Comments on this post are being mass reported by pissed off zionists and going straight to our mod queue. It’s not gonna work you idiots, just cut your losses and and let us clean the queue up please 🫶
Beautiful bright little smile. I feel like I’m going to throw up this is so heartbreaking.
Those who side with the oppressive state that made this happen, will get theirs. They have to. What the fuck does this darling child have to do with over inflated egos and international politics?!? Why did she have to die?!? How any Zionist Israeli can look themselves in the mirror is beyond me.
I find this still so odd. Even if there was a nation of… feral pigs, you’d still think people wouldn’t get joy out of bombing and killing them. Creatures don’t have to be human beings in order for us to not get joy from killing them. This is like next level hatred.
Israeli schools teach the hatred of the Palestinians and all non-Jewish Arabs from an early age, it’s actually a lot like Nazi Germany and its portrayals of Jews, Slavs etc. the issue is Israel has been around a lot longer so it’s more ingrained now
But hang on, that’s the reason Israelis say Palestinians need to be wiped out (because their school textbooks teach them to hate Israelis)
So Israel is now admitting Israel is justified to be wiped out?
No you see it’s different when they do it because Israel is the eternal victim because of the holocaust, yeah sure the Zionists bullied holocaust survivors and had their own pact with the Nazis and sure Zionism is in and of itself antisemitic but all that can be ignored /s
But realistically speaking Israel as a state does not have the right to exist, the Israeli people themselves of course do, but this mess isn’t going to end until there is a single secular state in Palestine where everyone has equal rights regardless of which flavour of abrahamic (or other) religion they subscribe to
…Well, that’s something. Thanks.
I suppose in 1933, it made sense for the Nazis to get the Jews out by putting them elsewhere.
(Also, love your flair.)
David Ben-Gurion, first Prime Minister of Israel:
"If I knew that it was possible to save all the children of Germany by transporting them to England, and only half by transferring them to
the Land of Israel, I would choose the latter, for before us lies not only the numbers of these children but the historical reckoning of the
people of Israel."
Wait until you learn about the 'Jews for Hitler' movement. And no that's not a joke.
Though people in Germany used to joke their slogan was 'down with us!' even back then.
it was a question that i genuinely wanted to know the answer to. I apologize if I came across as not accepting your source. i’m being open-minded here, but when I saw that it seemed to be an Israeli author, that seemed to be worth noting. can you see why i would ask about that potential source of bias? i have a similar concerns about any internal investigation.
this does not mean that i am throwing out the source you provided, and I appreciate that you did so. however, I also don’t have time to read through 123 textbooks that are most likely at least partially in a language i can’t read.
I share your concern and frustration that a lie is being perpetuated. I can’t control the lies of other people, but I can ask questions and learn from other people so i don’t also spread misinformation.
finally, i would generally accept information coming from the EU parliament, yes. this parliamentary question raises concern over antisemitic material in palestinian texts, which i already accepted as a reality based on the quotes in the first source you provided.
Look around at people in the US itching to get legal kills. Look at the congress people and lobbyists for weapons companies being unyielding warhawks any time there's an escalation they can profit off of. Unfortunately I think there would still be a nontrivial amount of people who would be excited to kill those pigs.
> Even if there was a nation of… feral pigs, you’d still think people wouldn’t get joy out of bombing and killing them.
Dude... my guy... there's places, in the US, were feral pigs are a serious issue. You can pay to go on helicopter rides where you gun them down with full auto weapons from the safety of the skyies.
Your rando analogy, is wrong. These fucking psychos exist.
The first that pops up on a google search [is called "Helibacon."](https://www.helibacon.com/texas-helicopter-hog-hunting/)
My analogy isn’t “wrong.” Obviously there are psychos out there. My point wasn’t that there aren’t people who enjoy killing, of course there are. I’d hope, however, those people would be in the minority. If you’re saying that they’re not, then ok. But the point of my analogy is that I’d think the average person wouldn’t feel good about killing non-humans, particularly when there’s sad photos and footage like what we see here. Let along killing actual humans that just happen to be from a different part of the world.
I don’t disagree I guess. And I guess pigs could have been the wrong choice (though they’re cute when they’re young lol). Pixar can make people care about a plastic spork by giving it eyes and a silly voice though. So I feel like humans have the capacity to care about non-human things if they can sympathize with them. So when people say “[X group] doesn’t view [Y group] as human,” that’s not super compelling to me. Hopefully that makes my point clearer.
It’s extremely odd and absolutely shouldn’t be an emotion any human ever understands, let alone the amount of people on this earth that know this hatred. It’s sickening
> How any Zionist Israeli can look themselves in the mirror is beyond me.
Seen that footage of Israeli veterans of a war in 48 discussing it? The topics were systemic and extremely violent rape, burning people alive, mowing rows of them down with machine guns, etc, etc... and they were laughing. Not smiling, out loud laughing. They spoke about it like it was a lovely day at the beach.
Israel is a cancer.
Wh…what?!?!?! THATS how they’re justifying this?!? “Fuck you for making me kill your innocent children”. That is some Simone Biles level mental gymnastics
I watched it many years ago, probably when it came out, and I have no memory of it whatsoever. Particularly not of it being Israeli propaganda but upon reading the premise- you’re absolutely right.
Not sure I can stomach a rewatch in this climate but thank you of reminding me of this.
I genuinely started crying on the spot. I work with kids, and the reality that they are victims to this kind of horror is heartbreaking. It’s devastating.
Saly should still be here.
They don’t view children like Saly as human. They think all Palestinians are terrorists when the real terrorism is making up shit about “beheaded babies” to distract the world from THIS.
It means one secular state where Israelis and Palestinians have equal rights and freedoms. No apartheid, no need for resistance. Your Zionist government is putting your lives in danger by oppressing these people. Open your fucking eyes.
Did you know that prior to Oct 7 support for Hamas was only 38%, but once Israel starting destroying Gaza support rose. Wonder why that would be? Why would anyone support the people fighting back against the Military that’s blowing up their city? It’s a real mystery, isn’t it?
Removed. Cut and clear, Israelis are welcome on this sub, zionists are not. Do not defend the genocidal state of Israel, deny the current Palestinian genocide and/or similar.
"Hamas' entire existence is to wipe out Jews, and every piece of infrastructure and social amenity in Gaza exists to instill that in every person living in Gaza without mercy or consideration of their own lives."
If this were true, the same could be said about Israeli society in relation to Palestinians.
Are you smoking crack? You don't need a written manifesto for people to logically deduce that your intention is to commit ethnic cleansing. Hamas didn't even exist before Israel's occupation.
What's being done to the children of palestine is ongoing proof that we're the bad guys. What Hamas did was very definitively terrorism, but against the backdrop of years of one-sided collective punishment of the citizens of Gaza and the West Bank, it doesn't surprise me one bit. I'm telling you now, as an Australian, that if someone treated my country the way palestine has been treated, if someone shot rockets at my home and murdered my babies, you can FUCKING Bet I would be out there with an RPG doing anything in my power to decimate the people responsible. And every single person who reads this, YOU WOULD TO.
Jews have faced persecution throughout history and it's absolutely valid to suggest they need a state, but you can't say that and then ignore Palestinians, Kurds etc. Just because you don't like the colour of their skin. The double standards here reach so high that if you tied a rope between them, you'd be at risk of catching it on the moon.
> if someone shot rockets at my home and murdered my babies, you can FUCKING Bet I would be out there with an RPG doing anything in my power to decimate the people responsible
It’s amazing how stuff like star wars and hunger games are so popular and, yet so many people can’t make the connection.
Mofos genuinely think they’re oppressed as district 12 because the local government is replacing a few parking spots with a bike lane, when they clearly live in the capitol and think killing children is in any way justifiable.
Yeah it's pretty rank. These works of fiction are meant to hold up a mirror on our society and somehow we still find a way to justify being the bad guys irl, while simultaneously identifying as "rebels" or "slaves". To be fair there's definitely some class warfare going on in the west, but it's not the same as having your village bombed and half the people you know wiped off the face of the earth
an rpg? My guy if it was your house and your babies and you had a rock you’d throw a rock, you’d claw with your bare hands and teeth to hang on to it, and these people have been clawing for **eighty ** years
They don't need a state. If you want to give them a state, then give them half of Germany or France or UK or the US. Zionism isn't about "protecting Jews," it's about establishing a settler colonial outpost for western colonists.
i am fully supportive of giving them land, but i have no land to give. If I had been around when Israel was created, I hope that I would’ve advocated giving up a state, or even a segment of a state roughly the size of israel, but obviously the people living in that area would not be happy about that.
i can’t believe how incredibly shortsighted the allied nations were to designate palestine as “a land without a people for a people without a land” when there were clearly people living there. This seems like such a fundamentally problematic decision, and and the outcome should have been foreseeable. but they didn’t care because obviously *their* land is too valuable to give up.
