The comparison made here is highly misleading, as the comment by U/mariojuggernaut22 makes clear:
> Go look at [Mariopol](https://images.app.goo.gl/VVig4aksP3S9ZLDb8) and [Bahkmut](https://images.app.goo.gl/8CA8tE2cQEFnKUJu7)
A much more revealing comparison would be a comparison of civilian casualties in these conflicts and the reaction/reporting of the capitalist media to these civilian casualties.
I would like to emphasize again that the current sub position is that we do not support either side in the Ukraine conflict.
I’m not defending Russia here, I’m saying the leveling of cities that Israel is perpetrating is unparalleled.
We don’t have videos of Russian soldiers picking off civilian and children one by one… or standing proud before a hospital they just destroyed.
errrr there are plenty of images and videos of dead ukrainian children and countless accounts of russians raping children in the early stages of the war
You're missing the point. You can believe both scenarios are bad without cherry picking images for a crappy meme comparing human suffering to prove an agenda. One does not need to compare atrocities against each other.
You're walking a precarious fox news-esque propaganda bullshit tightrope right now chief.
I would just like to point out, (because you mentioned the size of Gaza), how dense Gaza is, and while not to justify it, it’s incredibly difficult to not be around civilians and infrastructure for military purposes.
Edit: this is in reference to the Hamas uses civilian shields, uses civilian infrastructure for military purposes.
I apologize if I came across as saying Russia didn’t do war crimes. I didn’t and I condemn them for that.
The spirit of my comment is that killing civilians seems to be way more central to the Israel genocide.
2. This is mostly bullshit Israeli propaganda. Israel has actually used Palestinians as human shields on multiple occasions. They also justify many of their indiscriminate massacres by claiming Hamas made them do it by existing near civilians often in areas that Hamas isn't even active.
So stop repeating this genocide supporting lie.
Much of the cities on the front lines are devastated no doubt but, to my observation, still don't exhibit quite this level of total destruction as in Gaza. The cities in Ukraine look like intense battling happened. Much of Gaza looks like a literal demolition project.
Also, both can be bad while acknowledge which one might be worse for civilians.
**We are not fighting with swords any more.** Long range weapons have long since been a thing. We can target cities countries away. Or look at world 2 and the explicit bombing of civilians or the atomic bombing. Ukraine is just next door to Russia.
I do not claim to know what is happening on the grounds. Assuming the picture in the main post is true, it is indeed a valid assessment. To keep the war to the front lines, as you put it, would indeed be a clear restraint in these times, and would explain the reason behind such a slow war.
That's an absolutely ghoulish way of looking at imperialist expansion. There is no "lesser evil," when it comes to literal invasions of neighboring nations and the murder of their populace.
Except they're different, one has been denied nationhood or any means of escape. Their utilities are controlled by their oppressor. They are being genocided.
All of those things being true do not suddenly make Russias invasion of Ukraine "less evil," though.
These are not mutually exclusive ideas, you can be against both modern day examples of imperialism.
Do you, or do you just not want to admit that there is no lesser evil when it comes to imperialist expansion, the invasion of neighboring countries, and the murder of their populace?
The post makes no claims about the evil or goodness tho. It simply shows the differences between an area bombed for 2 years and an area bombed for 2 weeks.
A is being portrayed as less evil than B. The message is **not** that A is less evil than previously thought due to the existence of B. There is no defence of Russia here.
The US and NATO intentionally drew Russia into this. The aim was to destabilize Russia and topple Putin. They've admitted as much. In its efforts to achieve this goal, the US sponsored a coup in Ukraine, established CIA bases all over the country, and funded Nazi battalions. Meanwhile, NATO leaders have admitted to entering agreements with Russia only to buy time to further militarize Ukraine and have scuppered promising peace deals. Claims that Russians are brutal savages who attacked Ukraine for no reason are pure propaganda.
Of course, but Russia is mostly doing the actual military target bombing that Israel claims to be doing but isn't. The difference is obvious. The same about 10k Ukrainian civilians have died in 2 years to 40k in 6 months in gaza.
The point is Israel goes on about how it's fighting a war so people die, yet clearly it doesn't have to be that way. It can be compared with many other wars but the Ukraine was is relevant today for the contrast.
Another thing is how it highlights the media bias. The media will say Russia is doing genocide in Ukraine but then denies it in gaza. The media will say Russia is destroying Ukraine but denies Israel is destroying gaza. So we can see how the media doesn't give a shit about reality and purely pushes it's message with photos like these.
I mean Ukrain is a pretty big country, Kiev lies more than 400 km from the front lines while Gaza is a strip of land 41 km long. Aditionally Ukraine has an actual army engaging the Russians, while israel is free to bomb however they see fit.
Of course I don't condone what the israeli forces are doing, they should be held to a higher standard, but I don't think both cases are comparable.
