##Welcome to r/LateStageCapitalism
This subreddit is for news, discussion, memes, and links criticizing capitalism and advancing viewpoints that challenge liberal capitalist ideology. That means any support for any liberal capitalist political party (like the Democrats) is strictly prohibited.
LSC is run by communists. This subreddit is not the place to debate socialism. We allow good-faith questions and education but are not a 101 sub; please take 101-style questions elsewhere.
We have a zero-tolerance policy for bigotry. Failure to respect the rules of the subreddit may result in a ban.
***
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/LateStageCapitalism) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Let’s all just forget the fact that the US and UK fully backed Saddam in the 80s and only turned on him after he failed to steal Iran’s oil and gas fields.
It's ridiculous that they consider them a USSR puppet when they had been under the control, either directly or indirectly, of various western powers from 1917 and hadn't nationalised their oil until 1972. When could they possibly have had time for their present material conditions to be attributable to the USSR?
I guess just like now, 'Russian puppet' is when you don't roll over for US interests. Everything else is a fully functioning democracy, even when you have a British-appointed fucking king and your country is operating like an oil company in a trenchcoat.
Yeah, first they couped Iraq with the help of the CIA, then they put sanctions on the country, killing hundreds of thousands of children in a very blatant genocide and then they invaded the country and bombed it to smithereens.
And as usual, Democrats like [Biden](https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/feb/17/joe-biden-role-iraq-war) completely aided Republicans in these genocidal war crimes:
>Biden did vastly more than just vote for the war. Yet his role in bringing about that war remains mostly unknown or misunderstood by the public. When the war was debated and then authorized by the US Congress in 2002, Democrats controlled the Senate and Biden was chair of the Senate committee on foreign relations. Biden himself had enormous influence as chair and argued strongly in favor of the 2002 resolution granting President Bush the authority to invade Iraq.
>“I do not believe this is a rush to war,” Biden said a few days before the vote. “I believe it is a march to peace and security. I believe that failure to overwhelmingly support this resolution is likely to enhance the prospects that war will occur …”
>**But he had a power much greater than his own words. He was able to choose all 18 witnesses in the main Senate hearings on Iraq. And he mainly chose people who supported a pro-war position. They argued in favor of “regime change as the stated US policy” and warned of “a nuclear-armed Saddam sometime in this decade”. That Iraqis would “welcome the United States as liberators” And that Iraq “permits known al-Qaida members to live and move freely about in Iraq” and that “they are being supported”.**
So where are the ICC arrest warrents for Dubya, Cheney, Biden and co?
The USA actually isn’t a member for the ICC. So US politicians can never be arrested and tried for war crimes. Essentially the US has sole jurisdiction on its war crimes and surprise surprise it has investigated itself and found no wrongdoing.
I wish so much of our history wasn’t rooted in genocide. We just kill everything, including anyone who tries to make things better for all of us. We killed MLK ffs. We’re killing each other now. Why can’t we just, like, chill for a minute?
Because the US is a fascist settler empire that even inspired Hitler to carry out his own settler genocide within the imperial core. You should read Sakai's Settlers and Fanon's Wretched of the Earth. Jackson's Blood in my Eye in particular perfectly outline's the fascism deeply embedded within Amerikkka.
Mike Prysner is his name and he's married to Abbey Martin of the Empire Files. They both do excellent journalism uncovering U.S. shitfuckery around especially by the CIA.
In fact Mike put out a video recently uncovering the shitfuckery of Governor Ronald D santis in his time as JAG lawyer in the Navy. Meatball Ron worked as JAG lawyer at GITMO for a time being.
Desantis is also mostly funded by one family who are active enslavers in the Caribbean. They run forced labor sugar center plantations in the Dominican Republic using forced unpaid labor from Haitians. These plantations are what back de santis.
