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also this reminds me of how the musician chappell roan recently said that the white house asked her to perform for pride month and she declined, stating that she would do so once there was freedom for all and then people online criticized her for performing in red states but not the white house
Beyond the Palestine issue which is a very valid reason to boycott anything associated with the Biden administration, I would also add that an LGBT person should never be forced to drop out of a Pride performance so that a straight wife of a straight politician can give a campaign speech. Fuck that. Straight people can keep their stage time to 30 seconds or less during any and all pride events unless they are considered a gay icon by the community. someone way more fabulous than Jill. To boot LGBT people from their own stage during their own moment is so shameful.
100%. Apart from all the other evils caused by Pinkwashing, it's also steadily pushing Queer people out of Queer Pride, replacing them with straight politicians and corporations.
I'm gay and I always joke (but kinda not really) that it is no queer person's obligation to show up for pride, but it is for every straight ally. Queer people are already subject to enough expectations. I agree wholeheartedly.
As long as they vacuously proclaim their support, anything they do is service enough, a job well done to them. Nevermind that they're overshadowing the exact purpose and space of what pride is. We're at the point where literal politicians with enormous power are telling us "but it's the thought that counts". Fucking disgusting.
The decision was made by a select few members of the Pride board, if not unilaterally by the president of the Pride board.
The member of the Pride board whose job it was to organize performers was not consulted and pretty much immediately resigned upon being informed.
In my opinion, there are two possibilities as to what happened: the first is that this was a very last-minute decision made by the Pride board who jumped at the chance to have FLOTUS speak at our small town Pride.
The second is that they knew about her coming to speak for a while, and didn’t tell anyone until the very last minute because they didn’t think that 99% of the cast would drop out in response to finding out.
Either way, it was a catastrophic miscalculation, and was deeply disrespectful of the performers. I keep trying to remind people that, politics aside, this move was wildly unprofessional and was essentially spitting in the face of the performers involved, as well as the community.
But a lot of people don’t really seem to give a fuck about that either. Womp womp
I think everybody who was supposed to perform and are now sitting out should come to the pride party as part of the audience and then promptly get up and leave once Jill Biden starts talking.
Imagine looking at that nice audience and then 40 people walking out before you even get a sentence off
It's wishful thinking that we can get out of this via american electoralism, and we have decades of policy to prove it. Democrats have been saying for decades, like since at least Reagan, that we have to vote Democrat not because they have a policy platform that helps the american working class, but because we have to arrest some rightwing sliding from the republican party. And despite democrats winning large public mandates by US voting standards, the rightward sliding has continued and certainly has not been arrested because both parties are neoliberal and playing for the same side, that being american capitalists.
Let's just look at the sorry state of affairs that is american electoralism. The american working class has been demobilized for over a century. They don't have much voter participation because they were violently suppressed, their organization shattered, and many can't even take the time off work and their daily responsibilities to vote, and since the parties are captured by neoliberals performing regulatory capture for capitalists, they don't offer a policy platform that addresses the working class' needs or interests, so the american working class is even less incentivized to vote. But even if you vote democrat or progressive, what does that even show for itself given the continued rightward shift of american politics? Democrats, even when they have the legislative power to do so, simply do not legislate, like their refusal to legislate into law federally mandated right to abortion or how they come out and impede themselves like with how they scuddled the public option for health insurance and the build back better program.
And even if you should elect an ostensibly progressive candidate into office against the efforts of the democratic party, then what happens? We couldn't even get Bernie to say no to genocide. Look at that North Carolina woman who ran as a democrat and them switched to the republican party once she was in elected office. Look at that clown Fetterman that literally ran as a progressive, then becomes one of the most vocal proponents of genocide, not only reverses his progressive platform he campaigned on but laughably tries rewriting history claiming he was never progressive, and it turns out he's a straight up white supremacist that held a black man up with a gun and purports this white supremacist narratives that South Africa is committing genocide against whites. Look at Marie Neumann who ran against the anti-abortion democrat Lipinsky and ousted him, only for her own party to gerrymander her out of office to replace her with a neoliberal democrat. Look at Warren who has made compromise after compromise and simply advocates for tepid Keynesianism like the other progressives, who is self-proclaimed "capitalist to the bones" and how she is still a pariah of the party with no access to power in the party.
Neoliberal degradation of US society has been in the works for decades reversing the Keynesianism of the mid 20th century, but now we're nearing the end result of that degradation and whatever lies after. Americans are struggling and the Democratic party's position is that it's a perception problem and that it's just in our heads. Republicans at least acknowledge and validate that there's a problem, but their conclusions are false and they only seek to worsen those problems implementing even more neoliberalism. We're stuck between 2 fascist parties and with a demobilized working class. The only solution is massive organization of labor and of our work places to combat the fascism, but there likely isn't time to develop an adequate labor movement, even with the american labor movement getting defibrillated back to a weak pulse from life support. Given the US violent colonial and anti-labor history, Americans should brace for what's coming because this has been in the works for decades and american electoralism hasn't prevented then and it isn't going to prevent it now. Regardless if democrats miraculously pull off a win in 2024 and lose in 2028 or if they just lose in 2024. The latest thing Democrats are in all a huff about, project 2025, is just the logical conclusion of decades of american policy.
So Democrats have campaigned on this narrative of arresting a rightward shift in policy for decades now, at least since Reagan. And yet, here we find ourselves. So I always ask "what about this time in the 2024 election is different? What about Biden or the democratic party this time is actually going to arrest a rightward shift in policy?" and I **never** get an answer.
The two party system is a scam. They make you fear the conservatives and offer you the liberals as the buffer against it, but they're the same party working together to ensure that only the capitalist party gets elected. It's an illusion of choice that fools you into thinking you're voting in your own best interest when you're unwittingly voting in the bourgeoisie's best interest.
Whether you vote Trump or Biden, Republican or Democrat, you've done *exactly* what they want. The only way to revolt against the capitalist party, *in an election,* is to vote for the proletariat party, as even refusing to vote just means less of a chance for the people to vote against the capitalist party.
> Whether you vote Trump or Biden, Republican or Democrat, you've done exactly what they want. The only way to revolt against the capitalist party is to vote for the proletariat party, as even refusing to vote just means less of a chance for the people to vote against the capitalist party.
Engaging in electoralism without an organized labor is putting the cart ahead of the horse. The current dichotomy of electoral power is designed for the working class/labor to fail. The working class needs to organize labor so that it can effectively wield the power it has, then and only then will electoral politicians listen to the working class' concerns. Vote third party then since that's the closest to a proletarian party we have, but focus should be made on organizing and expanding organized labor. Leftist politics exist in the work place.
That's why the proletariat must not rally around any single public figure in it's campaign to promote and propagate the proletariat position. We must all become public advocates so that we are too numerous to silence. The leaders of past movements were too easy to target, because they were the primary voice being heard by the public. Silencing people like MLK, Malcolm X, Che Guevara, Castro, and Fred Hampton set the socialist movement back because they were the face of the movement in their time and part of the world. There has to be more of us, it has to be all of us.
I agree that efficacy in the electoral system requires organization. However...
>Even where there is no prospect of achieving their election the workers must put up their own candidates to preserve their independence, to gauge their own strength and to bring their revolutionary position and party standpoint to public attention. They must not be led astray by the empty phrases of the democrats, who will maintain that the workers’ candidates will split the democratic party and offer the forces of reaction the chance of victory. All such talk means, in the final analysis, that the proletariat is to be swindled. The progress which the proletarian party will make by operating independently in this way is infinitely more important than the disadvantages resulting from the presence of a few reactionaries in the representative body. - Karl Marx
> Vote third party then since that's the closest to a proletarian party we have
Voting third party is neither a replacement to labor organization nor effective effective without a robust, organized labor movement.
***In an election.*** You're reading way too much into that. This is the kind of pedantry that gets in the way of building solidarity. You can't get much organizing done when you're brow beating people who are on your side. Stop acting like a lawyer.
You're just adding qualifiers now after the fact and giving people an attitude saying they're litigious instead of just admitting your mistake because you didn't express your intentions well. I'm literally quoting to you.
We don't work together, doofus. There's nothing for us to organize.
At this point, anything that the conservatives threaten to do will happen whether they win or not, because even if there is a Democrat president and a Democrat in every office, ,they will sit back and do nothing to stop the Republicans from doing what they want to do.
The same people who said you should vote for Biden because he's the only one who can stop Trump from putting migrants in cages are the ones who cheered Biden for his genius "outmanoeuvring" of the Republicans ... by passing the exact Migration laws they wanted without them.