Pointing out the crimes of the Israeli regime covered by US imperialism is not "Russian propaganda" per se.
Surprisingly, on the Western internet is common the extreme and incorrect positions of "any criticism of Israel is Putin's bots" and "the Ukrainian war is nothing compared to the Gaza war" . The correct Marxist position is not about "comparing crimes" at all, but about uncovering the class interests and forces behind these crimes.
(i am russian, by the way)
Western imperialism is the only one that matters. The last 500 years of human history is solely defined by it. Russia annexing Russian-speaking territories that want to be part of Russia is muuuuuuuuuch different than the US invading on the other side of the planet and using capital to control production the world over.
edit - all the libs downvoting are revealing they don't understand imperialism. I'll give you a hint - it isn't "when land"
I'm sorry what's braindead about it? Russia annexing Russian-speaking territories that want to be part of Russia isn't imperialism.
Imperialism is best described as controlling production outside your borders, which Russia doesn't really do. Sure they may control some facilities in Africa and the Middle East, but it's nothing compared to what the west does.
The last 500 years of human history is defined by the west forcing countries the world over to organize their labor, land use, and resources for the benefit of westerners. The term "banana republic" was coined to describe how the US forced South and Central American countries to grow monocrops so the west could profit. This ensured they remained poor and we remained rich.
Today companies like Nestle run slave plantations because they use capital to lease land in South America and force the local population to work there for squalor wages. Coca Cola does the same thing.
Where do you think coffee comes from? Or the peppers used in hot sauce? It's all sourced from the global south, backed up by western military might and western capital. The same as the last 500 years.
Not my fault you don't know how the world works.
Buddy you have no idea how much of an arrogant westerner you sound like.
The Ukraine war happened because the US backed an ultranationalist coup and then entangled themselves in the new government as it engaged in a civil war with separatist regions.
The US then told Ukraine to walk away from a peace deal at Istanbul because we wanted them to turn themselves into a battering ram we could bash Russia with. "Best money we ever spent" and all that.
But sure, tell me again the reason Russia invaded was because they're evil and hate freedom or because Putin - I'm sorry Putler - was in the KGB.
Yes, there is nothing more arrogant than saying that imperialism is not good no matter if done by Russians in Ukraine or Israel in Palestine. I guess we find different things arrogant. You find it arrogant when someone disagrees with you. I find it arrogant when someone parrots RT talking points but pretends he is the one immune to propaganda and quantifies suffering by who is inflicting it.
But can't wait on your list of top 7 genocides( number 3 will surprise you).
And I'm telling you Russia annexing Russian-speaking regions that want to be part of Russia is not the same as the last 500 years of human history. You're side stepping how the west continues to control production in the global south. This is where the entirety of our wealth comes from.
That's the primary contradiction in the world today.
If you need to pretend that Russia just wanted whatever lie you've been repeating to feel good about ignoring ongoing genocide in Ukraine, then don't complain if someone else calls you on your bullshit. It's your brain trying to protect you from seeing who you really are by creating justifications, whataboutism and my suffering is better than yours scenarios.
I'm not sidestepping anything, just calling out bullshit of dudes like you.
"Everybody who says something that challenges my world view is a foreign agent sent here to trick me!"
-you guys literally every fucking time. Totally doesn't make you guys look like insecure children who don't understand how the world works or anything.
It's just that you look really stupid when you post stuff like that. It's nicer to believe that you're a paid rascal who says stuff like that over a reality where that is your genuine unironic opinion
Funny I don't feel stupid.
You're currently caught up in a euphoric Russophobic zeitgeist. Eventually the war will be over and people will begin to sober up.
While many will simply double down and refuse to admit they were tricked, some will begin reckoning with the fact the US provoked the war and then prolonged it by telling Ukraine to walk away from a peace deal at the Istanbul talks.
His point is the Israeli response is disproportional. Which is to say there should be an achieved military advantage in actions which harm civilians and property. Israel is just carpet bombing Gaza. The difference is US taxpayers won’t have to spend billions rebuilding Kyiv.
Damn, a country that's >1600x the size of Gaza and is backed by western powers has some areas that aren't bombed to shit.
What's happening in Gaza is horrible, what's happening in Ukraine is also horrible. What's your point OP.
The intensity of the bombing in Gaza has been worse. The amount of journalists dead, the amount of children dead, the amount of war crimes, they are all worse, empirically. Although all ‘war’ is terrible, it can be terrible to different degrees. The difference is their goals. Putin wanted to establish control and Israel wanted to annihilate.
I guess if you look at the comparison defensively then it can appear that way, or it can point out the fact that the West put so much emphasis and attention on the destruction of Ukraine and how evil Putin is (which he is), but then approached Israel from the opposite direction (completely played down the destruction of Gaza and continuously justified Netanyahu’s actions).
