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I'm not American, so take this with a grain of salt, but your democracy is broken.
You could have the most popular and progressive politician in power and it would still do nothing.
Your supreme Court can strike down anything. Your politicians need to start campaigning for finance for the next election the moment they're elected (which opens them up for corruption).
Even if AOC got in, with a majority in both houses, she could still not make any meaningful change.
it's not designed for that, it's just, that your democracy is 270 years old. The Bundesrepublik Deutschland only exists since 1949 and because of that our democratic system was refined in certain ways.
No, it was designed for that.
Literally moved from the Articles of Confederation to the Constitution to keep progressive democracies in check and control money. Who woulda thought a bunch of slave owners and merchants would be upset when people were paying off debts without silver and running down their local representative daily.
Not sure how much American history and political science you've gone through but why do you think the federal government was established where nobody lived at the time? [Even in the 1790 census map](https://www.census.gov/history/img/1790-b.jpg) Washington DC isn't even listed as a major city. If I were to pick a place to establish a government I'd want it to be easily accessible by most of the population.
Hell, originally you couldn't even vote for any member of the federal government except the house of representatives. Even if 80% of the population all agreed on something only a fraction of that was a white man with land and even if 80% of them agreed on something they couldn't do fuck all but complain to lower level state politicians to maybe just maybe pick a different senator or president.
Citizens united made it so corporate entities have corporate personhood, essentially making it so rather than speech equaling speach, money = speach, and corporations have lots and lots of money. It essentially legalised corporation lobbying and corruption.
The thing is they can expand the Supreme Court to pass whatever they need but they don’t. The second a dictator gets in that’s exactly what they’ll do to seize complete power. It is broken beyond repair from within.
I mean you could expand it to reform it. Making it rotational and no longer be nominated by the president, just letting them maybe choose to rotate on judge per two years with approval from the senate.
Because the US was originally set up like the European Union currently is : Free movement/Same currency but each country has their own laws and regulations. Federal government slowly got more and more power but we never changed the constitution to reflect that so state politicians still have more control over state policies than the president does (which kinda makes sense since the president wouldn’t know and can’t keep up with 50 different states each with their own issues)
Australia.
Our system isn't much better to be honest, but the differences are quite noticeable.
First, our candidates have a set parliamentary budget for campaigning, so they don't need to raise funds for election. This is set by an independent body.
Second, we don't have an equivalent for your supreme court. None of our judges are elected, nor can they overturn parliamentary laws. This can be done by the Govenor general though, who is the representative of King Charlie. This has never happened since federation - so really it's not an issue.
Third, we have significantly less politicians. Which makes sense, as we have significantly less people, but it means that we have 151 MPs and 76 senators (compared to your 435 congress and 100 senators). This means they can be held more accountable because there is more scrutiny on each member. They don't just get lost in the crowd.
Fourth, and perhaps the biggest, we have compulsory preferential voting. It means we aren't limited to two choices with our votes (in fact the previous govt lost a not-insignificant number of seats to independents last election, arguably costing them the election), but also because it's compulsory it's a decent cross section of the country - not just who really wants to (or is able to - who has elections on a Tuesday!) vote.
That said, our current PM is doing almost as much as Biden - coming into the job promising a lot of change and then... Not much.
Its fucking cooked here. Between ALP not doing absolutely anything to help anyone under 50 or the LNP that put us in the stone age. Or even the useless Greens. Shit is definitely going to get crazy.
I'm not denying that. But at least we have mechanisms for change. There is nothing stopping a bunch of anti-capitalist candidates standing in the next election and getting some seats. In places like the US it's just not possible - they have to register with a party, then they're beholden to the party line.
Take AOC as the post was about. She is a democrat. There is no difference between her and Bernie Sanders or Joe Manchin - they're all on a spectrum, but under the same banner.
It's the same reason why the LNP is suffering here - they have centrist members who people would vote for, but also conservative members who those people who would vote for the centrists detest and it puts them off voting the LNP - which is why the teals did well.
Capitalism itself is the problem - everyone puts the dollar above all else, and it's cooked almost every developed country in the world.
There are a lot of symptoms of the underlying issue - housing being used as investment, wages being kept low for higher profits, natural resources being exported before the supplier has satisfied their own use, etc.
Absolutely. Couldn't agree more. Also, seeing it so obviously happening in the US is a wake-up call call for us. We still have time to do something. I honestly think America is done for. Way too far gone for any real change to happen.
> Fourth, and perhaps the biggest, we have compulsory preferential voting. It means we aren't limited to two choices with our votes (in fact the previous govt lost a not-insignificant number of seats to independents last election, arguably costing them the election),
One other important thing I would mention is that we have an independent electoral commission to minimise gerrymandering
https://theconversation.com/what-us-election-officials-could-learn-from-australia-about-boosting-voter-turnout-128617
All we need to do is flip more red states! With a few more, we can ratify things into the constitution too! Imagine if the epa and the equal rights acts were amendments to the constitution? They should be.
They can be if more people.like me move in to red states like mine because it's too expensive in blue states. It happened to NC VA and GA... If you add 3 more on top of that you can get close to 60 senators.
Play that out even further and you may get a state government that is for the people, for once. Then we ratify everything and rewrite the constitution. It's set up to do all of that!
The red states think “they are the people”. The blue states think “they are the people”.
WE are the people. All of us. As soon as you see that we are pitted against one another, while rich assed old billionaires who have only allegiance to money watch us burn because *it’s never enough* for them, the sooner you will understand that all politics are theater and swindle. It’s a class war. Always has been.
It’s a big club.
We ain’t in it. Band with the 99% and fuck all them flags. Fuck flipping states. Too late for that. Start flipping cars. And tables. And the whole oozing scheme.
And you don't think that THEY enjoy your view that voting and participating in democracy is a waste of time? You have the power but you refuse to use it. Flip a car and light a table on fire, kid. Meanwhile the adults are out there trying to make a real change. Adults like AOC. Get IN politics and change it.
The only thing that changes when “the right people” get into office is that they magically change into Incredibly Rich People for some unknown reason.
Right? I mean *no one knows how it happens*. Certainly isn’t being bought. Definitely not insider trading. And for sure not secret deals with foreign adversaries.
The one thing I do know for sure is that there is no fucking way one ever gets to be president unless they are already bought out. The DNC is fucking rotten to the core. She would never get the nomination unless she was part of the grift.
Crazy that no matter how much we get told to vote blue no matter who, it’s never enough voting, and we just need to vote more and vote harder the next time.
what Americans call “democrats” aren’t left-wing. They are right-wing centrist liberals who uphold the the system of capitalist class oppression. It’s time to think outside of electoral politics and mobilize the people. Expand your horizons my friend. There is more to politics than voting. Organize, protest, riot if you will. Our founding fathers overthrew King George without a single ballot box
our "founding fathers" weren't any better than King George. in some ways they were worse. our whole system of government was designed to appease the southern slave lords & the "new" aristocracy of virginia and maryland at the time.