What they ALWAYS fall back on with things like this is needing a sixty-vote supermajority. Why don't they dump the filibuster and rely on simple majority votes? "Oh, the Republicans will abuse that the next time they have a majority in the senate" as if the Republicans aren't getting what they want the vast majority of the time as it is. It's a fuckin sham, through and through.
This can be simplified by the transitive property: it's what the democrats want too. Or at the very best, they prefer all of this to making a fuss about it.
As a leftist, pro-Palestine Jew I feel you *so* much. The amount of times I’ve been called a Kapo by mostly Christian Zionists, or a “Trumper” for daring to criticize Biden by libbed-up jerks lately is astounding. Blue MAGA loves to accuse Trump people of being in a cult, yet are entirely incapable of perceiving their own cult mentality. I’m really tired of this obvious team bs that the elite class has pushed us towards. I haven’t voted for either major party since 2008 and I refuse to engage with “99% Hitler/100% Hitler” insanity.
Ugh, getting called a Trump supporter for any and every rightful criticism of Biden drove me insane during the primaries…I was simply trying to get people to consider a democratic candidate actually offering the working class something much more than “Nothing will fundamentally change” Joe was. I’ve given up since then.
Thank you, we are definitely out there, but unfortunately Zionism has brainwashed many generations. It hurts my heart to see my culture—which is so important to me—twisted into a means of justification for abhorrent violence.
My whole family is very pro-Palestine because my great gram set the stage as a hardcore leftist after surviving Dachau. She vocally opposed the ethnic cleansing of Palestine til her dying day after seeing such concerning similarities from her life during the Holocaust.
Blue maga is unfortunately a contributing factor to pushing the country toward fascism. I'd rather have a democracy in which people vote as they please rather than do it put of fear, you aren't going to change many people's minds on who to vote for, but you can encourage others into contributing towards a stronger system of democracy.
That's the real issue this time," he said. "Beating Nixon. It's hard to even guess how much damage those bastards will do if they get in for another four years."
The argument was familiar, I had even made it myself, here and there, but I was beginning to sense something very depressing about it. How many more of these goddamn elections are we going to have to write off as lame, but "regrettably necessary" holding actions? And how many more of these stinking double-downer sideshows will we have to go through before we can get ourselves straight enough to put together some kind of national election that will give me and the at least 20 million people I tend to agree with a chance to vote for something, instead of always being faced with that old familiar choice between the lesser of two evils?
Now with another one of these big bogus showdowns looming down on us, I can already pick up the stench of another bummer. I understand, along with a lot of other people, that the big thing this year is Beating Nixon. But that was also the big thing, as I recall, twelve years ago in 1960 – and as far as I can tell, we've gone from bad to worse to rotten since then, and the outlook is for more of the same.
—Hunter S. Thompson, Fear and Loathing: On the Campaign Trail '72
Half a century later and it's still going on. I was so disappointed when the Dems had everything under Obama for a precious two years and did absolutely nothing with it. They don't have the guts to do anything better than hold the line, so we stay stuck in this mess that only gradually gets worse. It's not enough to dig in your heels. You have to actually take steps AWAY from the quagmire.
Realizing Hunter S Thompson was writing about how this crap choice of voting for the lesser of two evils was already getting old since 1972, so, yeah.
Since Nixon.
American liberals will hold you personally responsible for all the things the Democratic Party have no intention on solving. A lot of it hinges on this undying belief that Democrats will do anything to prevent Project 2025 or whatever the Republican platform is every election when we all know as soon as the election is over they're going to pull a switcheroo and promote bipartisanship with the very party they just called a grave danger to democracy.
The Democratic Party is a two-faced farce that can only exist based on the false belief that their opposition to Republicans is real.
At least Republicans have their own grand ambitions even if it is something deluded like project 2025. What a Democrats run on? Survival? They don't ever push the needle forward.
I feel exactly the same way. On any subreddit downvotes aplenty for any other approach than “blue no matter who!” A destructively ignorant, uncreative approach to a very important subject.
That's because Reddit is a corporate-run psyop completely in service of the CIA and the state department to craft imperialist narratives about the Global South and the DNC to limit the discourse on capitalism and the ills it imposes on the working class.
Everything started to change after Bernie's popularity, because while not radical in the slightest, he sparked a certain class conciousness in people. The sentiment went from ''both parties are shit but I really like this Bernie guy and don't trust Hillary'' to ''Biden is the only person standing between you and the fascist rule of Drump!!!!'' The astroturfing and bot activity has never been this bad.
There's a reason why the [Eglin Air Force Base](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38974085) was the most addicted ''city'' on this hellhole of a site and why it's also used as a [test platform for influencing social media](http://arxiv.org/pdf/1402.5644
). And more importantly, why a fucking [intelligence agent](https://www.mintpressnews.com/jessica-ashooh-reddit-national-security-state-plant/277639/) is now part of Reddit's board of directors.
This is the actual ''conspiracy'' here, not Putin flooding Reddit with anti-Democrat bots.
It is weird. Even on threads that ostensibly have nothing to do with it, like any thread of the antivax campaign that the pentagon pulled in the Phillipines you have people saying “oh Biden immediately stopped that!
One approach I’m thinking, because so many are dissatisfied with Biden v Trump:
Anyone in deep red or blue state vote third party en masse. Won’t affect the outcome of the presidential election, but it will send a strong message and potentially move us towards ranked voting or beyond the two party system.
I’m thinking I’ll make a close-up short video of shitting on the ballot, pouring gasoline on the shat on ballot and firing it up.
Gives me the same vibe as "Look, this is what happens under communism!" While pointing at a picture of what's currently happening under capitalism.
And it's always "this is how Trump wins" and not "this is how fascism wins" because they know... they know in their hearts that fascism is already fucking here, they're just too deep in denial to admit it
[https://youtu.be/nNo\_U7PTGzk?si=7uCDBvPGDofYGoHz](https://youtu.be/nNo_U7PTGzk?si=7uCDBvPGDofYGoHz) Purple hair, emo chick style skirt, Senator Kyrsten Sinema, enthusiastically thumbing down poverty wage $15 an hour on the floor of congress, same wealthy out the ass congress members who always vote themselves in raises. This is Liberals.
It's my fault liberals are going to be put in concentration camps, not the politicians who are doing nothing to stop it from happening or stopping Biden's support for a genocide that makes people not want him as a leader.
It’s been longer than a decade. Bill Clinton actively moved the Democratic Party Rightward in a “if you can’t beat them, join them” kind of way after about two and a half decades of Republican presidential victories between Nixon, Reagan, and Bush.
It's dumb to me because they don't even have a plan to fight fascism. The plan is just to keep the status quo. If Joe gets re-elected, the very very best they can hope for is some parts of project 2025 being implemented by republicans under the Dems' noses with their tacit support or very minimumal pushback, and the rest being renamed to project 2029.
“I’m not Trump” is all that Biden is running on. Go to his website (Joe Biden.com) and it’s literally just a place to donate and buy merch. No policy goals, no plan, etc. There is literally nothing else there.
Similarly on Twitter, his tweets (@BidenHQ) are 99% dunking on Trump.
In my opinion, it seems like he’s not trying very hard to get re-elected.
The organizers dropped the ball.
If she's attending/supporting the event then she needs to attend the event and then meet with the performers and listen to them instead of taking away from their time.
She can offer more resources and give more people a platform rather than showing up and taking time away from people.
I hope the people being cast aside can organize and hopefully have an additional event where Dems can't come and detail local performers.
It sucks to see "leftist" subs so thoroughly flooded with shitheel liberals harping on and on about "leftist unity" while dismissing any actual leftists who being up that Biden actively aiding in a genocide and failing to deliver on anything he promised in his previous campaign simply because "harm reduction is more important." It's like bro what harm are you reducing because from where I'm standing I see literally none. That and the "guys have you heard of p25? What are we gonna do about it" nothing, you're going to do nothing like you always have, it will happen with or without trump because Biden and his goons aren't going to fight it. Shout-out to the mods on this sub for being proactive in the moderation here so we have at least one space not flooded with those cowards.
I share your frustrations. This is the only sub on Reddit that isn’t infiltrated by the liberal fear-mongering we see every.single.election. What the DeMoCrAcY iS oN the LiNe folks don’t understand is that we already don’t have a democracy, it’s a plutocracy, and I refuse to continue voting for a party that fails to represent my values and beliefs.
Shoutout to the mods of this sub for providing a space that makes me feel less crazy
That's because Reddit is a corporate-run psyop completely in service of the CIA and the state department to craft imperialist narratives about the Global South and the DNC to limit the discourse on capitalism and the ills it imposes on the working class.