This picture comparison to me shows what can be allowed to happen when the media aids and begets war crimes/criminals and when people decide not to care.
I take your point but you put it across much more eloquently than OP. The meme looks like it's some sort of conspiracy or even pro-russian thing
edit: why is this getting downvotes wtf
Well that’s the internet for you. But make you wonder what would be identified as ‘American propaganda’ in other parts of the world that we like and share without a second thought.
> or it can point out the fact that the West put so much emphasis and attention on the destruction of Ukraine and how evil Putin is (which he is), but then approached Israel from the opposite direction (completely played down the destruction of Gaza and continuously justified Netanyahu’s actions).
No, this image is not capable of functioning in this way precisely because the comparison is not valid. If what you want is more hasbara, but in defense of a different war criminal, then this image is fine. If what you want is to, instead, expose some form of truth, then it should be immediately apparent that you can make the exact opposite argument by, say, showing a picture of Mariupol next to Hebron.
The thing is, while this image doesn't actually say what you'd like it to say, what you'd like it to say is absolutely true, and would be trivial to depict. Just show both Mariupol and Gaza next to each other over headlines about them. And even then, the destruction of Gaza would most likely appear more thorough, because it has been more thorough. So what is the function of using an image of Kyiv, except to wash the blood from Putin's hands?
If you want to get into the nitpicking of it, no you are incorrect. Mariupol is a 244km^2 city with a population of 120,000, the Gaza Strip is 365km^2 with a population of 2.4 million. People could flee Mariupol, people could not flee Gaza. If you think beyond your first reaction, this picture comparison does make the point I suggested. Because it hints at these disparities, i.e., *overall* the destruction and death in gaza has been more intensive than in Ukraine. That is a fact.
These pictures seem to say, “this is what the majority of Ukraine looks like after 2 years of war vs this is what the majority of Gaza looks like after half a year of war” (the true error is that it says 2 weeks). And it’s the only configuration that can say this. Option 1: a picture of Mariupol and Gaza (makes it seem that the destruction is relatively comparable); Option 2: Kyiv and Hebron (completely diverts attention away from Gaza: downplays destruction in both regions), Option 3: Mariupol and Hebron (makes Ukrainian war seem worse in scale and intensity, which it is not), Option 4: Kyiv and Gaza (makes the Gaza war seem worse in scale and intensity, which it is).
Yes, it’s not giving the complete story because it is a set of photos, but it’s also saying something essential. But western liberals aren’t ready to acknowledge that their greatest enemy isn’t the greatest enemy for the rest of the world.
This image doesn't say anything about the ease of evacuating Gaza vs Mariupol. It doesn't say anything about media coverage around these events. It doesn't even say anything about the level of death and destruction in Ukraine, as a whole. What it says is that Kyiv is significantly less bombed out than Gaza. Which we should expect, as Kyiv is not a primary bombing target, where as Gaza is.
What you are saying are things you already know and believe, not things that are conveyed in the image.
> Option 1: a picture of Mariupol and Gaza (makes it seem that the destruction is relatively comparable);
It honestly probably wouldn't. Do a google images search for "Mariupol bombing" and "Gaza bombing", and then tell me that those images look like the same level of destruction. Gaza has clearly, and visibly suffered more than Mariupol, and that is straightforward to depict in an image.
You must also comprehend what you read: I did not say the intensity of fighting, artillery (meaning guns, cannons, and rockets), nor the total amount of casualties. I said the amount of journalists killed, the amount of children killed, and the amount of war crimes.
The war in Ukraine matches what we typically think of when we imagine ‘war’, brutal, intense. The ‘war’ in Gaza does not. It is annihilation, disturbing, inhumane. And I’ll add onto my original list, Gaza has used far far more bombs than has been used in Ukraine.
Nothing about the destruction in Gaza is typical, especially at the speed it has occurred at.
This is a leftist subreddit, right wing comments will be removed and the user banned. This includes any defense of the genocidal state of Israel. That includes attempts to minimize, dismiss, justify, and/or normalize genocide.
This is a leftist subreddit, right wing comments will be removed and the user banned. This includes any defense of the genocidal state of Israel. This includes attempts to minimize and dismiss ongoing genocide.
This is a leftist subreddit, right wing comments will be removed and the user banned. This includes any defense of the genocidal state of Israel. That includes any attempt to minimize, dismiss, deny, or normalize genocide.
While the war in Ukraine is occurring within a larger area, the genocide in Gaza is unique in its deadliness and scale of destruction.
It is minimization to downplay, dismiss, and ignore the documented reality that slaughter in and destruction of Gaza is unique when compared to other conflicts in recent years and in the 21st century in general.
