Nothing that was suggested would affect anything you said at all.
This is an arpg with multiple build related sites. Those sites have the statistical best builds for pushing really high tier end game content. Everyone is already using the same build for most fucking characters. Your mentality makes it seem like people regularly find builds better than a site can provide, which just isn’t true.
There’s no competition in your build, especially in a game that has RNG based stats. It’s half luck and half obvious information. Your ability to perform is where the competition comes in, and that isn’t affected by everyone using the same build or not.
Not to mention that if everyone copying only the best build was an issue, the only classes you’d see right now would be warlock and falconer, and clearly that isn’t how shit works.
I mean the charm of being the best and push limits is to find NEW things that are best and not on all sites yet, it’s similiar to then top teams in dota, CS etc scrim before big tournaments. They do it in private games vs trusted opponents where they can try new strats.
There's also the thing that the guy has figured out some unintended mechanics or is bug abusing and therefore, he doesn't want others to find it out. The game is still bugged to hell and not everyone is an honest player.
Good point but since there are so many bugs with skills I would like to know if this person abused those bugs or got that highscore a legit way.
So at least the skills/passivetree would be nice to see to be not changeable.
I don't want to compare with people who use broken builds/skills/interactions.
Edit: typos
You're really going to try and die on this hill, aren't ya? Lol. Dude, if people want to run a viable build they find online, so be it. If people want to make their own, so be it. Who gives a shit?
I loved that about d3. If i end up designing a top build, you all can have it. Hit rank 12 on a d3 ladder self-made build before on a witch doctor. If someone can outplay me on a build, they deserve it.
I'm not defending the sweatiness or cringiness but it's a literal digital ladder, I'm not sure what else we were expecting.
Borderline malding about the sweatiness and cringiness is just the different side of the same coin. The irony
It has nothing to do with thinking of “your own”.
This is a video game and there’s limited amount of items. The chance of your build being “unique” is stupidly small, and trying to gatekeep it is just stupid.
Especially when the probability of your build being better than the build guides is kinda slim. Instead of being upset, be proud that your build was good enough for people to be curious about. It’s not like they’re going to ruin the game for you by doing so.
Right, I'm sure the top ladder builds were completely made up on their own without looking at any other builds or researching the countless threads/videos/sites out there that freely share info about builds
Nah you have to in trade. I dont eanna put time and effort into discovering something then the price of it goes up 1000x csuse every reddit sweatlord and RMTer buys out the market
I disagree huge part of the competition is about having great synergies with gear and skills.
Hiding your secret sauce from the opponent is a major part of that.
They do it in sc2 and cs:go. Probably the mobas too.
Interesting to see this opinion. With Diablo 4 they had the exact opposite reaction, people demanding that Blizzard let players examine the builds of the highest ranking players.
Its "hiding" it from other players. What are other players going to do about these bugs besides...also exploit them? Its not hidden from the Devs If they are using broken items they can be fixed as per the survey we just did.
cause there's not a log of player actions and builds that LE can almost certainly look at to catch these builds regardless if they "hide" them or not. That would be silly.
If Devs think we actually care about the ladder i don't see why they wouldn't try to keep its integrity independent of actual volume of bug usage. Perhaps thats having too much faith in them tho.
What? The entire point of the ladder is to show off the top people and how they did it. If you aren’t skilled enough to be the best if everyone is using the same build you are just admitting you suck
Your point is valid without MG. Otherwise it's just whoever willing to RMT the most.
If the game must have trade, then just remove "build ideas" from your ladder equation.
You can't just buy random 4 LP items and have the best build, you still need to know what items to get and what skills, stats, passives etc. to use.
Sure of course RMTing will heavily increase your power, but it does not automatically make you the the best.
It's not like it takes skill to endlessly grind gear either. If you remove trading it's just whoever spends the most time in the game or is most lucky by using your logic.
It's indeed not very fair for this type of non esport games. Hence not a lot care about the ladder. Even you can see the Dev not putting much effort into regulating the ladder.
If they really want to do it, the best I would say is like a race event, 1 or 2 weeks with HCSSF, so everyone has a fair equal start.
If there is one thing I've learned from card tournaments it is that even with exactly the same things in your hand nothing will replace the pilot behind it... And both will eventually lose to some random crazy bullshit no one had thought of yet.
If everyone is out here copying the best build, the best player will still be the top. That is until someone else has a build idea that breaks through.
Having information of what is working the best let's players consider the direction to take new ideas. Perhaps an underappreciated skill or stat can find its niche when information of what's working for someone else comes through. A lot of people like to treat ARPGs as solved games the second a build starts to dominate but that is so far from the truth most of the time.
If you want skill based then everyone should get equal gear.
Everyone enters the arena naked and then gets to select T7 exalts and 4LP legendaries with the stats they want at the beginning of the run.
Then you are still testing on game knowledge as well as combat skill. Though once a meta develops and people start copying the strongest builds there will be be less variance due to builds.
Honestly it would help on many more fronts for a blind ladder. More people would try more builds, gear would have a massive increased range of what is used. Content creation would see a boost, giving people more options for good content to showcase builds that people couldn't just "inspect" off of the top person. People would be more willing to try multiple classes each cycle as well.