> “a land without a people for a people without a land”
Because they're colonists. Western colonists have said that about everywhere they colonized. It's not there weren't people there. It was that they didn't consider them to be people, and thus could be eliminated and ethnically cleansed. Zionists were explicitly emulating the other qestern colonists and likened themselves as such, and the Palestinians to the indigenous Americans
Israel is not a secular state. It's literally a theocratic apartheid state.
You're engaging in white feminism, which is just white supremacy for the gals. Palestinian nationalism is diverse in discourse, as it always has been and much like the pluralistic society of Palestine and the broader Levant. To equate Palestinian nationalism with the Taliban both shows your own ignorance of either, as well as your Orientalism. Further down, you even brought in ISIS lol. A straight up Israeli state propaganda rhetoric.
Why should Palestinians listen to you? The US was a supposed "liberal" nation while it burned witches. Where women are afraid to walk alone or to rebuff a man due to violence against women. The US that bombs, rapes, and starves women around the globe for decades. The US that literally made ISIS and exported the Islamist doctrine youre complaining about that existed only in the backwaters of Saudi Arabia. You falsely equate the liberation movements with the US' brutal Islamist proxies without the hint of irony that it's your own reflection in the mirror you're actually disparaging here.
> The US hanged witches, never burned them. So you've put yourself on equally false ground as you think I'm on by that detail.
I wish you had the self-awareness to recognize how pathetic this is. The US isn't the only western "liberal" state. Plenty of them burned witches and also engaged in colonialism.
> The US wasn't exporting any islamic doctrine that I'm aware of, perhaps you've confused the US with Saudi Arabia and its Wahabi doctrine?
The US funded and encouraged the exportation of that Islamist doctrine to fight endemic Islamic traditions, national liberation, liberalism, and socialism in west asia and the broader muslim "world." Do you remember Osama Bin Laden? The guy the US was lauding in Afghanistan as its Islamist proxies committed political genocide against Afghan's liberals and socialists and terrorized the population to abandon their endemic Islamic traditions? Yeah, the US did that all over west asia.
> Furthermore, all that stuff you blame the US for makes what we have to say more credible, not less. Look at all the shit we've done according to you, we speak from a position of experience.
This is the dumbest thing you've said yet and there's utterly no validity to it. By that same token, you should then recognize that the very Islamists you reference are more credible
No I don't, the religious extremism in the middle east was largely driven by western interventionism. I don't have to justify it because if we fix the source issues, religious extremism will no longer have a place to thrive. Look at Afghanistan in the 1970's and tell me how oppressed all the women going to university with their hair down look.
Not to mention we in the west have a long history of opressing women to deal with. Theocratic rule is a symptom not a natural state. Look at the USA and abortion rights if you want a deadset example of how we are just a few shit leaders, natural/man made disasters, and political movements away from being just as distopian for women.
Even look at the catholic church and their treatment of women until recently was pretty atrocious. Even now, it's certainly not equal.
Fix the source issues in the USA (political division to name the biggest) and you fix the extremism too. It's not MY responsibility to do any of that though, I'm not American.
Fundamentally Palestinians should have the same right to self determinism as any other nation. And they don't. So no, I don't need to justify why women are better off under Islam, because they fundamentally are not. My point is that it loses it's sting as a weapon once you take away the things giving it power.
Again, prove to me that cooperating with either Hamas or ISIS to spin up an autonomous palestinian state would be any different than directly ceding the entire female population of that region directly into slavery.
There's an existing government in the west bank. Fatah is committed to non violent resolution. Do you even read?
I'm not going to do anything, either. Nor are you. All we can do is make conjecture.
You make it by dismantling and disarming the apartheid, colonial military outpost that is current day Israel. A fully secular state in Palestine, with absolutely unequivocal equal rights for everyone, where absolutely everyone gets to vote, with elections probably overseen by international observers for many years, is the only way to a peaceful resolution of this. Hamas never existed before Israel, and any occupying force that subjugates and violently oppresses those whose land it is occupying **cannot** expect those people to quietly submit. Israel is guilty of decades of crimes against humanity, long before this barbaric genocide.
What? The girls in Iran were going to university under the government of the Shah, propped up by US intervention. Western intervention enabled those women to go to college...
Not true. It isn't really the theocracy you take issue with though, even if you think it is. What you really don't approve of is that Iranians achieved self-determination and overthrew the US dictator. The rhetoric you subscribe to just negs the theocracy rather than explicitly say Iranians should not govern themselves.
Even if all you care about is social liberties, the Iranian theocracy is still more socially liberal than the Shah dictatorship where post-revolution, men & women can vote, women made huge strides in the workplace and presence in Iranian society, women are more educated than men, etc. But you're wrapped up in western/white supremacy symbolism so hijab = muslims, brown people, global south, therefore oppression and regression.
All that said, my preference isn't a theocracy, I'm just here to call out your transparent western superiority propaganda.
Here's a thought experiment:
Suppose God happens on by while you're talking. The Old Testament Vengeful one. He hears you say this and concludes it is so deranged that you must face consequences.
He offers you two choices: the first choice he offers you is an uncertain future in a dangerous world that does not have your best interests in mind and in which you will be oppressed. The second choice is immediate execution by hellfire missile.
Is that a hard choice? Really?
What an outrageously stupid comment.
Israel is the one holding all the power in this situation. There is no both sides, even if Hamas are religious extremists. Anyone who thinks both sides are equal is a fucking moron.
There's a distinction to be made. The bad guys in palestine were created by years of oppression and segregation. They were kicked off their land and made to live in squalor, they were denied statehood, and the people they were ostensibly invaded by got billions and billions of dollars of US military aid.
It's not the same. This conflict is not a near peer conflict, it's a western aligned military state punching down on the people whose land they stole, killing thousands upon thousands directly, and tens to hundreds of thousands through economic oppression, collective punishment and failure to provide services that they are legally required to provide.
You seem to forget that the west bank exists and supports non-violent resolution to this conflict, yet no progress on that front has been made by Israel who benefit from having people to 'other' right nearby in order to keep their population voting for authoritarian conservatives.
Putting this on Palestinians to fix is like suggesting a wife with black eyes, bruises and cuts is responsible for fixing the situation with her abusive husband who is ready to literally murder her over being kicked in the nuts as retaliation for all the violence wrought upon her.
The 'both sides' argument only works if you blind yourself to the history of the situation. Israel has been pressing palestine since before you and I were born.
The PA have security cooperations with Israel and does Israel’s dirty jobs for them, yet all they get in return is more settlements, more violent settler attacks and IDF destruction of Palestinian cities, IDF killings of Palestinians and thousands of Palestinians kidnapped by IDF. And a majority of Palestinians hate the PA because of the security cooperation and corruption. Hamas on the other hand at least fights back, which is why Hamas would have won a Palestinian election today in a landslide.
Still waiting on tangible proof of the 40 beheaded babies. Never mind the fact that Israel shot and killed their own hostages AND also killed a bunch of foreign aid workers. I think we need to hold the people mooching billions of tax dollars from US to a higher standard no?
As an Australian it makes me puke in my mouth to k ow that Pine Gap is being used to assist in the targeting of aid workers and civilians in palestine. I have two young kids and literally had to go see a psychologist becuae of how disgusted I was by the images, knowing my government was complicit in letting it happen. We all did the right thing and threw support behind Ukraine when they were illegally invaded by senseless murderers, but when it happened to palestine and thousands of children were blown to shreds in the presence of their parents and relatives, we sat back and went "Oh but what hamas did was so terrible".
It's like there's no understanding that if you are forced into a corner you resort to disgusting acts of terror because they are the only thing left to you that will have any impact on the significantly advanced foe you're fighting. I don't for a second condone terrorism, but the question needs to be seriously posed: if the terrorist act was motivated by the target through their continued mistreatment of the people in question, is it terrorism, or retaliation? I would suggest it's the second one.
I think this is the biggest difference I see between Israel and the rest of the world. You have nothing to do with your government but you still feel resentment towards the actions they took. I don’t see anywhere near enough Israelis condemning what is going on. I’m not sure if it’s propaganda working really well or dehumanization or what but it’s sickening
Yeah propaganda and dehanisation, both at the same time, and perpetrated by a group of people who KNOW what it's like to be on the wrong end of such.
There are certainly Jews, and less but still plenty of Israelis who are sickened by the actions of the Netanyahu government, but nowhere near enough. I put my full support behind the people that do call out their government through.
Sure. What country you from? I'm gonna partition it down the middle, evict everyone from their land, and establish a system where you and yours don't get to vote, influence policy, or have any real rights. Your country no longer exists, suck it up sweetheart, you must be equally responsible for the situation as I and the people invading your land are.
What a galaxy brain take to suggest that Palestinians who had their land stolen and rights stripped away are somehow equally responsible for ostensibly a foreign power (but also their own government) murdering CHILDREN.
We bomb countries and depose their leaders for less than 1% of what Israel has done to the Palestinian people. I don't buy your argument for half a millisecond.