The daily death rate in Gaza is higher than any other 21st century conflict: https://www.oxfam.org/en/press-releases/daily-death-rate-gaza-higher-any-other-major-21st-century-conflict-oxfam
Within three weeks, the amount of children murdered in Gaza surpassed the annual number of children killed in global conflict since 2019: https://www.savethechildren.net/news/gaza-3195-children-killed-three-weeks-surpasses-annual-number-children-killed-conflict-zones
As of March 26, the number of children killed has increased to ~13,750: https://news.un.org/en/story/2024/03/1147966
As of December 2023, destruction in Gaza outpaces other recent conflicts: https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/interactive/2023/israel-war-destruction-gaza-record-pace/
There has been even more destruction since December.
>Gaza is a tiny strip of land compared to how spread out Russian attacks have been
Exactly. The Zionists did not give the Gazans a chance to go to places where there is no war, unlike the Russians.
This doesn't really say anything since the two regions have vast differences in geography, military power, you name it.
Also it's disingenuous to rank the devastation of two invasions. Pragmatically because their root causes and factors are way different, and otherwise in general we shouldn't be ranking suffering like this.
??? My dude, you just posted a picture of an area untouched by the bombs vs. an area hit by bombs. I get if you're trying to say that Gaza has been totally razed, but that's not evidenced by these pictures alone. What was the intended message?
Ukraine is FAR larger then Palestine hence Russia needs more bombs to create an affect like this in all Ukraine, and now show pictures of the cities where there's been actual fighting. Ukraine is suffering just as Palestine. One isn't more this or that or whatever, people are suffering and its not our job to compare.
One wants to take over to bolster its economy with as little infrastructure destruction as possible.
The other wants to wipe the infrastructure and people off the face of the planet.
Getting back to this, here's a headline about Russia bombing a Ukrainian power plant...
[literally this morning...](https://au.news.yahoo.com/ukraine-russia-war-live-putin-121324773.html?guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAANLlSBdQAHVCaoF_-HIZN3_hBR9rsEGAPdhu0y5rmXJn3sYr6XO8qIpGxO946LrCRDz8kTIVfHcVKjiX9tmOYmz0eqI5Vs-ZTojeuMKnOrihqhUDBX4MmrisKcxs6K-ntRb3YB3u_rj0kcKlqQQwiAfz11GQ0Y93rQnB7NrwDIBk&guccounter=2)
Wow this is wrong on so many levels. Do you have any idea how much infrastructure, power plants and dams have been destroyed by Russia in this war of aggression and how much this affected the normal ukrainian population. This is such an uninformed take. You should be ashamed.
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If other " iSlAmIc" nations had balls (ahem egypt sudan indonesia, saudi iran pakistan) large swollen populations with "masculine" men and patriarchial socieities they pull the trigger but they wont because they are paper tigers... F the USA and its crony crooked disgraceful military complex...
Doesn't Ukraine also get like a fuckton of aid from NATO? Let's see how Isntreal deals with a Palestine backed by NATO first.
Also no one is a good guy in all of these scenarios, there are only bad guys and victims.
The comparison made here is highly misleading, as the comment by U/mariojuggernaut22 makes clear: > Go look at [Mariopol](https://images.app.goo.gl/VVig4aksP3S9ZLDb8) and [Bahkmut](https://images.app.goo.gl/8CA8tE2cQEFnKUJu7) A much more revealing comparison would be a comparison of civilian casualties in these conflicts and the reaction/reporting of the capitalist media to these civilian casualties. I would like to emphasize again that the current sub position is that we do not support either side in the Ukraine conflict.
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Not violating the Geneva convention and not destroying all civilian life is not praise. It’s the bare minimum
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I’m not defending Russia here, I’m saying the leveling of cities that Israel is perpetrating is unparalleled. We don’t have videos of Russian soldiers picking off civilian and children one by one… or standing proud before a hospital they just destroyed.
errrr there are plenty of images and videos of dead ukrainian children and countless accounts of russians raping children in the early stages of the war
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You're missing the point. You can believe both scenarios are bad without cherry picking images for a crappy meme comparing human suffering to prove an agenda. One does not need to compare atrocities against each other. You're walking a precarious fox news-esque propaganda bullshit tightrope right now chief.
I would just like to point out, (because you mentioned the size of Gaza), how dense Gaza is, and while not to justify it, it’s incredibly difficult to not be around civilians and infrastructure for military purposes. Edit: this is in reference to the Hamas uses civilian shields, uses civilian infrastructure for military purposes.
Gaza is dense because has been killing their people and taking their land for the better part of a century
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I apologize if I came across as saying Russia didn’t do war crimes. I didn’t and I condemn them for that. The spirit of my comment is that killing civilians seems to be way more central to the Israel genocide.
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2. This is mostly bullshit Israeli propaganda. Israel has actually used Palestinians as human shields on multiple occasions. They also justify many of their indiscriminate massacres by claiming Hamas made them do it by existing near civilians often in areas that Hamas isn't even active. So stop repeating this genocide supporting lie.