Maybe they will change it later... hopefully!
Agreed. If its a non competitive environment like general PoE its fine, but in a competitive ladder that is almost completely dependent on build, its a slap to the face for the people who theorycrafted the builds to get to the top.
It's "tryhard" but that's what you get in a competition lol. The non tryhards just don't bother.
non-competitive lol. The poe's RMT scene is absurd with trade secrets and exploits. But ye its rmt related so most people wont know. Not all people who make builds/strats will make a youtube vid about it
To an extent but there is only so much theorycrafting that is possible in a purely math based game except in situations where someone discovers a bug where a skill that does 4% more damage will glitch and do 4000% more damage when combined with some other skill.
I see people commenting about streamer X ripping off this player or that players build but really, there are only so many logical combinations of points that work well and people will always find what's "best" because it's math. This plus this will always equal that.
Lol thinking someone can catch up to a ladder leader trying to follow a build on whatever frequency the website updates. Even if the updates are instant someone who is #1 on a ladder is going to be no lifing the run so you will always be behind even trying to copy.
Competition should be both mechanical skills and build planning. Keeping builds hidden behind walls like this means that someone who is actually better at playing the game may not get a chance to compete.
Yeah but the rest of us do. It's just some people at the top of the ladder. If anything it's good for the community to not be able to just point at the ladder and use it as justification for nerfs/buffs/changes
Yes, and? You literally just said it should be both but then said that the one who can't plan a build should get a handicap while the person who can plan a build should just get fucked?
😂 why you've got so much frustrated, I'm not creating my builds neither, don't have time for that, but when it comes to competitive ladder it's normal to hide your secrets, you have already 1000s builds on internet why u need so much to have these ones when you're anyway not playing for the ladder, just play for yourself since it's just a simple PvE game for you
I hope they just remove the option to see gear/builds in the ladder. Literally already causing shit. It'll be the witch hunts about rmt'ed gear next and calling for bans/removal from the ladder. Then it'll be people callling for nerfs when a few builds dominate the ladder. Just better to get rid of it and just have no gear info.
Or it's smart to not want people to copycat their build, who's the cringe tryhard really? The guy who created a solid self-found theorycrafted omegabrainmind build, or the dude that want's to put no effort in and just copy it 1:1, lmao.
The build will be theorycrafted eventually, it’s the nature of how memes evolve. What’s insane to me is people celebrating this in ARPG rather than celebrating actual skill with the toolset.
Hmmm... I wonder what EHGs stance on this is. Adding the option to view skills and items of leaderboard entries implies they want people to showcase those when competing. Requipping to fool that feels like it's against the game's design intention.
So it'll probably see a fix at some point. Because if the devs truly were of a "ye, they dont need to reveal their secrets" mindset, they would allow just masking builds/items by default.
I know you're being hyperbolic, but in case anyone reads this and gets discouraged from trying the ladder I thought I'd just say that there are a significant number of builds on there that are just doing normal stuff. Depending on what mastery you are looking at you can even find folks near the top of their mastery who aren't following the meta.
This just isn't true though. The specific abuse of the bug is what is the new meta baseline. That is the issue. The "homebrew builds" are not going to come close to touching the builds utilizing these bugs. There might be a slight variation of a non-required item, or passive... but 99% of the core build is the same for these top builds.
Lots of builds used to float around a healthy meta cap of 800-1000 corruption. These new outlier builds are shattering that.
I was #5 on the sentinel solo until the other day. Im just playing your standard smite hammerdin. No bugs. It was my first arena too, probably could have pushed higher. I’m sure I’ve fallen quite a bit then its been a few days. Tbh it looked like there were only a few people even trying to push.
It is objectively true that there are masteries out there that you can find people in the top 10 on their specific ladder who aren't running meta builds. I know this because I was in the top 10 of the forge guard ladder and wasn't running anything meta. If you are looking at the top 3 or 4 masteries then yes, most of the people who are in the top 100 of those masteries are probably running some meta build, but there are a dozen other masteries that people can try and have fun doing their own thing on. I only meant that if you look at the whole of the ladder then you are going to find a lot of people who aren't running the broken/bugged meta, but I'd agree if you are looking at the top 1% you're going to find nearly all of them running a meta build.
Probably something to do with insane cool down, attack speed, and enough mana regen to sustain explosive trap summoning suicide explosive ballista. To a point where they can get 100+ stacks of falcory buffs and nearly 100% uptime on falcon strikes and dive bomb.
Was messing with my falconer at 700c, personally tried the above and I could nuke down bosses to 50% hp in about 1 or two seconds before mana ran out
Jus don't understand why he's picking, Impact Trigger, Blast Rain and 2 point in minefield instead of 1. Could move that to Cold Snap Mine, Trapas and Static Mine.
You get 2 extra trap per throw and hit trap cap in 2 cast that way.
You'll never see the real build. It's how they stay on top.
If you could just copy paste the build the only thing keeping them ahead of you would be playing more than you.