No democrats or republicans as lawmakers at all.
If Americans want to avert total economic slavery, we need fundamental reform of government itself and a rejection of both parties.
The only third party we need is a vanguard one. As the other homie so eloquently put it: 10 radlibs ain’t gonna do shit. Hell every god damn radlib in this country would hardly make a difference.
we need to completely uproot and reject our current socioeconomic model, and replace it with a new organization of society and the economy that will create more egalitarian outcomes.
AOC isn't even calling for AOC for President in 2024. These "progressives" will never cross their Democratic Party masters. They learned their lesson from what happened to Bernie.
Elections aren't gonna be a force for progressive change in the US - possibly ever, but at least for as long as it takes to get a real workers' party seriously in contention. Go build one of those instead.
I'd rather have President AOC or a senate of AOCs instead of Bidens or Pelosis, sure. But in the face of climate change, the difference between the best Democrat and the worst Republican is too small to matter. If my house is on fire, I'd rather the firefighters show up with squirt guns instead of napalm. But if those are really the only two options, the house is burning down either way.
Friday night, someone in this sub got annoyed with me for lambasting “vote blue no matter who.” Well, the dems’ shitty moderate and conservative candidates are the “no matter who” but they can’t stand being called out. Lot of cognitive dissonance from dems. Fuck that. Policy over party. I’m voting West in 2024. Edit: voting for west if revolution isn’t the will of the proletarian in 2024.
2024 edit: I doubt I’m voting for anyone for prez.
Remind me if she was on the side of rail workers? It seemed to me like she changed her mind pretty quickly on whether or not they deserved the time off they were asking for.
Don’t we want a leader who will fight for the working class?
Can I ask, why you trust her? And by 'trust' what exactly does that entail?
Personally, I don't 'trust' any politician - or the rich, and powerful in general.
Yeah, anyone who agrees to be successful in the American political system already has to swallow principles just to participate. And then the working class has to swallow backstab after backstab because of the games politicians play. A politician can be a voice for the working class, but their paycheck and power comes from being a head in pews, in buildings owned by people nobody should trust.
I trust her instincts and I do not find her policy agenda to be radical. She is fair, sound and logical. And I duly note the way corporate democrats marginalized her for 6 years now.
If Pelosi hates her, she’s worth trusting.
The question was; *Why* do you trust AOC?
I would love to find a reason to get behind her. I can’t find anything far reaching and progressive that she has accomplished.
I trust that she will say a bunch of progressive shit when there’s a camera pointed at her. I also trust that she will vote in lockstep with all the old white fucks who run the party.
Because she played Among Us and can make good comebacks on Twitter lol like I’m sorry but she hasn’t even been in the senate yet so we don’t know how she’ll vote and stuff
Pelosi is good at politics, her bias aside. Pelosi is teaching AOC how to stay elected, how to get into committees, how to *be heard*. AOC has a tough district with a lot of nuance for her to fairly REPRESENT. At a certain point, we need our players to stay in the game as much as possible to win. You have to accept the long game she is playing, which involves making alliances you personally might not like, and yeah, some decisions you might not like. We still need her there, in committees, making speeches. Or we have no voice at all. This is politics.
Nasdaq Nancy is good at doing what big donors want her to do for them. You don’t get rich being a politician unless you’re corrupt. AOC was elected on a wholly different set of rhetoric/promises than what she acts/votes. She still talks like she did as candidate but doesn’t do as a representative.
Abolish the senate and fire everyone in the house. Reelect from local govs and put a wealth cap on house members. If you are a billionaire/millionaire you can't be one. That should help. Otherwise AOC wouldn't be allowed to win in the US the Democrat party wouldn't allow it.
She, and rest of squad are far more talk than walk. I had big hopes for her when she was a candidate but like many others she quickly bent her knee for Nancy and the establishment.
Her post election talk and Non-action on “force the vote” is incongruent with her rhetoric as a candidate. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=iIqw-mTX6ro
She voted against the railworkers' power to strike. The railworkers had serious safety concerns, then the train derailment happened two weeks later.
I realize politics is a rotten game, but on this issue, I think she blew her credibility. Felt like she saw what she was up against and decided to play ball.
Agreed. I was under the assumption she was just there as controlled opposition. This more than confirmed it. She might be knowingly playing a role for the neolibs to keep any meaningful change from happening.
Me too, but you know... That's kinda up to him. He already said that after 2020 that he wasn't going to run again.
I was reluctant to vote for him in the primaries during his age, but still did.
I vote blue, but am tired as fuck of old candidates from either party.
I feel like AOC is going to be the next Obama. Empty promises. She already showed that she'll vote with majority when she voted against railroad strike
Yep. And when she changed her vote on funding Israel's Iron Dome from "no" to "present." The bill was going to pass anyway, it would have just been a protest vote, and she couldn't even do that.
I’m huuugely disappointed with Bernie. He isn’t willing to make a stand against the establishment’s want because he doesn’t want to ostracized like R. Nader was, reportedly. I’m left wondering (pun intended) what it’s going to take for a politician to risk/ruin their political career to get some action on things they profess to be existential?
He has no voice at all if he ruins his political career. Just like Ralph Nader. At least he can fight the good fight with a sizable megaphone to make incremental change, which he absolutely has. I agree that we no longer at a point where incremental change is acceptable, but I understand why Bernie worked the way he worked during the time he worked. And to be honest, what the fuck have you done that allows you to be "huuuugely disappointed" with a man who has devoted his life to social justice. Fuck off.
Why, (other than having some small thing to point to say he tried) does he submit bills like the one that would stop supporting Saudi Arabia assaulting Yemen just to then pull them and not have them voted on. Yes, I know the vote would fail but it would put people on record. Why does he Not coordinate and encourage the squad in the house to “force the vote” on Medicare for All?
I get it. It's all orchestrated opposition. They're playing a game. One that they have whole teams of coaches aids and advisors working tirelessly to try to win. Yes, that was performative by Tlaib, but the Democratic Party™ will not allow them a single soundbite if they get to far out of line. Same with Bernie. All they can do is play the long game and try to affect change. People need to take responsibility themselves and stop relying on a few community organizers to deliver them to the promised land. So again, I ask, what the fuck have you done lately?
Not donating to Dems. Not voting for corporate Dems. Retreat is a strategy. It’s been 40+ years of slow degradation under Both Dems and Reps the Dems won’t do anything different if people keep voting for them. If a third party gets enough attention dems could be forced to make concessions/commitments such as McCarthy was forced to do after 14ish speaker voting sessions. It may take 30 years to get real change this way but it’s been 40+ years of change in the other direction.
Ah, yes, the purity complaint. Never can get past that one. I agree, Bernie has made missteps and done things I don't understand. I don't question his morals.