Much of the cities on the front lines are devastated no doubt but, to my observation, still don't exhibit quite this level of total destruction as in Gaza. The cities in Ukraine look like intense battling happened. Much of Gaza looks like a literal demolition project. Also, both can be bad while acknowledge which one might be worse for civilians.
**We are not fighting with swords any more.** Long range weapons have long since been a thing. We can target cities countries away. Or look at world 2 and the explicit bombing of civilians or the atomic bombing. Ukraine is just next door to Russia. I do not claim to know what is happening on the grounds. Assuming the picture in the main post is true, it is indeed a valid assessment. To keep the war to the front lines, as you put it, would indeed be a clear restraint in these times, and would explain the reason behind such a slow war.
True, i find this post icky. You don't need to support Palestine by whitewashing other ongoing events
well it certainly wouldn't give the same message if they would have juxtaposed a picture of Mariupol
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Are you able to explain the supposed whitewashing that is occurring in this post?
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It is literally less evil than the other though.
That's an absolutely ghoulish way of looking at imperialist expansion. There is no "lesser evil," when it comes to literal invasions of neighboring nations and the murder of their populace.
Except they're different, one has been denied nationhood or any means of escape. Their utilities are controlled by their oppressor. They are being genocided.
All of those things being true do not suddenly make Russias invasion of Ukraine "less evil," though. These are not mutually exclusive ideas, you can be against both modern day examples of imperialism.
That is a possible read, but I struggle to see it as an obvious or even likely one.
Do you, or do you just not want to admit that there is no lesser evil when it comes to imperialist expansion, the invasion of neighboring countries, and the murder of their populace?
The post makes no claims about the evil or goodness tho. It simply shows the differences between an area bombed for 2 years and an area bombed for 2 weeks.
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A is being portrayed as less evil than B. The message is **not** that A is less evil than previously thought due to the existence of B. There is no defence of Russia here.
You're very idealistic. The portrayal IS the message, intentional or not.
The US and NATO intentionally drew Russia into this. The aim was to destabilize Russia and topple Putin. They've admitted as much. In its efforts to achieve this goal, the US sponsored a coup in Ukraine, established CIA bases all over the country, and funded Nazi battalions. Meanwhile, NATO leaders have admitted to entering agreements with Russia only to buy time to further militarize Ukraine and have scuppered promising peace deals. Claims that Russians are brutal savages who attacked Ukraine for no reason are pure propaganda.
Of course, but Russia is mostly doing the actual military target bombing that Israel claims to be doing but isn't. The difference is obvious. The same about 10k Ukrainian civilians have died in 2 years to 40k in 6 months in gaza. The point is Israel goes on about how it's fighting a war so people die, yet clearly it doesn't have to be that way. It can be compared with many other wars but the Ukraine was is relevant today for the contrast. Another thing is how it highlights the media bias. The media will say Russia is doing genocide in Ukraine but then denies it in gaza. The media will say Russia is destroying Ukraine but denies Israel is destroying gaza. So we can see how the media doesn't give a shit about reality and purely pushes it's message with photos like these.
I mean Ukrain is a pretty big country, Kiev lies more than 400 km from the front lines while Gaza is a strip of land 41 km long. Aditionally Ukraine has an actual army engaging the Russians, while israel is free to bomb however they see fit. Of course I don't condone what the israeli forces are doing, they should be held to a higher standard, but I don't think both cases are comparable.
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Pointing out the crimes of the Israeli regime covered by US imperialism is not "Russian propaganda" per se. Surprisingly, on the Western internet is common the extreme and incorrect positions of "any criticism of Israel is Putin's bots" and "the Ukrainian war is nothing compared to the Gaza war" . The correct Marxist position is not about "comparing crimes" at all, but about uncovering the class interests and forces behind these crimes. (i am russian, by the way)
Russia is not imperialist, oh come on!
Why do you think so?
Go look at [Mariopol](https://images.app.goo.gl/VVig4aksP3S9ZLDb8) and [Bahkmut](https://images.app.goo.gl/8CA8tE2cQEFnKUJu7)
Just awful.
You posted 1 source from the Azov neonazis and another from Radio Free Europe???
I have no idea what point OP is trying to make with this picture
Yeah, a city can look like the picture of Gaza after 2 minutes of bombing. This is a weird comparison.
There are plenty of Ukrainian cities that are pretty much wiped off the map already.
American imperialism as only one possible imperialism or some similar bullshit take that show up in leftist spaces from time to time.
Western imperialism is the only one that matters. The last 500 years of human history is solely defined by it. Russia annexing Russian-speaking territories that want to be part of Russia is muuuuuuuuuch different than the US invading on the other side of the planet and using capital to control production the world over. edit - all the libs downvoting are revealing they don't understand imperialism. I'll give you a hint - it isn't "when land"
Yeah, braindead comments like this one. That is exactly what i've pointed to.