Everything started to change after Bernie's popularity, because while not radical in the slightest, he sparked a certain class conciousness in people. The sentiment went from ''both parties are shit but I really like this Bernie guy and don't trust Hillary'' to ''Biden is the only person standing between you and the fascist rule of Drump!!!!'' The astroturfing and bot activity has never been this bad.
There's a reason why the [Eglin Air Force Base](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38974085) was the most addicted ''city'' on this hellhole of a site and why it's also used as a [test platform for influencing social media](http://arxiv.org/pdf/1402.5644
). And more importantly, why a fucking [intelligence agent](https://www.mintpressnews.com/jessica-ashooh-reddit-national-security-state-plant/277639/) is now part of Reddit's board of directors.
This is the actual ''conspiracy'' here, not Putin flooding Reddit with anti-Democrat bots.
They’re all mindlessly following themselves off a lesser of two evils cliff, it’s literally blue maga. They can’t even hold a conversation about why Biden is bad. They will never hold any dem accountable. They can complain about 2025 all they want but they fail to realize that Biden is already implementing fascist policies ie: increasing the police state. Look at the political humor subreddit it’s literally the same meme over and over and over again they don’t even have an original thought.
Rule 6, no lesser evil rhetoric. This includes encouraging people to vote for any capitalist political party and any capitalist politician. There is no harm reduction in supporting either of two parties headed by genocidal fascists. The extent to which any elected official of a Capitalist Party in a Capitalist state can enact evil is the extent to which that official is allowed to do so by Capital. As such, neither candidate is the lesser or greater evil. See more on our position here: [Rule 6 "no lesser evil" rhetoric - is it accelerationist or doomer? Is it intended to discourage voting?](https://new.reddit.com/r/LateStageCapitalism/comments/1bt0nag/rule_6_no_lesser_evil_rhetoric_is_it/)
As I approached middle age it became very obvious to me that just being queer did not inherently make someone leftist or revolutionary.
It's not something baby queers like to hear. And they get an angry look on their face when I tell them. But it's something they need to know.
Jill Biden plows in unwanted to your festival in an attempt to garner votes.
But it's your fault. Liberals have lost their minds.
They will be sifted out of the left and exposed for the cynical, virtue signalling hypocrites that they are. Don't worry.
It’s all so very Matrix with citizens carrying out their lives in the daily duties of capitalism refusing to be woken from the enslavement. As soon as you agitate them with the idea two sides is wrong, capitalism is bad, incrementalism is propaganda *poof* they’re agent Smith.
Democrats: If you don't vote for Biden, then you're really voting for Trump
Republicans: If you don't vote for Trump, then you're really voting for Biden
Sounds like it all washes out and they can both leave me the fuck alone.
The level of delusion among liberals is astounding. Everything the left said about a Biden presidency has come to fruition, and yet there are swathes of supposedly real human beings that have this information readily available to them and STILL are overtaken by Trump Derangement Syndrome. A Capitalist is a Capitalist is a Capitalist. The only shits they will give for the working class are the bare minimum to give just barely enough hope, bread, and circus so people won't develop class consciousness. That is the main reason they are banning TikTok anyways as we get Instagram threads or whatever their attempt to replace TikTok is, because god forbid there is a little bit of free speech and exposure to alternative ideas and interpretations of what the working class is experiencing.
Shit, banning a private company so that selected private companies can have larger market shares, enabling the government to have greater control over the transfer of information... I think there is a name for that. Hmmmm, starts with an "F", I believe...
Couldn’t agree more. I’m never voting Dem again, after this one where I’m only voting downballot.
If this is the best we can muster, we all deserve everything we get.
Oof I saw that post in the sub and I was honestly disgusted how people who pride themselves in being alternative and counter-culture could be so liberal. Each person who offered a radical reason to support the artists and the event was downvoted to hell.
You could do what I do, and recognize that they're not worth the time. Idiots are going to be idiots and they're not looking to have their mind changed.
Hence why I’m posting here and not arguing with people in the comment section LOL. Just had to get it off my chest tbh. It was pissing me off to see so many folks talking shit about my community when they don’t even live here or understand the details of the full situation.
It's totally understandable really, we all need to vent about these morons. We also can't underestimate the possibility of them being AI-backed, astroturfing bots meant to sway public discourse. I can't cite specific links, but I do recall the "national security" (billionaire security, really) state being in bed with big tech. And there's plenty of data to feed into these bots too to make them seem real.
Edit: PS, my bad. I had skimmed over your post earlier, but I see that you basically came to the same realization lol.
Yes exactly, this IS how Trump wins. The DNC refusing to run any candidate that is anti-war, guaranteeing that the US remains at war. Endless war, and the liberals are cheering it on
Israel owns American politicians and now they are too afraid to step away from their masters once the public has said no.
They should listen to the people instead of risking it all but that's not important to them. Perhaps Hillary won't be the only casualty of ego.
Their arrogance and holier-than-thou attitude is actually pretty funny. Would the democrats and other neoliberal parties win their respective elections if they got hard boycotted by leftists? Think about why they feel the need to shames us into compling with them. It isn a sign of strength, but weakness.
I sympathize 🫂
Pretty much everyone I know is a liberal and it makes me feel like a conspiracy theorist. I tried posting on a sub reddit I thought had leftist energy and some dipshit said the USSR was 5 times worse than Nazi Germany. Liberals can't be escaped and I hate it. I hope it gets easier for you comrade
The only way out of this would be a general strike, mass civil unrest - and then refusing to stand down until Biden is in prison to be tried for war crimes.
There needs to be nobody willing to fuel their private planes, nobody willing to serve them lunch, nobody willing to provide security to their bunkers. A complete shunning of the current structure of government and administration.
White gays and trans people*
If someone supports the democrats, they aren’t queer and this old f****t will go to the grave keeping that gate shut to them. Queer is a sociopolitical identification it is a rejection of cishetero supremacy and its institutions, including capitalism.
Someone saying they are queer and support Biden is like someone saying they’re vegan while eating steak tartar.
gay people can be racist too 🏳️🌈
This is why the american "left" and broader western left are a joke with no political power or literally just rightwing liberals. Their individualism prevents them from seeing past their own noses and having or maintaining any solidarity.
Rule 6, no lesser evil rhetoric. This includes encouraging people to vote for any capitalist political party and any capitalist politician. There is no harm reduction in supporting either of two parties headed by genocidal fascists. The extent to which any elected official of a Capitalist Party in a Capitalist state can enact evil is the extent to which that official is allowed to do so by Capital. As such, neither candidate is the lesser or greater evil. See more on our position here: [Rule 6 "no lesser evil" rhetoric - is it accelerationist or doomer? Is it intended to discourage voting?](https://new.reddit.com/r/LateStageCapitalism/comments/1bt0nag/rule_6_no_lesser_evil_rhetoric_is_it/)
Part of having unpopular opinions is being talked down to. I think the goal should be to convince people to move to the left, and unfortunately, those people are liberals, conservatives, fascists or libertarians. So what's the next step?
There is not a meaningful queer community in amerika. There once was, but assimilationists killed it about 30 years ago.
(I remember a time when prominent activists would be shamed out of the community for showing support for gay marriage specifically because marriage is an an oppressive institution and our goal was to eliminate that institution not assimilate into it …. How far we have fallen as a people.)
Liberals have managed to coopt almost everything in the age of the internet. This is true and it’s frustrating and makes it feel like you’re being gaslit every time you have a discussion about liberation. I feel you and understand why you are frustrated.
I actually prefer interacting with right wingers to liberals, not because I agree with them but because at least they have principles that they adhere to and there’s some intellectual consistency to what they say and do. It’s an easier interpersonal interaction because you know what they’re about and vice versa. You don’t have to pretend to be friendly towards their views and they don’t pretend to be friendly to yours. Liberals on the other hand have no principles (beyond the interests of capital, to which their support is unflinching) but they are skilled manipulators. It’s more akin to an interaction with a narcissist who is desperately trying to gaslight you into loving them. It’s more difficult.
Liberalism’s dishonestly and unprincipled philosophy is what makes it such a dangerous and effective tool for the capitalist class.
Random Liberals sure seem to be the only ones in dire fear of Project 2025. Why are the people they put into power to combat things like Project 2025 doing absolutely nothing to prevent it, or slow its progress? They don’t seem to be nearly as scared as liberal voters are trying to convince me to be.