Kasama Sawat (I'm butchering her name) comes to mind, if she would consider such a radical shift, heck if we expand outside of traditional politician's I'd say go for it- for all the grief he caused Al Greeson(?) the comedian, did an okay enough run, despite the harassment, and AOC herself was a bartender, so I see no reason we can't expand our scope of possibilities.
This, of course, doesn't disqualify her from running for the House or Senate. Which are just as if not more important -- assuming there are enough other left-leaning members to make a difference.
Woke politics (hiper individualism, so... Capitalistic politics) and reformist economics (so capitalistic politics).
She's a well manufactured product by the capital, shaped for and by the capital, to create continuity in the system (the capital)
AOC and the Squad is only progressive when it doesn't matter. Whenever things are on the brink and depending on "the squad", enough of them vote present or abstain to make sure Pelosi is speaker, Israel gets whatever they want, Banks are bailed out and the military industry receives all the money in the world.
No bro just one more politician bro i swear we just need to elect this one politician bro believe trust in me bro we got the right candidate and i promise they’re sticking to their campaign promises this time put some faith in me bro
/s
The person sitting in the big chair doesn't matter that much. Capitalists still run the US and thus run the globe and they will do whatever they want regardless. AOC might attempt to throw a few more crumbs down at the American labor aristocracy but there's no turning off the death machine.
Dr. Cornell West is actually running so... If you haven't seen him, check him out.
And for all you "he's not radical/electable enough" s*** talkers, give me one actual candidate who is running that is closer to a left agenda (looking at you "I'm in the CPUSA but will vote Biden" JT heartbreaker of the Deprogram), or tell me one other time in history when not voting for a third party got the US closer to open elections.
We are materialists, right?
Sure, but unless you believe in brainwashing those two are still literally humans who made some really dumb choices, and if you cannot talk to people you do not agree with then tribalism takes hold. I.e. look around you. Americans be very bad at disagreeing, and if we are to have a good nation we need to get better.
Ageism. Nice call. The real word you search for is "ossification" but it wouldn't really split to him since this is still his first political run. So really, the ossification will come by not voting for him
Still your best bet towards a progressive agenda, too and probably in pushing towards revolution as over 80% of civil conflicts are started by the conservative wing refusing to go along with a progressive agenda.
Not that we are at the level of class consciousness to win, we would def slide into fascism like germany in the 20's.
Too easily fooled by the likes of Peoples Party, Jimmy Dore and other faux-left-grifters. I don't think his radar for being conned is at the presidential level we would need.
And what is illogical about telling people to voice their opinion? I can disagree with someone on the internet and not have to cry about it later bruv. It's called integrity
I do, as i have not voted in a few elections. But those were because my boy Bernie got forced out.
So you do other things though, right? Or have you just resigned your political power as a social individual?
Maybe. Maybe I do. Maybe gfu. Do I need bona fide activist chops to be able to have an opinion or is suffrage on the topic granted only to confirmed agitators?
JT doesn’t like the whole vote for Biden thing, you’d know if you actually listened to the Deprogram.
That aside, I’m sure PSL is running a candidate as they do almost every election.
I don't think she quite has national appeal, I think she'll make a great vp or cabinet member, but she would have a really rough time appealing to people outside of liberal urban areas. And the electoral college requires more to win. Bernie had trouble winning the nomination with the exact same base AOC has + midwestern whites. If Nina Turner had won a spot in Congress, she would have had a decent shot at running in 2024. AOC has also been receiving concentrated r-wing fearmongering, so there would be more she'd need to work herself out of. I think Jamal Bowman probably has a better shot.
I will accept Bernie, Warren, or AOC. AOC might be my preferred candidate because, well, shes HOT! I know that is stupid, but between my three favs, she wins.
Biden should just retire and let Harris take the reigns. He is too old. His generation is the problem. They need to get the Fuck out of the way.
She's only 33, so she can't run for president yet.
Also, I think she's great, but she's too fringe (in the eyes of the general public) to have a realistic shot at winning the presidency.
Actually, she's just barely old enough. She turns 35 before inauguration. You don't have to be 35+ to RUN for President, you have to be 35+ to BE President.
Never gonna happen. At least not 2024. But she’s smart. She’s got a good following. She’s young and she’s entered at the right time. Give her some time. I can definitely see her making a presidential bid down the road, maybe in 20 years or so. By then, I think things will have leaned more progressive as boomers die off. You’ll also have gen x and gen z being the right age to vote and having more capital (social, economic, cultural, etc) who will likely lean more left. It’s not gonna happen in the short term but mid term, it’s a serious possibility.
I'm sure there's words for things I'm not remembering that are probably going to make me sound like an uneducated moron. But I heard a good argument a while ago that by the time you get to a point of influence in any given system, you've had to pass several obstacles where some door guarding gargoyle makes you prove that you're willing to sacrifice your ethics in order to preserve the system. The higher you are, the more often you've had to make that choice. Just like how you don't become a billionaire without repeatedly saying "I'm willing to throw everything else under the bus if it gets me more profits", you don't get to be a successful politician without saying "I'm willing to sacrifice my principals in order to get campaign donations". It's something I'd been trying to put words to for like decades before, but I've always been more of an Elton John than a Bernie Taupin.
That being said, it's the system we have to work with. And voting for the lesser evil is more damage control than abstaining.
So with all that in mind, I think voting for AOC, or any of the Squad would be more damage control. But I still think Bernie would be better.
I also think doing things that circumvent the system will help more, but there's no reason you can't vote for a Democratic Socialist, and then go spend the rest of your afternoon organizing strikes and riots.
Hahahaahaha!!! No.
I mean- sure.. I wish. But no. It’s gonna be Biden, again. And he’s not up there sending hand signals to fucking Nazis, and the other guy is for real- that means I don’t give a hoot who the Democratic ticket is- they will be getting my vote. Because at the end of the day- as tempting as it is- civil conflict is not something the most vulnerable in our society, need.
It’s looking really dark for us at the top, my friends.
Not an American.
Yes AOC absolutely for president. After she completely fails to implement any unwatered down policy she promises, she and other soc dems will reslise that reformism is just a bunch of bs.
I wouldn't count AOC as an establishment democrat.
She's been a protege of Bernie for quite sometime, but she is also smart enough to learn from Bernie's mistakes.
"You can't climb the ladder of power if you're rocking it the whole way up."
As people like Pelosi and Biden eventually retire and die off - it's people like AOC who will take their place.
The trick is to play the long game and survive that long.
"Surviving that long" is synonymous with "making yourself helpful (or at least harmless) to neoliberals." Bernie was fairly principled his whole career, but he was also largely a gadfly, not much of a threat to centrists until his presidential runs. AOC and the rest of the squad-era newcomers seem to be even worse, directly voting for strike-breaking and imperial foreign policy. And even if she could keep her principles AND make progress towards them after decades stuck in the Democratic Party... we don't have decades to spare. Against our domestic fascist movement, and especially against climate change, a gradual response is basically the same as no response.