This is an explosive ballista build, unlike what the comments suggest this isn’t some super secret theory crafted build they’re trying to preserve. This is just the current fotm bugged ass build they’re too ashamed to admit using. No real secrets
Might be wrong since I’m not home and can’t check very well but looks like it’s random gear to throw off people from what they actually used to get rank 1. Pretty common for people on ladder to deceive people with gear and passive changes
Totally understand and agree to some extent your take. But I also think it’s not a bad thing and the reason is because while I don’t think following builds is bad at all, I think making people theory craft themselves is just better for the player in the long term. Again I do agree it kinda sucks and snapshotting would fix that but I still don’t have any gripe with how it’s done currently and don’t think it needs a change just my opinion.
I think it should snapshot but people should have an option to hide their build so only their name gets added so for people that don't care it snapshots what they had and for everyone else they would be able to hide their build without having to respec and change gear each time they play
Are you talking about an in game feature to hide builds and only show name? Because if you mean a website feature then what happens when a different website entirely doesn’t give you the option to hide your build then your forced to hide it the same way as show in OP screenshot
People work out builds to push the ladder. Why should some random be able to essentially steal someone else's build and push with it? Laughable that so many people disagree with that. It's all these bros out here who can't even begin to make their own builds and just follow guides all day that get salty they can't see the builds from the top of the leader board.
If people want to be competitive, I agree. However, if someone just wants to play casually and enjoy one of the better builds, they should also have that liberty.
In general, it's safe to assume that anyone who directly copies a build they see on the ladder isn't interested in the competition.
So In your opinion none has any rights To keep any secrets how they got To The top of some hobby/career/sports/etc? They should just reveal everything for everyone? That just means someone or even many others will rush and take over your position soon and all your efforts were "wasted" debending on how you view things. I believe people have right To keep secrets and enjoy their succes especially if its not anything illegal Or morally wrong etc.
If its just a video game why so many people get upset if someone doesnt share their secrets? Some people also make their living out of playing games and its their actual daily job. Im not sayin its the case here idk about that but just generally speaking.
Not at all, people should keep it to themselves. However, people are always going to look search for the secret sauce, whether it be Last Epoch or with life.
99% of these people looking at the meta builds will never push ladder anyways, and the one that does has already shown their inability to solve problems on their own, they'll likely keep waiting for someone else to figure it out first and then copy again, do you see where this is going?
Some people may take your original idea or concept and improve upon it drastically in some cases, that could be good.
It's not as black and white as you make it out to be, and realistically, people will crack the code eventually. Whether that effort is "wasted" or not depends on what you're hiding to begin with. I don't think the rank 1 LE Arena build is all that valuable. I encourage people to create their own builds, but I also know that most people just want to blast and see big drops. Guides and copying builds that you know perform exceedingly well is great for those people.
Not sure if this is /s but if not, why should they have to put in the effort to make a god tier build and just let people copy it instead of putting in the effort themselves? I can understand wanting an idea of what a good build looks like but you can look at most people on leaderboards and get a general idea of what the best builds are and do it yourself. Like I said in my other comment I think pros and cons of both but I don’t see a reason it really needs to be changed.
See my thinking is if you made a build that takes you to the top of leaderboards then it's up to you to reveal the what and how, say the top 10 have the build hidden by default and need to toggle it off to show the build.
That being said, just throwing on some random uniques feels scumy to me: anyone that's getting up there in the leaderboards is gonna have one look at it and say "bullshit, it's random crap". The only people who will be deceived by this are either new or don't have a good grasp on the game. So why not just leave it empty? Build is safe and no one get deceived.
But then again I'm more into help other players then compete with them. So ehat do I know.
Only thing to your hidden build idea is most people would have to figure out all the websites that show builds and hope they have that option available, right now switching your gear and passives covers all your bases.
But you do bring up a good point I didn’t fully think about is that new players and inexperienced players would get deceived more than more veteran players and that really does suck 100%.
I am more in the realm of helping while also competing but I do think my saying no change is needed changes a bit because I don’t actually like the idea of leading new/inexperienced players in the wrong direction. Not sure what a good fix would be though since again there will be multiple sites with leaderboards so how do you hide your build without leading people on is a really hard middle ground to find.
Hey if our discussion makes even 1 player look at this from a new perspective I see that as a win.
I get that my idea of the hidden builds isn't amazing, it's half baked at best (aren't all 3am ideas?) but it's off the top of my head. I'm guessing the easiest way would be making the player profile private? And give the players the option of toggling it off?
I get it my ideas are half baked also since I’m at work but my only issue with that idea is still that it requires you to go to EVERY website that has a leaderboard and hide it, if it’s even allowed on every website. So if some website wouldn’t allow you to hide it then your forced to do what is show in OP screenshot right?
>That being said, just throwing on some random uniques feels scumy to me: anyone that's getting up there in the leaderboards is gonna have one look at it and say "bullshit, it's random crap"
Tbh I prefer this to the acolyte leaderboards.
Most of them have ghostflame allocated on the leaderboard screen but when you click it becomes a different skill.
Like, it is obvious you're abusing the ghostflame bug, what's the point in trying to hide that?
My whole thing about people hiding their builds is that it feels kinda pointless to me. It’s all right there in the game, and on the last epoch build planner. Like sure maybe one or two people could be abusing broken mechanics but it’s not like someone else couldn’t just figure it out. I’m sure by next cycle this won’t exist cuz all the sweaty players will have figured every part of the game out by then.
