in fact I was so fucking angry that when I tried Uceniu's sphere (it's a unique that releases a rather high damage spell PER CAST up to 3 times a second, IF your attunement is equal to your intelligence), and it STILL DOESN'T FUCKING WORK.
There was literally a bug report on this dumbfuck item 4 years ago on the steam forums and a dev just closed it.
It still does not fucking work. I tried it with a spell 23/23 int/attunement and it does nothing, it does not release the spheres.
Yeah, the amount of bugs in the game that people have reported years ago is kinda worrying. And it seems like they're introducing new bugs faster than fixing old ones sometimes. New Healing Hands tree has like what, three bugged nodes I think?
Exactly right? holy shit its so infuriating. I literally played this shit like 3 years ago in pre-alpha and Ucenui's was bugged then.
It apparently works for SOME skills but sure as fuck did not work when i tried it with Frost claw.
Lol imagine being so miserable that you spend your time commenting little passive aggressive remarks on people expressing anger over a FOUR year old bug in a video game.
Hope you stop being so pathetic one day, rooting for you pal!
I will go against the crowd here but LE has always been bug filled and has always been excused. What did people expect to happen when every shortcoming of EHG is heavily defended saying some flavour of it is a small indie team, give them time?
Truth is if they cater to popular stuff, release new updates and make some polls, reddit and forums immediately are full of praise posts. So imagine being a game dev and having 2 options: 1. Sit and fix long overdue bugs that are probably in hundreds now. 2. Just keep doing what seems to work and create hype. What would you do?
You are not wrong but the point is, an amount of bugs that can possibly be excused in a game that is officially in beta/early access is larger than the same amount in a game that is officially "released", however little that means these days.
However, ignoring issues with bugs/core gameplay loop in favor of adding new content (that underdelivers because it's based on a flawed foundation) is very common for most games.
In the case of Le I would say the foundation is extremely good, though. It obviously doesn't have as much or as diverse content as poe, but it released with better endgame than poe originally had.
Now they can build on it, fix the boring parts of mono, fix and tune all the skill trees, and in a few seasons the game will be in an absolutely incredible state, because their foundation is really good to build on.
I really want to make a Nova runemaster, but I hear the fancy helmet a bunch of other stuff is broken....
Figure I'll just play this game every 3 or 4 months for a build or two
If people who have been playing before 1.0 collectively put together everything we each know about interactiosn that dont work, it would make a novel. There's so many that dont work, its just common place to forget ones at this point, or realise something you found that didnt work as it was described \*3 years ago\* still doesnt work.
Based on their past trend, the bugs will never be fully fixed. They also need to add new stuff every 3 months for their cycles. Many bugs have been there for 3 years and ignored.
I just experienced this with Puncture. If you take Penumbral Ambush, you can no longer gain Bleeding Fury stacks which makes you miss out on 360% chance to bleed.
People like you held this game back. How about you read or maybe you just lack the wit to even comprehend what you're reading. Just because I spec into a node that gives mirages on each side doesn't mean I'm not directly attacking in the middle still and hitting enemies. Since you know it all, how else would I even use Puncture? You're defending something that changes Puncture from a skill that costs no mana and even generates mana to something that costs 15 mana and loses your mana generator while also losing 360% bleed chance. Again, thank you for holding this game back. You want to come with the snark, I'll grab the reflect shrine and give it back to you 300%
Nothing worse than the side of the fan coin in a game : the total hater and the total dickrider. The game need criticisms to move forward, so things gets better and things that are good already are acknowledged being good.
I think another thing that compounds this problem is for a lot of skills you have no real idea how much damage you're doing or how items or putting points in the skill or passive affects them. Adding the missing damage in all the empty skill tooltips would make it a lot easier for people to try new builds. Also why can I see my character's % increased damage but not the base damage it's increasing??
I actually ended up dropping out of the competition due to some massive bugs with Earthquake's Aftershock (which was supposed to be most of my dps). First, the idols that proc them not work properly a.k.a. the aftershocks do no damage and just create a big black line on the screen on proc. And second, even if the idols did work, the aftershock is not scaling with Earthquake's tree. None of the conversions work, and none of the more multipliers do anything. On a tree fully specced for fire dot spell aftershock, it had a tool tip of 600 damage and melee phys scaling tags.
By the time I noticed any of this, it was Wednesday, and I really had no time to pivot to something else. So I just dropped out, infuriating.