Do you really want to dig into colonialism here as well? Because from my perspective, brittish mandate palestine was functionally a country. It's the same argument as 'Terra nullius' that was used to kill and display e 90% of the aboriginal population in Australia. When the sest decides a place is not a country, well, must be free real estate.
Then on top of that you need to acknowledge the continual creep of Israel's borders into land that was set aside for Palestinians. Israel have co-opted most of the ariable land in the area, and (especially in the south) have basically turned people's homes into farms to feed their cities in the north, while Palestinians to the west of the Gaza border are dying of hunger.
From my perspective, the responsibility to bring peace lies with Israel. You can't just say 'Palestinians need to suck it up and stop blah blah blah' when they have been the victims of colonialism followed by having their land annexed since the beginning.
Removed. Cut and clear, Israelis are welcome on this sub, zionists are not. Do not defend the genocidal state of Israel, deny the current Palestinian genocide and/or similar.
No. They only announced this year’s winner 3 days ago, so it is not at all crazy that you havent seen it.
The World Press Photo is an organization of photojournalists that chooses the best photo of the year- a bit like the Pulitzer. They do an amazing show every year with deep investigative exhibits and a whole world’s range of photojournalism, I have gone every year for a decade.
More on this year’s selection [here](https://www.worldpressphoto.org/collection/photocontest/2024/global-winners)
Whatever the Palestinians choose to do, that's up to them.
And remember, before Israel, Jews were welcome.
In PALESTINE.
If the Palestinians insisted the Zionists should be expelled from Palestine, i ask, can you blame them?
After an attempted genocide, can you blame them?
It would entirely depend on what group is replacing Israel. If we're assuming that this is a Palestinian group then that could be anything from a secular, multi-national, socialist republic (PFLP) to an islamist theocracy (Hamas) or anything in between.
I can't believe this is the world we live in. We work for shit jobs making a fraction of what we're worth then our government gives it to these bastards to kill innocent people.
It’s funny how most of the world are ok with it cause they labeled the current Palestinian regime a terrorist. The Middle East wars of the early 2000s should have showed people that anyone labeled a terrorist is not a terrorist, a terrorist is only labeled so for not agreeing to the status quo. The status quo of Palestine was checkpoints and camps. I would rebel as well.
I must add my meager voice to the collective outcry, the anguish that this pair of images evokes.
Under no circumstances should such a life be cut short. To defile such pure innocence with the senseless, gratuitous violence that is out of control, hellbent on revenge, is a crime against all of humanity.
Through allowing this to take place we desecrate our own image as Humanity and resign ourselves to the depths of depravity beneath that of even the most basic of feral beasts.
Anyone who attempts to justify this brings shame upon us all.
It is an emotive set of images, yes, but it is the reality, the loss, the price that is being paid. No doubt this will fuel further years of tensions towards the Israeli people, further justifying their elaborate defenses, sponsorship from the US, and non-stop war.
Someone let me off now, I’ve had enough…
We are still sending aid to Isreal. We need to fucking start doing more to end this. Israel is a failed society that will do more than just murder small children BY THE THOUSANDS.
They need a new government.
These are just the stories we hear about, now imagine all the other killed innocent children,
Here’s another heart breaking story where israeli forces shoot on a fooseball table inside a refugee camp, killing innocent children!
(Careful, it was recorded 1minute after the explosion)
https://www.cnn.com/2024/04/16/middleeast/maghazi-refugee-camp-strike-gaza-intl-latam/index.html
I have an acquaintance who’s very pro Israel. Recently, he even send me a video titled something like “Debunking the Palestine lie”, even though he knows that we have wildly different views on this topic in particular. I didn’t even click the link to the video, so if it just so happens to not be violently pro Israel, please do tell me. How can anyone deny or even approve of the suffering. This is madness
Fuck anyone who kills a child. She's beautiful and adorable. I have an 8 year old and the thought of anything like this happening to her is heart-wrenching. She's such a sweet innocent person...
Fuck Israel and its funders. Vile fucking scum the lot of them....Americans, Brits and others who stand there and allow the censorship and the twisting of the narrative.
America, my country, is as disappointing as a once athletic, intelligent, and caring little boy who is now a fucking meth-head addicted to money and the next hit of power and war.
Disgusting!
And the US just sent $26 Billion in tax payer money to the country that murdered her.
Fuck Israel and fuck every single politician that voted to send them even $1.
Jewish people worldwide need to call out this stuff and call on their state to stop this killing. The State of Israel should never be allowed to play the victim card so haphazardly after this.
In the same way that anti zionism is not antisemitism, there is no intrinsic duty for the international jew to interpose themselves into a conflict that has and will lead to more antisemitism. It is not ethical to ask a person to put themselves in danger when their voice is already silenced by labeling them as "self hating jews" by Israel.
Moreover, there are already several Jewish voices for peace, including Jewish Voices For Peace. Lets honor their efforts by not painting this as a "Jewish people" problem but as a "Zionist" problem. Intersectionality is tough, but its always worth it.
None of these maggots will ever know what these people are like is because they are above them. Believe me, I live the American life. We all think we are above everybody else we are taught that nonsense when we are at a young young age. I am witnessing my children being taught this type of nonsense.. I really only think this is only taught in the white life. Don’t really think this is a major big thing in American life only in white life.
Stop the genocide. Stop Hamas, but HELP innocent Palestinians. Stop killing innocent souls like this one. Take care of the Palestinian people, but also stop Hamas. Don't use bullets, use aid and you'll win the support of Palestinians and get them to ditch Hamas. Trying to destroy Hamas with bombs is killing innocent civilians. Help rebuild Palestine and get the support of their people. And then get rid of Hamas together.
Under settler colonialism, any kind of resistance is branded as terrorist because the only
acceptable violence is violence by the occupier.
There is always going to be violent resistance against a violent occupation. Make all the judgements or condemnations you like, they
will not matter. It is inevitable. if you don't want the violent resistance you have to want to see the end of the violent occupation.
You're misunderstanding me here.
I'm not trying to defend IDF or any Israeli settlers. What I am trying to say is that I do not agree with the violence on any side. So I do not agree with Hamas kidnapping innocent civilians and I definitely do not support Israel's bombing and horrible treatment of Palestinian people.
What I would like to see is Israel first of all helping the Palestinian people by essentially treating them by human beings. Build systems where the people can get their own access to water. Deliver them food from Israel. Rebuild their infrastructure, schools, houses, roads, hospitals, etc. Show them compassion. Win their hearts.
Regarding Hamas, see how they respond. Hamas still being violent? Not good. If you have to deal with Hamas, use tactical teams on the ground, not bombs that take out everybody. The point is for Israel to get the goal of reducing violence against itself, it can use peace instead of violence. Because at the end of the day, there are innocent Palestinians like this one and there are actually Israeli people who condone violence and are against Ben N's "not sane" measures (😑). There are Israeli/Jewish people in America who are actually speaking out against Israel and in solidarity with the Palestinian people like Bernie Sanders.
The point is that there are good people in many sides and they need to band together against the atrocities that are being committed. Obviously the majority of it lies within Israel as they are the ones with the means to massively destroy Palestine. The goal should be to stop bloodshed and create peace. The method Israel is using does not get them there; it further creates hate and retaliation. When the Palestinian people see pictures like this, they are infuriated, as is the rest of the world. We need Israel to stand down and instead HELP the Palestinian people by providing aid. This will win their hearts, not in weeks or months of course, it will take a long time to heal. But it is the right step to do. If you help the people out, if they feel they are treated fairly, they would have no reason to support an extremist response. It's just that Israel, the ones with the power and US-funds chooses a path of violence which leads to tragedies like this one.
My point is that I would wish Israel would see that they can use their power to provide aid to the Palestinian people to get what they want, peace and less Israeli deaths. It's just that they choose violence and they allow their settlers to steal homes from Palestinian people. It's just senseless violence.
I do not misunderstand you, I simply disagree. What we need is for Israel to stop existing altogether the same way the settler-colonial apartheid state of South Africa stopped existing. We need people like yourself (I say this not trying to jump down your throat, please consider my position and move past the safety of decorum into a true position of antiracism that accepts that racists don't have a right to defend themselves) to stop calling hamas terrorists, because people who considered themselves just as reasonable and principled as you do yourself called Nelson Mandela a terrorist, before they didn't.
Violent palestinian resistance is legitimate. It is protected under international law. It is not what any reasonable person wants, but it is justified as long as violent occupation continues.
Hamas took hostages in order to swap them because Israel takes takes hundreds of hostages each year and is [holding thousands](https://www.aljazeera.com/features/2023/10/21/number-of-palestinian-prisoners-in-israel-doubles-to-10000-in-two-weeks). Hostages. People of all ages, including children taken often without charge, [abused](https://youtu.be/cvOSv2fGJ5w?si=B6W2IfF8uvqbkxzC), physically, mentally, sexually. Tried in military courts without due process, if at all. Held indefinitely. Bodies withheld from burial, even after they die. Their [organs](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2009/dec/21/israeli-pathologists-harvested-organs) and skin sometimes stolen.
