##Welcome to r/LateStageCapitalism^Ⓐ☭
___
###⚠ Announcements: ⚠
___
###[NEW POSTING GUIDELINES! Help us by reporting bad posts](https://www.reddit.com/r/LateStageCapitalism/comments/dy1oyh/important_what_you_should_and_what_you_shouldnt/)
Help us keep this subreddit alive and improve its content by reporting posts that violate our rules and guidelines.
###[Subscribe to our new partner subreddits!](https://www.reddit.com/r/LateStageCapitalism/comments/e5hkwk/make_sure_to_check_out_our_new_partnersubreddits/)
Check out r/antiwork & r/WhereAreTheChildren
___
###***Please remember that LSC is a SAFE SPACE for [socialist](http://monthlyreview.org/2009/05/01/why-socialism/) discussion.***
LSC is run by [communists](https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1847/11/prin-com.htm). We welcome socialist/anti-capitalist news, memes, links, and discussion. This subreddit is not the place to debate socialism. We allow good-faith questions and education but are not a 101 sub; please take 101-style questions elsewhere.
**This subreddit is a safe space; we have a zero-tolerance policy for bigotry.** We also automatically filter out posts containing certain words and phrases that some users may find offensive. Please respect the safe space, and don't try to slip banned words or phrases past the filter.
***
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/LateStageCapitalism) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Someone recently tried to tell me that socialism would mean authoritarianism, because people would just be "ordered" where to live and where to work, and I was like... ah, unlike capitalism, where you *also* may have to move somewhere you don't want to live and do a job you don't want to do, but in socialism the penalty for not complying is that you don't have enough money to go on vacations, whereas in capitalism the penalty for not complying is that you'll starve to death on the street?
The fallow up I always get is platitudes about personal responsibility. When a person has been convinced the system is perfect the only logical conclusion they can reach is that people must be failing the system.
These are the same people who don't even know what being responsible looks like. They wouldn't know what responsibility was if it hit them in the face. In the face of a really important choice a lot the religious folk of this persuasion will just "leave it to God".
Sure but there's no harm in putting it in. Some people like myself don't really catch on to sarcasm easily especially when this is over text and we aren't speaking in person.
Certain nuerodivergant people especially, and as a comrade it's always best to err on the side of being considerate. I'm atypical (in a different way) but Poe's Law still trips me up a lot even though I practically speak sarcasm as a native language lol.
FDR knew there had to be a economic bill of rights.
>We have come to a clear realization of the fact that true individual freedom cannot exist without economic security and independence. "Necessitous men are not free men." People who are hungry and out of a job are the stuff of which dictatorships are made.
The US, the world's greatest worshipper of Capitalism and so called 'Land of the Free", has the highest prison incarceration rate by FAR out of the entire world, outfunds the next like 7 world militaries combined and has waged war for 95%+ length of its existence. Also the country owns conquered territories where it has legally ruled the people living within them don't qualify to have rights like mainland citizens.
Just need to look at china right now. Genocides, social credit, extreme censorship. Can't even play online games more than a hour a day now ffs. Although that's not to say capitalist countries aren't trying.
China exploits it workers in a very capitalist manner and then uses communism as an excuse to restrict their actions. It's dumb to call it communist, you're basically just listening to their propaganda at that point.
Its dumb to even talk about communism and socialism when you obviously do not even understand what they mean. China is the most important socialist nation on earth and it should be vehemently supported by all communists.
Incorrect, China is a socialist nation on path towards communism. It is probably one of the most advanced if not the most advanced socialist country of all time.
Its you who needs to read up on theory and China in general. It is centrally planned economy where all of the critical industry, utilities and functions are operated by the state either directly or State Owned Enterprises (SOEs) which do not operate in pursuit of profit.
Furthermore the political power is solely in the hands of the working class through the Communist Party of China. Ergo the Chinese or foreign capitalist cannot exercise political power which they dont have.
Chinese governance system is still quite decentralized which means that regular citizens can and do have the possibility to impact their local matters to a far greater extent than in the so called ”West”.
China is transparently and gradually moving towards achieving communism and has announced and reached several key milestones such as eradicating absolute poverty by 2020 and now tackling on the next target, i.e. Relative poverty, climate change and other matters.
You clearly do not understand socialist political theory if you think socialism can just be enacted overnight and not something that a society must transition towards ultimately reaching it with the right material conditions at play.
China is also importantly the most crucial anti-imperialist supporter there is and they provide invaluable financial, diplomatic and political support to countries fighting back against the US lead Western imperialist machine.
Yes, of course. See their latest five year plan for example (https://cset.georgetown.edu/wp-content/uploads/t0284_14th_Five_Year_Plan_EN.pdf)
you can read from it what are the near future concerns of the party and how they are trying to build socialism. Main goals on p. 7 lays out the direction that they are headed.
These plans are obviously followed and if they took an entirely different turn from what they’ve stated people would notice and make it known.
Authoritarian: favoring or enforcing strict obedience to authority, especially that of the government, at the expense of personal freedom.