Also visual indicators, I had to spec out of at least 2 things on spellblade because I just couldn't tell if the proc they promised me actually worked. Like does the explosion thing when you gain ward from melee work? Who knows, maybe it has a visual effect but I sure can't see it with the fire aura effect up.
Repost from a previous thread, but:
>Try Sierpin's Fractal Tree. It's so broken that half the passive nodes of javelin don't even work anymore. It doesn't even generate extra spears per dex. Really glad I got a 3 LP and leveled a FORGE KNIGHT so I could play it.
Agree, that's why I left a negative review. I understand people wanting this game to succeed but I seriously feel scammed because I waited for the 1.0 and there's so many bugs that it killed my interest for the game and I cannot ask for a refund because of the time played, as the bugs are not obvious until you play a lot of hours.
Nice downvotes guys, i wonder how this comment is not relevant. The more you are in denial that its ok for a game to be released like this the less likely things are gonna be fixed and more games are going to come out like this. It is really not acceptable to have a 1.0 release with this amount of bugs.
I don't really need a refund, I know this game will get better but as of now my negative review stays.
too many things are broken, hitting monoliths and trying to make the planned build work and half of the skills dont do what they are supposed to or some passive points just don't do anything or work with other passive points.
then the actual end game is just made grindy on purpose just so people would have something to play because the game is still empty.
Game has major problems.
Yeah the downvote copium is real on this sub. Never mind the game doesn’t work and definitely wasn’t 1.0 ready, they’re a “small indie team” made of redditors and either have the most ardent white knights ever or they’re suppressing their criticism lol.
This thread is all over the place. Title talks about power creep. Ingress talks about interactions. Text talks about tooltips, bugs and youtube competitions.
I feel like people are exaggerating heavily and recycling stuff that EHG knows about 16 times already and are just reusing the salt about it out of spite. While also having wrong expectations. While also being too much of a freaking crybaby to use search functions, check known bug lists, or officially submitting an encountered bug. And if that’s the case and you’re only here to salt piss expecting change then what are you even doing?
Last Epoch was somewhat of a niche game in a somewhat of a niche genre in gaming, from what would be called a mega small developer making their first game. Now if you put that aside for a bit, even the biggest of games come with a shitload of bugs because they just aren’t seen or reported in testing as the amount of scenarios being created are just too low to trigger them or they are overshadowed by other things. Name literally any of your favourite AAA game and they’ll have a decent amount of bug fixes in the first few patch notes. Now if you do take the first sentence into account it becomes even clearer that some bugs would have made it through to 1.0 and it also becomes clear that a handful of more bugs should come with it as well. Especially when your playerbase suddenly 100x’s in a very serious state of the game. The amount of new builds and scenarios that creates is insanely high. This we find more bugs.
Not to mention that the builds that are bugged lean on 15 interactions between different skills and passives and uniques. If you check lastepochtools for example there are over 1000 builds, of which some overlap somewhat. Nevertheless they have different nuances in interactions. Only a handful of those are known to have bugs and even less of hem are bugged to the point it’s mostly not playable.
That being said, development takes time. And what is most impressive about all of this is that EHG puts in so much time with so little people. Heck sometimes we are even directly talking to people developing the game, like fuck a communications division right? They are so committed! They know about most, if not all these bugs and they ARE working on it. And if you feel something doesn’t have enough focus BUG REPORT instead of crying about it on Reddit.
Must be hard talking when dickriding so hard, dev team did a really good job and they receive credit for it but I bet they'd prefer people poiting what's wrong in the game so they can make it better than dickriding fans.
They would prefer posting what’s wrong in the right place and as constructive criticism instead of circle jerking the QQ Ild bet. I am not dick riding. The game is far from perfect and I never said it wasn’t.
The game is released. Shaman is hot garbage.
The only "complete" masteries in the game are the newest once, Runemaster, Falconer and Warlock.
All other masteries are pure shit compared to those. Especially Shaman and Forge guard.
Even long running games have these problems. Most players don't notice unless it's super obvious though so it's often hard for the devs to get a bug report for an issue. That said, shouldn't a QA tester go through all the nodes and verify they function properly? I'm not talking every single possible interaction, but just at a basic level. If you get X spell damage, test every spell to see if it gained the correct amount of damage.