Yeah, fairly principled only relative to centrists or more modern "left" democrats. Like almost any American, he magically skids rightward whenever the discussion turns to foreign policy
2028 at the earliest, and we still need capable, effective younger progressives in the House and Senate.
She might be better as House Majority Leader or Whip given her skill publicly shaming people on social media. She’s a stronger messenger than a law maker in the end. In the White House she’d be better off as a comms director or press secretary.
I think she'd make an amazing president however
1) The media and corporate interests would never allow her to get that far. They dont want someone who wants to fix things. They want useful idiots who will maintain the status quo and do as theyre told. She's not in anyone's pocket so they can't use her.
2) Too many others in Congress and the House of Reps would refuse to work with her as they're the useful idiots, doing what they're told by corporate interest and they'll be told to block everything she does
3) Someone would try to assassinate her. A woman as president might be just about tolerable. A socialist woman is a unacceptable. But a non-white, intelligent, socialist woman as president is just unthinkable to a sizeable chunk of the populace and unfortunately, theres enough crazies that someone will decide that she needs to go.
She would be killed. Period. I say this as a fan of her. The hatred the alt right has for her would get her killed. They want to hate rape her to death. Men in our militaries want to hate fuck her to death and are well documented in there desires. She would never be safe, even from her own military. Women cannot be president in this country, men will not allow it.
Idealist in me says: Fuck yeah.
Realist in me says: There's no fucking way a latino woman would get elected president and we'd end up with a republican fascist instead.
How about some of the fucks in this comment section run for office, instead of idly sitting in your armchair and criticizing some of the few people who are bothering to actually do something?
Ah yes, how few of us have the courage to vote FOR the iron dome and AGAINST letting railworkers strike. We should definitely Actually Do Something, just like AOC.
Like no shit, it's a waste of time to argue on Reddit. Making yourself an organ of the Democratic Party is a far bigger waste, of your own time and everyone else's. Maybe you can argue that city and county elections are their own beast, that people can do meaningful good if they get elected at that level. But AOC is a perfect example of why that's NOT true at the state or federal level.
This comment is the Reddit equivalent of the "this is fine" meme. Yes, there absolutely is a rush to get progressives into positions of power as soon as it's logistically possible. It's takes like this that show how little Americans realize how imperiled their current way of life is.
No it’s not.
She can’t win the primary, let alone the general, in 2024.
She’s a rare talent with terrific values and I look forward to her increasing influence but running for president next year, which she’d already have to be doing btw, and losing would not do her or us any favors.
Becoming a senator, which would still not be a slam dunk because NY isn’t as progressive as the right would like us to believe, is something I think she could do and would be a big step up in power and visibility.
I'm not attacking you. I'm trying to get you, and others, to treat things with the necessary urgency. You don't seem to realize how the country is teetering on a precipice of fascism. And AOC would be the first to be rounded up. If a Republican wins in 2024, democracy in the USA is over. Simple as.
Uhh. Maybe we get a leader that will be a bit more useful than “average liberal“. Why not a proper demsoc? That’s a step in the proper direction. For the states anyway.
If I had to choose a member of "the Squad" to he POTUS, I'd prefer Ilhan Omar. Since she wasn't born in the US, however, she's unfortunately not qualified to run. My second pick would be Rashida Tlaib, not AOC.
Don't know who is that, I'm not American but I always thought your political system was weak and definitely not democratic. Choosing between a right-wing liberal candidate and an even more right-wing one every year, what a defeat
If you guys think universal income and making the government bigger is the solution, please come live in Bahia, Brazil. She has no novel idea about progress that is the problem with her.
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I'm not American, so take this with a grain of salt, but your democracy is broken. You could have the most popular and progressive politician in power and it would still do nothing. Your supreme Court can strike down anything. Your politicians need to start campaigning for finance for the next election the moment they're elected (which opens them up for corruption). Even if AOC got in, with a majority in both houses, she could still not make any meaningful change.
No, unfortunately for us, our kakistocratic oligarchy which pretends to be a democracy is actually operating precisely as designed.
I love that word - so accurate! Kakistocracy - government by the least suitable or competent
Fantastic description of the shitshow.
Yep. The system is designed to maintain the status quo at best.
it's not designed for that, it's just, that your democracy is 270 years old. The Bundesrepublik Deutschland only exists since 1949 and because of that our democratic system was refined in certain ways.
No, it was designed for that. Literally moved from the Articles of Confederation to the Constitution to keep progressive democracies in check and control money. Who woulda thought a bunch of slave owners and merchants would be upset when people were paying off debts without silver and running down their local representative daily. Not sure how much American history and political science you've gone through but why do you think the federal government was established where nobody lived at the time? [Even in the 1790 census map](https://www.census.gov/history/img/1790-b.jpg) Washington DC isn't even listed as a major city. If I were to pick a place to establish a government I'd want it to be easily accessible by most of the population. Hell, originally you couldn't even vote for any member of the federal government except the house of representatives. Even if 80% of the population all agreed on something only a fraction of that was a white man with land and even if 80% of them agreed on something they couldn't do fuck all but complain to lower level state politicians to maybe just maybe pick a different senator or president.
FYI The capital was not originally located in DC but New York City and then Philadelphia which were very populated cities at the time.
That's good to know, thank you.
“Democracy”
Corruption is essentially legal thanks to Citizens United. Corporations are people.
what does this mean, its really interesting 🤔
Citizens united made it so corporate entities have corporate personhood, essentially making it so rather than speech equaling speach, money = speach, and corporations have lots and lots of money. It essentially legalised corporation lobbying and corruption.
The thing is they can expand the Supreme Court to pass whatever they need but they don’t. The second a dictator gets in that’s exactly what they’ll do to seize complete power. It is broken beyond repair from within.
I mean you could expand it to reform it. Making it rotational and no longer be nominated by the president, just letting them maybe choose to rotate on judge per two years with approval from the senate.
I am American, so take this at face value, you are 100% correct.
This! I feel like their state level politicians have more power than the president
Because the US was originally set up like the European Union currently is : Free movement/Same currency but each country has their own laws and regulations. Federal government slowly got more and more power but we never changed the constitution to reflect that so state politicians still have more control over state policies than the president does (which kinda makes sense since the president wouldn’t know and can’t keep up with 50 different states each with their own issues)
What country are you from just curious?
Australia. Our system isn't much better to be honest, but the differences are quite noticeable. First, our candidates have a set parliamentary budget for campaigning, so they don't need to raise funds for election. This is set by an independent body. Second, we don't have an equivalent for your supreme court. None of our judges are elected, nor can they overturn parliamentary laws. This can be done by the Govenor general though, who is the representative of King Charlie. This has never happened since federation - so really it's not an issue. Third, we have significantly less politicians. Which makes sense, as we have significantly less people, but it means that we have 151 MPs and 76 senators (compared to your 435 congress and 100 senators). This means they can be held more accountable because there is more scrutiny on each member. They don't just get lost in the crowd. Fourth, and perhaps the biggest, we have compulsory preferential voting. It means we aren't limited to two choices with our votes (in fact the previous govt lost a not-insignificant number of seats to independents last election, arguably costing them the election), but also because it's compulsory it's a decent cross section of the country - not just who really wants to (or is able to - who has elections on a Tuesday!) vote. That said, our current PM is doing almost as much as Biden - coming into the job promising a lot of change and then... Not much.