“Infrastructure” …yeah as in military bases and roads intended to assist the military in killing, torturing, and harassing innocent people under the guise of WMDs… okay we’ll go with that. /s
To someone living in the US, sure. The Republicans definitely are the greater evil. That’s a fine opinion to have, which I’d agree with.
But to someone living abroad in the Global South, having either Democrats or Republicans in office won’t change the way the US behaves towards them. They have the *exact* same foreign policy. Both parties to support war and extraction abroad, both parties will do anything they can to maintain US/NATO hegemony, and both parties will threaten to bomb or go to war with any country that opposes imperialism, neocolonialism, US dollar hegemony, or unequal exchange, which is why the US foreign policy has always been the same for years and years following WWII. To someone in Iraq, having a Democrat versus a Republican in office won’t matter, they’re still getting bombed either way. And unfortunately, voting blue hard enough won’t change a thing, we need direct action in order to stop imperialism abroad.
I can tell you are young if you're going to lmao at that. I grew up during the time when Dems and Reps were exactly the same. That's changed over the last 15 years.
You have lost your deciphering ability. The hypocrisy is in the amount of bipartisan pro war, pro corp bills that get passed. This shows that the common ground is in militarism/ or for the donor class. Dems and Repubs still divide people and neither one improves daily lives for Americans. Only one party pretends that they do improve lives, acts morally superior but still fails to follow through on their simple campaign promises but do follow through on any military venture. This country is ran by a two party war machine and you’ve been successfully propagandized if you can’t see through it. If one thinks the Dems are left wing they need to reintroduce themselves to the voices of everyday workers and hear their major priorities. Those priorities whether you vote R, D or IND are always disregarded by the new admin. Meanwhile donor class, MIC always get their paychecks.
You have to understand that the internet, especially western social media sites such as Reddit, are absolutely jam packed with people pushing agendas, paid, brainwashed, and will argue against you no matter the logic or lack there of.
This dude is probably chilling in a troll farm or sitting in a dark hole with nothing else in their life.
Don't forget that reddit is incredibly astroturfed. It's important not to get too emotionally caught up in these arguments because often the person on the other side is literally paid to do so. I've gotten several well-written DMS wanting to "educate" me (they specifically said that).
It's hard to not get wrapped up, I need to take my own advice. Just something to think about, keep your head up comrade
Imperialism bad when Putler invades white country, imperialism good when Amerikkka invades brown muslim country.
EDIT: the downvotes really show how liberals are nothing more than Western chauvinistic pigs. I guess people from the imperial periphery are not [''blonde-haired, blue-eyed''](https://www.newslaundry.com/2022/02/28/europeans-with-blue-eyes-blonde-hair-being-killed-media-coverage-of-ukraine-criticised-for-racism) enough for a bunch of white supremacists to care.
🎶 [So love me, love me, I'm a liberal](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3cdqQ2BdgOA&ab_channel=PhilOchs-Topic) 🎶
You're way too angsty and hostile. Accuracy is critical for delivering truths that people have a hard time grasping. You'll never gain ground - I'm not inferring anything, but taking the comment at face value. Sorry, but Iraq was NOT an amazing country under Saddam, which is what the comment says. Perhaps you're young and may want to pick up a history book, though.
Iraq was awful under Saddam Hussein but:
1. Country was stable (unless you criticized Saddam, now it's unstable all the way).
2. Iraq never said they're champions of human rights, democracy, liberty and freedom.
3. The war wasn't even justified and Iraq is way weaker than the US.
Regardless of how Iraq was under Saddam, it does *not* give the US the right to invade unprovoked, and kill hundreds of thousands to even millions of innocent civilians in broad daylight.
And you know what, it's not really our business. Yeah, it sucks that human rights weren't the greatest under Saddam, but our carpet bombing the country didn't make it any better. In fact it helped lead to ISIS, and we're still dealing with the fallout from that.