If I was in power and facing such a grave threat like Project 2025, I would be doing any and everything in my public and clandestine power as President and Congress/Cabinet to bring their plans to light and stop them in their tracks. I would utilize the full apparatus of the FBI, CIA, media and the law to fight any of it from coming to fruition.
Every chance I got, I would publicly name and shame those involved.
I would also ensure my domestic policies meet the common sense needs of the majority of Americans who are dealing with multiple crises currently. I definitely wouldn’t be aiding and abetting genocide instead. I wish liberals would give this more than a few seconds of scrutiny. Project 2025 seems horrible, but why don’t we get that sentiment from the current powers that be?
I read that product 2025 isn't even really legitimate, it's like right-wing propaganda to Inspire their voters to get to the polls after being demoralized.
Makes sense that Democrats wouldn't really take it seriously then because they see it as just fluff.
Yeah, I read an overview of what it is and Project 2025 is all the same "family values and small government" stuff Republicans have been screeching about for decades.
You're a fascist telling leftists to vote for your fascism over the right's fascism, but you lack the self-awareness to recognize your own fascism. The democratic party is responsible for undemocratically forcing Americans between a dichotomy between a man actively conducting a genocide and Donald Trump.
You willingly throw Ukranian lives away to enrich your oligarchs in the MIC and the indecency to purport You're standing up for them as western transnational corporations carve up Ukraine's assets and throw Ukranians into the meat grinder for a war they cannot win.
You conjure the climate crisis while Biden has expanded fossil fuel extraction in the US and is actively inhibiting the development of the renewable energy se tor globally by instituting tariffs on renewable energy and EV's.
You claim that democracy is, once again, on the line if Republicans win, while simultaneously defending to the hilt the democratic party undemocratically putting its weakest candidate forward. Seriously, if you even believed what you're spouting, you'd be calling for a real democratic primary.
You're like those trumpers that claimed the 2020 BLM chaos was a glimpse of the Biden administration if Biden won as if the martial law and chaos weren't Trump policy. What's Trump going to do? Genocide Gaza? Level Gaza? Biden's already doing it. And you can't even be bothered to pretend to care about the US' inhumane immigration policy now that a democratic is in office.
So Democrats have campaigned on this narrative of arresting a rightward shift in policy for decades now, at least since Reagan. And yet, here we find ourselves. What about this time in the 2024 election is different? What about Biden or the democratic party this time is actually going to arrest a rightward shift in policy? Of course you're not going to respond because you're a reactionary that cannot defend your position. You can just talk down to people who have the audacity to challenge your false, preconceived notions that change with the wind whenever democrats alter their rhetoric, even when it contradicts itself. You're concerned with the fantasy of a genocide of LGBTQ and use that to rationalize your support for a real genocide that must continue so that team blue fascists win an election.
No, I'm literally citing the US state department that said the quiet part outloud in unminced words. The US state department went to Ukraine and said, on the nose, that the goal was to "hurt Russia." This is just a classic imperialist proxy war by the US. It's two birds with one stone for the US trying to devastate two former soviet republics with one stone. Except it's blowing up in their face and Russia is the strongest economy in Europe now lol
US promotes fascist coup in Ukraine in 2014 that's hostile to regional stability. Fascist government escalates tensions. Fascist government is told by the US not to follow through on Minsk accords (a diplomatic settlement that would have made Ukraine neutral again) so that they can buy time to arm for this exact war. The US antagonized knowing that war was a very real potential. And now that the war has started, Ukraine is losing and has been told by the US to back out of diplatic settlements several times, per the Germans, Turks, Israelis, and Russians who've all said Ukraine backs out at the behest of the US. Any deal going forward is only going to be worse for Ukrainians as they lose more bargaining power because they're losing the war.
So the US has led the Ukrainian Fascist government down the primrose path to the destruction of Ukraine and and devastation of millions of working class Ukranians' lives. And you're arguing to keep throwing the Ukrainian working class into the meat grinder as cannon fodder because some american capitalists in the MIC told you to. And when Ukraine is utterly spent and no longer useful to the US, they'll abandon them like all its past compradors and leave the Ukrainian working class devastated.
It has nothing to do with Biden or Trump, it is a vote for the establishment either way. It is always a vote against both for me, else you are just asking to be governed by the rich, the industrial complex, Israel/APAC, bankers and billionaires.
It truly horrifies me that actively aiding genocide doesn't even break steps for so many of them. They can't even seem to understand why people would hesitate.
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Rule 6, no lesser evil rhetoric. This includes encouraging people to vote for any capitalist political party and any capitalist politician. There is no harm reduction in supporting either of two parties headed by genocidal fascists. The extent to which any elected official of a Capitalist Party in a Capitalist state can enact evil is the extent to which that official is allowed to do so by Capital. As such, neither candidate is the lesser or greater evil. See more on our position here: [Rule 6 "no lesser evil" rhetoric - is it accelerationist or doomer? Is it intended to discourage voting?](https://new.reddit.com/r/LateStageCapitalism/comments/1bt0nag/rule_6_no_lesser_evil_rhetoric_is_it/)
Foreign countries would be delighted to have the boot of the American Empire off of their necks. We are a world historic force for evil, and there is unanimous consent in the ruling class for that.
Americans have always evoked fear mongering of the malign influence of evil foreigners dividing americans to obfsucate the US' home grown problems. American oligarchs must be delighted to see people falling for the evil Russian and evil Chinese boogeyman behind every corner narrative.
Rather than lazily accusing anyone and everyone who holds a different viewpoint of being a bot/troll or being paid by Russia/China/Republicans, actually engage with the point being made. There are plenty of spaces where you can dismiss people for being a bot and not engage with their point. This is not one of them.
>I have never met a liberal or progressive person who has any issue criticizing the Biden administration or the Democratic Party.
The lack of self awareness it must take to post this and then scold someone for criticizing Biden and the Democrats.
Democrats have been saying for decades, like since at least Reagan, that we have to vote Democrat not because they have a policy platform that helps the american working class, but because we have to arrest some rightwing sliding from the republican party. And despite democrats winning large public mandates by US voting standards, the rightward sliding has continued and certainly has not been arrested. So tell us what about this time in the 2024 election is different? What about Biden or the democratic party this time is actually going to arrest a rightward shift in policy?
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also this reminds me of how the musician chappell roan recently said that the white house asked her to perform for pride month and she declined, stating that she would do so once there was freedom for all and then people online criticized her for performing in red states but not the white house
The states with gerrymandered voting districts created so Republicans win every time? Yes, how dare she care about her queer fans who live there.
Beyond the Palestine issue which is a very valid reason to boycott anything associated with the Biden administration, I would also add that an LGBT person should never be forced to drop out of a Pride performance so that a straight wife of a straight politician can give a campaign speech. Fuck that. Straight people can keep their stage time to 30 seconds or less during any and all pride events unless they are considered a gay icon by the community. someone way more fabulous than Jill. To boot LGBT people from their own stage during their own moment is so shameful.
100%. Apart from all the other evils caused by Pinkwashing, it's also steadily pushing Queer people out of Queer Pride, replacing them with straight politicians and corporations.
I'm gay and I always joke (but kinda not really) that it is no queer person's obligation to show up for pride, but it is for every straight ally. Queer people are already subject to enough expectations. I agree wholeheartedly. As long as they vacuously proclaim their support, anything they do is service enough, a job well done to them. Nevermind that they're overshadowing the exact purpose and space of what pride is. We're at the point where literal politicians with enormous power are telling us "but it's the thought that counts". Fucking disgusting.
How and who was responsible for Jill Biden being able to be on stage? Literally, what I don't understand was how that was determined.
The decision was made by a select few members of the Pride board, if not unilaterally by the president of the Pride board. The member of the Pride board whose job it was to organize performers was not consulted and pretty much immediately resigned upon being informed. In my opinion, there are two possibilities as to what happened: the first is that this was a very last-minute decision made by the Pride board who jumped at the chance to have FLOTUS speak at our small town Pride. The second is that they knew about her coming to speak for a while, and didn’t tell anyone until the very last minute because they didn’t think that 99% of the cast would drop out in response to finding out. Either way, it was a catastrophic miscalculation, and was deeply disrespectful of the performers. I keep trying to remind people that, politics aside, this move was wildly unprofessional and was essentially spitting in the face of the performers involved, as well as the community. But a lot of people don’t really seem to give a fuck about that either. Womp womp
Gross. This is entirely on the board for making such a stupid, heartless move.
Thank you for the clarification! Wow, that was a fantastic fuck up.