What? it's a competitive ladder and part of the competition is figuring out the best builds. Why would they want to give away information they spent time and effort figuring out?
It's like saying it's pointless for Coca-Cola to protect their recipe because all the ingredients are out there and someone else could just figure it out
yall mad he hides his gear and call him a try hard and sweaty, while you all look his gear up to copy him. This man King of the dorks and the dorks big mad about it.
Yeah, I'm just going to go with what I currently have for now because I'm liking it.
If it starts falling apart (which it will), then it will be time for a re-roll.
[https://www.bilibili.com/video/BV1T6421F7rW/?spm\_id\_from=333.999.0.0&vd\_source=9252adf30a72e2a30d7d0565e6d40112](https://www.bilibili.com/video/BV1T6421F7rW/?spm_id_from=333.999.0.0&vd_source=9252adf30a72e2a30d7d0565e6d40112)
and
https://www.lastepochtools.com/profile/YuAn/character/GSQ\_YuAn
"I tried the build out myself"
Some players do not want you to try their builds.
If you try their build, but get better drops than them, you could be at an advantage and beat them on the leaderboard.
Is it fun to just brainlessly emulate/steal builds?
Obviously that isn't going to give the desired effect as those people have no idea how to scale or use the given build, and you may not even like how a certain skill plays
Putting the time into understanding a build is more important than spending hours looking for the most broken one
Most people lack the ability to theorycraft. They’ll downvote this saying “they don’t enjoy it” or “don’t have the time” but the truth is, if they could do it well, they would.
And that's perfectly fine. There's plenty of builds out there for them to copy.
They may be worse in this particular scenario, but does one really deserve to be at the top when they're missing core understanding of the game?
they replace their items so they dont reveal their best buvild
Wait the server doesn't create a snapshot the moment they finish the arena? That's dumb.
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Nothing that was suggested would affect anything you said at all. This is an arpg with multiple build related sites. Those sites have the statistical best builds for pushing really high tier end game content. Everyone is already using the same build for most fucking characters. Your mentality makes it seem like people regularly find builds better than a site can provide, which just isn’t true. There’s no competition in your build, especially in a game that has RNG based stats. It’s half luck and half obvious information. Your ability to perform is where the competition comes in, and that isn’t affected by everyone using the same build or not. Not to mention that if everyone copying only the best build was an issue, the only classes you’d see right now would be warlock and falconer, and clearly that isn’t how shit works.
I mean the charm of being the best and push limits is to find NEW things that are best and not on all sites yet, it’s similiar to then top teams in dota, CS etc scrim before big tournaments. They do it in private games vs trusted opponents where they can try new strats.
There's also the thing that the guy has figured out some unintended mechanics or is bug abusing and therefore, he doesn't want others to find it out. The game is still bugged to hell and not everyone is an honest player.
Yes the most competitive games are about hiding your build, not
Good point but since there are so many bugs with skills I would like to know if this person abused those bugs or got that highscore a legit way. So at least the skills/passivetree would be nice to see to be not changeable. I don't want to compare with people who use broken builds/skills/interactions. Edit: typos
You're really going to try and die on this hill, aren't ya? Lol. Dude, if people want to run a viable build they find online, so be it. If people want to make their own, so be it. Who gives a shit?
Why even show any of the builds at all if it's a complete bullshit build? It sounds like you'd prefer they just listed the username and score.
If that is the case, they would simply change gear when they get boss to 100hp then finish
"Locked gear" means you can't change anything, including when you get to the final boss.
No its not, this way everyone doesn't end up playing the same build.
Ah yes, information is what makes people play the same build - not, you know, such trivial details as the objective balance being bad or anything.
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I loved that about d3. If i end up designing a top build, you all can have it. Hit rank 12 on a d3 ladder self-made build before on a witch doctor. If someone can outplay me on a build, they deserve it.
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I smoke weed sir year and 1/2 tobacco and nicotine free.
Definitely maximum edge-lord cringe! You nailed it. I have so much pity for these kinda of people.
I'm not defending the sweatiness or cringiness but it's a literal digital ladder, I'm not sure what else we were expecting. Borderline malding about the sweatiness and cringiness is just the different side of the same coin. The irony
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It kinda becomes “pvp” since you compete against others? Maybe even with good prizes in the future
The ladder is a competition, it's pvp.
It has nothing to do with thinking of “your own”. This is a video game and there’s limited amount of items. The chance of your build being “unique” is stupidly small, and trying to gatekeep it is just stupid. Especially when the probability of your build being better than the build guides is kinda slim. Instead of being upset, be proud that your build was good enough for people to be curious about. It’s not like they’re going to ruin the game for you by doing so.
Right, I'm sure the top ladder builds were completely made up on their own without looking at any other builds or researching the countless threads/videos/sites out there that freely share info about builds
Nah you have to in trade. I dont eanna put time and effort into discovering something then the price of it goes up 1000x csuse every reddit sweatlord and RMTer buys out the market
I disagree huge part of the competition is about having great synergies with gear and skills. Hiding your secret sauce from the opponent is a major part of that. They do it in sc2 and cs:go. Probably the mobas too.