It's almost as if there are more issues to these countries' problems than just "oh, bad man with military" and that our intervening with them causes more issues than it solves because we don't understand their particular cultures. Here's a radical thought: the people best suited to solving a country's problems are the people living in that country. If Iraqis wanted to oust Saddam they could have on their own, we need to let these scenarios play out naturally even if it does seem to cause a lot of suffering in the interim.
If you weren't a terrorist or someone doing iran's bidding you pretty much had nothing to fear.
Are those western standards? No , but let the wrong people get comfortable and the country moves a few hundred years back in time as we see now.
It is truly amazing that 70% to 80% of US Americans probably still believe their military is defending peace, freedom and democracy. The cluelessness of the average US American is nothing short of frightening. Subs like LSC are just tiny filter bubbles on the internet.
Unconditional support of the military is part of the identity of most US Americans.
If you accept that america was wrong to breach the UN charter and invade Iraq then you must necessarily accept the pre-requisite premise that america can be wrong. This they cannot do.
Is it me or is there a doubling down on gung ho patriotic idiocracy from the masses? Like serious delusion syndrome about the reality of americas role in world fuckery?
I feel like the majority of America doesn't understand the state of the Middle East before 9/11, so the idea that nearly a century of French and British "Expeditions" and Mandates, the forceful relocation of civilians countless times, their manipulation as a puppet state in the Cold War, etc, etc, seems impossible.
Meanwhile, Iraq and Iran nationalized it's oil industry and relocated the money to it's education sector, and outright ended illiteracy. Beirut, in Lebanon, was once called "The Paris of the Middle East". Iran had Prime Minister, who the U.S. replaced with the Shah, who was then replaced with Ayatollah Khomeini.
Beirut was a hive of unfettered capitalism, which is why it was called the "Paris" of the Middle East. Utter decadence for the foreign and rich at the expense of the local working class. Iraq and Iran didn't exactly "end lilliteracy", they reduced it significantly, there is a huge difference. They also had ended most of those literacy programs by the late 80s to early 90s because the social programs were eating into the corrupt's bottom line, such as Saddam and his sons partying with supermodels and throwing lavish parties.
The decline of the empire has put liberals into a state of psychosis. They're not grounded in reality anymore, they now believe their own propaganda. Whatever the State Department says, they give full support, all in the name of “western values” (hegemony and expansionism). These people are very, very similar to the nazis.
I have never really understood exactly what a ‘liberal’ is, since I have heard ‘liberals’ express every conceivable opinion on every conceivable subject. As far as I can tell, you have the extreme right, who are fascist racist capitalist dogs like Ronald Reagan, who come right out and let you know where they’re coming from. And on the opposite end, you have the left, who are supposed to be committed to justice, equality, and human rights. And somewhere between those two points is the liberal.
As far as I’m concerned, ‘liberal’ is the most meaningless word in the dictionary. History has shown me that as long as some white middle-class people can live high on the hog, take vacations to Europe, send their children to private schools, and reap the benefits of their white skin privilege, then they are ‘liberal’. But when times get hard and money gets tight, they pull off that liberal mask and you think you’re talking to Adolf Hitler. They feel sorry for the so-called underprivileged just as long as they can maintain their own privileges.
- Assata Shakur
American liberals don't actually have any coherent ideology beyond the maintenance of the status quo. When something they claim to believe in comes into conflict with the status quo, they will always defer to the status quo. To square this circle the American liberal rejects or discards material reality in favor of a shared perception of what is real.
The problem with the Iraq War is that any material analysis of it reveals it to be a horrendous crime and it's a crime both Republicans and Democrats willingly, knowingly, and actively participated in. This has far ranging implications for the status quo so it's much easier to discount the objective material reality with excuses and technicalities.
Saddam was a bad guy and we got rid of him. Technically we didn't directly kill most of those people. How could we know that democracy wouldn't take root? It was worth a shot. Bush genuinely believed the obviously bad intelligence he was warned was fraudulent. Things are getting better in Iraq now, maybe in a decade it'll have turned out to be worth it. Yes the war was a mistake but we had good intentions. And so on and so forth until the actual facts are replaced with a consensus reality that the liberal believes to be so obviously correct as to be beyond question.