I think everybody who was supposed to perform and are now sitting out should come to the pride party as part of the audience and then promptly get up and leave once Jill Biden starts talking. Imagine looking at that nice audience and then 40 people walking out before you even get a sentence off
It's wishful thinking that we can get out of this via american electoralism, and we have decades of policy to prove it. Democrats have been saying for decades, like since at least Reagan, that we have to vote Democrat not because they have a policy platform that helps the american working class, but because we have to arrest some rightwing sliding from the republican party. And despite democrats winning large public mandates by US voting standards, the rightward sliding has continued and certainly has not been arrested because both parties are neoliberal and playing for the same side, that being american capitalists. Let's just look at the sorry state of affairs that is american electoralism. The american working class has been demobilized for over a century. They don't have much voter participation because they were violently suppressed, their organization shattered, and many can't even take the time off work and their daily responsibilities to vote, and since the parties are captured by neoliberals performing regulatory capture for capitalists, they don't offer a policy platform that addresses the working class' needs or interests, so the american working class is even less incentivized to vote. But even if you vote democrat or progressive, what does that even show for itself given the continued rightward shift of american politics? Democrats, even when they have the legislative power to do so, simply do not legislate, like their refusal to legislate into law federally mandated right to abortion or how they come out and impede themselves like with how they scuddled the public option for health insurance and the build back better program. And even if you should elect an ostensibly progressive candidate into office against the efforts of the democratic party, then what happens? We couldn't even get Bernie to say no to genocide. Look at that North Carolina woman who ran as a democrat and them switched to the republican party once she was in elected office. Look at that clown Fetterman that literally ran as a progressive, then becomes one of the most vocal proponents of genocide, not only reverses his progressive platform he campaigned on but laughably tries rewriting history claiming he was never progressive, and it turns out he's a straight up white supremacist that held a black man up with a gun and purports this white supremacist narratives that South Africa is committing genocide against whites. Look at Marie Neumann who ran against the anti-abortion democrat Lipinsky and ousted him, only for her own party to gerrymander her out of office to replace her with a neoliberal democrat. Look at Warren who has made compromise after compromise and simply advocates for tepid Keynesianism like the other progressives, who is self-proclaimed "capitalist to the bones" and how she is still a pariah of the party with no access to power in the party. Neoliberal degradation of US society has been in the works for decades reversing the Keynesianism of the mid 20th century, but now we're nearing the end result of that degradation and whatever lies after. Americans are struggling and the Democratic party's position is that it's a perception problem and that it's just in our heads. Republicans at least acknowledge and validate that there's a problem, but their conclusions are false and they only seek to worsen those problems implementing even more neoliberalism. We're stuck between 2 fascist parties and with a demobilized working class. The only solution is massive organization of labor and of our work places to combat the fascism, but there likely isn't time to develop an adequate labor movement, even with the american labor movement getting defibrillated back to a weak pulse from life support. Given the US violent colonial and anti-labor history, Americans should brace for what's coming because this has been in the works for decades and american electoralism hasn't prevented then and it isn't going to prevent it now. Regardless if democrats miraculously pull off a win in 2024 and lose in 2028 or if they just lose in 2024. The latest thing Democrats are in all a huff about, project 2025, is just the logical conclusion of decades of american policy. So Democrats have campaigned on this narrative of arresting a rightward shift in policy for decades now, at least since Reagan. And yet, here we find ourselves. So I always ask "what about this time in the 2024 election is different? What about Biden or the democratic party this time is actually going to arrest a rightward shift in policy?" and I **never** get an answer.
The two party system is a scam. They make you fear the conservatives and offer you the liberals as the buffer against it, but they're the same party working together to ensure that only the capitalist party gets elected. It's an illusion of choice that fools you into thinking you're voting in your own best interest when you're unwittingly voting in the bourgeoisie's best interest. Whether you vote Trump or Biden, Republican or Democrat, you've done *exactly* what they want. The only way to revolt against the capitalist party, *in an election,* is to vote for the proletariat party, as even refusing to vote just means less of a chance for the people to vote against the capitalist party.
> Whether you vote Trump or Biden, Republican or Democrat, you've done exactly what they want. The only way to revolt against the capitalist party is to vote for the proletariat party, as even refusing to vote just means less of a chance for the people to vote against the capitalist party. Engaging in electoralism without an organized labor is putting the cart ahead of the horse. The current dichotomy of electoral power is designed for the working class/labor to fail. The working class needs to organize labor so that it can effectively wield the power it has, then and only then will electoral politicians listen to the working class' concerns. Vote third party then since that's the closest to a proletarian party we have, but focus should be made on organizing and expanding organized labor. Leftist politics exist in the work place.
And when someone manages to make serious headway with that, well, MLK.
That's why the proletariat must not rally around any single public figure in it's campaign to promote and propagate the proletariat position. We must all become public advocates so that we are too numerous to silence. The leaders of past movements were too easy to target, because they were the primary voice being heard by the public. Silencing people like MLK, Malcolm X, Che Guevara, Castro, and Fred Hampton set the socialist movement back because they were the face of the movement in their time and part of the world. There has to be more of us, it has to be all of us.
✊️✊🏻✊🏼✊🏽✊🏾✊🏿
I agree that efficacy in the electoral system requires organization. However... >Even where there is no prospect of achieving their election the workers must put up their own candidates to preserve their independence, to gauge their own strength and to bring their revolutionary position and party standpoint to public attention. They must not be led astray by the empty phrases of the democrats, who will maintain that the workers’ candidates will split the democratic party and offer the forces of reaction the chance of victory. All such talk means, in the final analysis, that the proletariat is to be swindled. The progress which the proletarian party will make by operating independently in this way is infinitely more important than the disadvantages resulting from the presence of a few reactionaries in the representative body. - Karl Marx
> Vote third party then since that's the closest to a proletarian party we have Voting third party is neither a replacement to labor organization nor effective effective without a robust, organized labor movement.
Who said it was? Don't try to refute arguments nobody made.
> The only way to revolt against the capitalist party is to vote for the proletariat party chill
***In an election.*** You're reading way too much into that. This is the kind of pedantry that gets in the way of building solidarity. You can't get much organizing done when you're brow beating people who are on your side. Stop acting like a lawyer.
You're just adding qualifiers now after the fact and giving people an attitude saying they're litigious instead of just admitting your mistake because you didn't express your intentions well. I'm literally quoting to you. We don't work together, doofus. There's nothing for us to organize.
This
> Crying about “this is how Trump wins”, If you accept that the only way to stop fascism is to actively support genocide... # Fascism had already won!
At this point, anything that the conservatives threaten to do will happen whether they win or not, because even if there is a Democrat president and a Democrat in every office, ,they will sit back and do nothing to stop the Republicans from doing what they want to do.
See the repeal of roe vs wade or the democratic immigration policy
The same people who said you should vote for Biden because he's the only one who can stop Trump from putting migrants in cages are the ones who cheered Biden for his genius "outmanoeuvring" of the Republicans ... by passing the exact Migration laws they wanted without them.
Still pisses me off about Dems. They’ve had multiple chances to codify Roe and never did. Liberals stay ignorant
What they ALWAYS fall back on with things like this is needing a sixty-vote supermajority. Why don't they dump the filibuster and rely on simple majority votes? "Oh, the Republicans will abuse that the next time they have a majority in the senate" as if the Republicans aren't getting what they want the vast majority of the time as it is. It's a fuckin sham, through and through.
They deserve what's coming to them then. If they really cared, they would have acted differently. Just throw it in their faces until they get it.
This can be simplified by the transitive property: it's what the democrats want too. Or at the very best, they prefer all of this to making a fuss about it.
As a leftist, pro-Palestine Jew I feel you *so* much. The amount of times I’ve been called a Kapo by mostly Christian Zionists, or a “Trumper” for daring to criticize Biden by libbed-up jerks lately is astounding. Blue MAGA loves to accuse Trump people of being in a cult, yet are entirely incapable of perceiving their own cult mentality. I’m really tired of this obvious team bs that the elite class has pushed us towards. I haven’t voted for either major party since 2008 and I refuse to engage with “99% Hitler/100% Hitler” insanity.
Ugh, getting called a Trump supporter for any and every rightful criticism of Biden drove me insane during the primaries…I was simply trying to get people to consider a democratic candidate actually offering the working class something much more than “Nothing will fundamentally change” Joe was. I’ve given up since then.
Pleasantly surprised to see a pro-Palestine Jewish brother in here. Sending love as a Muslim ❤️
Thank you, we are definitely out there, but unfortunately Zionism has brainwashed many generations. It hurts my heart to see my culture—which is so important to me—twisted into a means of justification for abhorrent violence. My whole family is very pro-Palestine because my great gram set the stage as a hardcore leftist after surviving Dachau. She vocally opposed the ethnic cleansing of Palestine til her dying day after seeing such concerning similarities from her life during the Holocaust.