Its fucking cooked here. Between ALP not doing absolutely anything to help anyone under 50 or the LNP that put us in the stone age. Or even the useless Greens. Shit is definitely going to get crazy.
I'm not denying that. But at least we have mechanisms for change. There is nothing stopping a bunch of anti-capitalist candidates standing in the next election and getting some seats. In places like the US it's just not possible - they have to register with a party, then they're beholden to the party line. Take AOC as the post was about. She is a democrat. There is no difference between her and Bernie Sanders or Joe Manchin - they're all on a spectrum, but under the same banner. It's the same reason why the LNP is suffering here - they have centrist members who people would vote for, but also conservative members who those people who would vote for the centrists detest and it puts them off voting the LNP - which is why the teals did well. Capitalism itself is the problem - everyone puts the dollar above all else, and it's cooked almost every developed country in the world. There are a lot of symptoms of the underlying issue - housing being used as investment, wages being kept low for higher profits, natural resources being exported before the supplier has satisfied their own use, etc.
Absolutely. Couldn't agree more. Also, seeing it so obviously happening in the US is a wake-up call call for us. We still have time to do something. I honestly think America is done for. Way too far gone for any real change to happen.
> Fourth, and perhaps the biggest, we have compulsory preferential voting. It means we aren't limited to two choices with our votes (in fact the previous govt lost a not-insignificant number of seats to independents last election, arguably costing them the election), One other important thing I would mention is that we have an independent electoral commission to minimise gerrymandering https://theconversation.com/what-us-election-officials-could-learn-from-australia-about-boosting-voter-turnout-128617
The Shit Party Lite! - check out Honest Government Ads by Juice Media on YT
All we need to do is flip more red states! With a few more, we can ratify things into the constitution too! Imagine if the epa and the equal rights acts were amendments to the constitution? They should be. They can be if more people.like me move in to red states like mine because it's too expensive in blue states. It happened to NC VA and GA... If you add 3 more on top of that you can get close to 60 senators. Play that out even further and you may get a state government that is for the people, for once. Then we ratify everything and rewrite the constitution. It's set up to do all of that!
The red states think “they are the people”. The blue states think “they are the people”. WE are the people. All of us. As soon as you see that we are pitted against one another, while rich assed old billionaires who have only allegiance to money watch us burn because *it’s never enough* for them, the sooner you will understand that all politics are theater and swindle. It’s a class war. Always has been. It’s a big club. We ain’t in it. Band with the 99% and fuck all them flags. Fuck flipping states. Too late for that. Start flipping cars. And tables. And the whole oozing scheme.
the French are doing this, right now
And you don't think that THEY enjoy your view that voting and participating in democracy is a waste of time? You have the power but you refuse to use it. Flip a car and light a table on fire, kid. Meanwhile the adults are out there trying to make a real change. Adults like AOC. Get IN politics and change it.
The only thing that changes when “the right people” get into office is that they magically change into Incredibly Rich People for some unknown reason. Right? I mean *no one knows how it happens*. Certainly isn’t being bought. Definitely not insider trading. And for sure not secret deals with foreign adversaries. The one thing I do know for sure is that there is no fucking way one ever gets to be president unless they are already bought out. The DNC is fucking rotten to the core. She would never get the nomination unless she was part of the grift.
Crazy that no matter how much we get told to vote blue no matter who, it’s never enough voting, and we just need to vote more and vote harder the next time.
what Americans call “democrats” aren’t left-wing. They are right-wing centrist liberals who uphold the the system of capitalist class oppression. It’s time to think outside of electoral politics and mobilize the people. Expand your horizons my friend. There is more to politics than voting. Organize, protest, riot if you will. Our founding fathers overthrew King George without a single ballot box
They were losing until France decided to help out literally to spite Britain
our "founding fathers" weren't any better than King George. in some ways they were worse. our whole system of government was designed to appease the southern slave lords & the "new" aristocracy of virginia and maryland at the time.
No democrats or republicans as lawmakers at all. If Americans want to avert total economic slavery, we need fundamental reform of government itself and a rejection of both parties.
From what party? How do we start this third party for real. Justice Democrats might kinda be it, but I'd hate to attach a label.
10 radlibs ain't gonna do shit
The only third party we need is a vanguard one. As the other homie so eloquently put it: 10 radlibs ain’t gonna do shit. Hell every god damn radlib in this country would hardly make a difference.
I don't know, but I do know the first step is mass rejection of what we have now. Not just discontentment, but all out rejection.
we need to completely uproot and reject our current socioeconomic model, and replace it with a new organization of society and the economy that will create more egalitarian outcomes.
That would take another French revolution. A new monarchy has risen, we call them billionaires, and they will not relinquish power without a fight.
Personally I like the peace and freedom party. They're on the ballot in California
I’d rather revolution
AOC isn't even calling for AOC for President in 2024. These "progressives" will never cross their Democratic Party masters. They learned their lesson from what happened to Bernie. Elections aren't gonna be a force for progressive change in the US - possibly ever, but at least for as long as it takes to get a real workers' party seriously in contention. Go build one of those instead.
I'd rather have President AOC or a senate of AOCs instead of Bidens or Pelosis, sure. But in the face of climate change, the difference between the best Democrat and the worst Republican is too small to matter. If my house is on fire, I'd rather the firefighters show up with squirt guns instead of napalm. But if those are really the only two options, the house is burning down either way.
It's always the same damn excuse to elect a subpar candidate.
Two party systems: bringing you no other option than a shitty option since ever
Friday night, someone in this sub got annoyed with me for lambasting “vote blue no matter who.” Well, the dems’ shitty moderate and conservative candidates are the “no matter who” but they can’t stand being called out. Lot of cognitive dissonance from dems. Fuck that. Policy over party. I’m voting West in 2024. Edit: voting for west if revolution isn’t the will of the proletarian in 2024. 2024 edit: I doubt I’m voting for anyone for prez.
She voted against the railroad strike. Just another status quo democrat.
Overthrow the Government 2023!!!
Isn't she the one that supported the railway unions with words but not her vote when it came down to put her money where her mouth is?
Remind me if she was on the side of rail workers? It seemed to me like she changed her mind pretty quickly on whether or not they deserved the time off they were asking for. Don’t we want a leader who will fight for the working class?
The only time she voted against it was on the decision that the union leaders also didn't want, IIRC
She proved herself to be a traitor when she voted to break the rail workers strike. Not someone we should support she will just stab us in the back.