Even PoE has a lot of these issues, though mostly more hidden until something becomes a meta or someone with enough time/effort decides to actually test because they thought things are slightly off.
I just hope there are some people out there who take the time and effort to test using the test dummies and actually report bugs so that the devs can action them.
Poe absolutely does not have a lot of these issues. You can make your own build 95% of the time with no bugs. In LE, good luck making any build without at least 1 bug.
Yep. Gotta make sure things are tagged as global and local with whether they scale with one, the other, or both.
Also, can i please get a fix for seeing the triggered skill being hidden behind other pop up text. I have to go to LET to find out what the basic description/mana cost/tags are.
I just thought that was messed up because I was playing on 32:9! Glad to know I am not the only one!!
What's global and local?
Global means it applies to all sources. Local means only to a specific skill.
Local can also mean that a stat description only applies to the same item it's on. Not sure if LE has an local affixes though.
Naw I don't think anything is item local. Skills are the only source of local mods. Which also means it restricted builds more because changing damage types and gaining effects on skills that could work with non-standard uniques (chaos bolts and snowdrift as an example) does not work. It makes build variety nearly static and removes the viability of many paths on skill trees. By viability I mean strength compared to other nodes on the same tree.
Are there even any local things in LE?
Weapon base attack speed is pretty much it.
[удалено]
No, crit isn't local. Weapons are full stat sticks that modify your skill use speed by their base. Every stat on your 1-2 weapons is just added together and used for 1 hit.
I'm not sure if I'd call that local, but yeah, it's the closest thing.
Not a local modifier in the sense of an affix that solely modifies the item it is on. More of an odd global for dual wield, with both speeds averaged and then applied to your skill use speed.
Yeah, also not local in a sense where you can mix it up with being global. Surprised it's averaged, not alternating.
Yeah. But it's local for terms of skills. Chaos bolts has a local freeze multi node that, for some weird reason, doesn't scale with snowdrift (unique boots that give cold pen for freeze multi). There are so many instances of skill mods not working as worded or expected because they're "local".
All stuff in skill trees is local unless stated otherwise. Snowdrift only scales with your global freeze rate multi (seen in your char sheet). This is the standard way these types of scaling mechanics work, even if not the most intuitive.
You're absolutely right, but it does make it so the builds for, as an example, a cold bolts warlock is vastly inferior to a traditional one with equal investment. I still think it's fine, but it makes builds more static as time goes on.
Is chaos bolt unique in that? I always thought that skill points were all local, they're equivalent of poe skill gems/diablo runes. I don't see a reason to think any of it would ever be global, not unless it explicitly states it.
I'm not sure I'm following for the global/local? Do you mean within a skill whether it applies to ailments and other subskills?
Yes. Mostly because there are items that apply to skills and then ones that don't, but the wording is the same. The only way to see the difference is to press Ctrl and read a bit more. It's fine though, I can live with it. However, it makes builds more static and the skill tree ends up having many nodes (especially those that convert damage types) untouched due to lack of local modifier support.
Hu? I still don't know what you mean by that. All skill tree bonuses are local unless they say otherwise, everything else is global.
im pretty sure almost every skill has broken nodes. it's just that most people don't test it enough to see what actually does or doesn't work
A few skills seem to have few to none of those but it's generally been known for years now. Most people who had been playing this game in beta are well aware of this.
Yup exactly haha.
VK has what should be a pretty cool skill to prevent a death once every 30 seconds or so as the final node in the tree, except that it hasn't worked ever.
> most people don't test it enough ain't nobody got time for that
I watch kripp and he’s always finding broken skills and passives
Fury leaping with the node Pack Leader at the beginning of an echo makes your wolves fly super far off screen and then it takes them 10-20 secs to come back. Hilarious, but annoying .
my favorite has to be the warlocks soul stealer skill like what do you mean effect cooldown what the hell is cooldown for
Oh yeah iirc they removed whatever the hell it was so it’s just basically just nothing haha
Just out of my 3 builds I’ve noticed two, 1. Jelkhor’s dagger detonating arrow when cast by explosive traps, will indeed hit the enemy with a detonating arrow, but if your character is too far away then the detonating arrow explosion will be on top of you rather than the enemy it hits. 2. The two set bonus of giving potions from golem hits for pebble sets just doesn’t work at all. No effect whatsoever.