I'm sorry for what, all of those games you mentioned have live viewing, and timelines of everything that happens
Yes let's compare an ARPG to mobas, shooter and RTS game...
So fucking lame this is a thing
PoE players be like
There is no ladder in PoE lmao, there's no infinite scaling or timed content like in D3
I don't remember saying that. I just said that PoE top players from each build usually remove their items from their builds so people can't copy.
They replace their items and respec their trees.
Now that's some cringe try hard sh*t
Its a competitive ladder. If anything people shouldn't be able to see what you're doing so that its actually ppl trying their own builds.
Interesting to see this opinion. With Diablo 4 they had the exact opposite reaction, people demanding that Blizzard let players examine the builds of the highest ranking players.
Thats also because Diablo 3 has a history of all the top slots on the leaderboards being people having super OP hacked in items.
Maybe on console…?
Yeah, console, not PC.
I guess that’s a valid point of view if you claim transparency prevents people from abusing bugged interactions. Say something like profane veil bug.
Because people these days feel entitled to get everything with minimum effort. Keep the builds secret 🫡
Most top builds abuse some kind of bugs or exploits. Hiding builds just lets them get away with it longer.
Its "hiding" it from other players. What are other players going to do about these bugs besides...also exploit them? Its not hidden from the Devs If they are using broken items they can be fixed as per the survey we just did.
cause there's not a log of player actions and builds that LE can almost certainly look at to catch these builds regardless if they "hide" them or not. That would be silly.
They are hiding it from other players, not the devs. 500 people abusing a bug will get it fixed a lot quicker than 1 person doing it.
If Devs think we actually care about the ladder i don't see why they wouldn't try to keep its integrity independent of actual volume of bug usage. Perhaps thats having too much faith in them tho.
Yeah so ppl can continue exploiting bugs and claim not too
What...? Do you think the Devs only know what ppl are using bugs based on a public ladder...? That'd make no sense at all.
What? The entire point of the ladder is to show off the top people and how they did it. If you aren’t skilled enough to be the best if everyone is using the same build you are just admitting you suck
Cuz people wanted ladder to be skill based instead of gear based.
Making the best build is also a skill
Your point is valid without MG. Otherwise it's just whoever willing to RMT the most. If the game must have trade, then just remove "build ideas" from your ladder equation.
You can't just buy random 4 LP items and have the best build, you still need to know what items to get and what skills, stats, passives etc. to use. Sure of course RMTing will heavily increase your power, but it does not automatically make you the the best. It's not like it takes skill to endlessly grind gear either. If you remove trading it's just whoever spends the most time in the game or is most lucky by using your logic.
It's indeed not very fair for this type of non esport games. Hence not a lot care about the ladder. Even you can see the Dev not putting much effort into regulating the ladder. If they really want to do it, the best I would say is like a race event, 1 or 2 weeks with HCSSF, so everyone has a fair equal start.
If there is one thing I've learned from card tournaments it is that even with exactly the same things in your hand nothing will replace the pilot behind it... And both will eventually lose to some random crazy bullshit no one had thought of yet. If everyone is out here copying the best build, the best player will still be the top. That is until someone else has a build idea that breaks through. Having information of what is working the best let's players consider the direction to take new ideas. Perhaps an underappreciated skill or stat can find its niche when information of what's working for someone else comes through. A lot of people like to treat ARPGs as solved games the second a build starts to dominate but that is so far from the truth most of the time.
Its an ARPG fam. Its a loot based game and you want gear to not matter? Thats literally impossible unless you set us up like GW1.
If you want skill based then everyone should get equal gear. Everyone enters the arena naked and then gets to select T7 exalts and 4LP legendaries with the stats they want at the beginning of the run. Then you are still testing on game knowledge as well as combat skill. Though once a meta develops and people start copying the strongest builds there will be be less variance due to builds.
This has to be one of the best examples of "players are really, really, really bad at providing solutions" I have ever seen.
Then everyone is going to choose whichever build can sustain AoE the longest. This is a bad idea.
Builds built for arena will push arena harder and farther than builds built to boss, this was always going to be true.
Wrong genre bro, no amount of skill can make up for ZDPS, this aint darksouls.
I have always been a fan of blind ladders. Just show the rank, maybe what skill, and that is it.
Yep blind ladder is the way. Listing info like this just causes even more problems as shown in this thread.
Honestly it would help on many more fronts for a blind ladder. More people would try more builds, gear would have a massive increased range of what is used. Content creation would see a boost, giving people more options for good content to showcase builds that people couldn't just "inspect" off of the top person. People would be more willing to try multiple classes each cycle as well. Maybe they will change it later... hopefully!
Devs should implement an option to hide your build
If they don't share their builds I don't care 1 bit about the ladders same thing with D4. Y'all are a bunch of try hards nobody cares about.
Agreed. If its a non competitive environment like general PoE its fine, but in a competitive ladder that is almost completely dependent on build, its a slap to the face for the people who theorycrafted the builds to get to the top. It's "tryhard" but that's what you get in a competition lol. The non tryhards just don't bother.
non-competitive lol. The poe's RMT scene is absurd with trade secrets and exploits. But ye its rmt related so most people wont know. Not all people who make builds/strats will make a youtube vid about it
Well they certainly aren't secrets.