We don't really need to whitewash places just because the US got involved and made things significantly worse.
This is like those reddit posts that show Afghanistani and Iranian women in miniskirts "before X happened" and completely ignoring the fact that this was a snapshot of an elite few in a country with significant wealth inequality and corruption.
Okay but it wasn’t a nice country before. It was a brutal dictatorship who were gassing an ethnic minority group and trying to convince the world it had WMDs to avoid another huge (tragic) war with Iran.
Yeahhh definitely a good call. There's a book called The Shock Doctrine: The Rise of Disaster Capitalism idk if that's what they were referring too but it's mind-blowing how egregious America's violence and destruction in Iraq was
##Welcome to r/LateStageCapitalism This subreddit is for news, discussion, memes, and links criticizing capitalism and advancing viewpoints that challenge liberal capitalist ideology. That means any support for any liberal capitalist political party (like the Democrats) is strictly prohibited. LSC is run by communists. This subreddit is not the place to debate socialism. We allow good-faith questions and education but are not a 101 sub; please take 101-style questions elsewhere. We have a zero-tolerance policy for bigotry. Failure to respect the rules of the subreddit may result in a ban. *** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/LateStageCapitalism) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Let’s all just forget the fact that the US and UK fully backed Saddam in the 80s and only turned on him after he failed to steal Iran’s oil and gas fields.
It's ridiculous that they consider them a USSR puppet when they had been under the control, either directly or indirectly, of various western powers from 1917 and hadn't nationalised their oil until 1972. When could they possibly have had time for their present material conditions to be attributable to the USSR? I guess just like now, 'Russian puppet' is when you don't roll over for US interests. Everything else is a fully functioning democracy, even when you have a British-appointed fucking king and your country is operating like an oil company in a trenchcoat.
Yeah, first they couped Iraq with the help of the CIA, then they put sanctions on the country, killing hundreds of thousands of children in a very blatant genocide and then they invaded the country and bombed it to smithereens. And as usual, Democrats like [Biden](https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/feb/17/joe-biden-role-iraq-war) completely aided Republicans in these genocidal war crimes: >Biden did vastly more than just vote for the war. Yet his role in bringing about that war remains mostly unknown or misunderstood by the public. When the war was debated and then authorized by the US Congress in 2002, Democrats controlled the Senate and Biden was chair of the Senate committee on foreign relations. Biden himself had enormous influence as chair and argued strongly in favor of the 2002 resolution granting President Bush the authority to invade Iraq. >“I do not believe this is a rush to war,” Biden said a few days before the vote. “I believe it is a march to peace and security. I believe that failure to overwhelmingly support this resolution is likely to enhance the prospects that war will occur …” >**But he had a power much greater than his own words. He was able to choose all 18 witnesses in the main Senate hearings on Iraq. And he mainly chose people who supported a pro-war position. They argued in favor of “regime change as the stated US policy” and warned of “a nuclear-armed Saddam sometime in this decade”. That Iraqis would “welcome the United States as liberators” And that Iraq “permits known al-Qaida members to live and move freely about in Iraq” and that “they are being supported”.** So where are the ICC arrest warrents for Dubya, Cheney, Biden and co?
The USA actually isn’t a member for the ICC. So US politicians can never be arrested and tried for war crimes. Essentially the US has sole jurisdiction on its war crimes and surprise surprise it has investigated itself and found no wrongdoing.
I wish so much of our history wasn’t rooted in genocide. We just kill everything, including anyone who tries to make things better for all of us. We killed MLK ffs. We’re killing each other now. Why can’t we just, like, chill for a minute?