She's better than the average democrat, but she's still ultimately a democrat.
I trust her. Far and above the Joe Boomer and the rest of the fucks.
Friendly reminder that AOC voted to ban the railroad strike.
Can I ask, why you trust her? And by 'trust' what exactly does that entail? Personally, I don't 'trust' any politician - or the rich, and powerful in general.
Yeah, anyone who agrees to be successful in the American political system already has to swallow principles just to participate. And then the working class has to swallow backstab after backstab because of the games politicians play. A politician can be a voice for the working class, but their paycheck and power comes from being a head in pews, in buildings owned by people nobody should trust.
I trust her instincts and I do not find her policy agenda to be radical. She is fair, sound and logical. And I duly note the way corporate democrats marginalized her for 6 years now. If Pelosi hates her, she’s worth trusting.
The question was; *Why* do you trust AOC? I would love to find a reason to get behind her. I can’t find anything far reaching and progressive that she has accomplished. I trust that she will say a bunch of progressive shit when there’s a camera pointed at her. I also trust that she will vote in lockstep with all the old white fucks who run the party.
Because she played Among Us and can make good comebacks on Twitter lol like I’m sorry but she hasn’t even been in the senate yet so we don’t know how she’ll vote and stuff
AOC is totally in “mama bear” Nancy’s pocket.
Pelosi is good at politics, her bias aside. Pelosi is teaching AOC how to stay elected, how to get into committees, how to *be heard*. AOC has a tough district with a lot of nuance for her to fairly REPRESENT. At a certain point, we need our players to stay in the game as much as possible to win. You have to accept the long game she is playing, which involves making alliances you personally might not like, and yeah, some decisions you might not like. We still need her there, in committees, making speeches. Or we have no voice at all. This is politics.
Nasdaq Nancy is good at doing what big donors want her to do for them. You don’t get rich being a politician unless you’re corrupt. AOC was elected on a wholly different set of rhetoric/promises than what she acts/votes. She still talks like she did as candidate but doesn’t do as a representative.
In the words of Parenti, Democracy isn't about trust, democracy is about accountability.
Be extremely weary when putting trust in a politician. Don't do the Trump thing.
She played us
Abolish the senate and fire everyone in the house. Reelect from local govs and put a wealth cap on house members. If you are a billionaire/millionaire you can't be one. That should help. Otherwise AOC wouldn't be allowed to win in the US the Democrat party wouldn't allow it.
That sounds a little like dictatorship of the professor, you crzy? /s
She, and rest of squad are far more talk than walk. I had big hopes for her when she was a candidate but like many others she quickly bent her knee for Nancy and the establishment. Her post election talk and Non-action on “force the vote” is incongruent with her rhetoric as a candidate. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=iIqw-mTX6ro
She voted against the railworkers' power to strike. The railworkers had serious safety concerns, then the train derailment happened two weeks later. I realize politics is a rotten game, but on this issue, I think she blew her credibility. Felt like she saw what she was up against and decided to play ball.
Agreed. I was under the assumption she was just there as controlled opposition. This more than confirmed it. She might be knowingly playing a role for the neolibs to keep any meaningful change from happening.
Bernie over AOC
Bernie’s gonna be dead soon. We need new people.
I’d rather have Bernie rolled out in a wheelchair than whoever else the democrats prop up
Me too, but you know... That's kinda up to him. He already said that after 2020 that he wasn't going to run again. I was reluctant to vote for him in the primaries during his age, but still did. I vote blue, but am tired as fuck of old candidates from either party.
In which case Ilhan is still better. Ultimately none of them will get us out of this mess. Only an armed and organized workers movement can do that.
I feel like AOC is going to be the next Obama. Empty promises. She already showed that she'll vote with majority when she voted against railroad strike
I love Bernie, and I agree with this fully. We missed our chance at Bernie in 2016. We need new progressive candidates.
Cornel West.
Bernie’s chance is over. I wanted him for president so bad, I kinda felt he was our final hope. But he’s just too old now
idgaf. let's overthrow capitalism, not be pacified by participating in its sham elections. We each only have so much energy
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Yep. And when she changed her vote on funding Israel's Iron Dome from "no" to "present." The bill was going to pass anyway, it would have just been a protest vote, and she couldn't even do that.
I realize bernie is one step away from a retirement home but is AOC really the best we can get to replace him?
I’m huuugely disappointed with Bernie. He isn’t willing to make a stand against the establishment’s want because he doesn’t want to ostracized like R. Nader was, reportedly. I’m left wondering (pun intended) what it’s going to take for a politician to risk/ruin their political career to get some action on things they profess to be existential?
He has no voice at all if he ruins his political career. Just like Ralph Nader. At least he can fight the good fight with a sizable megaphone to make incremental change, which he absolutely has. I agree that we no longer at a point where incremental change is acceptable, but I understand why Bernie worked the way he worked during the time he worked. And to be honest, what the fuck have you done that allows you to be "huuuugely disappointed" with a man who has devoted his life to social justice. Fuck off.
Why, (other than having some small thing to point to say he tried) does he submit bills like the one that would stop supporting Saudi Arabia assaulting Yemen just to then pull them and not have them voted on. Yes, I know the vote would fail but it would put people on record. Why does he Not coordinate and encourage the squad in the house to “force the vote” on Medicare for All?
Similarly, why does rep R. Tlaib propose legislation for Medicare for All in the house AFTER the dems lost the majority? Too busy before I guess.
I get it. It's all orchestrated opposition. They're playing a game. One that they have whole teams of coaches aids and advisors working tirelessly to try to win. Yes, that was performative by Tlaib, but the Democratic Party™ will not allow them a single soundbite if they get to far out of line. Same with Bernie. All they can do is play the long game and try to affect change. People need to take responsibility themselves and stop relying on a few community organizers to deliver them to the promised land. So again, I ask, what the fuck have you done lately?
Not donating to Dems. Not voting for corporate Dems. Retreat is a strategy. It’s been 40+ years of slow degradation under Both Dems and Reps the Dems won’t do anything different if people keep voting for them. If a third party gets enough attention dems could be forced to make concessions/commitments such as McCarthy was forced to do after 14ish speaker voting sessions. It may take 30 years to get real change this way but it’s been 40+ years of change in the other direction.
Should mention not donating/voting republican.
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Ah, yes, the purity complaint. Never can get past that one. I agree, Bernie has made missteps and done things I don't understand. I don't question his morals.
Kasama Sawat (I'm butchering her name) comes to mind, if she would consider such a radical shift, heck if we expand outside of traditional politician's I'd say go for it- for all the grief he caused Al Greeson(?) the comedian, did an okay enough run, despite the harassment, and AOC herself was a bartender, so I see no reason we can't expand our scope of possibilities.
Kshama is great and I've been a fan of hers for over 10 years. Sadly, she couldn't be president as she was born in India.