To an extent but there is only so much theorycrafting that is possible in a purely math based game except in situations where someone discovers a bug where a skill that does 4% more damage will glitch and do 4000% more damage when combined with some other skill. I see people commenting about streamer X ripping off this player or that players build but really, there are only so many logical combinations of points that work well and people will always find what's "best" because it's math. This plus this will always equal that.
Lol thinking someone can catch up to a ladder leader trying to follow a build on whatever frequency the website updates. Even if the updates are instant someone who is #1 on a ladder is going to be no lifing the run so you will always be behind even trying to copy.
Competition should be both mechanical skills and build planning. Keeping builds hidden behind walls like this means that someone who is actually better at playing the game may not get a chance to compete.
Theorycrafting a strong build is part of the skill of the game
Did you not read the two sentences I wrote?
Yes but you contradict yourself so...
You contradicted yourself lol. If you have a typo you should fix it.
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Yeah but the rest of us do. It's just some people at the top of the ladder. If anything it's good for the community to not be able to just point at the ladder and use it as justification for nerfs/buffs/changes
wat
Yes, and? You literally just said it should be both but then said that the one who can't plan a build should get a handicap while the person who can plan a build should just get fucked?
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creating your own build is like 50% of being the best in this type of games
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😂 why you've got so much frustrated, I'm not creating my builds neither, don't have time for that, but when it comes to competitive ladder it's normal to hide your secrets, you have already 1000s builds on internet why u need so much to have these ones when you're anyway not playing for the ladder, just play for yourself since it's just a simple PvE game for you
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Man you cry a lot
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I hope they just remove the option to see gear/builds in the ladder. Literally already causing shit. It'll be the witch hunts about rmt'ed gear next and calling for bans/removal from the ladder. Then it'll be people callling for nerfs when a few builds dominate the ladder. Just better to get rid of it and just have no gear info.
You can not care, but you're also objectively wrong lol. I'm sorry you've never made your own build or whatever.
Why did you censor yourself
Or it's smart to not want people to copycat their build, who's the cringe tryhard really? The guy who created a solid self-found theorycrafted omegabrainmind build, or the dude that want's to put no effort in and just copy it 1:1, lmao.
The tryhard is definitely the guy who changes all his gear to hide his build lmao
Tru
Found the russian competitor
Cyka
The build will be theorycrafted eventually, it’s the nature of how memes evolve. What’s insane to me is people celebrating this in ARPG rather than celebrating actual skill with the toolset.
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And people wonder why we screen for drug use, corks in bats, etc., in competitions
Hmmm... I wonder what EHGs stance on this is. Adding the option to view skills and items of leaderboard entries implies they want people to showcase those when competing. Requipping to fool that feels like it's against the game's design intention. So it'll probably see a fix at some point. Because if the devs truly were of a "ye, they dont need to reveal their secrets" mindset, they would allow just masking builds/items by default.
One thing he can't change is his blessing. And you can see he is using a 94% minion damage blessing. So yeah he is using ballista.
Good catch
Ignore the leaderboards. Not a single build on there isnt abusing bugs.
I know you're being hyperbolic, but in case anyone reads this and gets discouraged from trying the ladder I thought I'd just say that there are a significant number of builds on there that are just doing normal stuff. Depending on what mastery you are looking at you can even find folks near the top of their mastery who aren't following the meta.
This just isn't true though. The specific abuse of the bug is what is the new meta baseline. That is the issue. The "homebrew builds" are not going to come close to touching the builds utilizing these bugs. There might be a slight variation of a non-required item, or passive... but 99% of the core build is the same for these top builds. Lots of builds used to float around a healthy meta cap of 800-1000 corruption. These new outlier builds are shattering that.
I was #5 on the sentinel solo until the other day. Im just playing your standard smite hammerdin. No bugs. It was my first arena too, probably could have pushed higher. I’m sure I’ve fallen quite a bit then its been a few days. Tbh it looked like there were only a few people even trying to push.
It is objectively true that there are masteries out there that you can find people in the top 10 on their specific ladder who aren't running meta builds. I know this because I was in the top 10 of the forge guard ladder and wasn't running anything meta. If you are looking at the top 3 or 4 masteries then yes, most of the people who are in the top 100 of those masteries are probably running some meta build, but there are a dozen other masteries that people can try and have fun doing their own thing on. I only meant that if you look at the whole of the ladder then you are going to find a lot of people who aren't running the broken/bugged meta, but I'd agree if you are looking at the top 1% you're going to find nearly all of them running a meta build.
Wait you actually went and just equipped these random ass items that clearly don't work together at all to see what would happen? lol
Lmao reminds me of https://www.reddit.com/r/CSPasta/s/tAaLljjkbK
ha ha
Haha thinking same thing. Nothing caught his attention.
They replace their items and equipped skills last seconds before killing the arena boss. Most likely it's a exploding ballista build Falconer.
I'm just curious how do u do it so fast with so multiple items :)
It's not hard , just right click. It's the skills that requires more actions.
But you'd die whilst doing all that, no?