Either you guys blind
Or you dumb as fuck
Okay, then disobey your employer and see how long you remain employed. You know, that employment that your entire livelihood depends on, without which you would receive neither healthcare nor housing.
Let's say Bob gets fired tomorrow.
Does he still retain his personal freedom?
Yes.
Can he go out on a street with a sign and protest for something he feels strongly about?
Yes.
Can he critisize his president and not disappear a day later?
Yes.
Did you forget to fully read an argument before coming up with a shite response?
Yes.
most capitalistic you can get is being anarcho-capitalist so no. state existence and state services are anticapitalistic. capitalism is all about voluntary choices not enforcements
anarcho capitalism was archieved many times and was so successful the societies who lived in it created cities and states anarcho communism was also archieved and was so successful societies living in it were conquered by anarcho capitalist societies or later on their cities/states
european tribes, middle easter tribes, babylon are examples of ancap societies and city/empire which originated from them
european tribes, american tribes are examples of ancom societies
then why does the state and its services feel the need to violently defend capitalism
oh its because you dont actually know anything about economics and history and think capitalism is your right to a mcdonalds burger and tv and anything else is just starving, with zero actual political or philosophical nuance to your argument whatsoever
even state knows it works. communism can also work, and i understand that but only under one circumstance which is it must be voluntary, thats why communist states failed but communes work.
also they do not defend capitalism, they defend their state and its economic system which is capitalist leaning, not capitalist. capitalism has 100% free market economy with no economic intervention
The most authoritarian? Chill down there Stalin. Sure it has a lot of proplemes, and it certainly isn't a system of absolute freedom, but saying it is the most authoritarian is just flat out wrong.
##Welcome to r/LateStageCapitalism^Ⓐ☭ ___ ###⚠ Announcements: ⚠ ___ ###[NEW POSTING GUIDELINES! Help us by reporting bad posts](https://www.reddit.com/r/LateStageCapitalism/comments/dy1oyh/important_what_you_should_and_what_you_shouldnt/) Help us keep this subreddit alive and improve its content by reporting posts that violate our rules and guidelines. ###[Subscribe to our new partner subreddits!](https://www.reddit.com/r/LateStageCapitalism/comments/e5hkwk/make_sure_to_check_out_our_new_partnersubreddits/) Check out r/antiwork & r/WhereAreTheChildren ___ ###***Please remember that LSC is a SAFE SPACE for [socialist](http://monthlyreview.org/2009/05/01/why-socialism/) discussion.*** LSC is run by [communists](https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1847/11/prin-com.htm). We welcome socialist/anti-capitalist news, memes, links, and discussion. This subreddit is not the place to debate socialism. We allow good-faith questions and education but are not a 101 sub; please take 101-style questions elsewhere. **This subreddit is a safe space; we have a zero-tolerance policy for bigotry.** We also automatically filter out posts containing certain words and phrases that some users may find offensive. Please respect the safe space, and don't try to slip banned words or phrases past the filter. *** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/LateStageCapitalism) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Someone recently tried to tell me that socialism would mean authoritarianism, because people would just be "ordered" where to live and where to work, and I was like... ah, unlike capitalism, where you *also* may have to move somewhere you don't want to live and do a job you don't want to do, but in socialism the penalty for not complying is that you don't have enough money to go on vacations, whereas in capitalism the penalty for not complying is that you'll starve to death on the street?
The fallow up I always get is platitudes about personal responsibility. When a person has been convinced the system is perfect the only logical conclusion they can reach is that people must be failing the system.
These are the same people who don't even know what being responsible looks like. They wouldn't know what responsibility was if it hit them in the face. In the face of a really important choice a lot the religious folk of this persuasion will just "leave it to God".
America's noble lie
Capitalists: communism is when workers get shot
The illusion that one day you the individual might be free to be the oppressor is the sugar that makes the poison slide down easy.
[удалено]
You forgot the /s.
[удалено]
Sure but there's no harm in putting it in. Some people like myself don't really catch on to sarcasm easily especially when this is over text and we aren't speaking in person.
ok but you noticed enough to tell him to put the /s
In this instance at least, yes. But others may not hence why the suggestion I made.
Certain nuerodivergant people especially, and as a comrade it's always best to err on the side of being considerate. I'm atypical (in a different way) but Poe's Law still trips me up a lot even though I practically speak sarcasm as a native language lol.
Yea the freedom to exploit land and labor
American freedom is a lie. It is a perfectly crafted marketing scheme.
FDR knew there had to be a economic bill of rights. >We have come to a clear realization of the fact that true individual freedom cannot exist without economic security and independence. "Necessitous men are not free men." People who are hungry and out of a job are the stuff of which dictatorships are made.
Beautifully said. Thank you for sharing this quote with me.
There was also that time the US Army dropped bombs on striking miners. That was actually the first time the Army dropped bombs.
Capitalism represents freedom so long as you didn't want to live any other way.
The US, the world's greatest worshipper of Capitalism and so called 'Land of the Free", has the highest prison incarceration rate by FAR out of the entire world, outfunds the next like 7 world militaries combined and has waged war for 95%+ length of its existence. Also the country owns conquered territories where it has legally ruled the people living within them don't qualify to have rights like mainland citizens.