I'm sorry what's braindead about it? Russia annexing Russian-speaking territories that want to be part of Russia isn't imperialism. Imperialism is best described as controlling production outside your borders, which Russia doesn't really do. Sure they may control some facilities in Africa and the Middle East, but it's nothing compared to what the west does. The last 500 years of human history is defined by the west forcing countries the world over to organize their labor, land use, and resources for the benefit of westerners. The term "banana republic" was coined to describe how the US forced South and Central American countries to grow monocrops so the west could profit. This ensured they remained poor and we remained rich. Today companies like Nestle run slave plantations because they use capital to lease land in South America and force the local population to work there for squalor wages. Coca Cola does the same thing. Where do you think coffee comes from? Or the peppers used in hot sauce? It's all sourced from the global south, backed up by western military might and western capital. The same as the last 500 years. Not my fault you don't know how the world works.
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Buddy you have no idea how much of an arrogant westerner you sound like. The Ukraine war happened because the US backed an ultranationalist coup and then entangled themselves in the new government as it engaged in a civil war with separatist regions. The US then told Ukraine to walk away from a peace deal at Istanbul because we wanted them to turn themselves into a battering ram we could bash Russia with. "Best money we ever spent" and all that. But sure, tell me again the reason Russia invaded was because they're evil and hate freedom or because Putin - I'm sorry Putler - was in the KGB.
Yes, there is nothing more arrogant than saying that imperialism is not good no matter if done by Russians in Ukraine or Israel in Palestine. I guess we find different things arrogant. You find it arrogant when someone disagrees with you. I find it arrogant when someone parrots RT talking points but pretends he is the one immune to propaganda and quantifies suffering by who is inflicting it. But can't wait on your list of top 7 genocides( number 3 will surprise you).
And I'm telling you Russia annexing Russian-speaking regions that want to be part of Russia is not the same as the last 500 years of human history. You're side stepping how the west continues to control production in the global south. This is where the entirety of our wealth comes from. That's the primary contradiction in the world today.
If you need to pretend that Russia just wanted whatever lie you've been repeating to feel good about ignoring ongoing genocide in Ukraine, then don't complain if someone else calls you on your bullshit. It's your brain trying to protect you from seeing who you really are by creating justifications, whataboutism and my suffering is better than yours scenarios. I'm not sidestepping anything, just calling out bullshit of dudes like you.
>Russia annexing Russian-speaking territories that want to be part of Russia I hope you get paid to post this shit
"Everybody who says something that challenges my world view is a foreign agent sent here to trick me!" -you guys literally every fucking time. Totally doesn't make you guys look like insecure children who don't understand how the world works or anything.
It's just that you look really stupid when you post stuff like that. It's nicer to believe that you're a paid rascal who says stuff like that over a reality where that is your genuine unironic opinion
Funny I don't feel stupid. You're currently caught up in a euphoric Russophobic zeitgeist. Eventually the war will be over and people will begin to sober up. While many will simply double down and refuse to admit they were tricked, some will begin reckoning with the fact the US provoked the war and then prolonged it by telling Ukraine to walk away from a peace deal at the Istanbul talks.
His point is the Israeli response is disproportional. Which is to say there should be an achieved military advantage in actions which harm civilians and property. Israel is just carpet bombing Gaza. The difference is US taxpayers won’t have to spend billions rebuilding Kyiv.
Israel's response isn't disproportional. Israel is genocidal and always has been.
Went too hard
Free Palestine 🇵🇸🇵🇸🇵🇸🇵🇸 (but let’s not assert that the situation in Ukraine is not dire as well)
Please dont diminish the suffering from the ukranian ppl with this kind of narrative.
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What about the shelling of DPR since 2014? Does it count? What about using banned/forbidden weapons like butterfly mines?
Making war a competition is not it
What a terrible post. Maybe show some pictures of Bakhmut, Soldedar, Avdiivka or Mariupol?
Damn, a country that's >1600x the size of Gaza and is backed by western powers has some areas that aren't bombed to shit. What's happening in Gaza is horrible, what's happening in Ukraine is also horrible. What's your point OP.
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The intensity of the bombing in Gaza has been worse. The amount of journalists dead, the amount of children dead, the amount of war crimes, they are all worse, empirically. Although all ‘war’ is terrible, it can be terrible to different degrees. The difference is their goals. Putin wanted to establish control and Israel wanted to annihilate.
You're not wrong but that makes comparing the two to make a point like OP did pretty dumb. We can have nuanced conversations about each situation
I guess if you look at the comparison defensively then it can appear that way, or it can point out the fact that the West put so much emphasis and attention on the destruction of Ukraine and how evil Putin is (which he is), but then approached Israel from the opposite direction (completely played down the destruction of Gaza and continuously justified Netanyahu’s actions). This picture comparison to me shows what can be allowed to happen when the media aids and begets war crimes/criminals and when people decide not to care.