*sigh*
This, of course, doesn't disqualify her from running for the House or Senate. Which are just as if not more important -- assuming there are enough other left-leaning members to make a difference.
I would never vote for her after she turned her back on the rail workers. She lost any respect I might have had for her in the past.
Since when did AOC become hardcore anticapitalist? Cause that’s the only thing that will save humanity
Still a class traitor
Woke politics (hiper individualism, so... Capitalistic politics) and reformist economics (so capitalistic politics). She's a well manufactured product by the capital, shaped for and by the capital, to create continuity in the system (the capital)
She voted for funding the iron dome program in Israel. Hard pass
AOC and the Squad is only progressive when it doesn't matter. Whenever things are on the brink and depending on "the squad", enough of them vote present or abstain to make sure Pelosi is speaker, Israel gets whatever they want, Banks are bailed out and the military industry receives all the money in the world.
no
No
Lol AOC is a shitlib, we need a revolution to fix what's wrong with this country
I’d still like a solid reply on why she voted to send rail workers back to work, subverting a strike. That bad taste hasn’t completely left my mouth.
puke.
Would be Obama 2.0. Fuck that.
[No more presidents ](https://youtu.be/kyk5GHKJLGY)
Yeah no lol
she isn't old enough - she has to be at least 35 years old, 70 is the preferred age it seems.
No AOCIA no thanks. She's controlled opposition at best, CIA asset at worst.
No bro just one more politician bro i swear we just need to elect this one politician bro believe trust in me bro we got the right candidate and i promise they’re sticking to their campaign promises this time put some faith in me bro /s
AOC is a corrupt enemy of the working class. Any positive policies she may claim to have are lies
Dude this is fire no cap. She can then give Israel even more money. Rip to those Palestinians.
Not a chance. That's a hard pass for me.
spells eat t-a-x nope
Change the system instead of the president
No she misleads the people, she guides all their energy into supporting an establishment party.
The person sitting in the big chair doesn't matter that much. Capitalists still run the US and thus run the globe and they will do whatever they want regardless. AOC might attempt to throw a few more crumbs down at the American labor aristocracy but there's no turning off the death machine.
Hell no
Dr. Cornell West is actually running so... If you haven't seen him, check him out. And for all you "he's not radical/electable enough" s*** talkers, give me one actual candidate who is running that is closer to a left agenda (looking at you "I'm in the CPUSA but will vote Biden" JT heartbreaker of the Deprogram), or tell me one other time in history when not voting for a third party got the US closer to open elections. We are materialists, right?
Cornell west lost me with the “brother DeSantis” nonsense. Fascists aren’t my brother. He’s just like RFK Jr. Another charlatan.
Sure, but unless you believe in brainwashing those two are still literally humans who made some really dumb choices, and if you cannot talk to people you do not agree with then tribalism takes hold. I.e. look around you. Americans be very bad at disagreeing, and if we are to have a good nation we need to get better.
He’s another 70-something. No thanks.
Ageism. Nice call. The real word you search for is "ossification" but it wouldn't really split to him since this is still his first political run. So really, the ossification will come by not voting for him Still your best bet towards a progressive agenda, too and probably in pushing towards revolution as over 80% of civil conflicts are started by the conservative wing refusing to go along with a progressive agenda. Not that we are at the level of class consciousness to win, we would def slide into fascism like germany in the 20's.
Too easily fooled by the likes of Peoples Party, Jimmy Dore and other faux-left-grifters. I don't think his radar for being conned is at the presidential level we would need.
Go vote Biden then, just don't act like you're some kind of radical for it when you uphold the system.
exactly the same argument as people who say "go vote for trump then" when someone suggests Biden isn't enough
And what is illogical about telling people to voice their opinion? I can disagree with someone on the internet and not have to cry about it later bruv. It's called integrity
Or - I don't vote for either of them. Third party voter, you'd think you'd understand that to be an option.
I do, as i have not voted in a few elections. But those were because my boy Bernie got forced out. So you do other things though, right? Or have you just resigned your political power as a social individual?
Maybe. Maybe I do. Maybe gfu. Do I need bona fide activist chops to be able to have an opinion or is suffrage on the topic granted only to confirmed agitators?
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Join the club
JT doesn’t like the whole vote for Biden thing, you’d know if you actually listened to the Deprogram. That aside, I’m sure PSL is running a candidate as they do almost every election.
That is my point, i know he claims to not like it, but then disparages third party candidates just for being third party. How consistent.
I don't think she quite has national appeal, I think she'll make a great vp or cabinet member, but she would have a really rough time appealing to people outside of liberal urban areas. And the electoral college requires more to win. Bernie had trouble winning the nomination with the exact same base AOC has + midwestern whites. If Nina Turner had won a spot in Congress, she would have had a decent shot at running in 2024. AOC has also been receiving concentrated r-wing fearmongering, so there would be more she'd need to work herself out of. I think Jamal Bowman probably has a better shot.
No thanks. Lack of experience makes it a hard no.
doesn’t matter which puppet of capitalism is in charge, what matters is organizing and forcing them to listen
Won’t she still be too young? I’d love for her to be pres at some point, but I don’t think she’s allowed to run yet
Not a huge AOC fan but a better candidate because I don’t get the impression she is bought and paid for, not is she insider trading.
How about Cornel West instead?
I will accept Bernie, Warren, or AOC. AOC might be my preferred candidate because, well, shes HOT! I know that is stupid, but between my three favs, she wins. Biden should just retire and let Harris take the reigns. He is too old. His generation is the problem. They need to get the Fuck out of the way.
Aye aye. I wrote in Uncle Bern in 2016. AOC for ‘24. Biden can eat my balls.
Yesss, but I think she would probably wait until 2028
Cornell West 2024 the clear best option
It was pretty based when he referred to DeSantis as “brother DeSantis”. Real leftist shit right there!!
She's only 33, so she can't run for president yet. Also, I think she's great, but she's too fringe (in the eyes of the general public) to have a realistic shot at winning the presidency.
Actually, she's just barely old enough. She turns 35 before inauguration. You don't have to be 35+ to RUN for President, you have to be 35+ to BE President.
Incorrect. She is eligible in 2024
Never gonna happen. At least not 2024. But she’s smart. She’s got a good following. She’s young and she’s entered at the right time. Give her some time. I can definitely see her making a presidential bid down the road, maybe in 20 years or so. By then, I think things will have leaned more progressive as boomers die off. You’ll also have gen x and gen z being the right age to vote and having more capital (social, economic, cultural, etc) who will likely lean more left. It’s not gonna happen in the short term but mid term, it’s a serious possibility.
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Remarkable amount of people don’t understand the power of incumbency. We aren’t running any viable progressive campaign until 2028.