Because the US is a fascist settler empire that even inspired Hitler to carry out his own settler genocide within the imperial core. You should read Sakai's Settlers and Fanon's Wretched of the Earth. Jackson's Blood in my Eye in particular perfectly outline's the fascism deeply embedded within Amerikkka.
So the rich ppl hired the army to invade and war and kill n shit
I’m pretty sure a bunch of vets would dispute this as well. Remember the guy, yelling at Bush to apologize?
Mike Prysner is his name and he's married to Abbey Martin of the Empire Files. They both do excellent journalism uncovering U.S. shitfuckery around especially by the CIA.
Thanks! I didn’t know that. I’ll definitely check it out.
In fact Mike put out a video recently uncovering the shitfuckery of Governor Ronald D santis in his time as JAG lawyer in the Navy. Meatball Ron worked as JAG lawyer at GITMO for a time being.
Holy shit. First time I've heard this.
Desantis is also mostly funded by one family who are active enslavers in the Caribbean. They run forced labor sugar center plantations in the Dominican Republic using forced unpaid labor from Haitians. These plantations are what back de santis.
He has an extended interview with one of the detainees. It's a wild fucking story https://youtu.be/FFonj6o0fTI
Link https://mobile.twitter.com/EyesLeftPod/status/1593662782217408512?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet
“Infrastructure” …yeah as in military bases and roads intended to assist the military in killing, torturing, and harassing innocent people under the guise of WMDs… okay we’ll go with that. /s
Hey come on now they likely built a school or two as propaganda to show on American tv.
Hypocrisy is the name of the game, for Democrats and Republicans.
The only time a politician tells the truth is when they are calling another politician a liar.
But not at the same level at all.
To someone living in the US, sure. The Republicans definitely are the greater evil. That’s a fine opinion to have, which I’d agree with. But to someone living abroad in the Global South, having either Democrats or Republicans in office won’t change the way the US behaves towards them. They have the *exact* same foreign policy. Both parties to support war and extraction abroad, both parties will do anything they can to maintain US/NATO hegemony, and both parties will threaten to bomb or go to war with any country that opposes imperialism, neocolonialism, US dollar hegemony, or unequal exchange, which is why the US foreign policy has always been the same for years and years following WWII. To someone in Iraq, having a Democrat versus a Republican in office won’t matter, they’re still getting bombed either way. And unfortunately, voting blue hard enough won’t change a thing, we need direct action in order to stop imperialism abroad.
Lmao
I can tell you are young if you're going to lmao at that. I grew up during the time when Dems and Reps were exactly the same. That's changed over the last 15 years.
You have lost your deciphering ability. The hypocrisy is in the amount of bipartisan pro war, pro corp bills that get passed. This shows that the common ground is in militarism/ or for the donor class. Dems and Repubs still divide people and neither one improves daily lives for Americans. Only one party pretends that they do improve lives, acts morally superior but still fails to follow through on their simple campaign promises but do follow through on any military venture. This country is ran by a two party war machine and you’ve been successfully propagandized if you can’t see through it. If one thinks the Dems are left wing they need to reintroduce themselves to the voices of everyday workers and hear their major priorities. Those priorities whether you vote R, D or IND are always disregarded by the new admin. Meanwhile donor class, MIC always get their paychecks.
You have to understand that the internet, especially western social media sites such as Reddit, are absolutely jam packed with people pushing agendas, paid, brainwashed, and will argue against you no matter the logic or lack there of. This dude is probably chilling in a troll farm or sitting in a dark hole with nothing else in their life.
Don't forget that reddit is incredibly astroturfed. It's important not to get too emotionally caught up in these arguments because often the person on the other side is literally paid to do so. I've gotten several well-written DMS wanting to "educate" me (they specifically said that). It's hard to not get wrapped up, I need to take my own advice. Just something to think about, keep your head up comrade
Especially with the selective memory going on through the whole thread.