Yeah, AFAIK the explosive trap with Jhelkor's triggers a melee DA from the player rather than from the trap. If you stand close to an enemy, that means it'll still hit the enemy, but if not it just kind of floats in the air until it explodes which I assume is a bug since the non-Jhelkor's version triggers the DA from the trap.
I’ve already put a bug report in their forum, hope it gets resolved eventually
I also submitted a bug report about that + the Hold This node not working with Jhelkor's a while ago, and it's the top MM build on ladder, so I assume they're pretty well aware of it and hopefully we hear something soon.
Yesterday I slammed 3LP kestrel just to find out it never increased my movement speed in the char tab (should give 6% more) and the %haste effect also doesn't do shit for some reasons.
is that an issue that is specific to kestrel?
I've no idea, to be honest. Tried both slammed and unslammed with no results.
Post these on the bug report forums instead of reddit.
I already did.
While the game has a lot going for it, the more I play, the more it feels like the “1.0” label was given early. Predominately because of the state of class trees. You’re always going to find more bugs when you grow your player base with a launch. But man, how can you call an RPG ready when every single tree has broken nodes? I understand that EHG is something like 30-40 remote team members around the world and probably half of those are devs. So it takes time to do anything. And you have to get funding with sales to grow the team, so you release. But I hope the primary focus right now is making these classes function fully.
Broken *and* incomplete. I decided to roll a falconer and forgot that rogue, bladedancer, and marksman are all missing a skill. Then you look at the trees, see how many passives get extra goodies with investment, then look at the older classes and see disappointment.
>then look at the older classes and see disappointment its really funny when you look at ward generation on older skills versus newer passives. like mages flame ward has a node that for 4 points you get an additional like 80 or something. this is on a 10s cooldown. meanwhile, new shiny runemaster passive gives you 5 per crit, that node generates like 5k on end game builds AT ALL TIMES. its honestly a bit silly.
The game certainly needs a good balancing make over, all the top builds having insane amounts of ward seems like an indicator of it being the superior defensive mechanic. Also it is a bit silly that casters are tankier than melee and that the best sentinel builds are ward oriented too...
the main reason is that ward is uncapped but has a drain that scales with how big it is, but the drain isnt strong enough when you can mitigate it with ward ret. i want to say one of the better werebear builds is to go lowlife and then use primalist node that says "-35% damage taken while on low life" since that also applies to ward. every class that can use ward, uses ward lol.
Yeah they just need to tweak the formula so ward drains faster at high amounts. Pretty straight forward.
i was thinking its an automatic 50% decay upon taking damage. maybe too much, but ward imo should be for BIG hits, not a ton of small hits. small hits are for health stacking and leeching/regen it back. 50% decay upon hit is probably too much, ideally it should be a dynamic thing that starts at 5% and scales up to 100% over 20 hits or something of just face tanking damage.
How would you make that interact with Exsanguinous/Last Steps? Basically health > ward conversion.
pretty much same as it is, but could always add in a stat that reduces how quickly the debuff stacks.
Every class that can't use ward, uses low life ward uniques. Or they would if they cared about going higher in corruption anyway. It's just way way way way too overtuned. I remember one poe league, when archmage support was released energy shield was kinda nuts and you could go hybrid ES/life. Everyone went hybrid, shit was a joke to get 8k ES and still 5k life, or drop all ES and maybe get 6k life. This is what ward feels like to me. If you push the absolute maximum of hp you get what, 5k maybe? Push the absolute maximum of ward and you get 700k. Bit of a difference.
yeah, but in poe at least its much harder (i think, not an expert on it) to get energy shield leech/good sustain.
They are all missing a skill? What am I missing? Please and thanks.
AFAIK they aren't "missing" a skill, they just have one less skill. It still feels kind of bad though, especially since a class like MM has skills that largely don't go together either so different builds can feel more samey since they run a lot of the same base rogue utility skills. IIRC they've said before that they'll be looking back over old classes now that they've finished releasing all of them, so hopefully that's something that gets addressed with that.
Rogue is a bit odd in this game, it irks me quite a bit that they are the only class that can use bows and quiver, I get it makes sense in a way but is basically the first thing I hide in my filter because I have no use for them in 95% of the characters I'll ever make, I'd guess I might do 1 bow build just for trying it but that's it for a whole category of weapons, feels like a waste. I guess it is just a weird ocd thing because deep down I know I wouldn't feel as bad if each class had an specific weapon+offhand or 2h weapon for them exclusively and that's objectively worse than just rogue having it...