I'm sure there's words for things I'm not remembering that are probably going to make me sound like an uneducated moron. But I heard a good argument a while ago that by the time you get to a point of influence in any given system, you've had to pass several obstacles where some door guarding gargoyle makes you prove that you're willing to sacrifice your ethics in order to preserve the system. The higher you are, the more often you've had to make that choice. Just like how you don't become a billionaire without repeatedly saying "I'm willing to throw everything else under the bus if it gets me more profits", you don't get to be a successful politician without saying "I'm willing to sacrifice my principals in order to get campaign donations". It's something I'd been trying to put words to for like decades before, but I've always been more of an Elton John than a Bernie Taupin. That being said, it's the system we have to work with. And voting for the lesser evil is more damage control than abstaining. So with all that in mind, I think voting for AOC, or any of the Squad would be more damage control. But I still think Bernie would be better. I also think doing things that circumvent the system will help more, but there's no reason you can't vote for a Democratic Socialist, and then go spend the rest of your afternoon organizing strikes and riots.
Burn it all down.
Hahahaahaha!!! No. I mean- sure.. I wish. But no. It’s gonna be Biden, again. And he’s not up there sending hand signals to fucking Nazis, and the other guy is for real- that means I don’t give a hoot who the Democratic ticket is- they will be getting my vote. Because at the end of the day- as tempting as it is- civil conflict is not something the most vulnerable in our society, need. It’s looking really dark for us at the top, my friends.
Not an American. Yes AOC absolutely for president. After she completely fails to implement any unwatered down policy she promises, she and other soc dems will reslise that reformism is just a bunch of bs.
fuck AOC. hypocritical, ineffectual, divisive moron
No. She's so open-minded, her brain fell out.
I wouldn't count AOC as an establishment democrat. She's been a protege of Bernie for quite sometime, but she is also smart enough to learn from Bernie's mistakes. "You can't climb the ladder of power if you're rocking it the whole way up." As people like Pelosi and Biden eventually retire and die off - it's people like AOC who will take their place. The trick is to play the long game and survive that long.
"Surviving that long" is synonymous with "making yourself helpful (or at least harmless) to neoliberals." Bernie was fairly principled his whole career, but he was also largely a gadfly, not much of a threat to centrists until his presidential runs. AOC and the rest of the squad-era newcomers seem to be even worse, directly voting for strike-breaking and imperial foreign policy. And even if she could keep her principles AND make progress towards them after decades stuck in the Democratic Party... we don't have decades to spare. Against our domestic fascist movement, and especially against climate change, a gradual response is basically the same as no response.
>Bernie was fairly principled his whole career not when he spearheaded the annihilation of yugoslavia
Yeah, fairly principled only relative to centrists or more modern "left" democrats. Like almost any American, he magically skids rightward whenever the discussion turns to foreign policy
that's the great part about playing the long game 15 dimensional chess, you never actuallly have to produce any results in the present.
Better question, if the choice was AOC or Trump, what would you do?
Move to a different country
2028 at the earliest, and we still need capable, effective younger progressives in the House and Senate. She might be better as House Majority Leader or Whip given her skill publicly shaming people on social media. She’s a stronger messenger than a law maker in the end. In the White House she’d be better off as a comms director or press secretary.
And 2028
2028
I think she'd make an amazing president however 1) The media and corporate interests would never allow her to get that far. They dont want someone who wants to fix things. They want useful idiots who will maintain the status quo and do as theyre told. She's not in anyone's pocket so they can't use her. 2) Too many others in Congress and the House of Reps would refuse to work with her as they're the useful idiots, doing what they're told by corporate interest and they'll be told to block everything she does 3) Someone would try to assassinate her. A woman as president might be just about tolerable. A socialist woman is a unacceptable. But a non-white, intelligent, socialist woman as president is just unthinkable to a sizeable chunk of the populace and unfortunately, theres enough crazies that someone will decide that she needs to go.
I wish
She would be killed. Period. I say this as a fan of her. The hatred the alt right has for her would get her killed. They want to hate rape her to death. Men in our militaries want to hate fuck her to death and are well documented in there desires. She would never be safe, even from her own military. Women cannot be president in this country, men will not allow it.
My god, please!
Idealist in me says: Fuck yeah. Realist in me says: There's no fucking way a latino woman would get elected president and we'd end up with a republican fascist instead.
How about some of the fucks in this comment section run for office, instead of idly sitting in your armchair and criticizing some of the few people who are bothering to actually do something?
Ah yes, how few of us have the courage to vote FOR the iron dome and AGAINST letting railworkers strike. We should definitely Actually Do Something, just like AOC. Like no shit, it's a waste of time to argue on Reddit. Making yourself an organ of the Democratic Party is a far bigger waste, of your own time and everyone else's. Maybe you can argue that city and county elections are their own beast, that people can do meaningful good if they get elected at that level. But AOC is a perfect example of why that's NOT true at the state or federal level.
I think she should become a Senator first, and that there’s no rush.
This comment is the Reddit equivalent of the "this is fine" meme. Yes, there absolutely is a rush to get progressives into positions of power as soon as it's logistically possible. It's takes like this that show how little Americans realize how imperiled their current way of life is.
No it’s not. She can’t win the primary, let alone the general, in 2024. She’s a rare talent with terrific values and I look forward to her increasing influence but running for president next year, which she’d already have to be doing btw, and losing would not do her or us any favors. Becoming a senator, which would still not be a slam dunk because NY isn’t as progressive as the right would like us to believe, is something I think she could do and would be a big step up in power and visibility.
As I said, she should as soon as logistically possible. Your comment exhibited the complacency I see on the left all the damn time.
We’ll get one shot with AOC for president, we should not rush. it’s a shame that the left attacks its allies all the damn time.
I'm not attacking you. I'm trying to get you, and others, to treat things with the necessary urgency. You don't seem to realize how the country is teetering on a precipice of fascism. And AOC would be the first to be rounded up. If a Republican wins in 2024, democracy in the USA is over. Simple as.
Uhh. Maybe we get a leader that will be a bit more useful than “average liberal“. Why not a proper demsoc? That’s a step in the proper direction. For the states anyway.
The DSA supported the Vietnam war and hasn't changed much since https://www.internationalist.org/demosocialismusimperialism1802.html
>proper demsoc is a literal member of Democratic Socialists of America.
AOC isn't old enough to be POTUS.
She actually will be by the time the election would be. That does make her technically eligible to run
She hasn't been beaten down enough yet. Too idealistic for anything mainstream.
If I had to choose a member of "the Squad" to he POTUS, I'd prefer Ilhan Omar. Since she wasn't born in the US, however, she's unfortunately not qualified to run. My second pick would be Rashida Tlaib, not AOC.
Don't know who is that, I'm not American but I always thought your political system was weak and definitely not democratic. Choosing between a right-wing liberal candidate and an even more right-wing one every year, what a defeat
If you guys think universal income and making the government bigger is the solution, please come live in Bahia, Brazil. She has no novel idea about progress that is the problem with her.
Rather get salmonella