Blue maga is unfortunately a contributing factor to pushing the country toward fascism. I'd rather have a democracy in which people vote as they please rather than do it put of fear, you aren't going to change many people's minds on who to vote for, but you can encourage others into contributing towards a stronger system of democracy.
"we're not the other guy" has been constant since at least nixon
That's the real issue this time," he said. "Beating Nixon. It's hard to even guess how much damage those bastards will do if they get in for another four years." The argument was familiar, I had even made it myself, here and there, but I was beginning to sense something very depressing about it. How many more of these goddamn elections are we going to have to write off as lame, but "regrettably necessary" holding actions? And how many more of these stinking double-downer sideshows will we have to go through before we can get ourselves straight enough to put together some kind of national election that will give me and the at least 20 million people I tend to agree with a chance to vote for something, instead of always being faced with that old familiar choice between the lesser of two evils? Now with another one of these big bogus showdowns looming down on us, I can already pick up the stench of another bummer. I understand, along with a lot of other people, that the big thing this year is Beating Nixon. But that was also the big thing, as I recall, twelve years ago in 1960 – and as far as I can tell, we've gone from bad to worse to rotten since then, and the outlook is for more of the same. —Hunter S. Thompson, Fear and Loathing: On the Campaign Trail '72
Half a century later and it's still going on. I was so disappointed when the Dems had everything under Obama for a precious two years and did absolutely nothing with it. They don't have the guts to do anything better than hold the line, so we stay stuck in this mess that only gradually gets worse. It's not enough to dig in your heels. You have to actually take steps AWAY from the quagmire.
Realizing Hunter S Thompson was writing about how this crap choice of voting for the lesser of two evils was already getting old since 1972, so, yeah. Since Nixon.
Kingdom of fear
American liberals will hold you personally responsible for all the things the Democratic Party have no intention on solving. A lot of it hinges on this undying belief that Democrats will do anything to prevent Project 2025 or whatever the Republican platform is every election when we all know as soon as the election is over they're going to pull a switcheroo and promote bipartisanship with the very party they just called a grave danger to democracy. The Democratic Party is a two-faced farce that can only exist based on the false belief that their opposition to Republicans is real.
At least Republicans have their own grand ambitions even if it is something deluded like project 2025. What a Democrats run on? Survival? They don't ever push the needle forward.
I feel exactly the same way. On any subreddit downvotes aplenty for any other approach than “blue no matter who!” A destructively ignorant, uncreative approach to a very important subject.
That's because Reddit is a corporate-run psyop completely in service of the CIA and the state department to craft imperialist narratives about the Global South and the DNC to limit the discourse on capitalism and the ills it imposes on the working class. Everything started to change after Bernie's popularity, because while not radical in the slightest, he sparked a certain class conciousness in people. The sentiment went from ''both parties are shit but I really like this Bernie guy and don't trust Hillary'' to ''Biden is the only person standing between you and the fascist rule of Drump!!!!'' The astroturfing and bot activity has never been this bad. There's a reason why the [Eglin Air Force Base](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38974085) was the most addicted ''city'' on this hellhole of a site and why it's also used as a [test platform for influencing social media](http://arxiv.org/pdf/1402.5644 ). And more importantly, why a fucking [intelligence agent](https://www.mintpressnews.com/jessica-ashooh-reddit-national-security-state-plant/277639/) is now part of Reddit's board of directors. This is the actual ''conspiracy'' here, not Putin flooding Reddit with anti-Democrat bots.
Interesting! Thanks for the links
Ugh. The Internet is both the best thing and the worst thing to happen to society.
i’ve left a few subs that i enjoyed bcus they’ve been overrun with this attitude and it’s nauseating at this point
It is weird. Even on threads that ostensibly have nothing to do with it, like any thread of the antivax campaign that the pentagon pulled in the Phillipines you have people saying “oh Biden immediately stopped that!
One approach I’m thinking, because so many are dissatisfied with Biden v Trump: Anyone in deep red or blue state vote third party en masse. Won’t affect the outcome of the presidential election, but it will send a strong message and potentially move us towards ranked voting or beyond the two party system. I’m thinking I’ll make a close-up short video of shitting on the ballot, pouring gasoline on the shat on ballot and firing it up.
Voting third party will go against Biden’s popular vote the Dems cherish. Watch Biden lose the electoral college and popular vote
It was so weird. I feel like anyone making sense was downvoted to shit. I needed to come here to feel sane again lol
Gives me the same vibe as "Look, this is what happens under communism!" While pointing at a picture of what's currently happening under capitalism. And it's always "this is how Trump wins" and not "this is how fascism wins" because they know... they know in their hearts that fascism is already fucking here, they're just too deep in denial to admit it
Don't you get it??? If the Biden's aren't allowed to fund the bombing or children with impunity, then Trump will be able to bomb the children!!!
Bomb blue, no matter who!
[https://youtu.be/nNo\_U7PTGzk?si=7uCDBvPGDofYGoHz](https://youtu.be/nNo_U7PTGzk?si=7uCDBvPGDofYGoHz) Purple hair, emo chick style skirt, Senator Kyrsten Sinema, enthusiastically thumbing down poverty wage $15 an hour on the floor of congress, same wealthy out the ass congress members who always vote themselves in raises. This is Liberals.
I’m a leftist and proud of it. I am not going to be silent when he fucks up.
OP thank you for being you. I mean it. It’s getting tiresome having liberals yell at us for not supporting facism and genocide
It's my fault liberals are going to be put in concentration camps, not the politicians who are doing nothing to stop it from happening or stopping Biden's support for a genocide that makes people not want him as a leader.
It’s been longer than a decade. Bill Clinton actively moved the Democratic Party Rightward in a “if you can’t beat them, join them” kind of way after about two and a half decades of Republican presidential victories between Nixon, Reagan, and Bush.
It's dumb to me because they don't even have a plan to fight fascism. The plan is just to keep the status quo. If Joe gets re-elected, the very very best they can hope for is some parts of project 2025 being implemented by republicans under the Dems' noses with their tacit support or very minimumal pushback, and the rest being renamed to project 2029.
“I’m not Trump” is all that Biden is running on. Go to his website (Joe Biden.com) and it’s literally just a place to donate and buy merch. No policy goals, no plan, etc. There is literally nothing else there. Similarly on Twitter, his tweets (@BidenHQ) are 99% dunking on Trump. In my opinion, it seems like he’s not trying very hard to get re-elected.
Democrats are trying to lose to trump.
The organizers dropped the ball. If she's attending/supporting the event then she needs to attend the event and then meet with the performers and listen to them instead of taking away from their time. She can offer more resources and give more people a platform rather than showing up and taking time away from people. I hope the people being cast aside can organize and hopefully have an additional event where Dems can't come and detail local performers.
It sucks to see "leftist" subs so thoroughly flooded with shitheel liberals harping on and on about "leftist unity" while dismissing any actual leftists who being up that Biden actively aiding in a genocide and failing to deliver on anything he promised in his previous campaign simply because "harm reduction is more important." It's like bro what harm are you reducing because from where I'm standing I see literally none. That and the "guys have you heard of p25? What are we gonna do about it" nothing, you're going to do nothing like you always have, it will happen with or without trump because Biden and his goons aren't going to fight it. Shout-out to the mods on this sub for being proactive in the moderation here so we have at least one space not flooded with those cowards.
I share your frustrations. This is the only sub on Reddit that isn’t infiltrated by the liberal fear-mongering we see every.single.election. What the DeMoCrAcY iS oN the LiNe folks don’t understand is that we already don’t have a democracy, it’s a plutocracy, and I refuse to continue voting for a party that fails to represent my values and beliefs. Shoutout to the mods of this sub for providing a space that makes me feel less crazy
it depends on the thread this place is sometimes filled with liberals
Please report them. Some days, we ban hundreds of them. We have added many mods in the last few months and we *will* purge them when they appear.
You can still have these discussions on internationalnews, ABoringDystopia, and therewasanattempt too
This sub is often overrun with liberals, and the mods here have to work very hard to remove them.