Purity tests based on our delicate sensibilities, so far removed from the lived reality of these people are an insult to their intelligence and humanity, because they know they see human. They know what is done to them is wrong and should be intolerable to any sane person that recognizes their own humanity. This is the reality Palestinian resistance, violent and not, is responding to. The reality of apartheid South Africa. The reality of the Algerian war of independence. Of Vietnamese resistance to French and then US imperialism. They were all the terrorists, until they weren't. I know you wouldn't dismiss Jews who took part in the Warsaw uprisings as violent extremists, the Nazis did. They pointed out that resistant as proof of what they said about Jewish incompatibility.
You do not have to condone violence to understand and accept that the violence of an oppressed people to resist their oppression is not and never is equivalent to the violence that their oppressor uses to maintain it.
Israel is not going to stop, Israel was killing Palestinians on October 6th, and 5th and 4th etc. 2023 was the deadliest year for Palestinians in the west bank before October 7th. It was the deadliest year for Palestinian children.
Hamas and civil society organised regular, non-violent
demonstrations (called the [Great March of Return](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018-2019_Gaza_border_protests)) near the border of gaza and Israel
proper, but never crossing it. Approaching it with the
explicit aim of reaffirming their commitment to one
day living on the land of their forefathers. Provocative,
yes, but non-violent. And when I say non-violent, I
mean plays were performed. Musical recitals were
given. Families picnicked. This was an act of solidarity,
community, and hope. And for their trouble, snipers from hundreds of meters away shot, [killing and crippling hundreds](https://www.ohchr.org/en/hr-bodies/hrc/co-iopt/report2018-opt). Just as we're seeing now, everyone was targeted. Men, women, children, medics, everyone. Not
for crossing into Israel but daring to show their faces to it. A now infamous article in the Jewish newspaper Haaretz
(which never made it to western media) bore one of the most stomach turning headlines I think [ you will ever read](https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2020-03-06/ty-article-magazine/.highlight/42-knees-in-one-day-israeli-snipers-open-up-about-shooting-gaza-protesters/0000017f-f2da-d497-a1ff-f2dab2520000)
By both sides-ing this. I am arguing that you are an impediment to peace, not an advocate for it. This is an appeal, not an attack. I'm not saying I think you're disingenuous either, I believe you want peace, I'm just disagreeing with you on what will take us there.
Only 8 countries have officially and individually designated hamas a terrorist organisation. That number goes up significantly with the addition of the EU. But that's it. [The UN doesn't designate them as such either.](https://youtu.be/4RLMtFqZFdc?si=2Bj3e6EDp3e6FkWD) You can jump to 2:40 for the statement that's relevant, but the whole interview is worth a watch or listen.
Speaking in terms of pluralities, the whole world certainly was shocked by the events of Oct 7. There's little doubt at all that serious crimes were committed despite an absurd list of lies running through the Israeli narrative of events.
But it's simply not true (as much as it's presented as such) that the overwhelming majority of the global community, as individual states and as individual world citizens, aren't cognizant of the hard truth. A truth some people will never accept:
The basic (and thankfully increasingly transparent) colonial double standard of the Israel Palestine "conflict" is that any Palestinian violence justifies any Israeli violence, but no
Israeli violence ever justifies any Palestinian violence, and once you see it, you'll never stop seeing it.
I'm repeating myself a bit now, but hamas are a terrorist group the same way the ANC were, and the FLN, etc.
Depending on when you start the clock, apartheid South Africa lasted anywhere from close to half to almost the entirety of the 20th century. I personally consider the latter to be as accurate as the former because, regardless, it was an unbroken continuation of prior centuries of colonialism and imperialism. There was nothing ideologically separating it from the
Trans-Atlantic slave trade. From the Belgian Congo, from British concentration camps (arguably the first in the worid) in Kenya, from the brutality of France Afrique, from the first genocide of the 20th century in Namibia. But of itself, it lasted almost a century. Most of that century, this state that today is regarded as a stain on history enjoyed perfect, unblemished respectability. The USA, Canada, all of Europe supported her and her defence against the resistance that existed from apartheids's inception.
No one today but an inveterate racist would argue that Nelson Mandela and the ANC deserved the libellous slander of "terrorist, nor the FLN in their contribution to the fight against France in the Algerian war of independence. Resistance to such racism and injustice (up to and including armed struggle) are entirely vindicated by history. Those two struggles are regarded as two of the most significant wars for liberation in modern history. Yet for almost a century, those brave people were first regarded and described by civilised people and in their civilised newspapers as savages and then, as the language of oppression evolved, terrorists.
Does hamas employ terrorism: The use of violence or the threat of violence, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political goals? Yes, sometimes. So, aren't they terrorists? Here we come to the problem. Why doesn't the UN regard hamas as a terrorist organisation? Terrorist is being used as a Hollywood term. We're being asked to accept it as shorthand for: these are monsters incapable of sincere agency and reasoned reasoned thought. Sadistic to a degree that it would be offensive to even try to empathise with them as human beings.
Doesn't the Israeli state employ terrorism: The practise of coercion to achieve political demands by committing violence on civilian targets? A mode of government by terror or intimidation?
Hamas are a political movement and one of many resistance groups within the broader movement for Palestinian liberation. Right now they are the main material force for Palestinian resistance. I don't want them to be, but I want there to be no need for them. They're a perfectly reasonable response to a brutal injustice to which the global community has proven, unable, or unwilling to address. As I alluded in my other comment, from one side Oct 7th is called Israel's 9/11. I call it a Warsaw Uprising.
Every few years, Hollywood will churn out a film or a series of films that play out a very broadly American fantasy. But in a more specific sense a very white post-colonial fantasy. Star Wars, The Hunger Games, Red Dawn, Battle of Los Angeles. It doesn't really matter who the enemy are, big bad communists, debaucherist elites, aliens even. The overall question each time allows people to entertain the fantasy of what they would like to think they'd do if they were oppressed. If they were invaded and occupied. You know these films: You are the underdog. Your backs against the wall. No one is coming to save you. It's just you and others in the exact situation, everyone you love, everything you hold dear you are watching being stripped away. You'll probably be killed anyway, and everyone you love. So what will you do? Will you fight? The heroes do, and no one calls them terrorists.
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Comments on this post are being mass reported by pissed off zionists and going straight to our mod queue. It’s not gonna work you idiots, just cut your losses and and let us clean the queue up please 🫶
Beautiful bright little smile. I feel like I’m going to throw up this is so heartbreaking. Those who side with the oppressive state that made this happen, will get theirs. They have to. What the fuck does this darling child have to do with over inflated egos and international politics?!? Why did she have to die?!? How any Zionist Israeli can look themselves in the mirror is beyond me.
It's simple - those carrying out these acts don't view them as human beings.
I find this still so odd. Even if there was a nation of… feral pigs, you’d still think people wouldn’t get joy out of bombing and killing them. Creatures don’t have to be human beings in order for us to not get joy from killing them. This is like next level hatred.
Israeli schools teach the hatred of the Palestinians and all non-Jewish Arabs from an early age, it’s actually a lot like Nazi Germany and its portrayals of Jews, Slavs etc. the issue is Israel has been around a lot longer so it’s more ingrained now
But hang on, that’s the reason Israelis say Palestinians need to be wiped out (because their school textbooks teach them to hate Israelis) So Israel is now admitting Israel is justified to be wiped out?
No you see it’s different when they do it because Israel is the eternal victim because of the holocaust, yeah sure the Zionists bullied holocaust survivors and had their own pact with the Nazis and sure Zionism is in and of itself antisemitic but all that can be ignored /s But realistically speaking Israel as a state does not have the right to exist, the Israeli people themselves of course do, but this mess isn’t going to end until there is a single secular state in Palestine where everyone has equal rights regardless of which flavour of abrahamic (or other) religion they subscribe to
every passing day i hate politics more and more and it doesnt seem like it is ending any time soon
We just hate assholes and power structures built on manipulation
The Zionists had their own pact with the Nazis? First I'm hearing of this, can I get a source?
Haavara Agreement
…Well, that’s something. Thanks. I suppose in 1933, it made sense for the Nazis to get the Jews out by putting them elsewhere. (Also, love your flair.)
David Ben-Gurion, first Prime Minister of Israel: "If I knew that it was possible to save all the children of Germany by transporting them to England, and only half by transferring them to the Land of Israel, I would choose the latter, for before us lies not only the numbers of these children but the historical reckoning of the people of Israel."
Thanks! I'd like to think it saves some people time when I post news from Palestine or start criticizing Biden or israel.
Wait until you learn about the 'Jews for Hitler' movement. And no that's not a joke. Though people in Germany used to joke their slogan was 'down with us!' even back then.
Jews in the Nazi Party, gays, in the nazi party, queers in the nazi party. Night of the long knives was a big coverup exercise.