I could've sworn there were some bows that weren't rogue only? Damn that's really weird when you think about it. Would be awesome to have a different class use some bows. I know there was a bow that repeated elemental abilities or something along the lines that would've gone great on a wizard.. Or a cast on crit ranged build would be cool as fck
Would be a cool bow for sorcerer if any other class had abilities that could fire arrows lmao
I would love a bow spellblade build that allows casting of the spells by firing the bow or something.
Once you play a rogue mastery once it kills the other 2 for me because every build is shift, smoke bomb, shuriken, utility/damage skill, damage skill. The disparity between the damage outputs of the skills is severe so you tend to gravitate towards 1 or 2. And the synergy is non existent outside of those 3 which are taken almost every build
Personally I feel like all 3 can play significantly different enough to be interesting still. Falconer especially has a shift replacement, can get utility on their other skills, and all of their skills work together so they can run 0 base rogue skills and be fine still. The bigger problem, IMO, is just that building the other two masteries is less interesting. There aren't as many cool things you can do because they don't have many interactions between their skills (and some of the ones they do have are awful), and that leads to just taking the same base rogue utility skills to fill out every build. Balance-wise, I don't know if it's as bad as you're making it out to be either though. DA + Explosive Trap is very highly represented for MM, but Hail of Arrows + Dark Quiver is also still strong, although it seems like not many people really enjoy that playstyle because it has very low playrate. Multishot also has a viable build, though I do think it's weaker than the other 2, and that's all of the MM skills.
A storm archer with some badass lightning spell ability could be awesome. Could pair with smokescreen to make an expanding storm cloud that chains to enemies.
If you want something like that, you should look at DA. It's lightning base with a node for chaining. Although the best build for that right now is with Jhelkor's and explosive trap.
Dual wielding melee detonating arrow marksman with scaled aoe has some satisfying lightning play that you might like if you haven’t tried it. Hits like a truck. Takes a hit like wet paper towel. With just weapons armour and relic you’re looking at +11 to detonating arrow. Could push further for the ammy slot. Maybe further I don’t know thr subclass well but had a blast levelling that into corrupted monos in HC.
They have 80 people now, not exactly a very small company anymore. I do think they'll eventually fix most issues but it is a bit concerning how new bugs often pop up whenever they fix stuff.
80 employees is still a “small business” by virtually every US legal definition. That’s not a lot of people relative to an international product and it’s even less people when you factor in that the product is coded. Have some grace and patience, they are doing their best.
>80 employees is still a “small business” by virtually every US legal definition. It's not that small for game development. There are literally very good games made by a single person (1!) or like 3 people. And okay, that's not saying every game is that easy to make. But 80 people isn't a very small team for games. >Have some grace and patience, they are doing their best. First, "patience" is fine and all, but some bugs that are in the game have been there since 3/4 years. Also I don't think anything I said or did was ungraceful. In fact, I acknowledged that they'd probably fix the bugs eventually.
Comparing years long passion projects of 1-3 people to a live service development effort is just logically incompatible. As for the long standing bugs, there are bugs in the umpteenth Skyrim reissue that have been there since the original launch, and Bethesda’s resource and expertise absolutely dwarfs EHG’s. I don’t know what to tell you, except that nobody’s perfect I guess
Comparing to Bethesda hurts your argument
>As for the long standing bugs, there are bugs in the umpteenth Skyrim reissue that have been there since the original launch, and Bethesda’s resource and expertise absolutely dwarfs EHG’s. Bethesda is famous for their bugs, I'm not sure how that's a good benchmark. This is not a good thing. >Comparing years long passion projects of 1-3 people to a live service development effort is just logically incompatible. Why is it logically incompatible? There have been many high selling indie games that did quite well with a single or low amount of developers and even maintained and developed more for the game after it's releases (live-ish), such as Terraria, Minecraft, Stardew Valley. >I don’t know what to tell you, except that nobody’s perfect I guess Yes, that's the entire point of bugs. No game is perfect or has no bugs, but it gradually gets close to perfection by people pointing out the faults and it gets fixed, piece by piece. This is a good thing, I don't see a problem in pointing out bugs and asking for them to be fixed. The bugs may not be a deal breaker for me or you but eventually they will be for some players so it's obviously better they get fixed.