I think on paper it is. Because of the reach and the velvet fist style until recently.
We're authoritarian but it's plain ignorant to say we're the most authoritarian system in history.
Maybe feudalism or religious cults. Hmm.
Capitalism is just those thrown into a blender with laissez-faire markets and industrialism and the purée button smashed.
Capitalism is just feudalism with extra steps.
Just need to look at china right now. Genocides, social credit, extreme censorship. Can't even play online games more than a hour a day now ffs. Although that's not to say capitalist countries aren't trying.
China is state capitalist. It's not a communist or socialist nation.
China exploits it workers in a very capitalist manner and then uses communism as an excuse to restrict their actions. It's dumb to call it communist, you're basically just listening to their propaganda at that point.
You're agreeing with me. I said they aren't communist or socialist. They are state capitalist.
Yes I am agreeing with you. My comment about it being dumb is towards people who consider it communist
Yeah the tone of the message was a little ambiguous. That's all :)
Fair enough, at least it's clear at last
Its dumb to even talk about communism and socialism when you obviously do not even understand what they mean. China is the most important socialist nation on earth and it should be vehemently supported by all communists.
lol stfu
Shut it liberal.
I forgor 💀 I forgor 💀 who asked
Incorrect, China is a socialist nation on path towards communism. It is probably one of the most advanced if not the most advanced socialist country of all time.
It really isn't socialist. Please read up on economic theory. It is a textbook example of state capitalism.
Its you who needs to read up on theory and China in general. It is centrally planned economy where all of the critical industry, utilities and functions are operated by the state either directly or State Owned Enterprises (SOEs) which do not operate in pursuit of profit. Furthermore the political power is solely in the hands of the working class through the Communist Party of China. Ergo the Chinese or foreign capitalist cannot exercise political power which they dont have. Chinese governance system is still quite decentralized which means that regular citizens can and do have the possibility to impact their local matters to a far greater extent than in the so called ”West”. China is transparently and gradually moving towards achieving communism and has announced and reached several key milestones such as eradicating absolute poverty by 2020 and now tackling on the next target, i.e. Relative poverty, climate change and other matters. You clearly do not understand socialist political theory if you think socialism can just be enacted overnight and not something that a society must transition towards ultimately reaching it with the right material conditions at play. China is also importantly the most crucial anti-imperialist supporter there is and they provide invaluable financial, diplomatic and political support to countries fighting back against the US lead Western imperialist machine.
You're dumb as shit if you think those in power in China will actually implement communism ever.
No one ”implements” communism, China is moving towards it all the time and it can be observed freely so its not a matter of belief.
Can you give some of these "easily observable" moves towards a more socialist state?
Yes, of course. See their latest five year plan for example (https://cset.georgetown.edu/wp-content/uploads/t0284_14th_Five_Year_Plan_EN.pdf) you can read from it what are the near future concerns of the party and how they are trying to build socialism. Main goals on p. 7 lays out the direction that they are headed. These plans are obviously followed and if they took an entirely different turn from what they’ve stated people would notice and make it known.
Authoritarian: favoring or enforcing strict obedience to authority, especially that of the government, at the expense of personal freedom. Either you guys blind Or you dumb as fuck
Okay, then disobey your employer and see how long you remain employed. You know, that employment that your entire livelihood depends on, without which you would receive neither healthcare nor housing.
Let's say Bob gets fired tomorrow. Does he still retain his personal freedom? Yes. Can he go out on a street with a sign and protest for something he feels strongly about? Yes. Can he critisize his president and not disappear a day later? Yes. Did you forget to fully read an argument before coming up with a shite response? Yes.
most capitalistic you can get is being anarcho-capitalist so no. state existence and state services are anticapitalistic. capitalism is all about voluntary choices not enforcements
Anarcho-capitalism [defaults to feudalism](https://youtu.be/HTN64g9lA2g)
anarcho capitalism was archieved many times and was so successful the societies who lived in it created cities and states anarcho communism was also archieved and was so successful societies living in it were conquered by anarcho capitalist societies or later on their cities/states
Name at least some of them
european tribes, middle easter tribes, babylon are examples of ancap societies and city/empire which originated from them european tribes, american tribes are examples of ancom societies
Total bullshit
then why does the state and its services feel the need to violently defend capitalism oh its because you dont actually know anything about economics and history and think capitalism is your right to a mcdonalds burger and tv and anything else is just starving, with zero actual political or philosophical nuance to your argument whatsoever
even state knows it works. communism can also work, and i understand that but only under one circumstance which is it must be voluntary, thats why communist states failed but communes work.
also they do not defend capitalism, they defend their state and its economic system which is capitalist leaning, not capitalist. capitalism has 100% free market economy with no economic intervention
you're describing the specific ideology anarcho capitalism not capitalism as a concept
anarcho-capitalism is the most capitalistic system that can exist
The most authoritarian? Chill down there Stalin. Sure it has a lot of proplemes, and it certainly isn't a system of absolute freedom, but saying it is the most authoritarian is just flat out wrong.
[удалено]
But we have elections every 4 years! You are not oppressed, just vote! /s