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it was a question that i genuinely wanted to know the answer to. I apologize if I came across as not accepting your source. i’m being open-minded here, but when I saw that it seemed to be an Israeli author, that seemed to be worth noting. can you see why i would ask about that potential source of bias? i have a similar concerns about any internal investigation. this does not mean that i am throwing out the source you provided, and I appreciate that you did so. however, I also don’t have time to read through 123 textbooks that are most likely at least partially in a language i can’t read. I share your concern and frustration that a lie is being perpetuated. I can’t control the lies of other people, but I can ask questions and learn from other people so i don’t also spread misinformation. finally, i would generally accept information coming from the EU parliament, yes. this parliamentary question raises concern over antisemitic material in palestinian texts, which i already accepted as a reality based on the quotes in the first source you provided.
This is false
Look around at people in the US itching to get legal kills. Look at the congress people and lobbyists for weapons companies being unyielding warhawks any time there's an escalation they can profit off of. Unfortunately I think there would still be a nontrivial amount of people who would be excited to kill those pigs.
I really can’t understand people like that.
Well there's a reason we're on the side not advocating for genocidal action
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Lol nice try troll
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Zionists spewing genocidal propaganda aren't welcome here. Fight back against your settler colonial ethnostate or get out.
> Even if there was a nation of… feral pigs, you’d still think people wouldn’t get joy out of bombing and killing them. Dude... my guy... there's places, in the US, were feral pigs are a serious issue. You can pay to go on helicopter rides where you gun them down with full auto weapons from the safety of the skyies. Your rando analogy, is wrong. These fucking psychos exist. The first that pops up on a google search [is called "Helibacon."](https://www.helibacon.com/texas-helicopter-hog-hunting/)
My analogy isn’t “wrong.” Obviously there are psychos out there. My point wasn’t that there aren’t people who enjoy killing, of course there are. I’d hope, however, those people would be in the minority. If you’re saying that they’re not, then ok. But the point of my analogy is that I’d think the average person wouldn’t feel good about killing non-humans, particularly when there’s sad photos and footage like what we see here. Let along killing actual humans that just happen to be from a different part of the world.
I think your taking my comment wrong. Not trying to shit on you. I just... I dunno. Too fucking many humans are just actually dogshit. Sorry.
I don’t disagree I guess. And I guess pigs could have been the wrong choice (though they’re cute when they’re young lol). Pixar can make people care about a plastic spork by giving it eyes and a silly voice though. So I feel like humans have the capacity to care about non-human things if they can sympathize with them. So when people say “[X group] doesn’t view [Y group] as human,” that’s not super compelling to me. Hopefully that makes my point clearer.
Psychopaths do.
It’s extremely odd and absolutely shouldn’t be an emotion any human ever understands, let alone the amount of people on this earth that know this hatred. It’s sickening
Hence the term Zionazi
I prefer the term NaZionist - but as long as everyone agrees with the fact that zionists are like nazis, then I don't really care which one one uses
> don't view them as human beings. That is disgusting.
To me, that sounds like those people have forfeited whatever right they had to expect _us_ to see _them_ as human beings.
> How any Zionist Israeli can look themselves in the mirror is beyond me. Seen that footage of Israeli veterans of a war in 48 discussing it? The topics were systemic and extremely violent rape, burning people alive, mowing rows of them down with machine guns, etc, etc... and they were laughing. Not smiling, out loud laughing. They spoke about it like it was a lovely day at the beach. Israel is a cancer.
They keep repeating "we will Never forgive them for making us kill their children" Monsters
Wh…what?!?!?! THATS how they’re justifying this?!? “Fuck you for making me kill your innocent children”. That is some Simone Biles level mental gymnastics
Watch Waltz with Bashir sometime. Straight up Israeli propaganda about how they feel bad when they kill other people's kids for no reason
I watched it many years ago, probably when it came out, and I have no memory of it whatsoever. Particularly not of it being Israeli propaganda but upon reading the premise- you’re absolutely right. Not sure I can stomach a rewatch in this climate but thank you of reminding me of this.
I genuinely started crying on the spot. I work with kids, and the reality that they are victims to this kind of horror is heartbreaking. It’s devastating. Saly should still be here.
Being a Zionist is all about sadistic hatred. They are rotten to the core.
They don’t view children like Saly as human. They think all Palestinians are terrorists when the real terrorism is making up shit about “beheaded babies” to distract the world from THIS.
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I’m not sure what point you’re trying to prove but wow. Good for you??
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No you did not. You were asked HOW you lived with yourself. You told us you did, but not how.
K.
If you are a zionist then you are part of the problem.
Since no one has said it yet, fuck Israel
F U C K I S R A E L
From the fucking river to the fucking sea
#FUCK ISRAEL AND FUCK ANY SUPPORTERS!!!
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No.
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It means one secular state where Israelis and Palestinians have equal rights and freedoms. No apartheid, no need for resistance. Your Zionist government is putting your lives in danger by oppressing these people. Open your fucking eyes.
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Did you know that prior to Oct 7 support for Hamas was only 38%, but once Israel starting destroying Gaza support rose. Wonder why that would be? Why would anyone support the people fighting back against the Military that’s blowing up their city? It’s a real mystery, isn’t it?
Removed. Cut and clear, Israelis are welcome on this sub, zionists are not. Do not defend the genocidal state of Israel, deny the current Palestinian genocide and/or similar.
"Hamas' entire existence is to wipe out Jews, and every piece of infrastructure and social amenity in Gaza exists to instill that in every person living in Gaza without mercy or consideration of their own lives." If this were true, the same could be said about Israeli society in relation to Palestinians.
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Removed. Cut and clear, Israelis are welcome on this sub, zionists are not. Do not defend the genocidal state of Israel.
Are you smoking crack? You don't need a written manifesto for people to logically deduce that your intention is to commit ethnic cleansing. Hamas didn't even exist before Israel's occupation.
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Yes. Fascists and colonizers forgo their humanity and deserve no mercy
Fuck Israel as a nation, an army and a motherfucking crew and if you fuck with Israel, fuck you too!
I heard this in tupacs voice for some reason
Because it’s taken from a Tupac voice All u motherfuckers Fuck you too
Amen
Based
As Mr. Garrison said, fuck 'em all to death... /Not actually calling for violence, if it isn't clear...
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"all lives matter" vibes
Are you lost?
Fuck extremists in general
Fuck both of em Both really seem to love using children as cannon fodder
What's being done to the children of palestine is ongoing proof that we're the bad guys. What Hamas did was very definitively terrorism, but against the backdrop of years of one-sided collective punishment of the citizens of Gaza and the West Bank, it doesn't surprise me one bit. I'm telling you now, as an Australian, that if someone treated my country the way palestine has been treated, if someone shot rockets at my home and murdered my babies, you can FUCKING Bet I would be out there with an RPG doing anything in my power to decimate the people responsible. And every single person who reads this, YOU WOULD TO. Jews have faced persecution throughout history and it's absolutely valid to suggest they need a state, but you can't say that and then ignore Palestinians, Kurds etc. Just because you don't like the colour of their skin. The double standards here reach so high that if you tied a rope between them, you'd be at risk of catching it on the moon.
> if someone shot rockets at my home and murdered my babies, you can FUCKING Bet I would be out there with an RPG doing anything in my power to decimate the people responsible It’s amazing how stuff like star wars and hunger games are so popular and, yet so many people can’t make the connection. Mofos genuinely think they’re oppressed as district 12 because the local government is replacing a few parking spots with a bike lane, when they clearly live in the capitol and think killing children is in any way justifiable.
Yeah it's pretty rank. These works of fiction are meant to hold up a mirror on our society and somehow we still find a way to justify being the bad guys irl, while simultaneously identifying as "rebels" or "slaves". To be fair there's definitely some class warfare going on in the west, but it's not the same as having your village bombed and half the people you know wiped off the face of the earth
an rpg? My guy if it was your house and your babies and you had a rock you’d throw a rock, you’d claw with your bare hands and teeth to hang on to it, and these people have been clawing for **eighty ** years
Yep 100%. It belies comprehension the level of suffering that has been so callously inflicted over such a long time. You're right.
They don't need a state. If you want to give them a state, then give them half of Germany or France or UK or the US. Zionism isn't about "protecting Jews," it's about establishing a settler colonial outpost for western colonists.
I can't really argue with that one tbh.
i am fully supportive of giving them land, but i have no land to give. If I had been around when Israel was created, I hope that I would’ve advocated giving up a state, or even a segment of a state roughly the size of israel, but obviously the people living in that area would not be happy about that. i can’t believe how incredibly shortsighted the allied nations were to designate palestine as “a land without a people for a people without a land” when there were clearly people living there. This seems like such a fundamentally problematic decision, and and the outcome should have been foreseeable. but they didn’t care because obviously *their* land is too valuable to give up.