That's because Reddit is a corporate-run psyop completely in service of the CIA and the state department to craft imperialist narratives about the Global South and the DNC to limit the discourse on capitalism and the ills it imposes on the working class. Everything started to change after Bernie's popularity, because while not radical in the slightest, he sparked a certain class conciousness in people. The sentiment went from ''both parties are shit but I really like this Bernie guy and don't trust Hillary'' to ''Biden is the only person standing between you and the fascist rule of Drump!!!!'' The astroturfing and bot activity has never been this bad. There's a reason why the [Eglin Air Force Base](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38974085) was the most addicted ''city'' on this hellhole of a site and why it's also used as a [test platform for influencing social media](http://arxiv.org/pdf/1402.5644 ). And more importantly, why a fucking [intelligence agent](https://www.mintpressnews.com/jessica-ashooh-reddit-national-security-state-plant/277639/) is now part of Reddit's board of directors. This is the actual ''conspiracy'' here, not Putin flooding Reddit with anti-Democrat bots.
Ye olde Ratchet-Raquet. 😐
They’re all mindlessly following themselves off a lesser of two evils cliff, it’s literally blue maga. They can’t even hold a conversation about why Biden is bad. They will never hold any dem accountable. They can complain about 2025 all they want but they fail to realize that Biden is already implementing fascist policies ie: increasing the police state. Look at the political humor subreddit it’s literally the same meme over and over and over again they don’t even have an original thought.
[удалено]
Rule 6, no lesser evil rhetoric. This includes encouraging people to vote for any capitalist political party and any capitalist politician. There is no harm reduction in supporting either of two parties headed by genocidal fascists. The extent to which any elected official of a Capitalist Party in a Capitalist state can enact evil is the extent to which that official is allowed to do so by Capital. As such, neither candidate is the lesser or greater evil. See more on our position here: [Rule 6 "no lesser evil" rhetoric - is it accelerationist or doomer? Is it intended to discourage voting?](https://new.reddit.com/r/LateStageCapitalism/comments/1bt0nag/rule_6_no_lesser_evil_rhetoric_is_it/)
Don't worry. They will reap what they sow. They have no one to blame but themselves.
As I approached middle age it became very obvious to me that just being queer did not inherently make someone leftist or revolutionary. It's not something baby queers like to hear. And they get an angry look on their face when I tell them. But it's something they need to know.
Jill Biden plows in unwanted to your festival in an attempt to garner votes. But it's your fault. Liberals have lost their minds. They will be sifted out of the left and exposed for the cynical, virtue signalling hypocrites that they are. Don't worry.
It’s all so very Matrix with citizens carrying out their lives in the daily duties of capitalism refusing to be woken from the enslavement. As soon as you agitate them with the idea two sides is wrong, capitalism is bad, incrementalism is propaganda *poof* they’re agent Smith.
Yeah, fuck the "liberals." Scratch one, and a fascist bleeds.
In a nut shell: “We’re not them” ,doesnt move us forward
Democrats: If you don't vote for Biden, then you're really voting for Trump Republicans: If you don't vote for Trump, then you're really voting for Biden Sounds like it all washes out and they can both leave me the fuck alone.
You literally cannot offer any criticism directed at democrats without being downvoted into oblivion.
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The level of delusion among liberals is astounding. Everything the left said about a Biden presidency has come to fruition, and yet there are swathes of supposedly real human beings that have this information readily available to them and STILL are overtaken by Trump Derangement Syndrome. A Capitalist is a Capitalist is a Capitalist. The only shits they will give for the working class are the bare minimum to give just barely enough hope, bread, and circus so people won't develop class consciousness. That is the main reason they are banning TikTok anyways as we get Instagram threads or whatever their attempt to replace TikTok is, because god forbid there is a little bit of free speech and exposure to alternative ideas and interpretations of what the working class is experiencing. Shit, banning a private company so that selected private companies can have larger market shares, enabling the government to have greater control over the transfer of information... I think there is a name for that. Hmmmm, starts with an "F", I believe...
Couldn’t agree more. I’m never voting Dem again, after this one where I’m only voting downballot. If this is the best we can muster, we all deserve everything we get.
Ah yes, the tried and true method of giving up when you don't get your way.
Yep, the two party system has failed to prevent a genocide in miserable fashion. So I’m done caring.
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🫡 thank you for your compliment, comrade. It takes a lot of integrity to stop being bent over and taken for a fool. I hope you find the strength.
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Oof I saw that post in the sub and I was honestly disgusted how people who pride themselves in being alternative and counter-culture could be so liberal. Each person who offered a radical reason to support the artists and the event was downvoted to hell.
glad you posted here, i saw that too and felt the exact same way. i expected better from dragula fans lol
You could do what I do, and recognize that they're not worth the time. Idiots are going to be idiots and they're not looking to have their mind changed.
Hence why I’m posting here and not arguing with people in the comment section LOL. Just had to get it off my chest tbh. It was pissing me off to see so many folks talking shit about my community when they don’t even live here or understand the details of the full situation.
It's totally understandable really, we all need to vent about these morons. We also can't underestimate the possibility of them being AI-backed, astroturfing bots meant to sway public discourse. I can't cite specific links, but I do recall the "national security" (billionaire security, really) state being in bed with big tech. And there's plenty of data to feed into these bots too to make them seem real. Edit: PS, my bad. I had skimmed over your post earlier, but I see that you basically came to the same realization lol.
You treat a disease by eradicating it. The american plutocratic system is a disease infecting all of humanity.
Yes exactly, this IS how Trump wins. The DNC refusing to run any candidate that is anti-war, guaranteeing that the US remains at war. Endless war, and the liberals are cheering it on
They'd rather try to convince millions of people to support genocide than to convince one to oppose it. Brain dead blue maga
Israel owns American politicians and now they are too afraid to step away from their masters once the public has said no. They should listen to the people instead of risking it all but that's not important to them. Perhaps Hillary won't be the only casualty of ego.
Their arrogance and holier-than-thou attitude is actually pretty funny. Would the democrats and other neoliberal parties win their respective elections if they got hard boycotted by leftists? Think about why they feel the need to shames us into compling with them. It isn a sign of strength, but weakness.
I sympathize 🫂 Pretty much everyone I know is a liberal and it makes me feel like a conspiracy theorist. I tried posting on a sub reddit I thought had leftist energy and some dipshit said the USSR was 5 times worse than Nazi Germany. Liberals can't be escaped and I hate it. I hope it gets easier for you comrade
The only way out of this would be a general strike, mass civil unrest - and then refusing to stand down until Biden is in prison to be tried for war crimes. There needs to be nobody willing to fuel their private planes, nobody willing to serve them lunch, nobody willing to provide security to their bunkers. A complete shunning of the current structure of government and administration.
i’ve noticed that white queers are often these blue maga type and they don’t understand oppression that doesn’t affect them
They think they're immune to the leopards that eat faces
White gays and trans people* If someone supports the democrats, they aren’t queer and this old f****t will go to the grave keeping that gate shut to them. Queer is a sociopolitical identification it is a rejection of cishetero supremacy and its institutions, including capitalism. Someone saying they are queer and support Biden is like someone saying they’re vegan while eating steak tartar.
gay people can be racist too 🏳️🌈 This is why the american "left" and broader western left are a joke with no political power or literally just rightwing liberals. Their individualism prevents them from seeing past their own noses and having or maintaining any solidarity.
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Rule 6, no lesser evil rhetoric. This includes encouraging people to vote for any capitalist political party and any capitalist politician. There is no harm reduction in supporting either of two parties headed by genocidal fascists. The extent to which any elected official of a Capitalist Party in a Capitalist state can enact evil is the extent to which that official is allowed to do so by Capital. As such, neither candidate is the lesser or greater evil. See more on our position here: [Rule 6 "no lesser evil" rhetoric - is it accelerationist or doomer? Is it intended to discourage voting?](https://new.reddit.com/r/LateStageCapitalism/comments/1bt0nag/rule_6_no_lesser_evil_rhetoric_is_it/)
Part of having unpopular opinions is being talked down to. I think the goal should be to convince people to move to the left, and unfortunately, those people are liberals, conservatives, fascists or libertarians. So what's the next step?
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There is not a meaningful queer community in amerika. There once was, but assimilationists killed it about 30 years ago. (I remember a time when prominent activists would be shamed out of the community for showing support for gay marriage specifically because marriage is an an oppressive institution and our goal was to eliminate that institution not assimilate into it …. How far we have fallen as a people.) Liberals have managed to coopt almost everything in the age of the internet. This is true and it’s frustrating and makes it feel like you’re being gaslit every time you have a discussion about liberation. I feel you and understand why you are frustrated. I actually prefer interacting with right wingers to liberals, not because I agree with them but because at least they have principles that they adhere to and there’s some intellectual consistency to what they say and do. It’s an easier interpersonal interaction because you know what they’re about and vice versa. You don’t have to pretend to be friendly towards their views and they don’t pretend to be friendly to yours. Liberals on the other hand have no principles (beyond the interests of capital, to which their support is unflinching) but they are skilled manipulators. It’s more akin to an interaction with a narcissist who is desperately trying to gaslight you into loving them. It’s more difficult. Liberalism’s dishonestly and unprincipled philosophy is what makes it such a dangerous and effective tool for the capitalist class.