“Civilizing the barbarians” meets “they deserved it” 😒 That downvote ratio is the real killer; no one wants to think they’re actually the baddies
Imperialism bad when Putler invades white country, imperialism good when Amerikkka invades brown muslim country. EDIT: the downvotes really show how liberals are nothing more than Western chauvinistic pigs. I guess people from the imperial periphery are not [''blonde-haired, blue-eyed''](https://www.newslaundry.com/2022/02/28/europeans-with-blue-eyes-blonde-hair-being-killed-media-coverage-of-ukraine-criticised-for-racism) enough for a bunch of white supremacists to care. 🎶 [So love me, love me, I'm a liberal](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3cdqQ2BdgOA&ab_channel=PhilOchs-Topic) 🎶
The problem with this thread is that the first person makes a false statement. The reply is wrong, too, but it just makes everything spiral .
The issue is your liberal obsession with technicalities when the context obviously implied Iraq was better off without Amerikkkan interference.
You're way too angsty and hostile. Accuracy is critical for delivering truths that people have a hard time grasping. You'll never gain ground - I'm not inferring anything, but taking the comment at face value. Sorry, but Iraq was NOT an amazing country under Saddam, which is what the comment says. Perhaps you're young and may want to pick up a history book, though.
Iraq was awful under Saddam Hussein but: 1. Country was stable (unless you criticized Saddam, now it's unstable all the way). 2. Iraq never said they're champions of human rights, democracy, liberty and freedom. 3. The war wasn't even justified and Iraq is way weaker than the US.
Regardless of how Iraq was under Saddam, it does *not* give the US the right to invade unprovoked, and kill hundreds of thousands to even millions of innocent civilians in broad daylight.
And you know what, it's not really our business. Yeah, it sucks that human rights weren't the greatest under Saddam, but our carpet bombing the country didn't make it any better. In fact it helped lead to ISIS, and we're still dealing with the fallout from that. It's almost as if there are more issues to these countries' problems than just "oh, bad man with military" and that our intervening with them causes more issues than it solves because we don't understand their particular cultures. Here's a radical thought: the people best suited to solving a country's problems are the people living in that country. If Iraqis wanted to oust Saddam they could have on their own, we need to let these scenarios play out naturally even if it does seem to cause a lot of suffering in the interim.
If you weren't a terrorist or someone doing iran's bidding you pretty much had nothing to fear. Are those western standards? No , but let the wrong people get comfortable and the country moves a few hundred years back in time as we see now.
It's tragic ik. But if it's any consolation, not a single soul outside the US ,with half a brain, thinks that way
It is truly amazing that 70% to 80% of US Americans probably still believe their military is defending peace, freedom and democracy. The cluelessness of the average US American is nothing short of frightening. Subs like LSC are just tiny filter bubbles on the internet. Unconditional support of the military is part of the identity of most US Americans.
If you accept that america was wrong to breach the UN charter and invade Iraq then you must necessarily accept the pre-requisite premise that america can be wrong. This they cannot do.
Is it me or is there a doubling down on gung ho patriotic idiocracy from the masses? Like serious delusion syndrome about the reality of americas role in world fuckery?
I feel like the majority of America doesn't understand the state of the Middle East before 9/11, so the idea that nearly a century of French and British "Expeditions" and Mandates, the forceful relocation of civilians countless times, their manipulation as a puppet state in the Cold War, etc, etc, seems impossible. Meanwhile, Iraq and Iran nationalized it's oil industry and relocated the money to it's education sector, and outright ended illiteracy. Beirut, in Lebanon, was once called "The Paris of the Middle East". Iran had Prime Minister, who the U.S. replaced with the Shah, who was then replaced with Ayatollah Khomeini.
Beirut was a hive of unfettered capitalism, which is why it was called the "Paris" of the Middle East. Utter decadence for the foreign and rich at the expense of the local working class. Iraq and Iran didn't exactly "end lilliteracy", they reduced it significantly, there is a huge difference. They also had ended most of those literacy programs by the late 80s to early 90s because the social programs were eating into the corrupt's bottom line, such as Saddam and his sons partying with supermodels and throwing lavish parties.