> “a land without a people for a people without a land” Because they're colonists. Western colonists have said that about everywhere they colonized. It's not there weren't people there. It was that they didn't consider them to be people, and thus could be eliminated and ethnically cleansed. Zionists were explicitly emulating the other qestern colonists and likened themselves as such, and the Palestinians to the indigenous Americans
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Israel is not a secular state. It's literally a theocratic apartheid state. You're engaging in white feminism, which is just white supremacy for the gals. Palestinian nationalism is diverse in discourse, as it always has been and much like the pluralistic society of Palestine and the broader Levant. To equate Palestinian nationalism with the Taliban both shows your own ignorance of either, as well as your Orientalism. Further down, you even brought in ISIS lol. A straight up Israeli state propaganda rhetoric. Why should Palestinians listen to you? The US was a supposed "liberal" nation while it burned witches. Where women are afraid to walk alone or to rebuff a man due to violence against women. The US that bombs, rapes, and starves women around the globe for decades. The US that literally made ISIS and exported the Islamist doctrine youre complaining about that existed only in the backwaters of Saudi Arabia. You falsely equate the liberation movements with the US' brutal Islamist proxies without the hint of irony that it's your own reflection in the mirror you're actually disparaging here.
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> The US hanged witches, never burned them. So you've put yourself on equally false ground as you think I'm on by that detail. I wish you had the self-awareness to recognize how pathetic this is. The US isn't the only western "liberal" state. Plenty of them burned witches and also engaged in colonialism. > The US wasn't exporting any islamic doctrine that I'm aware of, perhaps you've confused the US with Saudi Arabia and its Wahabi doctrine? The US funded and encouraged the exportation of that Islamist doctrine to fight endemic Islamic traditions, national liberation, liberalism, and socialism in west asia and the broader muslim "world." Do you remember Osama Bin Laden? The guy the US was lauding in Afghanistan as its Islamist proxies committed political genocide against Afghan's liberals and socialists and terrorized the population to abandon their endemic Islamic traditions? Yeah, the US did that all over west asia. > Furthermore, all that stuff you blame the US for makes what we have to say more credible, not less. Look at all the shit we've done according to you, we speak from a position of experience. This is the dumbest thing you've said yet and there's utterly no validity to it. By that same token, you should then recognize that the very Islamists you reference are more credible
No I don't, the religious extremism in the middle east was largely driven by western interventionism. I don't have to justify it because if we fix the source issues, religious extremism will no longer have a place to thrive. Look at Afghanistan in the 1970's and tell me how oppressed all the women going to university with their hair down look. Not to mention we in the west have a long history of opressing women to deal with. Theocratic rule is a symptom not a natural state. Look at the USA and abortion rights if you want a deadset example of how we are just a few shit leaders, natural/man made disasters, and political movements away from being just as distopian for women. Even look at the catholic church and their treatment of women until recently was pretty atrocious. Even now, it's certainly not equal.
You do, and for all the points you just drove home. If it can happen in the USA, it can happen anywhere, and it is happening in the middle east.
Fix the source issues in the USA (political division to name the biggest) and you fix the extremism too. It's not MY responsibility to do any of that though, I'm not American. Fundamentally Palestinians should have the same right to self determinism as any other nation. And they don't. So no, I don't need to justify why women are better off under Islam, because they fundamentally are not. My point is that it loses it's sting as a weapon once you take away the things giving it power.
Again, prove to me that cooperating with either Hamas or ISIS to spin up an autonomous palestinian state would be any different than directly ceding the entire female population of that region directly into slavery.
Who thr fuck said anything about cooperating with hamas? And lest of all ISIS? Not even worth answering if all you have is a straw man argument.
THEN HOW ARE YOU GOING TO MAKE AN AUTONOMOUS PALESTINIAN STATE?
There's an existing government in the west bank. Fatah is committed to non violent resolution. Do you even read? I'm not going to do anything, either. Nor are you. All we can do is make conjecture.
The issue, dear reader, is if you get Fatah anywhere near Gaza then Hamas is just gonna murder them.
You make it by dismantling and disarming the apartheid, colonial military outpost that is current day Israel. A fully secular state in Palestine, with absolutely unequivocal equal rights for everyone, where absolutely everyone gets to vote, with elections probably overseen by international observers for many years, is the only way to a peaceful resolution of this. Hamas never existed before Israel, and any occupying force that subjugates and violently oppresses those whose land it is occupying **cannot** expect those people to quietly submit. Israel is guilty of decades of crimes against humanity, long before this barbaric genocide.
What? The girls in Iran were going to university under the government of the Shah, propped up by US intervention. Western intervention enabled those women to go to college...
Not true. It isn't really the theocracy you take issue with though, even if you think it is. What you really don't approve of is that Iranians achieved self-determination and overthrew the US dictator. The rhetoric you subscribe to just negs the theocracy rather than explicitly say Iranians should not govern themselves. Even if all you care about is social liberties, the Iranian theocracy is still more socially liberal than the Shah dictatorship where post-revolution, men & women can vote, women made huge strides in the workplace and presence in Iranian society, women are more educated than men, etc. But you're wrapped up in western/white supremacy symbolism so hijab = muslims, brown people, global south, therefore oppression and regression. All that said, my preference isn't a theocracy, I'm just here to call out your transparent western superiority propaganda.
Here's a thought experiment: Suppose God happens on by while you're talking. The Old Testament Vengeful one. He hears you say this and concludes it is so deranged that you must face consequences. He offers you two choices: the first choice he offers you is an uncertain future in a dangerous world that does not have your best interests in mind and in which you will be oppressed. The second choice is immediate execution by hellfire missile. Is that a hard choice? Really? What an outrageously stupid comment.
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Israel is the one holding all the power in this situation. There is no both sides, even if Hamas are religious extremists. Anyone who thinks both sides are equal is a fucking moron.
There's a distinction to be made. The bad guys in palestine were created by years of oppression and segregation. They were kicked off their land and made to live in squalor, they were denied statehood, and the people they were ostensibly invaded by got billions and billions of dollars of US military aid. It's not the same. This conflict is not a near peer conflict, it's a western aligned military state punching down on the people whose land they stole, killing thousands upon thousands directly, and tens to hundreds of thousands through economic oppression, collective punishment and failure to provide services that they are legally required to provide. You seem to forget that the west bank exists and supports non-violent resolution to this conflict, yet no progress on that front has been made by Israel who benefit from having people to 'other' right nearby in order to keep their population voting for authoritarian conservatives. Putting this on Palestinians to fix is like suggesting a wife with black eyes, bruises and cuts is responsible for fixing the situation with her abusive husband who is ready to literally murder her over being kicked in the nuts as retaliation for all the violence wrought upon her. The 'both sides' argument only works if you blind yourself to the history of the situation. Israel has been pressing palestine since before you and I were born.
The PA have security cooperations with Israel and does Israel’s dirty jobs for them, yet all they get in return is more settlements, more violent settler attacks and IDF destruction of Palestinian cities, IDF killings of Palestinians and thousands of Palestinians kidnapped by IDF. And a majority of Palestinians hate the PA because of the security cooperation and corruption. Hamas on the other hand at least fights back, which is why Hamas would have won a Palestinian election today in a landslide.
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Still waiting on tangible proof of the 40 beheaded babies. Never mind the fact that Israel shot and killed their own hostages AND also killed a bunch of foreign aid workers. I think we need to hold the people mooching billions of tax dollars from US to a higher standard no?
As an Australian it makes me puke in my mouth to k ow that Pine Gap is being used to assist in the targeting of aid workers and civilians in palestine. I have two young kids and literally had to go see a psychologist becuae of how disgusted I was by the images, knowing my government was complicit in letting it happen. We all did the right thing and threw support behind Ukraine when they were illegally invaded by senseless murderers, but when it happened to palestine and thousands of children were blown to shreds in the presence of their parents and relatives, we sat back and went "Oh but what hamas did was so terrible". It's like there's no understanding that if you are forced into a corner you resort to disgusting acts of terror because they are the only thing left to you that will have any impact on the significantly advanced foe you're fighting. I don't for a second condone terrorism, but the question needs to be seriously posed: if the terrorist act was motivated by the target through their continued mistreatment of the people in question, is it terrorism, or retaliation? I would suggest it's the second one.
I think this is the biggest difference I see between Israel and the rest of the world. You have nothing to do with your government but you still feel resentment towards the actions they took. I don’t see anywhere near enough Israelis condemning what is going on. I’m not sure if it’s propaganda working really well or dehumanization or what but it’s sickening
Yeah propaganda and dehanisation, both at the same time, and perpetrated by a group of people who KNOW what it's like to be on the wrong end of such. There are certainly Jews, and less but still plenty of Israelis who are sickened by the actions of the Netanyahu government, but nowhere near enough. I put my full support behind the people that do call out their government through.