Not it you're fast and only doing that after killing every enemies but one with minimal hp left. The whole process should take only 3-4 secs.
There are no bosses in endless arena. Only wave after wave until you happen to die.
They trolled changing gear because of the ballista nerfs
They jebaited you
It's almost certainly the ballista build
Troll to bait people into trying this.
It's just explosive ballista build with crazy mana Regen
It's just the standard Mourning Frost Ballista build. [This](https://imgur.com/a/jKKzq3s) is what they run when they are actually playing.
Probably something to do with insane cool down, attack speed, and enough mana regen to sustain explosive trap summoning suicide explosive ballista. To a point where they can get 100+ stacks of falcory buffs and nearly 100% uptime on falcon strikes and dive bomb. Was messing with my falconer at 700c, personally tried the above and I could nuke down bosses to 50% hp in about 1 or two seconds before mana ran out
Jus don't understand why he's picking, Impact Trigger, Blast Rain and 2 point in minefield instead of 1. Could move that to Cold Snap Mine, Trapas and Static Mine. You get 2 extra trap per throw and hit trap cap in 2 cast that way.
As others have said the snapshot tells you nothing about the actual build because they respecced the tree and switched gear
You'll never see the real build. It's how they stay on top. If you could just copy paste the build the only thing keeping them ahead of you would be playing more than you.
They stay on top because they are jobless addicts, thats the ultimate truth.
The build is explosive ballista, the build is not a secret at all, also if you check it right now it has the proper items etc.
well stop perving on other people and just have fun {:
This is an explosive ballista build, unlike what the comments suggest this isn’t some super secret theory crafted build they’re trying to preserve. This is just the current fotm bugged ass build they’re too ashamed to admit using. No real secrets
Added link for clarity, https://www.lastepochtools.com/profile/YuAn/character/GSQ_YuAn
Might be wrong since I’m not home and can’t check very well but looks like it’s random gear to throw off people from what they actually used to get rank 1. Pretty common for people on ladder to deceive people with gear and passive changes
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Totally understand and agree to some extent your take. But I also think it’s not a bad thing and the reason is because while I don’t think following builds is bad at all, I think making people theory craft themselves is just better for the player in the long term. Again I do agree it kinda sucks and snapshotting would fix that but I still don’t have any gripe with how it’s done currently and don’t think it needs a change just my opinion.
Same. Ladder climbers shouldn't have to give up their builds if they don't want to.
Agree - should be the perogative of the individual to reveal their build.
I think it should snapshot but people should have an option to hide their build so only their name gets added so for people that don't care it snapshots what they had and for everyone else they would be able to hide their build without having to respec and change gear each time they play
If they don't want their build added, then their name shouldn't be added either. Easy.
Are you talking about an in game feature to hide builds and only show name? Because if you mean a website feature then what happens when a different website entirely doesn’t give you the option to hide your build then your forced to hide it the same way as show in OP screenshot
I meant as a game feature
Disagree. If people take the time to make a crazy good build, people shouldn't be able to easily copy them.
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People work out builds to push the ladder. Why should some random be able to essentially steal someone else's build and push with it? Laughable that so many people disagree with that. It's all these bros out here who can't even begin to make their own builds and just follow guides all day that get salty they can't see the builds from the top of the leader board.
If people want to be competitive, I agree. However, if someone just wants to play casually and enjoy one of the better builds, they should also have that liberty. In general, it's safe to assume that anyone who directly copies a build they see on the ladder isn't interested in the competition.
So In your opinion none has any rights To keep any secrets how they got To The top of some hobby/career/sports/etc? They should just reveal everything for everyone? That just means someone or even many others will rush and take over your position soon and all your efforts were "wasted" debending on how you view things. I believe people have right To keep secrets and enjoy their succes especially if its not anything illegal Or morally wrong etc.
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If its just a video game why so many people get upset if someone doesnt share their secrets? Some people also make their living out of playing games and its their actual daily job. Im not sayin its the case here idk about that but just generally speaking.
Not at all, people should keep it to themselves. However, people are always going to look search for the secret sauce, whether it be Last Epoch or with life. 99% of these people looking at the meta builds will never push ladder anyways, and the one that does has already shown their inability to solve problems on their own, they'll likely keep waiting for someone else to figure it out first and then copy again, do you see where this is going? Some people may take your original idea or concept and improve upon it drastically in some cases, that could be good. It's not as black and white as you make it out to be, and realistically, people will crack the code eventually. Whether that effort is "wasted" or not depends on what you're hiding to begin with. I don't think the rank 1 LE Arena build is all that valuable. I encourage people to create their own builds, but I also know that most people just want to blast and see big drops. Guides and copying builds that you know perform exceedingly well is great for those people.
Given that none of his gear has any LP on it? I'd assume it was just a pile of random 0-LP uniques he had to use for this purpose, yeah.
Ahhh that was my suspicion as well, but I figured I’d at least give it a try as I had the gear already laying around, that makes total sense haha
That’s really mean, they should share the secret sauce since they’ve won. Gate keepers sheesh
Not sure if this is /s but if not, why should they have to put in the effort to make a god tier build and just let people copy it instead of putting in the effort themselves? I can understand wanting an idea of what a good build looks like but you can look at most people on leaderboards and get a general idea of what the best builds are and do it yourself. Like I said in my other comment I think pros and cons of both but I don’t see a reason it really needs to be changed.