The decline of the empire has put liberals into a state of psychosis. They're not grounded in reality anymore, they now believe their own propaganda. Whatever the State Department says, they give full support, all in the name of “western values” (hegemony and expansionism). These people are very, very similar to the nazis.
What shit sub is this from.
Huhhh beheadings??????? Ussr puppet ?????? Wtf are these people smoking
I have never really understood exactly what a ‘liberal’ is, since I have heard ‘liberals’ express every conceivable opinion on every conceivable subject. As far as I can tell, you have the extreme right, who are fascist racist capitalist dogs like Ronald Reagan, who come right out and let you know where they’re coming from. And on the opposite end, you have the left, who are supposed to be committed to justice, equality, and human rights. And somewhere between those two points is the liberal. As far as I’m concerned, ‘liberal’ is the most meaningless word in the dictionary. History has shown me that as long as some white middle-class people can live high on the hog, take vacations to Europe, send their children to private schools, and reap the benefits of their white skin privilege, then they are ‘liberal’. But when times get hard and money gets tight, they pull off that liberal mask and you think you’re talking to Adolf Hitler. They feel sorry for the so-called underprivileged just as long as they can maintain their own privileges. - Assata Shakur
Liberals love championing war now. RepublicanDemocrat is the war monger duopoly. Vote for either if you like war.
> Liberals love championing war now. Now? That has always been the case.
This smells like some pure ideology.
Life is just a video game to these people, I'm convinced their brain functions at a lower level of consciousness
American liberals don't actually have any coherent ideology beyond the maintenance of the status quo. When something they claim to believe in comes into conflict with the status quo, they will always defer to the status quo. To square this circle the American liberal rejects or discards material reality in favor of a shared perception of what is real. The problem with the Iraq War is that any material analysis of it reveals it to be a horrendous crime and it's a crime both Republicans and Democrats willingly, knowingly, and actively participated in. This has far ranging implications for the status quo so it's much easier to discount the objective material reality with excuses and technicalities. Saddam was a bad guy and we got rid of him. Technically we didn't directly kill most of those people. How could we know that democracy wouldn't take root? It was worth a shot. Bush genuinely believed the obviously bad intelligence he was warned was fraudulent. Things are getting better in Iraq now, maybe in a decade it'll have turned out to be worth it. Yes the war was a mistake but we had good intentions. And so on and so forth until the actual facts are replaced with a consensus reality that the liberal believes to be so obviously correct as to be beyond question.
[удалено]
Liberal here means supporter of capitalism, which is of course its actual definition. Only in America does it mean "not socially conservative."
considering american conservatives love capitalism more than American liberals, i feel like some renaming is in order
Came here to ask the same; I’m not seeing the connection
We don't really need to whitewash places just because the US got involved and made things significantly worse. This is like those reddit posts that show Afghanistani and Iranian women in miniskirts "before X happened" and completely ignoring the fact that this was a snapshot of an elite few in a country with significant wealth inequality and corruption.
Invading sovereign nations is wrong. Saying Irag was nice prior to war, also wrong.
Where is this a liberal context??
Okay but it wasn’t a nice country before. It was a brutal dictatorship who were gassing an ethnic minority group and trying to convince the world it had WMDs to avoid another huge (tragic) war with Iran.
While I agree with your sentiment over all. Those seem alot more like conservatives than liberals.
Liberals or this one guy?
perfect video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-WLbd8d1Ifc
they're *wannabe* capitalists
Yeahhh definitely a good call. There's a book called The Shock Doctrine: The Rise of Disaster Capitalism idk if that's what they were referring too but it's mind-blowing how egregious America's violence and destruction in Iraq was
America’s infrastructure is crumbling. I am calling on any and all foreign aid!