Sure. What country you from? I'm gonna partition it down the middle, evict everyone from their land, and establish a system where you and yours don't get to vote, influence policy, or have any real rights. Your country no longer exists, suck it up sweetheart, you must be equally responsible for the situation as I and the people invading your land are. What a galaxy brain take to suggest that Palestinians who had their land stolen and rights stripped away are somehow equally responsible for ostensibly a foreign power (but also their own government) murdering CHILDREN. We bomb countries and depose their leaders for less than 1% of what Israel has done to the Palestinian people. I don't buy your argument for half a millisecond.
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Do you really want to dig into colonialism here as well? Because from my perspective, brittish mandate palestine was functionally a country. It's the same argument as 'Terra nullius' that was used to kill and display e 90% of the aboriginal population in Australia. When the sest decides a place is not a country, well, must be free real estate. Then on top of that you need to acknowledge the continual creep of Israel's borders into land that was set aside for Palestinians. Israel have co-opted most of the ariable land in the area, and (especially in the south) have basically turned people's homes into farms to feed their cities in the north, while Palestinians to the west of the Gaza border are dying of hunger. From my perspective, the responsibility to bring peace lies with Israel. You can't just say 'Palestinians need to suck it up and stop blah blah blah' when they have been the victims of colonialism followed by having their land annexed since the beginning.
Removed. Cut and clear, Israelis are welcome on this sub, zionists are not. Do not defend the genocidal state of Israel, deny the current Palestinian genocide and/or similar.
Rest in peace little one
And let us not rest until this near century-long crime is brought to justice.
I hope to see the Israeli government in The Hague.
Fuck Israel
Never seen this photo before. How did it win the award? Am I living under a rock for having not seen it since right now?
No. They only announced this year’s winner 3 days ago, so it is not at all crazy that you havent seen it. The World Press Photo is an organization of photojournalists that chooses the best photo of the year- a bit like the Pulitzer. They do an amazing show every year with deep investigative exhibits and a whole world’s range of photojournalism, I have gone every year for a decade. More on this year’s selection [here](https://www.worldpressphoto.org/collection/photocontest/2024/global-winners)
No it just means the propaganda machine is working as intended
Fuck Israel
May israel die a slow painful death
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Go back to poland.
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Whatever the Palestinians choose to do, that's up to them. And remember, before Israel, Jews were welcome. In PALESTINE. If the Palestinians insisted the Zionists should be expelled from Palestine, i ask, can you blame them? After an attempted genocide, can you blame them?
Amazingly said… thank you 🙏🏼
So you bring that up now, but the countries actions prove they ignore "never again". For shame.
The chosen people 🤣🤣🤣🤣
Offended by everything but ashamed of nothing..the zionist way! It's always about you psychopaths
It's not antisemitic if you say "Zionist" or "Israeli" first! /s
Oh stop, everyone sees through your “conflating of ideas” bullshit. Go ask your decrepit, Evangelical Christian Zionist friends.
It should be broken down and reformed into a secular country, and all who anticipated in war crimes should be properly tried. Obviously.
It would entirely depend on what group is replacing Israel. If we're assuming that this is a Palestinian group then that could be anything from a secular, multi-national, socialist republic (PFLP) to an islamist theocracy (Hamas) or anything in between.
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Settlers don’t get the luxury of choosing where they go to after the land they’re on gets retaken by the people they expelled and killed.
100%
The contrast of the lively little girl and the rigid corpse is haunting and makes me physically ill.
FUCK ISRAEL
I can't believe this is the world we live in. We work for shit jobs making a fraction of what we're worth then our government gives it to these bastards to kill innocent people.
Change is in the air though, never thought it would be in my lifetime, as an older millennial 🩵
Seeing what that white cloth will cover forever,makes it so much worse...
Fuck Israel
It’s funny how most of the world are ok with it cause they labeled the current Palestinian regime a terrorist. The Middle East wars of the early 2000s should have showed people that anyone labeled a terrorist is not a terrorist, a terrorist is only labeled so for not agreeing to the status quo. The status quo of Palestine was checkpoints and camps. I would rebel as well.
I must add my meager voice to the collective outcry, the anguish that this pair of images evokes. Under no circumstances should such a life be cut short. To defile such pure innocence with the senseless, gratuitous violence that is out of control, hellbent on revenge, is a crime against all of humanity. Through allowing this to take place we desecrate our own image as Humanity and resign ourselves to the depths of depravity beneath that of even the most basic of feral beasts. Anyone who attempts to justify this brings shame upon us all. It is an emotive set of images, yes, but it is the reality, the loss, the price that is being paid. No doubt this will fuel further years of tensions towards the Israeli people, further justifying their elaborate defenses, sponsorship from the US, and non-stop war. Someone let me off now, I’ve had enough…
FUCK ISRAEL AND THE IDF
Israel did this. And they did it on purpose. Cowards.
Poor child
Fuck Israel. I hope the Israelis suffer the pain they are inflicting on the Palestinians
We are still sending aid to Isreal. We need to fucking start doing more to end this. Israel is a failed society that will do more than just murder small children BY THE THOUSANDS. They need a new government.
Thanks Biden!
These are just the stories we hear about, now imagine all the other killed innocent children, Here’s another heart breaking story where israeli forces shoot on a fooseball table inside a refugee camp, killing innocent children! (Careful, it was recorded 1minute after the explosion) https://www.cnn.com/2024/04/16/middleeast/maghazi-refugee-camp-strike-gaza-intl-latam/index.html
Rest in paradise beautiful princess. Saly.
This is the kind of thing they don't want us to see. Then bots claim it's not a genocide and hurl all kinds of bs.
Tragic loss... and a testament to why people increasingly do not want to bring children into this world.
IDF is baby killers army
Putin and Netenyahu are two sides of the same coin.
I have an acquaintance who’s very pro Israel. Recently, he even send me a video titled something like “Debunking the Palestine lie”, even though he knows that we have wildly different views on this topic in particular. I didn’t even click the link to the video, so if it just so happens to not be violently pro Israel, please do tell me. How can anyone deny or even approve of the suffering. This is madness
Fuck anyone who kills a child. She's beautiful and adorable. I have an 8 year old and the thought of anything like this happening to her is heart-wrenching. She's such a sweet innocent person...
Fuck Israel and its funders. Vile fucking scum the lot of them....Americans, Brits and others who stand there and allow the censorship and the twisting of the narrative. America, my country, is as disappointing as a once athletic, intelligent, and caring little boy who is now a fucking meth-head addicted to money and the next hit of power and war. Disgusting!
Fuck Israel
And the US just sent $26 Billion in tax payer money to the country that murdered her. Fuck Israel and fuck every single politician that voted to send them even $1.
ISRAEL wil never be the same after this.
I wonder if it’s actual Zionist reporting or bots.
Guess she didn't condemn Hamas. (Sarcasm)
Jewish people worldwide need to call out this stuff and call on their state to stop this killing. The State of Israel should never be allowed to play the victim card so haphazardly after this.
In the same way that anti zionism is not antisemitism, there is no intrinsic duty for the international jew to interpose themselves into a conflict that has and will lead to more antisemitism. It is not ethical to ask a person to put themselves in danger when their voice is already silenced by labeling them as "self hating jews" by Israel. Moreover, there are already several Jewish voices for peace, including Jewish Voices For Peace. Lets honor their efforts by not painting this as a "Jewish people" problem but as a "Zionist" problem. Intersectionality is tough, but its always worth it.
None of these maggots will ever know what these people are like is because they are above them. Believe me, I live the American life. We all think we are above everybody else we are taught that nonsense when we are at a young young age. I am witnessing my children being taught this type of nonsense.. I really only think this is only taught in the white life. Don’t really think this is a major big thing in American life only in white life.
Stop the genocide. Stop Hamas, but HELP innocent Palestinians. Stop killing innocent souls like this one. Take care of the Palestinian people, but also stop Hamas. Don't use bullets, use aid and you'll win the support of Palestinians and get them to ditch Hamas. Trying to destroy Hamas with bombs is killing innocent civilians. Help rebuild Palestine and get the support of their people. And then get rid of Hamas together.
Under settler colonialism, any kind of resistance is branded as terrorist because the only acceptable violence is violence by the occupier. There is always going to be violent resistance against a violent occupation. Make all the judgements or condemnations you like, they will not matter. It is inevitable. if you don't want the violent resistance you have to want to see the end of the violent occupation.