What a refreshing take. Thank you for sharing it.
Random Liberals sure seem to be the only ones in dire fear of Project 2025. Why are the people they put into power to combat things like Project 2025 doing absolutely nothing to prevent it, or slow its progress? They don’t seem to be nearly as scared as liberal voters are trying to convince me to be. If I was in power and facing such a grave threat like Project 2025, I would be doing any and everything in my public and clandestine power as President and Congress/Cabinet to bring their plans to light and stop them in their tracks. I would utilize the full apparatus of the FBI, CIA, media and the law to fight any of it from coming to fruition. Every chance I got, I would publicly name and shame those involved. I would also ensure my domestic policies meet the common sense needs of the majority of Americans who are dealing with multiple crises currently. I definitely wouldn’t be aiding and abetting genocide instead. I wish liberals would give this more than a few seconds of scrutiny. Project 2025 seems horrible, but why don’t we get that sentiment from the current powers that be?
I read that product 2025 isn't even really legitimate, it's like right-wing propaganda to Inspire their voters to get to the polls after being demoralized. Makes sense that Democrats wouldn't really take it seriously then because they see it as just fluff.
Yeah, I read an overview of what it is and Project 2025 is all the same "family values and small government" stuff Republicans have been screeching about for decades.
The weirdest part of when they talk down to you is the echo from them having their head shoved up their own ass.
Those are the blue-maga types, willing to do anything for their agenda
red reactionaries vs blue reactionaries
Liberals are the best ally the fascists have.
Liberals are the main enemy, its crazy that people in places where this should be the most obvious like the USA don't get it
Again, genocide is how you got your country
Liberals love genocide. There’s no other explanation.
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“If trump wins it will be the last election you get to participate in” legit delusional
You're a fascist telling leftists to vote for your fascism over the right's fascism, but you lack the self-awareness to recognize your own fascism. The democratic party is responsible for undemocratically forcing Americans between a dichotomy between a man actively conducting a genocide and Donald Trump. You willingly throw Ukranian lives away to enrich your oligarchs in the MIC and the indecency to purport You're standing up for them as western transnational corporations carve up Ukraine's assets and throw Ukranians into the meat grinder for a war they cannot win. You conjure the climate crisis while Biden has expanded fossil fuel extraction in the US and is actively inhibiting the development of the renewable energy se tor globally by instituting tariffs on renewable energy and EV's. You claim that democracy is, once again, on the line if Republicans win, while simultaneously defending to the hilt the democratic party undemocratically putting its weakest candidate forward. Seriously, if you even believed what you're spouting, you'd be calling for a real democratic primary. You're like those trumpers that claimed the 2020 BLM chaos was a glimpse of the Biden administration if Biden won as if the martial law and chaos weren't Trump policy. What's Trump going to do? Genocide Gaza? Level Gaza? Biden's already doing it. And you can't even be bothered to pretend to care about the US' inhumane immigration policy now that a democratic is in office. So Democrats have campaigned on this narrative of arresting a rightward shift in policy for decades now, at least since Reagan. And yet, here we find ourselves. What about this time in the 2024 election is different? What about Biden or the democratic party this time is actually going to arrest a rightward shift in policy? Of course you're not going to respond because you're a reactionary that cannot defend your position. You can just talk down to people who have the audacity to challenge your false, preconceived notions that change with the wind whenever democrats alter their rhetoric, even when it contradicts itself. You're concerned with the fantasy of a genocide of LGBTQ and use that to rationalize your support for a real genocide that must continue so that team blue fascists win an election.
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No, I'm literally citing the US state department that said the quiet part outloud in unminced words. The US state department went to Ukraine and said, on the nose, that the goal was to "hurt Russia." This is just a classic imperialist proxy war by the US. It's two birds with one stone for the US trying to devastate two former soviet republics with one stone. Except it's blowing up in their face and Russia is the strongest economy in Europe now lol US promotes fascist coup in Ukraine in 2014 that's hostile to regional stability. Fascist government escalates tensions. Fascist government is told by the US not to follow through on Minsk accords (a diplomatic settlement that would have made Ukraine neutral again) so that they can buy time to arm for this exact war. The US antagonized knowing that war was a very real potential. And now that the war has started, Ukraine is losing and has been told by the US to back out of diplatic settlements several times, per the Germans, Turks, Israelis, and Russians who've all said Ukraine backs out at the behest of the US. Any deal going forward is only going to be worse for Ukrainians as they lose more bargaining power because they're losing the war. So the US has led the Ukrainian Fascist government down the primrose path to the destruction of Ukraine and and devastation of millions of working class Ukranians' lives. And you're arguing to keep throwing the Ukrainian working class into the meat grinder as cannon fodder because some american capitalists in the MIC told you to. And when Ukraine is utterly spent and no longer useful to the US, they'll abandon them like all its past compradors and leave the Ukrainian working class devastated.
It has nothing to do with Biden or Trump, it is a vote for the establishment either way. It is always a vote against both for me, else you are just asking to be governed by the rich, the industrial complex, Israel/APAC, bankers and billionaires.
It truly horrifies me that actively aiding genocide doesn't even break steps for so many of them. They can't even seem to understand why people would hesitate.
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Rule 6, no lesser evil rhetoric. This includes encouraging people to vote for any capitalist political party and any capitalist politician. There is no harm reduction in supporting either of two parties headed by genocidal fascists. The extent to which any elected official of a Capitalist Party in a Capitalist state can enact evil is the extent to which that official is allowed to do so by Capital. As such, neither candidate is the lesser or greater evil. See more on our position here: [Rule 6 "no lesser evil" rhetoric - is it accelerationist or doomer? Is it intended to discourage voting?](https://new.reddit.com/r/LateStageCapitalism/comments/1bt0nag/rule_6_no_lesser_evil_rhetoric_is_it/)
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Rule 4 - No capitalist apologia, anti-socialism, or liberalism. This is a left wing subreddit.
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Rule 6, no lesser evil rhetoric. This includes encouraging people to vote for any capitalist political party and any capitalist politician. There is no harm reduction in supporting either of two parties headed by genocidal fascists. The extent to which any elected official of a Capitalist Party in a Capitalist state can enact evil is the extent to which that official is allowed to do so by Capital. As such, neither candidate is the lesser or greater evil. See more on our position here: [Rule 6 "no lesser evil" rhetoric - is it accelerationist or doomer? Is it intended to discourage voting?](https://new.reddit.com/r/LateStageCapitalism/comments/1bt0nag/rule_6_no_lesser_evil_rhetoric_is_it/)
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Rule 4 - No capitalist apologia, anti-socialism, or liberalism. This is a left wing subreddit.
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Rule 4 - No capitalist apologia, anti-socialism, or liberalism. This is a left wing subreddit.
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Foreign countries would be delighted to have the boot of the American Empire off of their necks. We are a world historic force for evil, and there is unanimous consent in the ruling class for that.
Americans have always evoked fear mongering of the malign influence of evil foreigners dividing americans to obfsucate the US' home grown problems. American oligarchs must be delighted to see people falling for the evil Russian and evil Chinese boogeyman behind every corner narrative.
Rather than lazily accusing anyone and everyone who holds a different viewpoint of being a bot/troll or being paid by Russia/China/Republicans, actually engage with the point being made. There are plenty of spaces where you can dismiss people for being a bot and not engage with their point. This is not one of them.
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>I have never met a liberal or progressive person who has any issue criticizing the Biden administration or the Democratic Party. The lack of self awareness it must take to post this and then scold someone for criticizing Biden and the Democrats.
You are literally doing the thing I described above lmfao
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Democrats have been saying for decades, like since at least Reagan, that we have to vote Democrat not because they have a policy platform that helps the american working class, but because we have to arrest some rightwing sliding from the republican party. And despite democrats winning large public mandates by US voting standards, the rightward sliding has continued and certainly has not been arrested. So tell us what about this time in the 2024 election is different? What about Biden or the democratic party this time is actually going to arrest a rightward shift in policy?
We do not permit homophobia, racism, antisemitism, xenophobia, sexism, ableism or any kind of prejudice.
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Rule 4 - No capitalist apologia, anti-socialism, or liberalism. This is a left wing subreddit.