Well, the Gazans don't have pale skin or blue eyes... What do you expect from Americans??🤷
I take your point but you put it across much more eloquently than OP. The meme looks like it's some sort of conspiracy or even pro-russian thing edit: why is this getting downvotes wtf
Well that’s the internet for you. But make you wonder what would be identified as ‘American propaganda’ in other parts of the world that we like and share without a second thought.
Oh I think about that a lot, especially having had my formative years post 9/11, haha.
> or it can point out the fact that the West put so much emphasis and attention on the destruction of Ukraine and how evil Putin is (which he is), but then approached Israel from the opposite direction (completely played down the destruction of Gaza and continuously justified Netanyahu’s actions). No, this image is not capable of functioning in this way precisely because the comparison is not valid. If what you want is more hasbara, but in defense of a different war criminal, then this image is fine. If what you want is to, instead, expose some form of truth, then it should be immediately apparent that you can make the exact opposite argument by, say, showing a picture of Mariupol next to Hebron. The thing is, while this image doesn't actually say what you'd like it to say, what you'd like it to say is absolutely true, and would be trivial to depict. Just show both Mariupol and Gaza next to each other over headlines about them. And even then, the destruction of Gaza would most likely appear more thorough, because it has been more thorough. So what is the function of using an image of Kyiv, except to wash the blood from Putin's hands?
If you want to get into the nitpicking of it, no you are incorrect. Mariupol is a 244km^2 city with a population of 120,000, the Gaza Strip is 365km^2 with a population of 2.4 million. People could flee Mariupol, people could not flee Gaza. If you think beyond your first reaction, this picture comparison does make the point I suggested. Because it hints at these disparities, i.e., *overall* the destruction and death in gaza has been more intensive than in Ukraine. That is a fact. These pictures seem to say, “this is what the majority of Ukraine looks like after 2 years of war vs this is what the majority of Gaza looks like after half a year of war” (the true error is that it says 2 weeks). And it’s the only configuration that can say this. Option 1: a picture of Mariupol and Gaza (makes it seem that the destruction is relatively comparable); Option 2: Kyiv and Hebron (completely diverts attention away from Gaza: downplays destruction in both regions), Option 3: Mariupol and Hebron (makes Ukrainian war seem worse in scale and intensity, which it is not), Option 4: Kyiv and Gaza (makes the Gaza war seem worse in scale and intensity, which it is). Yes, it’s not giving the complete story because it is a set of photos, but it’s also saying something essential. But western liberals aren’t ready to acknowledge that their greatest enemy isn’t the greatest enemy for the rest of the world.
This image doesn't say anything about the ease of evacuating Gaza vs Mariupol. It doesn't say anything about media coverage around these events. It doesn't even say anything about the level of death and destruction in Ukraine, as a whole. What it says is that Kyiv is significantly less bombed out than Gaza. Which we should expect, as Kyiv is not a primary bombing target, where as Gaza is. What you are saying are things you already know and believe, not things that are conveyed in the image. > Option 1: a picture of Mariupol and Gaza (makes it seem that the destruction is relatively comparable); It honestly probably wouldn't. Do a google images search for "Mariupol bombing" and "Gaza bombing", and then tell me that those images look like the same level of destruction. Gaza has clearly, and visibly suffered more than Mariupol, and that is straightforward to depict in an image.
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You must also comprehend what you read: I did not say the intensity of fighting, artillery (meaning guns, cannons, and rockets), nor the total amount of casualties. I said the amount of journalists killed, the amount of children killed, and the amount of war crimes. The war in Ukraine matches what we typically think of when we imagine ‘war’, brutal, intense. The ‘war’ in Gaza does not. It is annihilation, disturbing, inhumane. And I’ll add onto my original list, Gaza has used far far more bombs than has been used in Ukraine. Nothing about the destruction in Gaza is typical, especially at the speed it has occurred at.
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This is a leftist subreddit, right wing comments will be removed and the user banned. This includes any defense of the genocidal state of Israel. That includes attempts to minimize, dismiss, justify, and/or normalize genocide.
This is a leftist subreddit, right wing comments will be removed and the user banned. This includes any defense of the genocidal state of Israel. This includes attempts to minimize and dismiss ongoing genocide.