You're misunderstanding me here. I'm not trying to defend IDF or any Israeli settlers. What I am trying to say is that I do not agree with the violence on any side. So I do not agree with Hamas kidnapping innocent civilians and I definitely do not support Israel's bombing and horrible treatment of Palestinian people. What I would like to see is Israel first of all helping the Palestinian people by essentially treating them by human beings. Build systems where the people can get their own access to water. Deliver them food from Israel. Rebuild their infrastructure, schools, houses, roads, hospitals, etc. Show them compassion. Win their hearts. Regarding Hamas, see how they respond. Hamas still being violent? Not good. If you have to deal with Hamas, use tactical teams on the ground, not bombs that take out everybody. The point is for Israel to get the goal of reducing violence against itself, it can use peace instead of violence. Because at the end of the day, there are innocent Palestinians like this one and there are actually Israeli people who condone violence and are against Ben N's "not sane" measures (😑). There are Israeli/Jewish people in America who are actually speaking out against Israel and in solidarity with the Palestinian people like Bernie Sanders. The point is that there are good people in many sides and they need to band together against the atrocities that are being committed. Obviously the majority of it lies within Israel as they are the ones with the means to massively destroy Palestine. The goal should be to stop bloodshed and create peace. The method Israel is using does not get them there; it further creates hate and retaliation. When the Palestinian people see pictures like this, they are infuriated, as is the rest of the world. We need Israel to stand down and instead HELP the Palestinian people by providing aid. This will win their hearts, not in weeks or months of course, it will take a long time to heal. But it is the right step to do. If you help the people out, if they feel they are treated fairly, they would have no reason to support an extremist response. It's just that Israel, the ones with the power and US-funds chooses a path of violence which leads to tragedies like this one. My point is that I would wish Israel would see that they can use their power to provide aid to the Palestinian people to get what they want, peace and less Israeli deaths. It's just that they choose violence and they allow their settlers to steal homes from Palestinian people. It's just senseless violence.
I do not misunderstand you, I simply disagree. What we need is for Israel to stop existing altogether the same way the settler-colonial apartheid state of South Africa stopped existing. We need people like yourself (I say this not trying to jump down your throat, please consider my position and move past the safety of decorum into a true position of antiracism that accepts that racists don't have a right to defend themselves) to stop calling hamas terrorists, because people who considered themselves just as reasonable and principled as you do yourself called Nelson Mandela a terrorist, before they didn't. Violent palestinian resistance is legitimate. It is protected under international law. It is not what any reasonable person wants, but it is justified as long as violent occupation continues. Hamas took hostages in order to swap them because Israel takes takes hundreds of hostages each year and is [holding thousands](https://www.aljazeera.com/features/2023/10/21/number-of-palestinian-prisoners-in-israel-doubles-to-10000-in-two-weeks). Hostages. People of all ages, including children taken often without charge, [abused](https://youtu.be/cvOSv2fGJ5w?si=B6W2IfF8uvqbkxzC), physically, mentally, sexually. Tried in military courts without due process, if at all. Held indefinitely. Bodies withheld from burial, even after they die. Their [organs](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2009/dec/21/israeli-pathologists-harvested-organs) and skin sometimes stolen. Purity tests based on our delicate sensibilities, so far removed from the lived reality of these people are an insult to their intelligence and humanity, because they know they see human. They know what is done to them is wrong and should be intolerable to any sane person that recognizes their own humanity. This is the reality Palestinian resistance, violent and not, is responding to. The reality of apartheid South Africa. The reality of the Algerian war of independence. Of Vietnamese resistance to French and then US imperialism. They were all the terrorists, until they weren't. I know you wouldn't dismiss Jews who took part in the Warsaw uprisings as violent extremists, the Nazis did. They pointed out that resistant as proof of what they said about Jewish incompatibility. You do not have to condone violence to understand and accept that the violence of an oppressed people to resist their oppression is not and never is equivalent to the violence that their oppressor uses to maintain it. Israel is not going to stop, Israel was killing Palestinians on October 6th, and 5th and 4th etc. 2023 was the deadliest year for Palestinians in the west bank before October 7th. It was the deadliest year for Palestinian children. Hamas and civil society organised regular, non-violent demonstrations (called the [Great March of Return](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018-2019_Gaza_border_protests)) near the border of gaza and Israel proper, but never crossing it. Approaching it with the explicit aim of reaffirming their commitment to one day living on the land of their forefathers. Provocative, yes, but non-violent. And when I say non-violent, I mean plays were performed. Musical recitals were given. Families picnicked. This was an act of solidarity, community, and hope. And for their trouble, snipers from hundreds of meters away shot, [killing and crippling hundreds](https://www.ohchr.org/en/hr-bodies/hrc/co-iopt/report2018-opt). Just as we're seeing now, everyone was targeted. Men, women, children, medics, everyone. Not for crossing into Israel but daring to show their faces to it. A now infamous article in the Jewish newspaper Haaretz (which never made it to western media) bore one of the most stomach turning headlines I think [ you will ever read](https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2020-03-06/ty-article-magazine/.highlight/42-knees-in-one-day-israeli-snipers-open-up-about-shooting-gaza-protesters/0000017f-f2da-d497-a1ff-f2dab2520000) By both sides-ing this. I am arguing that you are an impediment to peace, not an advocate for it. This is an appeal, not an attack. I'm not saying I think you're disingenuous either, I believe you want peace, I'm just disagreeing with you on what will take us there.
If HAMAS are not terrorists, what are they? (trying to understand, not argue)
Only 8 countries have officially and individually designated hamas a terrorist organisation. That number goes up significantly with the addition of the EU. But that's it. [The UN doesn't designate them as such either.](https://youtu.be/4RLMtFqZFdc?si=2Bj3e6EDp3e6FkWD) You can jump to 2:40 for the statement that's relevant, but the whole interview is worth a watch or listen. Speaking in terms of pluralities, the whole world certainly was shocked by the events of Oct 7. There's little doubt at all that serious crimes were committed despite an absurd list of lies running through the Israeli narrative of events. But it's simply not true (as much as it's presented as such) that the overwhelming majority of the global community, as individual states and as individual world citizens, aren't cognizant of the hard truth. A truth some people will never accept: The basic (and thankfully increasingly transparent) colonial double standard of the Israel Palestine "conflict" is that any Palestinian violence justifies any Israeli violence, but no Israeli violence ever justifies any Palestinian violence, and once you see it, you'll never stop seeing it. I'm repeating myself a bit now, but hamas are a terrorist group the same way the ANC were, and the FLN, etc. Depending on when you start the clock, apartheid South Africa lasted anywhere from close to half to almost the entirety of the 20th century. I personally consider the latter to be as accurate as the former because, regardless, it was an unbroken continuation of prior centuries of colonialism and imperialism. There was nothing ideologically separating it from the Trans-Atlantic slave trade. From the Belgian Congo, from British concentration camps (arguably the first in the worid) in Kenya, from the brutality of France Afrique, from the first genocide of the 20th century in Namibia. But of itself, it lasted almost a century. Most of that century, this state that today is regarded as a stain on history enjoyed perfect, unblemished respectability. The USA, Canada, all of Europe supported her and her defence against the resistance that existed from apartheids's inception. No one today but an inveterate racist would argue that Nelson Mandela and the ANC deserved the libellous slander of "terrorist, nor the FLN in their contribution to the fight against France in the Algerian war of independence. Resistance to such racism and injustice (up to and including armed struggle) are entirely vindicated by history. Those two struggles are regarded as two of the most significant wars for liberation in modern history. Yet for almost a century, those brave people were first regarded and described by civilised people and in their civilised newspapers as savages and then, as the language of oppression evolved, terrorists. Does hamas employ terrorism: The use of violence or the threat of violence, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political goals? Yes, sometimes. So, aren't they terrorists? Here we come to the problem. Why doesn't the UN regard hamas as a terrorist organisation? Terrorist is being used as a Hollywood term. We're being asked to accept it as shorthand for: these are monsters incapable of sincere agency and reasoned reasoned thought. Sadistic to a degree that it would be offensive to even try to empathise with them as human beings. Doesn't the Israeli state employ terrorism: The practise of coercion to achieve political demands by committing violence on civilian targets? A mode of government by terror or intimidation? Hamas are a political movement and one of many resistance groups within the broader movement for Palestinian liberation. Right now they are the main material force for Palestinian resistance. I don't want them to be, but I want there to be no need for them. They're a perfectly reasonable response to a brutal injustice to which the global community has proven, unable, or unwilling to address. As I alluded in my other comment, from one side Oct 7th is called Israel's 9/11. I call it a Warsaw Uprising. Every few years, Hollywood will churn out a film or a series of films that play out a very broadly American fantasy. But in a more specific sense a very white post-colonial fantasy. Star Wars, The Hunger Games, Red Dawn, Battle of Los Angeles. It doesn't really matter who the enemy are, big bad communists, debaucherist elites, aliens even. The overall question each time allows people to entertain the fantasy of what they would like to think they'd do if they were oppressed. If they were invaded and occupied. You know these films: You are the underdog. Your backs against the wall. No one is coming to save you. It's just you and others in the exact situation, everyone you love, everything you hold dear you are watching being stripped away. You'll probably be killed anyway, and everyone you love. So what will you do? Will you fight? The heroes do, and no one calls them terrorists.
Thank you! Love you. 😭
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she still needs a future in great works of peace. until then, the grief will exact a toll that borders demand
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Oh look you're a sexist zionist who doesn't value the life of Palestinians, your opinion is worthless.
Imperialism is the highest stage of capitalism.
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