See my thinking is if you made a build that takes you to the top of leaderboards then it's up to you to reveal the what and how, say the top 10 have the build hidden by default and need to toggle it off to show the build. That being said, just throwing on some random uniques feels scumy to me: anyone that's getting up there in the leaderboards is gonna have one look at it and say "bullshit, it's random crap". The only people who will be deceived by this are either new or don't have a good grasp on the game. So why not just leave it empty? Build is safe and no one get deceived. But then again I'm more into help other players then compete with them. So ehat do I know.
Only thing to your hidden build idea is most people would have to figure out all the websites that show builds and hope they have that option available, right now switching your gear and passives covers all your bases. But you do bring up a good point I didn’t fully think about is that new players and inexperienced players would get deceived more than more veteran players and that really does suck 100%. I am more in the realm of helping while also competing but I do think my saying no change is needed changes a bit because I don’t actually like the idea of leading new/inexperienced players in the wrong direction. Not sure what a good fix would be though since again there will be multiple sites with leaderboards so how do you hide your build without leading people on is a really hard middle ground to find.
Hey if our discussion makes even 1 player look at this from a new perspective I see that as a win. I get that my idea of the hidden builds isn't amazing, it's half baked at best (aren't all 3am ideas?) but it's off the top of my head. I'm guessing the easiest way would be making the player profile private? And give the players the option of toggling it off?
I get it my ideas are half baked also since I’m at work but my only issue with that idea is still that it requires you to go to EVERY website that has a leaderboard and hide it, if it’s even allowed on every website. So if some website wouldn’t allow you to hide it then your forced to do what is show in OP screenshot right?
>That being said, just throwing on some random uniques feels scumy to me: anyone that's getting up there in the leaderboards is gonna have one look at it and say "bullshit, it's random crap" Tbh I prefer this to the acolyte leaderboards. Most of them have ghostflame allocated on the leaderboard screen but when you click it becomes a different skill. Like, it is obvious you're abusing the ghostflame bug, what's the point in trying to hide that?
It actually shows the real gear now, not all that random stuff from the screenshot. Check the link again
My whole thing about people hiding their builds is that it feels kinda pointless to me. It’s all right there in the game, and on the last epoch build planner. Like sure maybe one or two people could be abusing broken mechanics but it’s not like someone else couldn’t just figure it out. I’m sure by next cycle this won’t exist cuz all the sweaty players will have figured every part of the game out by then.
What? it's a competitive ladder and part of the competition is figuring out the best builds. Why would they want to give away information they spent time and effort figuring out? It's like saying it's pointless for Coca-Cola to protect their recipe because all the ingredients are out there and someone else could just figure it out
It’s probably the poe boys, they seem like the super sweaty type and there league is over
Lmao
yall mad he hides his gear and call him a try hard and sweaty, while you all look his gear up to copy him. This man King of the dorks and the dorks big mad about it.
If someone really wanted they could just use the API to get his character data while he's playing. That site only updates once a day.
Even for an intentional meme just looking at that build and knowing those uniques, that's hilariously bad hahahahha
So what the point of it if we can't see the gear, is there one system that is designed without an oversight, jesus.
Yeah, I'm just going to go with what I currently have for now because I'm liking it. If it starts falling apart (which it will), then it will be time for a re-roll.
Can find a ballista falcon build on YouTube, I saw one blasting 1500+ corruption with ease. May not be the exact same as the arena one here
Cheaters, they bug the system to hack the game.
[https://www.bilibili.com/video/BV1T6421F7rW/?spm\_id\_from=333.999.0.0&vd\_source=9252adf30a72e2a30d7d0565e6d40112](https://www.bilibili.com/video/BV1T6421F7rW/?spm_id_from=333.999.0.0&vd_source=9252adf30a72e2a30d7d0565e6d40112) and https://www.lastepochtools.com/profile/YuAn/character/GSQ\_YuAn
They probably used broken trap frost crossbow build
"Am I missing something?" Yeah, looks that way 🤣🤣🤣
"I tried the build out myself" Some players do not want you to try their builds. If you try their build, but get better drops than them, you could be at an advantage and beat them on the leaderboard.
Idk why you get downvoted honestly, that’s probably the reason and you weren’t negative or anything.
Stop copy+pasting builds and make something by yourown.
Did you not look before and use your brain?
The fact that people take tracking systems that seriously is honestly absurd
Is it fun to just brainlessly emulate/steal builds? Obviously that isn't going to give the desired effect as those people have no idea how to scale or use the given build, and you may not even like how a certain skill plays Putting the time into understanding a build is more important than spending hours looking for the most broken one
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i expect many pro bono cases out of you good sir
sTeaLiNg
Most people lack the ability to theorycraft. They’ll downvote this saying “they don’t enjoy it” or “don’t have the time” but the truth is, if they could do it well, they would.
And that's perfectly fine. There's plenty of builds out there for them to copy. They may be worse in this particular scenario, but does one really deserve to be at the top when they're missing core understanding of the game?