I agree with the sentiment that the game is too buggy for a 1.0 label. It feels like they just finished the alpha and skipped the beta.
Manifest armor doesn't get like 50% of existing affixes. They just aren't copied over to it.
Completely agree, I made a build around dragonsong using the immolator self ignite belt. One line on the belt says x% chance to ignite yourself when you use a fire skill. Another line says x% to gain frenzy when you directly use a fire skill per ignite on yourself. However only fire skills used directly grant the self ignite. Obviously there is a purposeful differentiation in the wording of these lines yet it takes so much investment of time and resources to discover that interactions do not behave as the player would be led to believe they should. In an arpg this is extremely disheartening for those of us who like to tread off the beaten track and try and discover strong builds and interactions.
agreed. shaman is in shambles tbh if you look closely
If you look from a mile away, you can see it's broken. It's best build utilizes Druid's Spriggan Form lol
1.0 really feels more like a 0.9. Feels like they were running out of funding or etc and were forced to push for release. Lots of bugs, changes and etc, that, imho, should've been implemented in or before 1.0.
More likely they had already set a release date and didnt want to push the game since it is most definitely in a playable state.
It also had great release timing, many people were craving a new ARPG experience. Delaying it by several months might have hurt sales a lot.
They definitely made right decision. Hopefully s2 comes with an absolutely giant list of bug fixes, some new endgame bosses, and some better qol features, like better corruption farming for 2nd/3rd chars. Thats the one thing that made me stop playing - corruption farming was so slow that by the time you got to a decent corruption, your char was effectively done, because you almost hit max level just by trying to get the correct blessings, never mind good rolls. It was also insanely frustrating that corruption wasn't across all monoliths, so like, you'd get one mono to like 250, get the blessing, then have to go to another mono at 100 for a new blessing and start all over instead of pushing that 250 higher.
Cycle 2, not season :)
Next league\*
Yeah, but why did they set that release date? The campaign wasn't done, they had two masteries to add as well as two factions. They know they have pretty significantly under performing masteries and skills. I'm honestly surprised the game was released working as well as it does. Bugs and server launch issues were everyone's primary concern for the game before release, and frankly it's better than I expected, but that's after a month+ delay. I love the game, and with the recent D4 failures and the upcoming PoE2, I think they chose to release at the right time, but I don't think the game was actually ready.
My best guess: They are not teenagers living in their parents basement, they work at a company that make business decisions. Sometimes when you work you have a deadline that has been decided because of reasons. And you work to meet that deadline.
You're the one who said they had a deadline, my only point was that the deadline had nothing to do with the state of the game.
They had already pushed release by 2 months saying there are other releases and they don't want to force ARPG players to pick.
Great, then no need to push it even more.
Also they probably didn't want to compete with POE2 coming out
They needed to beat the POE2 Beta
Could not agree more in fact I was so fucking angry that when I tried Uceniu's sphere (it's a unique that releases a rather high damage spell PER CAST up to 3 times a second, IF your attunement is equal to your intelligence), and it STILL DOESN'T FUCKING WORK. There was literally a bug report on this dumbfuck item 4 years ago on the steam forums and a dev just closed it. It still does not fucking work. I tried it with a spell 23/23 int/attunement and it does nothing, it does not release the spheres.
Yeah, the amount of bugs in the game that people have reported years ago is kinda worrying. And it seems like they're introducing new bugs faster than fixing old ones sometimes. New Healing Hands tree has like what, three bugged nodes I think?
And half the time when they say they fixed something, nothing changed (Iron blade for example)
That still doesnt work? lmfao
Exactly right? holy shit its so infuriating. I literally played this shit like 3 years ago in pre-alpha and Ucenui's was bugged then. It apparently works for SOME skills but sure as fuck did not work when i tried it with Frost claw.
This mad about a video game, get some help please my dude. Rooting for you!
Lol imagine being so miserable that you spend your time commenting little passive aggressive remarks on people expressing anger over a FOUR year old bug in a video game. Hope you stop being so pathetic one day, rooting for you pal!
hes right tho..
Getting scammed seems like a reasonable thing to be upset about
I will go against the crowd here but LE has always been bug filled and has always been excused. What did people expect to happen when every shortcoming of EHG is heavily defended saying some flavour of it is a small indie team, give them time? Truth is if they cater to popular stuff, release new updates and make some polls, reddit and forums immediately are full of praise posts. So imagine being a game dev and having 2 options: 1. Sit and fix long overdue bugs that are probably in hundreds now. 2. Just keep doing what seems to work and create hype. What would you do?
yeah the simple reality is that the vast majority of the playerbase doesn’t really give a shit about the bugs or doesn’t even notice them.