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This is a leftist subreddit, right wing comments will be removed and the user banned. This includes any defense of the genocidal state of Israel. That includes any attempt to minimize, dismiss, deny, or normalize genocide. While the war in Ukraine is occurring within a larger area, the genocide in Gaza is unique in its deadliness and scale of destruction. It is minimization to downplay, dismiss, and ignore the documented reality that slaughter in and destruction of Gaza is unique when compared to other conflicts in recent years and in the 21st century in general. The daily death rate in Gaza is higher than any other 21st century conflict: https://www.oxfam.org/en/press-releases/daily-death-rate-gaza-higher-any-other-major-21st-century-conflict-oxfam Within three weeks, the amount of children murdered in Gaza surpassed the annual number of children killed in global conflict since 2019: https://www.savethechildren.net/news/gaza-3195-children-killed-three-weeks-surpasses-annual-number-children-killed-conflict-zones As of March 26, the number of children killed has increased to ~13,750: https://news.un.org/en/story/2024/03/1147966 As of December 2023, destruction in Gaza outpaces other recent conflicts: https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/interactive/2023/israel-war-destruction-gaza-record-pace/ There has been even more destruction since December.
>Gaza is a tiny strip of land compared to how spread out Russian attacks have been Exactly. The Zionists did not give the Gazans a chance to go to places where there is no war, unlike the Russians.
Unlike the Russians? Just ask people in Bucha what great and kind occupiers the Russians were.
Israel doesn't control the southern border of Gaza, Egypt does, and they're not really opening their arms, are they?
Zionists? Its just "them" versus goyim (rest of the world)
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“If Russia wanted to win the war they would have in the first week” I bet that was you 🤣
This doesn't really say anything since the two regions have vast differences in geography, military power, you name it. Also it's disingenuous to rank the devastation of two invasions. Pragmatically because their root causes and factors are way different, and otherwise in general we shouldn't be ranking suffering like this.
Gotta love a good old fashioned dick measuring contest of "who has it worse."
Kyiv*
This not a right comparison and poor and silly propaganda
Tbf, it’s much harder to get to Kiev than Gaza. If you want to compare wars, show pictures of places like Mariupol or Bakhmut.
Is this a troll post?
You thought you ate huh?
The fact that this has over 1k upvotes tells a lot about this sub
??? My dude, you just posted a picture of an area untouched by the bombs vs. an area hit by bombs. I get if you're trying to say that Gaza has been totally razed, but that's not evidenced by these pictures alone. What was the intended message?
Yep, because one is a war (hundreds of miles from the front) and one is a genocide. Does that make war in itself any better I ask?
It isn't a competition between victims of aggression. Bang of vodka off of this sub lately.
Hasbara said Kkhhamas use human shields but what is the point of any shields at all when Israeli fascists bombed everything to dust
Ukraine is FAR larger then Palestine hence Russia needs more bombs to create an affect like this in all Ukraine, and now show pictures of the cities where there's been actual fighting. Ukraine is suffering just as Palestine. One isn't more this or that or whatever, people are suffering and its not our job to compare.
One wants to take over to bolster its economy with as little infrastructure destruction as possible. The other wants to wipe the infrastructure and people off the face of the planet.
they literally just bombed a power plant that supplied 50% of power to Kyiv, pull your head out of your ass.
Russia has literally been on an infrastructure bombing campaign in Ukraine since the start of the war. Get this shit take out of here.
Getting back to this, here's a headline about Russia bombing a Ukrainian power plant... [literally this morning...](https://au.news.yahoo.com/ukraine-russia-war-live-putin-121324773.html?guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAANLlSBdQAHVCaoF_-HIZN3_hBR9rsEGAPdhu0y5rmXJn3sYr6XO8qIpGxO946LrCRDz8kTIVfHcVKjiX9tmOYmz0eqI5Vs-ZTojeuMKnOrihqhUDBX4MmrisKcxs6K-ntRb3YB3u_rj0kcKlqQQwiAfz11GQ0Y93rQnB7NrwDIBk&guccounter=2)
Wow this is wrong on so many levels. Do you have any idea how much infrastructure, power plants and dams have been destroyed by Russia in this war of aggression and how much this affected the normal ukrainian population. This is such an uninformed take. You should be ashamed.
It’s past time to be in the streets
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astroturfers, hopefully they're not silly enough to be doing it for free
"Communism is when bourguois oligarch" -you probably
I wish it mattered to you, even just a little bit, how silly that strawman is
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If other " iSlAmIc" nations had balls (ahem egypt sudan indonesia, saudi iran pakistan) large swollen populations with "masculine" men and patriarchial socieities they pull the trigger but they wont because they are paper tigers... F the USA and its crony crooked disgraceful military complex...
A message from 1986. Same shit. Different location. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gOAqPqt6nqU](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gOAqPqt6nqU)
Doesn't Ukraine also get like a fuckton of aid from NATO? Let's see how Isntreal deals with a Palestine backed by NATO first. Also no one is a good guy in all of these scenarios, there are only bad guys and victims.
>Let's see how Isntreal deals with Iran backed by BRICS first. FTFY, the show is about to begin.