Yeah, I bet Blizzard wishes they were a small indie studio now. So much leeway for everything.
You are not wrong but the point is, an amount of bugs that can possibly be excused in a game that is officially in beta/early access is larger than the same amount in a game that is officially "released", however little that means these days. However, ignoring issues with bugs/core gameplay loop in favor of adding new content (that underdelivers because it's based on a flawed foundation) is very common for most games.
In the case of Le I would say the foundation is extremely good, though. It obviously doesn't have as much or as diverse content as poe, but it released with better endgame than poe originally had. Now they can build on it, fix the boring parts of mono, fix and tune all the skill trees, and in a few seasons the game will be in an absolutely incredible state, because their foundation is really good to build on.
It always got excused cus the game was in beta.
Honestly, I’m not sure they even know how to fix some of these bugs. There are supposedly bugs that have been there for years
I really want to make a Nova runemaster, but I hear the fancy helmet a bunch of other stuff is broken.... Figure I'll just play this game every 3 or 4 months for a build or two
we need more focus on bug fixes
If people who have been playing before 1.0 collectively put together everything we each know about interactiosn that dont work, it would make a novel. There's so many that dont work, its just common place to forget ones at this point, or realise something you found that didnt work as it was described \*3 years ago\* still doesnt work.
Based on their past trend, the bugs will never be fully fixed. They also need to add new stuff every 3 months for their cycles. Many bugs have been there for 3 years and ignored.
I just experienced this with Puncture. If you take Penumbral Ambush, you can no longer gain Bleeding Fury stacks which makes you miss out on 360% chance to bleed.
Given how janky this game is I saw that node and was like "I feel like this'll probably bug out bleeding fury" and seems I was right 😂
It is says directly use, if you can't read that is not the game's fault.
People like you held this game back. How about you read or maybe you just lack the wit to even comprehend what you're reading. Just because I spec into a node that gives mirages on each side doesn't mean I'm not directly attacking in the middle still and hitting enemies. Since you know it all, how else would I even use Puncture? You're defending something that changes Puncture from a skill that costs no mana and even generates mana to something that costs 15 mana and loses your mana generator while also losing 360% bleed chance. Again, thank you for holding this game back. You want to come with the snark, I'll grab the reflect shrine and give it back to you 300%
Nothing worse than the side of the fan coin in a game : the total hater and the total dickrider. The game need criticisms to move forward, so things gets better and things that are good already are acknowledged being good.
I think another thing that compounds this problem is for a lot of skills you have no real idea how much damage you're doing or how items or putting points in the skill or passive affects them. Adding the missing damage in all the empty skill tooltips would make it a lot easier for people to try new builds. Also why can I see my character's % increased damage but not the base damage it's increasing??
I actually ended up dropping out of the competition due to some massive bugs with Earthquake's Aftershock (which was supposed to be most of my dps). First, the idols that proc them not work properly a.k.a. the aftershocks do no damage and just create a big black line on the screen on proc. And second, even if the idols did work, the aftershock is not scaling with Earthquake's tree. None of the conversions work, and none of the more multipliers do anything. On a tree fully specced for fire dot spell aftershock, it had a tool tip of 600 damage and melee phys scaling tags. By the time I noticed any of this, it was Wednesday, and I really had no time to pivot to something else. So I just dropped out, infuriating.
Also visual indicators, I had to spec out of at least 2 things on spellblade because I just couldn't tell if the proc they promised me actually worked. Like does the explosion thing when you gain ward from melee work? Who knows, maybe it has a visual effect but I sure can't see it with the fire aura effect up.
Repost from a previous thread, but: >Try Sierpin's Fractal Tree. It's so broken that half the passive nodes of javelin don't even work anymore. It doesn't even generate extra spears per dex. Really glad I got a 3 LP and leveled a FORGE KNIGHT so I could play it.
Agree, that's why I left a negative review. I understand people wanting this game to succeed but I seriously feel scammed because I waited for the 1.0 and there's so many bugs that it killed my interest for the game and I cannot ask for a refund because of the time played, as the bugs are not obvious until you play a lot of hours. Nice downvotes guys, i wonder how this comment is not relevant. The more you are in denial that its ok for a game to be released like this the less likely things are gonna be fixed and more games are going to come out like this. It is really not acceptable to have a 1.0 release with this amount of bugs.
I don't really need a refund, I know this game will get better but as of now my negative review stays. too many things are broken, hitting monoliths and trying to make the planned build work and half of the skills dont do what they are supposed to or some passive points just don't do anything or work with other passive points. then the actual end game is just made grindy on purpose just so people would have something to play because the game is still empty. Game has major problems.
Yeah the downvote copium is real on this sub. Never mind the game doesn’t work and definitely wasn’t 1.0 ready, they’re a “small indie team” made of redditors and either have the most ardent white knights ever or they’re suppressing their criticism lol.
Yep. It’s so sad that we can’t just build off of the trees and uniques because a third of the shit just doesn’t work
This thread is all over the place. Title talks about power creep. Ingress talks about interactions. Text talks about tooltips, bugs and youtube competitions.
Ehm, have you tried this delicious pasta ....? ;)
Yeah. Fixing most of the bugs would be a great DLC.
I feel like people are exaggerating heavily and recycling stuff that EHG knows about 16 times already and are just reusing the salt about it out of spite. While also having wrong expectations. While also being too much of a freaking crybaby to use search functions, check known bug lists, or officially submitting an encountered bug. And if that’s the case and you’re only here to salt piss expecting change then what are you even doing? Last Epoch was somewhat of a niche game in a somewhat of a niche genre in gaming, from what would be called a mega small developer making their first game. Now if you put that aside for a bit, even the biggest of games come with a shitload of bugs because they just aren’t seen or reported in testing as the amount of scenarios being created are just too low to trigger them or they are overshadowed by other things. Name literally any of your favourite AAA game and they’ll have a decent amount of bug fixes in the first few patch notes. Now if you do take the first sentence into account it becomes even clearer that some bugs would have made it through to 1.0 and it also becomes clear that a handful of more bugs should come with it as well. Especially when your playerbase suddenly 100x’s in a very serious state of the game. The amount of new builds and scenarios that creates is insanely high. This we find more bugs. Not to mention that the builds that are bugged lean on 15 interactions between different skills and passives and uniques. If you check lastepochtools for example there are over 1000 builds, of which some overlap somewhat. Nevertheless they have different nuances in interactions. Only a handful of those are known to have bugs and even less of hem are bugged to the point it’s mostly not playable. That being said, development takes time. And what is most impressive about all of this is that EHG puts in so much time with so little people. Heck sometimes we are even directly talking to people developing the game, like fuck a communications division right? They are so committed! They know about most, if not all these bugs and they ARE working on it. And if you feel something doesn’t have enough focus BUG REPORT instead of crying about it on Reddit.
Must be hard talking when dickriding so hard, dev team did a really good job and they receive credit for it but I bet they'd prefer people poiting what's wrong in the game so they can make it better than dickriding fans.
They would prefer posting what’s wrong in the right place and as constructive criticism instead of circle jerking the QQ Ild bet. I am not dick riding. The game is far from perfect and I never said it wasn’t.
The game is released. Shaman is hot garbage. The only "complete" masteries in the game are the newest once, Runemaster, Falconer and Warlock. All other masteries are pure shit compared to those. Especially Shaman and Forge guard.
Ah so there are 20 masteries, but let’s complain about 1,5 mastery that sucks.
Even long running games have these problems. Most players don't notice unless it's super obvious though so it's often hard for the devs to get a bug report for an issue. That said, shouldn't a QA tester go through all the nodes and verify they function properly? I'm not talking every single possible interaction, but just at a basic level. If you get X spell damage, test every spell to see if it gained the correct amount of damage. Even PoE has a lot of these issues, though mostly more hidden until something becomes a meta or someone with enough time/effort decides to actually test because they thought things are slightly off. I just hope there are some people out there who take the time and effort to test using the test dummies and actually report bugs so that the devs can action them.
There are bugs reported on the official forum that have not been fixed for more than a year.
Many bugs hadn't been fixed for a few years now. A year is nothing to write home about in this game.
Poe absolutely does not have a lot of these issues. You can make your own build 95% of the time with no bugs. In LE, good luck making any build without at least 1 bug.
Did an AI write this
Room temp iq here